Great video to watch if you're building one, like I am. Mine failed miserably. I now see that it's because the 400kV module I bought is a "tesla coil" and hence AC in nature. I couldn't use my DMM to determine this, so you may wonder, "how does he know"? A: I took a flourescent lamp an put it nearby; it lit up. DC does not do that. That 400kV module you might see on other UA-cam videos doesn't work for this purpose. Also, I found out that it runs on 3.6Vdc at about 1.8 amps. So you need a power supply that can supply this. They don't have any documents for it, and I don't know who makes it. I just bought it for cheap from some place in China (eBay or Amazon, I forgot which). I'll try to find a pure DC supply in the ranges mentioned in this video: 20kV to 30kV. I'll also play around with the distance. I have mine set at 3.75 inches to keep it from arcing. This might be too far. I realize DC is the main problem. I tried rectifying with a diode, but that still didn't help. It needs to be pure DC just like this video shows. Thank you RimstarOrg for your video.
Have you tried multi stages of negative screens (2 or 3)? With about 2 times the negative screens (4 or 6) for the positive screens instead of foil above to catch the smoke.
No, I haven't. Electrically speaking though, the meshes further along would be blocked or mostly blocked by the first mesh so they wouldn't be involved in attracting the particles. But certainly you can put other filters in that path that aren't involved electrically. Good idea.
I would like to see how the filter behave over use, and what cleaning it would be like! The cube supply probably is just low in voltage. There isn't just one diode at the output, it's a winding split in sections with diodes (diode split transformer). There is enough capacitance to do reasonable filtering. If you want more filtering, add a HV capacitor. (adding a shield to the HV cable does the trick somewhat too) But you are right about the high voltage probe not being high bandwidth. By the way, did you make sure the input impedance of the meter was 10 MOhm? Meassurements will be more or less off, if you don't. I will have to recheck your cube supply video, but I recall it being "ZVS" and not a classic flyback converter (single transistor, and a PWM controller). The "ZVS" circuit isn't knowing for generating great voltage, but does lots of current.
The foil/filter has a brown coating on it after a while. Cleaning it with just a damp rag doesn't work, but I'm sure there's some cleaning agent I could use that would do it. Yes, the manual for the meter says its input impedance 10 MOhm. Doesn't a ZVS use MOSFETs? I'm not very familiar with ZVS but from the schematics I just looked at it doesn't seem to have the flyback windings, which mine does. The schematic for mine is here rimstar.org/science_electronics_projects/high_voltage_power_supply_w_flyback_transformer_builtin_diodes.htm.
I was refering to en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flyback_converter It's the driver type that get the most output voltage from a single diode rectified gapped ferrite transformer. What have you meassured the output of the cube supply as? The scope is 1 MOhm and would overload the probe into inaccuracy. There are scope probes for high voltage, but they are likely outside the price range your interest in knowing would accept. It will only be pulsed under heavy load, so should be easy to meassure. (you underestimate the capacitance of the circuit at high voltage) The residue, I would guess it's oil based. So oil or oil svolvent would remove it. (water won't, accetone, etanol e.t.c. would)
Oh, I've never seen that flyback converter circuit before. When you said classic flyback circuit I thought you meant the single transistor version of the one I'm using (www.powerlabs.org/flybackdriver.htm). Thanks for clarifying. At 20 volts DC input with no load I measured the output as 20kV with a little ripple. That was done with the same Fluke 80K-40 high voltage probe that I show in this video, though when I did it I used my scope which also have 10 MOhm impedance. You can see me making the measurement here ua-cam.com/video/-KFhBVfpfDw/v-deo.htmlm21s in the video where I show how I made the power supply. It's after I made that video that I suspected the output was really pulsed. After you guys are bringing it up I'm not sure again :).
On the website you have mentioned that when paarticles pass through mesh, they get negatively charged and while passing through cylinder, they get attracted towards the walls of it, but the electrostatic force inside the cylinder will be 0, so how it is possible?
Good question. I think you mean that if the cylinder is like a Faraday bucket then there would be no electrostatic force inside it. I think the cylinder is open enough at both ends so that it doesn't act much like a Faraday bucket.
hi, thanks for your nice nice and complete information. can we use DC flyback? could you please explain about your DC power supply? do you use voltage multiplier?
Flybacks put out AC. You need something extra to turn their output into DC. The Cube power supply that I use starting at 2:04, the one that didn't work, has a flyback followed by a diode built into the flyback. That diode turns the output into pulsed DC. Details for making that one are on my webpage here rimstar.org/science_electronics_projects/high_voltage_power_supply_w_flyback_transformer_builtin_diodes.htm. The flat DC power supply that I use starting at 0:11 has a flyback with no built in diode (very hard to find) has a voltage multiplier after it that turns the output into flat DC. Details for making that one are on my webpage here rimstar.org/equip/30kv_pwr_supply.htm.
Thanks for the video. It seems you've designed the cube and the high voltage DC generator in the same way. So why is only the cube generating pulse DC? What could be done to smooth it out? Thanks
To make the cube's output be flat DC, a high voltage capacitor could be added between the output and ground. The cube and the high voltage DC generator are the same except for the very last part. After the flyback transformer, the cube has only a single diode, which is what turns the AC from the transformer into pulsed DC. But for the high voltage DC power supply, after the flyback transformer is a Cockcroft-Walton voltage multiplier circuit that steps up the voltage and also smooths it out to flat DC.
Thank you. Do you think this pulse is causing the precipitator not to work? Seems odd to me, as the average voltage applied to smoke particles would still be several kV, so should be enough to charge the majority of them and capture most of the smoke. Don't you think so?
I don't know. I've only tried smoke. Note that this design does produce a harmful gas, ozone, and so you have to make sure it is ventilated to outside.
is the negative one a ground or negative high voltage with repect to ground? and what will happen if we increase the are or dimension of percepitator? thanks, and God bless!
The negative one which is connected to the mesh is connected to ground but since there's a positive voltage (with respect to ground) on the foil, that attracts electrons from the ground to the negative mesh. So the mesh is negative with respect to ground. You can scale this sort of thing up since it's often used for industrial applications en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrostatic_precipitator
I don't know exactly. All I know is that the visible particles in the smoke from the incense stick and flames were captured. In a flame that's the soot (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soot).
Which Wimshurst machine do you mean? The homemade CD Wimshurst machine I show at 3:47 can't be used for the smoke precipitator but the larger commercially made one I show at 3:57 can be used for the smoke precipitator.
hy there... I m trying to build a smoke precipitator for my lazer cutter any advice or ideas that you could chair please i tryed many stuff and i build the hight voltage from the monitor of an old pc ( atually your idea as well lol ) but cant seem to understand what is going wrong either the material is wrong or the distance.... i would really be glad for an advice as my work has stopped cos of the fumes , thank you very much
There's nothing else I can think of to point out besides what I've said in my two videos about it. Did you test with a normal flame (from a candle or match or lighter) to see if it's working at all? If it works with a normal flame then it's possible that it doesn't work with the particulates from your laser cutter. It's great as a science experiment but I'd also caution against using this for long periods of time. At these voltages, it produces ozone, which is hazardous to your health with long exposure. So you'd need ventilation anyway. At some voltage below 10,000 volts (I don't know what voltage), it doesn't produce ozone and that's what the commercially made, store-bought ionizers use.
Rimstar, i made a voltage multiplier with capacitors and diode. it produce quite a high voltage as i can hear the corona discharge near the end. my trouble is that i tried to make an Electrostatic Precipitator with it, but it just doesnt work. is that because the output is pulsed? is there a way to smooth it? i dont know how since its such a high voltage.
With a voltage multiplier as the last part of the circuit at the output, the output should be flat DC with a little bit of ripple. That's the same as my 30kV power supply which worked with this precipitator. That's assuming that by voltage multiplier, you're talking about one of these circuits en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cockcroft%E2%80%93Walton_generator. Your problem may be elsewhere. What are you using for the mesh? It needs to be metal, thinnish wires, and not coated with anything. How close together are your mesh and cylinder? The closer they are the better it'll work but if you start producing sparks then they're too close, as I show in this video. If you think your power supply might be damaged by the sparks then I'd suggest adding around 240 kilohms of resistance in series with the grounded wire going to the mesh (the resistor(s) should be rated for at least 2 watts). I show that in this other video at around three minutes and thirty-eight seconds in ua-cam.com/video/r32e0QGdm8U/v-deo.html Since it works with a Wimshurst machine then I'd think that even a weak electrical power supply would be able to supply the needed voltage and current, but that may be the problem too. Unfortunately I never measured the current as that's difficult to do.
@@RimstarOrg thank you very much for your anwser, yes its a Cockcroft-Walton generator, i used a 4inch galvanised air duct pipe as the outer surface and a lenght of 14ga~ thick steel wire for the inner emmiter. the whole thing was about 50cm long. sadly as you pointed out i think the spacing between the emmiter and outer surface is too big (5cm?). i tried to replicate the arrangement found in commercial electrostatic presipitator upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ab/Inside_of_the_electrostatic_precipitator.jpg your setup is very interesting, but i want to make a air purifier so having the collecting surface easily cleanable was a must. i will try to make another prototype since you steered me in the right direction. again thank you. have you had any experience with the little 2$ negative ion module sold on ebay? my first thought was to use one on this project, but since the postal service is stopped i never received it. (i ordered in september).
I tried that design of precipitator first but couldn't get it to work so I came up with the design in the video instead. Beware that at the voltages needed to make mine work (21,000 volts), ozone is produced. In large quantities it's harmful to your health. The ionizing air purifiers sold in stores using some voltage between 1000V and 10,000V where ozone isn't produced but I don't know what that voltage is. As for the $2 negative ion modules, I don't know.
Hi! Thanks so much for this video ! i'm now studying about the subject as i'll make a prototype of a smoke precipitator in a couple of weeks, I was wondering where I could get a commercial DC source just for testing (I'm in uk ), I want to check the requirements needed to achieve the smoke capture that I need and after that I'll look or design the definitive DC source. Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated :)
I know there's a difference in ion mobility between positive and negative ions that may have a small effect but I'm not sure it applies to charged particles the size that we're dealing with here. Here's the experiment about it jnaudin.free.fr/pcnpend/html/pcespend.htm.
Do you have a link to the generator? If it's AC output then it won't work. It has to be DC. If it's one like this www.ebay.com/itm/DC-3v-6v-to-400kV-400000V-Boost-Step-up-Power-Module-High-voltage-Generator/302127640955 then I strongly suspect it's output is AC and so it won't work.
Oh, I have a digital one, and while I could use it for this, the HV probe's connectors fit perfectly in my analog meters sockets. I have clipped onto the probe's connectors with my oscilloscope though.
You would need a 30kV capacitor. You'd also need a 30kV diode. I think you can find parts for a microwave oven that are in this range. Try Digikey to see what the "state of thee art" is.
You'd have to build something since nothing in a home produces anywhere near that voltage. The easiest to make is probably the Wimshurst machine which I show in this video, though I bought mine from ebay.com. I have a video on how to make one but it's a smaller one which isn't powerful enough for this smoke precipitator.
:) Yeah, I guess I didn't really point out that this is a follow-up video to the one where I talk about it more and show how to make one ua-cam.com/video/x5YFK8mmeRQ/v-deo.html. It's something that captures the particulates from smoke. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrostatic_precipitator I was getting so many comments on that video asking what the required voltage is and what can power it that I got tired of guessing and decided to measure it, and of course make a video at the same time.
Smoke enters the bottom. The screen ionizes smoke particles. The ionized smoke particles are attracted to the metal cylinder where they stick. This video is actually a follow-up video to the one where I show how it works and how to make it ua-cam.com/video/oD_8_NZJF48/v-deo.html.
Try making 'make you smart' videos. You have very good knowledge. By the way, when are you visiting India? I am your big fan and want to meet you. And do you do full time video making or something else thanks and nice work
Hey Hi, have you heard about the venus project? cause the technologies you describe are related to what the venus project advocates. they have a website at www.thevenusproject.com
I don't know what hot smoke is. If the smoke is soot particles then it should absorb them. Keep in mind that this also produces ozone, which in large quantities is hazardous to your health so if you're doing more than just an experiment then make sure to use in a well ventilated area.
Short answer, I can't say for sure. Long answer... I found this www.amazon.ca/MonkeyJack-3-7V-7-4V-Generator-Transformer-Inverter/dp/B0769CQTJH which I guess is the one you're talking about. The 400kV is a lie since there's no way that produces 400kV, based on the spark lengths in the youtube videos I've seen of these, so I can't trust it's output ratings of 400kV and 0.5A. Looking at the input ratings, 3.7V-7.4V/4A and comparing that to what I measure at 8 minutes and 40 seconds into my power supply video here ua-cam.com/video/GEuK1OdYxHk/v-deo.html, it looks promising.
RimstarOrg sir now I know that 20kv can be generated by using 800kv boost converter ,,,so should I use it in smoke precipitater..??? And sir is there any way to deal with the ozone emitted.....???
Oh, sorry. I get asked so many questions about powering lifters that even though I know you're asking about smoke precipitators, my brain is still thinking about the requirements for lifters. Groan. However, I don't know if those boost converters are producing AC, pulsed DC or flat DC. I know AC won't work. From my test with my Cube power supply in this video, I suspect pulsed DC doesn't work either. So that leaves flat DC. I don't know for sure, but I suspect those boost converters are not producing flat DC. The high frequency sparks in videos I've seen of them in the past look like either pulsed DC or AC. So my guess is that no, those boost converters won't work. If they are producing flat DC, which I don't think they are, then they should work.
RimstarOrg sir I want to make your power supply system to get the input voltage from a battery,,, so should I go for it or will it result in any kind of trouble???
you can measure the hv output of the flyback transformer with a hv resister devider 100x 10 ohms resisters in series and run the hv out to one end and measure the voltage across the last resister with digital meter set to 600 volts
Isn't that pretty much what my high voltage probe is already doing, though with different values? When I did that I got the flat DC, with ripple, that I showed in this video 2:22. Since it wasn't what I expected for pulsed DC I just assumed that there's a capacitance somewhere in the measurement setup that's smoothing the pulses.
Assume that the Cube ps is powered by a 48 volt homemade solar panel; would it work with the mesh and cylinder set 2 inches apart? If so, won't it damage the Cube?
If it sparks with a 2 inch spacing then it probably would damage the Cube. The amount of charge that would build up before sparking at that distance would result in a lot of current in the spark.
I don't know how much charge or current, just the voltage which I measured in this video (21,000 volts). However, if you go to ebay.com and search for "wimshurst machine", all the ones that come up will do just as well as mine. If you're unsure then pick one and reply with the link and I'll confirm it. I bought mine from ebay. Here's an example www.ebay.com/itm/Wimshurst-Machine-Physics-Electrostatic-Generator-Model-Educational-Toy/233080929666?hash=item3644b4bd82:g:Du8AAOSw9g1cL00y:rk:2:pf:1&frcectupt=true
No, I found it difficult to remove from the aluminum foil afterward. It forms as a film, but one that's stuck on fairly well. One thing that may help would be to cover the aluminum foil with something like paper towel material. That way the film would collect on the paper towel and you could just remove it from the foil and throw it away. Basically it would act like a filter.
The plastic jar has a radius of around 3.75cm or 1.5 inches. The foil cylinder has a radius of around 3cm or 1.25 inches. However, I'd suggest just getting whatever plastic jar you can find and use that and then have the aluminum foil cylinder be whatever dimension that allows you to fit it in the jar with some space between it and the inside of the jar. My dimensions were picked based on what I had available.
I don't see why that wouldn't work. Keep in mind that the voltage will be lower when you flatter the pulsed DC so you'd have to make sure to start with a higher voltage than you need.
I don't know the quantity of ozone but you can definitely smell it so it's more than normal. How much is harmful, I don't know. A different design that works with a lower voltage wouldn't produce ozone. There's some voltage below 10,000 volts where you don't produce ozone. I don't know what it is though.
I don't know your skill level so it's hard to say... You could make an electroscope and do experiments with it: ua-cam.com/video/2PmWlPjV6n0/v-deo.html ua-cam.com/video/-JsVZwc1dOo/v-deo.html You could do a Franklin's bell. There are all sorts of ways to power that: ua-cam.com/video/cjlMrSlIIIQ/v-deo.html ua-cam.com/video/niRCKUliQWs/v-deo.html ua-cam.com/video/fEqudsyIWzk/v-deo.html Corona motor: ua-cam.com/video/ksp_O_1WmvA/v-deo.html Note that all of the above can use this simple power source, triboelectricity: ua-cam.com/video/ey88EdZo9hU/v-deo.html Pyramid hologram and pepper's ghost: ua-cam.com/video/UFhhIOaGW7U/v-deo.html ua-cam.com/video/shZUI6B5bZw/v-deo.html And there are plenty more if you scroll through all my videos. But the above are a sample that anyone can do.
I didn't measure the distance between the mesh and cylinder for the Wimshurst machine, since it worked, but judging from earlier in the video when I did make measurements it was probably just under 1 inch/2.5cm. But as you saw, I made it adjustable so you should probably do that too. I have an earlier video where I show all the making of the precipitator ua-cam.com/video/x5YFK8mmeRQ/v-deo.html.
If you get sparks with 29,000V then simply increase the distance between the mesh and the foil cylinder. So it's not too much. However, keep in mind that you also need current. I don't know how much though. But it's probably not very much since, as you saw in this video, I got it working with a Wimshurst machine, which doesn't produce a lot of current.
If you have the parts then the smoke precipitator would take only around 1 hour. It's the power supply that's the tricky part to make/get. Buying a Wimshurst machine like the one I show in the video would be the easiest approach.
Yes, you can ionize air without having sparks. This is usually done by one or both of the electrodes having sharp points. The charges get crowded together at the sharp points and cause the electric field in the nearby air to be strong enough to breakdown the air and cause charge to flow easily into the air and ionize it. So there's never a build up of charge on the electrodes which would result in the sudden rush of charge across the gap which would be the spark. A good analogy is a bottle of water. If you put a small hole in the bottle then water can leak out. If you keep putting more and more water into the bottle, the bottle may not burst because some is always leaking out. Of course that depends on how much leaks out. But if there was no leak and you kept putting more and more water in, eventually the bottle would burst from the pressure of all the water and you'd get a sudden rush of water out of the bottle, like a spark.
Oh, and in the precipitator, the "sharp points" are the thin wires of the mesh. The thin wire isn't really a sharp point but it's thin enough to have the same effect.
Ok I understand the thing. However, isn't in the aluminum paper that the discharges occur ? Because in your other video about the precipitator, u're showing the coronna discharges that seem to come from the aluminum.
I'm not sure where the visible light starts from, but it makes sense that it would be the aluminum foil since that's the smooth electrode. That's the electrode which will have built up the most charge without leaking first.
I didn't measure the current. Measuring current with high voltage is hard to do. However, given that the Wimshurst machine worked (the machine with the rotating disks), the current isn't huge.
Great video to watch if you're building one, like I am. Mine failed miserably. I now see that it's because the 400kV module I bought is a "tesla coil" and hence AC in nature.
I couldn't use my DMM to determine this, so you may wonder, "how does he know"? A: I took a flourescent lamp an put it nearby; it lit up. DC does not do that.
That 400kV module you might see on other UA-cam videos doesn't work for this purpose. Also, I found out that it runs on 3.6Vdc at about 1.8 amps. So you need a power supply that can supply this. They don't have any documents for it, and I don't know who makes it. I just bought it for cheap from some place in China (eBay or Amazon, I forgot which).
I'll try to find a pure DC supply in the ranges mentioned in this video: 20kV to 30kV. I'll also play around with the distance. I have mine set at 3.75 inches to keep it from arcing. This might be too far. I realize DC is the main problem. I tried rectifying with a diode, but that still didn't help. It needs to be pure DC just like this video shows.
Thank you RimstarOrg for your video.
Well done, great editing!
Thanks!
Aaaa
Great scientist! I loved your vids. Thanks.
Have you tried multi stages of negative screens (2 or 3)? With about 2 times the negative screens (4 or 6) for the positive screens instead of foil above to catch the smoke.
No, I haven't. Electrically speaking though, the meshes further along would be blocked or mostly blocked by the first mesh so they wouldn't be involved in attracting the particles. But certainly you can put other filters in that path that aren't involved electrically. Good idea.
super cool
Thanks.
I would like to see how the filter behave over use, and what cleaning it would be like!
The cube supply probably is just low in voltage.
There isn't just one diode at the output, it's a winding split in sections with diodes (diode split transformer). There is enough capacitance to do reasonable filtering.
If you want more filtering, add a HV capacitor.
(adding a shield to the HV cable does the trick somewhat too)
But you are right about the high voltage probe not being high bandwidth.
By the way, did you make sure the input impedance of the meter was 10 MOhm?
Meassurements will be more or less off, if you don't.
I will have to recheck your cube supply video, but I recall it being "ZVS" and not a classic flyback converter (single transistor, and a PWM controller).
The "ZVS" circuit isn't knowing for generating great voltage, but does lots of current.
The foil/filter has a brown coating on it after a while. Cleaning it with just a damp rag doesn't work, but I'm sure there's some cleaning agent I could use that would do it.
Yes, the manual for the meter says its input impedance 10 MOhm.
Doesn't a ZVS use MOSFETs? I'm not very familiar with ZVS but from the schematics I just looked at it doesn't seem to have the flyback windings, which mine does. The schematic for mine is here rimstar.org/science_electronics_projects/high_voltage_power_supply_w_flyback_transformer_builtin_diodes.htm.
I was refering to en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flyback_converter
It's the driver type that get the most output voltage from a single diode rectified gapped ferrite transformer.
What have you meassured the output of the cube supply as? The scope is 1 MOhm and would overload the probe into inaccuracy.
There are scope probes for high voltage, but they are likely outside the price range your interest in knowing would accept.
It will only be pulsed under heavy load, so should be easy to meassure.
(you underestimate the capacitance of the circuit at high voltage)
The residue, I would guess it's oil based.
So oil or oil svolvent would remove it.
(water won't, accetone, etanol e.t.c. would)
Oh, I've never seen that flyback converter circuit before. When you said classic flyback circuit I thought you meant the single transistor version of the one I'm using (www.powerlabs.org/flybackdriver.htm). Thanks for clarifying.
At 20 volts DC input with no load I measured the output as 20kV with a little ripple. That was done with the same Fluke 80K-40 high voltage probe that I show in this video, though when I did it I used my scope which also have 10 MOhm impedance. You can see me making the measurement here ua-cam.com/video/-KFhBVfpfDw/v-deo.htmlm21s in the video where I show how I made the power supply. It's after I made that video that I suspected the output was really pulsed. After you guys are bringing it up I'm not sure again :).
Very interesting, indeed.
On the website you have mentioned that when paarticles pass through mesh, they get negatively charged and while passing through cylinder, they get attracted towards the walls of it, but the electrostatic force inside the cylinder will be 0, so how it is possible?
Good question. I think you mean that if the cylinder is like a Faraday bucket then there would be no electrostatic force inside it. I think the cylinder is open enough at both ends so that it doesn't act much like a Faraday bucket.
hi, thanks for your nice nice and complete information.
can we use DC flyback?
could you please explain about your DC power supply?
do you use voltage multiplier?
Flybacks put out AC. You need something extra to turn their output into DC.
The Cube power supply that I use starting at 2:04, the one that didn't work, has a flyback followed by a diode built into the flyback. That diode turns the output into pulsed DC. Details for making that one are on my webpage here rimstar.org/science_electronics_projects/high_voltage_power_supply_w_flyback_transformer_builtin_diodes.htm.
The flat DC power supply that I use starting at 0:11 has a flyback with no built in diode (very hard to find) has a voltage multiplier after it that turns the output into flat DC. Details for making that one are on my webpage here rimstar.org/equip/30kv_pwr_supply.htm.
well done! :-)
you deserve a lot more recognition!!
Thanks for the video. It seems you've designed the cube and the high voltage DC generator in the same way. So why is only the cube generating pulse DC? What could be done to smooth it out? Thanks
To make the cube's output be flat DC, a high voltage capacitor could be added between the output and ground.
The cube and the high voltage DC generator are the same except for the very last part. After the flyback transformer, the cube has only a single diode, which is what turns the AC from the transformer into pulsed DC. But for the high voltage DC power supply, after the flyback transformer is a Cockcroft-Walton voltage multiplier circuit that steps up the voltage and also smooths it out to flat DC.
Thank you. Do you think this pulse is causing the precipitator not to work? Seems odd to me, as the average voltage applied to smoke particles would still be several kV, so should be enough to charge the majority of them and capture most of the smoke. Don't you think so?
It's the only thing that I can see what would be causing it to not work. Maybe the average voltage isn't enough. Maybe there's a slight AC component.
What types of gases can be eliminated thru this method?
I don't know. I've only tried smoke. Note that this design does produce a harmful gas, ozone, and so you have to make sure it is ventilated to outside.
is the negative one a ground or negative high voltage with repect to ground? and what will happen if we increase the are or dimension of percepitator? thanks, and God bless!
The negative one which is connected to the mesh is connected to ground but since there's a positive voltage (with respect to ground) on the foil, that attracts electrons from the ground to the negative mesh. So the mesh is negative with respect to ground. You can scale this sort of thing up since it's often used for industrial applications en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrostatic_precipitator
Can I use hv capacitor in parallel to smoothen the plused dc voltage?
Sir what is the composition of air obtained after purification by smoke precipitator,,,,,,,,what are the things got precipitated????
I don't know exactly. All I know is that the visible particles in the smoke from the incense stick and flames were captured. In a flame that's the soot (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soot).
Can i use a 3v to 400kv voltage booster for high voltage supply.
Pls reply
That depends on if the output is DC or AC. For this to work it has to be DC.
@@RimstarOrg yeah it is DC output only.
What happens if I use ac.
If you use AC then it simply won't work. You'll be alternately pushing and pulling and getting nowhere.
@@RimstarOrg
Can I use the mosquito bat circuit as high voltage source .But it's output is ac ,how to convert that ac to dc .
Pls reply
The output of the mosquito bat circuit is DC. The diode makes it DC. However, I suspect that its current may be too little.
can this wimshurst machine be used for the smoke precipitator or electostatic precipitator
Which Wimshurst machine do you mean? The homemade CD Wimshurst machine I show at 3:47 can't be used for the smoke precipitator but the larger commercially made one I show at 3:57 can be used for the smoke precipitator.
How much the cost of your power supply ?
Sorry but I don't know because it was all gathered from parts I already had plus some which I bought.
hy there... I m trying to build a smoke precipitator for my lazer cutter any advice or ideas that you could chair please i tryed many stuff and i build the hight voltage from the monitor of an old pc ( atually your idea as well lol ) but cant seem to understand what is going wrong either the material is wrong or the distance.... i would really be glad for an advice as my work has stopped cos of the fumes , thank you very much
There's nothing else I can think of to point out besides what I've said in my two videos about it. Did you test with a normal flame (from a candle or match or lighter) to see if it's working at all? If it works with a normal flame then it's possible that it doesn't work with the particulates from your laser cutter.
It's great as a science experiment but I'd also caution against using this for long periods of time. At these voltages, it produces ozone, which is hazardous to your health with long exposure. So you'd need ventilation anyway. At some voltage below 10,000 volts (I don't know what voltage), it doesn't produce ozone and that's what the commercially made, store-bought ionizers use.
Rimstar, i made a voltage multiplier with capacitors and diode. it produce quite a high voltage as i can hear the corona discharge near the end. my trouble is that i tried to make an Electrostatic Precipitator with it, but it just doesnt work. is that because the output is pulsed? is there a way to smooth it? i dont know how since its such a high voltage.
With a voltage multiplier as the last part of the circuit at the output, the output should be flat DC with a little bit of ripple. That's the same as my 30kV power supply which worked with this precipitator. That's assuming that by voltage multiplier, you're talking about one of these circuits en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cockcroft%E2%80%93Walton_generator. Your problem may be elsewhere.
What are you using for the mesh? It needs to be metal, thinnish wires, and not coated with anything.
How close together are your mesh and cylinder? The closer they are the better it'll work but if you start producing sparks then they're too close, as I show in this video.
If you think your power supply might be damaged by the sparks then I'd suggest adding around 240 kilohms of resistance in series with the grounded wire going to the mesh (the resistor(s) should be rated for at least 2 watts). I show that in this other video at around three minutes and thirty-eight seconds in ua-cam.com/video/r32e0QGdm8U/v-deo.html
Since it works with a Wimshurst machine then I'd think that even a weak electrical power supply would be able to supply the needed voltage and current, but that may be the problem too. Unfortunately I never measured the current as that's difficult to do.
@@RimstarOrg thank you very much for your anwser, yes its a Cockcroft-Walton generator, i used a 4inch galvanised air duct pipe as the outer surface and a lenght of 14ga~ thick steel wire for the inner emmiter. the whole thing was about 50cm long. sadly as you pointed out i think the spacing between the emmiter and outer surface is too big (5cm?). i tried to replicate the arrangement found in commercial electrostatic presipitator upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ab/Inside_of_the_electrostatic_precipitator.jpg
your setup is very interesting, but i want to make a air purifier so having the collecting surface easily cleanable was a must. i will try to make another prototype since you steered me in the right direction. again thank you.
have you had any experience with the little 2$ negative ion module sold on ebay? my first thought was to use one on this project, but since the postal service is stopped i never received it. (i ordered in september).
I tried that design of precipitator first but couldn't get it to work so I came up with the design in the video instead.
Beware that at the voltages needed to make mine work (21,000 volts), ozone is produced. In large quantities it's harmful to your health. The ionizing air purifiers sold in stores using some voltage between 1000V and 10,000V where ozone isn't produced but I don't know what that voltage is.
As for the $2 negative ion modules, I don't know.
Please you can tell if I will use 12 volt of power supply then it will work or not
No, you need at least 21,000 volts. The easiest is probably to buy a Wimshurst machine like the one I used in this video from ebay.com
Hi! Thanks so much for this video ! i'm now studying about the subject as i'll make a prototype of a smoke precipitator in a couple of weeks, I was wondering where I could get a commercial DC source just for testing (I'm in uk ), I want to check the requirements needed to achieve the smoke capture that I need and after that I'll look or design the definitive DC source. Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated :)
Here's a reliable source www.amazing1.com/hv-dc-power-supplies.html. I'm not familiar with any in the UK but that doesn't mean there aren't any.
Thank you ! is it any difference in the performance using a negative or possitive power source ?
I know there's a difference in ion mobility between positive and negative ions that may have a small effect but I'm not sure it applies to charged particles the size that we're dealing with here. Here's the experiment about it jnaudin.free.fr/pcnpend/html/pcespend.htm.
Thank you ! already reading it :)
I have a flyswatter it has about 2-3 kV and when I smell it from close I can smell ozone.
will air flow affect the output?
Air flow would affect it if the flow prevented the smoke from getting in or if the flow was in between the mesh and the cylinder.
Cool
what happens if we put 9v hw battery power supply
The output going to the precipitator needs high voltage, as I measure in this video. 9v is no where near enough.
Are you aware or is it possible to turn cigarette smoke into a gas
does it work on 10000V
No, this design needs 21,000 V.
so after the source of smoke completely burned, the aluminium foil becomes black?
Yes, except that it becomes a dirty brown.
Can anyone tell did it worked with a 3v to 400kv generator or not
Should I order it or not
Please someone reply
Fast
Do you have a link to the generator? If it's AC output then it won't work. It has to be DC. If it's one like this www.ebay.com/itm/DC-3v-6v-to-400kV-400000V-Boost-Step-up-Power-Module-High-voltage-Generator/302127640955 then I strongly suspect it's output is AC and so it won't work.
Yah dude, pls upgrade the multimeeta to a digital one! PS: Edit: Oh! I knew the analog might tolerate the high voltage...
Oh, I have a digital one, and while I could use it for this, the HV probe's connectors fit perfectly in my analog meters sockets. I have clipped onto the probe's connectors with my oscilloscope though.
You would need a 30kV capacitor. You'd also need a 30kV diode. I think you can find parts for a microwave oven that are in this range. Try Digikey to see what the "state of thee art" is.
How to get that 21kv to 30kv electricity at home
You'd have to build something since nothing in a home produces anywhere near that voltage. The easiest to make is probably the Wimshurst machine which I show in this video, though I bought mine from ebay.com. I have a video on how to make one but it's a smaller one which isn't powerful enough for this smoke precipitator.
how much voltage???
See the video at 1:54. It says that at least 21,000 volts is needed.
Hi steve
Hi
I need urgent help
I need help
can do with 400kv
Does it work
I have a science project 2 days later
ok now tell me wtf a Smoke Precipitator is
:) Yeah, I guess I didn't really point out that this is a follow-up video to the one where I talk about it more and show how to make one ua-cam.com/video/x5YFK8mmeRQ/v-deo.html. It's something that captures the particulates from smoke. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrostatic_precipitator I was getting so many comments on that video asking what the required voltage is and what can power it that I got tired of guessing and decided to measure it, and of course make a video at the same time.
What is the purpose of making smoke between the two electrodes (probe and screen) ?
Is the smoke water vapor , or something else ?
Smoke enters the bottom. The screen ionizes smoke particles. The ionized smoke particles are attracted to the metal cylinder where they stick. This video is actually a follow-up video to the one where I show how it works and how to make it ua-cam.com/video/oD_8_NZJF48/v-deo.html.
Try making 'make you smart' videos. You have very good knowledge. By the way, when are you visiting India? I am your big fan and want to meet you.
And do you do full time video making or something else
thanks and nice work
Hey Hi, have you heard about the venus project? cause the technologies you describe are related to what the venus project advocates. they have a website at www.thevenusproject.com
Would this work in absorb hot smoke ?
I don't know what hot smoke is. If the smoke is soot particles then it should absorb them. Keep in mind that this also produces ozone, which in large quantities is hazardous to your health so if you're doing more than just an experiment then make sure to use in a well ventilated area.
Amazing! 1 question here. Why you say it produces ozone as it's only DC HV?
Cool.
thanks dear for this details ....i will do it and see results thanks again
Anyone there????
Will this work on 2Kv????
No.
Sir can I use DC 3.7V-7.4V to 400kV High Voltage Generator Transformer Boost Inverter Module 67x25mm to power this system......
Short answer, I can't say for sure.
Long answer... I found this www.amazon.ca/MonkeyJack-3-7V-7-4V-Generator-Transformer-Inverter/dp/B0769CQTJH which I guess is the one you're talking about. The 400kV is a lie since there's no way that produces 400kV, based on the spark lengths in the youtube videos I've seen of these, so I can't trust it's output ratings of 400kV and 0.5A. Looking at the input ratings, 3.7V-7.4V/4A and comparing that to what I measure at 8 minutes and 40 seconds into my power supply video here ua-cam.com/video/GEuK1OdYxHk/v-deo.html, it looks promising.
RimstarOrg sir now I know that 20kv can be generated by using 800kv boost converter ,,,so should I use it in smoke precipitater..??? And sir is there any way to deal with the ozone emitted.....???
Oh, sorry. I get asked so many questions about powering lifters that even though I know you're asking about smoke precipitators, my brain is still thinking about the requirements for lifters. Groan.
However, I don't know if those boost converters are producing AC, pulsed DC or flat DC. I know AC won't work. From my test with my Cube power supply in this video, I suspect pulsed DC doesn't work either. So that leaves flat DC. I don't know for sure, but I suspect those boost converters are not producing flat DC. The high frequency sparks in videos I've seen of them in the past look like either pulsed DC or AC. So my guess is that no, those boost converters won't work.
If they are producing flat DC, which I don't think they are, then they should work.
Oh, and regarding the ozone, the only solution I know is to do it in a well ventilated area and vent the ozone outdoors.
RimstarOrg sir I want to make your power supply system to get the input voltage from a battery,,, so should I go for it or will it result in any kind of trouble???
Amazing! And I love your editing!
Awesome
you can measure the hv output of the flyback transformer with a hv resister devider 100x 10 ohms resisters in series and run the hv out to one end and measure the voltage across the last resister with digital meter set to 600 volts
Isn't that pretty much what my high voltage probe is already doing, though with different values? When I did that I got the flat DC, with ripple, that I showed in this video 2:22. Since it wasn't what I expected for pulsed DC I just assumed that there's a capacitance somewhere in the measurement setup that's smoothing the pulses.
oops i made an error its 100times ten m resistors not ten ohms
Assume that the Cube ps is powered by a 48 volt homemade solar panel; would it work with the mesh and cylinder set 2 inches apart? If so, won't it damage the Cube?
If it sparks with a 2 inch spacing then it probably would damage the Cube. The amount of charge that would build up before sparking at that distance would result in a lot of current in the spark.
Would this work with larger Particles.... such as Burning of Wood???
I would think that it would work with smoke from burning wood. It's not too different from that from a candle or match.
How much charge should be induced to the wirmshurts machine ? And what are the other specs of the machine coz i wanted to buy one
I don't know how much charge or current, just the voltage which I measured in this video (21,000 volts). However, if you go to ebay.com and search for "wimshurst machine", all the ones that come up will do just as well as mine. If you're unsure then pick one and reply with the link and I'll confirm it. I bought mine from ebay. Here's an example www.ebay.com/itm/Wimshurst-Machine-Physics-Electrostatic-Generator-Model-Educational-Toy/233080929666?hash=item3644b4bd82:g:Du8AAOSw9g1cL00y:rk:2:pf:1&frcectupt=true
Sir can the precipitated material be removed by using a simple brush..????
No, I found it difficult to remove from the aluminum foil afterward. It forms as a film, but one that's stuck on fairly well. One thing that may help would be to cover the aluminum foil with something like paper towel material. That way the film would collect on the paper towel and you could just remove it from the foil and throw it away. Basically it would act like a filter.
Please tell me the radius of the container which u have used
It's very urgent for my science fair
The plastic jar has a radius of around 3.75cm or 1.5 inches. The foil cylinder has a radius of around 3cm or 1.25 inches. However, I'd suggest just getting whatever plastic jar you can find and use that and then have the aluminum foil cylinder be whatever dimension that allows you to fit it in the jar with some space between it and the inside of the jar. My dimensions were picked based on what I had available.
Sir if the output is pulsed DC then what if we use high rated capacitor to make it Flat DC
I don't see why that wouldn't work. Keep in mind that the voltage will be lower when you flatter the pulsed DC so you'd have to make sure to start with a higher voltage than you need.
wow, very revealing. Ozone! In what quantities are we talking?
I don't know the quantity of ozone but you can definitely smell it so it's more than normal. How much is harmful, I don't know. A different design that works with a lower voltage wouldn't produce ozone. There's some voltage below 10,000 volts where you don't produce ozone. I don't know what it is though.
it's a school project I am not having 21000v what to do
I don't know your skill level so it's hard to say...
You could make an electroscope and do experiments with it:
ua-cam.com/video/2PmWlPjV6n0/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/-JsVZwc1dOo/v-deo.html
You could do a Franklin's bell. There are all sorts of ways to power that:
ua-cam.com/video/cjlMrSlIIIQ/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/niRCKUliQWs/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/fEqudsyIWzk/v-deo.html
Corona motor:
ua-cam.com/video/ksp_O_1WmvA/v-deo.html
Note that all of the above can use this simple power source, triboelectricity:
ua-cam.com/video/ey88EdZo9hU/v-deo.html
Pyramid hologram and pepper's ghost:
ua-cam.com/video/UFhhIOaGW7U/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/shZUI6B5bZw/v-deo.html
And there are plenty more if you scroll through all my videos. But the above are a sample that anyone can do.
Can we use big battery for this? Like bike or any other
No, you need 21,000 volts, much, much higher than the voltage you get from any battery or combination of batteries.
if i put the wires directly to current plug
You have 9v but you need 21,000v. That's assuming I'm understanding what you're trying to do.
Sir plz reply fast sir
Sir so which machine i should use
any specifications using the wimshurts machine? need help using that
What specs are you looking for? The Wimshurst machine I used had 27cm (roughly 1 foot) diameter disks.
RimstarOrg can you tell me the distance between the mesh and cylinder and the measures of your container
I didn't measure the distance between the mesh and cylinder for the Wimshurst machine, since it worked, but judging from earlier in the video when I did make measurements it was probably just under 1 inch/2.5cm. But as you saw, I made it adjustable so you should probably do that too. I have an earlier video where I show all the making of the precipitator ua-cam.com/video/x5YFK8mmeRQ/v-deo.html.
RimstarOrg it finally worked
thanks!!!
what is that red colour stuff in 3:24
It's a variac, i don't know exactly how it works but i saw a diagramof it and it is like a coil with a cursor that slides through it
Sir i am a student of 9 standard so i want to start this precipitator. At how much volt i should use
It needs 21,000 volts, so you need a high voltage power source.
Sir can I use 400kv generator for this
Please reply fast
I have a science project 2 days later
29000V isn't it too much??
If you get sparks with 29,000V then simply increase the distance between the mesh and the foil cylinder. So it's not too much. However, keep in mind that you also need current. I don't know how much though. But it's probably not very much since, as you saw in this video, I got it working with a Wimshurst machine, which doesn't produce a lot of current.
RimstarOrg ah thnx for replying
Sir,How long does it take to make the model
If you have the parts then the smoke precipitator would take only around 1 hour. It's the power supply that's the tricky part to make/get. Buying a Wimshurst machine like the one I show in the video would be the easiest approach.
RimstarOrg thank you so much sir
I don't understand how it can work without electric sparks. Is it possible to ionisate the air without sparks ?
Yes, you can ionize air without having sparks. This is usually done by one or both of the electrodes having sharp points. The charges get crowded together at the sharp points and cause the electric field in the nearby air to be strong enough to breakdown the air and cause charge to flow easily into the air and ionize it. So there's never a build up of charge on the electrodes which would result in the sudden rush of charge across the gap which would be the spark.
A good analogy is a bottle of water. If you put a small hole in the bottle then water can leak out. If you keep putting more and more water into the bottle, the bottle may not burst because some is always leaking out. Of course that depends on how much leaks out.
But if there was no leak and you kept putting more and more water in, eventually the bottle would burst from the pressure of all the water and you'd get a sudden rush of water out of the bottle, like a spark.
Oh, and in the precipitator, the "sharp points" are the thin wires of the mesh. The thin wire isn't really a sharp point but it's thin enough to have the same effect.
Ok I understand the thing. However, isn't in the aluminum paper that the discharges occur ? Because in your other video about the precipitator, u're showing the coronna discharges that seem to come from the aluminum.
I'm not sure where the visible light starts from, but it makes sense that it would be the aluminum foil since that's the smooth electrode. That's the electrode which will have built up the most charge without leaking first.
Yeah it seems legit. Thanks very much sir for your explanations, it helped me a lot.
Greetings from France.
how much current potential we should give to get good response of this project
I didn't measure the current. Measuring current with high voltage is hard to do. However, given that the Wimshurst machine worked (the machine with the rotating disks), the current isn't huge.
@@RimstarOrg CAN YOU SAY APPOROX
Very roughly 250 microamps to 1 milliamp.
@@RimstarOrg ok thank you so much sir
i tried its working