WHY GOING ON TOUR IS A WASTE (for bands and musicians)
Вставка
- Опубліковано 24 кві 2019
- Subscribe for eternal love bit.ly/johnismusic Your first few times going on tour as a band or artist is an exciting milestone to hit, don't get me wrong! BUT. Y'all probably aint ready. With my touring experience, I can say a LOT of it has been a massive waste of time, energy, and money, and that is exactly what I want to talk about today.
And while all that is the negative. I do want to offer my thoughts on what could be a more effective alternative to going on tour.
Being a full time musician touring can still be incredibly exciting and worth it outside of the business end. Going on tour is incredibly rewarding but the touring musician lifestyle is not for everyone.
#touringbandtips #johnmclucas #goingontour
• FOLLOW ME HERE •
/ john_mclucas
jhnmclucas
• For Details on my Music Production, Mixing, and other Creative Endeavors •
johnmclucas.com/
• My Podcast •
stayspongyshow.com/podcast
What's going on everybody! Welcome to the description area, glad to have you all the way down here. If you're reading this, you're at least fairly into what's going on here, so go ahead and click SUBSCRIBE to get on it! If you SUPER love me you would even hit the bell and make sure it's set to "all" so we never miss seeing each other!
Now let's make some music everyone will remember.
So what are YOUR thoughts on touring? Has it been worth it? or not?
I think what gets lost on so many people is the concept of supply and demand. You have to create demand for your band to play live by building the most awesome online presence you can, then play shows where you know you already have fans and find bands to exchange with like you said. Too many bands throw an abundant supply of shows at a market that has no demand for them, then scratch their head confused why the tour didn't work.
@@MilitantMe very well put! Dudnt even think to phrase it like that but you are 100% right
@@john_mclucas also, the optimistic financials of the tour didn't factor lodging, though I know the gritty guys will just say you can sleep in the van Haha. Solid video though man. Look forward to seeing many more
@@MilitantMe I went optimistic on the assumption that means sleeping in van :P yup got a good one next week for ya too!!!
Many moons ago I did a ton of acoustic touring that were basically promotional shows for a solo record I released. Only money made was through merch and I did gain new followers and contacts, in was a loss monetarily. With my last project, the touring we did were more out of town gigs that had either some sort of solid guarantee monetarily or for a big event etc - we would always have at least an "anchor" gig to secure/know we would be coming back with profit and not just breaking even. I love playing out of town and would love to do more touring with future projects but it is definitely a matter of weighing the pros and cons in all aspects.
perfectly explained.
thx babe!!
Your channel shalllll blow up soon! You deserve it man 🤟🏻🖤
Caleb! I massively appreciate that, and I sure hope so
Really appreciate how well thought out your arguments are. My drummer is obsessed with the early 2000's vision of getting in a van and touring and signing a record deal, etc. These things just aren't happening anymore. Unless you're opening on tour for established acts, or playing 4 hour sets of covers at bars with a dance floors, it's ridiculous to think you can just jump in without basically going bankrupt.
It's really all about diversifying your income streams.
Thanks for the video!
Show your drummer this!!!!! hahaha. And that vision is still possible dont get me wrong, I think the market and possibilities ahve changed as well and it's a disservice to only think in one format.
Stoked to have you here in the comments, see you in the next one
This is very useful information as a member of a few bands that are soon looking to tour. I will have them all take a look at this video and hopefully your other videos too as you have a great channel that deserves more viewers. Lots of people can and will benefit from your videos. Thank you for making them.
I'm honored you found it THAT valuable, and I think you'll love my other stuff too! Definitely glad you're sharing this with your mates as well. Let me know once everyone watches and the bands thoughts! Much love
I love this. I use to be on the same types of tours big & small. Years later, Im looking into touring again but smarter. Thank you for the solid reminders my guy! subbed
You have really good ideas. Thanks for this. I really liked your suggestion on keeping fans via the social media followups.
Glad it helped yo, that’s why I made it 😌
This is awesome and I love your points. it confirms something ive suspected for a while. Thx John
☺️🙌 glad it helped Hudson! Stay on the internet, and enjoy your bed for longer if ya can 😝 o
@@john_mclucas what do you think is the best viable option to gain audience and make a living for an Indie artist today?
Awesome video dude! a lot of valuable advice. I’m definitely sharing this with my band
Yo! Good to see you in the comments man curiouscto hear what your band thinks, have them comment after they check it!
great info, so helpful
Cheers yo
Great video John! Solid points
thank you!! Glad to have ya here in the comments :)
lol that ending. Thanks for taking the time to break this down, seems obvious, but alot of us needed to hear that.
I thin ka lot of the times an external person saying it helps a lot! Stoked you loved it, and I'll see you in the next one :)
You nail it, sir! Touring is a job and it can be fun. But it can also be grinding and musicians forget or choose to ignore that business is business. Really, most tours break even at best. There are so many ways to lose money. Your suggestions about building a brand are solid.
Thanks Brian! Yea I LOVE the experience but there’s always a point where we have to also balance out our focus. I do miss touring at times though😅
This video is awesome. I never understood the economics of touring. Just knew a couple of horror stories. I love your plan for engaging your audience. Your video looks great too. Dang. You are killing it!
Hey! Thank you so much! So much kindness in one comment 😁😁
Yea theres a lot of horror stories out there, but I'm glad this could show you some stuff! I think it's a difficult thing to do right, so hopefully some artists are cautioning themselves more now
Hey John, great video. I completely agree with you. There are much better way to build an authentic fan base. I would love you hear more of your thoughts on DIY marketing for bands and how social media can be used strategically for interactions and retention.
Hey! Thanks a million for coming to hang out with me. I'm not sure I'm the best authority on that for bands specifically, I know how to do it for me but in a band environment it's not exactly my expertise. I could speak to building personal brand organically! Which by proxy builds your music up :) thoughts?
Love it. Thanks dude.
Thansk for checking it out!
Informative, high quality content. Subbed and cheers for the advice!
Thank you sam glad you enjoyed it! Cheers!"
Very informative video! Sending it to all my band members.
Stoked homie!!!glad you found value in it see you in the next vid!
Love it. Great presentation, man aaaaaaaand subbed \m/
AAaAAAANd THANK YOU JAMES
Hell yeah! Now I can just send people this video instead of sending a short easy response haha. Great job as usual man, appreciate the effort put into your content!
😂 honestly that's like half the reason I made this too it comes up a lot, now i can just point them to the video instead of seeming offputting by being blunt 😂
This is great. I had always wondered about touring.
Hey Cameron glad I could help! I think experience varies but for most people this is the unfortunate truth. Have you toured before?
John McLucas I’ve only ever played locally. I think it would be super fun to tour, but it seems like a huge commitment that probably wouldn’t be worth it.
@@cameronneal4 it's definitely fun, and the fun can be worth it if it's done smart :)
Some fantastic advice. I would love to hear touring stories. Even for a did band it would be very beneficial to try to build some sort of brand before heading out on tour. Not a typical example, but a good one nonetheless. I saw rest/repose last summer in st. Louis. They obviously had a following due to jared dines and Ryan bruce having a youtube following already and the show was packed. I became a fan of a regional band that opened (who I bought tickets from) and have kept in direct contact with the singer, so retention was had.
Exactly, but my counter would be that touring will definitely be worth it playing to packed rooms every night Haha that's the whole point! Congrats to them for being on a sick ass tour too :)
Thank you for the advice. I'm a software engineer by day but am going on tour for the first time at the end of the year. Whole new world for me
I’m glad it offered good insight! To add to it, it may be a good fit regardless of the financial or social benefit, purely to experience it. 🤷♂️ so just enjoy the journey and let me know if you have Q’s, dm me on IG!
Always killer content. Good stuff!
Fantastic advice and things to learn here even if people choose to go on the road. Like you said - the hours in the van could definitely be spent socializing and interacting. By doing so ahead of time, you could even talk to people in the regions you'd be going to in order to get more people to show up, and when they do, if you give them attention and actually converse etc instead of just saying a quick hello, that can be really powerful.
That being said, you're probably better off not going at all, haha.
I do agree, I think all of that leg would you describe is incredibly effective but after spending time with hundreds of musicians whether they are local or touring, I see a tiny tiny percentage of them having the drive and hunger to actually execute on the amount of work it takes to make a to are truly effective in worth it. You are a great example of somebody that doesn't to are but is continuing to build a fan base completely online! And that's exactly why I had to mention you in the video lol
Yeah - it's definitely easier said than done, especially when it can be a kind of demotivating environment in the tour van, haha. And whether you do it or not - it can most definitely be done way more efficiently from home. Thanks for the mention, always an honor! :-)
@@maxadrums I cant help it that you're being smarter and more efficient than many others we know :P
But yea I think if people have the discipline it's a no brainer
Just found your channel. Great job man🤩🤩🤩
Phil so glad to have you homie! Enjoy your time here ☺️
Funny enough. I watch a lot of your videos because we've had small talk on the jst forum I believe. So a lot of your points on maintaining fans makes a lot of sense
Yea dude I remember you from FB! haha glad it's working;) I always try to practice what I preach
Spot on man. People always get their feelings hurt when try to tell them this though.
Send them here so you dont have to be the one!
Just got off a short DIY tour as a hired gun, and this pretty much echoes my thoughts on touring in general. After doing multiple DIY tours with my own bands, I'm wayyy no longer in a hurry to set up my own again without the proper resources and connections.
Yup Haha there are a lot of better things you can do with your time than a DIY run at the stage it sounds like you're at. I'm glad this video brought value, glad to have you in the family :)
Well said!! Personally, I prefer doing the little 2 day micro-tours once a month. Go and play a couple different towns on a Friday and Saturday here and there...all the while fostering the community relationships via online interaction that you spoke of. It gives you some live playing exposure, but you don't have to live out of a van/car for weeks at a time. Having financial resources to do this also helps.
Yeah that’s a great middle ground as well! So many amazing ways to get creative and not go down crazy rabbit holes, it’s all about finding that balance so you weren’t in debt just to play to 10 people in the city for the sake of saying you did it 😂
Big bands of the 60s, 70s and 80s made their revenue from record sales, and for a time being (in the 80s and 90s especially) from VHS and DVD sales. I recall a time when radio airplay fueled enough interest for music sales to support a band without touring being necessary. That drastically changed with napster and illegal downloading at the turn of the century causing many heritage bands to come-out of semi-retirement and hit the road again. Music Streaming provides little return for any artist, as there is a new generation of casual fans who prefer to rent their music rather than own it. The music business (what's left of it) in the 21st century as become centered around touring specifically, with every aspect of the band's appearances, promotion and performances individually monetized to recover costs. Ticket reselling and mysterious pre-sales with hidden costs have turned many long-term, hardcore fans away from their favourite groups for good. I remember the first rock concert I saw cost $7.50 for a general admission ticket, and the album just released by that band cost $4.99 Cdn. It was affordable for the time, and allowed young people to invest in many big bands. The price to see your favourite big acts in 2023 are prohibitive, much more akin to taking your young family to Disney for that once-in-a-lifetime visit.
you should do a vid aboud some crazy tour stories, for sure
ps: auto play brought me back here and im watching the video again 😆
😂😂😂😂😂 amazing Haha you're the man! And good, that dropscthursday ;)))
One of the main reasons I left my band. I'd rather put more money into recordings, and videos. Great video man!
Yup the ROI is not even close lol good to see you kn the comments homie
Great video John, I have played in bands for about 20 years and have done a bunch of DIY tours, it's really great fun but no so good on the financial side of things. I think only twice did I ever come back with some kind of profit and that was just due to get really good merch sales. I think twice nowadays about going on the road, I either save up and do it to have a fun experience or make sure that I at the very least break even.
Yea if you can make that concession mentally and accept it's a loss or more for fun, that makes sense. Glad you did it though and learned and grew from it! Nice to meet another Lazenby:)
@@john_mclucas Yeah, I guess it's about your motivation behind doing it. You really give some great ideas to bands on building their fanbase. Just talk to people and connect with them. Us Lazenby's are rather few and far between. :)
@@grantlazenby8192 haha yup that connection is so important! and I do like them Lazenbys :P
Hey John, I what to hear about your story, and how you ended up opening for some extremely large bands. Where did you start, and what happened in between that changed your trajectory? Thanks so much!
Yo Sean! That's a long story but I'll summarize it as best I can....
- I attended a music school for audio but they had a full musicians branch. They also had a process to go through to be put on a list for calls for touring gigs/hired guns/band members needed from better acts than you find elsewhere, and I did that.
- Got to join a prog band With Our Arms To The Sun for a couple years as a member and they had some cool stuff going on already, were touring a bit, and had some good connections that ended up panning out well for the TOOL gig. We didn't do anything remarkable besides favors and stuff like " i did this for you before, so do this for me" kind of thing.
I wish I had a more epic story than that, but that's the honest truth. It's not anything crazy beyond I knew that process to be on a lit for touring could pay off, and it did. hope this helps!
Who else is here because Jared Dines shared his video on IG?
Regardless. Solid solid advice. You earned my sub dude! I’m gonna go check out your other videos!
Haha right??? Pretty raf to have that share 😎😎
Welcome to the family! I appreciate the sub homie. Enjoy the content, I'll see you soon then :) much love
Hey John great advice. As someone who's toured before, this is all just the tip of the iceberg.
P.s. Do you have a podcast? Or simply.youtube?
I do, look up Stay Spongy Podcast. Atm I’m focusing on YT as far as content until I get my assistant down incLA full time so I can start it up and do it BIG!
some great info here :)
you're such a homie man! Appreciate you
He is got a point!!
🤷♂️🤷♂️🤷♂️ that’s what I aim for
Just a though; what if band members have either remote work or "side hustles" that can be worked on during a tour? For instance, one of my bandmates is a photographer and designer, so she could spend time working on designs and photo editing while in the van. Or alternatively, if an audio engineer gets good at mixing on headphones, that's something that could potentially be done on the road (with stuff like Sonarworks and how portable quality interfaces are now).
Would you think that makes touring a more viable option? I also think that the practice and networking aspect of it is valuable too, as you're also making friends with other bands on the road and improving as artists.
It definitely helps. I think a lot of people underestimate how draining it is on the road though, especially how loud a van is for mixing unless yojre in a high end bus haha. BUT if people are keeping cash flow up, it definitely adds a big plus one to touring!
In my experience, the road is SO exhausting that working even 4 to 6 hours in a van is nearly impossible. Especially how much people tour being DIY. You develop wrist problems on the laptop that long haha legitimately had pain from mixing on the road so long I had to limit it to hotel time only
Excellent advice! I've talked to so many bands and musicians in many towns and it's all about bragging that you went on "Tour". Most of the bands even go out of town for maybe a Friday and a Saturday and they still call it a "Tour".
Also, I'm really enjoying your content.
Hey Wyatt! Super stoked that you're enjoying the. Videos, glad to have ya :)))
And yup it's amazing how much people want to flex and feel cool instead of be practical
@@john_mclucas I have been playing solo for the last few years and that helps make way more income for traveling but now everything is up to me.
@@wyattwoodmusic is there any way you can bring maybe a buddy or significant other or family members or have someone helping remotely?
Having someone with you would be great for content!
@@john_mclucas I occasionally take my family. Most of my friends are too busy to be able to leave for a few days or weeks at a time. Being alone traveling isn't too bad. You get to listen to a lot of music and sing the whole time. The open road is a lot of fun.
What kind of camera are you using for these vlogs? Vid quality is incredible (not to mention the content, which is gold).
Canon Rebel T6i and canon 50 mm lens :) simple setup!!!!
And thank you, glad to have you in the family 🙏
@@john_mclucas Thank you, and likewise!
FUCKING GREAT VIDEO! THANK YOU FOR MAKING THIS!
AYE AYE CAPTN tHANKS FOR SAYING WHATSUP!!!
This is pretty on point, now just imagine what it's like for a Canadian band trying to tour where the distances are farther or you need visas to get into the states!!!
LOL thank goodness you have the internet! no reason to not be able to make those dank connects now :P
@@john_mclucas We actually just got the internet here in Canada a few weeks ago! Very exciting, have you heard of this website called "Google"? Seems like it's gunna be a big deal!
Going on tour is about playing liveshow which is the coolest thing ever, fans will come if they like your music ... :) nice video though !
Hey if it’s something you want to do and it’s fulfilling for you, then go crush it! Personally, I’m a lot pickier with going on runs, but that’s the beauty. We all get to pick our path ☺️🙌
The key in the beginning, is landing a sweet support tour ;)... easier said than done.
As someone who tours for a living, I agree- in the beginning, the financials are not there. And it's a very 90's mentality to "play to 10 people, but 20 people the next time, and then 100! etc"
BUT I will say, there's a huge difference in touring the US vs. Europe. I grew up touring the US. You don't get paid, fed, or given places to sleep. In Europe, most venues have band flats for you to sleep at, and you get fed pretty well.
After all the awful tours I've done, I can still say they were all worth it for the memories... as disgustingly sappy that sounds hah.
Mike, real talk, I still feel the same. Despite my video, the tours were iconic, even in the worst moments ❤️❤️❤️
I’ve never toured Europe, but I’ve heard it’s WAY better with that stuff. Glad to hear it corroborated
People never wanna work for shit or sacrifice shit. Some of my fav bands- Architects, parkway drive, August Burns Red, play show after show traveling as a family/band out of pure passion and it payed off.
Both can work, but this video is really geared for people doing DIY runs to very empty rooms. There are a lot of paths possible with this stuff :)
Any tips for someone looking to record their own music? What gear you need, what to expect, etc.
Hey Bryan! that is a MASSIVE topic, with a LOT of answers, haha, I'd say checking the Recording Revolution would be a good start at the moment! He has a ton of great DIY info :)
@@john_mclucas Okay thank you! Feeling pretty overwhelmed!
@@bryanlettow4389 It's a lot but it
s totally doable mayn!!
Lot's of cool points discussed in this. I've seen far too many bands hop into touring too quickly and not taking into consideration of what they really are up against. It has also resulted in a lot of said bands breaking up because they couldn't handle it
Yup whether it's not handling it or just going into debt and needing two work two jobs it's so sad to see.
@@john_mclucas I've actually know of a band that has been taking out loans to buy onto bigger tours which is incredibly risky. They actually kicked out a member for having too poor of a credit score that couldn't do it 😂
@@connor3086 lolol I mean yea thats a whole other world to talk about that is insaaaaaane
There was a time where labels would first look at your touring history, before even listening to your music. I don't know if that's a thing still. But I think that if you want representation on a label, having some touring experience helps?
it definitely helps to have any kind of experience on your resume, but it's becoming LESS important especially with people who are blowing up exclusively online
I too, am already taken. So it won’t work out. In fact, I’m pretty sure I’m not into dudes. I mean I check monthly with the old brush and flush... but yeah. Great video though. So full of math and logic. 😍❤️🥰
hahaha never really romanced a dude with math and logic before, this is a new form of seduction :P!!!
The entire point of going on a tour in a bands early days is learning. More often than not, you aren't ready, and that's the work. There was a time when touring was the only option you had though. It was the only way to get your name out there if you weren't extremely lucky, but it isn't the 70's anymore. The internet has opened the doors, but now the industry is suffering from a glut of quality content. IMO.
Learning is great, and I would not be opposed if the learning was like. One week. Once. I think that's worth it. But losing your ass to learn is dumb haha that's what college is for😂
@@john_mclucas Except in college you put yourself in massive debt to go nowhere. I think I'd rather go on tour.
Great content! Before long you will be giving Finn McKenty a run for his money! ;-)
OH ITS GAME ON 😎🔥😎
The memories is your payment
"because it's way less sexy" had me DYING hahhah
😭😂😂😂 thank youuuu
In my area, a local venue probably would have as much turn out as on tour, if not less.
It can definitely vary. All of it is case by case imo, only the people in the position know the necessary info for it
Having done the whole touring thing... I can fully agree that it is a waste when you have Instagram and UA-cam as a means to build a fan base.
Lol yup that's why I havent hit the road in two years 😂😂😂
I figured out that touring probably is the right reason for me, I’m only a solo act. Renting my own places to play shows for $40-$150, with my own equipment that I have. And selling my own tickets to people and my own merch keeping 100% of the profits. Playing 2 shows a day at 1 place each day, every day for a month. And I’m a cover artist so I have a better time selling tickets with only about 2,000,000 plays on Spotify this year. I think it’s going to work in my case for my situation.
That’s great you’re looking at it insentely like that! It very well may make sense for yours. Cheers to that :)
What’s your average gross income per show? Guarantee/tips/Merch
John McLucas. I haven’t gone on the road yet, I plan to next spring, the first tour I will probably make back what I spend on a sound system and instruments, but I would probably make about $200-$350 per day (2 shows) depending on the place and time. But that adds up quick if you do 100 shows or so each year. I would charge $7.50 presale for tickets online, and $10.00 at the door, so paying $70 a show (2 shows a day) on average, I would have to sell 10 tickets to make my money back, anymore tickets, all the merch, and all the tips would be profit. On each tour saying I play 50 shows at 30 places I expect to make $2500-$3000 a tour deduct $1200-$1500 for expenses. So $1000-$1500 profit at the moment, and I’ll make fans as well. Not bad if you ask me. Who knows though, I have a very conservative view ( I expect 10-15 people to be at each show ) I may shock myself and get 50, you never know
I plan to rent out Shelterhouses at parks (some allow you to hold concerts, I know that from asking) and those are very very cheap and they rent out for the whole day, not per hour so I would hold an afternoon show (1:00-2:30 PM) and a evening show (7:30-9:00 PM) and I would do it all myself with no stage crew as I make my own music, I record, mix, and master everything in my own home studio that I built myself
I would have a family member or two to do small things to help out with the shows to make sure they go as planned (aka take tickets, watch the merch stand, help me switch guitars and get water when needed)
I always dreamed of going on the road! Screw it now
I mean, totally do it for the dream and the experience! I just don’t think it makes sense in a lot of situations
I always thought the way bands got sign back in the day were the following:
1. Move to LA and play at the local club scene (Starwood, Wisky, Rainbow Room,etc.)
2. Develop a following (buzz)
3. Get a manager
4. Manager’s contacts gets a label exec to come to your shows.
5. Get sign by label
6. Go on tour
I'm not queued in enough to speak on it in depth tbh, I'm sure it's possible but what I'm hearing now more and more is how the "buzz" people want is on tiktok, not locally
While I agree with many of the points made in the video, we did it the old fashioned way...With my band we toured for a year barely breaking even, got tight, recorded an album for just under $2000 on our own label. The album & single received pretty good reviews, radio play on specialist shows, & a couple of influential shout outs..Year two, $4000 + a show after agency fee, plus maybe $500 merch profit a night... , , manage ourselves & don't have crew, but we do employ a driver who also sells merchandise. We pay him equal cut of any fee (so five way split), which is what he got when we weren't making any cash at all. . He's funny as f, a good salesman & he's pretty good at physical intimidation on the very rare occasion thats required; so well worth the money. .. Sometimes we take flights, & we don't share hotel rooms as a strict rule as we're grown ass men, not teens.. . Still not exactly the rock star life, but it's fun way of making an ok living. & playing to an audience is why we do it.
Would love to chat more about this in depth and learn more in depth! Happy to make a follow up video case study on your circumstances if you're open to being super open with your $$$ and circumstances
I feel band's main source of income should come from their merch
I think it should be wahtever they can get hahaha :P :P :P :P :P :P
@@john_mclucas selling drugs and breeding pit bulls
I know folks think that after they play their set they get to go mingle like rockstars in the crowd. But the reality is you need to get your gear and get out of there before someone steals it or sets it on fire. :)
Hahahaha depends on the green room and storage for sure 😂😂😂
@@john_mclucas Totally, :)
Yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes
LOL DUDE YT CALLED THIS POSSIBLE SPAM
Video research can be done by typing, The Realities Of A Touring Band, in the search box of UA-cam.
Yeah, I have to agree; I went on tour with my band. We weren't really known. Wasted a lot of money on food, didn't have money to party with; and the guys and I where frustrated most of the time. We ended up going home because we needed food and shelter. Next time, I'll try to work on getting a little more popular at home and have more money...
sometimes that hard lesson is a good one that really sticks with us! I gotta say I laughed about you saying you didnt have partying money, cant tell if troll or srs :P but yea there are WAY better things you can do with your time for the next few years, I promise
7:31 is fact. That opened the door to us hiring you.
😎😎😎 exactly
I’m late but I want a video about crazy our stories
Bruhhhhhh I think I have one up ... “my worst gig ever - promoter of doom” 👀👀 I have others that tbh are better but that’s a good start 😂 idk if I’ll be doing tour stories much often 🤷♂️ gonna focus on the new style you’ll find in the newest vid i did!!
Tour* lol
John McLucas low key want groupie stories
😂😂 if we encounter each other IRL I’ll give you those stories 🤦♂️🤦♂️ idk if they should exist in video form online 😂
Great video!
PS:I hope my comment helps the algorithm ;)
Me too! I'm so honored to have such love here on the channel :)
Jared Dines sent me here. Good video. However tour is fun.
Thanks! Glad to have ya!
Well, that's made me think twice... I always knew it was a challenge making it financially viable, but I'd never considered your point about how pointless facebook likes are... Why did no one tell me?? Why did anyone have to tell me? Gawdddd
😂 it's okay this is something many people need to hear
@@john_mclucas The worst part is I wrote a damn paper at music school where I had to fully cost a national tour with 7 dates, and somehow it still didn't occur to me it'd be a waste of time! haha
@@JoeBoult 😂😂😂 if anything I'm sure you learned!!
Who's Toolcoheedandprimus?
SUPERGROUP ALERT
Is the $150 per man per gig? That's not very good.
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
So, in a nutshell.. If you're good, then you will expand, naturally. The logic isn't any simpler than that.
is this a sexual innuendo pun?
@@john_mclucas - Pun not intended, but I do often wonder sometimes how many musicians are actually closet homosexuals. Bands like Iron Maiden or Judas Priest for example. I can't count the times I've seen photographs of them in the past where they're half nude or just coming out of the shower, so it kinda makes you wonder if there may have been some type of hanky panky going on at some point in all that touring. What do you think? Curious..
why do you factor in food to eat as a cost, consider you have to eat every day no matter what you do or who you are.
food cost is substantially higher when travelling a lot, assuming you want to eat moderately decent, and arent touring on a bus. You can't get anything in bulk, and can't store things in a fridge. Of course, you can eat very poor quality food and asave money but that's not how I want to treat my body lol
I think touring is alluring because we always hear about European bands doing it but what we don't realize is that Europe is sort of closely knit and America is not. For example, I'm in San Diego and for me to go to Arizona to play just one show would be a losing proposition that I could never recoup from. In your calculations, you not cover lodging.. lol. Arizona is about 9 hours away and gas is by no means cheap. So that's $100 for gas one way. $100 for room one night (super conservative). Today even $100 rooms are essentially crackhead motels but we won't go there.. lol.. $50 for food. $100 gas on the way back. So I'm already at about $350-$400. If I play some dive bar or even a venue, you'll usually end up with about $150. Additionally, a dive bar (which most places really are, even if they masquerade as venues) will typically nickel and dime you with rules like: they only start counting people after the first 15 or they keep half of the door money or for you to get paid the door money plus drink sales has to be greater than $200. By the time you settle (that means getting paid around 2 am after all bands played), it is hardly worth it. If it is a ticketed venue, it is even worse, they usually require you to sell like 50 tickets at $20 a piece and give them their money in advance, which is usually a losing proposition unless your band is huge. This is why you need a label, so they can provide tour support which you'll eventually have to pay back somehow. It's a tough business. I think it was easier for those 80s bands because gas and eveything else was much cheaper back then. Today, you'll never recoup the overhead. And most of the connections you make at shows usually have a low engagement rate. That is, at the show, they'll promise to follow you or like you and be totally into you (after a few drinks.. lol) but most never follow through. The next day after they sober up, they usually forget all about you. What is most likely to happen is your band breaks up after the tour because either you find out you can't stand each other or band members loose faith in the band and to top it off, not only did you not make any money but you actually lost money. That is, that reality hits them finally that they are probably not going to be rock stars and they bail and the band breaks up. This has typically happened to all my bands just playing local shows.. lol.
A couple points to that, but I love your insight on this man!
- I don’t include hotel because I was trying to give the cheapest case scenario of them sleeping in the car to save dollars. I typically stay in hotels when touring haha but if I’m trying to give them the best chance to make money that’s it
-dude no labels going to pay you tour support for lumpedctogether DIY crap tours haha. It’s also a very bad approach to think the label will solve any problems you have and make life easy, I had that philosophy when briefly signed and it bit usHARD in the ass, we should’ve been working harder instead of thinking they’ll patch up our bullshit ideaS
If I ever was there again I’d tell them “we canceling the tour and using $100 daily tour support to run ads and stay in my fucking bed” lolol
@@john_mclucas Also, if you sell merch, the bar or venue usually takes a cut. You get nickle and dimed to death in this business by just about everybody around you. Everybody wants a cut and what's leftover is hardly enough.
Yupppppp but imo instead of us wallowing in it we just choose to not partake in it. Touring is a waste? Yup okay let’s spend 10 hours buying and digesting specific courses for effective add for musicians and bands that convert and how to capture long term attention
To begin with, you are playing the wrong venues. The notion of playing low paying gigs helps nobody and may undermine the performing arts. That stated, please note that my thinking is to deliver a pro concert at venues which support the arts. My experience is listening rooms, bars and music halls are often a disservice to the arts. My experience is that touring can be beneficial both financially as well as touching the emotions of audiences. Pro tip… get good, get on the phone, control costs and understand that artists serve something higher than self and pay to play gigs
Technology is making us all lazy and we don’t even know it. Smh
Or technology means we dont have to waste our life doing dumb shit for low to no ROI. :P
Hello sir . Jared Dines sent me to you.
Well welcome to the family!
I’ve never been on a tour before but it does seem like it’s a waste of time and money unless you already have a decent sized fan base
it definitely requires a lot of planning and careful execution!!! cheers
Nick Schmidt it’s about music and the passion. If it’s a waste of time then you shouldn’t be in a band
Are you trying to be Finn mckenty
Yes. And it's working
@@john_mclucas for now
@@MatthewOneMan teehee ❤
Frank Ocean stopped touring. The Beatles stopped touring. Two examples right there.
Truuuu
Sure. It'll suck. Matter of fact, it does suck. You can give up, return home, pay your mortgage, your rent, your car note... Or you can sacrifice.
Weiners like this give up because they haven't done the work internally to handle the harsh reality that does come with chasing dreams.
Fuck what anyone says. If you believe in you, chase your dreams. In the people's faces will always be the meat and potatoes. Period.
Well. I have to jump in here and be the contradicting voice. While you made some good points, I feel like the video should have more been based on “...waste of time until you have built and online presence.” People are either gonna like you or they aren’t. Now yes, touring and labels were necessary back in the day BUT, people still want to see live music today. We are lucky to have the tools we have today that we can make an album and build a fan base from home. Those fans will start hitting you up and ask if you are going to play their town. The point about it’s not good for making money is...well I think it’s garbage. It’s about the passion for playing the songs, your songs. Meeting new fans and vibing with the crowd. Eatn Ramen and sleeping in a van aren’t fun but when you are playing even a small venue and you look out and see folks singing YOUR songs with you, in a town you’ve never even been to, that is magical. The grind is still relevant.
I think this is a great opposite opinion on it! There’s a time and place for it, but at least in my community I’ve found that they’re doing it too early and it’s causing more harm than good, hence the premise.
In a meta sense, all internet advice needs to be filtered into your exact circumstance, and plied accordingly. 😎
Touring is a waste if you’re a band that has no songs that are somewhat popular. Like no one wants to go see you they don’t know who you are. Get those good songs out on the Internet and build a demand for your band.
So, are you saying that it's NOT easy for me to become a millionaire and sleep with a different woman every night of my choosing, solely from drumming
LOLL the username with this comment is too perfect
It sounds like you're better off just making music and screw touring. Darkthrone style
Yeaaa
You didn’t even factor in paying your Musicians!
Lol yup this is a conservative as fuck estimate. Assuming it’s a full band. But it’s way more with hire guns!