Debating Yanis Varoufakis: Is techno feudalism another name of financial capitalism?
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- Опубліковано 20 вер 2024
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In this podcast, we discussed with Yanis Varoufakis his latest book “Technofeudalism: What Killed Capitalism." We started off by asking him what his main thesis was. He argued that our current state of the political economy resembles feudalism than capitalism since the big businesses of the day, from tech giants like Google, Amazon, and Microsoft, to private equity firms like Black Rock and Vanguard rely on rent, instead of profit. We probed him further about the difference between rent and profit. From there, we entered a friendly debate about whether feudalism is a better choice than capitalism, and what are its implications for our politics. Our closing segment was on the impact of techno-feudalism on geopolitics. Yanis provided his insightful explanation of the Cold War against China based on the rise of new Tech giants in China which have challenged the unfettered hegemony of the US big businesses like never before. Last but not least, we asked him the way out of technofeudalism, to which he stressed the need for an internationalist Left.
Yanis Varoufakis is a professor of economics, a former Greek Finance Minister, an author of several books, and the co-founder of the grassroots political movement DiEM25.
#cloudcapital #elonmusk #capital #technofeudalism
Love Yanis' work, have read And the Weak Suffer What They Must? and also Talking To My Daughter About Economics. The technical side of economics as a subject is so bewildering and divorced from everyday reality that it's refreshing to hear it from Yanis in a moral and philosophical context.
Good to be in touch with you. Solidarity.
@@IndiaGlobalLeft Likewise. I need to watch more on this channel.
Youre an impeccable critical interviewer and your non western perspective helps a great deal in adding nuanced perspective to these euro-centric thinkers. Maybe techno-feudalism, the Dutch VOC and the british east india company were all some sort of violent legal-feudal apparatus? Great interview!
Thanks Solomon, please stay in touch
Most wonderful show on capitalism I have seen in the rent times. Mainstream media cannot produce these shows because they don't read.
Thanks a lot
I always enjoy to listen to Yanis's critical mind (despite having different views) as it helps to expand and reshape my own thinking and own potential answers. The questions posed can be tightened up and posed in sharper terms.
Hello Lady Urdinov. We wish you a lot of success in Your future Work.
We know sinds long time your Father's Art. Like Father like Daughter? All the Best from Belgium and France. ❤ 👋
Thanks!
Thank you. Appreciate it.
One of the best discussions with Yanis, thank you!
Glad to be able to see this amazing interview
Thanks Aveng. Glad to see you too. Stay in touch. Love from India.
Excellent discussion, thank you Yanis and Jotishman.
Great interview, thanks, I was missing your presentations. Greetings from Tucson 🌵
Thanks a lot. Stay in touch!
I takim to sposobem powstał kolektywizm o którym wspominałam nie tak dawno.
Happy to see my friend after long go
Wow! I remember people at Univ saying "get your real estate on the net". Now I understand EXACTLY why?
I am what you would call a right-winger. I don't believe in gender pronouns, in collectivism, in a dominant bureaucracy, and I believe that each level has its proper functions, from the individual, the family, to the community, the state and international meeting spaces.
Why I am saying this is because the left and the right are fundamentally divided today, much more so than in the past. I believe that this is fatal. What Yannis V. calls techno-feudalism is what we right wingers call the WEF elites and they are the most immediate threat to humanity as a whole. That means that we have a common enemy and if we want to overcome this challenge, we need to stand together. this doesn't need to stop us from disagreeing on other issues, but let's just stop letting them divide us on what is the most important question today !
The interview would have been better if the host interrupted less.
Very great discussion!
Loving your channel. Excellent discussions. Thankyou.
brilliant #YanisVaroufakis 👌 as always!
This is what happens, over time, when political sociopaths are afforded adult status in that society. Political sociopathy; a willingness to do harm for the sake of opportunity, social capital, hierarchy, profit and/or pleasure. We fail to challenge the myth that the laws of nature are conducive to the laws of creating a healthy society and that the toleration of political sociopathy is not a prevention to achieving optimum health of a society. Society is a social construct attempting to utilize specialization to enhance provisioning. All governance of a society will degrade into sociopathy at rates determined by the tolerance for political sociopathy in policy creation/ adjudication/ enforcement, also the adherence to a best practices policy that operates from the principal of the general welfare of all and the whole simultaneously, then there is the quality of its consensus seeking/building practices and its adherence to a fullness and accuracy of documentation of policy creation and implementation.
Wonderful! Second stream I've watched and this time I'm gladly impressed with the conversation, the questions Jyotishman opened out. You and Yanis open and represent the salient features of our economy. I am become curious: will you have a weekly show? Some years ago I learned MM theory--from the early theorizers and presenters so I have that model's language in mind. Has Janis or Jyotishman brought that discourse into the discourse of the techno feudelism. That would be a good show.
Excellent analysis of technofuedalysm that pricisely illuminates the new rent seekers or parasitic bad actors .
Very interesting concept.....CLOUD RENT!! just this makes the interview worth It!!
Kudos from Spain!
Originally the PC was to increase freedom to empower the individual
But now with cloud although ironically distributed it’s also centralized
The empire strikes back
It's not post capitalist. Marx predicted it. It's just capitalism.
Thanks
Thanks a lot.
"we need to reclaim the means of production and the means of computation and the means of behaviorial modification use these apps for the common good." Yes. How to implement that from the bottom ( retired wage worker here) up?
Yanis Varafoukis is a visionary
So the new "Magnets" are owning INFRASTRUCTURE on the net and there are No borders, so the Internet gives them huge rents or subscriptions.
In our real world the Government own most "common" infrastructure 😮
Is there a reason why real infrastructure is allowed to "die" and is that why we look to Satellites instead.
We still need homes, food, clothing.
I'll have to buy the book!
I'm not sure what good it does to call our current system "techno-feudalism" instead of capitalism. It might enable defenders of capitalism to blame something other than capitalism when our current system fails, allowing them to say that it isn't capitalism that failed, but whatever you want to call our system. Thing is, no matter whether you call the current system "techno-feudalism" or anything else, it's still the logical outcome of capitalism, it's an extension of it, it's one with it, it's what capitalism led to, so it should take all the blame and we should learn our lesson.
*uckerbird is not an innovator. we did all that stuff on the bulletin boards before he was born, he just used the faster processor when public money was spent to develop it.
1:15 "yanis what the fuck is".... 🤣. I had to rewind a few times right there.
Your questions were gold though. Kudos bro! You picked his brain well
Thanks for stimulate the further digging into why the distinction of this Techno Feudalism from Capitalism with the old feature of an anti-capitalist layer that controls finance
Thank you Yannis
is Yanis warnig and at the same time waving the fence post ... with the consequence that institutional investors quickly "jump" over to Renminbi Yuan
Capitalism is the creation and development of economic hierarchy with competition as a principle and as a hypocrisy simultaneously. (The safest place in a hierarchy is at the top.)
If capitalists owning a marketplace heralds the end of capitalism,
1. How is that any different to my privatised local market building other capitalist and sole traders rent space in and work from in effect giving a cut of their profits in rents to another capitalist as has been the case for many decades via many more examples than just this, before the internet was ever a thing.
2. The definition of capitalism, its key difference to all other systems that it does not share with them, is the method by which it organises people to produce goods and services
a) Master>slave - slave system
b) Lord > serf - Feudalism
c) Employer> Employee - capitalism
How is it not capitalism, if this (C) is still the manner in which people are still employed for the majority of the economy.
I am not asking / stating this to defend capitalism, I am stating this because by claiming we are under some system other than capitalism and writing a damned book on it, will give those who love capitalism ammunition to be able to say we just need to return to "a better capitalism" and they will be able to say that due to this "its not capitalism" argument no matter who it comes from or in what form. I mean sure I will read the book, I respect Yanis greatly, but lovers of capitalism will just hold it up in the air and claim it backs their argument up for returning to a "better regulated capitalism" which to me is nothing more than repeating history while expecting a different result, as we have been doing since 1929 when we should have accepted this was a crap system and moved beyond it.
I don't see techno feudalism, I only see the inevitable results of top down systemically unstable anti democratic physics defying perpetual growth capitalism, somewhere between its late stage and death as far as the developed world is concerned but given the rapidly collapsing ecology and the rapidly shifting climate, somewhere between late stage and death is also a pretty apt description of all complex life on the surface of this world presently.
If you follow his stuff he's never hidden he's looking to improve capitalism. In the terrible state that Greece finds itself, his main talking point for the past elections was to go for a CBDC (which his cloud capitalists will obviously dominate) . He just throws in some Marxist quote here and there so that people think he's associated with those ideas.
Leftists are enraged by yanis’ ,,end of capitalism” and they continue to buy into the climate change scheme and other oligarchic gimmicks to prolongue a dying system that do not need leftists as their opponents. We are now facing something different that need a totally different approach
12 apostołów liczymy Yanis
Kolektyw to 12 apostołów.
the Chinese position has never changed, after Mao called Taiwan independent from the mainland?
Is QE preventing a war between Big Tech and Equity? There is cloud capital, and there is ownership of physical economy in terms of shareholding.This is like real part and imaginary part of a complex number in math.
The other thing that can be done is to create competion by offering a smaler rent as you call it. I stead of 40 percent offer 10 percent rent, for the use of the platform.
Nice video and presentation.
The producer of this video doesn’t have to endure this but the audience must or switch channel. We are extremely irritated by the campaign symbol flashing on/off in the middle part of YOUR presentation. Do Turn It Off PLEASE.
I'm ready to ride for this
Around 9:00 the controversy about the start of actual capitalism, separating itself from feudalism.
I believe the big trick came with the English deal of Liberalism, that brought same law to everybody. It's a bit dishonest because not everybody can afford access to the legal system.
But it enabled the aristocratic and bourgeois parts of society to have access to capitalist markets, because it limited aristocracy from directly dictating who got what and who paid what.
I agree to Yanis that early traces of a capitalist market do not constitute real, full capitalism. But I think it was a pathway for it to develop. Because, these markets gave room and opportunity to forms of production, that became more and more capitalist. The textile industry created profit, and this profit had to be used to transform land into a commodity, so to invest into growing the wool. Textiles had the ability to become luxury goods, and thus were more powerful (in struggles of control and dominance) than agriculture that produced food. It forced some aristocracy to sell land.
I was just stoked elon accepted the job offer
POV: If Voldemort was on the light side
Both parties are owned by the same family
Ideology can shift the flow of money, so profit to the ideologic stakeholders of the world order of the era was never that important than it is to the mid-size undertaker.
Bro stop interrupting Yanis for god’s sake. It’s annoying hearing your vouce when he’s in the middle of a thought.
Fictitious capital is still a feature of capitalism even in its modern hyper financed form. Do we still work for a living? Do capitalists, backed by the state, still run the means of production, shape our consumption, own and rent out our living quarters to us, and yes, speculate, loan, and invent obscure financial products? Why declare post capitalism, when the basic structures from the early industrial period are still engaged in the dialectical struggle on literally the same terms but with different mechanisms, features, and quirks.
Cloud capital is the new kid in the block that has eaten up or enslaved the players that had had control before.
Also this is a system of virtualization.
It cannot be fought or controlled with the older strategies.
@@neovxr thank you for your response. I respectfully think that what you call virtualization is in its earliest stages and even when it is ubiquitous it does not necessarily mean that the method of using capital, which in this case belongs on the cloud and is beholden to private managers i.e. corporations, to produce something, be it a service, a good, or a speculative investment using some form of labor (including automation) for a profit, will cease to exist. You would say cloud capital is a whole new mode of production that negates the need to understand class antagonisms under capitalism in all its previous stages?
You got Yannis to get spicy. Well done.
"they invested huge amounts of money" translation "they took huge amounts of risk" and they (Bezos, Elon, their investors) got a return on the risk they took. What Varoufakis conveniently "forgets" to mention is the other tens of thousands entrepreneurs who took the risk and failed, losing everything but that in doing so did put lots of money into the real economy by paying for services and products, from construction to engineering, from catering to design, etc. In the end the worst monopoly of all will always be a communist state that takes away the property from the absolute majority of its unlucky citizens which are not part of the party leadership.
Stimulating !
Global left family. Yenge from KongoHouse. Is it right to say capitalism = individualisme and Socialism = Ubuntu or Humanism?
Yanis actually misses the point - where information is the new means of production and techno capital avoids taxes and takes moey from the capitalist system in terms of accumulation. That means less monetary circulation, which is counter to invisible hand markets.
The production of "behavior" is not a capitalist thing, if goes far beyond advertising that makes us buy a car or smartphone, perhaps in a color that pleases us.
It is the moral and ideologic capture, which is an aspect of the oldest feudal societies already.
As a Marxist, Yanis seems to underestimate or ignore that, because it is an embarrassing competition to Marxist ethics.
I see a huge playground of purpose and motivation in this, and it is not good.
east india used the public army same as the oil companies do.
My POV... the internationalist left battle isn't about capitalism vs communism; it's about liberalism vs socialism, i.e., individual rights vs community rights. Until community rights supersede individual rights, we're just spinning our wheels, and the global oligarchic kleptocracies will continue to dominate geopolitical economics.
Collectivism and centrally planned economies don't work
Musk is still a capitalist as he still makes things. Good points about Meta Google etc
It us easy to beat this.
Just select from the suggestions, what you need to buy and buy it elsewhere, just to beat it.
If well, understtod consumers have a lot of power. They can choose, not be passive.
BIBLE
Funny, you start by introducing Yanis as Yanis Yaroufuckthis!😅
capitalism existed since thag bought a papaya from ug for two seashells and sold it to yug for three.
a computer just executes instructions and does not know what they cause.
a tailor tape modifies my behavior. i see it advises me to buy the next larger t shirt.
all a matter of degree. capitalism sucks. the corner fruit and vegetable market ok, amazon, not so ok.
👏✌️👏🇧🇷🇷🇺🇮🇳🇨🇳🇿🇦➕️👍👍👍
I don't like the prompt to subscribe . Let me make my own decisions . I subscribed and will unsubscribe if this channel gets on my nerves . unsubscribe unsubscribe unsubscribe unsubscribe unsubscribe (see , isn't this fun?)
The dollar system is reliant on having a large global navy… China doesn’t want this and never has. Given how they act with Russia they also still prefer dollars.
Their payment system is HIGHLY controlled for it to challenge the dollar, if it tried it would collapse
You are out of date. China, Russia and others have already moved on from dollar towards using their own currencies
This guy talks sheer nonsense!
who is this fool?
Another ignorant BS
Elon Mask Maxell vto pokolenie w rzeczywistości Rockefelorów to chazar owie.v
Mark vZuckerveg Rockefelor to wnuk Rockefelorów.
Jacinda bacharach Rotchild vto pokolenie Rotchildow etc...
Too much silly reading makes on dumb.....talking about the host
Thanks