MSI COPIUM: What are TL's odds?! WHAT IF TSM came back to LCS!? feat. Raz | Hotline League 319
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- Опубліковано 31 тра 2024
- Follow Travis on Twitch: / travisgafford
Support: linktr.ee/tgisupport
00:00:00 Intro - What's Chengdu like?
00:12:20 rawnblade's take: this unpredictable MSI is the West's best chance to go far in a while
00:22:55 tomas's take: NA's problem is lack of commitment
00:40:45 ppdoc shouts out Raz and thinks TL has a chance to compete and win against T1
00:57:57 Nox's take: If DL is correct and IMT and TSM are merging, the community should shun them
01:17:55 shawn's take: Don't put Faker in the Hall of Fame just yet
01:33:36 Zemelci's take: If TL manages to beat T1, they have a decent chance of winning MSI
01:45:43 Outro - Ігри
00:00:00 Intro - What's Chengdu like?
00:12:20 rawnblade's take: this unpredictable MSI is the West's best chance to go far in a while
00:22:55 tomas's take: NA's problem is lack of commitment
00:40:45 ppdoc shouts out Raz and thinks TL has a chance to compete and win against T1
00:57:57 Nox's take: If DL is correct and IMT and TSM are merging, the community should shun them
01:17:55 shawn's take: Don't put Faker in the Hall of Fame just yet
01:33:36 Zemelci's take: If TL manages to beat T1, they have a decent chance of winning MSI
01:45:43 Outro
"Shawn's take.
It's Sean
Seanatonin
The only way I’d ever welcome TSM back is if Andy was out
TL>IG is the bigger upset for sure even if TL upset T1. IG went 9-1 in group stage after 3-0ing world semis and finals. Hell they even 3-0d lpl speing finals! We were in the IG era. People thought they were the new t1. They stomped t1 in 16 mins at this msi! No one stood a chance except t1 in a game that didnt matter. Sure 2019 tl was a super team. 2018-19 IG was on track to become the best team of all time and looked unbeatable at msi. T1 might also be the reigning world champs, but they havent even won their own region. They have been provenly beatable domestically and internationally. 2019 IG literally looked unbeatable.
Anyone who watched IG throughout those years knows as good as they were, they always had the propensity to play to their competition. That split they lost the LGD and BLG in-season and would play some disgusting games if their competition was lower like Vici. We called it Happy Games at MSI off of a Ning interview, and that became a meme. If you were to tell me that Impact/Xmithie/Jensen/DL/Core I'd def call it the biggest upset at the time, but understood how it could conceivably happen.
Especially in the context of how this TL performed vs TES, the TL players this split were not regarded as the best domestically. APA was at times considered the worst, and the others outside of Impact weren't considered top 2/3 until playoffs.
@@Razleplasm that's somewhat fair, but they never happy gamed when it mattered. And it clearly mattered at msi.
@@seamonster175 yeah thats also very fair
only reason g2 won msi was tl tbh, IG would've demolished them
Wow Raz and Cubby with pretty fkn good predictions for the G2 game! Right on fellas
Let's be fair. Hans Sama and MikyX smashing JackeyLove and Meiko on KogMaw Braum vs Draven Renata wasn't on anyones bingo card.
Raz is 100% right about the Hall of Legends. Good take
As an NA fan, I want G2 to win. Holy crap. I hope TL beats T1, it'll be interesting to see all champions fighting for championship.
Well they definitely SHOULD have beat them in game 1 and 2 but I'm still really happy with Yeon's performance especially.
I actually agree with Travis. Faker being first is not an exception to any rule. They are free to do whatever they want. Would I have waited till he retired? Yes. I think Faker's retirement might be the single most impactful moment in league esports, but still I dislike this infatuation with using traditional sports as the metric for what League should be and do
I think TL has maybe 3% of beating T1
First?
Thank you Travis for the show, your hard work is much appreciated
Can't wait for a TL to clap T1 tonight!!
It's weird to watch these episodes after the match they're talking about has already happened. Like I wonder how much Cubby's take on G2 changes seeing that not only did they beat TES, they completely crushed them. Like at no point did it ever look like TES might win a game. Obviously they're still not favored to win the whole thing, but you can't say it's a ridiculous idea anymore.
I don't think anyone woulda predicted Hans Mama became JKL's father during this series. I watch the tape and give my thoughts going in, not always gonna be right but that's part of the fun.
G2 just 3-0'd the team that 3-0'd TL, and TL is playing T1 that went 5 games that G2 could have won, I think I will need a heavy dose of copium.
HLL is the only esports related podcast that I consume on a weekly basis, i don’t use Reddit so it’s the only time I get a glimpse into fan sentiment, and I really enjoy the show.
But Travis man, you gotta stop having a knee jerk hate response every time someone mentions a traditional sports league. There are plenty of cogent comparisons that can be made that you shut down because you yourself don’t watch them. The audience will understand the references
I’ve been really enjoying the MSI games! Love listening to hotline league ❤
Also a respond to the question to raz about faker and hall of fame , and people getting angry about other players not included even tho thay are still playing , sure meiko deft are great players ,but in No way they are close to the greatness of Faker , Faker troughout his whole career he has being the best in all metrics of being great and by mile , he has the highest peak , most international titles most domestic titles , insane longevity , i mean the man made 6 world finals that's about half the entire worlds history finals , he made 4 Msi finals about half, if there is an exception to hall of fame it should be Faker , and im pretty sure ppl won't be mad about it.
I don't think I would have wanted to root for Team Liquid if they replaced almost every person except CoreJJ. The fact they kept APA & Yeon meant replacing Pyosik & Summit. The pick of Impact and Gen Umti is probably the best choice. Reliable in Top Lane, Teachable in Jungle, and Growth in Mid and Carry. All lead by Core. This is amazing!!
umti is a veteran, he's not teachable at this point. and impact handles the shotcalling after the early-mid game.
@@jal-kx6tm Umti isn't teachable? Bro, go back and watch some interviews. He is almost a loose cannon all the time, and CoreJJ helps reel him back in. That's not teachable? Literally fixed that up from early spring split to making becoming LCS Spring Champs.
Sure, Impact can shotcall early-mid. The team was built around CoreJJ. "Lead by Core"
@@chrisgaspar5408 umti still plays like he did in lck, aggressive early game, lot of ganks. nothing about his play shows that he learned something new. the only thing he said was different was that he has winning lanes now sometimes. he's no rookie, he has his ideas about what he wants to do in a game and that hasn't changed.
My problem is that D&D is on Mondays. Very grateful for the opportunity to consume this content during my day off. Thanks for making painting my new computer room go by more quickly. One comment on perhaps the least controversial subject, i wanted to call out Cubby's take on the Hall of Legends. Firstly, hard agree that players should be retired before induction. Secondly, on the subject of money, Cubby hit it directly on the head: think of the LEAD-UP to Fakers induction. THAT'S where to make an exception, and only one of scale. So many skins, a month long celebration, go nuts!
I just wanna say that the reason that LCS has lost ALL of its potential to compete internationally against the top 10-15 teams in the world is because of the leagues franchise model.
The only reason league even became a big thing back in the day was because of player made teams popped up , look at CLG, TSM, AaA etc they all popped up because players like Regi , HotshotGG and their teammates wanted to make a team and compete as a official team and without them doing so LCS , LEC, LCK, LPL and all other leagues would never have existed.
We need to remove the franchise system, have a secondary league in every region where u can be RELEGATED to if u underpreform. Relegation is key in order to get teams to actually spend money on rosters and take the team serious cause noone wants to be relegated and the same thing goes for the 2nd tier leaguef, promotion up from LCS Tier 2 (whatever u wanna call it) into LCS is the only reason any team would wanna comitt to compete at all.
There has to be some rules made against an org having 2 teams in the same league tho and if their Tier 2 team would be advancing to Tier 1 it has to be sold off to some other org or forfeit their promotion spot. (obv smarter ppl then me can make up the rules and how it should work but the idea is still solid)
Thanks!
Imagine how bad it’s gotten for TSM if they let IMT merge w/ them 💀
More like, "have to merge with IMT to remain viable" 😬
Aight i gotta see if i can do a hot take soon about topics touched on the NA commitment section.
1:18:00 I'm with Shawn. Highkey, it doesn't matter if Faker is the first person in or not, because highkey him STILL PLAYING after the thing is created is a merit in and of itself. He's not done yet and you can't commemorate his career without his career being over yet. Also, there are plenty of worthy players that should be in and delaying the thing makes 0 sense. Doing an introductory class now isn't a bad thing.
raz's face when he got shouted out was too cute
I was a TSM since 2013 (not one of the obnoxious ones) and would 100% not root for them. No way. The damage is done and they’ve lost me as a fan. I’d consider coming back if regi was gone and they seemed to be a much better org overall, but that’s a real big pipe dream lol.
Even the haters are admitting that TSM coming back to LCS would be a good thing for the league lol
It's more of a comment on how delusional and crazy their fans are. Because any bump in the league viewership would be those absolutely brain dead fans.
True. No-one watches NA anymore and if TSM return it'll give us something to laugh at again. Watching retired EU players isn't enough of a reason to watch NA on its own.
I personally think it would be pathetic if Riot allowed them back. If they do it will signal to me just how pathetic this product is and I’d personally stop watching 😮
Why would anyone care about TSM?? It is not like their going to announce they used black mage to make Berg, Dyrus and DL 19 again to join the roast
@@scotthenderson3519TSM viewership was still high without those players.
Let's go TL!
What's the problem if they release a botw upgrade for switch 2, as long as it's free-$10 at most upgrade for people who already own the game. I have several friends who are holding out for switch 2 and would definitely buy a "botw remaster". No harm to us right?
My mind is telling me T1
But my heart wants TL
Copium
cubby's take sure aged well
TL coulda 3-1'ed T1 if they clutch that game 2 with Yeon popping off on Samira. I swear if they win that game things go differently
Don't worry, you're core audience is aging along with you.
IMT for TSM is the best brand value swing possible in the league. IDK how much u don't like the brand it can only be positive from a viewers perspective.
Nice Kevin Hart reference lmao
Seeing you guys gloat at LCS first seed beating LEC second seed as if it was this insane accomplishment tells a lot about your expectations for your league jesus christ.
When you think of NBA goats, you think of MJ, Kobe, even Lebron. But none of them were the first inductee. I guarantee 99% of people dont know who the first inductee is, I dont. However, not putting Faker in right now is now is not disrespectful because we ALL know his position in the HoF is 1000% guaranteed when he does finally retire. As Raz said, let people like Smeb, Uzi, Mata, Bengi, Xpeke, erc get the first spots. Does being first inductee vs 10th truly matter, we all know hes the goat regardless
I'm from the future and I can tell you that T-won and TLost
For the love of god and all that's holy, please don't let TSM back in LCS
52:35 not a chance. T1 are reigning World Champions, but they are the 2nd seed from Korea and they've been slumping the whole tournament. If TL won against T1, it wouldn't be more impressive than G2 vs RNG 2018 Worlds QFs (3rd seed from EU taking down the tournament favorite en route to the Grand Slam) or TL vs IG 2019 MSI (reigning World Champions that, unlike this T1, were looking unstoppable after a 9-1 groups stage). The fact that some people are even considering that TL has a chance is pretty telling.
I don't rly watch international because it's always at 2:00am and we always lose.
Doubting my boy again 🤦🏻♀️ #tlwin 🎉
RAZ'S TALKING ABOUT MACRO?? WOW, NA IS REALLY FUKED
NA > LCK
I kinda agree with the caller shunning players that join the TSM/IMT roster. It reminded me of the line in the sand Travis drew about not going to the sports tournament in Saudi Arabia. I think the players should have the balls to call bs on these orgs and decide not to play with them and support their comeback into the ecosystem. Doesn’t matter that the opportunities are scarce - these are not the opportunities anyone wants to see. Fuck that.
So should we shun the players that go to play in Saudi Arabia during the esports World Cup? Cause there’s a few NA teams that will be participating
Shunning the players is idiocy. They already have to put up with owners shutting down Tier 2, favoring imports over native players, and not bothering to hire proper coaches and now they're supposed to not take a job with a team? C'mon...
@@Redlightnlng not the same thing. Those players are already on a team that has made the decision for them. Of course not.
@@dpb22 You’re too emotional for a conversation. Tone it down. I appreciate your opinion.
Travis, sorry to say but you are definitely not correct on the hall of fame take. In every sport it is understood that hall of fame is a celebration of players who have ended their careers. First never matters in it.
Rare bad take from raz. No one cares about how t sports work, if you put anyone but faker in first its an insult. No one else is even worthy of consideration.
The game is just straight up better with Lane Swaps being a thing, it sucked when it went away because it felt like they only wanted the game to be played one way. Now you can actually avoid bad matchups again. Really hope they don't do something crazy again to make Lane Swaps unviable again because it feels like game has new life breathed back into it after most players thought for years that it was no longer possible after they did the armor change to some towers.
wish we had a g2. team is so fking goated
No one wants TSM back in the league.
Could you guys please stop typing while other people are talking? The clacking is very distracting >
Do you have a timestamp for this? I didn't realize there was typing being picked up
@@TravisGafford 46:00 very easy to hear between pauses
@@brandonfung7910 ty
I love Raz, but personally this was unwatchable with his audio
Travis not understanding how hall of fame works is wild. You shouldn’t have a player actively playing to be inducted. No matter how good they are. That’s why you don’t see Lebron in the nba hall of fame
But why does it need to be that way?
@@TravisGafford riot always wanted to more like traditional sports to be separate than other esports. I agree with them on having this hall of fame to showcase player’s achievements that came before the newer players. It’s honoring the past and with that you can’t have an active player. If faker gets inducted now, but wins more accomplishments, then you have to keep changing. I would recommend to do a hall of fame class each year and wait until faker retires to have the first class
@@ikranken49 I think modeling themselves after traditional sports has widely been a failure, and I don't take the answer of "well traditional sports do it so we have to do it" as a valid answer
@@TravisGafford no it is for this instance. If faker and others get inducted at same time, it could affect stat records as well. If faker is 3rd in a stat but someone else id rated 1st, then it would still be possible for faker to take that spot away from them. Hall of fames are about the final accomplishments and stats. Everyone knows lebron has higher stats than Jordan, but he won’t be in until he retires because his stat can still grow unlike Jordan’s
@@ikranken49 you think we carve these stats into some sort of concrete or something? Just update a website
G2 is the only good western team capable of competing with Asian teams. Rest should not be at these events.
I'd be happy if TL won against T1 but it ain't happening unless T1 plays the worst games they have played all tournament.
A little exaggerated considering NRG giga stomped the same exact G2 players currently on the roster. Not saying they are bad but to say they're the only western team that should go international is just delusional.
@dookiehead-ll4jw they've improved since then. NRG hasn't beaten an Eastern team yet. Would you say Rogue is a contender internationally , they beat G2 twice while being bottom standing?
@@user-hj4vw5kf5h I didn't make the argument that NRG is still a contender or just because a team beats G2 that they are not sure where that presumption came from. I'm simply stating that saying no other western team should compete internationally is a bit ridiculous.
00:57:57 Most sane TSM hater. Also Cubby is extremely rude and I hope he learns manners at some point.
T1 gonna stomp TL tomorrow..and na goes to airport
Keep coping lil bro. NA will stomp per usual
Hall of fame take is ridiculous, what matters is either you have the accomplishments or you don't, there's no need to wait some arbitrary amount of time to recognize that.
You shouldn’t be an active player to be inducted.
@@ikranken49 Why not ? Because other sports have this rule ? Fuck the other sports, esport is a different culture.
Na > EU lol xd This aged poorly
They're talking head to head NA vs EU recently has swung over to NA right now
@@dookiehead-ll4jw It hasn't even swung. NRG beat G2 at worlds, but EU won the other 2 equal seed matches at worlds. BDS swept GGS and FNC beat C9. And now NA is making a victory lap over their champion winning a Bo5 against the biggest Jeckyll & Hyde second seed in EU history, while having neither of their teams look competitive in even a single game against the Asian teams.
@@dookiehead-ll4jw It was 5-5 this worlds. It was 5-3 last worlds for NA but thats because of MAD being fourth seed, which NA didn't have, giving them free wins. Overall in 2022 EU performed better and won vs better team.
Well looks like the copium for EU was splattered on the wall harder then G2 was by T1 lol
Travis here's the truth. Steve doesn't believe they're winning because of the NA talent. The truth is they're winning because of impact, corejj, umti. Imagine TL with a good adc and mid. Now you understand why they want international talent.
Like imagine TL with berserker and Jojo or berserker and quid. They'd be godlike.
@@CarlosCarlangas How is the team with Jojo and Berserker doing at MSI right now?
@@NotAUtubeCelebexceptionally well! They haven't lost a game yet
You're ignoring the whole premise of the argument which is APA is bad and Jojo or import would be better@@NotAUtubeCeleb
No way TL beating T1 not bc they cant but bc most of TL are asians and asians like to play meta not offmeta west cant beat east in meta picks not just yet anyways GoodLuck atleast i hope its not a stomp.
The only way I can see TSM coming back is if Reggie just sold the TSM trademark to Immortals. I can't imagine Reggie swallowing his pride and coming back to the league.