What if you're Amish and gay?
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- Опубліковано 30 вер 2024
- How do the Amish view homosexuality?
What happens to gay people in Amish society?
Is there such a thing as "gay Amish"?
Check out the Amish America Patreon for Amish interviews & exclusive videos: / amishamerica
My name is Erik Wesner and I'm not Amish. Back in 2004, I met the Amish while selling books. Since then, I've visited 5,000+ Amish homes & dozens of Amish communities. My book on Amish business, Success Made Simple: An Inside Look at Why Amish Businesses Thrive, was published in 2010. I run the Amish America website: amishamerica.com/
Sources:
The Amish by Donald B. Kraybill, Karen M. Johnson-Weiner, and Steven M. Nolt www.press.jhu....
Serving the Amish: A Cultural Guide for Professionals by James A. Cates
www.press.jhu....
Serpent in the Garden: Amish Sexuality in a Changing World by James A. Cates www.press.jhu....
Image credits: Jim Halverson, Don Burke (www.flickr.com..., Dorothy Robson/Westby Times. Selected video: videvo.net
More:
amishamerica.c...
About 20 years ago I spend an afternoon talking with an Amish woman in Lancaster PA. We were the same age (early 30s) and we were discussing how different our lives were from each other. I was a single lesbian living in Philadelphia, while she was married and had two sons. She was not judgmental at all about my gayness. I think we just found each others lives, and our differences, fascinating. We were very open with each other, and it was a lovely conversation.
We are not each other's judge only Jesus is our judge. He tells us how we should live, since I'm a Jesus follower it's my delight to follow the Bible.
@@itravisoni How do we know what's right from wrong then?
@@jintanesss1417 You ask Jesus about any question You have. I've had many problems and situations like You have and if I have something on my mind that I'm not sure about I ask Him. I also go and look up a chapter in my Bible.
@@itravisonithe bible was not written by Jesus... it was written by men.... Paul never even met Jesus in life. Anyone could have Jesus appear in a dream....most ideas of what defines sin comes from people wanting to control other people.
@@orpheus1180 Yes You are correct. It was written by Men through the inspiration if the Holy Spirit though Jesus is the only way to the Father.
It is heartbreaking how sexual orientation can causeparents to abandon their children
It’s not the sexual orientation that causes them to. It’s their religion of choice that causes them to.
It's usually because of superstitions.
And they learned it from the religious. Don't have to follow a religion to believe in God or believe some of the other things they do.
@@HisCoconutGun it’s called context. The question specifically asked about being Amish and gay. Amish people follow a strict religious principle that has no tolerance for homosexuality. Your sexuality isn’t a choice. Your religion is.
@@garlictyme2472 Agreed. Since homosexuality was removed from the Diagnostic Statistical Manual, there has been no secular basis for opposing it. People can have personal prejudices that aren't directly influenced by religious belief but that is the real origin of their prejudice.
Wow, I didn't see this one coming.😊 This topic never crossed my mind. You discussed it very diplomatically. Thanks for enlightening me yet again.
My grandparents were old order Amish. I was raised in the Mennonite church. I am a gay man with my same sex partner who I am with 28 years now. My family has not had contact with me in years. My grandfather treated me as invisible and dead for years before his death. He was a pretty hateful man as I see it. I have stopped trying to get anyone to accept or love me from my previous community. I am who I am and they are who they are. I just accept it as it is. It has been sad and lonely to not have any family ties. However; I am a free man and I have a wonderful life. The “world” is a better place then they would ever acknowledge or ever know. “Religion poisons just about everything,” as the late Christopher Hitchens once said. Thank you Erik for your telling of our story.
I am so sorry
I'm sorry you had to experience that. Religious people can be a pain. They forget about the teachings of Christ. Love, forgiveness and not be judgemental
@@leilanigreenwood5064 that is kind of you to say. Thank you! Christian’s also forget that the Christ figure is the one who first introduces the idea of hell and humans being burned in a lake of fire forever if you do not “love” him. I am a little more kind and benevolent to people than the Jesus of the Bible. I would never hurt or threaten anyone if they simply did not love me. Heck, I have had that happen many times in my life and I have still been kind to these who do not find me their cup of tea. It is funny how Jesus seems so much more “mean” than most people I meet on the street. What do people see in the Jesus figure as good and kind, when in fact, according to his own words, he is unfair, narcissistic and vengeful? To make such a proposition to anyone, ( love me or burn) is an immoral position to take. I am not so sure I see all the goodness and kindness that others see in their Jesus figure.
I am so sorry I wish I could be your friend. Stay strong my family disowned me too but I'm better for it I don't need them.I am happy.
@@dyinteriors Sometimes I wonder about the teachings myself. I have been knocked by some many Christians before I refuse to denounce, condemn homosexuals.
I was Amish and straight. My niece my sis youngest daughter is gay and my only surviving brother is bi. I don't judge.
People like you genuinely make the world a better place to live in. Thank you.
YOU don't judge. But what about the your religion? Are you no longer with The Amish? Are your niece and brother still associated with the community?
I didn’t know you could be on UA-cam or even have a computer. Am I wrongly informed?
@@renzo6490it’s not a sect
@@Livinglife595
Very well…
You know what? You made a righteous and thoughtful explanation of this "unique" social/religious construct. Can't imagine the pressures an Amish person might be facing with this kind of dilemma.
If you choose to stay self control not too hard if you are a true believer
@@CarterKey6 "it's not that hard to deny who you truly are!" you're sick.
go find an actual issue to worry about because queer people are perfectly fine.
The pressures felt by a gay person in the Amish community are nothing like pressures felt by a gay person in a Muslim country.
@@Kaniela-xq8vl
"Are you sure you want to marry that woman, Mohammad? She's 5'10, has a lady's mustache and a very deep voice."
- "Dont worry Dad, I'll manage..."
@@CarterKey6 what a load of old bunk. You have no idea, but to have a clue, abstain all sexual expression in all it's forms. Ie, no relationship, no holding hands, no close expression in any way to another person. Starve yourself, but express all to a woman instead snd only then, you may gain an insight.
As a gay male watching this, well done providing information without the judgment.
You have to be kidding. As a gay Black Christian, The entire video was a big haphazardness of clustered homophobic judgment, down to "cases of people openly gay leaving Amish/Mennonite identity are rare". Basically implying that there is no escape. Wow smh.
@@taralen1101 You can't be gay and Christian.
@@silent1967 You can. If you want to go there, the only thing is gay marriage and gay sexual relationships are sinful. But it's not un Christian, to identify as gay and be celibate. I also don't believe gay is a sin.
@@taralen1101 If you sin in your heart it is no different than doing it as far as God is concerned. Read your Bible.
@@silent1967
YOU and ONES like you are what is known as 'a hard cases.'
God's Nature was not made by Him to be mocked, which
you and your mystical books and beliefs morphing to faith
in the existence of the INVISIBLE and tangibly UNKNOWABLE
certainly do!
Eventually in one way (or ways) or others, you will suffer
for it. She will kick your ass if challenging Her past some
point by yourself unknowable. (Only She so-does.)
I've no advice for you or your compeers in mystery and
the unknown except KEEP YOUR DISTANCE oh-young-one!
Rejoinder???
If you would quit loving your children because of their sexual orientation, then you never really did love them to begin with!
You can still love someone and hate the sin. That won't keep them out of Hell though.
If I had kids, I would not mind them having same sex relationships as long as they weren't hardcore degenerate freaks that feel the need to shove their sexuality down everyone's throat. I would disown in that case.
@@silent1967Love the sinner, hate the sin! Sins of the flesh do not send one to hell, though. Hell is for people who abuse children and animals!
@@gregingram4996 You're dead wrong on that buddy.
@@silent1967love the sinner, hate the sin? Love the Christians, hate the religion. Got it.
Interesting because Homosexuality is as old as Human History. It's always been with us. Some Humans are born that way, just as it occurs naturally in the Animal Kingdom as well.
Sadly to these types of people, it's all a 'test' from God. A cruel and pointless test I argue, but a test to them all the same if you can resist the temptation he apparently let you be born with.
Reminded of that line from Christopher Hitchen's: Created sick and then order to be made well....
There is this book called Farm Boy, it's not about exactly the same subject as this videos: and I don't know if there is even any Amish account; but I can say there are plenty of people in that book that had similar stories and discussed most of the topics you described here. In many cases you just sublimate, but certainly there are guys that don't care about their "spouses" because they tend to find women that are either understanding or lesbians/bisexuals that don't harass them about their sexuality.
That sounds like a very sad and lonely way to live, hiding behind a facade like that
I appreciate you keeping it very neutral and educative
Billions of prayers to not be gay anymore. Some were mine. Those prayers were not answered. That destroyed what little faith I had, which was entirely gone by age 15.
I have many resources that would help with your knowledge & acceptance; contact me will be glad to share as i have also given copies of all to my PTSD counseling-therapist. Can give you my email or cell number also to chat.
So, live your truth! Hope you are well.
Hope you figure out where you went wrong before you die.
Return to Jesus. In this life we all have "unanswered prayers". But God gave is the best gift of all: eternal life.
John 3:7
King James Version
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Romans 3:23
King James Version
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Job 12:7-9
King James Version
7 But ask now the beasts, and they shall teach thee; and the fowls of the air, and they shall tell thee:
8 Or speak to the earth, and it shall teach thee: and the fishes of the sea shall declare unto thee.
9 Who knoweth not in all these that the hand of the Lord hath wrought this?
Romans 10:9-10
King James Version
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
JOHN 3:18
KJ21
“He that believeth in Him is not condemned; but He that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
I am now a gay atheist and I could not be more elated to be done with this superstitious nonsense that almost took my life. Religion poisons just about everything. I am free at last.
You mentioned how gayness is thought of like or worse than other sexual sins. But it's easy for straight people to avoid this sin in the Amish world, just get married. Then you can have sex. But gay people would have to get rid of their entire identity and live a sad life to avoid this sin. It's not right. I personally think that straight people can be incredibly cruel about this, and don't even try to understand. It's so easy to condemn others for something that you yourself would never need to do.
Interesting that same sex activity is so condemned and sinful, being that sex is “ solely for the purposes of procreation “, is it not hypocritical that incest and sexual abuse is so rampant among the Amish, yet kept quiet, swept under the rug, and virtually unpunished? That type of behavior is not meant for the sole purpose of procreation, but, sadly it happens more often that anyone probably knows. Rather, if a perpetrator is caught, usually confessing in front of the congregation absolves him, and he’s free to offend again. More often than not, it is the female who risks punishment or shunning if they come forward, and are yet again placed back into the same situation. And thus the cycle is perpetuated….grandfather to son to grandson, uncle to nephew to cousin, etc. The Amish claim to denounce the ways and beliefs of man, and feel that man-made rules and laws don’t apply to them, yet their rules, or “Ordnum”, are their own, man-made interpretations of God’s word( supposedly). They are not what they seem, and to me, are more of a cult than a sect. Denouncing homosexuality should almost be a non-iss7e, in comparison to the other, rampant sexual sins known and tolerated in and among their communities.
That's a sad point. When sex is seen purely as functional, it ignores sex as bonding intimacy between a couple. And that actually devalues sex to the point where it would make meaningless sex through incest or abuse more likely.
Is masturbation also considered a sin since it is for pleasure and not procreation?
The female mammary glands are made by god solely for the nourishment of newborns.
Is seeing and using them for sexual pleasure considered a sin?
@@renzo6490 Yes.
May I ask, politely and with no sarcasm, what is the source of your information that "incest and sexual abuse is so rampant"?
@@ronhilton9614 It's not rampant, it's in all cultures and societies but it is not rampant.
Great information Erik, you always present things factually without interjecting your own personal feelings or opinions and I like that. I'd say homosexuality is a hot topic for many whether you are Amish or non-Amish, right or wrong I'd say it's a personal thing, and you have to choose how you will handle the opinions of others. Thank you for sharing on a topic that makes so many people angry and or nervous.
I continue to find it sad and disturbing that religion nearly always makes life for people of the lgbt+ community difficult and unhappy. Why is it that "christians" are so often intolerant, narrow minded and judgemental when Christ in fact, preached the exact opposite. It seems to me that an awful lot of people who claim to be christian, never actually moved out of the old testament into the new testament. There is a world of difference between claiming to be christian and actually being one. Saying you are christian is easy, being one requires a change of heart. It would not surprise me if most christians are fans, but not actual followers of Christ.
Ew. These are peoples lives it’s not as much of a debate as you think it is…
If it were a personal thing, we wouldn't have to vote on whether gay people can get married, or whether people have control over their own bodies, especially adults who should be free to seek what care they need or want.
But I do think it's nice to see this video, since the creator of the video is not supporting discrimination towards either community, he is just outlining a culture's normal and expectations.
I appreciate this breakdown, the deeper issues of religious belief ruling over the deeper messages of "love thy neighbor" and being Jesus- like are topics people need to discuss and consider separation of church and state in the USA
I'm gay, believe in God. What I don't understand is why other Christians are so judgmental towards other people? Not just gay people in particular, but anyone that's not exactly like themselves. I've been to churches where the members would squawk and snark at someone wearing jeans on a Sunday morning. I truly do not understand why Christians go so hardcore in judging others when it's clear what the Bible states about judging others. Any who, I believe in one judge and that is God.
This is about what I thought the Amish would feel on this topic. I always enjoy your videos thank you Erik
I think it should be obvious that sexual orientation is not taught, but rather is innate within the makeup of the individual. I say this because, in a society where such abhorrent behaviors are not openly expressed or discussed, there is no way to learn homosexual behaviors or inclinations. If a person's sexual orientation is inborn into their being, then that leads me to believe that it is God created, and not a chosen path in life. Really, who would choose to be shunned by their family, friends and society in general because of their sexual orientation? I think you'd have to be one who enjoys persecution, ridicule and such things to actually choose to be a homosexual. In the same way some people stipulate that being a homosexual is a choice, I ask, did you decide to be a heterosexual? If one is being totally honest, they'd have to answer no, they didn't decide to be either homosexual or heterosexual.
If sex is ONLY to be indulged in for reproduction, and not at all for the intimacy and enjoyment of the coupling, I think the human race would have faded away a long time ago.
It behooves those who are closed minded about this subject, to at the very least, have compassion for those who don't fit into your prescribed world view.
Wrong, homosexuality is a sin, plain and simple.
@@silent1967 It may be a sin in your eyes, but judgement is not yours to dole out. Have you heard that saying, "Judge not lest ye be judged."?
It is more important to be a kind, loving, caring and compassionate person than to be tied to belief systems which cause division, hatred, anger and the like.
Leave the judging to God, just be the best person you know how to be. :)
@@JerryDechant Leviticus 18:22 ~ You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.
Leviticus 20:13 ~ If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.
Jude 1:7 ~ Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.
How much do you need to understand ?
You handled this sensitive subject in a balanced and nonjudgmental manner. Thank you.
Yes, That was so Beautiful! You are quite wise and balanced, sir.
can u define what is a woman? bec u certainly dont understand what fair & balance is, his perspective is on the side of gay people w/o input from Amish people
he only says gay people hv to navigate the Amish community & has never mentioned the difficulties the Amish community has w/entitled gay people who force their promiscuous lifestyle on the Amish community
@@grahepo who pushes their sexuality on others? Most commercials have straight couples and only ones trying to push others to be like them are religious folk. Or straight privileged conservative folk. We just want to exist and the same rights as you.
That's it. You dont want us to have that.thats fine, has nothing to do with anything 9ther than it's different and not you.
why are u thinking its the bare minimum?
# Holy Scripture TELLS US TO "JUDGE RIGHTEOUSLY" # STOP TIP TOEING AROUND SIN.....CALL IT OUT & Call Sinners to REPENTANCE.
This seems very, very similar to the practice and views on homosexuality and sexuality in general in the Orthodox churches.
Not only the Pope, but many many clergy are speaking up after seeing the discoveries of the biblical scholars proving that the scripture on homosexuality has been misinterpreted.
Declaring scripture dealing with homosexuality teaching needs to change.
Here is a Cardinal.
“Homosexuality is not a sin. It corresponds to a Christian attitude when two people, regardless of gender, stand up for each other, in joy and sorrow,” he said. The value of love was also shown in “not making the other person an object, not using him or her or humiliating him or her.”
Cardinal Marx added: “LGBTQ+ people are part of creation and loved by God, and we are called upon to stand against discrimination.” He also said, “Those who threaten homosexuals and anyone else with hell have understood
@@joey9562 The Pope isn't Orthodox. Neither is Cardinal Marx. And there are many, if not most, Catholics who would say that the Pope and Cardinal Marx aren't exactly Catholic. We don't have to do or believe everything the Pope and hierarchy do. We especially do not have to do or believe anything that the Pope and hierarchy do that are contrary to the teaching of God. In the end times, the Pope will be acting at the behest of the Antichrist, even as the Church remains the true Church established by Jesus Christ. We have to be careful not to worship the Pope or take his words as Gospel commandments.
@@joey9562
The pope still considers homosexual relations a sin though and that will never change within the Catholic Church because you can’t change the sacrament of marriage, meaning gays can never marry, meaning they will always be sinning when they have sex.
That's so sad. To have to choose between your identity and your community, to live a lie or give up your home, seems an impossible choice.
Why does anyone need to tell their family who they are having SEX with? They can say they’re friends and live together as friends. Simple. 😊
@@DanielJennessII Keeping that kind of secret in such a small community would be very difficult on a long term basis. In a group so firmly family focused, not getting married and living with your "friend" is going to raise questions.
@@DanielJennessII You’re clueless. With such lack of empathy, I doubt you’ll ever find a spouse. If you do, I expect you to tell everyone you’re just friends.
@@DanielJennessII you do realize being gay is more than just "who you sleep with." I don't understand why that's the immediate first thing that comes to mind when you think of gay people.
@@DanielJennessII sexual orientation, including heterosexuality cannot be boiled down to " who you're having sex with". If that's the way you think, I feel sorry for your husband. if in fact you're able to have a relationship that goes beyond sex
A wise old quote that I live by: "Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind."
# WEAK
#Awesome
Amen @chrisf5053 amen
Warn the person in sexual sin what God's written word and the consequences should they continue. If you truly love them, you'll tell them the truth.. John 14:6
Jesus never taught us to judge and condemn others. He actually condemned those that did. His main commandment above all others was to love one another.
What hypocrites some Christians can be. Taking certain passages and thumping people over the head with them in blind self-righteous indignation, and all the while ignoring/sinning in so many other very stern, direct passages.
"But you, who are you to judge your neighbor?"
Just a few of the very clear passages on judging others.......
Matthew 7:1-5
1 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. 3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye.
Luke 6:37-39
37 “Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.
38 Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."
39 He also told them this parable: “Can the blind lead the blind? Will they not both fall into a pit?
James 4:11-12
11 Brothers and sisters, do not slander one another. Anyone who speaks against a brother or sister or judges them speaks against the law and judges it. When you judge the law, you are not keeping it, but sitting in judgment on it. 12 There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you-who are you to judge your neighbor?
Romans 14:10-13
10 You, then, why do you judge your brother or sister ? Or why do you treat them with contempt? For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat. 11 It is written: “ ‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord, ‘every knee will bow before me; every tongue will acknowledge God.’ ” 12 So then, each of us will give an account of ourselves to God. 13 Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another.
This raises the question: why does this topic cause such a stir within Christianity? One would think that Christians would be far more concerned with practicing compassion, kindness, humility, meekness, and patience (Col 3:12), loving thine enemies (Mark 11:25; Matt 5:44; Luke 6:27), helping the poor (Matt 19:21; Gal 2:10), the orphans and widows (Js 1:27), showing mercy and grace to the world (Matt 9:13; Luke 6:36; John 8:1-11), and living in the Spirit, whose fruit includes love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control (Gal 5:22-23). Isn’t this focus the overarching message of the Bible, particularly the New Testament?
Furthermore, one only needs a friendly reminder from the Apostle Paul as to why we should not point the accusatory finger at others: “All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God” (Rom 3:23)..
@@joey9562 There is also a mis-translated story about Jesus healing a Roman soldier's same-sex partner. Jesus referred to him as the soldier's "beloved" but in translation our bibles today say "manservant".
@@joey9562 Yes but if you do not repent from your sin and try to turn away from it he will tell you "I Never Knew You".
A gay boy has a decision to stay at home or make smart plans to leave his Amish heritage . I realize it's not that simple . It's a painful situation . No one knows the pain a young man's pain of being gay and in most cases he keeps it secret because he's ashamed . Life is not easy for anyone, but for being GAY in 'secret' is awful . IT SHOULD NOT BE THAT WAY . We're all only human beings .
that's a shame that the Amish feels that way because there's a lot of good people who are LGBTQ . I'm a Methodist and we love everybody
And that’s how it should be. ❤
Just wanted to say that I really appreciate the way you handled this loaded topic. Informative, clear, and not just telling either side what they want. A real rarity on the internet. Thanks for what you do!
I appreciate that!
Thanks for this insight. As a gay person myself, I feel lucky to be able to come out without having to give up much despite coming from a fairly conservative culture (relative to American culture anyway). I can't imagine the dilemma an LGBTQ Amish individual must face. It would be hard to choose between how you truly feel and your entire community, not to mention your own religious beliefs. I don't judge any person that decides to stay in the closet. But I do hope they find inner peace.
John 3:7
King James Version
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Romans 3:23
King James Version
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Job 12:7-9
King James Version
7 But ask now the beasts, and they shall teach thee; and the fowls of the air, and they shall tell thee:
8 Or speak to the earth, and it shall teach thee: and the fishes of the sea shall declare unto thee.
9 Who knoweth not in all these that the hand of the Lord hath wrought this?
Romans 10:9-10
King James Version
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
JOHN 3:18
KJ21
“He that believeth in Him is not condemned; but He that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
@@Jesus_paid_it_all who knew that 2023 years after his death, jesus would have payed christ-bots to spam the comments of youtube comment sections. stop shoving your bigoted religion down everyone's throats. thanks!
I suspect that the transgression of homosexuality can’t really be classified as being simply another form of sexual transgression in that LGBT people are often stigmatized simply for exhibiting traits that are considered to indicate a homosexual inclination. The idea that the person is loved but the sin is rejected is an idea often repeated by socially conservative Christians, however it is rarely if ever the case. Rather, people with acknowledged or even suspected homosexual feelings are often marginalized by their communities. This is particularly painful for young people who are suspected of being gay by their communities before these young people even recognize their own feelings. One grows up feeling less-than prior to having done anything which should cause them to be rejected.
This is soo... sad on so many levels....
Considering the fact that incest in Amish communities is a prevalent problem which is largely ignored, I find it hypocritical that they chastise gay people for living their authentic lives with the sexual orientation with which they were born.
Religion is a choice, being homosexual is not.
In fact there are genetic diseases that are MORE common in Amish communities because the blood lines are so close. I would guess unless they go out of the particular community odds are fairly high. There are genetic diseases almost exclusive to Amish communities. Google and you will get pages and pages of medical references--not popular articles. To them being homosexual is a choice. But all the research they don't read says otherwise. Also homosexual is really more than sex, it is who you want to hang with and do things with. Even young kids have a preference re boys vs girls, etc. that's why someone can be gay at 10. There are also people who have left the Amish with huge difficulty--one of the problems is when you do this often times the rest of the group shuns you so you can't keep your family ties. I know something about cults, having left one, though in my case the group doesn't practice shunning. Some families will accept a family member secretly, afaik.
To me, this shows that being gay is a natural acurrance. Even in isolation, away from influence, not even ever hearing about gay people, one can still be gay. It's part of nature
It's a sin none the less.
@@silent1967 Utter nonsense!
@@kingy002 Tell it to Jesus.
@@silent1967 I don't belief in any of that crap.
@@kingy002 That's fine, it's called free will. God loves you so much he will let you choose an eternity in Hell if that is what you desire.
I was wondering, if you grow up Amish, but don't become a member as an adult are you still allowed to visit with your family?
in most cases, yes
@@emmib1388 Thanks for that.
Being Amish is more than a religion. It’s a culture, like being a Jew. If you’re born into an Amish community, you’re Amish.
Imagine if the Amish church considered left-handedness as a sin. The parallels are clear.
But..... the book says.....
@@JacquesMareJohn 3:7
King James Version
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Romans 3:23
King James Version
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Job 12:7-9
King James Version
7 But ask now the beasts, and they shall teach thee; and the fowls of the air, and they shall tell thee:
8 Or speak to the earth, and it shall teach thee: and the fishes of the sea shall declare unto thee.
9 Who knoweth not in all these that the hand of the Lord hath wrought this?
Romans 10:9-10
King James Version
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
JOHN 3:18
KJ21
“He that believeth in Him is not condemned; but He that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
I’m gay and thought you did a tremendous job, I can completely understand why they would choose to marry. It saddens me greatly. But that is what most did just 75 years ago.
I celebrate you for knowing yourself. I was asked several decades ago, by a very dear friend who is gay, how would I feel if my son told me he was homosexual? I told him that my feelings for him would never change. I love my son. But i would feel sad for the challenge he would have with those who didn't approve. Our society is more open and I hope more understanding/accepting than it was in the 1980's. But in my opinion, we still have a long way to go in respecting and appreciating each other's differences. To me, a person is a unique and vital part of the whole. The more diverse the pieces, the more beautiful the quilt.
Why, they will be in heaven and you will not.
@@silent1967 That is your opinion. Not a fact. This is an inconsiderate and cruel response.
Jesus taught Christians that God, not people, makes all the Judgements. And Jesus came to save us from them. Careful, or by your words here, you might be stepping into sin yourself...
@@karenfitzpatrick6256 Truth hurts, Jesus will say he never knew you.
@@silent1967 I do not believe He would, because He does know me. I'm imperfect, but I'm faithful. He loves me. You can't shake my faith with your beliefs.
How utterly cruel, sad and lonely. Please pray for them.
I know of 3 gay Amish. Mervin is married with 3 kids. Isaiah is 19 and struggling if he wants to leave the faith. And Luke left the community 2 years ago and has a husband.
Good. The Amish are right. Sodomy, which the correct term for deviant sexuality which is what sodomy is, is a sin. So the Amish are just abiding by God teaches them in the scriptures.
Right, cause there is no god.
Excellent job of portraying the Amish views of homosexuality without being judgemental. This is a breath of fresh air and much needed in today's combative society. Thank you.
Agreed 👍
That’s because the Amish don’t tend to be combative about their views. If you don’t bring that energy into universe, it doesn’t often come back your way. That’s a lesson the evangelical right can learn from the Amish. Leave folks alone and they’ll leave you alone.
@@bernardwylie9760 Yes, they aren't combative. They just pick off the lone, vulnerable gay targets, one by one.
@@jasonthewatchmansson8873 There are truly far worse homophobes in America who are far more combative, confrontational, connected to political power, and resort to violence. As a gay person, I’m truly not worried about the Amish.
calling it a sin is judgmental, the Amish don't believe in modern tech just tech from the time of the founding, stupid religion is stupid and muddles morality and thinking, you can't even perceive that it is judgmental, a testament to the blindness religion creates in a person. It is nonsense, wake up. The bible has thousands of errors and contradictions and you cannot even see them, again a testament to the blindness such systems create. Nature testifies against you.
I’ve always wondered if we are all sinners, if all sin is equal, and all sin can be forgiven, what makes being LGBT the big bad? After my pastor gave a sermon against gay sin, I asked him after the service when we should stone him, before or after service? He was confused. I politely responded that he had admitted to having sinned, had an extra marital affair, had premarital affair, admitted to lust, admitted to lying, I know he eats shellfish, and here he stood before the congregation wearing clothes made of more than one fabric, all of which are sins worthy of stoning. He became livid, it was a messy scene. I didn’t raise my voice, but after I asked my question he was livid. I’ve never ever been called so many four-letter words let alone by my pastor in the middle of the congregation after a service.
The answer I came up with is a Church is a business, they fail and get sold or absorbed by other congregations all the time. They NEED an enemy, some group(s) they can point at and call them SINNERS and praise their flock for not being like THEM. Creating an enemy of a minority helps them keep the lights on. They selectively chose what scriptures to focus on, while choosing to ignore others. If the Bible says “Whosoever believes in me shall be saved,” that’s what matters. Not saying we shouldn’t sin, just that loving thy brother (fellow man), accepting them and helping minister to them, inviting them into your home and church is what should matter. We are here to bring people to Christ, not drive them away so we v]can pay the light bill.
It never ceases to amaze me that ppl like that will constantly condemn homosexuality between consenting ADULTS but never say one word against pedophilia.
I attended a loving Christian school for 8th and 9th grades. They basically taught that God doesn't like homosexuality but He does love gay ppl as much as He loves anyone else.
They didn't say the tired expression of "Love the sinner, hate the sin".
They simply said to not hate gay ppl and homosexuality is not a reason or excuse to hurt someone.
Religion is not logical nor conclusive. But the reaction is correct, if you want logic, you leave the religion.
Most religions don't have the maturity, to say "if you don't believe what we say, you are a bad person".
If you apply logic, from "Whosoever believes in me shall be saved" follows directly, "who not believes shall not be saved" (goes to hell). Religious people say "we didn't say this". Logical people say "yes you did". Who says 2+2=4 is true, also says 2+2=5 is wrong, without pronouncing it explicitly.
@@Lokian_Mermaid - That sounds wonderful! I took a psych class and one of the things they covered was self hatred, people often dislike things in others that are most true in themselves. They mentioned a study that showed a surprisingly high percentage of “homophobes” admitting in a blind questionnaire that they had experienced either a homosexual experience or feelings in their youth. Every time I hear someone triggered by an LGBT something or other news article, I remember that class. Straight people aren’t bothered by gays, it’s simply something they don’t understand or get but it’s no big deal because it doesn’t affect them. People who have feelings they haven’t dealt with, haven’t understood or repressed… THEY are deeply bothered by gay people because it hits home. Yes, I get amused at the simple things in life. 😊
@@holger_p - True but I’d like to counter a different perspective. Religion isn’t logical, that’s what faith is about. Instead of leaving religion, consider switching to a more open church. Or studying the Bible to understand it better, the Bible is a huge multi-faceted epic book. You need to read more than a single scripture to understand it. It took a Hebrew class for me to realize that the word used/interpreted as abomination in the Leviticus scripture that reads (rough quote) ‘for a man to lie with another man is an abomination in gods eyes,’ may have a different meaning. There were six words for crimes in Hebrew, often combined to show say a serious crime like murdering your neighbor to take his property, to minor crimes like stealing bread for food. The word used and interpreted as abomination was used again in 1 Corinthians 16, 9 (from memory, might be off a bit) that starts off with Paul saying do you not know that murderers, homosexuals, etc. will not enter the kingdom of God. Then Paul continues afterwards saying but such were some of you, but you were washed, sanctified or justified by Jesus’s name. For I can do all things, for I am not mastered by any of them, for it is not profitable for me. The Hebrew word is the same, translated here as “not profitable,” the least of the Hebrew words for crime, such as stealing bread for food. I believe the Bible, but I question the interpretation of the scriptures by man.
@@Erin-Thor It's beyong my imagination to "go shopping" for a religion and pick one you like.
You need to be brought up with this idea by your parents, to join this world in general.
I think for gay people, this doesn't make a difference, its about leaving your parents or your church or not.
Knowing what is right does not always correspond to the emotions involved.
It makes no difference, if you leave to attheism or to another religion.
I don't believe any of these, I just accept it as part of history. In the time before laws and courts (code civil in France 1789) they took the role of guiding people. Before siegmund freud, they also took care of mental health.
Some functions of church are replaced, and in other aspects they are simply unable to modify themselves, and follow the trend of people. Mainly they want to hold them back, if they try to change.
No idea why this showed in my feed, but I was raised in the Mennonite tradition, which is anabaptist, like the Amish and Brethren, so I have some knowledge of the beliefs and practices of anabaptists, and I feel disappointed at the accepting tone of this video. The Amish need to be called out on their misogyny and homophobia, because to accommodate Christian fundamentalism in 21st century America is to perpetuate harm to innocent people. The Amish aren’t “quaint” people with “old-fashioned” ideas, they are Christian fundamentalists who reject key tenants of American society, including the equality of all people and the right for all to live their lives openly, regardless of religion, orientation, gender, or gender identity, and such bigotry must not be tolerated in a tolerant society. Just as we don’t make exception for enslavement because of religious belief, just as we don’t allow live animal sacrifice for religious rituals, we cannot allow the harmful practices of the Amish to persist.
Several years ago, moving across the country, my friends and I traversed across Pennsylvania. I'd only seen Amish folk and their buggies and all in films and t.v., like most people. My friends and I were joking, but respectfully, that you wouldn't see any buggies with flames painted on the sides or gold rims. I felt a little sad stating the obvious, "and you won't see any rainbows on them either."
God never made anyone gay. And the rainbow is God's not for sin.
They see it as a sin. Surprise, surprise!!! Religion the mother of false promises, exaggerated claims and discrimination.
An interesting topic. I had to deal with a similar dilemma as that young Amish guy. I chose to be myself. In retrospect, I am happy that I made that choice. There is just one God-given life that each of us has, and when that time comes, when there is no more running, when one is right then and there with oneself, the last thing I would want to reflect on is "what if". What if I had more courage? What if I lived the life the way I wanted to live? What could have been? Those questions would be hard to swallow.
I just wanted to say that you are awesome, and that I'm really glad that the world gets to know the real you :)
So you're gay then and rejected the miserable life other would make you have. Regardless of what you do, they go to bed at night and don't give you another thought. That is the reality.
I'm not Amish and I daily wonder what my life would have been like had I not yielded to my family's pressure and manipulation and live my life as had been best for me and what I wanted and needed from life rather than what was best for them. I could have had a life and happiness. I didn't. I feel your pain more than words can express. Wishing you happiness and the man of your dreams for the rest of your life!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@@josephr.gainey2079 Where are you in life sir? I know it sounds like life has passed, but could you still do it? A common friend at least? Something for the tough life you had?
@@josephr.gainey2079 you're not dead yet, and you were born to be uniquely yourself and nobody else. Do you want to go to the grave never having been the person you were meant to be? You get one chance. Don't think it's too late. It's never too late. It's work, it's disruptive, but all it takes is you wanting it badly enough, and it'll fall into place. Think about it
This is not something I thought about for the Amish. This video is very thought provoking and interesting that they struggle with. Hard choices to make. TFS 🙏👍
To be disciplined for your feelings is critical. If they are worried about going to hell, to hide who you are for all of your life, that is hell in a nut shell itself! I do understand their standpoint on not wanting to lose their community, etc, but sometimes, most times, an individual needs to way the good versus the bad. Lying is a sin and just because you live a life as a straight male or female but crave the same sex, you’re lying. That’s a sin in its self.
Amen.
But, how many of us would have the strength--especially given the almost total isolation from the outside world many of these groups have. Saying "the Amish" is in reality like saying "the Baptists" or "the Jews" or "the Muslims" in that it implies that the named group is one monolithic group all of whom think alike and act alike. The truth is much more complex than that. Even the Old Order Amish (and that's what most people think of when they hear the word "Amish") are different in practice, if not belief, especially when it comes to the use of technology and interaction with the outside world. The last edition of Amish Society by John A. Hostetter (1993) contains a section on the subdivisions within an Amish settlement in western Pennsylvania (ranked 9th in size among the 60+ settlement areas in the United States). He found over 15 groups, most of which disagreed with each other enough to form separate congregations. Most were not in communion with each other. This settlement numbered only about 4,000 people and didn't include more liberal groups that used automobiles, and who were just as splintered as their traditionalist cousins. Think how divided the larger communities, which can number up to 45,000 people must be!!!! And think how intense the pressure to conform to the ways of your group which usually includes not only your immediate family but their closest kit and kin!!!!!!!!!!
@@josephr.gainey2079 Amish, Muslim, etc ALL face isolation when coming out. But there is a whole community for those that come out and they are accepted, it’s just up to those that are willing to take the first step. Almost ALL religions teach against lying. The person has to chose their own damnation and not all Amish are oblivious more so the Amish have a chance to leave at 16 ( I may be wrong about this age) and experience life outside. They can either A stay away or B go back. There are some Amish that have access to the internet, everyday people outside of the Amish community, etc. Many gay individuals lose family, friends, etc. it’s not just the Amish. They have find/have faith in their selves as do many others regardless of teachings. They are not dumb, they know there’s a whole other world out there.
@@cac2821 If someone is certain of eternity, this life is a very short blip, and the eternal reward for overcoming temporal struggles is well worth the temporary pain. On the other hand, if someone is certain that this life is eternity, and that battling desires of the flesh is the only hell there is, then all kinds of rationales are employed to justify giving in to every craving of the flesh. For example, if I want a donut, but I've already had my fill of daily calories in the form of healthy foods, you might call me a liar for denying myself the fleshly pleasure of the donut. After all, I want the donut, and to deny myself the experience of the donut is to deny the desire I feel. If lying is a sin as you've stated, then according to your moral code, I should eat the donut in order to be honest and truthful. Naturally there are consequences to eating the donut, such as struggles against denying myself pleasures in the future because that rationale will always be there, and struggles with the resulting weight gain that eventually turn me obese, struggles with the metabolic functions and regulatory processes that eventually destroy my pancreas and circulatory system, my heart and even my lungs. But if lying is a greater sin than gluttony, as you've half-stated, then those negative consequences are preferable to committing the sin of lying. That's the logical formula of your argument. It's a good thing we don't get to make choices for others 😊
John 3:7
King James Version
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Romans 3:23
King James Version
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Job 12:7-9
King James Version
7 But ask now the beasts, and they shall teach thee; and the fowls of the air, and they shall tell thee:
8 Or speak to the earth, and it shall teach thee: and the fishes of the sea shall declare unto thee.
9 Who knoweth not in all these that the hand of the Lord hath wrought this?
Romans 10:9-10
King James Version
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
JOHN 3:18
KJ21
“He that believeth in Him is not condemned; but He that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Don't tell me Lemme guess it being a patriarchy community for the farmers of America as well thick in the study of agriculture as wells literal barn raising this 👨❤️👨👨❤️💋👨❌ is sadly frowned upon is to be expelled for being evil ? Hmm
You’re right, it is offensive on many levels. Being homosexual is not aberrant behavior, it’s not limited to humans as there are innumerable examples of homosexual behavior in the animal kingdom. I’ve said this many times before and will state it here once again: religion, regardless of the faith, is a power grab, done for wealth, power, and/or control. In addition, as I understand it, the Amish are Christians, believing in a just, forgiving, and loving god. Now by deduction, would it not be a cruel and unjust god that is wrathful to create a person with a soul to desire and need such "sinful behavior"? I don’t care who you are, what you believe, or what is expected of you: there is a subset of society that will love and accept you regardless of what you fundamentally are, find them and allow your life to be joyous and harmonious with those around you.
Just EXCELLENT !
They just do what alot of Men do..Sleep with alot of men behind their wives backs..More do then u can imagine..If I wrote a book about the amount of Military and Married men I've been with it would suprise some. Men feel they are cornered into a standard..
Great videography. Grew up Southern Baptist with 6 brothers. Born 1940, so u take from there and try to imagine the atrocities I witnessed. I have subscribed and thank u. Ever want to hear about growing up from 1940 on , say hello. Dave here
As we see here, many choose to stay in the closet and marry. They may claim to be happy in marriage, but I have to wonder how fulfilling the relationship ends up being for both individuals in the marriage. I'm glad that when I was in the closet and hoping to change by dating women, and considering marriage, I finally came to the realization that marriage would be a disaster, that at a point I'd eventually come out, and realized the damage and unhappiness it would potentially cause a wife and any children. At that point, I stopped trying to change my sexuality and worked on accepting myself as I am.
I'm glad you accepted who you are. I pray you find love and happiness
That's so nice to hear. I'm a young gay and from a liberal country and culture, so having to be closeted was a non-issue. I'm sorry for the older generations who were not afforded that luxury and we have to realise this was not long ago and much change still needs to happen...
They know that Hell is for eternity, that is why they are trying to stay away from sodomy.
@@silent1967 So is murder, lying, thief, fornication all will see the 🔥 of hell, these all are an abomination in the eyes of God. So it says in Revelations.
@@leilanigreenwood5064 True, Hell is a big place.
There are many gamish guys out there
Ah, but what is not mentioned is the rumspringa at 16, more boys than girls experience temporary greater freedom. The Righteous certainty to submit to the male Elders/Priests/Preachers no matter what, woman/children remain chattel like in the 'Bible tells me so'. Womens thoughts.....Psalms 88....B.I.T.E. anyone?
When I was in DC I had a wonderful and interesting former Amish boy for a housemate in a house of 3. He had many stories such as the only phone on the farm was in the cow barn to be used only for the health of the cows. As a gay man he left. Ernie was very interesting and I wish I had kept in touch.
After listening to a young man here on UA-cam that was part of the Amish community and left I heard all about the sins of the Amish they may not believe in homosexuality but they don't have a problem with pedophilia and bestiality and incest
Just imagine if heterosexuals were forced to live their lives undercou or forced into celibacy because their sexual desires were deemed sinful and abnormal. Gay men and women enduring so much torture for being themselves by hostile heterosexuals who believe everyone must be heterosexual. This problem is never going to see closure.
I wish more of us interacted with cultures not our own and developed trusted relationships. You set a high bar.
Literally nobody:
UA-cam recommendation: *_What if you are Amish and gay?_*
I had a very similar dilemma years ago. I chose to be myself over my religion. Yes, I had to pruned away toxic friends and relatives, but in the end, life is a lot healthier and happier!
Good for you. Life is for living as we are - not being brainwashed by unethical, evil, hypocritical religions!!!
i’m so happy for your brave and loving choice!!
Gay Amish Will live with the English!
I've been asking Eli Yoder about this for a while now but could never get an answer. Thank you for tackling this issue. It sounds like even tho they consider it a sin unlike English society they don't weigh it more heavily than any other sin.
That makes perfect sense because to God, a sin is a sin.
I have heard and read that Homosexual feelings and attractions are very common among the Amish and Mennonites some studies have been done to show that in larder familys 5 plus kids the chances of one being homosexual or bisexual increases some doctores feel this may be due to biological/hormonal reasons essentially in short nature. But many amsh do stay in communities just as stated in this video mainly due to there isolation and bc they know they would lose sooooo much. One man a Roman catholic once said to me that when his priest angerly questioned him as to how he could be gay and a catholic the man playfully but seriously posed a theory that mabe Homosexuality was gods form of Birth/population control and who knows maybe he is right. when I read the Bibal in regards to this issue allthough I myself am a roman catholic not protistant so we are not free to individually interpret the bibal and come to our own conclusions but from what I see god seems more angery at persons who give into homosexual feeling but are capable of settling down with a member of the oppiste sex and have kids but chooses to indulge in selfish pleasure with there own sex bc they do not want the responsibility of family and I have met men who are like this they are pigs in every sense of the word who just use gay men or trans women for sexual pleasure and have no intention to date or love or in some cases befriend them publicly . And that is were I agree with the Bible and the church on the matter.
But now it is not for you to judge that and also based on my experience I can tell you that if a gay man or a lesbian woman marries someone of the opposite sex and has children sooner or later he is going to cheat on his wife or husband and he is going to be unfaithful and that is worse.
If you take a literal reading of the Bible then everyone agree to the same thing. But every reading is subjective and opinions differ, spoiling the literal reading idea.
The Literary Party: Growing Up Gay and Amish in America by James Schwartz
Plain Rainbows: LGBTQ Amish and Anabaptist Stories podcast
As a Christian, and a gay men, I cannot imagine the difficulties the gay people must face in this faith.
The Amish faith is Christian, just like Baptist, Adventist, Nazarene, etc.
It is evil and should be illegal
I'm a proud gay single man without kids. I'm glad I never grew up in an Amish family. I will never support hate groups. I believe in spirituality not organized religions.
I have a couple video suggestions for you if you read this. First- I think it would be interesting to see how the Amish pay for things. I see them always shopping at Walmarts and Home Depot! I was wondering if they use a bank card, and how would they manage a bank account without a phone or computer? Second- do the Amish suffer from diseases like diabetes, Parkinson’s, psoriasis etc? It would be interesting to know due to the way they eat compared to the English ways of eating. Thanks!
Anna Volkov, having lived in a Amish community I can answer that question. The Amish do not use credit or debit cards. Nor do Amish stores accept them as a means of payment. Amish use cash and checks only. They manage their bank accounts the old fashioned way, with paper statements that come in the mail. The Amish do get those diseases but in a lesser degree. The hard physical work they do has a positive effect on their bodies and mitigates some of the potential harm less healthy food might bring. The Amish have accepted many "modern" things such as "convenience" foods, so cooking from scratch doesn't always happen. It is not unusual these days to find Amish cookbooks that use convenience foods, such as a can of soup, in the recipes. One Amish store I shopped at did have some boxed dinners, bags of cookies, and such. But the majority of items were "ingredient" type foods.
I've heard homosexuality talked about in this manner quite a bit, however I've never understood why the Amish bring up adultery other then it is a "sin." Homosexuality is a sexuality in the sense as it's a identity your born with which is also classified as a "sin," where as adultery is a betrayal of trust that is also a "sin," those 2 are not the same unless your just talking about the "sin" part. Now when you talk about having sex before marriage, that I understand completely because that is a control mechanism many religions use to bring you in line just like when you said that if the Amish did allow same sex marriage it would erode the control that the Amish church has over it's flock. That is something I can understand, I completely feel it is a disgusting way to treat our fellow humans, but as a tool to control and force people to do what they want so others don't have to feel uncomfortable or threatened, it makes complete sense. Ah...tradition...
Call it religion, but it's hatred. If you're Gay, you're Gay. That is who God made you. And God expects you to live as a Gay person and to defend yourself against all hatred. To deny who God made you is to deny God.
Okay so The Amish think they are Judge and God! Judge Not Less You Be Judged, Love All Your Family The Same. You are Not God and will be Judged the same Right
Thank you for another and informative insight into the Amish life, love all what you do :)
At 95, I've witnessed the change in society particularly in the case of homosexuality. I am glad for the changes that have taken place because of the freedom to make our own choices. To exercise our free agency is more important, to me, than life itself. I remember, as a youngster hearing of old maids and old bachelors and wondered why they didn't marry. Then, as the years passed, I remember hearing of homosexuals who were murdered because others hated them. People have become more educated and understanding to those first few individuals who came out openly and declared themselves. It took courage. Now, people are far more accepting of gay people. There are 8 billion people on this earth and each and everyone is as different from the other as snowflakes are. Not one is the same. I have a large family, am a great great grandfather, too. Not one in my family is the same as another. I love each and everyone. One is gay in a same sex marriage. I love that grandchild no less than the others. The point is that I know our Heavenly Father loves ALL 8 billion of us the same way. I therefore don't fret over the matter but let Him consider the effect of our choices. I just try to do what I think is right. None of us is perfect. So, at 95, I am a happy camper.
✳️ Fun fact - living in PA, gay/bi Amish men seem to enjoy visiting cruising areas here in PA (even if they don't participate they like to watch) #datswatsup
Nice video. But I always wonder what gives a person the right to tell another person whom he should sleep with. And if he sleeps with someone of his own sex, what gives them a right to deny him housing, employment and other basic human rights?
Like the members of Holiness/Pentecostal family, they are certain they speak for God. THEY DON'T EVEN KNOW WHO GOD IS, MUCH LESS SPEAK FOR HIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
A "right" of a person to "tell" another person whom he should "sleep" with completely mistargets the source of the idea.
Thousands of years of a functioning society is based on a set of principles, stemming from a proven system of regenerancy.
One does not argue from the simplicity of pointing fingers to a human individual. Placing a scapegoat is for creating a strawman to hate because it's convenient, where the ideology of marriage comes from an original plan, one that every individual struggles to follow.
It is impossible for gay men to be Amish, because the Amish are the "plain people." Gay men are not generally known for being plain.
Hi Erik, another informative video. Thanks for sharing.
It's very religious and godly to force someone to lie to themsevles, their community, and their god.
We all have the same God. Love ❤️ is Love ❤️. My beautiful beloved partner and I will celebrate 🎉 38 years on November 10 2023 God willing. Great video educational video friend. Amen 🙏 🇺🇸🇵🇷🇺🇸🇵🇷🙏🙏.
No it isn't, why do you think God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah.
Trust me, same sex behavior exsist in the Amish community. They are human afterall, religious beliefs suppress their sexual orientation, as many religions do.
I've known gay & lesbian Amish for the last 30 or so years. I've known several that got married, started a family & committed suicide. I know one that's a closet drunk because he's gay and feels trapped in his marriage - I'm pretty sure he's got an English friend with benefits. I've known ex-Amish that left because they were gay. One of them started to run around with other ex-Amish and confided that he left because he's gay - he committed suicide when the ex-Amish rejected him. They have about the same rate of gays & lesbians as the general population but, most get married and sacrifice their individual happiness to conform to their community. Like many cults, it's a sad situation for many of them.
Just because their culture is different doesn't mean they're a cult.
@@ia8018 you do not know what a cult is do you
Sin is what it is.
@@silent1967 NO it's not. God made them that way. It's a sin of you to judge his creation and judge when he is the only one able to judge, not you. You will go to hell for what you do, be careful.
@@Alejojojo6 No, gay is a choice. Look at Sodom and Gomorrah. Didn't turn out to good did it. I can make a judgment call, I can't condemn anyone but I can judge that being gay is a sin, no different than any other. You best go back and read the Bible again.
It's unfortunate that the Amish have developed in this manner. They are creating terrible conditions for people who cannot change who they are. Their limited world view and steadfastness to an antiquated concepts keep their community cruel and unwelcoming to other views. Their attitudes have little effect on my life unless they vote using these same limited concepts, which is the only danger.
How sad! I would only want my son or daughter being their true self and living a happy life.
My father told me that homosexuality is nether good or bad but it is nature's way of keeping overpopulation under control.
God's word is clearly honest what a man who lays with another man is called: an abomination.
The word is silent about women with other women. Jesus hated divorce too. Adultery too.
Seek the truth, and the truth will set you free. Free from anger, hate and prejudice. Which is opposite of what Jesus said was the most important commandment...."love your neighbor as yourself".
Satan has lied and deceived us.🥲
His mission is to destroy any kind of loving relationship. Some are helping him in his mission.😞
Some consider it a sin, but not Jesus, nor the Bible.
TRUTH
We've misinterpreted the context of biblical passages in the past. Passages of the Bible were used to condone slavery, elevating men over women, and anti-semitism.
The history of Christianity and large elements of the Hebrew Scriptures evince beliefs in a God who seem to bless a great many things we would deem today as sinful. Incest, polygamy, genocide, slavery, just to name a few. And divorce, which was considered to be a sin back then, seems to be acceptable today.
Extensive research has shown us we have yet got it wrong again. The context of homosexuality in the Bible has to do with lust, not love.
For instance, in the passage where it states, "a man should not lie with another man", we go back and look at the translation. The precise Hebrew words in Leviticus 20:13 actually states that the text prohibits a "sexual" relationship between a “man” (ish in Hebrew) and a male (zachar in Hebrew), not between an “ish” and another “ish".In ancient Greek culture, in that world, there was a popular and common social custom of men of a certain class socializing with younger males - in a context where mentoring, socializing, partying, and sexual activities would or could occur between the two groups.
These specific words - “men” and “males” - were used precisely in descriptions of the Greek custom back then because, at that time, only men who were of adult age and of sufficient substance to own land, vote, and marry, could legally be called “men.” Those who were too young to vote, own land, or marry could only be referred to as “males” under Greek law.
So since man>male is a specific term referring to Greek pederasty, then its use in Leviticus 20:13 would make that verse a prohibition of that practice, and not of homosexuality in general.
That would also mean that there is no such condemnation anywhere else in the Torah (Leviticus 18:22 also uses the word zachar, rather than ish).
Similarly, if the verse was meant to refer to adult homosexual behavior, the style of usage in both Leviticus 20 and the earlier Leviticus 18 would require that ish>ish be used, not ish>zachar. The fact that “isha” (woman) is used in both Leviticus verses adds to this.
“An ish should not lie with a zachar as he would with an isha” makes less contextual sense than “an ish should not lie with an ish as he would with an isha".
Since in its Greek meaning that “man>male” signifies a pederastic relationship, and it is this that the Leviticus verses outlaw. Therefore, the correct interpretation of the original text would be, a man shall not sleep with a boy as he does with a woman.
When it was translated into Hebrew, they wrongly changed God"s word to man and man, since they had no pederasty custom.
We also have the romantic relationship between Jonathan and David.
One relevant Bible passage on this issue is 1 Samuel 18:1:
And it came to pass, when he had made an end of speaking unto Saul, that the soul of Jonathan was knit with the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him as his own soul. (KJV)[20]
Another relevant passage is 2 Samuel 1:26, where David says:
I am distressed for thee, my brother Jonathan: very pleasant hast thou been unto me: thy love to me was wonderful, passing the love of women. (KJV)[21]
(Why a woman? Because women are the only love we have that involves sex).
The story of Ruth and Naomi in the Book of Ruth is also occasionally interpreted by contemporary scholars as the story of a lesbian couple.
Here is a brilliant BISHOP and biblical scholar, who spent a long time researching homosexual passages in the Bible. He has been on many TV programs, including many on ultra-conservative Bill O'Reilly's show.
He gives many sound reasons why we got it wrong in the interpretation. He also found slavery, the elevation of men over women, and antisemitism to be misinterpreted.
And not only this Bishop, a Biblical scholar, but the Pope has come out in support of the LGBT community as well.
Telling Christians they need to ask the LGBT community for forgiveness and apologize.
He also said that they need to be integrated into society.
I have taken the time to pray and research on homosexuality, and abortion, to make sure I get it right. I am not trusting my eternal soul to someone else's interpretations. That is the lazy way to be a Christian.
These decisions will impact other people's lives tremendously. They should not be taken lightly. But unfortunately, if there is no close relationships with an LGBT person, people find it hard to find love in their hearts to make sure they get it right.
The Holy Spirit has spoken to me about this and has brought to me this research and helped me understand it. I have prayed many times to make sure that if I got it wrong to please tell me, but I have always gotten reassurance in return. Basically the Holy Spirit says that when you look Through The Eyes Of Love you can't get it wrong.
So here's where he has led me on other scripture as well.
Corinthians 6:9 and 1 Timothy 1:10 sound very convincing in including lesbians and gay men in the most dreadful lists of depraved human behavior imaginable.
The fact is that the word translated “homosexual” does not mean “homosexual” and the word translated “effeminate” does not mean "effeminate!”
The English word “homosexual” is a composite word made from a Greek term (homo, “the same”) and a Latin term (sexualis, “sex”). The term “homosexual” is of modern origin and was not used until about 100 years ago. There is no word in biblical Greek or Hebrew that is parallel to the word “homosexual.” No Bible before the Revised Standard Version in 1946 used “homosexual” in any Bible translation.
The word translated as “homosexual” or “sexual pervert” or some other similar term is Greek ἀρσενοκοίτης arsenokoites, which was formed from two words meaning “male” and “bed.” This word is not found anywhere else in the Bible and has not been found anywhere in the contemporary Greek of Paul’s time. We do not know what it means. It probably refers to male prostitutes with female customers, which was a common practice in the Roman world, as revealed in the excavations at Pompeii and other sites.
When early Greek-speaking Christian preachers condemned homosexuality, they did not use this word. John Chrysostom (A.D. 345-407) preached in Greek against homosexuality, but he never used this word for homosexuals, and when he preached on 1 Corinthians 6:9 and 1 Timothy 1:10, he did not mention homosexuals. Here's
Also, “Soft” does not mean “effeminate.” The word translated “effeminate” in 1 Corinthians 6:9 is Greek μαλακός malakos and means “soft” or “vulnerable.” The word is translated as “soft” in reference to clothing in Matthew 11:8 and Luke 7:25 and as “illness” in Matthew 4:23 and 9:35. It is not used anywhere else in the New Testament and carries no hint of reference to sexual orientation. Malakia (μαλακία) in 1 Corinthians 6:9 probably refers those who are “soft,” “pliable,” “unreliable,” or “without courage or stability.” The translation of malakos as “effeminate” is incorrect, ignorant, degrading to women, and impossible to justify based on ancient usage compared to the meaning of “effeminate” today.
The Bible was first written in the ancient languages of Hebrew and Greek and … not translated into English until 1611. It had been translated into Latin, French, and German prior to being translated into English. None of these translations ever mentioned homosexuality as an interpretation of these Greek words.
liviticus where the rules written for the priest and helpers in the temple.
Also most of those scriptures are about rape, nothing about 2 loving consenting adults.
Such a hard decision for gay men or lesbians in the Amish community - either live in an unnatural marriage or be excommunicated. No freedom to live as they should.
If you have the stomach, read “Abandoned Prayers,” a true crime book by Gregg Olsen, about an Amish man who was homosexual and turned to murder. The fate of his little son, who he took with him while on the run, is especially tragic.
The only Amish serial killer
That book was heartbreaking. "Little Boy Blue..." 😢
Was it a fiction or non-fiction?
@@melodiedrury2567 non fiction
I just hope that readers will realize that this is simply a story and not a suggestion that LGBTQ people of any sex have a greater propensity to commit murder than heterosexuals.
It’s not because they aren’t exposed. It’s because it is a sin. Sin is disordered behavior. Whether it was natural that they had a gay feeling or thought, if they choose to continue to perpetrate that in their mind that is a choice; what one is asked to do is to choose to DO the right thing, which is to engage in ordered behavior. So no matter what they think or feel, it is what people do that is judged; judged in this sense means to be accepted and allowed leadership vs asked to live outside of the community after being give a chance to change their behavior/actions to behind to do the ordered thing rather than to satisfy their carnal desires and placate thoughts and feelings.
I can't imagine the amount of silent suffering of many young gay Amish youth. I always wondered about this and I grew up in rural PA my whole life as a gay man.
The Amish approach to sexuality is abusive to all the young gay men and lesbian women born into Amish families. And they are born into Amish families at the same rate as any other group, meaning a significant number. They are downright cruel to these kids, telling them they have to choose between what is natural to them and their families and community. And then later they are cruel to the marital partners of these kids. Those partners will never truly know marital pleasure. But none of that seems important to the Amish. They are intentionally causing harm to others and need to stop that!
Of course Amish are happy!
A common reaction to this post praises the way it is being non-judgemental in its presentation of what it claims to be Amish beliefs regarding homosexuality, but this is precisely the kind of moral neutrality that ultimately can lead to a death camp.
My grandmother was ex-Swartzentruber (one of the most conservative Amish), and I was raised Beachy Amish in Holmes county (for anyone unfamiliar, Beachy Amish are car driving Mennonites, we don't do Rumspringa, etc.) and PennDutch was my first tongue, but English later became my dominant.
I am transgender. I've known this since I was 4, but didn't have the language for it until I was 12. I am 25 now and transitioning. I grew up incredibly suicidal and depressed from a young age, I expressed suicidal ideation from as early as 7, and made an attempt at my own life in my teens. But when I finally was able to pursue transition, for the first time in my life, I learned that I love being alive. I love living. I love everything I am becoming. I, for the first time, love myself. Hormonal replacement therapy has made me feel like less of a stranger to myself, and feel emotions again that i had never felt for most of my life-genuine joy, grief, empathy, everything, rather than just apathy and hopelessness.
A lot of my family rejected me for it, but some didn't. And those who didn't reject me, while not fully on board (but understanding that this is the direction I am taking my life and no longer trying to actively stop it), I love and appreciate with my whole heart. I don't mind if they might still misgender me, because I'm not doing this for their or anyone else's validation; I'm doing this for me, to feel at home in my own body. Any language people might use for me, I don't care. They love me more than they could ever hate what I am, because love endures, and love prevails.
I'm no longer Beachy Amish-Mennonite, I found a home and community in converting to Reform Judaism. But the fact that my dad, who was raised by an Amish woman, chose to love me and eventually respect my decision instead casting me away like others have means more to me than anything else I've ever known. Sometimes they might alter their beliefs and reevaluate how they personally interpret the bible to choose love and acceptance, to love thy neighbor, and to not cast stones.
Sending love and support to you ❤🏳️🌈
I'm glad you're able to be your true self
I hope that works out for you. I’ll check in in 20 years
@@J52d-g well it's already been 21 years of a solid consistency on my identity, and only improving since i started socially transitioning 13 years ago. so i can confidently say it's been working out for me!
@@katidoj I wish you nothing but the best and will freely admit I can’t relate to any of the feelings you have.
How on Earth could someone embrace a religion which discriminates against him/herself?
You did excellent in your neutrality and I much appreciate it. Well done!
I respect the work you put into answering, but I'm saddened to learned this is just another cult
Handled very nicely. Thank you.
I wonder if all Amish only have sex when they feel the need to procreate? The tenant of sexual relations only for the purpose of procreation seems flawed.
Thank you for a great presentation !
Great perspective, about a community of folk whom treat women like second class citizens.
You did an excellent video explaining this and touching on this sensitive subject! As always your videos are fascinating! The photography you show is excellent and beautiful! I was visiting Lancaster (Bird in Hand, Intercourse, Strasburg) today and thought of you. 😉
🙂🙂