Can I Fire Weld Using My Mini Charcoal Forge? (knife project)
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- Опубліковано 21 лют 2023
- I try my very small, hand cranked blower, charcoal forge to fire weld.
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Thanks so much. Glen - Навчання та стиль
Thanks!
Hi and big thanks for your generosity. I'll give you the usual shout-out in an upcoming blacksmithing video, likely two later. 😬
My neighbours think I'm having a BBQ when I use my charcoal forge and they wonder why they're not invited. They don't seem to relate all the hammering and the forge to me trying to be a blacksmith. Love your work 👍🍺🇦🇺
I use coke so my neighbours dont think of food, them think of steam trains!😂🤣🇦🇺👍
Ha! Very interesting and I'm not surprised at all. Thanks for sharing.
Another comment that I got a real laugh out of. Good stuff...
Aussie?
It's a process of learning, and sometimes the failures are gifts. Good Job Glen.
Very well said. Thanks for your support Scott.
The best Blacksmithing Videos ever, if i may add, thank you Chaps ( 76 year old retired Architect/ Eng., fumbling around with " Knifemaking" since 1991 as a Hobby ) ised to sit and watch the Blacsmiths as a Kid, thumping out Shovels, Crowbars & Picks for the old Mining Industry 1950's got bitten by it eversince..! Landed up doing 6 years Cold Rolled Steel Strip for the Pressings Industies..!! Hope to do some " Damascus" ( Forge Weded) Steel soon..!!
tongs maker makes a knife by first making tongs lol. loved seeing that little forge at work. thanks for the vid!
Hi Matt, it should read: tong maker "tries" to make a knife... I like this mini forge but I need to make adjustments to it to make it more useable. More to follow... Thanks.
Hi Glen, Your right, if you can burn the end off, its hot enough to forge weld. My forge welding is iffy at best, needing more practice.👍
Nice recovery, thanks for showing all.
Hi Robert, I'm doing more fire welding and in my next video, make a bit of a breakthrough. This mini forge needs to be altered to better suit stuff like this. Thanks for all.
As a charcoal user my self, You need to put the piece across the fire not down into the fire, This will help keep oxygen down thus reduce the oxidation of the forge weld surfaces.
Yes, I realize this but this mini forge limits how I can lay a piece in the fire. I will make adjustments to this mini forge and turn it form essentially just a fire pot to a decent forge. Stay tuned... Thanks.
That was awesome! My heart sank when that first bit of 1095 got burnt but that knife you ended up with is sweet!
I'm dabbling more into fire welding and so will make the needed changes. I try a curious idea of mine in my next video so stay tuned. Thanks.
yes you can fireweld in a charcoal Forge just have to be careful that's all stay safe
I know charcoal has been used for ages for forging, including fire welding. Just wasn't sure about this mini forge, which is basically just a small fire pot, being capable of reaching temp. high enough and if it could hold up to the extreme heat. Your'e spot on about needing to be extra careful. This project has made me want to design and make my own, hopefully better, charcoal forge. I'm going to get started on that soon so let's see. Thanks again for your donation, your input ,and for always being active on my channel.
Just an idea Glen and dont yell at me if it fails! Bring the two pieces up to welding temp in the same fire at the same time then put them together and back to the fire to bring back to welding heat! Thats what I thought you were going to do when I saw you hammering them together. Maybe work, maybe not, only one way to find out!👍🇦🇺
Ps, try some flat bar in the tong part of the handle if you are worried about burning the cheeks!
Your idea is not too far off but that sort of weld is more involved. Bringing separate pieces together at welding temp. is tricky and also not something I likely will not try in my seated position. Anyway, I plan to do more with fire welding so let's see... Thanks Paul.
Usually welding is done to stop any oxidation between the two metals. It is not done to help the weld at all in fact it is ground off after forge welding because going any further durning the forging process the soft metal could intermix with the high carbon steel.
My first thought is the electrical welds hold everything in place making subsequent forge welding more convenient. I never thought about those welds preventing oxidation as you mention. I will try a different sort of idea for fire welding next video. Thanks.
I like the "Double San Mai" technique.
I think this is more of a "double bonehead" technique for a knife but I do appreciate your support. Thanks.
I am also a blacksmith son from india, my late grand father Iron works during the British era
Hi and thanks for watching.
@@gstongs I am your big fan great work
Thanks for sure.
How cool Glen build what you need🤙👊👋
You could call this a "custom" knife but it's not one that I would brag about and that's for sure! More to follow... Thanks.
Its always fun to see what you inventorize Glen. good video!
I most certainly "inventorize" in my next video - try a funky idea I have to fire welding small pieces. Thanks for sure.
Always something new Glen! I too enjoyed the video!👍
Hey robert, I've got a maybe better idea for my next video. And I need to alter this mini forge to better suit my work. Stay tuned....
Very nice recovery, sir. Very much appreciated and enjoyed this video.
Thanks again for the very big donation. I've got more ideas on this front so stay tuned. I appreciate the support for sure.
Nice one Glen, great ideas
I'll continue with this (fire welding) in various directions. Thanks.
Looked great for a salvage project!
Next time ya go for a forge-weld, just hit the contact surfaces with a flap disk before throwing the piece into the fire. This will clean off any forge scale that's built up.
Your idea to clean the pieces first is solid. Let's see what's next... Thanks.
I've forged welded in hardwood charcoal as well as coal, but as you experienced it's hard to regulate the heat so as not to burn your steel. I will be building a ribbon burner gas forge so I can get my billets hot enough without burning the steel. I've found that once part of the steel burns off the rest of it is usually so low in carbon it's not worth continuing.
Hi Bryson, You make good points. I will weld in my small gas forge next video and in a way that might help others, I think... Thanks.
Interesting video. I think you've shown many times that you don't need a big coal forge to do some blacksmithing. Wish I could have had a small forge like that when I started, it's a lot better than what I tried. I would fry a burger on it before it went out!! Thanks
This mini forge is very limited and I think some simple adjustments might make a big difference. When I first started, I could forge for 5 minutes before my forge went out / my wife's hair dryer (blower) gave in. Thanks for sharing.
Love the Burger idea..!! I'll second that..!! Good camo' in restricted environments!! Lol..!!
Thank you. I’ve been making hardwood charcoal hoping to have a fire to work metal with. Seeing this encourages me.
That's a neat little knife. Too bad the rest of the 1095 got burned off, but oh well. Often times, the MIG/TIG welding done on knife billets is done for 2 reasons. 1: hold the different pieces of steel together long enough for a forge weld to take place and/or 2: Reduce or prevent oxygen from entering between the layers of the billet. Many times, the welds are ground out after the forge weld, but before the billet is drawn out. This is because done to get rid of the additional mild steel that was added for the weld.
Hi Rob, Thanks for the detailed comment. I do understand the reasons why folks electrically weld prior to fire welding as it just makes the process much easier / more predictable. I've got some other ideas I will try. Thanks for sharing and for supporting the channel.
@@gstongs Hi Glen, you seem to be one that does research, so I'm not surprised you knew about those tricks. I partially commented to inform you if you hadn't known, but also to inform others in the comments if they didn't know. I like to share knowledge. Thanks for the great content and I appreciate your outside of the box thinking.
Where can a person find an anvil like that? I like that size.
The electric weld bead is always ground off after the forge weld. You don't want to leave that stuff on. The weld bead is always just an easy quick way to keep your stock together until the forge weld is done. Then it goes bye bye.
It would make a good box cutter too
Yeah, box cutter could also work. Thanks James.
I use charcoal for most of my forging Glen when you bring the part up to heat just back down on the air a little to reduce the oxygen which make the flames less visible. backing off the blower a bit does the same as making dragons breath on the gas forge. You can get the heat alright just a bit less air and youre good to go.
Also piling up your charcoal a bit higher would heat the middle of your steel no trouble at all.
Thanks for sharing
Hi, the main thing with this mini forge is it basically is just a glorified fire pot and doesn't allow me to place pieces ideally or pile on a lot of charcoal. I will make some adjustments to it and let's see... I enjoy using charcoal and I appreciate the good advice. Thanks.
You are the best number maker thank you from Iraq 🇮🇶
I appreciate your kind comment. Good luck in all. Thanks.
Top job Mate !!!
I'm doing a little wood carving and built a few carving knives, and one is 1095, which is a fine steel, but I have more to advised to go with 01 steel for carving knives and chisels .Believe thinning the blade to 2MM should make it thin and less resistant with wood carving.
Nice work your method of holding the 2 pieces together nicely done Sir
I'm partial to used jackhammer bits. Usually S7 or S5 shock steel. Greatest combination of toughness, hardness, and wear resistance. Oil quenching metal. Needs hardening, normalizing, and tempering. Carpenter Steel sells a great technical book on all tool steel they produce. A1, A6, D grades (air or oil), H13 etc., L2 or L6 saw stock, M's, Nickle grades, O1 through O6, Ph (precipitation hardening), a few S grades, some tungsten alloys, 52100 chrome vanadium, W1 and W2, as well as 1045 to 1095 and dozens of the industry's finest quality powder metals. Sounds like I work there but no, alas, just that I have used their products for over 25 years in every machine shop and tool & die toolroom that I have been employed at! Oh yes, Glen. I'm back. Got very sick late last year and forgot all my accounts. Had one more than a trifecta. Cancer, COVID-19 variant 2, pneumonia, and my third TIA stroke. Do you still feed the birds on that upper deck? And those scary scooter rides‽ Wish I could find a way to get all my subscription list back. Sorry to carry on like that, Mr. Jude. I know you aren't Glen. I just was having a moment. Have been a subscriber sine he was still stateside. I am still amazed at how he can accomplish so much with what he has. Would love to work with him if I can get out of this O2 mask.
Hey, Glen! Nice work, brother! Glad I remember your channel. I did a reply to John Jude a few moments ago and gave you accolades. Miss the adventure of Glen at market!
People use welders to tack their work together so they don't have to worry about it slipping about when they go to hammer on it to set the forge weld. Borax is necessary if you are going to be out of the forge for a long enough period of time for the steel to oxidize when the steel cools down. I've had several successful forge welds with no borax but your working time is very short because you don't want your steel losing very much heat otherwise when it cools down to a certain threshold the oxides start to develop. Keep up the good work always enjoy seeing you work.
Your comment about the flux (borax) is spot on. I will try a funky idea to avoid using flux in my next video so stay tuned... Thanks.
4:46
More scooter gas money. TY for the videos. Best to you. Ron
Hi Ron, Thanks for your very generous super thanks donation. Even with high gas prices $10 in my scooter and I can seemingly ride from Earth to the Moon! My point is it goes a long way so thanks for being a heavy hitter on my channel. By the way, this video has sparked me to make my own, maybe better, small charcoal forge. Let's see... 😬
I have had good success welding slightly different carbon steels using TIG fusion (i.e. no rod) After a bit of practice, you can fuse long seams, spot weld or even melt copper/bronze into steel for some interesting effects.
I’m gonna have to get myself one of them mini eBay forges
I have tack welded when I have have pieces that don't want to stay in place. I guess I could use wire but the welder is handy and dosen't effect the finish product in my opinion.
For sure these days most folks are first electrically welding stuff and there's nothing wrong with that. I have some other ways to go about this so let's see. Thanks.
You need more depth. Your piece was in the high-oxygen level whereas you need to have the blade in a neutral environment. Build a hearth above and use the forge as a fire pot. A wooden frame and clay bottom is quite traditional. Best wishes.
Yeah Ken, I will make adjustments to this forge. As is, it's just a glorified fire pot and very limiting in regard to how I can place my workpieces. Thanks.
"Arc welding is adhesion. forge welding is cohesion."
Going to remember that
J'ai fait la même erreur la première fois, mon acier a éclaté en morceaux !
It happens to us all at one time or another. Thanks for sharing.
I assume it's almost the same principal as in " Cold Rolling" Steel to " Full Hard ( "Max ") then re-annealing it to continue work hardening..? Just a thought..! As the grain structure changes and comes together in finer vorm during work hardening until it resches full hard at its limit, then needs to be annealed back to " soft " to continue workhardening..!!
👌😌👍
Thanks. 😬
Good bladesmiths who electically weld steels will do so either using TIG, which is more akin to forge welding, or will grind out or cut off any welds they introduce electrically. Otherwise, there is a lot of risks involved, not to mention ugly inclusions, in not doing so. I'm not bladesmith, but I do watch a few top notch ones as their artistry (and patience) is quite something to behold.
Yes, I know electrically welding first can make subsequent forge welding much easier / convenient. But it also involves a of work post forge welding, as you mention. I have a maybe strange idea for fire welding that I'll explore next video. Thanks.
Where can I get that flat faced anvil your using? Who makes it and what is the actual name!!
how long does each heat take?
Recently I tried forging with charcoal briquettes. I couldn't get the steel hot enough to even forge, let alone forge weld. I've been told that charcoal briquettes are not good in this application and to try "lump charcoal". So, I guess I'll try that, LOL. How fast did your charcoal burn up? You really obtained great heat, plenty for forge welding.
briquettes are small pieces of charcoal that are glued together,often with corn starch, and the size of the grains limits the amount of air you can get into the fire without blowing it all over your workspace. The glue slows down the burn so the briquettes last longer....basically making them rubbish for forging as you found out
Hey Jeff, Yeah, I think the binders in briquettes would spoil any weld attempts. Lump is what I'm using - I just have to size the pieces to about 5/8" or 3/4" to make is better for forging. The charcoal goes pretty quickly - maybe twice as fast a coal. I have a crazy idea for my next video so let's see... Thanks and I hope all is well with you.
I cut slots in mine on each side . Nearly 3/4” wide and 3/4 the way down the pot . Then I have two inserts I keep in that I made to get the forge up to temp. When it to temp I can remove those and put a whole bar through. . I stack charcoal and add clay tiles to the top that keep the heat concentrated in the forge. Welds great and I can work on large pieces ….
However, these gaps will coat your arms in burning soot and micro coals - Toughens your skin right up .
This being said , I bought this thing to see if I like forging with coal… it definitely has its place , however… for 98% of everything I want to work on . Gas is the way to go !
Is your gas forge not hot enough to weld? I haven't tried mine but I suspect it's not quite enough
My gas forge can reach welding temp. (on smaller workpieces) but it can be pain since the extreme temp. and flux ruin the lining. But I forge weld in my gas forge in my next video and show a way that I think could be helpful to some. Thanks.
Just s thought..try some Beach Sand as an extra linning if your Pot has the space to do so..!!
from my experience. u put the piece too deep in the firepit. it was too close to the air intake and so it burned. i burned some metal when i had a too shallow firepit.
For sure I had it deep but this mini forge doesn't allow me much leeway. I will make some adjustments to this mini charcoal forge to make it better suited for various work. Thanks for watching and commenting.
@@gstongs u could maybe add some sheet metal on top or something. always enjoy watching some forge welding. keep it up, cheers
Yipp a Hood will certainly work..i'll be building my Forge out of Old Truck Rim on legs, with a modified 45 Gal drum as Hood & cover during non use with removable Chimney so as to be non conspicious Barbecue on my limited Patio Space...!! Lets see how it works..!!
PS ! Fire Extiguisher always handy..!!
Glen Is it better to use this kind of charcoal or coal? smellwise, I ask this because I have a boatload of Karens in my neighborhood...
Hi John, in my opinion charcoal would be better if you need to keep the smell down. Coal burns with a strong sulfur smell whereas charcoal might seem like a bbq to others' noses. But if you can get forge coke (refined coal) that may be best but it's not easy to get and not easy to get started. Thanks for watching.
Is this the mini forge from amazon?
Hi, I got this one from Etsy - probably the same. Thanks for watching.
How much does one of your square anvil cost in u.s. currency
Currently I have no idea how much it would cost. I had this small block style anvil made many years ago. Thanks for watching.
это нож для обрезания ???.
Yes, as small as it is, this knife does still cut. Thanks for watching.
Your metal was in the wrong layer of the fire. It burnt the tool steel because it was in the carburizing layer not the neutral layer. Still a good test and project.
Good try Glen. I reckon you had the job too deep in the fire and too close to the air blast and it got oxidised and burnt.
yea i agree, i think all the knifemakers who arc weld together their billet before forge welding are kinda doing it wrong.
Flux isn't needed as long as the material is clean using a coal forge. I'm actually surprised you got that to forge weld at all with all the forge scale on the joints
Yeah, after reviewing my video I'm also surprised that I got a decent forge weld result. I will make some adjustments so more to follow. Thanks.
I think you just held it too close to the tuyere.
Yes, without a doubt I had it too deep but the limitations of this mini forge don't allow me much leeway. I can't pile charcoal higher unless I alter this forge, something I will do. Thanks.
Простите меня, язык может ... не верно понял.. Но зачем так сложно! Если это не СПЕЦИАЛЬНЫЙ инструмент. Без обид, мастер.