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Accuracy testing the incredible new Benjamin match grade air rifle pellets. Insane build quality!
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- Опубліковано 19 кві 2024
- Testing the new Benjamin match grade air rifle pellets. is this the return of the legendary old school crosman premiers?
we have 2 different batches to compare,some legitimate uk imports and some nice grey imports so we can try them side by side.
they are super consistent in size and weight and make plenty of power.
they may be a legitimate option to replace the likes of the jsb heavies for field target competition and hunter field target. They could also be a devastating pest control pellet
i used then in the anschutz 9015
air arms xti50 and the airmaks katran aswell as the custon cz barrel in the 9015.
they are a single die pellet so are super consistent in their manufacture and they feel super consistent in their lead content.
Your dedication is truly admiral 👍 We could all feel your frustration at the results. Tomorrow, as they say, is another day 😁
Thanks mate, it was super frustrating as they look and feel great. Ill revisit them in the future once I've had a few more people try them out. I'd love to get them all Grouping without the flyers as they could be mega...could ...🤔
Interesting (frustrating) results, I admire your determination! Great video as always 👍
I tried my best mate.thing is,now I'm even more determined to get them to run as well as they could.. minus the flyers,once they settled in they were mega😭
@@tillysgunstocks I can’t get my head round the fliers or the group’s opening up to be honest mate and you are a lot more experienced than I
Great test thanks, I’ve found this with other brands - visually perfect tin of pellets, with consistent weights- lousy groups, choose a cheap brand of rough looking pellets with a wide spread of weights, shoot really tight. It’s all part of the fun😅
It sure is fun trying them all out if a little frustrating at times 😆
Hello. I tried the ordinary Crosmans in 22 and 177 and eventually decided for whats left of my sanity s sake just to use them out to 25m, at which a kill zone is more than likely. All guns springers and gas rams, and as rats is mainly whats been happening thats fine. Except... I always seem to end up with JSB s as I know they will go true way further than the Crosmans, but here they cost double.I think its not the guns ar pellets I need to work on. Thanks for a wonderful?excruciating video. I can feel your angst here in another country... All the best Keith.
Thanks mate, the older crosman were the pellet to have in the late 80s early 90s and since the jsb and derivatives arrived they have taken over. I'd love to find a modern viable alternative hence the pedantic testing... It gets frustrating at times but I decided it was best left in the vid
Where abouts are you from mate? We've got people from all over the world on here. All because of our rifles.. it's really cool!
Heck of a review. I would have been interested to see a comparison at the same time to say a true match pellet like RWS R10's as an example.
The amount of hours in this one I didn't have the energy to do a side by side 😆
I regularly use the jsb heavies which would be a direct competitor. Today's vid has some groups out at 50m in very similar conditions.itll give you a good idea of what to expect in the wind of a decent pellet 😉
I happen to hear different frequency of the air after firing. Majority of the fliers had different air sound to the ones that were grouping babes. When I heard the different frequency I then knew it was a flyer. How interesting but annoying too. I feel your pain and I really appreciate how hard you worked on this. 💋
The sound frequency we hear on film isn't really that indicative of the actual shot cycle. The microphone on the phone can't really keep up with the cracks. When I see the waveform in the editing software they all look very very similar. I did go back and check after you posted this to be sure 😉
Another great video. The search for the Holy Grail of pellets goes on. Regards, Baz.
I must have a super rifle as the Daystate MK3-4 (MK3 body MK4 internals after update) it loves the .177 JSB EXACT HEAVY PELLETS (10.35 Gr) 4.52mm and from a rest I was getting ten shots in almost one hole groups. I have a picture of the shots on top of each other but cannot upload it here of course. An older rifle that gave me what I wanted for hunting and fun shooting, in the day and still performing as it should. Not sure what or how it will behave when we get the lead pellet ban. Great upload from you as usual.
I shot these pellets the other day and I must say they worked really well. My gun lives JSB shorts big time so didn’t hold out much hope . They work a treat 👍👍
Hi laity, what barrel was it FX? Got the die number of the batch you have? A load of these are heading out to the hft crowd and a few experts to have a play with. I can't pin down why they give the consistent flyers. On paper they are absolutely perfect... 🤔
So, great build quality pellets but very average performance (in the guns tested). I've had the same results with a few pellets. Look great in the tin, no misshapen ones, no debris, very little weight variance, consistent sizes - but can't get decent groups (with my gun). There's a black art to this that none of us has learned yet!
Firstly, great video as always and we all appreciate your time and dedication spent testing!
Had kinda strange results with these in my Air Arms S510TR (LW Barrel). Whilst I did actually find them to be very accurate and consistent, they are far slower than the JSB Heavies and produce less power even though the weights are very similar. JSB are 4.52mm and the Benjamin are 4.5mm (I did notice they rattled around in the magazine far more than the JSB)
It's pretty common for the harder pellets to run slower than a softer lead equivalent. This is one of the reasons why the jsb became so popular when they were Introduced. The rifles could be backed off a fair bit so everything was under less stress.
Even now,the majority of harder pellets will run slower than the jsb 😉
@@tillysgunstocks ah I didn’t actually know that. Thanks so much for the reply! :)
Please ignore everything I said about the Benjamins being accurate and consistent. Had a good time down the range today testing at 50 and 60 yards. They were terrible, I think actually the worst of the bunch along with JSB Exact 8.44gr. (previously I'd only tested at 25y)
Best groupings were JSB Heavies, very very closely followed by H&N Baracuda FT 9.57gr and trailing in 3rd QYS Heavy Streamlines (all .177)
Thank you for that thorough test. Just FYI, my Crosman, Ruger, and Beeman 177 guns do not like ANY Crosman pellets, grouping 1.5" vs 0.25" groups with most German and JSB pellets. So Crosman should be 0.99 cents per 500 and would be great for plinking cans... Which can also be done with a BB gun at a cost of One Cent per TEN shots. Just my findings. But mileage varies. There may be a gun that likes Crosman pellets. My Daisy loves Crosman BBs! Not Daisy BBs... I give credit where it is due. Great video.
Hi mate, I don't know anyone who's managed to get any decent performance from these at our typical sub12 power levels. Maybe they need a bit more speed than we can realistically run with our power limit. Shame as they look so good..
@@tillysgunstocks I find usually that pretty don't pay the bills... Like many popular shiny speakers... Mine are usually BLACK. Not pretty, but sound beautiful. 😄
Don’t beat yourself up mate, you couldn’t have tried any harder. That really was some thorough pellet testing. Just an aside: it would be interesting perhaps to test them in a Benjamin PCP like the Bulldog M357.
Hi mate, I did get a bit frustrated 😆 I can't help it..I love this game and I was so expecting these to do the business. They were spot on in every aspect except downrange performance 🤔
I'd love to get my hands on some of the Benjamin stuff, I've not had much to do with them over the years. There's a little carbine job that looks right up my street...i might see if I can borrow/blag one
back in the 1990's about everyone in the usa had to wash the crosman premier pellets then lubed them. The newer benjamin ones look nice and clean. I have a few tins to test. Maybe lube is the answer. When I have time, I will compare the 10.5, jsb 10.34 and the HN Barracuda's. Will use a hft500, Tm1000 and xti50 for testing. Wish you had somewhere indoors to test or at least use 3 to 4 good wind flags. Thanks for all the videos.
I'd love to know how you get on with them mate, so far I only know of one person getting some reasonable performance,and that's with a chokeless barrel 🤔
Don’t despair m8
Last year I did a similar thing looking for a cheaper alternative to jsb 10.34s
The crossman heavy 10.5 and crossman light at 7.9
Amongst many other brands and types from ranges from 20 to 100 yards
My conclusion was almost the same as you, pretty good groups and a random one that just went where it wanted! Also found this with rws heavy at9.7
I did get one group at 60 yards with the crossman lights that out shot and everything although it had a fair drift!
Love your work !!
It's frustrating at times mate, maybe one day I'll find something absolutely amazing 🤔😉
Great video but I'll stick with my JSB's!
QYS are the pellets i go for bud they are very clean and there is hardly any damaged pellets in a tin give them a go if you haven't already thanks for the vid
I've a bunch of vids up on the qys mate, I've used them a lot over the years. The katran loves the streamline heavies. 😉
Very interesting but equally frustrating! Look forward to finding out how others get on with them.
I feel your pain, those fliers are soul destroying, been there, done that & got the tee shirt as they say, must say the tins are quite nice, but when you got the Crosman box out the horror of a year or so came flooding back, when my son treated me ( for crimbo) 2 boxes of. 20 cal pellets that's 1250 of the little buggers, none of which probed into the breach via the magazine, so I sized every single one of em, taking cresant shaped slithers off most of them, a nightmare, once done they were adequate, anyway, had flier problems in one of my rifles that no matter what I used there was always a few that flew around aimlessly, so, a deep clean, and a pull through with a VERY fine scotchbright piece several times , followed by normal pads with gun oil, improved things significantly, but not TOTAL elimination of the problem.. Great vid though, enjoyed it so much, I put it on instead of watching Columbo and glad I did..
Unexplained flyers are likely due to concentricity. I built a tester for .25 caliber and found many differences between brands.
Nice little test Tommy, have seen this type of pattern so many times over the past 30+ years. Pellets that show glimmers of promise, deliver lots of frustration and disappointment 😂.
My theory is you get a few shots of good performance but the rifling or choke is picking up deposits, which clears after a few garbage shots and then gives you a few more glimmers of promise.
If you shoot longer strings of groups, you may find it shows itself being cyclic, while not being ideal, it does help keep your sanity and offer some form of explanation to appease a methodical mind.
Some pellet, can be very fussy. Introducing lube can also mask any patterns as it's adding another level of variability in the mix, so this has to be done on separate tests. Lube won't take poor matched pellets the holy grail. Keep up the testing mate, it's interesting to see someone else go through my level of lead frustration 😂
Do you want some to test Dave? Super frustrating these ones... I have a little theory about the rounded rims of the skirts post tumbling. That's why I did them vids a few weeks ago in anticipation of these arriving. The tumbled vintage Prems went from slow(ISH) but accurate to faster and inconsistent groups post tumbling. The exact same as these Benjamin which are tumbled at factory.
Have you got a .177 on ticket?
@@tillysgunstocks yes I can do Tommy, the 50m indoor range gives nowhere for fliers to hide behind "maybe wind" :) sent you my number on messenger. Thought I had replied to this earlier, sorry
If you Borescope after changing from softer JSB to Benjamin /Crossman, you will find a buildup that grabs the lead or hardness content change. If you start with a clean barrel, in either case, they both will shoot good IF you get a good tin from JSB. It is when you switch that the group variances occur. Be aware I have many scope videos to back this up.
Last year, over hear in the USA, the Crossman boys gave me about 20 tins of those at a competition. They were all using them in a field tournament, and doing very well. I started testing them, and I found they like the faster speeds. Over hear in the US, we’re aloud up to 20 Ftlbs of energy is Hunter class. That’s just my observation. Maybe that has something to do with it.
Quite possibly mate, going forward I'll ask a few of my mates with high power rigs to try them at the raised speeds.
It's interesting as when I dropped the speeds down a fair way, the groups didn't get worse,or better... Whereas the original boxed premiers will run ,at the shorter ranges of the initial testing absolutely perfectly at a range of lower speeds/power levels.
What's also quite interesting is the amount of guys in the USA building sub12 rigs to compete in ft on the international circuit. 😉
The joys & frustration of pellet testing 😂
🤯🤯 it's mind bending at times mate. They look so nice... Hopefully some of my mates will get some better results than me eh
If the size and weight are consistent then other dimensions might be off such as differences in the distance between skirt and head will affect consistency could be fixed if you can adjust the harmonics of your barrel. Or slight variations in the thickness of the skirt could be throwing them off it could be something only measured with a micrometer and not be perceptible to the eye not much you can do about that.
Definitely an inconsistency somewhere. Although at this point you’re flogging a dead horse.
Feel your frustration. When something appears to be almost "perfect", then behaves inconsistently, for no apparent reason. I hope you can do a follow-up when your mates have fired a number through their rifles.
Hi mate, yeah absolutely infuriating at times😆 they felt like they should be perfect in at least one of my barrels. I will revisit them for sure as I can't overlook the decent tolerances they are built too
Admire you're determination, I'd have binned them earlier.
Everything you checked the only thing you cannot check (or can you) is check the lead quality.
Pellet testing is so frustrating at times.
My three .177 all love JSB 10.34 yet my .22 versions of same rifles prefere Air Arms pellets.
Hi mate. I was so sure they would eventually tighten up. On paper they are perfect. I spent way too long testing them and I'm still sure that in the right barrel they may be mega. Just not.one of my known good barrels... Infuriating for me,but I'll send some out to my mates and report back on how they run 😉
I wish Benjamin could bring back the Original Benjamin pump air gun I owned over 50 years ago when I was ten years old. It was extremely accurate, thin, short and light weight, perfect for a child and teenager. Sheridan put a stock way too large on the Benjamin and ruined it.
That's interesting and frustrating very like my auto correct. Something is different somewhare once and a while.
Reminds me of my s510 before I fitted the reg.
Love your persistency, I have experienced this phenomena over years of experimenting with a lot of different ammo. Don't think I would pay that sort of money for them, to be honest.
It's frustrating when it happens mate. Luckily I've not had it many times before.usually one of my barrels will fly. I'm arranging some to go out to a bunch of my mates and some other experts so hopefully we can find out what's going on in time.😉
I don't know if this helps, but I had problems like this when I fitted Walther barrels to my previously perfect Ruger 10/22 LR and Theoben Rapid 7 .22 pcp. I had problems like you are having. After weeks of frustration I fathomed out that the machining tolerances between actions and barrels were way off, my tightening of fitting was wrong. Every magazine fed in and every cocking moved the barrel in the action. If you have fitted new barrels or removed and refitted barrels then that could be the problem
I would suggest taking a Trobb sizer and purposely sizing the pellets very small to see if the removed lines are consistent around the whole head. I would bet a dollar or 2 that you will find an uneven line, which means concentricity. Just my 2 cents
HI mate, interestingly I've rodded a few through sections of barrel. The rifling marks on the heads once they've gone through a walther choke are (by eye and magnifying glass) pretty concentric, However... The little peened rim on the back of the skirts from the tumbling process occasionally show a slight eccentricity. Currently that is where I'm seeing the only real variation between pellets. Otherwise they are surprisingly consistent in the manufacture, I just can't see how the tumbling process can be controlled accurately enough.🤔
Not really sure honestly,I've lost all enthusiasm with them to go much further and waste more time
😉
@@tillysgunstocks Hello sir
I paid a considerable amount of money to have a tube and pushpin made to hold the 25 caliber pellet so that I could put that against a and check the run out of the Pellet the out of aroud run out of the Pellet and what I found was JB and FX pellets was astonishing. The new JTS were almost perfect , but again that hard lead messes up the barrels
That's a bit bazaar behaviour from the pellets, could feel the frustration building up in you with this one. You are looking at such fine tolerances on multiple aspects to get the ideal result, that although the pellets look good, there may be a slight deformation not too visible to the eye, that the barrels on your rifles don't like. Certainly showed some good dedication to the testing.
If there was ever a pellet on paper that would be perfect,it's these. I also only had one single slightly squished skirt in around 800 shots.
I reckon it has to be related to the tumbling process. That's why I did the other vid a few weeks back ,in anticipation of these arriving. If you see the pellet in the thumbnail ,you can see as per my tumbled ones that it has a slightly rounded end to the skirt. It might be causing the odd flyer here and there.
I gave it my best try mate and had good conditions throughout the short range tests. Gutted..☹️
I'm just waiting for Tillys Pellets to hit the market.
I've been thinking about it 😆
@@tillysgunstocks wish you would at a sensible price
This is why I trust this channel. I know I’m being told a load of crap.
Cheers bud.
Ill always say it ,as it is mate. But... With pellet testing, it's always a bit of a lottery. It's entirely possible your rigs will run these absolutely perfectly. I'm going to send a load out to a couple of ex world champs and a few ballistic experts to see if we can come up with an explanation.
One of my mates has just said he couldn't get a decent group out of his ones, despite (like my ones) having a really consistent build. He gave some to his mate. Who runs a chokeless barrel and is raving about them. I'm finding out some more details 😉
Ill revisit them when we get a bigger test sample size 🤯
Some good videos and interesting results to come. Great getting a wider range of riffles and shooters to give em go.
Keep up he good work
They look different to boxed prem's, skirt looks longer to me.
Overall I'm not too impressed, pity that, I used to love boxed Prem's. I'll be sticking with FTT 4.52s
The old 10.5 heavy prems were never any good at 12 ft lbs despite how well the early ones were made. They arn't stable. They were much better at FAC levels approx 850 fps.
I've a few lads lined up to try these mate in their fac rigs. I'll suggest giving them a try around the 850fps mark 😉
Possibly even abit faster than 850. The Americans loved them for FT as they could run them much faster than us before the quality dropped off.
@@JohnChopping it'll give us a starting point to work from for sure 😉 these are interesting as they are still marketed as a field target pellet and as I'm sure you well know, at international level nowdays it's all shot at sub12.
I've got a load of guys in the states now that are really getting into the sub12 stuff.its amazing how it's all come full circle eh
be nice to see if they work in a springer , tx or a hw
97🤔👍🏻
Ill send some to a few of my mates who shoot springers, it'll be interesting to find out for sure...
I’m waiting on a couple of tins to try out this week.
Please let us know how you get on with them mate. On paper these are almost perfect...
Crackin vid pal.. i feel your pain with the fliers 😅
I think these pellets need to go straight in the f@@k it bucket
Incredibly frustrating for sure mate. They are perfect on paper...
You should have put up those smoke cans they might of helped in between shots.. excellent vid as always.
Hi mate, I had thought about it actually... All the shorter range testing though was done in very favourable conditions,that's why I ended up spending numerous afternoons to get as consistent results as i could. The 50m it was windy ofcourse... 😉
@@tillysgunstocks no worries these things are here to test us 🙂
Lead is too cool/keep tin warm?chem hand warmers break pack!
Thanx for the video, cheers 8-)
Anything equivalent to the Crosman 7.9's? About to come back into the sport and got on really well with the 7.9's but only have one or two boxes left.
Do pellets age?
Could you share the chrono details? I'm assuming that the rifles you used are 12ft? As these pellets are originally for the US market, I'm wondering if shooting these things fast "900ft+" there would be a difference. If you got to these speeds already, then I share your frustration.
I've tried a number of speeds around the 700fps mark typical of what I would run the boxed old premiers at. This is the strange thing as the boxed Prems are worse in almost every aspect of the build quality ,yet are significantly better down range 🤔
The only noticeable variation on the Benjamin's is the slight bulge around the rim of the skirt from the tumbling process. I did my tumbling vid in anticipation of these arriving and the results were very similar.
So far the only person I've heard that is getting decent performance is using a chokeless barrel so there's something to go on...
With field target at International level all adopting 12ftlb it'd be a shame if they needed the extra speed tbh.🤔
excellent video, maybe the problem is harmonics. Greetings
Maybe mate🤔 but so far very few people in the UK are having much success with them, in guns that shoot the old and new premier's very well. It's all a bit strange...
Bore/ scope
Sizing inconsistency is an option
I reckon it's the slightly bulged rear edges of the skirts where they are rumbled.the heads are very consistent but the rear of the skirts does have some variation. Much like the rumbled pellets I did a few weeks ago. I did that vid in anticipation of these arriving and it all adds up kinda 😆🤔
I was tempted to try these in my FX rifles. Everything says accurate to me until you actually put them through a rifle.
Ill stick with my QYS streamlined.
Hi mate,if you do try some I'm sure we would all love to know how they run in the FX liners. Both batches I've got here are tighter tolerances than the qys I use in the katran.that likes streamline heavies... Yet these consistent flyers drove me mad. I bet some barrels just love them🤔
@@tillysgunstocks I'll order some mate & let you know.
Head size?
Did you run a Chrony for a string where you got flyers? Did the flyers come out at a different speed?
Different guns should've ruled it out, & i'm guessing your kit is well dialled in - but maybe they're really sensitive to a change in pressure/power? if your reg or hammer is just a fraction inconsistent - maybe its throwing them off?
They were super consistent over the Natechrony 🫣
I ran a bunch of strings at various speeds and nothing out of the ordinary atall. I need to catch up with you actually later on regards the chronos now I've spent a fair bit of time I've had some ideas...
check your email :)
I am out of my deapth here so just my mussing You said these are a hard pellet could this make a difference with the head or skirt sizes?
Absolutely. It rightly or wrongly (but over years of experience) seems that the harder pellets are much more dependent on a well matched barrel. The softer pellets certainly appear to be a little more forgiving.
The bore diameter is a few microns tighter on the cz barrels in the 9015 over the factory anschutz barrel. I can immediately feel that on loading.
On paper these pellets should be perfect. Super consistent in size,weight and build.make good power and super consistent over the chrono too... Really frustrating 😆
They may look very well made but are the skirts all square? To check you would need to put them on a rotating table under a magnifier
Interestingly mate. These pellets are tumbled at factory. That's why I did the recent tests on tumbling pellets. There's a small bit distinct ring around the rear edge of the skirt. Exactly the same as I (we) saw in my tumbled ones. It rounds off the rear edge a little and may be compromising the seal in the barrel. However they were super consistent over the chrono 😭
If the skirt is off square it wouldn't effect the velocity but it would mean the skirt is exiting the barrel unevenly causing a small yaw
@@petergoodman7805 yep agreed mate. I've enough to do some further investigation. The flyers are mostly only a small (but annoying)deviation from the main groups and that would be indicative of that bit of yaw,either on loading or the firing cycle. I wonder if collecting some shot ones would show any eccentricity on the rifling marks on them
It's an interesting video loving the in depth review. To prove yaw try you favourite jsb heavies and purposely file the skirt uneven and do a test
Interesting video, but grammatically it's those flyers, not them flyers.
did you try different fps?
HI mate, yes in the 9015 I tried a lot of different FPS settings. All pretty much the same result. I even dropped it right down to the typical speeds that the br boys run the h&n for maximum accuracy and still can't get rid of the flyers. I just can't work it out. They look and feel absolutely perfect...
@@tillysgunstocks
run some through a sizer … ??
Heavies are my go to in FT and both BR classes
Test and sort by HEAD SIZE!! Not Weight ..
Who is the uk seller..thanks..
You'll have to Google it mate. Yt don't like links to shops ☹️
@@tillysgunstocks found um..begins. with a I......lol.....hunter.....lol
😊
Consitany is the key is the key. Try lots, then stick to it. I found wasp worked for me.