Burning Up From Inside | Mohawk Airlines Flight 40
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- Опубліковано 8 вер 2024
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This is the story of Mohawk Airlines Flight 40. On the 23rd of june 1967 a BAC 1-11 was flying from Syracuse to Washington DC with a stop over in elmira new york. The BAC 1-11 that they were flying was brand new having only had its first flight the year before. Also Do you think that BAC should have called the one eleven the triple one, you know like how we say 777 today, i think triple one sounds a lot better.
By 2:07 pm local time the plane was at elmira. At elmira a few people got off and a few people got on, bringing the total number of passengers on the flight to 30. Soon after everyone was onboard flight 40 got its IFR or instrument flight rules clearance to washington. Their clearance only allowed them to climb to 6000 feet instead of the requested 16000 feet as there was conflicting traffic in the area.
The plane took off from Elmira at 2:39 and the controllers watched as the plane took off and turned left towards the south. Soon after takeoff the plane was handed off to New York center and the plane continued to climb. At 2:44 Pm new york center cleared the plane to climb and maintain 16000 feet, The controller at new york center listened for acknowledgement , but nothing, Flight 40 was not responding.
The controller turned to his radar scope. The radar screen updated every 12 seconds or one sweep. At first the plane appeared to slow down then it moved latterly during the next sweep.
In the air, as new york center cleared them to climb the first officer remarked, “It's hard to tell just what it is”, something was not going according to plan. They pulled back their speed. For some reason they were having control problems. The first officer said “Theres something screwy here”. The pilots decided to return to elmira, but their transmissions werent going through. No one on the ground knew that flight 40 was in trouble. In the cockpit the captain exclaimed “weve lost all control we dont have anything” as they struggled to turn their plane back towards elmira.
By 2:46 pm the captain was no longer trying to turn the plane back towards the airport. He was trying to keep it level. He then asks his first officer “what have we done to that tail surface? You have any idea” To which the first officer replied with “I dont know I just cant figure it out”, but their attempts were in vain, the plane started to dive the speed of the plane increased from 224 knots to 315 knots. In the cockpit the captain said “ive gone out of control” that was the last thing recorded on the Cockpit voice recorder. At new york center, by the third sweep of the radar screen the blip that represented flight 40 was nowhere to be found. ATC re routed a piper aztec to the last known position of flight 40. The pilot of the aztec radioed in a burning wreck of a plane. It was flight 40. Unfortunately none of the 34 people onboard survived.
People in the town of Mansfield Pennsylvania saw the plane go down. Those eye witness testimonies gave the investigators the first clues to unlocking what happened to flight 40. They saw a plane that was flying lower than other planes in the area and at first it was flying level. But then they saw smoke coming out of the plane, from the back. The witnesses couldnt agree on the color of the smoke. Some said it was grey some said it was black and some said it was brown, almost rust colored. But the eyewitness testimonies pointed to one culprit. An inflight fire.
A look at the wreckage corroborated what the eye witnesses had said
I was there that day when that plane went down. It went down behind the chicken farm between blossburg and Morris run Pennsylvania. My cousin, the chicken farmer, and a bunch of guys from the Jones & Bragg coal company were the first ones on the scene. I didn't see the plane coming down myself but my little cousin who was five at the time told me she was in her front yard in Morris run and saw the plane in flames right before it crashed into the mountain about half a mile from her house. They hauled all the pieces of the plane into the yard at The pallet company in Morris run where they laid for years until the investigation was complete. I was just a little kid, what I remember most is hearing the sirens echoing off the mountains for what seemed like the entire night, that and riding past the yard full of wreckage every time we went into blossburg or Mansfield to go shopping
I saw the Air Florida crash on the news, it terrified me.Years later, I move to DC to fly for United. Every time I ran over the 14th street Bridge, my heart skipped a few beats. I still get anxious driving by it. My ex husband, who worked at the Pentagon, actually ran home as the accident scene was so chaotic and intense. The thing that hits me so hard is the fact that this disaster was totally avoidable. The rescuers were heroic.
Back in the sixties when they were doing the investigation I remember something about a passenger or passengers who they believed may have been an assassination Target. I can't remember exactly who it was but I kind of remember it having something to do with the Catholics and Church. Anyway here's the passenger list
June 26: “Utica (AP) - Mohawk Airlines provides the following names and addresses for passengers killed in the crash Friday of Mohawk Airlines Flight 40 near Blossburg, PA.
1. Mrs. Bashore, Winston Salem, N.C.
2. Miss Hope Bashore, daughter, Winston Salem, N.C.
3. James Bay J., 906 Ellison Ave., Falls Church, Va..
4. Father Alexander Beaton, 51, Montour Falls, N.Y.
5. Erwin Booth, 4001 Sneed Road, Nashville, Tenn.
6. Dr. D. L. Branson, 205 Murray Apts., Rolla, Mo.
7. Edward Carroll Jr., 7400 Westfield Road, Richmond, Va.
8. Miss Judith Cory, Akron, N.Y.
9. Sgt. Clancy J. Davis, 1268 Rhaum St., NE, Washington, D.C.
10. Prof. Robert N. Langdon, Fredonia State University, Fredonia, N.Y.
11. Frank Laskowski, West Winfield, N.Y.
12. James Laskowski, son, West Winfield, N.Y.
13. Joseph S. Louzon, 2004 Helmsby Road, Catonsville, Md.
14. George Mingee, 1204 Willow Ave., Mechanicsville, Va.
15. George R. Paige, 2011 Summerdale Dr., Raleigh, N.C.
16. Ruport E. Patton, 1311 Clinton Ave., East, Huntsville, Ala.
17. Frederick R. Phillips Jr., 1431 Ninth St., North, Arlington Va.
18. James E. Pickett, 4909 Battery Lane, Bethesda, Md.
19. Ronald J. Remick, 4070 Barnes Road, Apt. 302, Jacksonville, Fla.
20. Jerry D. Ramos, 3404 Lorring Dr., Suitland, Md.
21. Dwight Spencer, Crabtree Manor, 6 Forks Road, N.C.
22. Father DeSales Standerwick, Montour Falls, N.Y.
23. Walter E. Steele Jr., 2518 Meadow Wood Dr., Nashville, Tenn.
24. Mrs. Pam Switzer, Sackets Harbor, N.Y.
25. Donald M. Thomas, 5412 North Sunland Dr., Virginia Beach. Va.
26. Vernon W. Thoren Jr., 5500 Lanham Station Road, Lanham, Md.
27. Pvt. Donald F. Wiars, Marietta, N.Y.
28. Miss Cynthia A. Witecki, 119 North Fulton St., Auburn, N.Y.
29. James D. Wright, 11904 Bluehill Road, Silver Springs, Md.
30. An unidentified sailor, who boarded the aircraft at Syracuse.
Wow Joe. I don’t recognize your name but I’m Dan Adams and I grew up in Covington and I remember this day. I was 9 years old. I think Johnny Swanson was the first person to get to the crash site. He was my grandfather’s neighbor. I was amazed when I stumbled across this video. I did not see the plane going down, but my brother did and commented on it. And I guess the chicken farm was Olsen’s?
@@joecummings1260 l
@@chocolatte6157 I'm related to some Adams up that way. My great-aunt Eva was an Àdams and then a McDermott. Her son Bud Adams had a camp up by the reservoir,, I think her son Popeye was also an Àdams. Alan McDermott is the cousin I was talkin about who went up to the crash site with the chicken farmer. I forget the farmer's name but he had that big automated laying house up there. The cousin I was talkin about that's all it from her front yard is mooch. She's got catering trucks now, but she used to tend bar at the American legion
As a former Bac 1-11 Mechanic (300 thru 500 series) this a good episode. The aircraft had some other issues as well. however your description is abit misleading, the non return butterfly valve had a spring as well as later being required to be installed with the hinge axis vertical, it is an autonomous mechanical check valve, Thus saying " when the pilots used the valve" is incorrect, they have no control over CHECK valves in the pneumatic system, unlike the flow control and pack valves. I currently work the 777 and it has many such valves, all mechanical and autonomous . There were fire sensors around the apu itself, just not where the plenum and fire occurred.
Very well done in pointing that out sir! And another thing is that people who have channels like this (including this one) even when positive criticism,corrections or comments about their video's content is made,they dont care or bother to respond and interact with the public! All they want is "like and subscribe" ! Silence means death,I once heard from an expert in this kind of thing!
On the other hand, they didn't say whether or not the APU was running on T.O. I seem to remember a report that the APU EGT was really high, with the bleed air overpowering the APU output. As a jr BAC mech at the time, as mentioned one had to check the flappers on valve, and that the pin or rod holding valve was vertical. As Sparky said, there was more to it..
I am amazed I happened upon this video. On that day, my siblings and I were swimming in a swimming hole in a local creek. I did not see it, but one of my brothers saw the low flying plane and commented on it. It crashed on a hill top near Blossburg and Morris Run. My grandfather’s neighbor, Johnny Swanson, I believe was the first person to the crash site. He was operating a bulldozer nearby at a small strip mine and either walked to or drove the bulldozer to the site. It was carnage. Not something anyone would want to witness. The wreckage was moved to a fenced in area in Morris Run that was visible from the road. I remember riding by with my parents and seeing the debris from the crash. Years later, it was all gone, but I dated a girl who lived within 100 yards of the impoundment area.
Thanks for your story Choco. It adds to the overall story.
If there had been a heat sensor in the chamber, the take off would have been aborted since it was already burning while they were taxying to the runway. The hydraulics were one issue, the other is that the control cables to the elevators also burned through as the aluminum support structure was melting away. I thought the NTSB reported that the return valve had been installed backwards allowing the hot bleed air to enter the chamber and cause the fire. The previous crew had reported that they smelled something hot in the tail section but the hot smell disappeared before the new crew departed Syracuse for Elmira. An AD was issued following this accident and changes were made to prevent the bleed air valve from being improperly installed. Still sad as the crew were unable to save their aircraft from destruction. Captain Bullock's son was our pastor for quite a few years in Manlius, NY.
If the APU is a little jet engine, why not give it the same treatment? Not just sensors, fire extinguishing.
@@freeculture agree.. some do..
@@freeculture This was a lesson we've learned since the 60s when this mishap occurred. Modern APUs have had full fire detection and extinguishing capabilities for a while now.
yes I agree lots of these accidents can be avoided
"I thought the NTSB reported that the return valve had been installed backwards allowing the hot bleed air to enter the chamber and cause the fire."
The Japanese coined a term: "poka-yoke" (mistake proofing.) Design equipment so that it can only be installed properly is an essential consideration. For example, in the case of Tuninter Flight 1153, a fuel gauge designed for the ATR 42 was mistakenly installed in the larger ATR 72. Poka-yoke would alter the design in such a way that the fuel gauge intended for one aircraft type could not be physically fitted into another. One of the largest implementers of poka-yoke design is Toyota Production Systems (TPS). As a former system software developer, I used the poka-yoke concept with great success.
Wow, the investigators were excellent. What a thorough job.
You sir! Are a great storyteller! Being a former heavy duty truck mechanic I can visualize valves, hydraulic fluid hoses etc. Comes all together with your storytelling. Thank you!
Top 3 people on UA-cam forsure
yeah man it's true I've never been in air accident before and I wouldn't want to
man most of these accident can be avoided man it's a good idea they stop people smoking in flight I remember the days
when people got on the plane every one lit up and the beer was going down
I've been on long distance flights and I've not remembered were I was crazy man I've arrived at lay over stops gone to the bar a mist the plane got another flight and ended up in some parts of the world I had no intention on going to that's the trouble with drinking and having a f line of coke on the trip sumtimes I would be going from Vancouver to London UK and ended up in Africa or China drinking
have a great day 😀
If ur gay just say that
@5:50 - an increase in 8 degrees Celsius is only an increase in 14.4 degrees Fahrenheit; 8 degrees C as a temperature is 46 degrees Fahrenheit, but an increase of 8 degrees C is only an increase of 14.4 F - I hope that's clear! A great video as always though!
That’s what I came to comment too
Mohawk merged with Allegheny Airlines, which then changed its name to USAir in 1979. Mohawk's BAC1-11's were flying for USAir well into the 1980's, nearly 20 years after this incident.
Interesting information, thank you for sharing.
I was a second year copilot at Mohawk at the time of this occurrence, flying the FH-227 turboprop from the airline's main base, UCA, the Utica-Rome (NY) Airport, where this crew was based, all known to me, including the, "Stewardesses", Virginia Bungert and Gale Sardelle. I was called by crew scheduling, to ferry an empty airplane, with Captain Bob Lendrim, to DCA to fly the 1-11's return flight from DCA, to Elmira and Syracuse. Enroute to DCA, we could see the smoke from the smoldering wreckage. Beginning in September, 1968, I subsequently accumulated about 10,000 hours in the 1-11, with Mohawk until mid 1972, then with Allegheny/USAir, about half in each seat, before moving on to the DC-9, then B727, retiring in 1993. (I'm old)
I went to school with Gale Sardelle who was a stewardess on Flight 40. She was a sweet, quiet, beautiful girl.
yes Gale is a lovely person
Sad
😞😞😞😞😞😞😞😞😞😞😞😞😞😞😞😞😞😞😞😞😞😞
Damn, that’s sad bro
I just googled Gale, she was a pretty girl. Sorry her life came to such a terrible end. RIP
Aircraft was certified as the BAC 1-11, hence one-eleven.
Correct
"One Eleven" rolls of the tongue rather well but it was also a case of BAC were developing the Two Eleven and Three Eleven at the time though the government cut their funding so neither made it to production.
If there has been a heat sensor and a fire suppression system they might have been able to make it back.
A decent chance even with out the fire suppression system, but I agree that would be smart.
Thanks for the detailed account of what happened to Flight 40. I have read the NTSB report many times and you summarized and visualized it very well. My dad was on that plane.
My name is Matthew Kranz I have a Facebook page dedicated to finding the families of the victims on board as we have dedicated a memorial for the 50th anniversary may I ask who your father was?
facebook.com/mohawkflight40/
BAC was designing a wide body twin with tail-mounted engines and RB.211 engines, it was to be called the BAC 3-11. Unfortunately, due to the UK joining the Airbus program, they were forced to dissolve the British Aircraft Corporation and scrap the project (which would have been a direct Airbus A300 competitor) 🙁
Boeing 727s had heat sensors to detect leaking bleed air. Warning lights on the FE panel were Lower Aft Body Overheat and Strut Overheat.
"One eleven" is efficient and rhythmic. "Seven seventy-seven" is neither. So "triple seven" it is.
The F111 was also referred to as the F One-Eleven.
'Triple One' is naff.
2112
Agreed.
In Brazil she was called just “one eleven” - spoken in english !
I think it's a 1-11? Hence the name
Interesting how many of the commentariat have some sort of personal connection to the crash/crash site. Another excellent video and thanks to all who shared their recollections!
facebook.com/mohawkflight40/
One eleven is far more elegant sounding.
Agreed. "Triple-Seven" sounds good because it has good rhythm, which "One-Eleven" also has but "Triple-One" does not, to my ear.
Might also be a British thing. We also do it with other numbers: "eleven hundred" = 1100
Just as the F-111 fighter plane is called F-one-eleven.
Yes. Yes, Yes... It's always spoken as one eleven, so much sweeter on the ear. I lived near an airport in the UK and loved seeing them go over even though they were noisy. Loved flying on them too.
I remember Mohawk flying DC-3's.
I still get the shivers at the sound of a big radial engine.
I know where there is one that is still flight worthy. The Canadian Warplane Heritage Museum. (yes, the museum that has the other flight worthy Lancaster. I have seen that big gal up close and even saw it when they were doing maintenance on the engines!) I love the good ol' Douglas DC-3. A true workhorse from the start.
If you like DC-3s, Check out Buffalo Airways and also the Plane Savers YT channel. They brought C-FDTD, an abandon for 27 years former RCAF Dakota / DC-3 (which dropped paratroopers on D-day no less) back to airworthy condition.... ua-cam.com/video/g-18hYFcV4k/v-deo.html
OMFG! It flew from my hometown! I grew up in Mattydale, next to that airfield. 😱😱😱😱😱
I really like your content, it's full of information and with no melodramatics and ads. And it feels more personal when you ask us questions during the vids, rather than just continuing to narrate the story like in any other airplane crash documentary !
5:50 when converting temperature CHANGE you shouldn't add in the 32, only the 9/5 multiplier.
8 degrees Celsius ambient temperature is 46 degrees Fahrenheit but 8 degrees Celsius temperature CHANGE is only 14 degrees Fahrenheit temperature CHANGE.
An even simpler example: 0 degrees Celsius ambient temperature is 32 degrees Fahrenheit but 0 degrees Celsius temperature CHANGE is still only 0 degrees Fahrenheit temperature CHANGE.
So many thumbs up!
Some years ago I fixed a bunch of Wikipedia articles that had been damaged by some idiot who thought they would be clever and use a bot to automatically convert Fahrenheit temps to Celsius or vice versa - but they forgot about the temperature _change_ issue, so ended up with tons of incorrect conversions…
As a kid, I got to tour Hancock International in Mattydale. I got to see how planes were handled, up close, at the CNY airport. This hits, literally, SOOOOOOOOOO close to home. 🤯
My dad worked for Eastern Airlines at Hancock until they went out of business. I got to spend the day with him at work on my 5th birthday--SO cool.
@JT: I knew the crew members, as I was a second year Mohawk copilot at the time, from Jamesville, NY, formerly NYSP - BCI, based at Utica, frequently flying from Syracuse Hanciock.
Keep up the amazing work!
My first ever flight was from Bradford, PA to Pittsburgh on a Mohawk CV 440 circa 1974. We flew through a violent thunderstorm and how that plane stayed in the air was nothing short of a miracle. I’ve flown hundreds of times since then and this was the worst flying experience of my life!
Bob: Inasmuch as Mohawk had never served Bradford, and had merged with Allegheny in mid 1972, you probably, flew in an Allegheny Convair 580 turboprop conversion, which I, as ex-Mohawk flew from June to December, 1972, including many flights from PIT to BFD, before reverting to the BAC 1-11. Furthermore, you, absolutely did not fly through a "Violent" or any other thunderstorm, or the airplane might have emerged from the bottom, in pieces or, at least, seriously damaged.. Furthermore, it was, and still is, an FAR violation to do so, and no captain would take that risk to his passengers, crew, aircraft, and himself. You were, probably, just close enough to see lightening and experience the turbulence. Exaggerate much?
Hey Mini your vids have measurably improved from early ones. And I'm glad you have a respectable pool of subscribers.
Sad 😞 rip Amen. Great educational video friend.
Great video. In studying other plane accidents with a fire, a good rule of thumb is 4 minutes. Bring it to a conclusion in 4 minutes or less. Either on a runway or a ditching for an out of control fire. That is about how long you have before structural damage occurs and you could loose control. A heat sensor in the back would help, but once that warning goes off the crew has to be trained to react fast. It becomes a race to the ground before you loose control.
I grew up in that area and was and undergrad at the time and I recall the mishap. I never thought I would be hearing more about it here as that area of NY State was a rather isolated and a somewhat “backwater” area in terms of air travel. There was another local air port, Broome County Airport due east of Elmira, that might have been another recovery area for Mohawk 40, but that entire area too was pretty isolated. Nice coverage.
My dad was NTSB crash investigator for this crash. Being a coal mining area, when they came back from town to get volunteers to look for wreckage, the only ones available were boy scouts.
In South Africa during the 1980s, a Boeing 737 took off from Durban airport en route for Johannesburg..At one point, an engine (I think it was the port engine) exploded, and there followed a hair-raising return to Durban. The plane landed safely and with no injuries. A friend of mine on that flight recounted the story to me. The passenger on his left was flying for the first time. He left the apron and headed straight for the bus station, swearing that he would never fly again. I do not remember that the incident made much of a stir in the media, possibly because of the very strict security legislation of the time. The plane was one of the older Boeing 737s with the engines under the wings instead of in front on pylons. I am sorry I have no further details, but I am sure it must be on record somewhere.
I think "one-eleven" is an English thing. I also knew the F111 as the F-one-eleven.
Great job! On the question of a fire detector, yes depending on when the fire started it could have helped but what would have been even more helpful was a fire supression system in the APU bay with manual actuation from the cockpit and automatic activation via fire detection sensors/loops.
but why don't make mandatory by regulations the fire suppression systems in the APU bay for every commercial airplane?
@@PPiero63: I think they do now. This tragedy occurred in 1967.
All 1-11s had fire detection and suppression in the APU bay. You can see the fire handle on the glareshield in the video.
Great video, excellent graphics and very good factual story composition. Thank you!
It seems highly unusual to me that heat/smoke particulate/pressure sensors wouldn't be fitted in an internal plenum space with an engine inside it, even if it is a small engine that serves only to provide electrical power.
The 727 had an "aft body" sensor because of the engine in there.
@YTisleftwingpropaganda Really Ah.
Not really,a plenum chamber holds the matter within under positive pressure which could prevent a pressure sensor from performing at its optimum capability.
I'm partial to calling it the "Triple Uno"
What a nightmare, imagine that front row seat in the flight deck just watching that ground get closer as your nose down doing 300 knots….
This is why plane crashes are a common fear… the torchere of having enough time to come to the realization that death is certain… ugh
Very good! I'd never heard of this disaster.
Never heard of this tragedy until I watched an episode of “Mad Men.” Horrible disaster, may the victims rest in eternal peace.
Great video again. Excellent research, narration and graphics. 👏👍🙂
Whats amazing is the stunning difference between FSX and MSFS 2020.
‘ONE - ELEVEN’ sounds way better than ‘Triple ONE’
Why not eleventy-one?
@@shadowfox-nf6zi Because "eleventy" isn't a word. Seventy IS.
‘ONE - ELEVEN’ didn't keep 34 people from dying and ‘Triple ONE’ wouldn't have either.
TRIPLE JUAN
@@ronniewall1481
Dear god... There's 3 Juans on the balcony!
Excellent, as always.
One small error -- the temperature increase caused by the reverse thrusters is ~14° F, not ~46° F. This is because when speaking in temperature deltas terms, you only need to multiply Celsius by 1.8 for the equivalent Fahrenheit differential. The +32° F bias is only added when an object's real temperature in F is needed. Example: H2O's temperature differencial from freezing to boiling is 180° F (212 - 32), which is 100° C * 1.8. In contrast, H20's boiling point is 212° F, which is 100° C * 1.8 + 32.
Again, excellent deconstruction, excellent presentation!
Interesting account. It was always one-eleven. In Britain they tend to say "treble" when N. Americans say "triple". BAC Treble sounds terrible!
It’s not that simple. British English commonly says “triple X” for a number three times in succession. (American English rarely uses this, though it is the construction we do use when we do it, like in the 777. But Americans never say “triple X” in phone numbers, for example.) American English uses the word “treble” in very specific situations, like awarding “treble damages” in court.
@@tookitogo Interesting. Well, it has been a long time since I lived in Britain. Nevertheless, I'm still glad "BAC treble one" never caught on!
@@TerrySmith1953 Agreed!
@@tookitogo I think it's more a question of how language has evolved. As a child in the UK in the 60s, treble meant "multiply by three" - like "treble chance" in betting (three times more chance of winning) or "he threw a treble six" when playing games involving dice. We never said "triple six" back then, though now it's maybe become the norm).
Triple meant "having three parts" - like the triple jump in athletics, triple bypass in surgery etc.
As they both sound similar (and both came from the same Latin root anyway), it's no surprise that one or the other would end up being the only one left. Seems that triple has become the usual choice for almost all cases.
Aside: We can usefully ignore the other meaning of treble (the treble clef in music and the treble tone control on amplifiers) originally meaning a pre-pubescent voice.
@@SteveLFBO Your understanding of the meanings of treble vs triple is _exactly_ how I understand them (as an American), except that triple can have either meaning.
Air Canada 797 in 1983 is one incident where there was a fire in the back that they couldn’t determine the cause of the fire because of extensive damage. The plane managed to land and did not crash, but 23 people died when it flashed over after landing.
A fire sensor would help along with a fire suppression system in that plenum for the apu.
BAC base in the Filton (50 miles from where I live ) has been turned into a museum the aerospace museum. It has a Concorde in it and you can go inside .
@antryo YT: If you have an interest in the history of the BAC 1-11, (One-one-one, in Brit speak)you might like to know that it was produced and tested at a facility about five miles south of Weybridge, Surrey, at the Old Wisely Airfield, about 95 miles east of Filton. It is no longer in use, but still shown on Google Earth. I am proud to be a, "High time" pilot on the 1-11/200, between 1968 and 1980, with about 5,000 hours in each cockpit seat., while employed by Mohawk/Allegheny/USAir.
No way they make it back even with a heat censor. 900f is hot as hell and aluminum has a low melt point
Agree...what they needed was a suppression system to go with a fire sensor. A good halon bottle to smother the fire.
Becomes as soft as putty - or, in some cases, it becomes hot-short. That means it’s also brittle as well as weak.
@@busaf95 Halon is not approved for new systems or refilling old systems in the US. Ozone depletion, say the people who go in for such things.
IF it was burning before they took off, the heat sensor would have alerted them and they never would have taken off.
I remember driving up that way and seeing that cross at 3:16 long before I ever knew about this crash and just knowing it was for something more than just your usual road side cross.
Maybe someone local can chime in, but it is my understanding that the cross is not at or near the crash site and it's just a cross on a random hill.
this reminds me of the sous city crash. how after total loss of hydraulics they were still able to "control" pitch of the plane due to the remaining engines' off center of gravity, and did somewhat controlled crash landing. this plane couldnt have done such a thing because its engines are essentially inline with its center of mass along that axis...
Surely it should've been the Eleventy-first ;) Another great video thank you!
honestly really like this paint livery
Same tbh
One eleven because it was BAC 1-11, note the hyphen.
Going to bed and seeing a new video uploaded by you excites me. This is my life now 😂
I’m touched you like my videos so much!
I watch them all too
You are the best narrator on UA-cam!
A heat sensor is only useful if you also have some kind of fire suppression
Not really, the temperature was already super high during taxi; if the flight crew had known, they could've aborted the fight and safely evacuated the plane before take-off.. doesn't make a difference if they had suppression or the means to fight the fire - if they'd known it was burning, they wouldn't have died
What you're saying is basically _"smoke detectors are pointless unless you also own a fire engine"_
Heat sensors here would've saved every single soul on board
Knowledge is power. Knowing there is a serious heat problem somewhere gives the flight crew a fair idea how quickly they have to get out of the air.
Sorry I prefer One Eleven.... triple one sounds like an emergency phone number.
I've been binge watching your videos this last couple of days and I think they are great, definitely subbed.
No wonder fire is possibly a pilot's worst nightmare
Thank You!
Posting on Facebook...
An Interflug Ilyushin Il-62 crashed for an almost identical reason in Königs Wusterhausen south of Berlin in 1972. A hot air duct in the empennage burst, the resulting fire destroyed the control cables
Wow the survivor guilt must've been difficult. Those who got off at the airport
2:13 "We've lost all control"
Hmm, sounds like the ideal time for a reboot :)
Turn all engines off and on again?
so sad to loose so many people over a a little valve, that seems to be the way in plane crashes. one little mistake gets compounded by another , but just like cars they keep pumping new models out without getting all the bugs out, faulty cars though kill one here one there, but a lot more deaths in cars added up than flying.
Yeah my girlfriend and her husband have this love affair with Jeep brand now believe me I love Jeep but I would not buy a new one they are not the last three Jeeps they have bought have been lemons so this last one after spending almost 10 years making payments on the thing cuz they bought it after the lease ran out is they had put too many miles on it they were paid in just outrageous sum of money because it was a lemon Etc what did they buy a brand new 2021 Jeep with couldn't be delivered after they signed all the papers but it needed to be serviced because it had just come off the boat basically to the dealership had 17 miles on it because it has to be returned to the manufacturer for serious defect. I told her my husband who knows vehicles on his spend a whole lifetime doing this tried to get me to warn her do not get a Jeep that they're having trouble but on a trip to vacation in San Diego they bought the one she really wanted off the showroom floor good for her I hope that's about 10 years from now they'll give them another refund I think they're counting on it.
The DC-9 has a fire sensor for the APU compartment plus a stand alone fire suppression system. You can access the tail through the door in the back of the cabin. If the BAC 111 had an alarm saying fire APU they could have fought the fire before it got out of hand. BTW misting Skydrol sounds like really shitty day, skydrol leaks just suck in general, it strips paint, destroys acoustic insulation and is the only thing I’m seen turn asbestos tile into a crumbling rubber.
Damn I didn’t know that it was that corrosive
Its horrible if you inhale it as well
@@MiniAirCrashInvestigation There are a lot of petroleum products that aren't compatible with many materials, especially polymers owing to how the substances interact with other materials- the interaction between gasoline and polystyrene is one such incompatibility interaction easily demonstrated by how quickly the lighter hydrocarbon chains can enter the porous blown polystyrene foam and get between the polymer molecules interrupting the intermolecular forces between the chains and allowing them to slip past one another more easily making the material less solid and more flexible. This also happens when solid polystyrene is exposed to gasoline but it takes much longer as the gasoline can't as easily penetrate the solid material.
“THIS” is a very good video.
Was just watching noaa 42 when this came, love your vids, keep up the good work
Thank you!
@@MiniAirCrashInvestigation OMG YOU REPLIED
Nah, One-Eleven rolls off the tongue much better than "Triple One"
5:04 640 degrees Celsius is 1,184 degrees Fahrenheit, not 882°. 🌡
5:48 Also, each degree Celsius is equivalent to 1.8 degrees Fahrenheit, so an _increase_ of 8 degrees Celsius is an increase of 14 degrees Fahrenheit, not 46°.
Thanks for sharing. 😉👌🏻
I remember flying on Mohawk BAC-111’s as a kid. Sad story. 😞
Hey there! Amazing video as always. However, there were at least two conversion errors with the temperatures from celcius to fahrenheit which i noticed. One time you converted that 8°C temperature difference wrongly, and the other time ~660°C was converted to 800°something F. where it shouldve been ~1.1k°F.
The absolute scariest flight I ever took was one on Mohawk from Albany to Islip. The right engine on the BAC-111 blew up right next to me. We limped into Islip. I refused to take Mohawk or Allegheny again.
You do a great job hope you keep doing these videos because I love aviation
Brilliant video as always.
Another great video! Thank you. I would prefer "Triple one". I hadn't heard of this accident, and this is my first case in which the cause was totally a new one about design/material failure.
Great work with the graphics. I think it's getting better by every video. One minor flaw though, that I noticed. The runway number at the last.
What about calling the 111 "Triple Ace"? Got the idea from a steam locomotive, Timken 1111. It was called "Four Aces".
As usual, excellent job, sir.
BAC1-11. Never a triple one.
The only thing missing is what was done to prevent this re-ocuring, (and at 12:21 where the vehicles come off the roundabout into a forest wall!)
2000 VIEWS AN HOUR. WELL DONE
I'm not sure if a heat sensor would have made much difference. It seems the fire started right after takeoff and spread very quickly.
The pilots would have had to identify the problem right away, realize how serious the emergency was, and immediately start an emergency return to the field, assuming they had that much time.
If they did not, they would have had to immediately make an off field emergency landing, and an emergency would have to be known to be quite serious indeed to do that. The pilots would have had to know they had just a couple of minutes of useful flight control left, and I'm not sure they could have known that.
I pilot will only make an off field emergency landing if they know they can't get to a field. Especially in an airliner.
I know of only one off field landing in a 737 where the plane was not damaged, and you covered that emergency.
Heat sensors could have alerted ground crews to the problem with the valve though.
The greatest "unsolved mystery" involving an in-flight fire has to be South African Airways Flight 295.
@najaB76 I beg to differ. Read the account of United 823.
@@zyglo9826 I hadn't heard of United 823. Now that I've read about it I agree that it's a good unsolved mystery, but I still hold that SA 295 trumps it for two reasons:
1. United 823 happened in an era where aircraft were much less reliable and investigative techniques weren't as sophisticated so a fire of indeterminate origin was more likely as compared to the late 1980s; and
2. There's no suggestion that it was caused by weapons being smuggled in contravention of an international arms embargo - possibly involving a covert nuclear weapons program!
@@najaB76 you made 2 valid points and I believe you’re right based on the reasons you cited. I hadn’t heard of SA 295 until today. Btw, if you want to read more about United 823, I recommend the book “The Last Flight of United Airlines 823” by Tom Dier. Have a great day and happy reading.
There is a slight math error in your presentation, 648 Degree C convert to 1,198.4 Degree F. Thanks for a great presentation, this is still every bit as good as I have seen from you in the past.
Cheers
Another excellent video. Thank you.
It would sound better if you could hear it!
The Boing 727 has one more engine and is considered a noisy airplane yet the BAC-111 can easily drown out the B727!
That is why it no longer flies in the US, Canada, the European Union and several other parts of the world
You have the best videos! Well-researched, great continuity, interestingly told!
I never knew of this Mohawk Airlines accident. I am aware of a crash that happened a few years later one evening around 1971/72 when a Mohawk FH-227 turboprop from KLGA (LaGuardia) to KALB (Albany) crashed short of the runway and ended up plowing into a private house. From the reports I read the accident was related to issues with the propeller pitch control lock.
Did you get a new mic? Your voice sounds especially clear!
A minor personal opinion, but I think "One-Eleven" rolls off the tongue much more easily. I don't think this is a Brit English/Yank English thing, as I have heard the Boeing 747 called the "Seven Forty-Seven" a number of times in the USA. Flew One-Elevens and Seven Forty-Sevens many times in the 1970s and later, and thought they were both a pretty smart way to travel. Both types suffered occasional dreadful disasters, as detailed in your excellent series of videos, but I believe they were very safe overall.
Yes i enjoy all your vidios...thanks
The F-111 was always called the F one eleven. Easier to say.
Well, I'm sure most F-111 pilots called them different and highly colourful names at some time or another. 😁
@@Tindometari Haha maybe. All I know is as far as the RAAF was concerned it was F one eleven. I was fortunate to see one of it's final landings at Amberley Base in Queensland.
Why wasn’t the BAC 111 equipped with a fire sensor in the APU compartment and a warning light in the cockpit? A fire in the APU compartment was certainly a reasonably foreseeable occurrence. These people’s lives were sacrificed so that BAC could save a little money. A very familiar theme.
My dad by all means should have been on this plane, he had to travel regularly from Elmira to dc for work, the only reason he wasn’t was because he was off that week
I know this is gonna be amazing
Quick tiny correction: an 8°C temperature rise is not a 46°F temperature rise, it's about 14°F. Easy mistake to make - when you convert absolute temperatures there's an offset of 32°F to apply because the zero points are different, in addition to the scaling of roughly 9/5. But when converting temperature _changes_ you only need to scale.
There were two other FH-227 accidents about this time which was the death knell to Mohawk plus development in Interstate Highways in NY and MA put an end to short haul aviation.
Correction: at 5:57, 8 Celsius degrees is about 14 Fahrenheit degrees, not 46 Fahrenheit. This is a typical conversion error, since absolute temperature of 8C IS 46 F, but a rise of 8C is only 14F.
Whenever I hear One-Eleven i think of the He-111 which is a slightly different aircraft with a slightly different purpose
I mean its a very slight difference lol
“Slightly”. !!!
Lol
YEAH. ONE GOES FOR IT.
AND THE OTHER PAST IT.
I love your content and I actually subscribe to things that I'm very intimidated of and one is flying and the other is the ocean. Although everyone says that flying is among the safest, I can't help but to watch the videos of air disasters. Which may be few and far between.... but I'm so afraid that it would happen to me up there. No disrespect to the ones that it has happened to. It just seems like there's many air disasters over the years. Although there are probably thousands of flights A-day throughout the world On a daily basis. I'm subscribed to all kinds of flying channels and I never actually fly.. I'm supposed to fly from Arizona to Ohio soon and I'm actually afraid of a pilot making a mistake. Everybody's human, and people make mistakes. I just don't know
Just found this channel and can't stop watching XD
Also how are there no other comments here ...
How you comment in 1 week
Yeah
@@yazikhodayar this is so weird!! Simulated world theory believer now!!!
@@yazikhodayar That is a good question. I have no clue. The video was in my feed a week ago
How How How?????