Nice video…but to be a “fair fight” I think you should have used a higher quality B8 cymbal such as a Paiste Giant Beat or 2002 instead of an entry level one.
I love how people bring up paiste 2002 but the starter pack is $1200 lmao like for that money you can get handmade high quality Turkish b20 cymbal pack so why would anyone even buy those?
B8 cymbals like Zildjian ZBTs, Sabian B8s, Meinl HCS, all sound and feel clunky. You can make it work with a hi-hat, ride, or even an effect cymbal. But a ZBT/HCS/B8 Crash sounds like garbage. The 16" Meinl HCS is one of the worst name brand crash cymbal I have ever heard (excluding cymbals made my companies like Pearl to send with their starter drumsets). But even then, I think a Pearl CX-whatever sounds better than a 16" HCS.
You should hear black label Paiste 2002's. I have them, both standards and mediums sets. They sustain forever. A beautiful glassy shimmery tone that is not too bright, really.
Because so many kids grew up playing clangy B8 entry level cymbals they became biased against the high end B8 cymbals Paiste has made for decades. I suggest everyone keep an open mind about B8, B12, and especially B15 (Paiste Signature Traditionals etc.) They may not be your cup of tea, but there are some beautiful sounding cymbals out there that aren't B20. @@SeanLaMontagne
One thing you don't want in cymbals is zinc. It is the reason brass cymbals sound like crap; 30+% is zinc. If you want your cymbals to sound like cheap drawer knobs, go ahead. Also, one needs to be careful about the "other" bronze alloys besides B20. All of these alloy formulations, such as B8 or B12, are actually company trade secrets and the only element they're admitting to is the percentage of tin in the alloy. The remaining percentage isn't going to necessarily be all copper (e.g., there is likely zinc or else mixed in). Legend even says that the original B20 cymbal bronze had a trace amount of silver in it, due to copper ore being in close proximity to silver deposits...as well as arsenic. The other critical thing is that high quality cymbals come individually cast blanks, not from wrought sheet copper (e.g., blanks punched from sheet metal). Using stamped sheet bronze is a much cheaper to make cymbals, since it will require less additional forming to get to the end product; some very cheap cymbals have the tonal grooves stamped on (not hammered and lathed). Cymbals from cast blanks require much work to get them to their final form--hot rolling and annealing/tempering, hammering, lathing, more hammering...all labor intensive processes, but these impart the "soul" and uniqueness to each of these cymbals--something lacking from the cheaply made ones. Some things just don't really benefit from automation; skipping or changing whole processes results in inferior products, one only needs to hear the results to know.
Thank you for this video; it helped me figure out what type of alloy I want to have for my next set of cymbals
Great videos and education! Thank you!
Wow what a helpful video!
Nice video…but to be a “fair fight” I think you should have used a higher quality B8 cymbal such as a Paiste Giant Beat or 2002 instead of an entry level one.
I love how people bring up paiste 2002 but the starter pack is $1200 lmao like for that money you can get handmade high quality Turkish b20 cymbal pack so why would anyone even buy those?
Go off yall. 🧐
Thanks! 👍
Me as a brass cymbal user 👁👄👁
Can you go B25? B30? Is that a thing?
Zultan has the CS line of cymbals made of B25 bronze, quite a full and rich sound.
Murat Diril uses B27
Too much tin, and bronze becomes fragile - brittle.
b20 seems to ring and carry more and b8 sound muted.
B8 cymbals like Zildjian ZBTs, Sabian B8s, Meinl HCS, all sound and feel clunky. You can make it work with a hi-hat, ride, or even an effect cymbal. But a ZBT/HCS/B8 Crash sounds like garbage. The 16" Meinl HCS is one of the worst name brand crash cymbal I have ever heard (excluding cymbals made my companies like Pearl to send with their starter drumsets). But even then, I think a Pearl CX-whatever sounds better than a 16" HCS.
Meinl HCS is brass not b8
You should hear black label Paiste 2002's. I have them, both standards and mediums sets. They sustain forever. A beautiful glassy shimmery tone that is not too bright, really.
@@jekcons6182"HCSB" (HCS Bronze) or the discontinued MCS are B8 Bronze tho, and and much better beginner cymbals than standard HCS Brass.
Because so many kids grew up playing clangy B8 entry level cymbals they became biased against the high end B8 cymbals Paiste has made for decades. I suggest everyone keep an open mind about B8, B12, and especially B15 (Paiste Signature Traditionals etc.) They may not be your cup of tea, but there are some beautiful sounding cymbals out there that aren't B20. @@SeanLaMontagne
One thing you don't want in cymbals is zinc. It is the reason brass cymbals sound like crap; 30+% is zinc. If you want your cymbals to sound like cheap drawer knobs, go ahead. Also, one needs to be careful about the "other" bronze alloys besides B20. All of these alloy formulations, such as B8 or B12, are actually company trade secrets and the only element they're admitting to is the percentage of tin in the alloy. The remaining percentage isn't going to necessarily be all copper (e.g., there is likely zinc or else mixed in). Legend even says that the original B20 cymbal bronze had a trace amount of silver in it, due to copper ore being in close proximity to silver deposits...as well as arsenic.
The other critical thing is that high quality cymbals come individually cast blanks, not from wrought sheet copper (e.g., blanks punched from sheet metal). Using stamped sheet bronze is a much cheaper to make cymbals, since it will require less additional forming to get to the end product; some very cheap cymbals have the tonal grooves stamped on (not hammered and lathed). Cymbals from cast blanks require much work to get them to their final form--hot rolling and annealing/tempering, hammering, lathing, more hammering...all labor intensive processes, but these impart the "soul" and uniqueness to each of these cymbals--something lacking from the cheaply made ones.
Some things just don't really benefit from automation; skipping or changing whole processes results in inferior products, one only needs to hear the results to know.