The Nag Trope - It’s Time to Write It Out
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- Опубліковано 13 сер 2021
- The henpecked husband traverses centuries and genres, but why, after decades of feminism, is the nagging wife a character we still accept? The “nag” in film and TV is often cast as materialistic, pushy, and unfaithful. Furthermore, she is often depicted as unappealing and willing to raise her voice. Even if what she asks of her partner is actually pretty reasonable, her tone or the incessantness of her demands is played as insufferably annoying. Thus she can serve as a kind of emotional “scapegoat” allowing viewers to excuse her male partner’s blatantly irresponsible behavior.
Increasingly, stories from the nag’s perspective explore how she’s often an overstretched wife and mom juggling a lot and carrying an intense mental load, while feeling let down by a partner who’s not committing the same effort or showing her due respect. So where does “the nag” come from and what can we learn by hearing her side?
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I saw a therapist saying men are always blindsided by their clearly unhappy wives leaving them because media has thought them that it's normal.
True
Not just the with marriages. In the two relationships I've had, the guys felt blindsided when I "suddenly" broke up with them. Yet I had been talking for month about how I wanted things to change
Maybe because the husband is also unhappy to a degree as well? I mean, marriage is not easy and learning how to make it work can really make a person have nagging thoughts. See what I did there?
@@davidbush9274 did you see the video? I mean we are talking about guys that even if unhappy don't work with their partner, don't listen to their need and sure as here are not putting any work into the relationship.
@@afgusti4269 What I am saying is that everyone gets tired in relationships. It is just that there are different ways in which that fatigue can be expressed. Yes, communication is critical. The question is what comes first in a relationship: Responsibilities or feelings? If both people in the relationship put feelings first, then how long would the relationship last? I am sure that you believed that you were clearly communicating to your partners before you called it quits, it is just that the men in question probably missed it. It must have been really frustrating to you to want to change and not see the change happen. And you are not even talking about marriages, but relationships.
Let’s be honest, women nag because they’re often relegated to the “mothering” role. Meanwhile, men get an extended adolescence.
Boys will be boys 🥴🙄🙄🙄
@@meghansullivan6812 There is no problem with boys being boys. The problem is when outgrow the boyish body but still haven't matured into a man.
I am less concerned with women being portrayed as nags and more concerned that all these boys have to look up to for role models are Seth Rogen, Will Ferrell, Adam Sandler manchilds who are portrayed as hero's. What every happened to Father Knows Best and shows where men were loving fathers, honest hard working employees and respected members of the community?
Why is it that as feminists work to improve the male population all they have accomplished is removing the positive attributes while the negative ones have become more pronounced?
Maybe if they stopped worying about how women are portrayed and started paying some attention to the men they may find the make real progress.
The real problem isn't just men or women but relationships. Til the blinders are removed and the focus is extended to see the entire picture equality will not be achieved.
Not entirely, I know some moms who still have a bit of fun. They usually hire a babysitter, or they know their limits. However, I do see what you mean. TV, too often, bends reality for a cheap laugh or whatever the case may be.
@@conniethesconnie
1. Since when do boys ONLY have dudebros to look up to in popular culture? Setting aside the facts that real-life men are always viable options and it's not the media's job to raise children, there's ALWAYS been mature, responsible men to watch on-screen.
2. Did it ever occur to you that men might want something different than being loving fathers (not every man wants children), honest hardworking employees (no one appreciates men's work, and corporate culture sucks), and respected members of the community (men have to be Superman or some celebrity to have respect these days, especially as men, who were born with original sin in this world)? Did it ever occur to you that domestic life isn't rewarding for men anymore?
@@christopherbrown5409 1) I haven't done any in depth research on the use of male characters on TV. When did the last disappear? Maybe when they took King of The Hill off the air? Or when they beheaded Ned Stark? IS This Old house still going? Regardless; there are few from my lifetime.
It may not be the medias job to portray any particular group but we have had criticism of the lack of women, people of African, Asian, Hispanic, or Native descent. Portrayal of the LGBTQ communities and disabled. There are outcries for more body diversity. Why is wrong to point out the lack of real men in media?
2) Wanting something other than loving fathers? Like What? Abusive fathers? Absentee fathers? Manipulative? Irresponsible? What type of fathers do they want to be?
Not every man wants children. Good. Priests, sailors, lumberjacks, ... there are plenty of lifestyles that are accepting of single males. Don't want children. If that's your personal choice, more power to you. However, it should not be an excuse not to grow up.
Don't want to be an honest hardworking member of society - that is the problem.
Corporate culture sucks. Try being your own boss or living off grid. Both of these are hard work. Want to be a gangster or criminal? You still need to out hustle the opposition. This leaves parasitic lifestyles of being a playboy or a bum.
You don't need a cape to be respected by others. What you need is integrity. Some pride, some integrity. A willingness to stop liking an infant who needs others to take care of them and become an adult who takes responsibility for the well being of others.
The fact that you don't realize that is a side effect of the medias inability to portray real men. We end up with a generation of males with unrealistic expectations who give up when they notice that they will never become Captain America. We end up with a generation of pathetic losers who get offended when it is suggested that they learn to be self sufficient. Make excuses for their failure as a male still leaves you a failure.
Most of these wives are stressed out cause they have to parent grown ass men in addition to their own children
Often these mediocre wives expect their husband to have the top 10% of men mindset and force it on them. It is ok for men to be average but women are not content with average men so they push them to be something they are not. Women need to give men a break.
@@timothyo718 Sir, nobody said men were expected to be extraordinary. They’re expected to pull their weight in the relationship and act like a responsible dependable adult. Miss me with that belittling women so they’ll settle for anything crap!
@@timothyo718 Men need to give women a break and start acting like a fully grown adult! Doing chores and all that shit.
Don’t marry children then
Surely, without absolving your partner of their responsibilities, you can be accountable for the partner you choose in some way?
I think the only good marriage dynamic I’ve seen shown in a film is in the Adam’s family.
To be real I wouldn't mind having gomez luck with business cause every thing he dose prints money
It’s Addams, “with two D’s, the second D makes all the difference!”
jk, agree with your comment
Yes! They truly love one another.
Gomez and Morticia are goals, also Evey and Rick from the Mummy duology the key is to each want to make the other happy
True, they are so into each other.
The way I see it, the “nagging” wife is the product of an irresponsible husband. There’s truth to this relationship dynamic but the problem is that most of these stories are from the male perspective and written by male characters so there is a natural lack of sympathy for the female perspective.
I agreeeee
Yep yep
Ms. Pat's show will fix that right up! Lol
Couldn't agree more
facts
I don’t see Marge as a nagger. She is ignored by Homer. She is often the voice of reason. She is trying to be heard. Homer is a bad stereotype . The dumb father trope.
I agree.
Well Marge would be accused of being an nag, when she stops putting up with Homer's BS
They did do an episode on chronic nagging
But being the Simpsons it runs deeper
lol I can hear marges voice in my mind
All true, but...her voice makes her naggy
When I started watching Breaking Bad, my friend (who is male, btw....) 'warned' me about how awful Skylar was. All I remember thinking was, '... she's got 2 kids: one is a baby, one has cerebral palsy, and she is about to become a single parent after her husband dies of cancer. All the while, her husband is cooking meth and is enjoying leaning into his Heisenberg persona.... and SHE'S the asshole of this scenario?!!'
It seems like it is a useful quick screen when getting to know someone. Kinda like seeing how they treat animals, or service people.
@@lightfeather9953 agreed. when people hate skylar white, it's kind of a red flag tbh
Similar experience with a co-worker who told me that Skyler was awful and they didn't like her and I was like, I'm sorry, how do you think anyone would react to finding out your husband was a drug dealer and was endangering all your lives?
THANK GOD, i'm not the only one that defends skylar
I agree that Walt is way (not even comparably) worse by the end of the series, but take the behavior of the relationship during the first several episodes and reverse the sexes. We'd say that male Skylar is being abusive and controlling towards female Walt. *edit for grammar*
"I know my love should be celebrated. But I watch you tolerate it"
Literally the nagging wife, hapless husband dynamic in a nutshell.
Living for the Taylor Swift quote! 🙌🏼
@@IdonotwantaUtubename she is a genius
@@lucypreece7581 she is. My favorite song on evermore
"Now I'm begging for footnotes in the story of your life." is the saddest Taylor Swift lyric ever. Ugh like a gut punch.
Yes taylor quote
Skyler White receives so much hate for being a nag when she was literally trying to curb her husband's excesses and protect her family from his dangerous and purely egotistical actions. Was she really expected to be quiet and supportive when this man was literally endangering hers and her children's lives all in the name of stroking his male ego?
it’s a trope because there is 100% truth to it.. women nag to get their needs met and are overall less content than men
That was weird, some hours ago I find a very interesting TikTok about that and now you girls post the video! The tik tok was of a marriage counselor, commenting that in her experience it was common the husband look shocked and surprised when the wife (after years of saying she was unhappy and asking for changes) decided to divorce. That's because the "nagging" wife is considered the "normal" In society, so the husbands fail to understand that their marriages have actual concerning flaws and brush it off untill is too late.
Men often have the attitude that women will be unhappy no matter what so its a wasted effort to try to get them to stop complaining. Giving in to one demand just opens you up to more.
Exactly what I've experienced. After years and years of sharing that I'm unhappy in our relationship and why I felt that way, my boyfriend was shocked when I told him I'm leaving him. (There is a reason why it's called a BOYfriend. Ugh.)
Yeah they think women are supposed to be unhappy in a marriage
omg I love divorse tiktoks (from what I've seen in kurtis connor's video about them). Sad men asking god, of all people, why their wives left, and happy women, who make no secret of why exactly they should have done it years ago - tragic, but somewhat funny still. You can't make this stuff up. Reminds me that the happiest demographic is women that never married or had kids
@@theunknown5386 heterosexual relationships are not deemed to suck, they just often do. Bother because you care about her or break up because you don't, don't mess with poor girl's head, psycho
The mediocre men are the problem in these movies and shows. The wives often have good reason to yell and scold. They're the voices of reason, but since the husbands/male writers don't want to own up to/change the husbands' issues, they blame the women. If the mediocre husband trope goes, the nagging wife will too.
Lol get out of here with your entitled demands. Thanks for more confirmation I should never get married
She partners with mediocre men, because exceptional men don't want her.
Men are the problem? You talk as though men don’t carry heavy responsibilities or have their own issues they have to work through. Society isn’t exactly kind to men’s struggles. We carry traumas from childhood, our own disappointments and sometimes wives look down on their husband when he opens up about it. So he deals with it by playing video games or drinking with his friends. It sounds like you sound walk a mile or two in a man’s shoes before making a statement like that.
"If the mediocre husband trope goes, the nagging wife will too!" Exactly what I was thinking! But I feel conflicted. I feel like good stories can still be told while using this dynamic. The main issue here is how viewers perceive the "nagging wife".
Exactly. The men in these examples come off just as bad. And guess what? A perfect couple is BORING to watch on screen. This channel takes things a bit too far sometimes. There would be nothing of interest to watch if we got rid of all the tropes they say should go.
The narrative of women wanting money from men drives me nuts. You built this system where women are financially dependent on men, then whinge that women see men as ATMs.
As I once said to my father, who liked to exclaim that we (his wife and daughters) only ever wanted money from him, THATS ALL YOU EVER OFFERED US! He never gave us the time of day, never spent quality time with us, never engaged with our lives. Paying for things was the extent of his contribution to our family. And now you want to complain that you’re hard done by. Boo fricken hoo
OMG, THIS!!! 👆🏼👆🏼👆🏼👆🏼well said!!
Well said!!! Very good points!!!💗💗💗
1)Men created a system where women are dependent on them. That still goes on much of the world. Another point is that men see independent women as undesirable.
1) That's all men " think" women want. Even from women who have plenty of money themselves.
Your father provides for his family and all you see him as is an ATM machine?? Would you rather he showed you all the love and affection without being able to provide?
@@tall_black_man4998 if all he contributes is money then that’s all he’s good for. What do you expect from them?
@@tall_black_man4998 I can assure you there were years where he didn’t work and provided no financial support or parental love.
And call me crazy, but I believe he (and all men) is perfectly capable of providing both income and parental support. I’m not sure why you think he is only capable of providing one or the other.
I can't stand the guy who doesn't do a thing, while everyone around him is doing everything 😤
@Erwin Lii maybe it's satisfying, but still, making someone to break down and go low as killing, isn't good for the long run. It's like you have two options - to be quiet or to kill, and they won't show you the in-between 😐
And I can't stand the girls who botch and whine about everything 😒
@Monserrath Jimenez I work 2 jobs and still have to do everything for my dad 😒
Trying to get out of the house but nothings available
it’s a trope because there is 100% truth to it.. women nag to get their needs met and are overall less content than men
I used to not get why my Mom gets so angry at my Dad but from an adult's perspective I can see that although he's useless with computers and technology in general he always takes credit for her contributions to their business plus he always was of the opinion than men shouldn't have to lift a finger in the house or do any significant parenting. Boomer generation men were probably very exhausting to live with and I'm not sure if that much has changed.
My father uses degrading insults against my mother when she as much as speaks, but when she gets angry he says "I didn't say ANYTHING control yourself"
@@smartass0124 You clearly didn't consider anything I wrote, my parents were running a business together and she arguably did most of the work, why would she have to "pay rent"? I don't think it's too much to ask for your husband to do his share of the work, at home and outside the home.
It hasn't changed in my experience, all the guys I've dated do nothing around the house and break out the verbal abuse when I ask them to contribute even slightly
@@Stauderhorse they learn this from the previous generations and it takes some real soul searching to realize that their parents imprinted faulty worldviews onto them.
Boomer generation men were terrible.
This reminds me of the "Supernatural Proof Father" Trope in horror movies, where the father, as the grounded, sensible head of the household, is usually the only one not to experience spooky goings on. Even when his wife or kids insist that something is awry, he'll remain blissfully oblivious until the climax.
I hope take do a video on that
Any good examples of this? All I can think of is Insidious
I don't watch horror movies so i'm pretty ignorant of all the tropes in them. But is still interesting to hear them non the less
@@kiriki4558 The Take has done at least one trope: the Final Girl
@@propogandalf Hereditary
I just saw this addressed by a couples therapist on instagram earlier this week! Same thing happens to the couples she counsels, again and again.
The wife will complain about the same stuff over and over. Nothing will change. One day she can't do it anymore and asks for a divorce - and the husband says he's completely blindsided.
The therapist pondered what was going on and realized that the men in these relationships saw the wife's discontentment as a normal part of marriage. They didn't see it as a problem. The nagging trope had reinforced to them that "nagging" is just a part of marriage. They never expected her to actually, genuinely want or expect change, and never expected her to leave.
So often when I encounter "nagging female characters" (i.e., women in highly discontent relationships with men who don't care that they are discontent), I ask myself why they stay. A lot of the women shown in this breakdown would've been better of on their own.
Since the wife = bad joke has been coined as boomer humor, I do think this trope especially comes from a time where leaving was impossible for women, no matter how bad it was. I hope we see less of these types of relationships making it into the long term as women get more empowered to survive and thrive on their own.
None of the people in these marriages are happy. In my language, one of our sayings is "Let fall what cannot stand on its own". Rather than fight to keep something scuffed alive, let it fall apart so both of you can find something better.
I hope more and more women will realize that it is not their responsibility or place to fix someone else. Live and thrive, and find someone with those same goals for themselves. And in the absence of that, it's better to be on your own, so you know the most important spots in your life is filled by people who look out for you and support your growth
Thank you for this breakdown The Take
I recently broke up with my boyfriend of four years because of this exact reason and he was shocked. When I told him I left because he didnt want to change his answer is that he didn't think I was serious about wanting change. Had so many fights where I was crying my eyes out, begging him to do better and he didnt think it was serious. Really showed his true colors.
@@screeching2181 Dating a guy for longer than 6 months was mistake #1. Why modern women waste years of their lives on "boyfriends" is beyond me. A wife gets far more respect than a girlfriend. A wife can demand change or else impart severe consequences (divorce). A girlfriend is completely powerless and has no leverage at all to demand change. Don't let yourself be a perma-girlfriend, you're being used.
@@QarthCEO Traditional marraige roles and marriage itself is an outdated concept. Not everyone wants to be a ''wife'' and some are satisfied having a partner to tackle life with- for however long or short as they see fit.
@@QarthCEO and why would anyone marry someone unless they've known them for years? If someone will only change after serious consequences or an ultimatum(in this case, divorce), that person needs to work on themselves alone before roping someone into their subpar life. Not to mention why would women marry someone just to have "control" ovet them which is what you're associating marriage with, like one couldn't end up with an abuser and/or rapist, and/or murderer, trapped because a marriage is a legal tie that cannot be dissolves without either both parties agreeing or a legal battle during which any of them could go crazy and harm the other. Men are also at risk of all these things, of course. All in all, your point doesn't have a leg to stand on for me and many others that know the reality of fear in your own home. A decent person will respect you and take your needs and wants into account even if you're not married.
@@edwardcallisto4485 Dating for years does NOT prepare you for the realities of marriage. Nothing can. Couples who date for years before marriage tend to get divorced shortly thereafter because everything changes and it disrupts what you've been accustomed to. The stats don't lie. The statistics show that short courting and engagements actually equal better, longer lasting marriage outcomes. This is shown all over the world where potential partners are first vetted by relatives as a "good match" before ever being introduced to each other. Then, if the couple likes each other, marriages occurs within 6 months. Only in Western countries to people date for years and the outcomes show it doesn't work if marriage is the goal. If it isn't, then fine, but nothing binds a man to a woman like marriage. "Boyfriends" are not loyal because the same reason you want them is the same reason other women want them and it's too easy to just leave for another woman. Men get more attractive with age because we accumulated more wealth and status. Women do not become more attractive with age. There is zero compunction to stay and work on the relationship and no downside at all to leaving. There isn't even a social stigma to breaking up with a "girlfriend" when she gets too old, fat, sick, boring, whatever. She ain't your wife, you owe her nothing. Thats just the nature of men, I'm trying to help you understand reality. Women who waste their youth, beauty, and fertile years on men who won't wife them up are being used.
I like how Mrs. Doubtfire does a pretty good job of deconstructing the nag and the irresponsible husband tropes. At the beginning of the movie, Sally Field and Robin Williams’ characters personify those tropes. However after their divorce and nanny disguise hijinks, Robin’s character is forced to grow up and can see how his behavior negatively impacted his family. Conversely, Sally’s character is able to have more agency in her life due to not always having to react to what her husband did or didn’t do at home. Her feelings of disappointment and dread towards the end of their marriage does a great job of humanizing her to the audience. Their relationship was toxic for both of them and they were better parents to their kids after divorcing.
If only we see more stories like this
There needs to be more stories about couples breaking up and it being shown as a positive decision
Omygod I never realized these tropes from the movie until you pointed them out. That makes perfect sense!
The musical version also really makes Miranda a much more sympathetic character. They really dived into "she seemed like a nag bc she seems so unfun compared to Robin Williams BUT look how obnoxious that marriage actually would be!"
@@nicholereed1079 Yes, a family is like a group project. If you have to work on five pages and the other person had to work on five pages, how stressed and irritable would you be if the person wasn’t doing their share and all of a sudden you had to do 10 pages? This, but for 10 years. 😅
The nag trope exist because of men writers, the story is always from their perspective
Reminds me of the cool girl trope bad male wrighters who wright bad female charecters
@@hadbetterdays8118 wrighters or writers?
Of course a story written by a male writer will be told from the male perspective. That's the perspective he knows the best.
Yeah.
How can you invalidate that when there's a "Karen" that goes viral every week?
Well Marge is mostly portrayed as more sympathetic than other "nags" since Homer is almost always portrayed as in the wrong. I am kind of biassed on this trope since i´m kind of a nag on real life mostly because i don't want people around me to get hurt or do a very stupid thing with predictable results
@@patrickissa5743 thanks
I think it's good that you want people to not get hurt or do stupid things but people who nag often do so to feel superior or prove that "they know better" when really the other person may know what they are doing.
But it's also easier to call someone a nag than to listen to them
Honey, from a person who used to be like that, stop. You're nobody's therapist, and nobody's mother (unless, you have actual kids).
Over time, your would get emotionally tired, I know that you want to help and you want the best for them. But people who actually want help would seek it themselves.
Hope for the best for you~
I've seen parents who are good loving but by their caring and not wanting their child to get hurt, don't give them enough opportunity to fail. Failing is extremely important for personal growth. The same applies to adults
Careful that you actually want to help them and not just lord how "right" you are otherwise people will do the opposite just to spite you
I'll be honest more often than not I'm on the side of the nagging wife. I mean most of the time I think it's more that the wife plays the straight guy role in the show, the character who is forced to be the voice of reason.
Karens are real and horrible people but I mean if you found out your partner was starting a drug empire how would you react? Or if your partner had an unhealthy relationship with their mother to the point they refuse to see how their constant negging hurts you.
That last one was Everybody Loves Raymond right?
In films yes most of these husbands are trash and the marriages are miserable, but a real life nag throws the same energy at a spouse who doesn’t tri-fold the towels, or hand wash the baby knits, etc. and it’s exhausting to be around.
@@rosegirl3220 Yep. Debra puts up with so much from that family, she's treated as the weird one but man the Barone family sucks. It's like watching someone be held prisoner by the most egotistic jerks on the planet.
karens are as much a stereotype now as the naggin wife. I dont see any male comparisons to a karen
@@madelinemcmillan4020 there's a patent pending song called "douchebag" it describes the male equivalent of a Karen. There's also this collegehumor video about basic bros.
The "nagging wife" trope almost never exist without the "henpecked husband," "lazy husband," or "dumb dad" trope.
But those men are elevated in a way. Like a man doesn’t need to be more than that.
@@purpurina5663 What are you talking about?
Well, they choose to marry those guys, so that's on them.
@@mrtyrant1680 lol sure, blame the woman. And also, "those guys" only show their true colors after marriage, before that they act like the perfect gentlemen.
it’s a trope because there is 100% truth to it.. women nag to get their needs met and are overall less content than men
Wanda and Cosmo in fairly oddparents were initially both a bit goofy and irresponsible until they were each flanderized into the dumb husband and nagging wife tropes.
This most definitely. "We're two halves of a whole idiot!' said by Cosmo while Wanda smugly agrees.
Also, there was a time BOTH of them were chanting "Do it!" to Timmy nervously adding a drop of a chemicals to something (I think it was a volcano science project) that immediately caused a massive explosion. Would never catch Wanda doing that in later seasons. I miss their dynamic, they looked like they were so much in love while in synch.
@@Takejiro24 And all the fat shaming of Wanda
Wandas original personality is a lot like how I try to be as a mom.
Yeah they ruin the caracters Cosmo in the early seasons even stood up for Wanda to his boy mom (who didn't want her son to marry annyone so she could keep him al for herself) he was one of the cartoons first stupid but good husband
This trope has had such a huge impact on me unknowingly and it's mind boggling. My first boyfriend kept slacking and not attending college and just wouldn't take his life seriously. I hated it but wouldn't say anything so I wouldn't be the "nagging" girlfriend. I kept supporting his behaviour by giving him money whenever he wanted (so that I could still be the cool girlfriend). We broke up after a year and I found out recently (4 years after we broke up) that he has an unpaid education loan (it's not very common in India to take out loans for undergrad degrees). He wound up losing a year of college, is still jobless 3 years after graduating, has a huge loan and lot of financial issues in his family. The worst part of it all for me is that I spent a good 2 years after breaking up blaming myself of enabling his behaviour with money🙄 Now I have a stable, healthy relationship but am out of a lot of money I had saved in college🤷
I wonder what his problem was? Mental health or something else? Good for you for getting to a better place and understanding.
@@lightfeather9953 I'm not sure... It was partly a sense of entitlement too. He didn't value the things he had back then and thought things will just fall into place no matter how much you screw up. It was just a terrible phase in his life. I'm happy that he's trying to get his life back on track but it's really really tough. He has almost no friends, financial burden and sort of shitty luck right now. I just feel bad for him at this point😕
Please do a spoiled kid trope. I think that would be very cool.
And the Daddys Girl. For how girls are led to excuse men while putting down their moms
AJ Soprano
ooo yea
@@jessicavictoriacarrillo7254 what do you mean by "excuse men" im really curious on the context
And/or an only child trope
I think the first time I encountered this trope and noticed it was while watching Fairly Oddparents. It felt like no matter what Wanda talked about, regardless of how reasonable her worries were, she was tuned out and referred to as nagging.
The reason why these under appreciated wives resort to nagging is their originally polite and gentle requests go ignored. Their husbands are too immature to have a productive conversation so they have to become combative.
Or the nagger is just a micromanager who wants to control every second of their spouses life. It's sexist how some people assume that if a woman nags, it is automatically the husband's fault.
@@greywolf7577Faxs!!!
I love that Marge gets pegged as a nag when all she is doing is just reacting to Homer doing crazy things
When i watched Breaking Bad the first time i really never think in a bad way about Skylar, i always see the things she says as true, and justifiable until the moment when she sees herself forced to work with Walter, in the end walter was the bad guy of the show and she was worry about all the danger he was bringing to their lives, and at the same time reading the comments of the people about her i was like... but she is right, Why the hate?
Thank you
The "bad morals" tendancies with the nagging wife serves to cast them as the bad guy even compared to husbands who are pretty bad, and kind of reflect changing mores.
In the ancient examples like Taming of the Shrew, just being a nag or a woman that wasn't sufficiently submissive to her husband was considered bad morals enough.
However, that's changed over time and I think we can see it starting with the 1960s examples. I think they realized that audiences even then might sympathize with the fact that if the man wants a traditional housewife who doesn't work, but isn't fulfilling his role as the financial provider, his wife has reason to be upset! He's the one in the wrong. So they had to not just make it that he isn't providing, but that her demands of what he provide are unreasonable. She doesn't just want a roof over her head and to be able to afford groceries, she wants to be a wealthy socialite.
That's also infidelity started being involved more often the more modern the examples get.
American Beauty really was the perfect example. I mean the protagonist is a guy who makes it his mission to have sex with his teenage daughter's equally underage friend. That's not a mid-life crisis, it's sexually predatory behavior! So his wife has to be shrill and controlling and materialistic and cheating on him to make him retain any sympathy.
Even Gone Girl, which is kind of subverts the tropes, also relies on it. Ben Affleck's character whines when his wife nags him about spending too much money and says she doesn't trust him, but starts off the movie complaining to his sister about what a bitch Amy is and is cheating on her with his student! The only reason he's a sympathetic character is because Amy is a literal sociopath who frames him for murder and then becomes a murderer herself.
And, honestly, that quote from Tony Soprano to his mother is probably the most accidentally self-aware one I've ever heard!
[paraphrasing and translating] "If you'd been born after feminism you'd have had a lot more options in life"
Yeah, that's true and probably why she's unhappy!
You're 180 degrees wrong on this. They don't make women nag to get you to sympathize with badly behaving men. They make men behave badly to get you to sympathize with nagging women. Your own comment perfectly illustrates how effective this is.
Also, since the advent of feminism depression and anxiety have been on the rise among women and their happiness in steady decline. Turns out that for most women the traditional female role was a sweet deal compared to what feminism pressures them into nowadays.
@@GrouchierThanThou Um...no, because the men are always the protagonists.
The man in American Beauty was the protagonist that we felt sympathy eventhough he was a pervert who was trying to screw a teenage girl, not his nagging wife whom it's very heavily implied might end up being falsely convicted of his murder.
The man in Gone Girl was the protagonist eventhough he wasn't really all that likeable, it's just that we feel for him because his wife did things that are super villian level monsterous. In the end, he's still not a good person. We're only on his side because Amy is a far worse one.
@@GrouchierThanThou feminism is allowing women to make and have more choices. Being a stay at home mom or housewife isn’t excluded.
@@GrouchierThanThou Then you’ve missed the point of Feminism. The point was not to make women “happy” the point was to give women the legal authority to make their own choices. Having a husband or parent commit you to a mental asylum or a convent against your will if you stepped a hair out of line doesn’t sound like a “sweet deal” to me. Authorities not giving a damn about domestic violence bc it’s “a personal issue” is not a “sweet deal.”
@@sandpiperr I was talking about the nagging wife trope in general, not about your two cherry picked examples. As to those though...
Amy in Gone Girl isn't even an example of the trope. In the first half of the movie she is portrayed as an isolated, depressed and scared housewife, not as a nagging housewife. There's like only one scene where she does some nagging. And that's only after Nick has been well established as a negligent, cheating, possibly murderous, asshole of a husband. Nick responds to the nagging with physical violence against her, so it's definitely not used to get the viewer to sympathize with him. In the second half of Gone Girl, after the plot twist, Amy is portrayed as a manipulative murderous psychopath, so still not as a nagging wife. Sure, the viewer is supposed to start to sympathize a bit more with Nick in this part of the movie, but that's not because of her nagging That's instead because he gets trapped in a marriage with a manipulative murderous psychopath.
In American Beauty the wife is cheating on her husband. The nag trope is about nagging wives, not cheating wives. So again, not an example of the trope. Sure, in this case the wife's bad behavior is aimed at making the viewer sympathize more with the protagonist, but if it'd just been nagging that wouldn't have worked. They had to make her cheat with a sleazy realtor to get that to work.
The worst example of the nag trope is Wanda from Fairly Odd Parents. Cosmo and Wanda started off as very equal partners, but as Cosmo started to become the incredibly stupid one, he started to, well, nag Wanda for being too much of a nag. Except she was never a nag, she was just being the smart one
Yeah I remember seeing the pilot and Cosmo's original self and was so suprised when I found out he was smart and sounded super handsome. Plus the worst part is when Wanda does lose responsibility and acts like Cosmo he actually takes responsibility and sounds like a voice of reason implying in a subliminally implying one has to be dumb to make things work
@@hadbetterdays8118 I feel like they could've pulled off a balance, Cosmo's voice in the series (the pilot sounds too much like Mr. Turner) while keeping him as smart as Wanda.
The 2014 comedy film "Neighbors" notably subverts this trope as Seth Rogen's character's wife (Rose Byrne) actually joins in on Rogen's schemes as a partner-in-crime instead of being the stereotypical nag (this trope is even lampshaded at one point when things are spinning out of control and Rogen questions why she didn't try to rein in his antics).
It helps that Seth Rogen said in an interview that originally the wife was written as the typical nagging voice of reason, but when he showed the script to his real life wife she pointed out that the wife character should be more likely to actually get in on the antics too and the script was adjusted accordingly.
I saw that scene and wanted so badly for the wife to say, "I'm [the baby]'s mommy, NOT YOURS!!"
That's so cool. Why is the idea of a wife being cool and fun so unusual?
@@lefu87williford55 Maybe because 99% of wives in real life aren't cool and fun lol they're the opposite
Exactly the example I wrote in my comment as well. They were both as immature and as irresponsible as the other one, and they were constantly shifting the ''straight person / comedic person'' dynamics back and forth. I loved seeing it.
Although the show wasn't mentioned here, it reminded me of Carry from King of Queens. When I was younger I thought Doug was fun and Carry was unnecessarily bitchy (also the word they use to discribe her in the show a lot). Watching it now, Carry is the voice of reason and Doug is irresponsible and lies to her a lot. Of course she has her faults too. But to just label her as the bitchy wife is very unfair in a lot of situations.
Same. And watching Everyone loves Ryamond ad an adult, Debra should had divorce Raymond. I hate him
No one did that but you. Everyone knew that she was the smart skinny one and Doug is the Chris Farley
Honestly disagree here….out of all the hot chick fat hubby couples they tried to make on tv theirs was the most realistic because Carrie was actually an ass. Not just with Doug, she was actually a mean person who married an idiot (note love the show love their chemistry)
@@jacksonbrown8019 True. Carry was,so,fatphobic at times. I hated practically all the characters on that show
Funny how every woman hates the "nag wife" trope but the "idiot husband" trope is fine.
The video talking about nagging wife X mediocre husband is getting sexist comments... Wonder if this means the people are seeing themselves as mediocre and that's where the real issue is. 🤔
I think the issue is many women don’t allow for men to be average. You are treated as a loser and deadbeat if you don’t strive to be the top 10% of men. Mediocre women themselves often feel entitled to the top 10% of men.
Not all guys have that hustle mindset or want to be an alpha male. However the women in their lives will castigate him for being mediocre and demand things he is not capable of. Women need to be better.
@@timothyo718 women ask for bare minimum and to be treated as an equal partner and men think this is asking them to go above and beyond. Truth is many men don't desire an equitable partnership and expect to have a bang maid like their fathers before them. Only now, less women are willing to put up with this and are finding self fulfillment within their own lives, not in relationships. But keep complaining and acting like it's our fault.👍
@@timothyo718 Then why do these men try to marry these kinds of women? It's not like you don't have agency. The problem is men aren't going for average women or they aren't listening when these women show signs of being demanding. They look at the pretty face. If you feel women aren't looking for mediocre women, why try and date them, then get unhappy that THEY'RE unhappy? I feel the same way with women. I believe they shouldn't even think about considering a mediocre man for MARRIAGE to avoid the "nagging" altogether. But we aren't arguing that here, are we? Women often regret the "mediocre" because they're thinking about the family's success, not just themselves. Most times, the men are only thinking about themselves, not how their actions would effect others. If you can't provide for a family, you don't need to be married or in a relationship. And that's perfectly fine. You are not defined by the relationships you are in.
@@timothyo718 There's absolutely nothing wrong with being average. The problem is that the men prortait in this media trope act like 15 year olds. They're constantly making bad decisions and messing things up. As a result the wife has to act like a mother, instead of a partner.
There are many average men who are responsible and act like a partner and friend in a relationship. If you are one of these men, then this video is not about you.
But after reading the comments, I get the feeling that some men have just come here to self-report.
@@mirithilrose54 That was exactly my point! We are not seing comments from women complaining about being portraid as the 'nagging bitch'... 🤷♀️
I hope this doesn’t sound horrible but can you guys consider putting closed captions on your future uploads? I loved this but didn’t hear all of I due to hearing problems!
And they make great points! Captions would be great for getting all the meaningful words.
How tf would that sound horrible lol? Politely requesting captions
I agree.
It doesn't sound horrible at all. You have every right to request reasonable accommodations.
That's not horrible. I would like closed captions too, because I have auditory processing disorder and have trouble understanding videos without subtitles.
I hate the attitude of “it’s always the women’s fault”
Both parties could be responsible for some mistakes made in the relationship, but the guy should take accountability.
Women become a nag because the partner makes the same mistakes that the wife have to fix all the time.
Then it relates to anger and trying to make the situation better.
I hate that it is seen as nagging when a person predominantly a female expects just the base level of respect or effort from a partner that she herself is giving. Like I have always seen relationships as an equal partnership. You love them and do stuff to make them happy so it is natural to expect it back. Like that's the whole point. I watch a lot of these shows and movies with the "nagging" wife trope and always think like why are these two people even together? There is no genuine love there. It is one sided. Only one person making effort. I know this is a weird comparison but I compare this trope to the song Tolerate It by Taylor Swift. Like why are you staying in a relationship that isn't giving you fulfilment? Like I hate that a woman standing up for herself and wanting respect and wanting to feel worthy is such a bad thing. I am a child of divorce so I have seen what happens when people are not being fulfilled in a relationship. It goes stale. It withers and dies. It hangs a dark cloud over everything. Both people in the relationship should feel loved and valued and respected and fulfilled by their partner. For both the base level things like equally taking care of a household and also for the bigger things like supporting each others careers and families and being the support during the hard times and validating each others emotions. Man we really get shown some toxic relationships in the media and expected to see them as normal and expected to want that future. Nope. You are worth more. Expect more.
@@smartass0124 i never said anything about abuse or control. I just said that it shouldn't be an alien concept for 2 people in a loving relationship to expect equal respect and love and fulfilment. Like why is a woman wanting the base level of love, respect, attention and fulfillment a bad thing? Why aren't women allowed to feel worthy or stand up for themselves? Relationships should be an equal partnership. Thats not a crazy concept.
EXACTLY. Then men who are "victims" to their wives' nagging are mostly just men who have been raised to do the bare minimum towards women without really wanting to change themselves.
@@lucypreece7581 that’s not what nagging means tho. Yelling at you for not folding the laundry perfectly the way she/he wants to is.
@@josetato my mum used to show me how to do chores and housework properly. I used it as an opportunity to learn rather than seeing it as nagging. She taught me hownto cook and clean and do laundry and manage money and when i messed up or did soemthing incorrectly she would make me try it again so that I was able to learn how to do it right. Andnif you are a grown adult going into a relationship and you can't fold laundry you are not an adult you are a child. It's not a big ask for someone to want a partner who knows how to be independent and look after themselves properly. Like Ime your partner not your mother. I am here to love and support you and be your equal. I am not here to run around after you doing literally everything. Instead of seeing it as nagging, see it as an opportunity to learn and improve.
@Onion Potato what rights are men lacking though? Why do men need activism? Are they actively oppressed by society? Does society tell them that the only way to have worth is to look pretty? Are they discouraged from doing certain job? Are they paid enough for their job? When they come forward about stuff like sexual assault are they told they are liars? Do the courts go through every detail of their life to try and disprove their trauma? Are men told to dress a certain way or act a certain way so as to "protect themselves" and not cause stuff like harassment? Are men unable to be in spaces alone or walk alone at night out of fear of attack? Do men have to pay 5% VAT on an ESSENTIAL product that basically allows them to function and get through their normal day? Are men called words like slut or whore or tramp for sleeping around and having multiple past partners? Are men who actively choose to never have children seen as selfish? Is their an innate pressure on men to settle down and get married and have children? Are men prevented from coming back to work after having a child? I could keep going. Men are not oppressed. If there is a culture of toxic masculinity then guess who created it? Men. Something tells me you are bitter that women have rejected you in the past when you have made a pass at them and you expect a woman to basically mother you and be a subservient wife and mother. Crawl out from under your hole and realise its 2021.
I am perceived as a nagging wife. I sacrificed everything for him, while he slandered me to his friends, and refused to support us financially despite making twice what I do. He recently walked out after physically abusing me with our son in my arms. He said I was too involved in his life and that I was trying to control who his friends are and when he goes out. Recently saw him on the road with one of his female friends shopping for our son. I guess she isn't nagging
Or she's just a friend. Nagging in friendship vs nagging in relationship is quiet different
I'll never understand this dynamic. Why would you want to stay in a relationship where one partner is a) constantly complaining or b) constantly acting irresponsibly? Just get out asap.
Faaaaacts👏👏👏👏
If you're married and have kids, you can't really do that easily.
@@binibini5137 it's not impossible. I did it. Best thing I ever did. My ex is lazy and unambitious to no end. I left him the house, which small but nice and he turned into a latrine.. oops I mean man cave. My son doesn't like to stay there, he says it smells like feet. 😂😅😅
@@incisivecommenter5974 Lmao. As stereotypical as I know this will sound, when "the son" doesn't want to stay over because it smells like feet, you know you've messed up.
100% also all of the takes on here about "well it's the irresponsible husband's fault" is kind of victim blamey (although hard to call someone being annoyed a "victim"), but my father is a nagger and if you fix one thing he's complaining about he'll just find another and another and so on until the end of time.
I've always has to point out how sitcom women always marry some peter-pan syndrome guy and have to " mommy" them but never saw the whole Shrew Trope it's raging ubiquity. Ack. Is there a better way to portray drama in intimate relationships?
I think one step is giving your characters their own personalities and having their flaws be a result of those. Another is that if you don't want "the complainer" to be their one character trait, then either try making it a flaw they have to overcome and have others hold them accountable for her own actions and unhappiness.
Giving them enough chances and agencies to improve or to let go. Don't let them feel stuck and hopeless all the time.
@@evanliu1939 Bingo! Watching any character struggle is actually a good thing in concept because it's a key element of storytelling. It's when we have them do the same things that make themselves and others miserable over and over again that limits their potential and makes their suffering seem totally unnecessary and completely avoidable if they only put in even the tiniest bit of effort to grow beyond it.
The Sopranos is a great example of a good relationship, despite its' inclusion in the video. Maybe it takes a great actress like Eddie Falco to provide the nuance, but she's quite a popular character is the mostly male fandom. Considering what a piece of shit Tony is she isn't really a nag- if anything her biggest flaw is the exact opposite, the way she is often happy to turn a blind eye to what he does because of the money and status it gives her.
I agree that it's overdone in media, but there are definitely people like this (people who unnecessarily beat down/criticize their spouses)
Yup, I've seen both women and men who would constantly belittle and make fun of their partners so that they're "Kept in line" and "Easy to control".
Yes yes yes
Of course there are actual people like this, but this trope is very much created by men dominated media who were just tired of changing their ways to respect and hear women out as feminism grew.
The trope, both in media and in real life, of "wives and women always nagging and complaining about unimportant stuff" should die, because it dismisses women and always shows men as the "victims"
Agree with the other comments. That sentence should be more of a "criticize their wife/spouse"
It needs to be depicted as abuse and not just a joke.
It also doesn't help that in long runners, like The Simpsons, the writers stubornly resist writing a divorce, even when the problems escaled from common misunderstandings between the couple to downright life treatening and psicologicaly damaging to both members, and confuse apathy to this unhappy situation with "true love".
Honestly I’m not a huge fan of long running shoes
They usually lose out on quality and characters flanderized or just straight up ruined
It's not that kind of show.
This goes back to be the patriarchal systems that has been going on from the dawn of time. The "Nag" is not just a stereotype but an unfair advantage that the society thinks of this divine order that women are supposed to be this sensitive, loving, caring wife to a husband that doesn't have one inch of empathy or responsibility for their action. Look at all the world politics today.... Women in politics like Angela Merkel who made Germany back to power it should be, after what Germany has been through or Jacinda Ardern who eradicated Covid-19 in New Zealand. These women took the initiative that most men with egos in politics couldn't make because of their status as men. Although the "Nag" troupe is quite unnecessary, it showcases that women are the voice of reason, responsibility and women are not appreciated.
Op thinks we live in patriarchy because she ignores the existence of 90 percent of men.
Out. Men are far more oppressed in society
@@PeterParker-yg6fc I don't understand what you are saying. Please explain?
@Nick Bravo Please explain this to me??? This is a genuine question. I am not male bashing.... just want a conversation.
@Onion Potato I didn't say anything against men by any means. I have specifically said that in this society of patrirchy, the term "nag" is an unfair name heading towards women, when we are the ones cleaning up for the mess of male's ego. This is not to bash or criticize all men. This is for the egotical and sometimes maniacal men who thinks women should know their place. How is that sexist, please tell me?
Also, this is exactly what proves my point about patriach society, you're bothered by what I've said. Two birds, one stone.
Another thing that needs to end is the whole doofus incompetent father trope seen in various commercials and sitcoms. The wife is always framed as clever and smarter than the man.
I am sick of seeing this dynamic in commercials. Somehow it is always man makes dumb mistake and wife comes in to the rescue. Stop. Be Better.
I would love to see this in reverse
@@millsgurl8358 A doofus, incompetent woman constantly being rescued by her husband.
That will *never* get greenlit. *Ever.*
That's been around surprisingly since the 40s
Not surprised honestly. I’ve seen so many viral videos about fathers who don’t even know their child’s birthday. Not to mention a lot of men already do what’s requested of them wrong so the wife can fix it.
Guess who usually writes these scripts?
The most persistent mutation of this trope seems to be the 'know-it-all' mum and 'dumb dad' trope which can still be found everywhere in children's shows, commercials etc. The male characters confident ignorance played for laughs while the female matriarch delivers the lesson/product to the audience.
Only difference being the female character has their exasperated nagging switched out for occasional chiding of the 'dumb dad' with smart-alec remarks.
People only see the reaction or attitude but not the actions that caused it
As T Swizzie said, a man can react. A woman can only overreact.
Im team "naggy wife!" She wouldn't have to "nag" if she had a husband that wasn't useless.
Please do a video on Lynette from Desperate Housewives! Rewatching the show and it is INFURIATING how the show portrays Lynette as this awful, controlling wife and Tom is just this saint of a husband? I don't think I've ever hated a character more than I hate Tom Scavo, he was the biggest emotionally abusive gaslighter with a perpetual nice guy victim complex, and yet somehow the show ALWAYS took his side?!!? it's infuriating rewatching it now. Lynette deserved better. :(
Oh my god, how many times are you going to lionize Amy Dunne of 'Gone Girl'? She's NOT a hero? She wasn't acting "in response" to people. She was shown as having a lifelong pattern of deception and manipulation based on a need to be perceived as perfect and would destroy anyone who threatened her persona. The scene of her lashing out at Nick for trying to "force her" into the "nagging wife" role was a MADE UP scene from her diary intended to paint Nick as an abusive shit up and show a gradual build up. No one forces personas on Amy; she senses what she believes the person wants (male or female) and becomes whatever she thinks they want, not showing her true face to anyone. 'Gone Girl' does NOT fit your thesis and it doesn't support the role you want it to prove. The whole POINT of Gone Girl was Amy deciding that she could terrorize Nick into become what SHE wants instead of pretending to be what she thinks he wants (which he never asked her to as he'd never known her any other way), and actually IS the ultimate "nagging wife" to the nth degree because he is scare that if he doesn't tow Amy's line, she'll either frame him and send him to jail, kill them or harm her child. She IS a controlling bitch. You didn't read the book and you didn't understand the movie. Stop using Gone Girl as a feminist positive narrative. It couldn't be further from the truth.
@@NotAFanOfHandles She made a couple good observations about gender politics. So what? Charles Manson raised a few good points, too.
I love that in *Taming of the Shrew,* Petruchio "tames" Kate by alternately starving her and sexing her until she was too worn out to resist his commands. Most people who haven't read Shakespeare don't know that. But the trope lives on in so much of our film lore today.
Women don’t “nag” they just care and have a voice of reasons, and there’s no reason to if the husband actually goes and does whatever needs to be done. It’s a sexist way of shaming women for wanting to get stuff done and caring and it’s also very manipulative and belittling
Women definitely do nag. My wife just got done nagging because I did the very thing she wanted to do. She wanted me to be home more so I switched my job and worked a shift that allows me to be home early in the morning. Literally gave her the option to what time and what days she wants me to pick. Not even 5 days in and she is nagging how the time she picked is conflicting with her schedule. Now I'm the selfish ass hole who only thinks about himself 🙄. Women don't notice nagging for some reason. They will all find what the woman is doing as correct but if the man was to do it then he'd be seen as crazy.
@@R.O.T.C._SEEM Go tell you wife why you here?
Women definitely nag.
This is usually followed by the man leaving the "nagging" wife for the younger "cool girl" who will eventually turn into a nagging wife coz the dude hasn't changed at all and the cycle continues...
It’s so many tropes I have learned from watching this channel. I didn’t know how so many can be harmful especially to women.
There is no such a thing like tropes. This channel just spells feminist bullshit.
@dang_an1 to fictional people like you.
How anyone can defend Melissa from Hangover is beyond me. She cheated on Stu, and she beats him. Who would dream of defending a man who des that as justifiably insecure?
(And yes, I am female).
I don't think it's defending so much as trying to find a recognizable human in a character that was all nasty stereotype
People defend her?!
They seem to put her in the video as a example of a nagging wife when no she was a bad girlfriend. Same with Sarah Silverman character in School of Rock yes she had valid points but she was no controlling not a nag
I love the episode of Modern Family when Didi comes to town and Gloria is pregnant and Didi explains that the reason she became a nag is because Jay didn't do anything and her and Gloria bond about the Jay's apathy and detachment making them into nags.
I feel like it's the reaction to these female characters that is the issue. We can acknowledge Skylar in breaking bad was emasculating and controlling of Walt before he started cooking meth, but not overreact by sending the actress death threats! I think that's the problem, the overreaction to women who aren't accommodating 100% of the time biting their tongues in order to remain being 'nice', etc.
"Emasculating" is such a weird concept. Demeaning or demoralizing or disrespecting -- ok, but a woman taking away a someone's manhood? Men aren't held responsible for us keeping our womanhood.
@@Tracymmo I agree that we should do away with the concept of emasculating. Unfortunately, a lot of masculinity is tied to traditional gender roles which requires that both the man and woman play a defined role. If the woman doesn't want to play her part (I don't because it's the opposite of empowering), the man isn't able to fulfil his gender role fully and he feels emasculated. Time to do away with gender roles and stereotypes!
It's not only female actors that get death threats. A lot of male actors do as well. With that being said, those who send those threats are just straight up psychos that don't deserve respect
The nag is often the voice of reason and IMHO in reality and fiction some men need to be ‘nagged’. 😂
@@smartass0124 I have NO IDEA what point you were trying to make in that rambling mess. Please try with something more lucid next time
Yes, this trope is used too often to make the audience root for the male protagonist who is doing dumb/illegal/bad things. There are some characters who are nagging but most of the time, they are actually just the voice of reason. I really hated how the show framed Skylar White as a nag when she is just trying to keep her family from falling apart, going to jail or dying!
I cannot STAND Everybody Loves Raymond. Or any mediocre Vince Vaughn/Adam Sandler-esque male character who ends up with the smart, pretty, together woman. It’s not just about the nagging wife, it’s also about how much slack those men are cut. It always ends well for them; their mediocrity has no consequences. Ugh.
I'm a man, and I watched both Mad Men and Breaking Bad and my favorite characters by far were Betty Draper and Skyler white. I'm on the last season of the Sopranos now and I LOVE Carmela, but Tony is still my guy. I hate how he treats her, but for some reason I still really really like Tony. I HATED Walt mainly for his ego and how he treated Skyler. And I really liked Don, despite his flaws.
Great analysis on the nagging wife trope! I'd like to see The Take's analysis on the 'dumb dad' trope, a trope that often goes hand in hand with the 'nagging wife' trope in many a family sitcoms and cartoons.
10:58 She literally cheats on him, and is a horrible controlling woman in his life but you still make her out to be the victim. She’s not a victim, if a man did what she did, the man would be a horrible person, but when a women does it, she’s a victim? Why do men always have to be villains in the eyes of a feminist?
Cuz you can't ever be a feminist without a touch of misandry. It's simply impossible.
Yh say that nonsense to the American beauty movie
I don't think men or male writers are too interested in retiring this idea or it's representation in media. I think we- like every dominant social group- recognize the power of playing the victim too much. So there will Always be women who are terrible for asking us to do reasonable things/step up🤷🏾♂️
So what you're saying is no woman EVER nags unreasonably?
@Christopher Brown where did you read that in what I said? Honestly?🤦🏾♂️
I love these videos, they do a great job of exploring a topic from multiple perspectives.
Marriage is always painted as duty. And usually, only on woman's side. No man is my duty. I'm no his legal guardian. He is my partner, and he'll be a good partner or I'll make it without one. I will not nag, I'll say what's wrong once, and on the second time I'll have to bring it up, I'll leave instead. I can do better
A lot of people don't like Everybody Loves Raymond, but one thing I think it does well is that, even though Debra is a nag, the show usually portrays her as being in the right.
This is why Lois from Malcolm in the Middle deserves more hype.
She managed to keep that family together through incredibly difficult circumstances.
Similarly Hal is a great example of loving, positive masculinity.
holywood hates marriage
As they say "you can't build a kingdom with someone who's satisfied with settling for a village."
Bruh yall really out here doing tropes i didn't even know existed. Thank You, yall out here doing the People's work and im here for it
I think there is a difference between the "nagging wife" and the "karen who is unfortunately married".
I had a friend whose mom was a total Karen. She grew up during the 1960s and had an entitlement complex, and she's a contradicting person; she would criticize and nag at her kids for not doing a good job at their chores and for being lazy, but would push them aside to get the cleaning and cooking done 'better' as the way she does it. Her kids work doesn't look ever look good enough to her, as she thinks because she had experience that she could do better than them. She also grew up admiring fascist leaders, especially the dictator in her native country which had a Junta during the 60s and 70s.
If men would just listen more closely we wouldn’t have to nag.
21 years of marriage and my husband had yet to figure it out.
Because it's nothing to figure out. Yall are just built to nag nag nag. It's plenty of things your husband wafts you to do but I bet he doesn't nag you because he knows it's annoying as hell. He tells you once and if you don't do it then fine. Even my wife nags about the very thing she nagged me to do. I literally have to break it down to her like a child and she still doesn't understand. For example my wife was nagging about my job and how I can't be home more often. I got a new job and let her pick what time I should work and which days. She picked the time and the days. Not even 5 days into the job and she's nagging about how the time doesn't work anymore because it conflicts with her schedule. Tried to explain to her that she picked the time and days. Even showed her the messages of it and she still tries to say I didn't communicate with her. Even her mom is agreeing with her. It's mind blowing how delusional women can be. It's like yall don't live in reality but yall feelings
@@R.O.T.C._SEEM sorry what’s the problem why won’t you leave your wife don’t complain online
This trope is also used to dismiss abusive women. For ages I was told my mother’s horribly abusive treatment of my father was just how women are, but men shouldn’t be constantly belittled by their wives. That’s not ‘just how women are’. It’s abuse
I've been called a nag for the crime of not wanting a roach-ridden house
If somebody swears to me when I'm driving, I'll nag to my girlfriend. It's not something that I can control. I guess if I was a woman and I had to tolerate sexism everyday, i' d nag more than I do now.
Answer:. Because most Hollywood writers are Boomers (men in their 50s to 70s). Get younger riders with much more nuance takes on gender. Then you get better couples with much healthier Dynamics!
Also this is very r/thestraightsokay?
I like the r/thestraightsokay? Kind of makes me lose faith in humanity a bit but some parts are funny. (Also agreed, this is like that.)
@@HiBuddyyyyyy Lol as a bisexual girl I also like the post r/the straightsokay . It is funny and it helps me get rid of any toxic gender behaviors I have. Honestly it's a really good learning tool while giving you a good laugh 😆
@GalaxyEspeon very true😁
I truly cannot express how grateful I am for this brilliant piece of work. From the bottom of my heart.
I recently discovered your channel, and it has already become one of my favorite subs. I watch a lot of videos that analyze and critique movies and shows, but your channel makes me realize a lot of the harmful things that video media perpertuates. I never realized how much Asian men are emasculated or how the "Strong Black Woman" trope is actually ironically harmful. You guys are very insightful and I appreciate this content. KUTGW!
In most of these films, the husbands are trash and the marriages are miserable overall, but a real life nag throws the same irritable, uptight energy at a spouse who forgot to tri-fold the towels, or hand wash the baby knits, or bought the wrong brand of milk... and it is more than a little exhausting to be around.
@@smartass0124 people do commit suicide from harassment so I really don't get why you're trying to minimize how bad harassing someone is. Imagine not being able to walk down the street without feeling like you're a target for men to say or do whatever they want to.
Amen a lot of good men put up with that abuse.
You're evil.
This makes me think of the overall common cartoon trope of parents where the husband is a lazy dumbass and the wife is a scary nag. It’s all over cartoons (Wanda and Cosmo in fairly odd parents, Nicole and Richard in The Amazing World of Gumball, etc.) what’s weird is they expect me to think their relationship is loving? Like if you need to dedicate an entire episode where the relationship nearly falls apart but then they’re reminded of their love, kinda just shows that their relationship is barely hanging on…
Oh I was really waiting on this one :)
Edit: and you guys fully delivered
Great video! One thing that I think is worth adding to this analysis is that even when an antihero show focuses on a female lead it still often manages to insert some version of this trope into its narrative - a great example is Homeland where Carrie’s sister is this pretty reasonable character that rarely functions as anything more than an annoying obstacle for the protagonist to overcome in order to do the cool antihero stuff that drive the viewers to the screen.
If they write it out does that make my wife stop constantly doing it?
Best comment 😂
Really? Hace you ever considered your wife's feeling and just heard her out?
Or are you using this trope of "women always complaining" as a proof that you are the right one and she at wrong?
@@kiaraswan9940 it’s just a joke I’m not even married 😂
@@EricJae. it's a nice joke 😂 but there might be people who actually believe you lol
I just realize i lived in that kind of dynamic for 3 years and he used to idealize the simpsons relationship and wanted us to be like that... man, what a way to start a sunday...
Thanks a lot for including six feet under on this trope, This show deserves more recognition and their characters as well
Laughed at the line about Betty's "increased workload". Most of her "work" revolved around making herself pretty. She had a black woman doing most of the real work.
It's probably gonna get lost in the comments but I wanted to talk about Killing Eve. I loved the couple Eve-Niko especially because, for once, the dynamic is inverted. Eve is the spy taking dangerous decisions and Niko is the husband asking her to stay safe and be home more often. The problem with nags is that it puts women in boxes, and it's so refreshing to see other types of middle-aged couples. Not all married women act this way. Not all couples have that dynamic. It's getting tiring that these characters are always written the same, especially in family series. If I ever have children, I don't want them to grow up and think there's only one way to be a father or a mother. There's millions.
Absolutely wonderful video, but I have a minor correction. In the segment about Atypical you use the term "high functioning" which has been considered harmful and often inaccurate by the autistic community for a while. So on the future, try avoiding functioning labels to describe autism
Came here to say this!
Better phrasing would be “low support needs” rather than high functioning and “high support needs” rather than low functioning
I came here to say this but I'm glad it's been said. Functioning terms are gross.
@@shannonmcgahey7090 Yeah, though I personally think that can still be reducing autism to something a bit two-dimensional too. The ideal for me would probably be to just refer to it as just "an autistic son". But it can obviously be helpful to point out the support needs in a lot of contexts
@@starswirldotpng totally agree!
This video is absolutely brilliant (as usual)! The only thing I’m missing is perhaps a small mention to Desperate Housewives, a show that dignified this trope and gave us a deeper view on what being a wife and a mother feels like, quite ahead of its time!
Nevertheless, congrats! Your sharp depictions of women in media always help me understand much better what surrounds me and even my own feelings.
I love your insights on different tropes and what they say about our society! Can you do one on the "yandere" trope? It originally started in anime/manga (most notably Yuno from Future Diary), but it's all over the place with Mrs Lovett from Sweeney Todd, Frollo from Hunchback of Notre Dame, Alex Forrest from Fatal Attraction, etc.
They have an unhealthy obsession with the person of their desire, and in most cases has a tragic backstory.
Marge Simpson is not a nagging wife.
I’m not alone. Marge should not be on that list. Homer is way below a mediocre husband. He does things that constantly gets himself and his family in danger. Marge is saving him and the children, with no appreciation
She's on constant damage control but even she sees herself as a nag because of it.
I've always felt like the nagging wife was just a result of a husband who treated his wife like shit for years.
A guy who promised her the world to get her and she believed it
Who treated her like a princess at the beginning and then stopped when he actually got her
I already thought so as a child watching sitcoms
This hit home🥲
I really really hate the "take my wife please" type jokes, I always wondered why they would even stay together when they so obviously hate each other so much
My mom be nagging my dad everyday at least once an hour when after he gets home. That's why the trope will stay; because its a very true trope
My mom nagging me 🙄
Ironically I know more men who nag me more then most woman I know
*Bravo, this is a good one. It made me view the nagging wife trope in a different view. You guys are making Holywood writers work more hard trying to come up with more real and characters with depth.*
Yeah, after we write out goofy dad trope from every commercial, series and movie ever
That's not even close to being comparable.
Well maybe if dads stopped being so goofy, moms wouldn’t be so nagging.
Yep. I agree. Show husbands as confident, capable men instead of the bumbling idiots they are currently portrayed as and the nagging wife will die a natural death.
My mom was really abusive to the men in her life and shows like Everybody Loves Raymond made me afraid my mom was just an extream version of what's normal.
Where the men lazy in your family? Did they ignore here? What's the context here?
@@incisivecommenter5974 she was violent. Are you trying to say my dad, or step dads, or me and my brother could have deserved the abuse because you assume we were lazy?
@@incisivecommenter5974 She liked hurting people. That's the context. She saw us as avatars who embody the men who abused her instead of human beings that she was abusing.
@@incisivecommenter5974 do you really think ignoring someone's demands justify them screaming at you while climing on top of you to punch you in the face over and over? Is "being lazy" equal to that?
@@incisivecommenter5974 until the day she died she bragged to me about what she did to my father and how people laughed at him, fucking laughed for saying he walked into a door to explain his black eyes.
It came to my mind the film 'Neighbors', where there's a couple portrayed by Seth Rogen and Rose Byrne. When I saw it, I was expecting just that, a nagging wife who doesn't allow her husband to have fun and scheme against their new neighbours. However, it was surprising because, Byrne's character, not only didn't nag his husband, but also took part in it. It was so refreshing that, at the moment, I realised how few characters like that are written.
I can’t stress enough how much I love everything you do❤️ tysm ❤️🔥❤️🔥❤️🔥❤️🔥
16:47 would you talk about the tiger mom trope?
I was recently thinking about this trope which makes me feel enormously uncomfortable because I know how ridiculously unfair it is. Because it is almost invariably viewed from the male gaze, frustration that is not expressed as testosterone-induced violence - which films tend to idolize and film again and again in blood-spurting, flesh-wrenching violence in slow motion until they are almost entirely meaningless of any actual horrifying violence - verbal taunting or nagging is viewed as the worst most terrible type of violence. How can that be true? From a male gaze to justify violence against women, of course! Take this particularly disgusting and dreadful example of exploitation: a guy has a nagging, shrewish wife - so he feeds her to a hideous violent monster under the stairs. Her last words are "when was the last time you were a man in our bed, Henry"; her disatisfaction with her life is revealed to be only his experience of her. This ISN"T the nagging wife we see during the exposition; that was all HIS frustration, which in the end he can't face up to. The actual violence he allows to be perpetrated by a piece of pure male violence which has been tightly strung since it was left under the stairs, waiting to burst out and murder stuff indiscriminately! Romero's Creepshow made me feel uncomfortable at the time when I saw it. But I still rooted for her to get eaten. I resaw it and it disgusted me; I viewed it with completely different eyes and now it just makes me mad: Hideous Harridan Helps Husband Hatch Heinous Homicide ...