And the early-bird sign-up page for your Free poster with “CROM: The Destroyer” is at www.indiegogo.com/projects/crom-the-destroyer/coming_soon/x/18949801 Thomas Valiant second chance is @ www.indiegogo.com/projects/thomas-valiant-second-chance--2#/ A disgraced superhero brings together a new team in an attempt to reclaim the title of Hero. “The Valiant Heroes” is available at www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-valiant-heroes#/ CROM Promo Trailers are @ ua-cam.com/video/nINChl1lv8g/v-deo.html ua-cam.com/video/bPtm0rGXhjE/v-deo.html You can find me on Twitter @rjoftheisland
4:45 actually I would have to disagree with death being the only way to create tension.. a lot of tension is based on beliefs of the characters as well... sometimes... no heck a lot of the tension is based on who gets what they want from their contradictory view-points... or not. cops vs robbers, friend vs foe, rival vs rival, truth vs falsehood, god vs devil... etc. also technically with the reader that is the case with 5:20... just not within the stories scope, but within the market's scope. Hope you have a great day & Safe Travels!
As a Objectivist myself, I would challenge on you about selfishness, as you do have more links to Plato and religious thinkers like Augustine, as I have more inference to Aristotle and Ayn Rand. As for your video about Multiverse stories, it was interesting and I can agree how writers can use it as a excuse to reboot a character, while disregarding it's original for cheap new.
Bro that is Gnosticism...hm your not dumb like the pie guy. Most comic channels are right idiots. Subing. Not enough on the right talk like this anymore.
Multiverse Stories have been around for a long time they can be told well and have been told well the idea of infinite realities and infinite versions of characters has been done in nearly all franchises with stories and characters. Saying you hate multiverse stories or that there all bad is fundamentally false. Like Time Travel it can work and has worked based on how well it's written. These Spiderverse Movies which are pretty great and fixed Miles Morales characters are perfect examples of that.
Plus, multiverses fall into the category of cosmic horror. Because multiverses are liable to induce insanity in your characters. The idea that you are just one of an endless repetition of who you are with only minor deviations will leave you broken emotionally as well as on a personality level. It is at its base level utterly dehumanizing. Nobody can survive that with their emotional health intact. It destroys all concept of self. You get something like that Jet Li film "The One" where the guy found out about a multiverse and went in turn insane and then berserk trying to kill every other iteration of himself. Because that was the only way he could not fall completely apart and loose himself. Because of the above multiverse stories will always seem off, because the reader/viewer knows this would break the characters and thus the characters are unconvincing.
Reminds me of Owlman from Crisis on Two Earths who tried to destroy the multiverse simply because he found it terrifying, knowing that every choice and possibility will simply create new realities for better or worse. It makes sense that the multiverse for all it's endless possibilities would cause dread to those that can't comprehend it's existence, knowing there are different versions of you living different lives in other realities and the possibility that you are technically not even the original must be mind-shattering.
it depends, I mean eventually it would break them to a point where they become a potato via some universe which cannot be understood. but at the start they'd be fine unless simply gazing upon it causes insanity, but assuming that it doesn't. the only way to keep them sane is an emotionless guide who knows their stuff, or one of them going emotionless, or someone who is blind and deaf and cannot feel touch and understands their surrounding via some 28th sense which can handle some parts of the multiverse. but this is pretty specific and I have not seen a-lot of stories do these, so they will probably just go insane or die from hopping into a super nova accidently.
That's basically the theme of the movie Coherence. It ends with the group of friends going crazy after they realize that they're trapped inside a multi-dimension. A few of them try to kill all of their clones. The heroine runs away from the madness to eavesdrop on her clones until she found one with her ideal life. She then kills that clone & steals her identity to live the clone's life. The clone's friends & family eventually realize that their version of the heroine was killed by the movie's heroine.
There's a strange fear of (or dismissal of) closure. People these days don't like the idea of death or closure in stories. I believe that's one reason why there are no real stakes. No one wants to deal with grief. But grief is part of our human existence.
The only “people” who fear closure are the IP owners, who want to be able to sell their IP for as long as possible, which permanently killing popular characters gets in the way of.
Remember when Peter got married? Oh wait, she's the new superhero and Spiderman is just a piece of shit. (Here's my edit Google, you're run by thr same kind of see you next Thursday) a c u n t. Good stories have morals, you learn th3n by reading a good story. I'm angry with people thinking race = intelligence.
Because it is the end cycle of caped superhero stories. And now that these characters are being exploited to the bone by their respective movie studios, they have to search the bottom of the barrel for more ideas, and multiverse stories/retcons/revivals are the last ideas that they've got.
They don't have to search the bottom of the barrel.. Since Kevin Feige seized complete control of Marvel in 2016 and dissolved the writers group (which included people like Jeph Loeb etc) there is no one in the company who respects comics, and thus they aren't mining the hundreds or thousands of classic Marvel comic book stories and are doing this multiverse garbage instead.
When Marvel first started doing "What If" stories, they were used to highlight how even small changes in choices or circumstance could lead to massive changes, in short, they were using the multiverse to highlight the reality and importance of free will And when DC first used their Multiverse, it wasn't made up of alternate reality counterparts, but rather vastly different realities that operated in vastly different ways It wasn't until much later that they adopted more of a Postmodernist Rick and Morty-style take on the Multiverse, so if you take that into consideration, the idea of a Multiverse isn't the problem, but how it's been utilized
Naja Meister. So einfach ist es nicht. The system theory like that of Niklas Luhmann proposes a recursive functionality. So any proposition inserted to the the system goes down the recursive tree to the end or until a solution is found. Therefore: any proposition of the multiverse, no minor it seems at the beginning, will lead to this point.
@@bathyalgames Then perhaps a simple change of perspective; If every possibility created by every possible action exists, then every choice matters because they all have an effect, and even if the differences start out small, as time goes on and different choices continue been made, the end result would be vastly different outcomes Futurama once did an episode showcasing this with Universe 1 & Universe A, where the result of things like coin flips were different, and the impacts of such results were highlighted
Remember what the bad Guys clone said to the villain in the Schwarzenegger film "the sixth day" Dying bad guy: "aren't you going to wait for me to die?" Clone who is stealing clothes off him: "would you?"
Spot on. Multiverses are the death of story because it becomes a back door for the worst narrative loopholes imaginable. Singling out death in particular was a good call not only because it undercuts all tension, but also because it robs characters of any true narrative conclusion. Even if a superhero retires peacefully, a new version of himself could jump out of a portal keep the adventures going in perpetuity rather than just letting his story end on a high note.
Multiverse stories exist because hacky writers (or good writers going through a hacky phase) cannot come up with genuinely new characters. Genuinely new, in the case of superheroes, would be: 1. A new set of powers. 2. Those powers being different enough to justify a new moniker/name. 3. A new costume. They can't do any of this so they take a preexisting character and write their glorified fanfiction.
The multiverse can be used to make great stories. It can also be used as a justification to write a terrible story. The multiverse doesn't seem to me to be inherently bad... It just needs to be used properly and with great care.
@@laststand6420 If a story has the multiverse concept baked into it then it might be ok. In the case of superheroes, it's always been awful imo. To me, the core appeal of a superhero is that they are beings that can do things noone else can. To have a multiverse full of different versions of the same hero takes away from that appeal.
I don't really like marvel or DC the concepts seem a little far fetched like an alien which looks exactly like humans get sent to a planet where all their virtues match up, and Thor is a literal god what does he need iron man and why has the government not asked for a blood sample from any of the mutants to replicate it as a mass produced product, I don't like superheroes in general to be honest but I really like the idea of multiverse stories feel like no story has really done the concept justice yet.
I would say that for any who were watching closely, the fact that human beings have no value to these people was revealed in all it's destructive glory by the sudden and very fanatical adoption of Charles Darwin's *The Origin of Species* and the theory of evolution in which they made said theory their religion.
The reason i think Multiverse stories suck is because you cannot follow a coherent timeline of events, everything become so inflated and overblown out of proportions that you literally CANNOT have a simple story, everything is multiversal everything is going to destroy ALL of reality. These days you just cant have a robber mugging a grandma unless that purse has the Watch of multiversal destruction that will erase all realities that ever existed. It also basically devalues the original concept of hero, what were heroes originally? A way for people to see a figure of virtue punishing the evildoers, but NOW instead these heroes are fighting against Joker from the fifth dimension who is gonna make Oxigen into Uranium if you don't find his plushie scaterred across all of the multiverses.
What I like about anime is that it will start with a simple plotline like stopping a robber, and it evolves over time. It doesn't start with a villain that can destroy all of reality, and in most cases never gets there, but it always leaves room for the main character, and the villains he faces, to continue to get stronger
I used to have no problems with multiverse stories until recently because another big problem is what they are used for now. With Marvel and DC using their characters to represent instead of tell good stories that is all the multiverse becomes. A cheap way to make gender and race swaps to give everyone a character that looks like them.
I like the way the Justice League show handled it. They didn't do a Crisis, but instead just defeated corrupted versions of themselves. It didn't set up any universe collapsing story, it did however lead people to fear the Justice League and what they could become. Set it up almost like it was a time loop that was bound to happen.
My guess is they are lazy. It takes effort to remain true to the past continuity of an IP. Work that can be skipped if a writer/company uses the "Multiverse". They can pick and choose what to keep, and swap in things that are politically sound for the day. Things that haven't been proven to work for a character.
The error here is imagining there is a "true" past continuity. There isn't hasn't ever been. The Silver Age is infamous for having completely random stories and heroes with wildly fluctuating power levels and abilities, but it has been true in every era of comics. Writers and authors have never been capable of tracking events over decades of stories. Only with the advent of internet search engines and massive global spanning databases have we been able to look things up that happened in comics 50 years ago. Even then you have to somehow know what you don't know in order to look it up. Give up the illusion of canon. You'll be happier and enjoy comics more.
@@PierzStyx Yes in the past there were plenty of disconnected stories featuring the same characters. No, this is not a 'multiverse'. It's just different writers giving their own vision of the character/story. A multiverse is an explicitly declared fantasy plot device. To give you an example, you have many different James Bonds but there is no 'Bondverse'. The Pierce Brosnan Bond is not in the same continuity as the Daniel Craig one, or the Sean Connery one. They are not in a multiverse because (hopefully) they'll never meet.
@Arik Ahmed I always felt that Bond was a title more than one single person. They will never go with one Bond going insane and trying to kill off his predecessors and successors. . . Actually that would make a great comic, though not in Bond.
More than changing things to meet fashion, it enables lazy and bad writers to invoke and rely on previous continuity while simultaneously violating it. More often than not it just ends up in nonsensical plots full of logical paradoxes if you think about it for more than 30 seconds.
it will be a short fad, people will get sick of seeing characters be re-written all the time, i mean... when it happens multiple times in a movie, or in every movie, it gets old... it's like... if you only ate beans, nothing but beans, for years.... you would probably kill someone to eat anything else.
Multiverse stories are also bad because you cannot have stable canon that way. If there is an infinite iteration of every universe and you have the universes interacting which universe is canon? And you also have cross universe timeline corruption, dimensional paradoxes, and in some cases temporal paradoxes. And the writer(s) have to keep all of that nonsense straight. It leads to a giant mess story wise.
Thank you, RJ! Appreciated you mapping out your interpretation of our dislike of multiverse stories being that you're an expert I actually trust! I heard you mention being an expert of map interpretation in your most recent stream. Cool! Prayed for you today. God bless you and yours.
Annoys how people hate on Multiverse of Madness for its bad multiverse writing but give a free pass to No Way Home and the Spider-Verse movies. These movies are bad. Their stories are bad. Multiverse are a pain. Once from time to time they can work for a specific event but you cannot make multiple movies and involve the concept. Too many holes and honesty very uninteresting stories.
What I love a about the multiverse concept is the idea that I could find a parallel or “tangent” (Back to the Future pt. 2 reference) where I belong or make one (colonizing a Class M Earth that is empty of autochronous intelligent life).
Multiverse today is just a way for cheap writers create their "diverse" fanfictions of tradicional characters without any respect for the source material, then say "is not the original character", but make him cheaper and cheaper with each new version! Miles morales is been inserted on peter's place though games and now the cartoons, then they silently kill peter!
Whew! Tried to keep up with you, RJ. But I had to stop and replay segments here and there. Yes, ultimately life has no worth or meaning to them - or rather, no other life has. Supreme selfishness made manifest. Uplifting, worthwhile, and educational, as always. Eagerly waiting for future creative projects.
6:30 A good way to achieve this is Doctor Who. Yes, the planet XY struggles are not as important as the Dalek advance, but when the Who Crew arrive on XY their fate is important for the people of that place and in that moment it is what matters to them
I felt the exhaustion I had with Western comics with you listing all the things they did wit the characters. The rebooting, retcons and resurrections were so fatiguing. Even indie comics took on some of those habits, so finding manga then was amazing since it followed a set story to the end. And it's weird because no one writes books like they do comics (and if they do, they suck).
This is why it's so frustrating hearing people shower brainless praise--people like Critical Drinker who should know better--on movies like "Everything, Everywhere, All At Once" and "Enter the Spiderverse". I guess this just helps prove that no one, not even those who can see the programming for what it is, are immune to propaganda. Take note all you Disney+ and Netflix subscribers. Take note all you right-wing movie critics who "have to watch it" because it's "your job" and "so others don't have to". Take note all you ex-Marvel and ex-Star Wars fans who still "have to see it" if just to see "how bad it really is". If you keep exposing yourselves to this rubbish, the propaganda will eventually win.
The multiverse exists to justify reboots, retcons, recasts, lack of continuity, all things that confuse the casual viewer. This is why I gave up watching modern western media.
The problem with comic book multiverses isn't that they exist therefore bad hurr durr. Multiple dimension stories are supposed to serve as a chance to have a normal character to experience a place with different versions of reality, for better and for worse. It was never meant to provide consistent copies of characters to create a revolving door. It's a plot device the same as when they resurrected Superman and Jason Todd, and that wasn't progressive ideology. That was that US comics are soap operas and I have no faith in them or any writers involved in them any longer.
With the Spiderverse movies, they could've easily used to the first one to set up Miles Morales and have him learn what it means to be Spider-man. Than in the sequel it's all about him being the Spiderman of his own universe. Fighting new and old villains, having drama in his normal life. But instead he's saving the multiverse again. It's like they don't trust him to carry his own movie and have to shove in a bunch of different Spidermen.
I'm going to be completely honest: I always thought of (most) multiverse stories to be convoluted, although I couldn't explain why. After watching this video, I finally understand: thanks for the clarification RJ, and have a Triumphant week. God Bless 😇✝️
Your point about Everything, Everywhere, All At Once reminds me how i have heard about "optimistic nihilism" or how the idea that nothing matters somehow liberate us to make thins matter in our lives on our own way. And how even if that works for some individuals i can't accept nihilism even under those conditions, and i suspect most people can't either considering how it tends to kill the drive of society.
Great video and great points, FA! I also hate modern comics because they cram 10 to 50 super heroes in 1 issue, meaning there is NO DEPTH on the characters with so many. It also becomes very artificial and boring. It is all done in the name of "name dropping" where the writer THINKS he is making the story more "cool" by bringing in so many characters when what is really happening, is the story is being melted into nothingness.
I think the issue that is being talked about in the video is not multiverse stories being bad... but more of a constant *ratcheting time-bomb* plot line with a terrible bang at the end. the idea of too big to fail turns into too big to support. it seems to also be a general issue talked about on the channel as well last I checked, here are some others I have noted: 1. the constant childish behavior of role-models/protagonists 2. the ratcheting up of drama for constant dopamine hits... and a bad crash afterward. 3. the stating your environment declares your purpose, not your actions and beliefs, or even the truth itself. 4. the illogical nature of plots that give confusion from page to page or comic to comic [not because it requires thinking to comprehend, but because of the endless dialogue to shift through to get through one thought] 5. a belief of no truth existing so they define it themselves ending up as info-dumps 6. lack of change in story and thus no point in story to begin with and throw it into the trash 7. endless bullying of audience with effectively ad hominem (character) attacks because they try to be good, but fail at one thing {"they found you amusing for a while, the people of this city. but the one thing they love more than a hero is to see the hero fail, fall, die trying. in spite of everything you've done for them, eventually, they will grow to hate you." -green goblin[william dafoe] spider-man(2002)} Hope you have a great day & Safe Travels!
No multiverse is just bad because it ultimately leads to what we have now if left to grow. If you use it to make new original characters then thats not really a multiverse more so just a different story with different ideas. The good the bad and the ugly isn't a multiverse separate universe from terminator or alien movies...they are just different stories. The very fact of invoking multiverse means you have to show things that are present in both universes that represent the same thing or person but aren't that thing which is chaos....
Did you ever watch the multiverse story "Crisis on Two Earths"? Owl Man in it makes the salient point when he discovers the multiverse and another villain brags about how it'll make them rich and powerful. He just shrugs and says "what does it matter?" In one universe they're rich... another poor. It makes everything so meaningless.
This is why, even as a kid, I hated Alien Resurrection. That wasn't Ripley. It was a disgusting clone of her. I could no longer relate to her character, nor did I care to.
If I have no free will, why am I freely rejecting all the garbage comics, movies and entertainment they are making? To quote a line from the anime and books of Legend of the Galactic Heroes, "If this were a third rate story, a dead protagonist can be brought back at the director's whim." All they are making are 3rd rate stories. I have free will and can not be replaced, I don't have a soul. I am a soul because I am alive and I have free will. BTW, yes they actually do use that line in Legend of the Galactic Heroes
@matane2465 Not everything is political, and I dislike most multiverse stories anyway. The only ones I have liked so far are these beautifully animated, tightly written movies, and the original Crisis on Infinite Earths. Most multiverse stories ignore and maybe even hate coherent canon; these two examples treat Canon with extreme respect.
how multiverse was supposed to be used: - here's a version where this hero DIDN'T die - this superman is evil - this superman turns evil but tries not to and dies for the planet - in this universe everyone is a cross between dragons and dogs but they are human enough how multiverse is used: - it's not it's just cramming as many lame characters as possible into main timeline that doesn't make a speck of sense anymore
Once you start using multiverse logic, everything breaks down. If there's a copy for everyone, then there must be multiple copies of the Big Bad that's destroying multiple multiverses and so on and so forth.
I have the same problem with Multiverse as I do with Prequels. The very nature of the setting eliminates all stakes. You already know who wins and who doesn’t, who lives and who doesn’t. And since it is so utterly predictable, because the end is already set, they usually have to rely on spectacle, which is impressive the first time around but doesn’t tend to age well.
This is why I don't like most stories where the stakes are literally world ending. With very rare exceptions, no writer is actually going to end the world in the climax of a story... So the stakes are essentially gone.
The thing is, is that reality is already being destroyed every couple of zeptoseconds because there are infinite beings. So infinite beings to reverse existence, infinite beings to instantly destroy existence, infinite being to rewrite existence; It is a never ending cycle of stronger beings and unfair laws (like time but on a multiversal scale) so the "hero" character could never possibly measure up to any of that, And since "saving" the multiverse is impossible they can only really play around in other universes till they die, become a slave, or get tortured or get some new technology but when they die they die and the story ends and they aren't the chosen one or anything just some random who can travel between universes.
Multiverse stories used to be cool. Until the mainstream milked them to death to try to cover their lack of talent. like they do with almost everything else.
I have not watched the video yet but I think one of the best uses of a multiverse story was Through the Gate of the Silver Key by H.P Lovecraft. It was prototypical and archetypal example of multiverse theory coalescing to one ultimate god, known merely from the avatarial title "YOG SOTHOTH". Multiverse theory was used well in the first series of crises in DC Comics, ending with Final Crisis in 2008-2009. Afterwards it grows tired. Before New 52 multiversal crises were rare - Crisis on Infinite Earths, Zero Hour, Infinite Crisis, and Final Crises were the only truly multiversal disasters between 1986 and 2011. Afterwards Flashpoint it grew tired. There were occasional universal threats in DC Comics from 1986-2011 (Imperiex comes to mind), but crises were a rare special deal that transcended to multiversal levels. Final Crisis should have been the last one. Darkseid as a multiversal concept was destroyed and the very concept of narrative degeneration through Mandrakk was defeated by a happy ending.
It's been said not focusing on the tool, what we'll call time-travel or multidimensions is key, and you fail when you make that the focus because you hit a wall trying to explain it. it's used to advance the story, add mystery and existential dread. So much fiction now tries to explain everything to the point pseudo-science has to be taken seriously. Cryptozoology is the modern disenchantment of fables, folklore and supernatural.
Final Fantasy XI had an expansion called Wings of the Goddess. The storyline at first seems to be about time traveling into the past to take part in The Crystal War. About 2/3rds of the way through, it's revealed that you time traveled, but you time traveled onto the, "Prime" version of the world you're in. Unwittingly, you are from a future that the Goddess Altana willed into existence, because the prime timeline actually resulted in the Allied Forces defeat, and so in the prime timeline, the Allied Forces swore themselves to dark forces in order to overcome The Beastmen, and wage war still, fighting just to survive. Well, the conflict of the expansion comes in when the NPCs you know from your present, but from the Prime Timeline's dark present, also come back in time along the prime timeline, and start to undo your efforts in the war. They do this to shield their existence, and they view the player character and his/her associates as emissaries of an absentee Goddess trying to wipe them out. And you win in the end, killing all of the prime timeline's characters, including the you of their world. And then out of pity, your companion for the expansion travels their world to try to keep it in existence. Probably my favorite take on multiverse anything, and it's from 2007.
Final Fantasy or Square/Square-Enix has done a bad job many times when it comes to time travel or multi-dimensions. I'm not familiar with that story, but I've no doubt there are plot holes just from my brain picking up on certain things.
@@SirVyre That would quality it as bad in that genre like the rest, just without politics. They focus on the time travel dynamic too much and not an interesting enough premise beyond someone coming from the future or past. Or maybe they try and make it needlessly complex and thus the plot issues. It's been a pattern in every attempt.
I'm amazed at remembering so little of it, considering I played FF11 for so long and I believe through Wings of the Goddess. Pretty sure I played through the story, but can't swear on it. Actually can't remember at the exact point I quit. Must have been sometime after FF14 was remade and my guild moved over to that game. Ironically my guild took a trip back to FF11 after some years and played those renewing expansions for FF11, but I just took one login and looked at the game and said "NOPE". The game was just too poorly designed, with how I had to use 3rd party apps just to equip my summoner gear for 0.5 seconds at the right moment to use the bonus, and then replace it with something that is useful for the rest of the time. So I had like 40 armor pieces all situational to be useful 0.1% of my playtime. It was just sad that my favorite class summoner in all single player games, were done so poorly in both 11 and 14. It shouldn't have been rocket science to make something like FF10, where you just threw out your fighting pet and controlled that while you sort of phased out of the battle.
Interesting to see this tackled from another angle, but kinda rambly in the middle so the overall point didn't land as well as it maybe could of. As a Manga reader I'd not realised just how bad comics had got with replacing characters. They've always had a tendancy to kill them off and resurect them, but that was always the same actual character, not a clone/multiverse replacement. I feel I also need to point out that Science is not about proving things, it can only disprove things. Science is our best expination about the world based on the available evidence, which does include extrapolating back based on the fact that the way we observe things now follows consitant rules that have never been shown to change. Spirtual elements thus far have no good evidence, but can't be ruled out becuase the scientific method does allow for expliantions to change based on new evidene and better undersanding.
So comic books, graphic novels, super-hero characters and stories that take place in their own specific universe in the present should all have these top ten "set in stone" rules in the writing in order for them to be considered truly "good" ideas: 1. No immortality (immunity to physical aging and immunity to all diseases, drugs, poisons, and toxins). 2. No invulnerability (resistance to all forms of physical injury and regeneration of any damaged or destroyed areas of the cellular structure at an extremely accelerated rate). 3. No dimension travel (creating a dimensional aperture to any other dimension and back). 4. No space travel (creating a spatial aperture to any other space and back). 5. No time travel (creating a temporal aperture to any other time and back). 6. No controlling the space/time continuüm (fast forwarding time, making time move in slow motion, pausing time and rewinding time). 7. No being put into a state of true suspended animation by advanced suspended animation chambers. 8. No aliens. 9. No magic. 10. No omnipotent super-powered beings. If I stick to those rules, my comics and super-heroes should always be much better written than the usual action-adventures, crime dramas, dark, adult fantasies, horrors, and science-fiction stories.
This is the problem Dragonball runs into. Every villain ramps up the threat level until the whole of a multiverse is in trouble then they come up with some new evolution for Goku.
@@TempoLOOKING Why does it matter? All versions have the same plot. Villain appears, Goku gets his ass kicked, Goku trains/heals while his friends keep villain busy, Goku returns stronger than ever, kicks the villain's ass with a little difficulty, then they use the Dragonballs to bring back everyone who died. The only time the plot sort of varies is when Gohan gets the killing blow on Cell. The series peaked at the end of the Frieza saga.
It’s like the current punisher run. Deconstruction of punisher to run him down. But in that they are showing us what they end would be and their views on morality as they hate heroism and good characters that’s why all their current versions are degenerate evil no morals or morality.
2:50 that is a retconn... that isn't specifically a multiverse-story as a trope problem. also an interesting twist would be that the clones get found out with their replacing... and everyone thinks they killed the originals. tension is created. 4:45 honestly with this bit... make it have reasonable changes to their psyche.... make it just enough to show it isn't them, just little hints here or there.. different humor, different boundaries, different ideals sometimes. Hope you have a great day & Safe travels!
multiverses are retconns... the primary reason to do multiverses is to say... "this is a new universe, therefor, this thing from the previous movie or scene didn't happen" in other words retconning.
@@AKATenn the difference is in the application. whether it is a scene, or like you stated, a cop out and a way to remove previous points easily. multiverses can still have meaningful consequences... heck more than with just one world [if multiverses are retconns what is the difference between that and sending the hero to another nation or town?]. though I think it would work especially for psychological horror if the protagonist doesn't realize and has no clue why he is "forgetting" key details. Hope you have a great day & Safe Travels!
@@TheSensationalMr.Science sending someone to a new town doesn't reset the world that person was in, and consequences of peoples actions follow them, unless the movie takes place in like... the 1800s... and even then, they still can. it's not that multiverse movies are bad, if it's just for like 1 or 2 movies, but, it's the same with time travel... the ability to just wipe out anything you don't like for any reason, and say it was in a different timeline, or universe, or it was all a dream, or it was in a spirit realm, or in a videogame, whatever is cheap and gets boring and cliche after it happens every time a new director comes in, or every time a writer can't think of a way to continue a story. at that point, don't do multiverse, make a new story with new characters.
@@AKATenn fair, though large distances seems more of a skill issue with certain writers than a scene issue to me. Hope you have a great day & Safe Travels!
@@TheSensationalMr.Science well a scene is like a miniature movie within a movie, you could have multiple universes in a single movie, where each universe is its own self contained story, and one or more of them is only a few scenes long...
The whole concept of a character being a copy of their deceased source material who can no longer be considered the original was played for drama and horror in Neon Genesis Evangelion. Maybe Marvel should copy that from an anime?
Anyone who doesn't believe history repeats itself or goes in cycles should read a history of China. After about the fourth or fifth dynasty rose and fell, I got bored and gave up.
There was an episode of the 90's THE OUTER LIMITS television series that explored the moral implications of the Transporter example RJ talks about here, I believe it was called "Think Like a Dinosaur." What I remember is that Earth was becoming uninhabitable to the point of human extinction but humanity had made contact with a species of hyper-intelligent talking velociraptors who allow them to use their transporter technology to send colonists & scientists to other worlds for the resources they need to maintain human civilization. What happens when there is an error? When you failed to "balance the equation" by erasing the person HERE but cannot be sure the teleported data was not received THERE to create the copy of that person? The show had some very interesting episodes & this was one of them. Mainly I remember it because Scott MacNeil was the voice of the raptor & he was also the voice of Dinobot in BEAST WARS who turned into a velociraptor, so seeing this semi-crossover as a kid was a really cool experience.
The main idea of meta modernism has already been tried and failed. Japan has been spouting that "we'll generate our own meaning" for years now and well look how its turning out for them, and thats best case scenario
First person I've seen talking about multiverses, I hate multiverses, too convoluted and no focus to detail, story or character, that's why I dropped comics for manga. Self contained stories are the best comics that are still the best selling graphic novels to this day. I'm just waiting for superheroes to become public domain at this point, marvel and DC are lost and they'll never get back on track. Never worship the industry like these fools still with them and towing the line. Worship the medium of art and story
My opinion on mutiversus is by making things bigger, you ironically lower the stakes. A time line just blew up? No matter, we'll just continue on a different one. Plus it can get things a little confusing. SPOILERS FOR THE NEW SPIDERMAN. . . . For example. Miles Morales is stated to be an anomaly, he wasn't supposed to become Spiderman. So why is it his father is supposed to die in a canon event if Miles himself breaks cannon? Maybe they'll explain it in part 2 but for now, multiple universus and time lines is just too much, Marvel really stagnated it for me
The multiverse has turned into the wet dream of these woke writers as it gives them free license to have as much diversity and representation as they want. And stupid people will gobble it up.
Reminds me of Batman vs Owlman Owlman after discovering the multiverse determining that nothing matters, that the only dicision that could have meaning is Ending EVERYTHING, Multiverse and all (And as Villains do, tries to convince Batman of this Nialistic mentality) Batman admitted he was correct they were similar in they both had stared into the abyss ... But Unlike him , Owlman Blinked...
In the case of Miles it always means he repeats the same I'm Miles but I gotta fight to be in the shadow of the more popular Spiderman story arc over and over and over and over and over and over and over snd over and over. On top of that, Marvel's multiverse is nonessitional, so all those Spiders he meets mean shit in the end. He cant stand alone with out them, thats why theyre there to carry foward the same story arc until eventually he gets a live action debut in MCU phase 10 😂 cuz Hollywood thinks live action is better. Meanwhile DC has a pretty constant hirearchy for its multiverse. Theres the univerises separated by the Bleed thats on the outside between them ans before that is the SpeedForce Wall, being a fictional speed of light engery thats everywhere in every univeirse becsuse its source is outside the multiversee. Then after the Speedforce is the Sphere of Gods is where magic is from and finallt after that is the Source Wall where the most OP crazy shit is. But how all of this gets used sounds meh to read honestly. For the Flash movie none of this means anything. The directors said multiverse and boom all they could think of was lets sell nostalgia as the screenwriter has Bruce technobabble the multiverse concept out. Theres no acutal DC lore here. They are too lazy to use it. End of story. Using multiverse means worldbuilding. The Peripheral on Amazon could never work in Disney or WB bigscreen
Have you read elric of melnibone? I like the approach that michael moorcock used which is that elric is an archetype of a hero, acting as balancing force between order and chaos that will always somehow come to be, there is no multiples of him nor other versions of him but there is always other eternal champions that must act to keep the balance of their world in one way or the other
I can't wait for the Crom the Destroyer comic! I'm going to get an extra for my LCS owner, he's a huge Conan fan! I hated the idea that multiverses exist for every decision made or not. That's such a narcissistic way to view time and a convoluted way to tell yourself no choice matters (your own or anyone else's)
I don't, if they are written well, Like how I write my multi-verse stories. RULE NUMBER ONE: There are no infinities. There must be limits. There must be stakes. RULE NUMBER TWO: Get Your Physics In Order. You must have HARD MAGIC/SCIENCE rules and you must stick to them like glue. RULE NUMBER THREE: Ticking Clock. The Universe is not a good place. Time is running out. Literally. Time is a fungible resource and there is only so much time in existence (because nothing is infinite). Thus if you are having vast multi-dimensional conflict, there has to be a reason they are fighting. This means if you use Time Travel, you can't do it forever, because you are actually burning up time itself and speeding up the end of reality. RULE NUMBER FOUR: Logistics. If you do not have logistics worked out and just hand wave supplies, then your story will fail. This dovetails with why you need hard Magic/Science rules.
Multiverse was fine in the 80's, 90's and most of the 2000's but from 2010 on its been used as a tool of the IP owning corporations of brand dilution essentially in their quest for maximum creative flexibility while seeking minimum audience expectations basically minimum burden of performance they've used and overused multiverse for the sake of divorcing brands from specific characters and from specific versions, interpretations and characteristics of characters in the goal of reducing superheroes to just a costume logo and power set essentially ripping the skeleton out of IP's and letting any stray thought run around with the rest like a skinsuit. I'm not worried about the scale issue I think the superhero genre can course correct in that regard with the MCU it's finite multiverse arc is just the 2nd 3 phase act of the continuity if the films remain profitable enough they'll simply start a third act centered around something else in three or four years.
By the way, I wasn't sure until I listened back through because I was playing a game the first time, but now I am, your audio jumps up about two octaves right around the 26:47 min/sec mark. It then drops back down to the original level at around the 32:40 min/sec mark. It's really noticeable with headphones on 😅(edited to add second timestamp)
7:30 The Star Trek transporter doesn't make a copy of you. While it _does_ deconstruct you into your base particles, it then beams that original matter to your destination, and reconstructs you with the exact same matter you started off with, in the exact same relative position they were in. I still wouldn't use one though. Don't even get me started on Thomas Riker.
I think this is my favorite video you made. So much to absorb. Could you write in the comments you definition of Scientism? I need to fully understand it better. Thanks.
I think GANTZ did it well. You can be revived, but that requires completing missions successfully. So there is a lot at stake in defeating the incredibly strong enemies, as it might allow you to get one of your lost comrades back. They also included the freebie that if you are still alive, but badly hurt at the end of a mission, you got completely healed. Meaning even more reason to win, to help your disabled comrades.
Maybe it is not so complex with the Multiverse. A Multiverse plot as well as the endless cycle of death and ressourection is the result of serial production of stories under the influence of consumerism which is a childish variant of materialism. Consumers want their product, in this case a story about a character that is already there for a long time. Every possible plot has been already played out and the main character has lived, loved, died and ressurected countless times. And every time this cycle of life, dead and ressurrection, the stakes have to rise and so the plot escalates in every round further and further. But, why not let him go and make new stories with new characters? Because the Customer/Consumer wants his product and the producers of these stories don't want loose the Money and they don't know how to leave this endless cycle. Consequently, the authors of these products despised the Customer/Consumer. And the Customer/Consumer hates the latest stupid story these authors made.
I can tell you've never read mythology. Otherwise you would know that what you're talking about is as old as human history. People tell stories and reuse the same elements endlessly across millennia and cultures because those symbols and ideals have meaning to human existence. Comics are but one manifestation of this human need to tell stories in the same ways.
@@PierzStyx People need stories about heros and heroism but not endless about the same hero if they also want a kind of continuity within this story. For example. There surely are 100 and more stories about Hercules life and his heroic action. But only one about his dead. A continuing story needs to have one ending, but not multiple endings and ressurrections. It just becomes all meaningless if no one ever really dies and nothing really ends.
The only, and original to my mind, author who i respect that wrote specifically about 'the Multiverse' was Michael Moorcock. His 'Eternal Champion' stories depend on the Multiverse's existence
@@ShinDangaioh I spent a couple of years collecting many if not most of the Eternal Champion stories and then spent about a year reading them all. Moorcock is still a personal favourite all time author
Ok, interesting thought on the multiverse. I like the multiverse thing, but that might have to do with how I look at it. I made a choice, in different universe, another version of me made a another. It's interesting to find out what happened after I made that "another choice" but that's not me, I made my choice and he made his, we can interchange or swap places in our respective universe only temporarily because we are the same person but not permanently because everyone around us also made different choices than the people we know. There are always ever so slight differences. So it all matters, there is meaning even in the multiverse because down to it, we are not the same person. In fact the whole point of the multiverse is that things matter. So you can't just replace a hero with an alternate universe version. There is more than just the physical body. But let's get thoughts
The biggest problem with free will is that there is no physical mechanism for free will. By saying that, I mean to say there isn't even a hole in scientific knowledge large enough for free will to exist within.
You're right within the scope of your argument. However... (I know how the following sounds at first blush, but grant that I'm right for the sake of this argument.): Souls can't occupy a single body. They're too big, too complex.., especially the older ones. They are spread out among lots of 'containers', each experiencing different aspects of the self. We are hyper-dimensional in nature, we just don't know it because our wetware is struggling along in a very limited fashion. The difference between the nihilist program and the actual Universal creative imperative is that *everything* matters, choices count and each part affects the other. We are emerging into a phase of our time on this planet where souls are going to have to either sink or swim. (Everybody should be able to feel the Wave by now). -Those who aren't sucked under are going to have to undertake the work of gathering all their disparate parts together and learn how to activate hyper-dimensional awareness. A comparison might be that of a tree learning how to think like a mouse. Or a mouse to think like a human. I suspect the reason our creatives are being whammied and inspired to write all these stories about multiverses is in preparation for that task. As with all spiritual matters, a given lesson or situation can suit both the up or down path perfectly. -Multiverse stories can be applied as a tool of oppression for those who hate god and want to escape reality and crawl back into the womb to sleep, or those same stories can be used as a means of activating and encouraging problem solving in a higher sphere of possibilities, to ready people for the next stage of growth, those who are eager for adventure and knowledge, who want to grow closer to god.
This is why I won't support these Spider-Verse films. The problem is right there in the title. The city/the world/the universe being at stake wasn't enough, it had to be infinite universes. It's the same reason 10000 star destroyers in a Star Wars sequel will never resonate. Great video.
The oldest book with that cloning system IMO is with Robert Heinlein. He discreetly put them into his novel. I think "Time enough for love" did the trick. At least, it was after he wrote "The Number of the Beast" where the multiverse idea came in.
multiverse: ! it's easy, all you gotta do is change somehting about an existing superhero. 2 you can make any superhero whatever you want. For example you could have a Wolverine with a sexual attraction to poultry. It's an alternate universe! it's Canon! Chicken-(censored)er Wolverine is a thing!
The only multiverse stuff ive really enjoyed are the bsuper robot wars games (and to a lesser extent getter robo, because its anime adaptations are all different takes of the franchise)
I don't exactly hate multiverse stories, i just hate how overused it is. Transformers has deadass done this 5 times! I'll say it again, FIVE! From Shattered Glass to Cloud to Gobots to Legends and finally Legacy. It's getting repetitive
Someone clearly misunderstood the Spiderverse movies. They're about the only proper execution of the multiverse in the Marvel movies. I don't even know how this got recommended to me when I was just watching hero backstories.
Multiverse tales can be really good and have been. It is when the concept is used to write off laziness it falls apart. I will not watch spider verse 2 because of the role Easter eggs and race swapping. I love that May Day is on the big screen but baby Parker is not enough to win me.
I disagree with you on Everything Everywhere All At Once. I think the point of the movie was that even though there are many alternate versions of you, there isn't one just like you
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4:45 actually I would have to disagree with death being the only way to create tension.. a lot of tension is based on beliefs of the characters as well... sometimes... no heck a lot of the tension is based on who gets what they want from their contradictory view-points... or not. cops vs robbers, friend vs foe, rival vs rival, truth vs falsehood, god vs devil... etc.
also technically with the reader that is the case with 5:20... just not within the stories scope, but within the market's scope.
Hope you have a great day & Safe Travels!
As a Objectivist myself, I would challenge on you about selfishness, as you do have more links to Plato and religious thinkers like Augustine, as I have more inference to Aristotle and Ayn Rand.
As for your video about Multiverse stories, it was interesting and I can agree how writers can use it as a excuse to reboot a character, while disregarding it's original for cheap new.
Bro that is Gnosticism...hm your not dumb like the pie guy. Most comic channels are right idiots. Subing. Not enough on the right talk like this anymore.
Multiverse Stories have been around for a long time they can be told well and have been told well the idea of infinite realities and infinite versions of characters has been done in nearly all franchises with stories and characters. Saying you hate multiverse stories or that there all bad is fundamentally false. Like Time Travel it can work and has worked based on how well it's written. These Spiderverse Movies which are pretty great and fixed Miles Morales characters are perfect examples of that.
Plus, multiverses fall into the category of cosmic horror. Because multiverses are liable to induce insanity in your characters. The idea that you are just one of an endless repetition of who you are with only minor deviations will leave you broken emotionally as well as on a personality level. It is at its base level utterly dehumanizing. Nobody can survive that with their emotional health intact. It destroys all concept of self.
You get something like that Jet Li film "The One" where the guy found out about a multiverse and went in turn insane and then berserk trying to kill every other iteration of himself. Because that was the only way he could not fall completely apart and loose himself.
Because of the above multiverse stories will always seem off, because the reader/viewer knows this would break the characters and thus the characters are unconvincing.
The One was an Underrated Guilty Pleasure movie
That actually sounds like a much better take on multiverses than just to excuse the writer to abandon all rules and stakes!
Reminds me of Owlman from Crisis on Two Earths who tried to destroy the multiverse simply because he found it terrifying, knowing that every choice and possibility will simply create new realities for better or worse.
It makes sense that the multiverse for all it's endless possibilities would cause dread to those that can't comprehend it's existence, knowing there are different versions of you living different lives in other realities and the possibility that you are technically not even the original must be mind-shattering.
it depends, I mean eventually it would break them to a point where they become a potato via some universe which cannot be understood. but at the start they'd be fine unless simply gazing upon it causes insanity, but assuming that it doesn't. the only way to keep them sane is an emotionless guide who knows their stuff, or one of them going emotionless, or someone who is blind and deaf and cannot feel touch and understands their surrounding via some 28th sense which can handle some parts of the multiverse. but this is pretty specific and I have not seen a-lot of stories do these, so they will probably just go insane or die from hopping into a super nova accidently.
That's basically the theme of the movie Coherence. It ends with the group of friends going crazy after they realize that they're trapped inside a multi-dimension. A few of them try to kill all of their clones. The heroine runs away from the madness to eavesdrop on her clones until she found one with her ideal life. She then kills that clone & steals her identity to live the clone's life. The clone's friends & family eventually realize that their version of the heroine was killed by the movie's heroine.
The Multiverse is literature’s own money printer and character variants, its own inflation.
There's a strange fear of (or dismissal of) closure. People these days don't like the idea of death or closure in stories. I believe that's one reason why there are no real stakes. No one wants to deal with grief. But grief is part of our human existence.
Add to that, so many live in perpetual adolescence, avoiding maturity entirely.
@@eddysgaming9868 That's true too, unfortunately.
My thoughts exactly. There's this weird obsession with trying to make something last forever.
The only “people” who fear closure are the IP owners, who want to be able to sell their IP for as long as possible, which permanently killing popular characters gets in the way of.
Remember when Peter got married? Oh wait, she's the new superhero and Spiderman is just a piece of shit. (Here's my edit Google, you're run by thr same kind of see you next Thursday) a c u n t. Good stories have morals, you learn th3n by reading a good story. I'm angry with people thinking race = intelligence.
Because it is the end cycle of caped superhero stories. And now that these characters are being exploited to the bone by their respective movie studios, they have to search the bottom of the barrel for more ideas, and multiverse stories/retcons/revivals are the last ideas that they've got.
They don't have to search the bottom of the barrel.. Since Kevin Feige seized complete control of Marvel in 2016 and dissolved the writers group (which included people like Jeph Loeb etc) there is no one in the company who respects comics, and thus they aren't mining the hundreds or thousands of classic Marvel comic book stories and are doing this multiverse garbage instead.
HOw is the end cycle of caped superhero stories?
@@alfredosaint-jean9660 Because that's the last thing comic superhero stories do before a big retcon starts things over.
@@HolyknightVader999 I can name retcons without a multiverse story and multiverse stories without retcons.
@@alfredosaint-jean9660 DC and Marvel do otherwise. Especially in the 90s and early 2000s before the SJWs came in.
When Marvel first started doing "What If" stories, they were used to highlight how even small changes in choices or circumstance could lead to massive changes, in short, they were using the multiverse to highlight the reality and importance of free will
And when DC first used their Multiverse, it wasn't made up of alternate reality counterparts, but rather vastly different realities that operated in vastly different ways
It wasn't until much later that they adopted more of a Postmodernist Rick and Morty-style take on the Multiverse, so if you take that into consideration, the idea of a Multiverse isn't the problem, but how it's been utilized
Naja Meister. So einfach ist es nicht.
The system theory like that of Niklas Luhmann proposes a recursive functionality. So any proposition inserted to the the system goes down the recursive tree to the end or until a solution is found. Therefore:
any proposition of the multiverse, no minor it seems at the beginning, will lead to this point.
@@bathyalgames Then perhaps a simple change of perspective; If every possibility created by every possible action exists, then every choice matters because they all have an effect, and even if the differences start out small, as time goes on and different choices continue been made, the end result would be vastly different outcomes
Futurama once did an episode showcasing this with Universe 1 & Universe A, where the result of things like coin flips were different, and the impacts of such results were highlighted
It's not even that. It's an excuse to have as much diversity and representation as they want.
@@matane2465 that would be fine if the writing was better thought the spiderverse is pretty good
Remember what the bad Guys clone said to the villain in the Schwarzenegger film "the sixth day"
Dying bad guy: "aren't you going to wait for me to die?"
Clone who is stealing clothes off him: "would you?"
Spot on. Multiverses are the death of story because it becomes a back door for the worst narrative loopholes imaginable. Singling out death in particular was a good call not only because it undercuts all tension, but also because it robs characters of any true narrative conclusion. Even if a superhero retires peacefully, a new version of himself could jump out of a portal keep the adventures going in perpetuity rather than just letting his story end on a high note.
Multiverse stories exist because hacky writers (or good writers going through a hacky phase) cannot come up with genuinely new characters. Genuinely new, in the case of superheroes, would be:
1. A new set of powers.
2. Those powers being different enough to justify a new moniker/name.
3. A new costume.
They can't do any of this so they take a preexisting character and write their glorified fanfiction.
The multiverse can be used to make great stories. It can also be used as a justification to write a terrible story.
The multiverse doesn't seem to me to be inherently bad... It just needs to be used properly and with great care.
@@laststand6420 If a story has the multiverse concept baked into it then it might be ok.
In the case of superheroes, it's always been awful imo. To me, the core appeal of a superhero is that they are beings that can do things noone else can. To have a multiverse full of different versions of the same hero takes away from that appeal.
I don't really like marvel or DC the concepts seem a little far fetched like an alien which looks exactly like humans get sent to a planet where all their virtues match up, and Thor is a literal god what does he need iron man and why has the government not asked for a blood sample from any of the mutants to replicate it as a mass produced product, I don't like superheroes in general to be honest but I really like the idea of multiverse stories feel like no story has really done the concept justice yet.
I would say that for any who were watching closely, the fact that human beings have no value to these people was revealed in all it's destructive glory by the sudden and very fanatical adoption of Charles Darwin's *The Origin of Species* and the theory of evolution in which they made said theory their religion.
The reason i think Multiverse stories suck is because you cannot follow a coherent timeline of events, everything become so inflated and overblown out of proportions that you literally CANNOT have a simple story, everything is multiversal everything is going to destroy ALL of reality.
These days you just cant have a robber mugging a grandma unless that purse has the Watch of multiversal destruction that will erase all realities that ever existed.
It also basically devalues the original concept of hero, what were heroes originally? A way for people to see a figure of virtue punishing the evildoers, but NOW instead these heroes are fighting against Joker from the fifth dimension who is gonna make Oxigen into Uranium if you don't find his plushie scaterred across all of the multiverses.
What I like about anime is that it will start with a simple plotline like stopping a robber, and it evolves over time. It doesn't start with a villain that can destroy all of reality, and in most cases never gets there, but it always leaves room for the main character, and the villains he faces, to continue to get stronger
I used to have no problems with multiverse stories until recently because another big problem is what they are used for now. With Marvel and DC using their characters to represent instead of tell good stories that is all the multiverse becomes. A cheap way to make gender and race swaps to give everyone a character that looks like them.
@@gokux75 100 % -- that's all this current "multiversal" crap is about.
I want to do a multiversal story one day that addresses all of this.
@@jonnjones8263 didn't "Everything Everywhere all at Once" do that
This went way deeper than I imagined when I clicked this video. Well done Mr. Fourth Age!
I like the way the Justice League show handled it. They didn't do a Crisis, but instead just defeated corrupted versions of themselves. It didn't set up any universe collapsing story, it did however lead people to fear the Justice League and what they could become. Set it up almost like it was a time loop that was bound to happen.
My guess is they are lazy. It takes effort to remain true to the past continuity of an IP. Work that can be skipped if a writer/company uses the "Multiverse". They can pick and choose what to keep, and swap in things that are politically sound for the day. Things that haven't been proven to work for a character.
The error here is imagining there is a "true" past continuity. There isn't hasn't ever been. The Silver Age is infamous for having completely random stories and heroes with wildly fluctuating power levels and abilities, but it has been true in every era of comics. Writers and authors have never been capable of tracking events over decades of stories. Only with the advent of internet search engines and massive global spanning databases have we been able to look things up that happened in comics 50 years ago. Even then you have to somehow know what you don't know in order to look it up.
Give up the illusion of canon. You'll be happier and enjoy comics more.
@@PierzStyx Yes in the past there were plenty of disconnected stories featuring the same characters. No, this is not a 'multiverse'. It's just different writers giving their own vision of the character/story. A multiverse is an explicitly declared fantasy plot device.
To give you an example, you have many different James Bonds but there is no 'Bondverse'. The Pierce Brosnan Bond is not in the same continuity as the Daniel Craig one, or the Sean Connery one. They are not in a multiverse because (hopefully) they'll never meet.
@Arik Ahmed I always felt that Bond was a title more than one single person. They will never go with one Bond going insane and trying to kill off his predecessors and successors.
.
.
Actually that would make a great comic, though not in Bond.
More than changing things to meet fashion, it enables lazy and bad writers to invoke and rely on previous continuity while simultaneously violating it. More often than not it just ends up in nonsensical plots full of logical paradoxes if you think about it for more than 30 seconds.
Meh I would prefer good 1980s ad films over comic book crammed in crud
it will be a short fad, people will get sick of seeing characters be re-written all the time, i mean... when it happens multiple times in a movie, or in every movie, it gets old... it's like... if you only ate beans, nothing but beans, for years.... you would probably kill someone to eat anything else.
Another great deep philosophical teaching disguised as comic book storytelling! TY.
Multiverse stories are also bad because you cannot have stable canon that way. If there is an infinite iteration of every universe and you have the universes interacting which universe is canon? And you also have cross universe timeline corruption, dimensional paradoxes, and in some cases temporal paradoxes. And the writer(s) have to keep all of that nonsense straight. It leads to a giant mess story wise.
Thank you, RJ! Appreciated you mapping out your interpretation of our dislike of multiverse stories being that you're an expert I actually trust! I heard you mention being an expert of map interpretation in your most recent stream. Cool!
Prayed for you today. God bless you and yours.
Much appreciated!
Annoys how people hate on Multiverse of Madness for its bad multiverse writing but give a free pass to No Way Home and the Spider-Verse movies. These movies are bad. Their stories are bad. Multiverse are a pain. Once from time to time they can work for a specific event but you cannot make multiple movies and involve the concept. Too many holes and honesty very uninteresting stories.
What I love a about the multiverse concept is the idea that I could find a parallel or “tangent” (Back to the Future pt. 2 reference) where I belong or make one (colonizing a Class M Earth that is empty of autochronous intelligent life).
Multiverse today is just a way for cheap writers create their "diverse" fanfictions of tradicional characters without any respect for the source material, then say "is not the original character", but make him cheaper and cheaper with each new version! Miles morales is been inserted on peter's place though games and now the cartoons, then they silently kill peter!
Whew! Tried to keep up with you, RJ. But I had to stop and replay segments here and there.
Yes, ultimately life has no worth or meaning to them - or rather, no other life has. Supreme selfishness made manifest.
Uplifting, worthwhile, and educational, as always.
Eagerly waiting for future creative projects.
6:30 A good way to achieve this is Doctor Who.
Yes, the planet XY struggles are not as important as the Dalek advance, but when the Who Crew arrive on XY their fate is important for the people of that place and in that moment it is what matters to them
I felt the exhaustion I had with Western comics with you listing all the things they did wit the characters. The rebooting, retcons and resurrections were so fatiguing. Even indie comics took on some of those habits, so finding manga then was amazing since it followed a set story to the end. And it's weird because no one writes books like they do comics (and if they do, they suck).
Hatred is the Emperor´s greatest gift to humanity.
This is why it's so frustrating hearing people shower brainless praise--people like Critical Drinker who should know better--on movies like "Everything, Everywhere, All At Once" and "Enter the Spiderverse". I guess this just helps prove that no one, not even those who can see the programming for what it is, are immune to propaganda.
Take note all you Disney+ and Netflix subscribers. Take note all you right-wing movie critics who "have to watch it" because it's "your job" and "so others don't have to". Take note all you ex-Marvel and ex-Star Wars fans who still "have to see it" if just to see "how bad it really is". If you keep exposing yourselves to this rubbish, the propaganda will eventually win.
Love the covers btw!
The multiverse exists to justify reboots, retcons, recasts, lack of continuity, all things that confuse the casual viewer. This is why I gave up watching modern western media.
The problem with comic book multiverses isn't that they exist therefore bad hurr durr. Multiple dimension stories are supposed to serve as a chance to have a normal character to experience a place with different versions of reality, for better and for worse. It was never meant to provide consistent copies of characters to create a revolving door. It's a plot device the same as when they resurrected Superman and Jason Todd, and that wasn't progressive ideology. That was that US comics are soap operas and I have no faith in them or any writers involved in them any longer.
With the Spiderverse movies, they could've easily used to the first one to set up Miles Morales and have him learn what it means to be Spider-man. Than in the sequel it's all about him being the Spiderman of his own universe. Fighting new and old villains, having drama in his normal life. But instead he's saving the multiverse again. It's like they don't trust him to carry his own movie and have to shove in a bunch of different Spidermen.
That's because they don't.
I don't hate multiverse stories, and we do have a lot of them being made with malicious intent.
"I Swear! Super Robt Wars V's Multiverse Story is Good! You just have to try it!!!"
-The Other Counterarguement
Thank you so much
I'm going to be completely honest: I always thought of (most) multiverse stories to be convoluted, although I couldn't explain why.
After watching this video, I finally understand: thanks for the clarification RJ, and have a Triumphant week.
God Bless 😇✝️
Your point about Everything, Everywhere, All At Once reminds me how i have heard about "optimistic nihilism" or how the idea that nothing matters somehow liberate us to make thins matter in our lives on our own way. And how even if that works for some individuals i can't accept nihilism even under those conditions, and i suspect most people can't either considering how it tends to kill the drive of society.
Great video and great points, FA! I also hate modern comics because they cram 10 to 50 super heroes in 1 issue, meaning there is NO DEPTH on the characters with so many. It also becomes very artificial and boring. It is all done in the name of "name dropping" where the writer THINKS he is making the story more "cool" by bringing in so many characters when what is really happening, is the story is being melted into nothingness.
The animated movie, crisis on two earths, makes more sense now.
I think the issue that is being talked about in the video is not multiverse stories being bad... but more of a constant *ratcheting time-bomb* plot line with a terrible bang at the end. the idea of too big to fail turns into too big to support.
it seems to also be a general issue talked about on the channel as well last I checked, here are some others I have noted:
1. the constant childish behavior of role-models/protagonists
2. the ratcheting up of drama for constant dopamine hits... and a bad crash afterward.
3. the stating your environment declares your purpose, not your actions and beliefs, or even the truth itself.
4. the illogical nature of plots that give confusion from page to page or comic to comic
[not because it requires thinking to comprehend, but because of the endless dialogue to shift through to get through one thought]
5. a belief of no truth existing so they define it themselves ending up as info-dumps
6. lack of change in story and thus no point in story to begin with and throw it into the trash
7. endless bullying of audience with effectively ad hominem (character) attacks because they try to be good, but fail at one thing
{"they found you amusing for a while, the people of this city. but the one thing they love more than a hero is to see the hero fail, fall, die trying. in spite of everything you've done for them, eventually, they will grow to hate you." -green goblin[william dafoe] spider-man(2002)}
Hope you have a great day & Safe Travels!
No multiverse is just bad because it ultimately leads to what we have now if left to grow.
If you use it to make new original characters then thats not really a multiverse more so just a different story with different ideas.
The good the bad and the ugly isn't a multiverse separate universe from terminator or alien movies...they are just different stories. The very fact of invoking multiverse means you have to show things that are present in both universes that represent the same thing or person but aren't that thing which is chaos....
Did you ever watch the multiverse story "Crisis on Two Earths"? Owl Man in it makes the salient point when he discovers the multiverse and another villain brags about how it'll make them rich and powerful. He just shrugs and says "what does it matter?" In one universe they're rich... another poor. It makes everything so meaningless.
The movie The Prestige is a perfect example of the negatives of the Star Trek transporter idea to the extreme.
This is why, even as a kid, I hated Alien Resurrection. That wasn't Ripley. It was a disgusting clone of her. I could no longer relate to her character, nor did I care to.
I guess you are not bringing back*spoiler* from the dead in Thomas Valiant universe.
If I have no free will, why am I freely rejecting all the garbage comics, movies and entertainment they are making?
To quote a line from the anime and books of Legend of the Galactic Heroes, "If this were a third rate story, a dead protagonist can be brought back at the director's whim."
All they are making are 3rd rate stories.
I have free will and can not be replaced, I don't have a soul. I am a soul because I am alive and I have free will.
BTW, yes they actually do use that line in Legend of the Galactic Heroes
I dunno, I just left the theatres and loved Spiderverse. There's a way to do it wrong and a way to do it right.
Good job, you're accepting the shift of the Overton window so that it can shift further.
@matane2465 Not everything is political, and I dislike most multiverse stories anyway. The only ones I have liked so far are these beautifully animated, tightly written movies, and the original Crisis on Infinite Earths. Most multiverse stories ignore and maybe even hate coherent canon; these two examples treat Canon with extreme respect.
how multiverse was supposed to be used:
- here's a version where this hero DIDN'T die
- this superman is evil
- this superman turns evil but tries not to and dies for the planet
- in this universe everyone is a cross between dragons and dogs but they are human enough
how multiverse is used:
- it's not it's just cramming as many lame characters as possible into main timeline that doesn't make a speck of sense anymore
Once you start using multiverse logic, everything breaks down. If there's a copy for everyone, then there must be multiple copies of the Big Bad that's destroying multiple multiverses and so on and so forth.
I have the same problem with Multiverse as I do with Prequels. The very nature of the setting eliminates all stakes. You already know who wins and who doesn’t, who lives and who doesn’t. And since it is so utterly predictable, because the end is already set, they usually have to rely on spectacle, which is impressive the first time around but doesn’t tend to age well.
This is why I don't like most stories where the stakes are literally world ending. With very rare exceptions, no writer is actually going to end the world in the climax of a story... So the stakes are essentially gone.
The thing is, is that reality is already being destroyed every couple of zeptoseconds because there are infinite beings. So infinite beings to reverse existence, infinite beings to instantly destroy existence, infinite being to rewrite existence; It is a never ending cycle of stronger beings and unfair laws (like time but on a multiversal scale) so the "hero" character could never possibly measure up to any of that, And since "saving" the multiverse is impossible they can only really play around in other universes till they die, become a slave, or get tortured or get some new technology but when they die they die and the story ends and they aren't the chosen one or anything just some random who can travel between universes.
Multiverse stories used to be cool. Until the mainstream milked them to death to try to cover their lack of talent. like they do with almost everything else.
I have not watched the video yet but I think one of the best uses of a multiverse story was Through the Gate of the Silver Key by H.P Lovecraft. It was prototypical and archetypal example of multiverse theory coalescing to one ultimate god, known merely from the avatarial title "YOG SOTHOTH".
Multiverse theory was used well in the first series of crises in DC Comics, ending with Final Crisis in 2008-2009. Afterwards it grows tired. Before New 52 multiversal crises were rare - Crisis on Infinite Earths, Zero Hour, Infinite Crisis, and Final Crises were the only truly multiversal disasters between 1986 and 2011. Afterwards Flashpoint it grew tired. There were occasional universal threats in DC Comics from 1986-2011 (Imperiex comes to mind), but crises were a rare special deal that transcended to multiversal levels. Final Crisis should have been the last one. Darkseid as a multiversal concept was destroyed and the very concept of narrative degeneration through Mandrakk was defeated by a happy ending.
Agree.
There is a common mistake of blaming the tool rather than the user.
It's been said not focusing on the tool, what we'll call time-travel or multidimensions is key, and you fail when you make that the focus because you hit a wall trying to explain it. it's used to advance the story, add mystery and existential dread. So much fiction now tries to explain everything to the point pseudo-science has to be taken seriously. Cryptozoology is the modern disenchantment of fables, folklore and supernatural.
Final Fantasy XI had an expansion called Wings of the Goddess. The storyline at first seems to be about time traveling into the past to take part in The Crystal War. About 2/3rds of the way through, it's revealed that you time traveled, but you time traveled onto the, "Prime" version of the world you're in. Unwittingly, you are from a future that the Goddess Altana willed into existence, because the prime timeline actually resulted in the Allied Forces defeat, and so in the prime timeline, the Allied Forces swore themselves to dark forces in order to overcome The Beastmen, and wage war still, fighting just to survive.
Well, the conflict of the expansion comes in when the NPCs you know from your present, but from the Prime Timeline's dark present, also come back in time along the prime timeline, and start to undo your efforts in the war. They do this to shield their existence, and they view the player character and his/her associates as emissaries of an absentee Goddess trying to wipe them out.
And you win in the end, killing all of the prime timeline's characters, including the you of their world. And then out of pity, your companion for the expansion travels their world to try to keep it in existence.
Probably my favorite take on multiverse anything, and it's from 2007.
Final Fantasy or Square/Square-Enix has done a bad job many times when it comes to time travel or multi-dimensions. I'm not familiar with that story, but I've no doubt there are plot holes just from my brain picking up on certain things.
@@blumiu2426 It's plot involving time travel and alternate reality. Of course there's plot holes lmao. For what it was though, it was good.
@@SirVyre That would quality it as bad in that genre like the rest, just without politics. They focus on the time travel dynamic too much and not an interesting enough premise beyond someone coming from the future or past. Or maybe they try and make it needlessly complex and thus the plot issues. It's been a pattern in every attempt.
I'm amazed at remembering so little of it, considering I played FF11 for so long and I believe through Wings of the Goddess. Pretty sure I played through the story, but can't swear on it. Actually can't remember at the exact point I quit. Must have been sometime after FF14 was remade and my guild moved over to that game.
Ironically my guild took a trip back to FF11 after some years and played those renewing expansions for FF11, but I just took one login and looked at the game and said "NOPE". The game was just too poorly designed, with how I had to use 3rd party apps just to equip my summoner gear for 0.5 seconds at the right moment to use the bonus, and then replace it with something that is useful for the rest of the time. So I had like 40 armor pieces all situational to be useful 0.1% of my playtime.
It was just sad that my favorite class summoner in all single player games, were done so poorly in both 11 and 14. It shouldn't have been rocket science to make something like FF10, where you just threw out your fighting pet and controlled that while you sort of phased out of the battle.
Interesting to see this tackled from another angle, but kinda rambly in the middle so the overall point didn't land as well as it maybe could of. As a Manga reader I'd not realised just how bad comics had got with replacing characters. They've always had a tendancy to kill them off and resurect them, but that was always the same actual character, not a clone/multiverse replacement. I feel I also need to point out that Science is not about proving things, it can only disprove things. Science is our best expination about the world based on the available evidence, which does include extrapolating back based on the fact that the way we observe things now follows consitant rules that have never been shown to change. Spirtual elements thus far have no good evidence, but can't be ruled out becuase the scientific method does allow for expliantions to change based on new evidene and better undersanding.
So comic books, graphic novels, super-hero characters and stories that take place in their own specific universe in the present should all have these top ten "set in stone" rules in the writing in order for them to be considered truly "good" ideas:
1. No immortality (immunity to physical aging and immunity to all diseases, drugs, poisons, and toxins).
2. No invulnerability (resistance to all forms of physical injury and regeneration of any damaged or destroyed areas of the cellular structure at an extremely accelerated rate).
3. No dimension travel (creating a dimensional aperture to any other dimension and back).
4. No space travel (creating a spatial aperture to any other space and back).
5. No time travel (creating a temporal aperture to any other time and back).
6. No controlling the space/time continuüm (fast forwarding time, making time move in slow motion, pausing time and rewinding time).
7. No being put into a state of true suspended animation by advanced suspended animation chambers.
8. No aliens.
9. No magic.
10. No omnipotent super-powered beings.
If I stick to those rules, my comics and super-heroes should always be much better written than the usual action-adventures, crime dramas, dark, adult fantasies, horrors, and science-fiction stories.
So I was heaqding for the ranch when for some strange reason I felt the urge to shout "Head em off at the pass." Strange thing.
This is the problem Dragonball runs into. Every villain ramps up the threat level until the whole of a multiverse is in trouble then they come up with some new evolution for Goku.
What dub did you watch?
@@TempoLOOKING Why does it matter? All versions have the same plot. Villain appears, Goku gets his ass kicked, Goku trains/heals while his friends keep villain busy, Goku returns stronger than ever, kicks the villain's ass with a little difficulty, then they use the Dragonballs to bring back everyone who died. The only time the plot sort of varies is when Gohan gets the killing blow on Cell.
The series peaked at the end of the Frieza saga.
I am making conversation.
It’s like the current punisher run.
Deconstruction of punisher to run him down.
But in that they are showing us what they end would be and their views on morality as they hate heroism and good characters that’s why all their current versions are degenerate evil no morals or morality.
The resurrection protocol is the worst addition to comics ever, I absolutely hate it. None of these characters are the same, they’re all dead.
2:50 that is a retconn... that isn't specifically a multiverse-story as a trope problem. also an interesting twist would be that the clones get found out with their replacing... and everyone thinks they killed the originals. tension is created. 4:45 honestly with this bit... make it have reasonable changes to their psyche.... make it just enough to show it isn't them, just little hints here or there.. different humor, different boundaries, different ideals sometimes.
Hope you have a great day & Safe travels!
multiverses are retconns... the primary reason to do multiverses is to say... "this is a new universe, therefor, this thing from the previous movie or scene didn't happen" in other words retconning.
@@AKATenn the difference is in the application. whether it is a scene, or like you stated, a cop out and a way to remove previous points easily.
multiverses can still have meaningful consequences... heck more than with just one world [if multiverses are retconns what is the difference between that and sending the hero to another nation or town?]. though I think it would work especially for psychological horror if the protagonist doesn't realize and has no clue why he is "forgetting" key details.
Hope you have a great day & Safe Travels!
@@TheSensationalMr.Science sending someone to a new town doesn't reset the world that person was in, and consequences of peoples actions follow them, unless the movie takes place in like... the 1800s... and even then, they still can.
it's not that multiverse movies are bad, if it's just for like 1 or 2 movies, but, it's the same with time travel... the ability to just wipe out anything you don't like for any reason, and say it was in a different timeline, or universe, or it was all a dream, or it was in a spirit realm, or in a videogame, whatever is cheap and gets boring and cliche after it happens every time a new director comes in, or every time a writer can't think of a way to continue a story.
at that point, don't do multiverse, make a new story with new characters.
@@AKATenn fair, though large distances seems more of a skill issue with certain writers than a scene issue to me.
Hope you have a great day & Safe Travels!
@@TheSensationalMr.Science well a scene is like a miniature movie within a movie, you could have multiple universes in a single movie, where each universe is its own self contained story, and one or more of them is only a few scenes long...
The whole concept of a character being a copy of their deceased source material who can no longer be considered the original was played for drama and horror in Neon Genesis Evangelion. Maybe Marvel should copy that from an anime?
I like multiverse stories when they’re done right.
Read, if you haven't, Michael Moorcock's 'Eternal Champion' stories.
Aww, but I really like Everything Everywhere All at Once.
Anyone who doesn't believe history repeats itself or goes in cycles should read a history of China. After about the fourth or fifth dynasty rose and fell, I got bored and gave up.
Okay, metamodernism sounds freaky.
There was an episode of the 90's THE OUTER LIMITS television series that explored the moral implications of the Transporter example RJ talks about here, I believe it was called "Think Like a Dinosaur."
What I remember is that Earth was becoming uninhabitable to the point of human extinction but humanity had made contact with a species of hyper-intelligent talking velociraptors who allow them to use their transporter technology to send colonists & scientists to other worlds for the resources they need to maintain human civilization.
What happens when there is an error? When you failed to "balance the equation" by erasing the person HERE but cannot be sure the teleported data was not received THERE to create the copy of that person?
The show had some very interesting episodes & this was one of them.
Mainly I remember it because Scott MacNeil was the voice of the raptor & he was also the voice of Dinobot in BEAST WARS who turned into a velociraptor, so seeing this semi-crossover as a kid was a really cool experience.
The main idea of meta modernism has already been tried and failed. Japan has been spouting that "we'll generate our own meaning" for years now and well look how its turning out for them, and thats best case scenario
First person I've seen talking about multiverses, I hate multiverses, too convoluted and no focus to detail, story or character, that's why I dropped comics for manga. Self contained stories are the best comics that are still the best selling graphic novels to this day. I'm just waiting for superheroes to become public domain at this point, marvel and DC are lost and they'll never get back on track. Never worship the industry like these fools still with them and towing the line. Worship the medium of art and story
Youngrippa59 doesn't like multi-verses either. He has expressed that in quite a few videos.
My opinion on mutiversus is by making things bigger, you ironically lower the stakes. A time line just blew up? No matter, we'll just continue on a different one. Plus it can get things a little confusing.
SPOILERS FOR THE NEW SPIDERMAN.
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For example. Miles Morales is stated to be an anomaly, he wasn't supposed to become Spiderman. So why is it his father is supposed to die in a canon event if Miles himself breaks cannon? Maybe they'll explain it in part 2 but for now, multiple universus and time lines is just too much, Marvel really stagnated it for me
The multiverse has turned into the wet dream of these woke writers as it gives them free license to have as much diversity and representation as they want. And stupid people will gobble it up.
Reminds me of Batman vs Owlman
Owlman after discovering the multiverse determining that nothing matters, that the only dicision that could have meaning is Ending EVERYTHING, Multiverse and all
(And as Villains do, tries to convince Batman of this Nialistic mentality)
Batman admitted he was correct they were similar in they both had stared into the abyss ...
But Unlike him , Owlman Blinked...
In the case of Miles it always means he repeats the same I'm Miles but I gotta fight to be in the shadow of the more popular Spiderman story arc over and over and over and over and over and over and over snd over and over.
On top of that, Marvel's multiverse is nonessitional, so all those Spiders he meets mean shit in the end. He cant stand alone with out them, thats why theyre there to carry foward the same story arc until eventually he gets a live action debut in MCU phase 10 😂 cuz Hollywood thinks live action is better.
Meanwhile DC has a pretty constant hirearchy for its multiverse. Theres the univerises separated by the Bleed thats on the outside between them ans before that is the SpeedForce Wall, being a fictional speed of light engery thats everywhere in every univeirse becsuse its source is outside the multiversee. Then after the Speedforce is the Sphere of Gods is where magic is from and finallt after that is the Source Wall where the most OP crazy shit is.
But how all of this gets used sounds meh to read honestly.
For the Flash movie none of this means anything. The directors said multiverse and boom all they could think of was lets sell nostalgia as the screenwriter has Bruce technobabble the multiverse concept out. Theres no acutal DC lore here. They are too lazy to use it. End of story.
Using multiverse means worldbuilding. The Peripheral on Amazon could never work in Disney or WB bigscreen
Have you read elric of melnibone? I like the approach that michael moorcock used which is that elric is an archetype of a hero, acting as balancing force between order and chaos that will always somehow come to be, there is no multiples of him nor other versions of him but there is always other eternal champions that must act to keep the balance of their world in one way or the other
I could have sworn the other champions were other versions of that one being. I believe it's even said as such so many times.
@@blumiu2426You’re Right. There’s a story where Elric meets three other incarnations of the Eternal Champion, and they temporarily fuse into one body.
I can't wait for the Crom the Destroyer comic! I'm going to get an extra for my LCS owner, he's a huge Conan fan!
I hated the idea that multiverses exist for every decision made or not. That's such a narcissistic way to view time and a convoluted way to tell yourself no choice matters (your own or anyone else's)
Thanks for your support, Mike!
@The Fourth Age proud to support creators passionate about the comics and humanity, like you! 😁
I don't, if they are written well, Like how I write my multi-verse stories.
RULE NUMBER ONE: There are no infinities. There must be limits. There must be stakes.
RULE NUMBER TWO: Get Your Physics In Order. You must have HARD MAGIC/SCIENCE rules and you must stick to them like glue.
RULE NUMBER THREE: Ticking Clock. The Universe is not a good place. Time is running out. Literally. Time is a fungible resource and there is only so much time in existence (because nothing is infinite). Thus if you are having vast multi-dimensional conflict, there has to be a reason they are fighting. This means if you use Time Travel, you can't do it forever, because you are actually burning up time itself and speeding up the end of reality.
RULE NUMBER FOUR: Logistics. If you do not have logistics worked out and just hand wave supplies, then your story will fail. This dovetails with why you need hard Magic/Science rules.
Multiverse was fine in the 80's, 90's and most of the 2000's but from 2010 on its been used as a tool of the IP owning corporations of brand dilution essentially in their quest for maximum creative flexibility while seeking minimum audience expectations basically minimum burden of performance they've used and overused multiverse for the sake of divorcing brands from specific characters and from specific versions, interpretations and characteristics of characters in the goal of reducing superheroes to just a costume logo and power set essentially ripping the skeleton out of IP's and letting any stray thought run around with the rest like a skinsuit. I'm not worried about the scale issue I think the superhero genre can course correct in that regard with the MCU it's finite multiverse arc is just the 2nd 3 phase act of the continuity if the films remain profitable enough they'll simply start a third act centered around something else in three or four years.
Came for the comics stayed for the philosophy...got a new sub
By the way, I wasn't sure until I listened back through because I was playing a game the first time, but now I am, your audio jumps up about two octaves right around the 26:47 min/sec mark. It then drops back down to the original level at around the 32:40 min/sec mark. It's really noticeable with headphones on 😅(edited to add second timestamp)
7:30 The Star Trek transporter doesn't make a copy of you. While it _does_ deconstruct you into your base particles, it then beams that original matter to your destination, and reconstructs you with the exact same matter you started off with, in the exact same relative position they were in.
I still wouldn't use one though. Don't even get me started on Thomas Riker.
I think this is my favorite video you made. So much to absorb. Could you write in the comments you definition of Scientism? I need to fully understand it better. Thanks.
I think GANTZ did it well. You can be revived, but that requires completing missions successfully. So there is a lot at stake in defeating the incredibly strong enemies, as it might allow you to get one of your lost comrades back. They also included the freebie that if you are still alive, but badly hurt at the end of a mission, you got completely healed. Meaning even more reason to win, to help your disabled comrades.
Maybe it is not so complex with the Multiverse.
A Multiverse plot as well as the endless cycle of death and ressourection is the result of serial production of stories under the influence of consumerism which is a childish variant of materialism.
Consumers want their product, in this case a story about a character that is already there for a long time. Every possible plot has been already played out and the main character has lived, loved, died and ressurected countless times. And every time this cycle of life, dead and ressurrection, the stakes have to rise and so the plot escalates in every round further and further.
But, why not let him go and make new stories with new characters?
Because the Customer/Consumer wants his product and the producers of these stories don't want loose the Money and they don't know how to leave this endless cycle. Consequently, the authors of these products despised the Customer/Consumer. And the Customer/Consumer hates the latest stupid story these authors made.
I can tell you've never read mythology. Otherwise you would know that what you're talking about is as old as human history. People tell stories and reuse the same elements endlessly across millennia and cultures because those symbols and ideals have meaning to human existence. Comics are but one manifestation of this human need to tell stories in the same ways.
@@PierzStyx People need stories about heros and heroism but not endless about the same hero if they also want a kind of continuity within this story. For example. There surely are 100 and more stories about Hercules life and his heroic action. But only one about his dead. A continuing story needs to have one ending, but not multiple endings and ressurrections. It just becomes all meaningless if no one ever really dies and nothing really ends.
The only, and original to my mind, author who i respect that wrote specifically about 'the Multiverse' was Michael Moorcock. His 'Eternal Champion' stories depend on the Multiverse's existence
And Dorian Hawkmoon was the last of the Eternal Champions The Count Brass trilogy is the end of the Eternal Champion series.
@@ShinDangaioh I spent a couple of years collecting many if not most of the Eternal Champion stories and then spent about a year reading them all. Moorcock is still a personal favourite all time author
@@ShinDangaioh Elric is still the baddest ass of them all
Ok, interesting thought on the multiverse. I like the multiverse thing, but that might have to do with how I look at it. I made a choice, in different universe, another version of me made a another. It's interesting to find out what happened after I made that "another choice" but that's not me, I made my choice and he made his, we can interchange or swap places in our respective universe only temporarily because we are the same person but not permanently because everyone around us also made different choices than the people we know. There are always ever so slight differences. So it all matters, there is meaning even in the multiverse because down to it, we are not the same person. In fact the whole point of the multiverse is that things matter. So you can't just replace a hero with an alternate universe version. There is more than just the physical body.
But let's get thoughts
The biggest problem with free will is that there is no physical mechanism for free will. By saying that, I mean to say there isn't even a hole in scientific knowledge large enough for free will to exist within.
You're right within the scope of your argument. However...
(I know how the following sounds at first blush, but grant that I'm right for the sake of this argument.):
Souls can't occupy a single body. They're too big, too complex.., especially the older ones. They are spread out among lots of 'containers', each experiencing different aspects of the self. We are hyper-dimensional in nature, we just don't know it because our wetware is struggling along in a very limited fashion.
The difference between the nihilist program and the actual Universal creative imperative is that *everything* matters, choices count and each part affects the other. We are emerging into a phase of our time on this planet where souls are going to have to either sink or swim. (Everybody should be able to feel the Wave by now). -Those who aren't sucked under are going to have to undertake the work of gathering all their disparate parts together and learn how to activate hyper-dimensional awareness. A comparison might be that of a tree learning how to think like a mouse. Or a mouse to think like a human.
I suspect the reason our creatives are being whammied and inspired to write all these stories about multiverses is in preparation for that task.
As with all spiritual matters, a given lesson or situation can suit both the up or down path perfectly. -Multiverse stories can be applied as a tool of oppression for those who hate god and want to escape reality and crawl back into the womb to sleep, or those same stories can be used as a means of activating and encouraging problem solving in a higher sphere of possibilities, to ready people for the next stage of growth, those who are eager for adventure and knowledge, who want to grow closer to god.
This is why I won't support these Spider-Verse films. The problem is right there in the title. The city/the world/the universe being at stake wasn't enough, it had to be infinite universes. It's the same reason 10000 star destroyers in a Star Wars sequel will never resonate. Great video.
In its self multiverse are not bad as it can be done right,
Sliders, quantum leap.
Land of the giants or the time tunnel.
H.P Lovecraft did the best interpretation of a multiverse in fictional history IMO
How? It is just cosmic horror Gnosticism.
The Outer Limits had a teleportation story like that
Guess this is another point for eastern pop culture. Except for very specific works, death and closure are there, as threats and destinations.
wow am early today .
The oldest book with that cloning system IMO is with Robert Heinlein. He discreetly put them into his novel. I think "Time enough for love" did the trick. At least, it was after he wrote "The Number of the Beast" where the multiverse idea came in.
multiverse:
! it's easy, all you gotta do is change somehting about an existing superhero.
2 you can make any superhero whatever you want. For example you could have a Wolverine with a sexual attraction to poultry. It's an alternate universe! it's Canon! Chicken-(censored)er Wolverine is a thing!
The only multiverse stuff ive really enjoyed are the bsuper robot wars games (and to a lesser extent getter robo, because its anime adaptations are all different takes of the franchise)
I don't exactly hate multiverse stories, i just hate how overused it is. Transformers has deadass done this 5 times! I'll say it again, FIVE! From Shattered Glass to Cloud to Gobots to Legends and finally Legacy. It's getting repetitive
First again.
I... enjoyed homestuck so I can't judge
Bioshock 3 did the multiverse right. Marvel and DC...so so wrong.
Until the DLC
Someone clearly misunderstood the Spiderverse movies. They're about the only proper execution of the multiverse in the Marvel movies. I don't even know how this got recommended to me when I was just watching hero backstories.
Multiverse tales can be really good and have been. It is when the concept is used to write off laziness it falls apart. I will not watch spider verse 2 because of the role Easter eggs and race swapping. I love that May Day is on the big screen but baby Parker is not enough to win me.
I disagree with you on Everything Everywhere All At Once. I think the point of the movie was that even though there are many alternate versions of you, there isn't one just like you