E10 Petrol - Its Effects on You, the Environment, and Your Classic Car
Вставка
- Опубліковано 7 лип 2024
- On 1st September E10 fuel was rolled out across the UK, replacing E5 as the standard grade of petrol. But in the time since, plenty of fuss has been made over its possible impacts.
This video will discuss E10's impact on the average consumer, the environment, and our beloved classic cars.
If you're interested in the study on engine wear, then here it is:
SAE Technical Paper 811199, ‘The Effects of Alcohol Fuels and Fully Formed Lubricants on Engine Wear’ www.sae.org/publications/tech...
Patreon: / twincam
Would you like your car to be in a video?
If so, contact me via the links below!
Email: twincamcars@gmail.com
Instagram: / twincam_vids
Twitter: / ed_westby
TikTok: / twincam_vids
Facebook: / twincamvids
00:00 Introduction
00:52 How Fuel is Classified in the UK
02:25 E10: The Chemical Difference
03:26 The Practical Effects
06:51 The Environmental Effects
11:15 The Mechanical Effects
17:05 Conclusion - Авто та транспорт
Can we just appreciate how he talked about a very complicated subject, very clearly, without ums, errs or falling over his words. Real pleasure to watch and useful information.
Thanks Adam, that's very kind of you to say :)
That being said, no, I didn't do much planning for this, hence the continual reference to my notes hahaha
@@TwinCam It was still delivered really well and the information was great. I agree with what you have said about the government not really making this clear enough. You should be able to enter your reg and get a really clear answer. Buick is not even on the drop down list lol, so I cannot check for my car at all. Luckily I have some good contacts for advice.
He’s reading from a script for much of it.
And I don’t blame him at all. Lots of good information there concisely conveyed.
@@TwinCam Some very good points well made there mate. You've a knack for it
Agreed this fella has found what he is very good at👏
I don’t think there’s one member of parliament who speaks as clear and precise as this chap.
Boris has his own language
Here here!
That's not difficult.
That's why they're MP's and we (the public) vote these (some times morons) people in to running our country!!! They know best!!!!! 🤷♂️🤷♂️🤷♂️
He'd get my vote
So, we have great swathes of the Amazon rain forest being cleared to grow Ethanol crops. This reduces the carbon absorption from the atmosphere as the crops are much smaller than the tress they replace. Result; E10 fuel gives a higher carbon footprint than using oil out of the ground, plus it is morally indefensible to grow crops for fuel rather than food.
What a mess 🤦♂️
What a joke
For E10 in France, sugar beet is used. It is used to produce sugar, animal feed and the waste is used to produce ethanol. This could also be done in the GB (perhaps it is).
I hope this helps.
Whatever its made from, it attracts water into the fuel system. Rots the rubber components in quick time. My boat engines are nackered because of what amounts to fuel dilution.
Just found this - Sugar cane is harvested at the end of the growing season. Before it is cut, the dry leaves of the cane are burned to simplify the harvesting process. Only the sucrose-rich canes are left after the leaves are burned. The canes are then cut and crushed and the remaining fibre called “bagasse” is left to dry. The dry bagasse is then burned to power the refining process.
Consequently, sugarcane never has much of an opportunity to sequester carbon, as do trees. The cellulose of trees is a much higher quality form of sequestered carbon. Plus trees are allowed to grow for many years as opposed to a few months. So sugarcane never gets to capture much carbon.
You're correct.
I just turned 39 years old yesterday and I've always said that the human race is stupid, clever but stupid. You are I think 10 years younger than me and I have to say that you are very mature and knowledgeable. I love listening to your videos cos they make so much sense. Keep inspiring and studying these subjects of the classic cars. We love them and you. KEEP IT UP
Thanks Ian, that’s very kind of you to say.
Totally agree with you, but I'm pretty sure he's a lot younger than 29 though!
21!
A person is clever. People are stupid. 🤷♂️
Funny you say that. Last night on BBC'S iplayer, i watched a film called The Age of Stupid and you are so right. Well worth a watch if i can recommend it to you. Enjoyed and agreed with, reading your comment about this young man.
Are these the same ‘positive environmental impacts’ that had the government pushing diesel cars 15/20 years ago?
Ye and then realised its rele bad iv been working on cars for 10 years now and have always said diesel was awful lol
A diesel engine produces less CO2 per mile than the equivalent petrol engine, but the particulate emissions (Soot, to you and me) and Nox are usually worse. At the time, diesels were seen as an effective way to meet CO2 reduction targets that the government had adopted.
@@webtoedman and at this time they’re saying the same shit
THIS in spades! A point I've been making many times since then. Those clowns should be made to stand behind their Diesel Cars during the emissions part of the MoT test taking deep breaths. Maybe then they will understand! What a shower.
Diesel engines are cleaner than petrols *_on the motorway._* The problem is that governments all over Europe started incentivising Diesel cars for this reason, making them cheaper to buy. Diesel was also cheaper than petrol, so they were cheaper to run too. And then what happened? Of course, every cabbie from one side of Europe to the other bought a Diesel for all of the above reasons, and were running them almost exclusively in towns, where Diesels are worse than petrols for emissions. As we should have come to expect by now, governments put little to no thought into the decisions they make.
These days, the problem with Diesels is the cost which comes with aftertreatment complexity. Yes, the combustion side is more expensive than on petrols, but the cost pales in comparison to the aftertreatment. Because of EU7 legislation, Diesel cars will be fitted with multiple SCR units for cleaning NOx, and multiple LNT units for cleaning CO, CO2, and NOx storage. That's a heck of a lot of expensive metals.
This lad deserves all the support he gets,and more! He is improving in leaps and bounds,and has this extremely sunccint way to express himself. He won't be a politician or media reporter,that's for sure,being far too truthful and honest for those ambitions,but you can listen to him,and believe in what he says. A breath of fresh air in a world muddied and sullied by lies and propaganda. Here at last is a motoring enthusiast who knows his stuff and has the courage to back up his beliefs. Long may he continue!
I could not agree more. Ed is an amazing presenter.
Very engaging, clear and informative, as always. Best thing about your videos - no background music. Make sure it stays that way please.
Thanks mate.
yes indeed, and i like how he doesnt have one of those my show intros
@@TwinCam actually I think you should play March Of The Empire when rolling the Metro out of the garage
Imagine if the recent fuel shortage was manufactured so the fuel companies could shift their old stock faster.
No no our trust worthy government wouldn't shaft its people, unthinkable, perish the thought
Bingo
Probably to raise the floor price of fuel for good ......will.it ever drop down to 1.30....when now it's stayed 1.50 despite ' shortage ' now ending
@@mrbeanz6451 Absolutely Mr Beanz. There is clearly no will from the government to deal with the greedy oil companies who are now royally shafting us. Unleaded near me is getting towards £1:60 a litre. Absolute disgrace. The government won't say a word as it is bringing in millions extra in taxes...My own fuel bill has now gone up to over £700 a month.
My old Triumph Bonneville needed a lot of work recently due to Ethanol in petrol. It melted the screen filters on the fuel taps, melted the rubber in aforementioned taps, melted the choke plungers in the carburettors, and allowed all the rust (caused by the hygroscopic effect of ethanol, and water sinking to the bottom of my fuel tank and rotting it) to clog my carburettor jets. Not a happy Bonnie !
Did the leaking fuel wash away the oil from the oil leaks?.
1970S Humour from a Honda owner.
I have had problems with my 1982 Honda CB1100R and replacing carb seals etc.
@@TheAutoChannel so it was just coincidence was it ? And accusing me of being a liar doesn't magically make E10 safe for older vehicles, using carburettors. I am willing to accept that it may be one of the other additives, but it is odd that it happened when I put plain (not super) unleaded in, and it had been fine for years on 4* then Super.
I stand by my comment as that was my experience, and I have nothing to gain by lying about what happened to my bike. I hope you have no problems with whatever vehicle is your pride and joy, and hope you get to use it on E10 for many years. I will only use Super in my motorbikes and diesel in my car. Have a merry Christmas/festive season.
E10 in my 944 killed the fuel pump in about a tank and a half. Nasty stuff
I run a 2004 1.2 Vauxhall Corsa with just under 68000 miles on the Clock, I've recently just finished my first Tank of E10 at 305 miles from the that Tank, when I was seeing about 360 miles out of E5, if I run 99 Octane E5 Petrol I see upto 400 miles from a Tank!
If E10 means lower emission but you get lower mpg are you not producing more emission in the long run ?
It's another Goverment money spin
That’s not how burning things works 😂
If you burn a different thing, emissions are different.
Ethanol burns so much cleaner that using more of it is still better from an emissions perspective.
This is basic stuff!
@@georgiamcdermott5140 yes but if you are getting lower mpg you have to use more of the harmful stuff as well there for in the long run more emissions simple stuff 😂😂😂
Georgia’s right. You may have to use more of it, but overall emissions are still lower.
In the same way as if you burn loads of coal, the harmful emissions are still less than burning a small amount of plastic.
Correct you get less mpg so you fill up more often costing you more cash and causing more emissions because you're using fuel faster and you get less performance out of your car or bike on E10, especially with bikes anyway. E5 costs a bit more per litre but it lasts longer and you fill up less often so it balances out and it's better for your vehicle i always use V Power in my bikes.
I'm getting roughly 5mpg less with E10 than i got with E5. What is also frustrating is that when i'm paying for "1 litre of petrol", i'm actually getting "900ml of petrol" but still paying for a litre of it.
How are you getting only 900ml?
@@stephen3654 "one litre" of E10 unleaded at the pumps consists of 900ml of unleaded petrol; and 100ml of ethanol. So we are getting 100ml of petrol less (ie, 900ml) in "one of petrol" than we were getting in 2019 before E5 (and subsequently E10) was introduced.
@@WorldVsWorldOfficial oh right, I see! 'petrol' we've been right royally stuffed up the arse yet again haven't we, it's £1.60 a litre now for actual petrol, when will people wake up?
@@WorldVsWorldOfficial Ethanol is a fuel in its own right and does burn though, it's not entirely "filler", but yes 1 litre of E10 is 900ml petrol and 100ml of ethanol. Having said that, 4 Star wasn't pure petrol either, it contained Tetraethyl Lead.
Youre forgetting that e5 and e10 denote that maximum amount of ethanol allowed is 5 and 10% respectively. The actual content will vary
Here in the US, E10 has been fairly common for almost two decades, and I've been seeing E15 more often in the last few years. Many gas stations have E85 for compatible vehicles, as well as 100% gasoline for "premium recreational" applications (small engines like lawn mowers and boat engines, or classic cars). Some stations just have E10 in all grades of fuel though.
One thing about ethanol (that I don't remember if you touched on) is that it attracts water, which can separate at the bottom of the tank if left sitting for some time.
Simply empty the tank over winter and refill in the spring or until you intend to use it again?
@@spats1943 He forgot the part where it also dries up your hoses and makes your seals into liquid.
Great content as always, especially on this subject too which is very recent for us in the UK. It's no wonder me and many others are subscribers of yours. You speak sense when others waffle on, you keeps things in a bite-size package which can be easily delivered to us viewers, who like me, don't have masses of technical knowledge. Like others say "keep it up" you are an asset to UA-cam!
In France we have 95 E5, 98 E5, and 95 E10. Most fuel stations have the latter two. I find 95 E5 out of town and in parts of cities where the more modest motorists live so it seems the type of vehicle the lower-budget motorist runs is taken into account.
My cars are 38, 26 and 19 years old. Only one uses E10; the youngest.
An absolutely HUGE thank you, Ed, for this video which is by FAR the clearest, most balanced and thought-through presentation which I have heard upon the subject (and one of your best videos to date - which is certainly saying something!). I'm just glad that I am in my sixties and not young as you are! This vid does give me deja vu as it took me back to my old dad's concerns back in the eighties about unleaded petrol and his aging Morris Minor.
Thanks Stuart. That’s very kind of you and lovely to hear.
With unleaded, we just dealt with it! Wether that be with additives or new valve seats. The difference with ethanol is that the environmental argument is full of holes!
@@TwinCam E10 = slightly less efficient so you by more fuel, burn more fuel thus you make big oil richer and you burn more fuel thus more emissions. Big oil`s way of killing electric cars and getting rich doing so.... sounds like a scam to me.....
@@kylereese4822 I'm confused how you think the farming industry being required more than ever is making the oil industry richer. While the oil industry does the final sale, the vast majority of the money goes to the government via tax and to the farms, as the oil companies have to pay the farms for the raw crop, which is more expensive due to the uptake of higher ethanol fuels.
@@kylereese4822 And emissions are lower. Burning more of it, in this case, makes no difference to that fact. The emissions are lower not just per 1000 parts, but overall.
@@TwinCam Weaker octane + ethanol even weaker burn thus less efficient so you need more petrol thus big oil gets richer... then the land to grow the Ethanol is diminishing more imports at high cost big oil gets richer by charging any ££ they want....
Thanks for making this video, it's the most informative one I've seen yet on E10 petrol.
Also I liked looking at the cars in that garage, it brought back fond memories of when I owned an MG Metro Turbo back in the 80's!
Thanks mate :)
Impressive communication skills; clear, measured and sensible. More worthwhile than most posts I've seen on the subject.
What an eloquent and coherent explanation! Good job young man! 👍👏👏
Thanks mate :)
If this was just environmental they would add another pump, and leave the old E5 there for older cars even though its not that good, its about destroying older cars and getting them removed from the road, there are no kits to rebuild the fuel systems, no mass drive to switch over the fuel systems, take it or leave it attitude, most of us won't have £40k to buy electric. If the carbon footprint is an issue do something that will make a difference, start with shipping, tonnes of heavy oil used to ship goods around the world, air travel which dumps out loads of pollution.
After 9/11 the air was cleaner, pollution levels dropped, the 1% Co2 we produce is 28 times less than China, setting unrealistic figures for "green" issues is stupid.
A study during lockdown showed that although the air in cities became less polluted by people not driving, CO2 emissions did not significantly drop. This brings into question exactly how much driving our cars is contributing to climate change vis a vis flying and electricity production; and leads one to ask if the issue is being grossly exaggerated, and if so, why?
It's all just politics and appearances. Like the ridiculous electric planes idea; they'll never replace airliners or even jets, only small general aviation planes - and what tiny proportion of CO2 are those responsible for?
@@imSatnav the people were still breathing, cooking, heating and lighting their homes, look at world population increase and Co2 increase and they both go up at pretty much the same rate, so we need a mass cull of the cause, 5 out of 7, might be a bit of a hard sell that one!.
@@CrusaderSports250 8 out of 10 would make a good start imo... and they could be used for biomass power generation
@@imSatnav I do remember 2 studies from after 9/11 one showed a massive drop in Co2, the other was the same for particulates, I believe a climategate effect is going on, the 2 studies are no longer available, during Lockdown it was reported traffic volumes were below levels in the 50's, every graph fails to reflect any drop in Co2, with road traffic and much of air travel at a standstill why has reporting not shown any drop, like climategate I think selective monitoring can and does show what you want, in order to keep funding people will show whatever is required. Roads were deserted towns like ghost towns aeroplanes parked in rows, yet no one reported any drop in pollution.
An absolute pleasure listening to your informative and easy to understand presentation on this subject
I learned something just now and I enjoyed doing so. I like this kind of content from Twin-Cam and would like to see more. Thanks.
An excellent and very well informed video about this as there is definitely confusion and conflicting advice! Love the A-reg Metro behind you, just fantastic little cars.
Brilliant video, I learned a lot here thanks. As you hinted, we "classic" car owners do tend to pay more attention to everything including the fuel and coolant systems anyway!
The recent CO2 shortage reminded me that from the 1020's until the early 70's Distillers made a "petrol" that was almost pure ethanol marketed under the brand name of "Cleveland Discol" Cars were not adversely affected by it back then, many drivers swore by it as it burnt cleaner than other brands made from crude oil. These days ethanol can be made from methane (natural gas) which might explain one of the reasons for the sudden hike in gas price. The model T Ford was designed to run on ethanol but that got banned during prohibition.
Very informative, however he's definitely missed one vital point. Both me and my wife have cars that supposedly run fine on e10. In September when e10 became mandatory, we did the switch as many would have. However we both noticed a substantial decrease in fuel efficiency and I was spending roughly £10 extra a week on fuel - I do the same daily journey and always drive in a similar fashion. Anyway, to cut a long story short, my wife also noticed her fuel was not going anywhere near as far, so we've both gone back to e5. Although I pay extra and am getting less litres for my pound, my weekly fuel cost has come down another £5 a week so clearly, this e10 is burning extremely quickly and It does beg the question, although it may be greener, if we need to burn a lot more of it, how clean is it!?
I'll most definitely stick to using e5!
Snap. Mine runs E10 but it goes nowhere. E5 costs more but I get more mileage. Either way it's one long rip off with the price of both having shot up.
Bizarrely my cars responded better to the E10 than the E5. It's quieter smoother and doing fractionally better mpg!
@@anotherinternetaddict extremely odd, particularly as our trusty old government have admitted you get fewer miles to the gallon (although in my opinion they have still massively downplayed the reduction).
He mentions increased fuel useage at 2:50.
That lack of maintenance bit is spot on. Very often when a classic car has caught fire or burned to the ground, people from all corners immediately blame E10 for being some kind of car igniter. Truth is that most of these people simply refuse to maintain their fuel lines, which were a ticking time bomb regardless of E10. Sometimes even on their photo's you can see them using the old stock hoses. When I bought mine, the fuel lines were one of the first things I replaced since the originals already had visible cracks on the outside. And I've seen many cars from others who still have those in place as well because "It is original and looks better".
Before you wonder, yes. Some of these people do indeed prefer to drive on original 40 year old tires as well, all for originality sake. But it's the E10 that's the culprit!!111!
Lots of interesting and relevant information in there. Sound advice, clearly delivered. Cheers.
I'm American. I have been living around E10/E15 for 40 years. In practice, the effect on rubber fuel lines is negligible. Since moving away from cloth-wrapped lines in the early seventies, fuel lines have not shown any measurable effect beside that of normal aging.
North American and Brazilian cars will be equipped with hardware designed to support alcohol fuels starting in the early eighties, and are unlikely to show adverse effects from their use. Indeed, these cars have been known to easily pass 200,000 miles (frequently doing over 300,000) without major internal engine work. If the serial number begins with 1, 2, 3, 4, or 9, a car was built in the US, Canada, Mexico, or Brazil and comes alcohol-compatible from the factory. This is also true for Japanese models sold in North America, but the last three Toyotas I owned were built in California.
The farmland issue for Ethanol in the US is also a component of US agricultural tax policy. For many years, the US government used commodity price subsidies to support (ostensibly) family farms in the event of a crop surplus depressing commodity prices. In the last 40 years, large agricultural concerns have been buying independent farms and their attendant subsidy allocations. This does not please independent farms, nor their representatives in congress, so fields that would lie fallow are pressed into service creating fuel corn due to subsidies not being as available to a corporate agricultural enterprise.
Terrific video as usual, Ed, presented with excellent attention to detail and impartiality. Job well done!
I thought E15 was a relatively new fuel. How long have you known of it? As a side note I have two 2016 Fiestas that I run on e15 and I have seen no negative results.
@@scottbuchele4814 In North America E15 has been around for at least 30 years, as an oxygenated fuel for dealing with air pollution. Alcohol is simpler to make and much less toxic than MTBE, a very complicated ether that does the same job and makes California's prices much higher than the rest of the country.
The UK didn't ban leaded petrol until the year 2000 -- most of my computers and video games are older than that! Here in the U.S., I don't think we bothered with E5. We went straight from E-nothing to E-10. And remember that U.S. and European octane ratings are different. 99 octane in the UK is equal to 93 octane Premium in the U.S.
It wasn’t banned until 2000, but good look finding it after about 1992!
@@TwinCam I think it was still fairly commonplace until about 1998, when a lot of 4-star pumps were actually dispensing LRP (Lead Replacement Petrol).
@@dungareesareforfools wasn't the same all over the country. I struggled to get it after 92
Banning and little availability are two different things. It was a struggle to get it after 92
some fuel stations in the US still sold 104 octane "racing fuel" at the pump until very recently, with the fuel still available by the drum at up to 117 octane (that's the US rating!) and piston engine aircraft still use leaded fuel for some reason (avgas)
Excellent Video Ed, really informative and the best one I have watched on the subject on E10
Really well put together Ed - well done!
Excellent distillation of the issues and certainly clarifies my thinking on the issue. I've always been uneasy about turning food into automotive fuels and the loss of habitat involved in turning land over to ethanol production just doesn't stack up for me.
Awesome, video, Ed. Very concise! I've been servicing old cars in the United States for several years now and it's been my experience that the damage I've seen caused by ethanol is more than just rubber fuel hoses and seals degrading. The fuel systems in older cars suffer far more corrosion too. Carburetors that sit for long periods of time (maybe a year or so) can actually have their internal metal parts seize from corrosion. Even if the car is used and doesn't sit, the fuel system definitely suffers much more internal corrosion than cars that are run on ethanol free fuel, which is still available in the States, but is expensive and a little tricky to find.
I am not sure if this applies as not a fuel engineer just a lowly industrial chemist but ethanol is hydroscopic and would therefore allow for a greater level of absorbed water in the fuel, this perhaps might be part of the reason for increases corrosion in these areas
Carburetors?
These cars must be more than 35 years old…
Great informative video. Finally someone speaking sensibly about this issue.
Having bought an MX-5 MK1 last September, this is really helpful as there's tones of people online fear mongering with fancy long words that a standard driver (like myself) doesn't understand.
Not sure why this popped up on my feed but happy it did
Some excellent points very well made.
Thanks mate.
Very odd that the introduction of e10 had led retailers to run down their tanks in anticipation of the change, just as the idiots started panic buying and caused " the crisis" ! Only the Telegraph seemed to know this.
I noticed that.
Is it just me or has journalism lost it's wits?
By the way I am on my second all electric ( Zoe now Soul) so why do I care about biofuel? Must be the fumes!
Probably some of the best presented YT video’s going. He gives the full facts without any prejudice.
Brilliant video buddy, thanks for taking the time 👌
Very informative and helpful video Ed. Many thanks. I run an older car. It is supposed to be E10 compatible - 2003 Toyota - but I've switched to super/E5 and have found I get noticeably better mpg and smoother running. For me, performance is not a consideration. I reckon I get around 10% better mpg for around 5% increase in fuel cost (approx. £1.40 per litre compared to approx.. £1.33 on most supermarket forecourts). I don't do high mileages, so the increased cost is negligible for me.
Exactly my findings!! I have a 2010 astra and is supposedly e10 compatible. Once e10 was brought in, my fuel costs increased 10% due to the poor fuel efficiency of e10. I have reverted back to e5 and although it's 5% more expensive than pre September, I'm still about 5% better off using e5 and my car runs better. Also, they use this engine throughout the 'astra j' range, which exists up to 2016...
Wow! Those were the days Laurie!
@@philtucker1224 Weren't they just? Only a few months ago, too.
Thanks for this Edd, you’re explanation was as good as anybody could explain about E10, certainly better and clearer than any politician could, your researched the subject really well and that showed.
I use both E10 and E5 in my Rover 200 R3, although I haven’t had any issues as of yet with E10, I’m fairly sure the car doesn’t respond as well on E10.
My car is a 2016 and its noticeably slower and rougher on E10 I am not using E10 anymore its hot garbage.
That was the clearest, most concise, informative, factual, best reasoned and summarised explanation I've heard. Extremely well written, researched and presented. Well done.
Thanks mate, that’s very kind of you to say 🙂
Thank you for putting the facts in a clear, common sense way.
Thank you for this Video great info. Thank goodness I got a near new Environment friendly £0 road tax diesel 4 years ago. It was just about the same time diesels were being demonised by the same non technical Media. Thank you media people with your PPE degrees for crashing the price of diesel cars and providing me with cheap motoring.
Three problems I’ve found with ethanol in petrol: 1) it goes off in 4-6 weeks in the petrol tank. 2) it corrodes the internals of alloy carbs. 3) it disolved fibreglass tanks (a problem for some ‘60s bikes)
I'm glad I came across your video. Thank you for a very well presented video on a subject that everyone who drives needs to be aware of.
Good, clear & well balanced reporting; thank you.
Having just bought a 1999 Peugeot of some kind, that particular point was very handy.
Even for a modern car, my Focus runs on E5.
The present government just doesn't care how much damage it does to everyone.
The best solution is to ban E10 and go back to E5 or even E0.
10/10 absolutely brilliantly presented and informative and no nonsense. I am getting sick of people acting over the top to try and sensationalise their videos. I like your style very much.
Thanks :)
You, sir, just earned a new subscriber! Absolutely impeccable why you pass on technical and complex information.
I'm driving a '89 Mercedes-Benz 190e 2.0 with a 4 speed manual transmission and I intend to keep this car running forever. This car is btw my first and only car and I love it dearly.
Much respect and admiration from Denmark!
Cheers
Thanks Søren 🙂
In the past in Brazil you had 2 variants of cars at the dealership, Standard and Alcool, the Alcool variants are compatible with Ethanol fuels, you could have for example an MK3 Escort Alcool back in the 80s, so by no means this is something new, and since 2003 cars are Flex fuel ready, so they adapt for E0 fuels or ethanol base fuels from E20 up to E100. So don't panic, change your fuel lines if they are old, check your gaskets, and that's it.
Very good summary. I totally agree with you about the dubious environmental benefits of E10 fuel - in a world where most buyers are transitioning to electric I think complicating the fuel situation for ICE cars is a very bad move. Anything which can potentially remove older cars from the road (by causing damage) is environmentally unsound IMO.
Are "most buyers" really transitioning to electric, though. EVs will never be more than 20% of the US car market, and I doubt the percentage will be higher in China. And that's a third of the world's cars right there.
So glad this refreshing channel got randomly pinged into my viewing list I think me is in for some great viewing
That’s a good video. Makes clear sense of everything. Your videos are excellent
Good job Ed. If nothing else, I hope your video will make people research this subject for themselves. At least get people thinking about it in a more sensible manner.
Thanks mate. That’s what I hope. I don’t know much, so if I get people thinking about the real effects, then I’m happy.
I didn't realise that the production of ethanol was energy negative but I always remember one of my lecturers in my first year of technical college back in the seventies starting the year with the statement you don't get anything in engineering or science for nothing, the analogy he used was if you stiffen suspension on a car for better handling then you compromised the ride and if you soften it for comfort you compromise the handling so despite what governments say about stuff being carbon neutral and better for the environment everything we do has an impact and the emphasis should me more about trying to minimise the impact than trying to eliminate it as that I'm afraid is a bit of a unicorn.
I think you are absolutely right that E10 is a bit of a blind alley but I also don't think EVs are the answer either, I think they have a role to play especially for people who do mainly short journeys, to and from work, doing the school run or older people like my late mother who used to do about 50 miles a week but the issue is and always has been the time needed for a full charge which if you travel somewhere say 250 miles away and want to come back the Sam day in a car with a theoretical charge of 400 miles it's going to be problematic, a much more practical solution I think is hydrogen combustion or hydrogen fuel cell which will give you the flexibility that we currently have with the ICE and I know that technology has it problems and is quite expensive at the moment but I'm sure the current technology faced the same problems in its infancy. Part of the problem is that in the last fifteen to twenty years the emphasis has shifted from reducing pollution to protecting the environment which are two different if related issues. As fo the assertions in the popular press that we the E10 fuel is going to dissolve the fuel tanks and cause the fuel systems to instantly fail in classic cars is simply wrong as you said I seem to remember the same headlines when it was announced that the government were phasing out leaded fuel and my 1950 Mk9 Jag and 1976 MGBGT V8 continued to run for years after using an additive with no problems whatsoever and I'm sure it will be the same with E10 as it has been widely available and used on the continent for over 15 years.
Yet another fascinating and informative video, keep up the great work.
Thanks mate.
Jeez this young man can present! A pleasure watching and listening, lots of good info gained. Thank you.
Thanks mate, that's very kind of you to say :)
I have a motorcycle with a very accurate fuel consumption display.
When we went from E5 to E10, I burn 3-4% more fuel than before.
Edit: Today I filled up my MC with 98-E5 fuel. I immediately felt a significant increase in power, and my fuel consumption went back to "before E10"-level.
I have noticed that too in my bikes so i only use v power now i also noticed a slight drop in performance on E10
I knew it wasn't my imagination,!thanks for the confirmation.!
Clear concise and sensible. Was at the pumps the other day and an older chap was kicking off there was no E5 for his 2005 Volvo. To him that was an old car to me it was almost new. His Volvo as with my wife's Saab and their predecessors have run on E10 in Europe for years. I think the tabloids throwing around huge figures need to get a grip on the fact many people daily drive cars in the 6 to 20 year old bracket and a car from 2000's is not 'old' in terms of build.
Thanks for helping dispel some of the fake news.
Thanks Alan.
The biggest thing I feel is that this same fuss wasn’t made when E5 was introduced. Surely, the introduction of any ethanol is a bigger event than raising its concentration!
Either way, it’s something consumers do have to address. If your car isn’t compatible, it really shouldn’t be used with E10. That’s a big problem, as now many people are left with no choice.
Twin-Cam Alan Bellwood said the guy was complaining about the E10 being a problem for his 2005 Volvo, interesting fact when I first moved to France where E10 petrol has been available for over ten years I phoned Volvo to find out if my 2.5 V70 of 1997 was E10 tolerant because it is significantly cheaper here and the reply from Volvo customer service was "Sir, all our cars with the exception of one of the S40s have been E10 tolerant since 1987".
I thought Volvos were!
Yeh he was moaning but E10 was fine for his Volvo even said in the book he was just a victim of being misinformed.
If you go to the government website, it says that all Volvos manufactured since 1976 are E10 safe.
This guy is amazing at communicating.
Well done
What a superb video. Clearly presented. Informative, and well researched.
Thanks Sarah :)
Somebody get this guy a presenters job on TV..
There’s a bit of James May about him.
Don’t! Because the dead hand of the mass media will destroy everything that is great about his work.
E10 has been available in Australia for over 10 years and all I can say is for my V6 every time I use e10 it appears that I get significantly less kilometres then compared to standard unleaded. It's a rip off that appears to be cheaper
You make really excellent points. We went over this debate too a few years ago here on mainland Europe when E10 was introduced here. Lots of panic, and basically every classic car fire was credited to E10 since, even though the vast majority of these cars had never ran on E10. They were just running 30-50 year old fuel lines without a proper check-up of their state for years. And that is a recipe for disaster regardless. I've had modern high quality fuel lines in my MG B for years now, I've ran E10 with 0 issue in it (but only when I know I'll empty the tank soon enough, for storage I get E5 or E0 if I can find it). I've also seen pictures of old Volvos going up in flames, despite them being ethanol proof since 1976. Just not on fuel lines dating from 1976. Maintenance is key. And yes, some caburettors also can't deal with E10, but the vast majority actually can. SU's, by far the most popular for classic British cars, are perfectly fine for example. Just be sure to keep an eye on things and all will be well.
You probably made a better video on E10 by not putting out in September. You raised some valid points about looking after these old gems of ours so we don't create a stigma through poor maintenance. Thank you - a check on my fuel system is on the to-do list for sure!
I daily drive a diesel so I can fill up with vegetable oil and my car will run, but when I had a petrol car I would use premium fuel anyway as I found that you do get a difference in power and economy, or I did anyway. Not sure about others. However, I think that the E10 idea is a good one as it will prolong the life of ICE cars, yet it isn’t fair on the drivers who have no choice but to use it. So like most things, we’re in the early stages of this process and need to wait for the policy to be “ironed out”, for want of a better phrase, before it will be viable.
I think diesel engines are brilliant because of their flexibility, including use of waste products as fuel; and diesel exhaust produces a higher ratio of heavier-than-air particles to greenhouse gases. Soot collects on the ground, it's sequestered carbon. Low nitrogen diesel is better than gas, including E10.
Oh I filled up on premium a few times and I did notice a difference. It put a bigger dent in my wallet than regular petrol.
The trouble is that diesels nowadays are far more fussy than petrol engines about the fuel that you give them. I had a BMW diesel from 2001 and I wrecked the injectors by running it on biodiesel part of the time. They're no longer made to be able to burn any old oil, ironically due in no small part to being made to meet ever more stringent emissions requirements!
@@dungareesareforfools on the other hand, converting them to old school functionality would probably be a matter of new injectors and an ECU flash, while converting gas engines to alternative fuels like alcohol, CNG or LPG requires a full rebuild.
Like the others said, few diesels are capable of it. Only the 90s Mercedes powerplants and the VW 1.9 TDI from mk4 Golfs and the Octavia or earlier engines could reliably do it as far as I know. Also, it gets fines depending on where you go in it. Haven't found out about Renault and Citroen diesels from that era though.
To me, it is more environmentally friendly to use waste oil from a local chippy for 20p a gallon, but the issue is that there is salt that must have been mixed in, so processing it will be difficult. I am interested in how this biodiesel will perform relative to ethanol from net emissions and environmental damage though.
I have been seeing the effects of ethanol including E5 for years now on carburettor seals on my two stroke petrol strimmer (yes that even with the lubrication of the two stroke oil ) two years ago I had to get the carb rebuild, rubber parts had turned totally brittle and recently I had to get a brand new carb.
Had exactly the same problem. Was having all sorts of problems trying to get my strimmer running properly and eventually stripped the carb to find a number of O ring rubber seals had swollen and gone spongey some blocking fuel feed holes in carb body. Ended up replacing the carb. Wouldn't mind betting a few carbs and fuel pumps on cars will have similar problems and maybe some fuel injection systems also.
So true. This terrible e10 has trashed several of my stihl two stroke machines. I'm thinking we've been stitched up. 1) a fake panic buying up of old fuel stocks, thus making room for fresh e10. 2) many cars now full of e10 which unless used quickly will attract moisture etc. 3) more cars fuel parameters being compromised and deemed mot failures, thus removing many cars, and increasing demand for new EV.
@@fransam1961 wow mine is a Stihl !
Can you not get any additives to protect against o ring degeneration? There is an awful lot of small engines out there mowers strimmers generators etc.
@@eggy1962 Use good two stroke oil and fresh petrol is all I can suggest. The guy who fitted my new Stihl Carburettor even suggested using a weak two stroke oil mix in my Honda "4 stroke" mower to guard against this issue ! (not brave enough to try that ! )
Another informative and interesting video Ed. Clear and to the point. 👍
Thanks mate.
Very informative and given by a young man with excellent communication skills
@7:14 As an environmental scientist of a certain age, I recognise as this being the exact same argument used in the 'push for diesel' which began at the turn of the century. It was always phrased in terms of 'carbon dioxide emissions' and 'the equivalent of taking x amount of cars off the road'. Unfortunately this is an asinine perspective as engines change in their technology very rapidly year on year and environmental toxicology is not simply measured by CO2 or greenhouse gases. It is actually more likely to be a resource extending measure due to the increasingly finite nature of the fossil fuels involved. Effectively diluting the fuel on a mass scale to extend production life. Increased ethanol production required has its own impacts.
Once E-zero ceases to be available, I will syphon the ethanol off and tip it down the drains.
Wow what a brilliant video, you are far more interesting to listen to than any motoring journalist. It amused me that you talked of remembering chemistry at High School. In my day it was the comprehensive school system & just a few years before it was the secondary modern & grammar school system. I feel very old!
Another interesting video. Keep them coming.
The 15 biggest industrial freight ships in the world produce more emissions annually than all the cars in the world combined but industrial emissions aren't considered a problem for some reason.
Emissions are largely a function of the amount of fuel burnt. Try doing the numbers in your head. How many cars are there in the world? How much mileage do they do on average? How much fuel does that take? How much fuel is that for each of those 15 ships? Could that fuel even fit in 15 ships?
If the numbers are too tricky let me help you with some ball park figures. There are about 1.5billion vehicles in the world. Lets say they use about a ton of fuel each per year. That is 1.5 billion tons, or 100 million tons for each of those 15 ships. Roughly 2 million tons per week.
How would a c.100,000t ship fit the 6 million tons of fuel need for a 3 week passage from the far east to Europe?
Sure they put out some pollutants that cars don't in any great amount but that is very different from overall emissions.
@@LiamE69 Ships run on "bunker fuel" an extremely dirty, low grade fuel oil and ships do not have Diesel Particulate Filter systems on exhausts that remove between 85% and 99% of pollutants like cars do and are not subject strict emission control legislation like cars are, do your numbers taking those factors into account if it's not too tricky.
@@totalutternutter Here let me quote from my earlier post that you obviously didn't have time to finish reading.
"Sure they put out some pollutants that cars don't in any great amount but that is very different from overall emissions."
Now "emissions" covers everything a process puts out. You claimed 15 ships puts out more emissions than all the cars in the world. They don't.
They do put out more of some very specific pollutants, because cars basically don't put those out. That is a very long way from emissions generally as per your idiotic claim.
I think I'll just stick with E5 Super in my E46 its recommended for it anyway, I find it runs a lot better and I get more out of a tank, the clio can run on E10 so I think I'm okay for the foreseeable future
I live in Skegness and we have one station that supplies super, there are two more within a 30 minute drive. Unfortunately they keep running out. I haven't had the fuel to drive my t3 for weeks now.
If you can find any (e5) cos all the stations around me no longer have it since the fuel shortage...
Same here have to run my 1jz gte on it anyway. I use Tesco 99 loads of their garages about
An excellent informative presentation, well done.
What a great video. Informative and extremely clearly delivered and well presented. Subscribed.
Wow In Australia we have 4 different grades of petrol. Most stations have at least 2-3 out of the 4 grades available
E10 unleaded, Standard unleaded 91 octane, Premium unleaded 95 octane & Ultimate unleaded 98 octane.
They go in that order from least expensive to most expensive. E10 has been around for years down under.
This is about right.. Most cars have fuel injection systems which automatically compensate (intake/exhaust sensors, some with variable valve timing). The E10 rates at 94 octane, and is often the cheapest (compared to the standard 91 unleaded), but for optimum chemical combustion, the fuel/air mixture goes 'richer' for E10 (say, 1:14) instead of (say, 1:16) for standard 91 octane. With the modern electronics controlling the mixture, the vehicle would use more E10 per unit distance...
Oh at long last someone has explained this issue in a way I can understand. Thank you. I just hope it really will be ok in my 30 year old K10 Micra.
Thanks Richard ☺️
Just keep on top of all the fuel system components. If they’re not up to R9 standard, then they will absolutely need changing!
Nothing can kill a K10 they will survive a nuclear war.
@@TwinCam I have been running my car on E5 super ever since I got it. Though obviously that will not last forever. Early next year my car (still haven't thought of a name) is due a full service. Going to have all the fuel hoses and filter replaced then.
@@-DC- I hope so, because I love my car!
You have certainly done your homework for this,thanks for taking the effort!Very useful information.
Thanks mate :)
Excellent video, thankyou - I learned a lot
Very well said.
Ultimately I don't think that we have got it right yet for electric vehicles and their ultimate impact on the environment.
I have read that with modern internal combustion engined vehicles, their emissions are minimal on the environment compared with the brake dust and tyres that all vehicles have to have. I stand to be corrected.
Another issue with electric cars is the batteries .the whole world will be mining lithium out the ground instead of oil and we have the problem with recycling millions of used car batteries then .
I think it will be interesting to see what Toyota come up with around hydrogen.
My 205 doesn’t take E10. I’m not concerned though cos it won’t move. Winning.
Mine's in the same condition.
Do ethanol extraction, it's so easy, I extract it and add an additive.. it will not kill my lambretta, I've upgrade to e10 resistant seals, and I have a teflon coated crank.. also e10 resistant, but I take no chances and extract the ethanol.
Just use E5. Problem solved. Move on.
My country have been generated E10, E20, for more than 10 years. Now I take E10 into my Peugeot 309. That quite all right but get higher burned ratio.
I enjoy watching a man like you.
Excellently presented and informative review, as per his many other classic car ones, when reviewing the "halcyon" days of British motoring and vehicles, which had their imperfections, but gave us so much fun, heartache at times, but above all, fond memories of times when cars, like us, were of variable design and "character"! Top Man.
Thanks John :)
Excellent analysis. So much bull around about ethanol based fuels. For what it’s worth here’s my experience with ethanol based fuels. We’ve had E10 for ages here in France. Everyone uses it. We can also get E85 in many service stations.My 1995 Mx5 1.8iS (my daily driver on about 10000 miles a year) has been running happily on a mix of 75/25% E85/E10 in summer and 50/50% in winter for 4 years now with no ill effects except for a slight increase in fuel consumption. The ÉCU on a fuel injected engine copes well enough though she was less happy performance wise with 100% E85. My 1999 Saab 9-5 2.0t was also unhappy over a 75/25% mix and threw a check engine light over 75% of E85 (though I detected no difference in performance). So I do the same as in the MX5. In cold weather I stick to 50/50 because starting can be a bit more laborious.
Here In France E85 is under half the price of E10, so the advantages are considerable! I changed the fuel filters in both cars (because we’re told ethanol has a cleaning effet and supposedly detaches crud in the tank and fuel system) after about 1000 miles. But despite what I’d read about this both the old filters seemed clean enough.
As for electric vehicles I don’t yet see the advantages when you consider the pollution and environmental damage linked to the sourcing of rare metals for batteries, what happens to the car end of life and simply how you produce the electricity to power them - nuclear? Coal or oil power stations? Until it’s all produced by solar, wind, tidal or other renewables I’m not convinced. I suspect the carbon footprint over its life of my 1985 Renault 4TL will be better than a Renault Zoé….
BTW « lights up lights down » ( the Mx5 restorers channel) did an excellent video on this subject as well earlier this year - worth checking out.
So with this producing less CO2, and having less harm on the environment, how much of a price reduction can we expect to see on our road tax, London LEZ charges, petrol prices, etc?
HA! We wish. Get lobbying government. Don’t just stand and take it.
This is a well explained and informative video.
E10 is one of the greatest cons ever perpetrated by the fuel companies & it’s touted as an environmentally cleaner option when in fact it reduces your vehicle’s economy so you have to fill up more often & just as the fuel prices rose the economy went down so your pence per mile is up 15-30% depending on your vehicle.
I am thinking that a fuel that can have negetive effects on some engines is a small part of the plan to go electric
Great video Ed, yes petrol is going the way of the Dinosaurs but Battery technology is not as environmentally friendly because of the Mining involved.
So we should be using Hydrogen fuel cells in cars because all that comes out of the tail pipe is water.🤔👍
Have you looked into the production processes for hydrogen? They are toxic and expensive. The idea of green hydrogen production is just that - an idea. It's not going to happen regardless of the hype. You will also pay whatever they wish to charge you for it. I'll stick to charging my ev at home from renewable sources.
@@keithhoughton4308 Yes I have, have you looked into production processes for EV batteries, the mining of nickel-manganese-cobalt.
The minerals from lithium is concentrated in Argentina, Bolivia, Chile, and as for Cobalt Democratic Republic of the Congo is the world's dominant source, extraction in these locales is rife with environmental degradation and human rights abuses.
Abuses which of course need to be addressed. But battery technology is likely to improve dramatically using other sources. I'm interested to hear your view on clean production processes for hydrogen.
Battery cars are a fad, will pass
@@keithhoughton4308 Hello just watched this on youtube I didn't know this my self give it a watch.. SANDY MUNRO: No Batteries Needed for Toyota to Rival Tesla.
Did not know about this technology my self very interesting.
I watched this all the way through and it is interesting to see the various impacts of this fuel
Your a good teacher. And the knowledge you have of car history, how ever you get it is very interesting. Excellent.
Small correction: Leaded petrol (in the UK) was fully phased out by 2000, and unleaded was introduced in 1986. You could still get leaded throughout the entirety of the 1990's, (admittedly, only one grade-Four Star) although unleaded would continue to increase in popularity.
Edit: Someone else said something similar to what I just said. Whoops.
I think there is (or was until recently) some selected outlets that still sold leaded fuel. I used to regularly pass one near Holmes Chapel in Cheshire about 10 years ago that had it.
@@TIMMEH19991 Your correct, there are a few filling stations that sell leaded. Platts of Marlow in Marlow, the HJ Taylor filling station in Broadway, and the R. E. Mills Motor Engineers filling station in Rothley still sell leaded, at least according to the most recent street view capture.
I remember 5 star fuel at Bucklow hill Cheshire, maybe for upmarket cars in the area?@@TIMMEH19991
Wow. Your presenting skills are exceptional. Have you had any formal training in presenting?
Ed would make a great college professor. Clear, concise and easy to listen to.
Thanks Ted, that's very kind of you to say :)
What a refreshing change. Someone who speaks plainly and informatively on a subject without the need to inject political rhetoric or brand names for personal gain.
Thank you for this video. I learned more facts in 18 minutes than I have in the last three months of government and media articles.