Les Goh. Here’s the timestamps: 00:00 Intro 00:33 Why Johann Studied Attention 11:22 Parable of the TikTokkers 15:33 What is Attention & How Does it Work? 20:08 How Detrimental is Constant Task-Switching? 30:37 Should there be Systemic Changes to Improve Attention? 43:32 Flow States for Wellbeing 1:02:52 How Sleep Relates to Focus 1:12:51 The Top Causes of Attention Loss 1:25:47 Are We to Blame for Device Addiction? 1:39:03 Johann’s Strategies to Enhance Attention 1:51:14 Where to Find Johann
My attention to tasks and interests got better after I developed a routine of forcing myself to read. Some breath work before and after helps tremendously. It's gotta be a physical copy, though.
@@PigBenis4U Have you given an e-reader a chance? For me, I don't feel a major difference in my reading exprience between a physical copy and an e-reader like the kindle paperwhite
@@spamme766 I have, but I've always liked flipping pages by hand, the smell of a new book, or the stench of an old one 😄. Readers are definitely handy and convenient. But I feel like a physical copy keeps me disciplined.
Currently trying to do the same. I used to read a lot but last few years I've barely read at all. I'm working on replacing my bedtime spliff with a bedtime reading sesh!
Of course the joke is. how many can sit thru the nearly two hours of this video. Love your work Chris. Thanks for bringing some great topics to the fore
Lots of people do it, but they do something else at the same time - driving, gaming, running, etc. Who would actually sit down on the sofa and just listen to this conversation? Certainly not me.
Oh god don't get me started. As a retired school teacher I look back on the wasted effort of trying to keep kids engaged. The problems began to arise in about 2014, but really struck home the year before I retire in in 2019. One thing we are taught is to be assertive at the beginning of a lesson, get kids attention and lay out succinctly what will be happening in the lesson, knowing they have just come from a lunch break or another exciting class. What I noticed was that after two minutes into an explanation that also involved getting them to remember what we did last time and tying it to this lesson, they would switch off and start talking to each other. They just stopped listening. This ties into the purpose of education being gradually changed in their minds. It has lost its obvious appeal and purpose to them in the context of the rest of their lives. It also seems to tie in with how kids relate to the emotionally satisfying things in the other parts of their lives and what gives them emotional fulfillment, rather than what needs to be done or achieved. So there is no compromise. They only want to do what feels right for them. Social media builds social networks that allow for emotional bonding that excludes a whole range of other social connection, including educational environments and teachers. It as though they think it is irrelevant to what they see as important, so they have created emotional priorities which exclude other necessary things. By my final year in the profession, I realized that kids were struggling to understand why they were even at school, as though it was an interruption to doing things they enjoyed, such as playing fortnight for hours on end and other things that were satisfying rather than annoying or not fun. I believe a generational issue related to having the capacity to understand the point of a basic education has manifested. This will not be turned around easily. I got the distinct impression when meeting a new class of year 7 students that they were bemused about the reason there was an old guy up the front of the class room. They actually looked confused and turned to look at each other. So I asked does everyone know why they come to school? Blank looks. If I didn't know better I would say this is social engineering and has been planned a while ago, and is being implemented now. The government of my state has just put out a request for retired teachers to come back into the work force, because younger teachers with little capacity emotionally to deal deal with the abuse and condescending attitudes and personal attacks by students, have left the profession in droves.
For the men who actually do have attention and ambition, the world is ripe for the picking. I started a now successful IT Consulting company this year. People would be blown away by how easy it is to make millions a year, but I guess they’re too busy playing fortnite to care lol
Although not as old as you (I am from the '80s), I must say I already experienced most of what you said as a student in the '90s and early '00s. It had always been unclear to me why I should be going to school and I don't feel like the education system did a good job explaining to me why: because of the signaling that a diploma gives off. Like most I was confused I was there for learning, whereas in reality I was there to obtain a diploma. The only time I have used Pythagoras' equation in my life was when taking an IQ test ("pete and john stand with their backs against each other and walk 3 meters forward, then turn to their left and walk another 3 meters, how far are they away from each other?"). However, basic and important life skills were absent (i.e. anything government related, such as doing taxes). I'm positive I've acquired a bunch of knowledge that isn't immediately obvious to me right now, but I'm also quite certain that none of that required me to be at school for so many hours a week for so many years. Did I really have to learn about the plusquamperfectum? Decaliters? Archimedes' screw? Mitochondria? I'm not so sure.
Wow...thank you for sharing!...I am 58 and my classes were very obedient and no one ever interrupted the class...no chatting, or note passing, or doodling!
@@lorenzovrolijk I went to school right after the turn of the millennia, and everything stated above also applied to us. We did not know why we were there, what the stuff we were taught was useful for. We also were quite ruthless to young teachers. As soon as we could smell that they did not have the backbone to handle two dozen teenagers they were essentially out. But I have also to say that some of the young teachers did do actually extremely well.
Thoroughly agreed. Of all the lectures, podcasts, JP, Rogan, Harris, whoever, this was a truly fantastic talk, and something I desperately needed to hear. Very Well Done, Chris and Johann.
In computer science, thrashing occurs when a computer's virtual memory resources are overused, leading to a constant state of paging and page faults, inhibiting most application-level processing. This causes the performance of the computer to degrade or collapse. The situation can continue indefinitely until either the user closes some running applications or the active processes free up additional virtual memory resources.
That system architecture has come down from MINI computers and has not changed much. Perhaps it's time to come up with a new computer system architecture.
@@BartdeBoisblanc It's true. And it is funny how even modern programs (Chrome, Adobe products) etc. can peak with memory leaks and need a proper restart.
I feel like isolation has a lot to do with lack of focus. I'm only 30 min in to this video, so maybe he addresses this, but if I am around other people, I feel like I can get things done even if we're not talking. Where as when I am alone, the aloneness is practically unbearable, and I find ways to not feel alone. Typically that means UA-cam, which distracts the shit out of me, and I end up not getting anything done. I used to think that it was the social pressure of being around people that helped me stay on task, and that might be part of it, but these days I'm sure there is a deeper component.
I’m the exact opposite: if I’m around other people, all I want to do is talk to them. I think this may be a personality thing that holds for some and not others. Maybe I’m more extraverted or something. I also have ADHD, so that might me some of it.
@@kemperhiggins895 I think most people with ADHD actually work better with people around them- as far as the literature goes anyway -- so i'd say your experience is probably to do with your extraversion as opposed to a common phenomenon of ADHD
7:25 When his godson says something is wrong but I don't know what it is I felt tears well up. We can be better than that. I just know we can. Love your show C Dubbs.
I've really noticed since covid started that my attention has dropped precipitously. So much information coming in plus the stress of it all and now I have such a hard time reading a book!
Anyone else start this podcast while death scrolling on fb/insta? Wooooooah what a stunned moment when I shifted focus and realized what I was doing! Going to have to listen to this a few times and try to change my life.
Personally, I struggled with this a shit ton, until I found my passion and life purpose. So that solved my issue with this. Anyway, thanks for sharing. - Migue
I have do doubt that this can have a significant impact. When theres an innate connection between you and what you're doing, your mind will allocate more resources to what it is you're involved with. In the same way that someone long term fasting will notice a marked increase in every sense that would relate to spotting prey and/or noticing harvestable edibles.
@@Quincycle Heal as many people and as deeply as possible of their inner issues and from there help them build a great, passionate life for themselves. Basically, deep spiritual work and self-development :).
Interesting. This is reminding me of how I speak to my driving students sometimes about our attention switching between our driving and our phones. But this is adding to my understanding and my ability to express concise points to students.
@Hugh Mongous I actually think that a lot of us are quite capable of listening to a lecture, sermon, book on tape, interview or podcast while driving. There are caveats here. One, we do need to do as you described to not have to mess with our device while driving but just let it play. And two, we need to be mindful of our own strengths and weaknesses. For example I know that I am highly visually distractible and my general and visual distractibility is a problem that can cause me to have no idea if I have been distracted for a small fraction of a second or for three seconds. (That second part is true of most people at least some of the time and three seconds at freeway speeds is a tremendous distance). I used to use a map program on my phone that at some point began throwing ads up over the map which could really throw me for a loop in unfamiliar territory when I really needed a quick glance at the map. I quit using it almost immediately and I even let them know through their facebook page that I thought that it was a terrible danger they were creating. So someone who knows that as they listen they will lose track of their driving is in a very different position and needs to make a different decision than I have made about listening. But I am an auditory learner and have been driving for over 30 years. Even so I have had times that I had to tune out of listening to pay more attention to a bad driving situation. You just have to when those really bad moments come up. And I have driven in some pretty terrible circumstances a few times in my life. I do recommend to new drivers to be very mindful of not letting even the most minor of distractions play a part regardless of seeing that they are a norm for experienced drivers, explaining that the dividing line between new and experienced drivers is about 5 years driving. And then if they have a more in depth or personalized question, such as your drowsiness issue, I discuss it on an adult level with them and acknowledge that it is important for all of us to know ourselves well, to be brutally honest with ourselves, and that once they get their license they will make all their own risk benefit analysis on many different small decisions, as all the rest of us have had to do. Btw, if you haven't yet you might consider learning to drive a stick. I can relate to part of your description of yourself and I find that I enjoy stick shifts partly because they keep me more present in my driving. Just take it for what is worth. Your mileage may vary.
This might have just changed my life. Just the other day, I found myself completely unable to focus on a task while working from home. The only way I was able to get myself to do it was by simultaneously listening to music. I used to think that I was having trouble focussing because I'm just not a very conscientious person. But now I see that the reason I can't focus is actually that concentrating on one thing is not enough for my overstimulated mind anymore. I have to tune out much more, and I'm going to get a good night's sleep before my driving exam next week. Thank you for this.
My attention is so strained that I have to multi task and do several different things having this long form podcast in my headphones. So glad I did! Such a genuine and interesting guest! This is a huge wake up call for me to be present in my life. I’m so distracted I don’t even notice my lack of attention sometimes. Great episode and can’t wait to apply this
I feel the positivity of what we can do here, to wrestle some improved quality of life back, goes some way towards healing the scars from the scary conclusions in the Richard Wrangham ep.
The irony of listening to Chris and Johann talk about constant task-switching and attention whilst simultaneously sitting at work reading/responding to emails, working on spreadsheets, setting up meetings, etc...
This is one of the most insightful and interesting podcasts I've ever listened to. Yet, I'm not sure how or if I'll be able to implement this in my life to live a better and more fulfilling life. I had already made some massive changes in my life to help with some of these things, like cutting caffeine out of my life to help me sleep better and it really, really, did. Yet I still live next to an airport in an apartment complex and regularly work a 50 hour work week and sometimes have to work Saturdays even. Also, a train station is being built close to where I live so that there will be even more noise. It doesn't matter if I lay down to go to sleep 9 hours before I have to get up the next day for work, which btw would mean going to bed before 8PM, if I get woken up by noisy neighbors, planes, or trains at 2AM. I'm not sure how much more I can do on the individual level or even how much more it would matter. The environment/society we live in now is torturous in a way we don't even recognize.
I’ve mostly lived in pretty rural places-I can now see it was a huge gift. I now live in a small mountain town-in a “neighborhood,” I can see people’s houses out of my windows, the mailman, etc. Anytime I get further away from this feeling of crowdedness I instantly have a sea-change in energy to the good. I’ve always wanted SPACIOUSNESS, and I thrive when I do have it. It feels natural. I feel for you-it sounds non-resonant with peace and health. I hope for you to have spaciousness.
I’ve been meditating like it’s going out of fashion these past two years, reciting sutras, know the prajna paramita word for word, sitting cross-legged going ‘Aum’, with an audio diet of Alan Watts, Neville Goddard, Ram Das, to name but a few, trying to find answers to all this that’s going on and quite simply, we’re already there. Everything that’s been discussed in this podcast, everyone already knows, deep down. The part two years have revealed to me that there is nothing left to reveal, everything is as you already know it to be and discussions like this only serve to further prove so. Don’t let me delude you into thinking that I’m perfected though, far from it; I don’t even know why I’m writing this - just to say that all the answers are within 🙏🧘♂️🙏
Check out the teaching of Ramana Maharshi and Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj. It has helped me greatly. The Advaita Vedanta teaching of the ancient Rishis from the East.
From ages 7-50ish I was a bookworm, reading constantly. My teacher parents chose not to have television. In recent years (turned 60 last week) I barely read any books; I watch a lot of UA-cam & listened to podcasts, much of it very interesting (history, art history, archaeology, work-related YT, and stuff like this). Pretty recently I decided there was something about this that didn't feel right, I felt like time was slipping away, and went back to physical books. It has slowed my brain down in a good way, and if I don't know everything about everything "going on", oh well. I'm not reading *improving* books, most of the time, just engaging stories, but there's something about the silence of it which is very calming and grounding.
Very interesting that you Chris easily read fictional opposed to nonfiction but that your podcasts which are all non fictional subjects, are so deepfylly meaningful and really brilliant.
I think Johann's views on tackling the 'environment' as a collective are very interesting. It makes me wonder if influencers like Chris himself, who are sharing these podcasts to an audience to help them be the best they can be in their current environment, might indirectly be influencing the very nature of the environmental context itself- as the people they influence might influence others, and so on.
Oh, Chris. Johann is SO on-target with all of this. The interruption factor destroying one's ability to work, the fact that it takes 20-30 minutes to get back into work with any substance, the ungodly effects of being continually, mercilessly interrupted (especially during WFH), concentration being shot during the pandemic because one is just constantly spinning, trying to check what new risks and threats may be incoming. Here to validate all of it...and the poor sleep, I've struggled for years to get more than 6 hours a night, and the thought that 5 hours are average anywhere is horrific. This is all so very, very useful to hear about, and I have to try a number of his suggestions.
I worked on a floor full of software programmers a few years ago. 100 people, and almost complete silence. There was no rule as far as I know - it is just the case that people knew that it is impossible to work any other way. It isn't just the interruption that sets you back - it is the anticipation of an interruption.
@@tonycatman Up to when I retired in September 2020, I also worked as a programmer. Originally in an office where interruptions were rare, meetings ran to a schedule, and email was nil...then my team (12) got sent home at mid-March 2020, and from then on it was pure hell. Every day our prime working hours were getting cored out with Skype calls, there were whole-team emails flying in all directions, everybody being cc'd on everything so that anybody who might have something to add to discussions could be aware, and every time the bloody laptop pinged, one had to drop everything and check, because every time, yeah, it *might* actually be legitimately for you. By two weeks in, that anticipation of constant interruptions was every bit as destructive as the interruptions themselves, and the massive increases in time that had to be put into email production was just freakin' insanity to deal with.
@@plushiebug5993 The move to home working needs to be managed properly. A whole pile of middle managers simultaneously had to justify their own existence, and also ensure that their staff were actually working. The first few months for us were a bit crap - meetings on zoom, and MSteams were common. They went on too long, and were mostly pointless. After a bit, I also noticed that my staff (mostly accounting and admin) were probably shirking when not in meetings. I wrote out an agenda, including the hours that they are expected to be at their home desks, sick days, holidays and email response times. Also, for the entire company, we schedule all of our tasks (a bit like Jira, or the product backlog, but with start and finish times). And when we start a task, we log on and off that task. So at any point in time, we have a dashboard and we can see what everyone is doing. Only about 35% of the staff have ever returned to the office full time since April 2020. Some of them because they have young kids. There's no question that we are more productive now than we were in early 2020.
@@tonycatman Our operation was very self-congratulatory about getting us all set up and do everything we needed remotely, within a week or two of all the developers being sent home, but completely blindsided by the human complications.
Fascinating. I am so interested in switching ability. I observed that the most successful academics in my PhD department seemed to be better at switching. My husband is a switching geniusI He definitely does not take 23 minutes to refocus.
I just now appreciate my decision that I never installed any social media on my smartphone. I have it for laptop and desktop PC and it fucks with my workdays enough. But now I think it could really have messed me up if I ever would have installed it to be permanently available.
In September 2020, having become accustomed to a lack of a social life during the previous 6 months, I came to realise just how totally absorbed I had become with stuff on the internet although I have never been a heavy user of social media. I decided to take a break from the internet as a whole which I did for a couple of weeks. By the end of the 2 week period, I was blown away by how much better I was sleeping and, consequently, how much better I felt, however, I gradually slipped back into my old ways. On the back of this fascinating video, a serious review of my habots is about to happen.
56:30 I was hoping and waiting for a reference to Marshall McLuhan because his philosophy is central to the modern phenomena discussed here, and yet is so criminally unknown and/or undervalued. McLuhan's understanding of the impact of technology (specifically media technologies) on human culture and society is the key to this problem....
Great discussion; would love to see you have John Vervaeke on to explore his research and body of work in 4E cognitive neuroscience. Takes a very good approach to the current meaning and attention crises going on. Keep up the great work Chris!
The weekend has existed for millenia in some cultures, the French tried to extend week length to increase productivity and were forced to pare it down because it caused more problems than it solved.
I think implementation of neural link will help and also worsen this issue of always being online, attached to a screen, etc. Integration with technology helps solve an issue usually by creating another one in its place.
Great interview. I really need to start reading Hari's books, because I've seen his interviews about his two previous books as well, and they all seem like great and important books.
I appreciate this episode so much. I remember when the smart phone first came out. I didn’t get one until later in life and I recall looking around and struggling to meet eye contact and have conversations because everyone’s head was down looking at their phone. It’s hard to fully know the ramifications, as the smart phone is relatively new in human history. The happiest and most progress I’ve made in life is when I have not had access to the inter webs. There has to be a happy medium, yet similarly, is it feeding into a part of gratification that is silly to expect humans to fully exhibit self-control? I hope this conversation can be continued. I miss presence in humanity. When I went to a farm I lived on a couple of months ago, there was no service and it stands like a cathedral in my memory. xoxo
Phenomenal conversation....as a musician I've found this degradation of attention to be very destructive...it's become increasingly difficult for ppl to learn and instrument....there's more knowledge.. tutorials..courses than ever but the attention to focus on one consistently and work towards a goal just isn't there
Wow what an interview! Managed to give it nearly my full attention for the whole 1:52. YT is my main vice. Thankfully I never installed IG, TikTok, twitter. Thanks for giving me some inspiration and tools. Going to search my library for your book Johann.
Another absolutely phenomenal interview brother. Your style is so poignant and you never interrupt or distract the guest, so I think you're right about your podcast flow state, you've got the attention piece downpat here. This was a very insightful and eye opening discussion for me, I have been seriously reconsidering my social media/internet use for years, but found it so difficult to move away from, mostly because everyone is doing it as well. I think you guys are totally right that there needs to be a societal shift away from this, and it all starts like women voting, or lead out of gasoline, or Mothers Against Drunk Driving does: by normal people saying we're not doing this anymore and demanding a change, but also practicing one themselves.
Excellent discussion on the topic but what needs to be addressed especially when it comes to things like ADHD and the general decline in people's attention is *we should not be so hard on ourselves when we find things that are boring!*
I just felt drowsy, it's early in the morning, I have no energy/focus. Hari said: It might well be air pollotion. I open all my windows, within literally one minute I feel awake, a surge of energy overcomes me. wow.
If you can listen to this whole 2hr discussion, then maybe you didn’t need it after all. Very interesting content, but I believe it was Walter Mischel at Stanford in the 60s who came up with the original Marshmallow Test.
Great podcast. Loved the book. I’ve been listening to a lot of your podcasts lately and just signed up to your mailing list too. Really enjoy your content Chris, keep up the outstanding work 👍
i was thinking about this video and Johann's topic near the end of a 3 hour car journey... loads of us spend hours driving or something so it's obvious that we /CAN/ still concentrate on one task for hours, if we are stuck outside piloting a fast dangerous metal box miles away from home. there must be so many other tasks like this where you concentrate because you HAVE to.
This is so interesting. My son is 9 years old. I had put Willy Wonka &The Chocolate Factory. He kept getting up to do something else. He wouldn't sit still for a movie I saw at the same age. So I put a kids movie on Netflix it was about 1.30 hour. He actually sat through this and it had more explosion and action. It got to the point quickly then he said this was great 👍🏾! I noticed the length of movies I watched as a child I would sit still to retain the moral of the story. It bothered me I assumed it was my son. But this video shed light bro what is really going on.
The "medium is the message" is a really effective quote. Just look at the war in Ukraine. Most of the news even in mainstream media are in forms of tiktok styled video clips. In contrast, the Iraq/afganistan war was more tv news styled. Wars before that were news paper news styled.
I stayed more focused watching this podcast than any movie of seen lately. Absolutely and thoroughly enjoyed this conversation. Favourite quote: "We own our own minds and we can take them back from the fuckers who stole them..."
I'm at the point in the interview where he says you can't read a book in the Battle of the Somme. Ernst Jünger did, if not at the Somme, at which, incidentally, he was present, then at some such battle during the First World War. I quote from a blog called 'The Pierian Spring': "On his last battle, which nearly sees him killed, Jünger leisurely reads what has been airdropped by the English to taunt the Germans. Right before the attack that nearly kills him Jünger naps and reads Laurence Sterne’s Tristram Shandy!" In an interview I read, Jünger claims the book was more memorable than the battle. Anyway, enjoying the interview. Cheers!
Daniel Levitin is the godfather of all of this - his book The Organised Mind absolutely changed my life back around 2015 or so. He’s a must for the show if you can get him on. His other book This Is Your Brain On Music is another classic
I'd love to see you guys do a review of the book Scattered Minds by Dr Gabor mate, and have this conversation again with the knowledge from that book in mind! It discusses in detail how trauma can change your brain and cause you to constantly be in that hypervigilant state Johann was talking about, and how it makes focus nearly impossible.
I refuse to be a phone zombie - for me personally. But I see it, everybody sees it, people can't even watch TV without that phone in their hand. They are not multi-tasking; nothing actually gets done. Happens to me too when I'm on youtube or Rumble too much.
My attention is so bad that I'm about to be assessed for ADHD on Monday and I'm in my 30s! Having said that, I've done a number of degrees and am currently doing a PhD, so I don't necessarily agree that you can't achieve anything if you have a bad attention span, but it does make life significantly harder and makes completing any task take sooo much longer than it needs to take. For me, my poor attention span causes me distress a lot of the time. I can think back to when I was younger and can see traits of ADHD then, but I agree that the current conditions we live in has probably caused my attention to be significantly worse. Re social media, I'm so glad that I've never been into Twitter and I refuse to get Tik Tok. I deactivated Facebook last year but still have Instagram, unfortunately (just can't bring myself to get rid of it). UA-cam is my biggest weakness. I'm 100% down for banning together to combat the issues with social media! Last thing - good discussion! Johann scared me a bit, but in a good way 😅
Les Goh. Here’s the timestamps:
00:00 Intro
00:33 Why Johann Studied Attention
11:22 Parable of the TikTokkers
15:33 What is Attention & How Does it Work?
20:08 How Detrimental is Constant Task-Switching?
30:37 Should there be Systemic Changes to Improve Attention?
43:32 Flow States for Wellbeing
1:02:52 How Sleep Relates to Focus
1:12:51 The Top Causes of Attention Loss
1:25:47 Are We to Blame for Device Addiction?
1:39:03 Johann’s Strategies to Enhance Attention
1:51:14 Where to Find Johann
Thanks Chris
Thanks, this helps as I didn’t wanna have to sit through the whole thing.
I love how you interview on so many topics and from so many viewpoints.
My attention to tasks and interests got better after I developed a routine of forcing myself to read. Some breath work before and after helps tremendously. It's gotta be a physical copy, though.
I really need to do that. I've had a book that I really want, and need, to read for half a year now. I'm barely into the 2nd chapter
@@johnludtke1447I feel you, John. Done enough times and it gets easier. Start with just 5 minutes at a time. Just a thought.
@@PigBenis4U Have you given an e-reader a chance? For me, I don't feel a major difference in my reading exprience between a physical copy and an e-reader like the kindle paperwhite
@@spamme766 I have, but I've always liked flipping pages by hand, the smell of a new book, or the stench of an old one 😄. Readers are definitely handy and convenient. But I feel like a physical copy keeps me disciplined.
Currently trying to do the same. I used to read a lot but last few years I've barely read at all. I'm working on replacing my bedtime spliff with a bedtime reading sesh!
Of course the joke is. how many can sit thru the nearly two hours of this video.
Love your work Chris. Thanks for bringing some great topics to the fore
Exactly, it’s a personal challenge!
Lots of people do it, but they do something else at the same time - driving, gaming, running, etc. Who would actually sit down on the sofa and just listen to this conversation? Certainly not me.
Or even read a book about his findings hahaa!
@@TheARJAY69 Same, but isn't that the point? That we should slow down and just allow ourselves to devote our attention to a single thing?
I’m ashamed to say I checked the comments around 25 mins in🤦♂️
Oh god don't get me started. As a retired school teacher I look back on the wasted effort of trying to keep kids engaged. The problems began to arise in about 2014, but really struck home the year before I retire in in 2019. One thing we are taught is to be assertive at the beginning of a lesson, get kids attention and lay out succinctly what will be happening in the lesson, knowing they have just come from a lunch break or another exciting class. What I noticed was that after two minutes into an explanation that also involved getting them to remember what we did last time and tying it to this lesson, they would switch off and start talking to each other. They just stopped listening. This ties into the purpose of education being gradually changed in their minds. It has lost its obvious appeal and purpose to them in the context of the rest of their lives. It also seems to tie in with how kids relate to the emotionally satisfying things in the other parts of their lives and what gives them emotional fulfillment, rather than what needs to be done or achieved. So there is no compromise. They only want to do what feels right for them. Social media builds social networks that allow for emotional bonding that excludes a whole range of other social connection, including educational environments and teachers. It as though they think it is irrelevant to what they see as important, so they have created emotional priorities which exclude other necessary things.
By my final year in the profession, I realized that kids were struggling to understand why they were even at school, as though it was an interruption to doing things they enjoyed, such as playing fortnight for hours on end and other things that were satisfying rather than annoying or not fun. I believe a generational issue related to having the capacity to understand the point of a basic education has manifested. This will not be turned around easily. I got the distinct impression when meeting a new class of year 7 students that they were bemused about the reason there was an old guy up the front of the class room. They actually looked confused and turned to look at each other. So I asked does everyone know why they come to school? Blank looks.
If I didn't know better I would say this is social engineering and has been planned a while ago, and is being implemented now.
The government of my state has just put out a request for retired teachers to come back into the work force, because younger teachers with little capacity emotionally to deal deal with the abuse and condescending attitudes and personal attacks by students, have left the profession in droves.
For the men who actually do have attention and ambition, the world is ripe for the picking. I started a now successful IT Consulting company this year. People would be blown away by how easy it is to make millions a year, but I guess they’re too busy playing fortnite to care lol
Although not as old as you (I am from the '80s), I must say I already experienced most of what you said as a student in the '90s and early '00s. It had always been unclear to me why I should be going to school and I don't feel like the education system did a good job explaining to me why: because of the signaling that a diploma gives off. Like most I was confused I was there for learning, whereas in reality I was there to obtain a diploma. The only time I have used Pythagoras' equation in my life was when taking an IQ test ("pete and john stand with their backs against each other and walk 3 meters forward, then turn to their left and walk another 3 meters, how far are they away from each other?"). However, basic and important life skills were absent (i.e. anything government related, such as doing taxes). I'm positive I've acquired a bunch of knowledge that isn't immediately obvious to me right now, but I'm also quite certain that none of that required me to be at school for so many hours a week for so many years. Did I really have to learn about the plusquamperfectum? Decaliters? Archimedes' screw? Mitochondria? I'm not so sure.
Wow...thank you for sharing!...I am 58 and my classes were very obedient and no one ever interrupted the class...no chatting, or note passing, or doodling!
@@lorenzovrolijk I went to school right after the turn of the millennia, and everything stated above also applied to us.
We did not know why we were there, what the stuff we were taught was useful for.
We also were quite ruthless to young teachers. As soon as we could smell that they did not have the backbone to handle two dozen teenagers they were essentially out.
But I have also to say that some of the young teachers did do actually extremely well.
One of the best talks ever. I always really like Johann's work and he's an engaging speaker.
Thoroughly agreed. Of all the lectures, podcasts, JP, Rogan, Harris, whoever, this was a truly fantastic talk, and something I desperately needed to hear. Very Well Done, Chris and Johann.
Cannot stand his americanised ts becoming ds
In computer science, thrashing occurs when a computer's virtual memory resources are overused, leading to a constant state of paging and page faults, inhibiting most application-level processing. This causes the performance of the computer to degrade or collapse. The situation can continue indefinitely until either the user closes some running applications or the active processes free up additional virtual memory resources.
Great analogy.
Wow I relate to this statement to a surprisingly profound degree... Interesting analogy.
That system architecture has come down from MINI computers and has not changed much. Perhaps it's time to come up with a new computer system architecture.
@@BartdeBoisblanc Harvard? It's most irrelevant, RAM is almost free.
@@BartdeBoisblanc It's true. And it is funny how even modern programs (Chrome, Adobe products) etc. can peak with memory leaks and need a proper restart.
I feel like isolation has a lot to do with lack of focus. I'm only 30 min in to this video, so maybe he addresses this, but if I am around other people, I feel like I can get things done even if we're not talking. Where as when I am alone, the aloneness is practically unbearable, and I find ways to not feel alone. Typically that means UA-cam, which distracts the shit out of me, and I end up not getting anything done. I used to think that it was the social pressure of being around people that helped me stay on task, and that might be part of it, but these days I'm sure there is a deeper component.
❤️❤️❤️
Loneliness causes hypervigilance and stress. Humans do better in tribes.
I’m the exact opposite: if I’m around other people, all I want to do is talk to them. I think this may be a personality thing that holds for some and not others. Maybe I’m more extraverted or something. I also have ADHD, so that might me some of it.
@@kemperhiggins895 I think most people with ADHD actually work better with people around them- as far as the literature goes anyway -- so i'd say your experience is probably to do with your extraversion as opposed to a common phenomenon of ADHD
@@whitmberb I agree, but it helps to have meaning in your life at that point. I think we're also dealing with nihilism.
7:25 When his godson says something is wrong but I don't know what it is I felt tears well up. We can be better than that. I just know we can.
Love your show C Dubbs.
He probably attempts to molest his godson.
I've really noticed since covid started that my attention has dropped precipitously. So much information coming in plus the stress of it all and now I have such a hard time reading a book!
Anyone else start this podcast while death scrolling on fb/insta? Wooooooah what a stunned moment when I shifted focus and realized what I was doing!
Going to have to listen to this a few times and try to change my life.
One of the best podcasts I've seen. This was super informative and really interesting.
Brilliant. "If everyone agrees with you, it probably didn't need to be said."
Personally, I struggled with this a shit ton, until I found my passion and life purpose. So that solved my issue with this. Anyway, thanks for sharing. - Migue
I have do doubt that this can have a significant impact. When theres an innate connection between you and what you're doing, your mind will allocate more resources to what it is you're involved with. In the same way that someone long term fasting will notice a marked increase in every sense that would relate to spotting prey and/or noticing harvestable edibles.
What was your passion and life's purpose may I ask?
@@Quincycle Heal as many people and as deeply as possible of their inner issues and from there help them build a great, passionate life for themselves. Basically, deep spiritual work and self-development :).
Interesting. This is reminding me of how I speak to my driving students sometimes about our attention switching between our driving and our phones. But this is adding to my understanding and my ability to express concise points to students.
@Hugh Mongous I actually think that a lot of us are quite capable of listening to a lecture, sermon, book on tape, interview or podcast while driving. There are caveats here. One, we do need to do as you described to not have to mess with our device while driving but just let it play. And two, we need to be mindful of our own strengths and weaknesses. For example I know that I am highly visually distractible and my general and visual distractibility is a problem that can cause me to have no idea if I have been distracted for a small fraction of a second or for three seconds. (That second part is true of most people at least some of the time and three seconds at freeway speeds is a tremendous distance).
I used to use a map program on my phone that at some point began throwing ads up over the map which could really throw me for a loop in unfamiliar territory when I really needed a quick glance at the map. I quit using it almost immediately and I even let them know through their facebook page that I thought that it was a terrible danger they were creating. So someone who knows that as they listen they will lose track of their driving is in a very different position and needs to make a different decision than I have made about listening. But I am an auditory learner and have been driving for over 30 years. Even so I have had times that I had to tune out of listening to pay more attention to a bad driving situation. You just have to when those really bad moments come up. And I have driven in some pretty terrible circumstances a few times in my life.
I do recommend to new drivers to be very mindful of not letting even the most minor of distractions play a part regardless of seeing that they are a norm for experienced drivers, explaining that the dividing line between new and experienced drivers is about 5 years driving. And then if they have a more in depth or personalized question, such as your drowsiness issue, I discuss it on an adult level with them and acknowledge that it is important for all of us to know ourselves well, to be brutally honest with ourselves, and that once they get their license they will make all their own risk benefit analysis on many different small decisions, as all the rest of us have had to do.
Btw, if you haven't yet you might consider learning to drive a stick. I can relate to part of your description of yourself and I find that I enjoy stick shifts partly because they keep me more present in my driving. Just take it for what is worth. Your mileage may vary.
This might have just changed my life. Just the other day, I found myself completely unable to focus on a task while working from home. The only way I was able to get myself to do it was by simultaneously listening to music. I used to think that I was having trouble focussing because I'm just not a very conscientious person. But now I see that the reason I can't focus is actually that concentrating on one thing is not enough for my overstimulated mind anymore. I have to tune out much more, and I'm going to get a good night's sleep before my driving exam next week. Thank you for this.
My attention is so strained that I have to multi task and do several different things having this long form podcast in my headphones. So glad I did! Such a genuine and interesting guest! This is a huge wake up call for me to be present in my life. I’m so distracted I don’t even notice my lack of attention sometimes. Great episode and can’t wait to apply this
Wow, this is the most important podcast of all time. Everyone with an internet needs to watch this.
This fella is shadowing me…addiction, depression & loneliness & now he’s alighted on attention span.
It is one of the most important conversations that I recently heard. I am definitely going to bring one/two changes in my LIFE based on it.
I feel the positivity of what we can do here, to wrestle some improved quality of life back, goes some way towards healing the scars from the scary conclusions in the Richard Wrangham ep.
I didn’t think this guy would ever be back! Interesting subject
The irony of listening to Chris and Johann talk about constant task-switching and attention whilst simultaneously sitting at work reading/responding to emails, working on spreadsheets, setting up meetings, etc...
This is an important video that people should see
Oh I absolutely love this interview.
Best interview I watched in a long time, and impotantly - it grabbed my attention through till the end!
This has been a really thought provoking episode. Thanks!
This is one of the most insightful and interesting podcasts I've ever listened to. Yet, I'm not sure how or if I'll be able to implement this in my life to live a better and more fulfilling life.
I had already made some massive changes in my life to help with some of these things, like cutting caffeine out of my life to help me sleep better and it really, really, did. Yet I still live next to an airport in an apartment complex and regularly work a 50 hour work week and sometimes have to work Saturdays even. Also, a train station is being built close to where I live so that there will be even more noise. It doesn't matter if I lay down to go to sleep 9 hours before I have to get up the next day for work, which btw would mean going to bed before 8PM, if I get woken up by noisy neighbors, planes, or trains at 2AM.
I'm not sure how much more I can do on the individual level or even how much more it would matter. The environment/society we live in now is torturous in a way we don't even recognize.
Dont you have ear plugs
I’ve mostly lived in pretty rural places-I can now see it was a huge gift. I now live in a small mountain town-in a “neighborhood,” I can see people’s houses out of my windows, the mailman, etc. Anytime I get further away from this feeling of crowdedness I instantly have a sea-change in energy to the good. I’ve always wanted SPACIOUSNESS, and I thrive when I do have it. It feels natural.
I feel for you-it sounds non-resonant with peace and health. I hope for you to have spaciousness.
I’ve been meditating like it’s going out of fashion these past two years, reciting sutras, know the prajna paramita word for word, sitting cross-legged going ‘Aum’, with an audio diet of Alan Watts, Neville Goddard, Ram Das, to name but a few, trying to find answers to all this that’s going on and quite simply, we’re already there.
Everything that’s been discussed in this podcast, everyone already knows, deep down. The part two years have revealed to me that there is nothing left to reveal, everything is as you already know it to be and discussions like this only serve to further prove so.
Don’t let me delude you into thinking that I’m perfected though, far from it; I don’t even know why I’m writing this - just to say that all the answers are within 🙏🧘♂️🙏
Check out the teaching of Ramana Maharshi and Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj. It has helped me greatly. The Advaita Vedanta teaching of the ancient Rishis from the East.
From ages 7-50ish I was a bookworm, reading constantly. My teacher parents chose not to have television. In recent years (turned 60 last week) I barely read any books; I watch a lot of UA-cam & listened to podcasts, much of it very interesting (history, art history, archaeology, work-related YT, and stuff like this). Pretty recently I decided there was something about this that didn't feel right, I felt like time was slipping away, and went back to physical books. It has slowed my brain down in a good way, and if I don't know everything about everything "going on", oh well. I'm not reading *improving* books, most of the time, just engaging stories, but there's something about the silence of it which is very calming and grounding.
Excellent interview with a brilliant guest, author and researcher. MORE OF THIS PLEASE!!
Very interesting that you Chris easily read fictional opposed to nonfiction but that your podcasts which are all non fictional subjects, are so deepfylly meaningful and really brilliant.
I think Johann's views on tackling the 'environment' as a collective are very interesting. It makes me wonder if influencers like Chris himself, who are sharing these podcasts to an audience to help them be the best they can be in their current environment, might indirectly be influencing the very nature of the environmental context itself- as the people they influence might influence others, and so on.
The full 'Are We To Blame For Social Media' section would make a great clip, it's really important this reaches new people.
This conversation is gold!
Oh, Chris. Johann is SO on-target with all of this. The interruption factor destroying one's ability to work, the fact that it takes 20-30 minutes to get back into work with any substance, the ungodly effects of being continually, mercilessly interrupted (especially during WFH), concentration being shot during the pandemic because one is just constantly spinning, trying to check what new risks and threats may be incoming. Here to validate all of it...and the poor sleep, I've struggled for years to get more than 6 hours a night, and the thought that 5 hours are average anywhere is horrific. This is all so very, very useful to hear about, and I have to try a number of his suggestions.
I worked on a floor full of software programmers a few years ago. 100 people, and almost complete silence.
There was no rule as far as I know - it is just the case that people knew that it is impossible to work any other way.
It isn't just the interruption that sets you back - it is the anticipation of an interruption.
@@tonycatman Up to when I retired in September 2020, I also worked as a programmer. Originally in an office where interruptions were rare, meetings ran to a schedule, and email was nil...then my team (12) got sent home at mid-March 2020, and from then on it was pure hell. Every day our prime working hours were getting cored out with Skype calls, there were whole-team emails flying in all directions, everybody being cc'd on everything so that anybody who might have something to add to discussions could be aware, and every time the bloody laptop pinged, one had to drop everything and check, because every time, yeah, it *might* actually be legitimately for you. By two weeks in, that anticipation of constant interruptions was every bit as destructive as the interruptions themselves, and the massive increases in time that had to be put into email production was just freakin' insanity to deal with.
@@plushiebug5993 The move to home working needs to be managed properly.
A whole pile of middle managers simultaneously had to justify their own existence, and also ensure that their staff were actually working.
The first few months for us were a bit crap - meetings on zoom, and MSteams were common. They went on too long, and were mostly pointless.
After a bit, I also noticed that my staff (mostly accounting and admin) were probably shirking when not in meetings.
I wrote out an agenda, including the hours that they are expected to be at their home desks, sick days, holidays and email response times.
Also, for the entire company, we schedule all of our tasks (a bit like Jira, or the product backlog, but with start and finish times).
And when we start a task, we log on and off that task.
So at any point in time, we have a dashboard and we can see what everyone is doing.
Only about 35% of the staff have ever returned to the office full time since April 2020. Some of them because they have young kids.
There's no question that we are more productive now than we were in early 2020.
@@tonycatman Our operation was very self-congratulatory about getting us all set up and do everything we needed remotely, within a week or two of all the developers being sent home, but completely blindsided by the human complications.
Fascinating. I am so interested in switching ability. I observed that the most successful academics in my PhD department seemed to be better at switching. My husband is a switching geniusI He definitely does not take 23 minutes to refocus.
I just now appreciate my decision that I never installed any social media on my smartphone. I have it for laptop and desktop PC and it fucks with my workdays enough. But now I think it could really have messed me up if I ever would have installed it to be permanently available.
Oh thats a happy compromise. I might delete them off my phone now. But my worst time burglars are UA-cam and the news.
I deleted all the social media apps from my phone a while ago. Best thing I ever did. Give your brain a rest
UA-cam tho…
In September 2020, having become accustomed to a lack of a social life during the previous 6 months, I came to realise just how totally absorbed I had become with stuff on the internet although I have never been a heavy user of social media. I decided to take a break from the internet as a whole which I did for a couple of weeks. By the end of the 2 week period, I was blown away by how much better I was sleeping and, consequently, how much better I felt, however, I gradually slipped back into my old ways. On the back of this fascinating video, a serious review of my habots is about to happen.
I LOVE Johann Hari! Amazing!!!! Thank you
Remarkable talk
56:30 I was hoping and waiting for a reference to Marshall McLuhan because his philosophy is central to the modern phenomena discussed here, and yet is so criminally unknown and/or undervalued. McLuhan's understanding of the impact of technology (specifically media technologies) on human culture and society is the key to this problem....
Is he anything to Marshall Mathers? JK ;)
By extension, Neil Postman and his work “Amused ourselves to Death” is wonderful (and terrifying)
Awesome podcast everyone needs to hear this
Great discussion; would love to see you have John Vervaeke on to explore his research and body of work in 4E cognitive neuroscience. Takes a very good approach to the current meaning and attention crises going on. Keep up the great work Chris!
The weekend has existed for millenia in some cultures, the French tried to extend week length to increase productivity and were forced to pare it down because it caused more problems than it solved.
I think implementation of neural link will help and also worsen this issue of always being online, attached to a screen, etc. Integration with technology helps solve an issue usually by creating another one in its place.
Thanks guys. Thank you both for this one.
Great interview. I really need to start reading Hari's books, because I've seen his interviews about his two previous books as well, and they all seem like great and important books.
Great podcast! I was listening and doing multiple other things. I should revisit this as a single thing to focus on.
Thanks mates!
I appreciate this episode so much. I remember when the smart phone first came out. I didn’t get one until later in life and I recall looking around and struggling to meet eye contact and have conversations because everyone’s head was down looking at their phone. It’s hard to fully know the ramifications, as the smart phone is relatively new in human history. The happiest and most progress I’ve made in life is when I have not had access to the inter webs. There has to be a happy medium, yet similarly, is it feeding into a part of gratification that is silly to expect humans to fully exhibit self-control? I hope this conversation can be continued.
I miss presence in humanity. When I went to a farm I lived on a couple of months ago, there was no service and it stands like a cathedral in my memory.
xoxo
Most interesting podcast I have listened to in 2022. Good work Chris
Phenomenal conversation....as a musician I've found this degradation of attention to be very destructive...it's become increasingly difficult for ppl to learn and instrument....there's more knowledge.. tutorials..courses than ever but the attention to focus on one consistently and work towards a goal just isn't there
Wow what an interview! Managed to give it nearly my full attention for the whole 1:52. YT is my main vice. Thankfully I never installed IG, TikTok, twitter. Thanks for giving me some inspiration and tools. Going to search my library for your book Johann.
Amazing interview! Thanks for all fantastic guests you bring on your show. ❤
So much quality packed into this chat!👏
The part about the edge of your abilities for flow state is very close to what Jordan Peterson says about being in the middle between order and chaos
Thank you so much for this, Chris ❤
COLD TURKEY AND LOCK BOXES ARE MY JAM !!! Shit has legit saved me over the last 18 months.
This was a fantastic talk, I truly learned a lot.
What a great discussion. Thank you for letting me set in.
Superb episode , full of brilliant Johann quotes , nice one , thank you .
I really enjoyed listening to this in the background whilst I played video games
Another absolutely phenomenal interview brother. Your style is so poignant and you never interrupt or distract the guest, so I think you're right about your podcast flow state, you've got the attention piece downpat here.
This was a very insightful and eye opening discussion for me, I have been seriously reconsidering my social media/internet use for years, but found it so difficult to move away from, mostly because everyone is doing it as well. I think you guys are totally right that there needs to be a societal shift away from this, and it all starts like women voting, or lead out of gasoline, or Mothers Against Drunk Driving does: by normal people saying we're not doing this anymore and demanding a change, but also practicing one themselves.
Possibly the most important podcast this year......ok, i know it's not been a long one so far.
even on ytb i find myself reading the comments rather than watching the videos. i'm working on dedigitising my life!
I’d like to just brag real quick and say I’m pretty sure I absorbed every word of this conversation.
I had to rewind like 50 times though
Excellent discussion on the topic but what needs to be addressed especially when it comes to things like ADHD and the general decline in people's attention is *we should not be so hard on ourselves when we find things that are boring!*
Johann Hari, I love your honesty and passion. Thank you
I just felt drowsy, it's early in the morning, I have no energy/focus. Hari said: It might well be air pollotion. I open all my windows, within literally one minute I feel awake, a surge of energy overcomes me. wow.
i love this modern wisdom
You are doing great Chris. Much appreciated buddy
If you can listen to this whole 2hr discussion, then maybe you didn’t need it after all. Very interesting content, but I believe it was Walter Mischel at Stanford in the 60s who came up with the original Marshmallow Test.
I’m happy Pickleball got a mention. Pickleball and golf are the two things where I could actually achieve a flow state.
This is so interesting and enlightening. Thank you both💚
YES! Love this guy! Haven't watched it yet, but THANK YOU for talking with him!
Great podcast. Loved the book. I’ve been listening to a lot of your podcasts lately and just signed up to your mailing list too. Really enjoy your content Chris, keep up the outstanding work 👍
I'm giving this video a thumbs up just because Johann gave us a Bubba the Love Sponge reference. If you grew up in Florida in the 90s you know.
Listening to this while I multitask a workout and tidying up my room
Hari did a great episode on Joe Rogan. Looking forward to this
I’d enjoy having a beer with this dude. Dry and blunt sense of humour by the looks of it.
i was thinking about this video and Johann's topic near the end of a 3 hour car journey... loads of us spend hours driving or something so it's obvious that we /CAN/ still concentrate on one task for hours, if we are stuck outside piloting a fast dangerous metal box miles away from home.
there must be so many other tasks like this where you concentrate because you HAVE to.
This is so interesting. My son is 9 years old. I had put Willy Wonka &The Chocolate Factory. He kept getting up to do something else. He wouldn't sit still for a movie I saw at the same age. So I put a kids movie on Netflix it was about 1.30 hour. He actually sat through this and it had more explosion and action. It got to the point quickly then he said this was great 👍🏾! I noticed the length of movies I watched as a child I would sit still to retain the moral of the story. It bothered me I assumed it was my son. But this video shed light bro what is really going on.
This was a great podcast. Thanks!
The "medium is the message" is a really effective quote. Just look at the war in Ukraine. Most of the news even in mainstream media are in forms of tiktok styled video clips. In contrast, the Iraq/afganistan war was more tv news styled. Wars before that were news paper news styled.
57:26 The Wire is amazing, and it also requires your full attention but in the end it will be rewarding.
Awesome Podcast! thanks for sharing
THIS IS SO GOOD THANK YOU!!!
Instant gratification society.
Comment for the algorithm! :-) another great conversation Chris.
I thoroughly enjoyed this - thank you
I stayed more focused watching this podcast than any movie of seen lately. Absolutely and thoroughly enjoyed this conversation. Favourite quote: "We own our own minds and we can take them back from the fuckers who stole them..."
I'm at the point in the interview where he says you can't read a book in the Battle of the Somme. Ernst Jünger did, if not at the Somme, at which, incidentally, he was present, then at some such battle during the First World War. I quote from a blog called 'The Pierian Spring': "On his last battle, which nearly sees him killed, Jünger leisurely reads what has been airdropped by the English to taunt the Germans. Right before the attack that nearly kills him Jünger naps and reads Laurence Sterne’s Tristram Shandy!" In an interview I read, Jünger claims the book was more memorable than the battle. Anyway, enjoying the interview. Cheers!
Lol but how many of us would volunteer to be foxhole buddies with someone known to do that?
This was lovely 🙏🏼😎 thanks
Awesome interview and ditto topic.
Daniel Levitin is the godfather of all of this - his book The Organised Mind absolutely changed my life back around 2015 or so. He’s a must for the show if you can get him on. His other book This Is Your Brain On Music is another classic
Just pre ordered "Stolen Focus", due out January 25th.
I'd love to see you guys do a review of the book Scattered Minds by Dr Gabor mate, and have this conversation again with the knowledge from that book in mind! It discusses in detail how trauma can change your brain and cause you to constantly be in that hypervigilant state Johann was talking about, and how it makes focus nearly impossible.
I refuse to be a phone zombie - for me personally. But I see it, everybody sees it, people can't even watch TV without that phone in their hand. They are not multi-tasking; nothing actually gets done. Happens to me too when I'm on youtube or Rumble too much.
My attention is so bad that I'm about to be assessed for ADHD on Monday and I'm in my 30s! Having said that, I've done a number of degrees and am currently doing a PhD, so I don't necessarily agree that you can't achieve anything if you have a bad attention span, but it does make life significantly harder and makes completing any task take sooo much longer than it needs to take. For me, my poor attention span causes me distress a lot of the time. I can think back to when I was younger and can see traits of ADHD then, but I agree that the current conditions we live in has probably caused my attention to be significantly worse.
Re social media, I'm so glad that I've never been into Twitter and I refuse to get Tik Tok. I deactivated Facebook last year but still have Instagram, unfortunately (just can't bring myself to get rid of it). UA-cam is my biggest weakness. I'm 100% down for banning together to combat the issues with social media!
Last thing - good discussion! Johann scared me a bit, but in a good way 😅
True it took almost a week to watch this video, and can barely recall what this is about