You could tell Sheridan wanted to go, but as the commander and military governor he was simply not expendable. His place was in Command and Control. It's a hard thing ordering people to risk their lives. It has to be done, sometimes, but it is never easy; at least at least not for the great leaders who would never ask someone to do what they themselves would not do if they could.
All of their lives were at risk. Do you think the leadership would survive losing this battle? They'd die either in battle, shortly after, or following a sham trial.
@@annoyed707 As station commander he had to be in Command and Control, if for no other reason than to take responsibility thereby absolving the crew, were they to lose.
I agree one of the best SCI-FI shows ever!!!!!!!! I wish they had made more seasons or maybe a reboot!!!!!!!! But who could YOU find to play such classic and one of a kind characters!!!!!!!!!!!!
One little tidbit I really love is how Corwin stays with Sheridan and Ivanova when he was earlier in the season set up to be more on the Clark side of things. And he remains on B5 and becomes Lochley's 2nd in command! Really nice bit of B-plot.
Fun fact: for about half the show he was just referred in the scripts as "Tech no. 1" (or something similar), until the cast insisted that JMS come up with a name for him since he was now a recurring character.
Which is funny, as Ivanova botched probing his loyalities. "How you feel about orders?" "I feel orders must be followed to maintain command structure." ... what kind of a test was that? No young eager officer with no clue of the bigger stake would answer any different, and yet they kept him out of the loop just on those two lines. Kind of a bummer since I actually quite liked Corwin. At least he made the right call at the right time, without any forewarning which was basically Susans fault.
@@AlexJones-ue1ll Maybe. But consider how much they had to trust him to accept into their inner circle. That plot just showed under how much pressure they felt. You may be doing bad decision and dooming all of them to death. Or even dooming HIM to death by accepting him into their circle. Because he would become traitor.
@@modisp I would agree to that assessment, but Ivanova asked one generic question and that's it. She could have had a conversation about Clark, for example, to see if Corwin was blindly following everything Clark said or had some reservation, or unease, about certain things. I know they where under pressure and had much to lose, and did not want to endanger him, but in the end she asked one generic question that everyone but an anarchist would have answered that way, and left it at that.
I love the look between Sheridan and Ivanova at the end, especially how it's done without dialogue because it wouldn't be needed between those two; simply a look is needed for the two friends and colleagues to acknowledge their mutual realisation they may never see each other alive again.
IIRC, it's also a look of him remembering her brother (who served with Sheridan), her also remembering her brother, and both of them hoping that she doesn't end up like her brother (who didn't come back home).
Jesus this show was good. Season 5 wobbled a bit but Seasons 3 and 4 absolutely smashed it out of the park. Possibly the greatest sustained brilliance in sci fi history. I'd even put it ahead of Game of Thrones for long term story telling.
FYI, AS TO SEA.5, JMS HAS FINELY DETAILED NOTES ON 5, BUT HE WAS STAYING IN A HOTEL, THEY MOVED HIM, WITHOUT HIS KNOWING AND THEY THREW THEM AWAY. YOU CANNOT IMAGINE.....
Actually season 5 wasn't part of the original plan. JMS didn't think the network would allow him to have a 5th season for Babylon 5 so he kind of squished season 5 into season 4 so he could at least finish the story he had planned for the series. When season 5 was green lighted he had to quickly create a further story arc.
Five seasons were the initial plan but there were contract disputes that made Season 5 seem unlikely. JMS thereby compacted the originally planned Season 4 into the first half and season 5 into the second half of what we know as Season 4. Season 5 was brought about by his trying to turn ideas for follow-on stories into a cohesive season.
Corwin is the moral center of this scene. The look on his face when the full realization of what is going on and what he has to choose to do (or not do) is great. He stands in for us, the audience.
I like how someone actually leaves here when given the chance. You'd never see that on Star Trek....they'd all stand with their captain, no matter what, which is just not human nature. I like Star Trek, don't get me wrong. But B5 was so much better at portraying humans as they are: imperfect, fearful, selfish and yet capable of great acts of compassion, generosity and bravery when it's needed most.
Yup that's what I loved about this episode that we have people who were afraid and left. Which is human thing to do, in Star Trek which I love its always one package no other emotion or reaction.. In real I don't know what I would do if I was In the staff place in Babylon 5, would I stay and help Sheridan fight? Or would I go home to my family and think this war is not mine?? Tough question that I feel JMS did right deal with it..
+compmanio36 usually they did. though the did one in DS9 where they pulled it from under the rug by having him stay with his captain just so he could sabotage the ship.
+V Guyver I think I know the episode you talk about and of course there was the episode in TNG w/Wes and the academy but I feel Babylon 5 showed more complexity w/dealing of following orders and showing other sides.. IMHO
Star Trek, and Babylon 5 get a lot of comparisons because supposedly they are in the same category science fiction. But they really shouldn't be. Don't get me wrong there are a lot of similarities, but at the very core of the show they differ greatly. Babylon 5 is character based and continuous. Star Trek is episodic in nature, characters logic everything can be bent to fit the plot. One day gold is worthless, the next its the most valuable thing in the universe. One day the prime directive is paramount, the next its wrong. Also Star Trek portrays humanity as nobler and better then what is now, which I love, I do love that, they didn't always succeed at it, but many times they did and it makes for wonderful stories. Where in Babylon 5... Humanity is still present day humanity just with more gadgets.
+GhostInTheShell29 I agree w/you that both shows are very different in style but there are some points that were very similar Star Trek did dealt w/issues about the chain of command but showed very different outcome maybe bc Star Trek was more idealistic and Babylon 5 was more truthful about the human nature .
It's understated and easy to overlook in the series, but I very much enjoy that Sheridan and Ivanova come to care for each other like a brother and a sister. His knee jerk reaction to her request to join the Starfuries is to keep her out of harm's way. He let's her go after she explains that one of the command staff needs to be there to show the soldiers that they're not just airmchair commanders. I think it's made more appreciable by the fact that they manage to make them care so much for each other without it injecting romantic overtones or, if this were a lesser series, making a by-the-books love triangle with Ivanova and Delenn.
I like the relationship between Commander and the Executive Officer because their are comrades or brother /sister type of relationship without romance during the series
>His knee jerk reaction to her request to join the Starfuries is to keep her out of harm's way. I mean, she is also the XO it makes no sense to put your second most senior officer into harms way. She is much more valuable in a command and control position.
Sheridan served with Ivanova's brother on the Lexington during the Minbari War. His brother piloted the star fury that was destroyed as the Lexington was lured into the asteroid field by the Black Star. It was that tragedy that made them bond like brother and sister.
Fortunately for me, I purchased the series long ago and watch it from time to time. After watching these short bits, I have , starting from the beginning, started watching the series again. It often feels like a reunion of old friends, but of course, the ending is sad, and when I get to the end I always feel a sense of loss.
I had them all recorded onto VHS straight off the TV as it aired in the UK. Eventually I bought the digital versions on iTunes years ago. I will never stop going back to them :)
This show had such huge gravity .. you could just feel the weight of the issues. I hope our crazy world never comes to this but I'm not convinced it won't. If you note, the scene in an earlier episode of this show where Clark was sworn in as president was an actual mirror of the scene of Lyndon B. Johnson being sworn in as US president after the assassination of John F. Kennedy! Quite interesting to say the least!
One thing I always wondered about the hologram was whether the great machine made it visible to everyone on the station. I've got the awful image in my head of an alien sitting on the toilet staring up into the face of a transparent human captain. Another issue is that the humans are using a technology that no one on the station knew they had access to. What are the limitations of this technology? If the humans knew enough to place a projection in your bathroom, could it be that the projection is also looking back at you?
@@annoyed707 I don't assume anything. However there was such a mixture of species on the station that one of them is bound to do their business in a similar manner to humans. However, that is not really the point. You could just insert "alien doing something private" into my comment to get the same meaning. 😉
The only worthy successor to Babylon 5 currently out there. Not as good, as the political intrigue doesn't pan out as well, but The Expanse does draw on Babylon 5, Heinlein, and Niven; and you can't go too far wrong with that combination.
Ya really can't put Babylon 5 on the big screen now. Far too many of the key cast members are gone and the series is too good to reboot. It's a shame Crusade didn't take off, or Babylon 5 might have ended up being Star Trek levels of famous.
@@kurtjk01 As it currently stands at the end of its fifth season I think “The Expanse” is better than “Babylon 5.” The plot is arguably not as complex, but it’s better-acted (apart from the main cast), better-directed and infinitely better-produced. That said, for all their similarities the two shows represent two distinct sub-genres of SF. For all of its narrative sophistication B5 is in many ways a traditional space opera, with its colorful (and mostly humanoid) aliens, vast federations, and magic technologies. With its almost total adherence to real science and by keeping most of the action in our solar system, “The Expanse” is television’s first stab at hard SF. Both shows will be remembered as landmarks.
Loved this show and still do. This is possibly the best episode. It's one I well up at every time. Something about the underdog doing the right thing when it would be easier not to.
I wonder what became of the colonies after the Earth civil war. We know Mars kept their independence (sortof), but I don't recall any mention of Orion 7 or Proxima 3.
They rejoined the new Earth Alliance. However after holo-Garibaldi provokes the Great Burn, the colonies are now part of the Interstellar Alliance covertly helping Earth heal. Mars was always resisting Earth rule even in better days, so independence was ensured as a reward for helping topple Clark. Proxima 3 and Orion broke off only because of Clark. Even Babylon 5 is seen to be staffed by Earthforce again(e.g Lochley).
Watching modern TV n movies just doesnt compare to this show as a whole. on another point...modern day says we never had strong female leads... just gonna list off 2 characters from this show... the list is MUCH bigger and you know im right :D Ivanova.. Delen
I wish you had posted the following battle sequence as well, as the two scenes together make the dramatic suspension complete. There is no high quality version of the final battle posted on UA-cam :-(
They were concerned about Clark and/or the Shadows targeting the planet directly. As Sheridan said, it was an ace in the hole they didn't want to reveal before they had to.
Clark would've loved that. His propaganda was always about the Big, Bad Alien and there Sheridan would be using an alien to wipe out an Earth taskforce in cold blood. Sheridan always, deliberately made Clark's forces _choose_ to fire first on _their own people,_ because he knew how that would play at home.
Ahh the recurring quote - "my father told me" - if you read the Scriptwriters Guide JMS uses it in a couple of screen plays - sort of like Aaron Sorkin's "gather ye rosebuds" used in The West Wing and The Newsroom
The two best SF series I have ever seen are B5 and 12 Monkeys. If you get the chance to watch 12 Monkeys do so each season is better than the last and the finale is probably the best in any genre. Both completely different but each a work of love and dedication. B5 is more expansive, and 12M is finely wrought like an elegant timepiece. I can't decide which I like better so I won't choose. Also, I'd say The Expanse comes in third but quite a way behind.
Funny, I don't recall Trump calling for a ministry of truth to monitor news outlets for conflicting news stories. Obama was the guy that called for that, and even before that it was the Clintons that wanted to shut down opinion media to silence the views of others.
Trump has no actual power. He has a rabid fanbase in the far right wing, which has been in the political wilderness for generations now, but he's too busy making a fool of himself to pose any real danger. The next great American tyrant will be a left winger who sweeps in with the kind of acclaim the educated elite will never give Trump Hitler has made it impossible for the political right to rally that kind of support. Only the left, with the carte-blanche they've granted themselves among the media and university elite, can really gain the free hand needed to operate tyrannically.
@hagamapama *Even worse - Trump's "rabid fan base" makes up most of the country.* *You might as well say "most of Americans have been in the political wilderness for generations now and they support Trump".* *But Trump has been making a fool of himself boosting the economy and trying to save the country.* *But I agree the next tyrant will be a left-winger. It might even be Clinton - if the Liberals can convince the majority of Americans (Trump's "rabid fan base") to let in more illegals and make them democrat-voting citizens.*
In Gundam, the side that declared independence is the "Clark" faction, even killing a peaceful leader (Santiago/Zeon Daikun) and installing his deputy (Clark/Degwin Zabi). And very few Zeon actually defect to the Federation.
I kinda wanted that one guy who left to turn and say "im not actually leaving i just really need to take a leak". But anyway its a fantastic piece of writing
An independent space station out in the middle of nowhere is actually a good idea. Especially if very well armed. Switzerland comes to mind. Open to trade but closed to invasion. A place of diplomacy and banking and secrets.
@@hansmeyer7225 aanndd how old are you? I'm in my 70s. I've read, and Lived a lot. Education isn't everything. Especially today. Get some maturity and self education and get back to me.
I agree, I liked that angle a lot. It was a very neat element. The sad thing about Ivanova is that there were so many people who did like her, but it never seemed to line up for whatever reason.
This was the 90s. At the time it was okay to have strong female characters without the show banging on about them being female and how significant that was.
@@oenrn Yes. So much better times for everyone. Ivanova, the iconic character, never mentioned once that she was a female in a men's world. Or was surpressed for being a girl, or any of the other nonsence. Progressive storytelling when the story mattered over politics. God, I wish those activists today would look at this and go away in shame.
Love B5, just finished rewatching it in fact (or at least the first 4 seasons). It just occurs to me however that B5, from that point forward, is a military dictatorship. I don't recall any attempt at creating a civilian government. Maybe Mr. Garibaldi wasn't that off base. (The reimagined Battlestar Galactica did a better job of this, with a civilian government from the very beginning butting heads with the ranking military officer).
Garibaldi does have a point about the situation. That’s why this show was so great; it dealt well with the nuances of these events while maintaining a moral center.
Just noticed a rare jms contradiction. (Seriously, props to how internally consistent he usually is) "Its our fight, not his" "Hes our ace in the hole" Soooo is he fighting for you or not? And before the flame war starts, im a huge fan too, and maybe thats part of it. You cant really love something w/o accepting the flaws. And despite 90s cg tech and a smallish budget for well, everything else, its still one of the absolute greatest sci fi shows, period, full stop.
Lol and another thing he did show in the story....morally superior groups do sometimes stoop to being "practical" when needs must. Noones above the occasional useful hypocrisy.
he’s protecting the planet and that includes space above it, if he believes that the station is in mortal danger he’ll defend it. Sheridan must have told him that to keep him from being involved but he also knows that it’s inevitable that there’d be intervention if the humans were about to win against the station
it's B5's fight but the Great Machine is also at risk if Clark's troops come near it. Should B5 be overwhelmed by the Clark forces Draal will have to get involved , but Sheridan hopes that won't be the case, as Draal being a Minbari will draw Delenn and her people directly into the conflict. The planet where the Great Machine is also the refuge for any civiians who might need to leave the station if things get hairy
Damn! Delenn calling out all the grifters, fakes and blackmailes suckers in the political class .... at the ends she's thinking "don't make me start calling out names on the Epstein flight list" LOL
The only episode in any show were production,casting ect errors happen and they said **** it might as well create greatness of a bad situation and they surtenly made greatness with this episode
I would think that they have about the double the size of the rooster vs the number of fighters, as in a crisis pilots can get tired and exhausted. So they have fresh pilots ready, or if any gets sick or incapacitated in some way.
If a fighter can be fabricated in a few weeks and a pilot takes months if not yeas to fully train, which are you going to have more of on hand than you technically need>
Couldn't really be helped. They felt they had to wrap everything up by the end of season 4 because they were not sure there would be a season 5. When there WAS a season 5, they had mostly run out of stuff to do, and I don't think the storylines for crusade had been decided (or they might have done those inside season5)
I have the box sets and they tell you what happened. The Vorlon war and Earth war were suppose to be separate seasons, but they were told they were getting canceled after season 4. So 4 and 5 got a rewrite to fit one season and halfway into filming got told they were getting 5 but was to late to start changing everything again. The season 5 we got was not originally part of the series.
@@LordTalos72 Yes and no. "Intersections in real time" should have been the season finale of 4, when Sheridan is captured and interrogated by Earth Force. So much of the stuff after that in 4 would have been moved to 5. Thats why some stuff of 5 seems stretched. But a lot of season 5 would have been the same, like the Centauri storyline and the telepath colony storyline. JMS always stated that 5 would be the epilog of a novel, with less action and a chilled down story telling. But most of it would have been the same, just a bit tighter storytelling.
No, they are just comrades and good friends. The looking at each other was because they may never see each other again, but no romantic feelings involved.
Our armed forces personnel should have a choice before getting involved in unjust illegal wars ordered by Governments. If they decide not to fight, then they should be given that right and not face prosecution or persecution. SOLDIERS ARE NOT MACHINES!
All soldiers have a duty to refuse illegal orders - in democratic countries this is part of their training. But you also have a duty to follow legally given orders, and each individual soldier can't decide his own foreign policy - that would just lead to chaos.
***** Well, in countries like the United States, all the soldiers are voluntary - they make that choice when they sign up - except in times where there is a draft. In other countries there is mandatory conscription, but in many you can get out of that if you are a true conscientious objector. If you just disagree with the leadership, meaning you want to pick and choose what wars you fight in, you instead have a choice of voting the leaders out or moving to a different country.
PS: When war happens there is typically no shortage of on-the-spot volunteers. The problem is the lack of *well trained* volunteers, which is why some countries have conscription.
Volunteer or not, strict military discipline is very important in an army - without strict obedience an army cannot function at all. That being said, every soldier has a duty to disobey any order that violates fundamental moral principles - as established in several court martials, the Nuremberg trials being the most famous, "I was obeying orders" is not an excuse for blatant ethical violations.
oneeyednarn Even setting aside the secret information that Sheriden had that Clark, formerly the Vice President, had attained the presidency by arranging the assassination of President Santiago, he was taking a stand on the basis of constitutional law. Clark was engaging in acts of war against members of the Earth Alliance, declared martial law over sovereign nations (unlike on Star Trek, Earthgov is not a true world government, there are still nations) and suspended the other branches of Earthgov (legislature and judiciary) in order to place all authority in his own hands. Military personnel must be mindful that their commander-in-chief does *not* have limitless authority in a constitutional government. Simply because the President issues an order does *not* make it legal. Intelligent soldiers will understand this and recognize that they cannot follow orders that violate basic law. If the President of the United States ordered that the military arrest the members of Congress and bomb cities within U.S. borders, it would be expected that they would refuse. The chain of command only gives so much power before even the highest ranking authority hits the ceiling.
How will staying in their quarters keep them safe? :-\ They'd be as safe as sailors down below an air craft carrier during a battle. Don't worry. Those torpedoes and Kamakaze planes can't hurt you.
Also, it’s a space station, and things happen in space. That everyone has a designated shelter area in case of a hull breach makes sense, and their quarters are likely those designated shelter in place locations. Lurkers just get spaced, but... always crappy to be poor.
The attackers can't risk to destroy the station. Not with all these alien ambassadors on it. The Earth Alliance might be able to defend itself against the Narn or the Centauri, but not against both. The Minbari would still wipe them out even with the advances of the last 10 years since the Earth/Minbari war. While the minor races aren't a real threat, they could still do some damage military wise. However, them cutting all ties to earth, especially on trading would hurt. There are several huge corporations that have their own treaties with those minor races, which would further hurt business. Aside from that, the station represents a major investment for which the Minbari put up a lot of money. Staying in their quarters will keep them safe from troops that might board the station.
Later in this episode a pod containing soldiers breaches the station and B5 security (and the Narn) have to fight them to prevent them from reaching open ground. If those soldiers had reached open ground, you would not want to be wandering around risking getting in the middle of a fire fight.
The quarters are in the furthest circle of the Blue sector. Later against the Shadows people are moved further in the station, even Londo and G'Kar are made to sit on bunk beds.
I will say this my uncal is in the army and has told me but if governments move on there own country then the army will split with the people that don't care and the people that wont fight there own .
@@ChannelReuploads9451 I think that Nighthawke meant that he was surprised that Draal didn't do it on his own on general principal. To that I would answer that Draal is too focused on the big picture probably to notice a fight that couldn't affect him.
@@roguishpaladin Draal was in contact with B5 the entire time, so he understood. The EF ships were not attacking the planet, so he would not be involved.
Would love to see a reboot. The story from S2 -S4 follows a great arc with this episode almost at the heart of everything. Could compress S1 into a Galctica style mini series to establish everything - incl Valen - and basically dump S5, was just a bit meh in the main. Also lose the melodrama, could get a bit grating with Sheridan and Delehn but that could just be in the direction. Great characters but sometimes their personal stuff just felt a bit forced. The designs are total classics, especially the Earth force ships and fighters. Proper Newtonian physics in the design and would love to see up to date graphics that show off that detail.
And what I love is that once again there three. Orion, Proxima, Babylon 5. And three in real life- the Crimea, the DNR and the LNR. Maybe JMS is right and that's the reason the Ukrainian Alamo is still standing?
Clark is Hitler. Have yet to see Trump order the deaths of innocent Americans, restrict our freedoms, etc? If anything, the democrats in charge are doing that
No loss there. I you judge something on something as superficial as outdated special effects (which were ahead of their time back then) you are clearly not mature enough to appreciate the show anyway.
@@AlexJones-ue1ll Not at all, there are far older shows i appreciate but those graphic put 1995 to shame, Original Star Wars graphics were better and they're nearly 20 years older. You make trash i'll point it out for you :)
@@The_Daily_Tomato Lol I remember watching it at the time thinking the cg was bad but its more about the story. I am used to dodgy special affects from growing up with Dr Who, tripods, blake 7 and hitchhiker! I think they also suffered from low budget like the BBC sci fi.
@@The_Daily_Tomato yep, as I said. If you arent mature enough, dont watch it. Apart from calling "graphics" better in Star Wars 20 years earlier makes you sound laughablely moronic as those where practical effects, not "graphics". B5 pushed the CGI for TV into a new direction, you still sound like a spoiled child that only judges something on its looks. B5 was produced on an extremely low budget per episode (even for its time), and they do need to pay actors as well. Quite a lot of them, in fact. But you only go "Ewwww, this looks bad for my bratty 4k experienced eyes, so it sucks." Go watch Star Trek Discovery then. You might be able to even follow that story garbage you get offered there.
Wade Coshatt how so? Obama never claimed he wouldn’t respect the results of an election he didn’t win. Kind of a rejection of the Republic there by Trump... That said, even if the Russians are involved, they aren’t going to hand over cool tech like the Shadows did.
You know, young idiot liberals have been treating every Republican president since Nixon like he was the worst man in the universe. It happened to Reagan, both Bushes, and now to Trump. Trump is not a good President. But if young Liberals keep demonizing literally every man to the right of Jimmy Carter, it's getting harder and harder to take them seriously, they become like the boy who cried wolf. The result is going to be, because you morons can't keep it in your pants, when the real tyrant comes, someone calls him out as a tyrant we're just going to assume he's another of you lot and ignore them like we do you -- until it's too late. The Readers' Digest version: Morons like you are squandering the credibility we're going to NEED to have a chance when the real tyrant comes, and YOU NEED TO STOP.
hagamapama which is exactly what Trump is relying on because conservatives have been conditioned to treat any criticism of their candidate as crying wolf. That’s the narrative that conservatives have been trained to repeat, and they will blindly repeat it long after they see people disappearing. It’s not “crying wolf” when there’s an actual wolf.
If you didn't want conservatives to become conditioned to treat any criticism of their candidate as crying wolf, you should probably stop crying wolf every time the Republican Party fields a candidate. I mean you guys were doing your thing even with MITT FREAKING ROMNEY. The ultimate milquetoast center right east coast cardboard cutout moderate Republican whose only actual claim to Conservative values was being Mormon. That makes it awful hard to take you seriously when the guy you're lashing at now is the Clown Prince of Twitter, an utter buffoon and career Democrat who won his election mostly because the voter base was fed up with the blandness of the last few mainstream GOP candidates. The only way the Republicans can field a candidate you guys don't try to punt into orbit is when they use an utterly bland cardboard cutout of a man like Romney who is completely unappetizing to his own voter base. And even that didn't work because when Romney was too bland to criticize, you went after his campaign instead. And you saw what repeatedly attempting to accede to the demands of academia and literati did to the existing Republican establishment. They're stuck with a protest candidate in office for at least 4 years. At a certain point you have to concede the same thing to right wing politicians that they feel they're conceding to you -- the right to be wrong in public without being directly compared to the devil. The conservatives went through that phase and have mostly gotten over it. The liberals are now stuck in the same place the Conservatives were in the 50s, slowly losing the culture war and lashing out and attributing their version of devilish influences to what they feel is the reasons why. At least the Conservatives have an excuse, they're a moralist party first and firemost. The party of tolerance is doing a piss poor job of tolerating dissenting worldviews from where I sit. Or you can prove me wrong. Show me one single Republican president not named Ronald Reagan who wasn't absolutely excoriated by the media while he was in office. You can't do it. The closest is probably George HW Bush, a watered-down Conservative who squeaked through his time in office basking in the glow of the collapse of the USSR and a successful war in Iraq.
I love this episode it's so sad in ways like the narn's doing the human wave attack against the boarding troops and being cut down like that gets me ever time I watch it
B5 is probably one of the greatest stories ever told. I miss it so much
And unfortunately quite a few of the actors who were on the show have since died with the most recent death being Mira Furlan's:(.
The show had talented actors each giving all their best performance.
Sheridan is one of the best space combat commanders in sci fi. Cunning, passionate and committed to duty.
Not afraid to play possum and use nukes😂
To White Star commanding officer, "I want you to fly to this sector, and blow up a few rocks, then leave."
The moment Babylon 5 changed irrevocably.
Right after ending that speech Sheridan said, "Well, we're in it now."
What if the mic had still been live?
I think the citizens would have understood what he was saying
I like to think Draal left it on to troll him a bit.
Everyone probably would've said "mood."
One of the best TV shows ever.
I have seen so many scifi movies, shows and read alot of books. I still get chills watching the Starfurries launch!
You could tell Sheridan wanted to go, but as the commander and military governor he was simply not expendable. His place was in Command and Control. It's a hard thing ordering people to risk their lives. It has to be done, sometimes, but it is never easy; at least at least not for the great leaders who would never ask someone to do what they themselves would not do if they could.
All of their lives were at risk. Do you think the leadership would survive losing this battle? They'd die either in battle, shortly after, or following a sham trial.
@@annoyed707 As station commander he had to be in Command and Control, if for no other reason than to take responsibility thereby absolving the crew, were they to lose.
I agree one of the best SCI-FI shows ever!!!!!!!! I wish they had made more seasons or maybe a reboot!!!!!!!! But who could YOU find to play such classic and one of a kind characters!!!!!!!!!!!!
Clarke=Biden…
One little tidbit I really love is how Corwin stays with Sheridan and Ivanova when he was earlier in the season set up to be more on the Clark side of things. And he remains on B5 and becomes Lochley's 2nd in command! Really nice bit of B-plot.
Fun fact: for about half the show he was just referred in the scripts as "Tech no. 1" (or something similar), until the cast insisted that JMS come up with a name for him since he was now a recurring character.
oneeyednarn
I remember reading about it. Particularly Claudia Christian was very vocal about naming him.
Which is funny, as Ivanova botched probing his loyalities. "How you feel about orders?" "I feel orders must be followed to maintain command structure." ... what kind of a test was that? No young eager officer with no clue of the bigger stake would answer any different, and yet they kept him out of the loop just on those two lines. Kind of a bummer since I actually quite liked Corwin. At least he made the right call at the right time, without any forewarning which was basically Susans fault.
@@AlexJones-ue1ll Maybe. But consider how much they had to trust him to accept into their inner circle. That plot just showed under how much pressure they felt. You may be doing bad decision and dooming all of them to death. Or even dooming HIM to death by accepting him into their circle. Because he would become traitor.
@@modisp I would agree to that assessment, but Ivanova asked one generic question and that's it. She could have had a conversation about Clark, for example, to see if Corwin was blindly following everything Clark said or had some reservation, or unease, about certain things. I know they where under pressure and had much to lose, and did not want to endanger him, but in the end she asked one generic question that everyone but an anarchist would have answered that way, and left it at that.
I love the look between Sheridan and Ivanova at the end, especially how it's done without dialogue because it wouldn't be needed between those two; simply a look is needed for the two friends and colleagues to acknowledge their mutual realisation they may never see each other alive again.
IIRC, it's also a look of him remembering her brother (who served with Sheridan), her also remembering her brother, and both of them hoping that she doesn't end up like her brother (who didn't come back home).
Jesus this show was good. Season 5 wobbled a bit but Seasons 3 and 4 absolutely smashed it out of the park. Possibly the greatest sustained brilliance in sci fi history. I'd even put it ahead of Game of Thrones for long term story telling.
FYI, AS TO SEA.5, JMS HAS FINELY DETAILED NOTES ON 5, BUT HE WAS STAYING IN A HOTEL, THEY MOVED HIM, WITHOUT HIS KNOWING AND THEY THREW THEM AWAY. YOU CANNOT IMAGINE.....
Season 1 was a bit... eh. Season 3 is where it really shines, though.
Actually season 5 wasn't part of the original plan. JMS didn't think the network would allow him to have a 5th season for Babylon 5 so he kind of squished season 5 into season 4 so he could at least finish the story he had planned for the series. When season 5 was green lighted he had to quickly create a further story arc.
Seasons 1&2 were boring lore and exposition dumbs. Seasons 3-5 killed it.
Five seasons were the initial plan but there were contract disputes that made Season 5 seem unlikely. JMS thereby compacted the originally planned Season 4 into the first half and season 5 into the second half of what we know as Season 4. Season 5 was brought about by his trying to turn ideas for follow-on stories into a cohesive season.
"You know I'm right." I always appreciate Ivanova's robust style of negotiating.
"I hate it when she's right" - Sheridan
Corwin is the moral center of this scene. The look on his face when the full realization of what is going on and what he has to choose to do (or not do) is great. He stands in for us, the audience.
Who?
@@stephenbyrne2170 at 2:45 Ivanova asks a guy if he's okay. That guy is Corwin.
He was also one of the few who subtly tried checking his stance in all this and were not sure he would be on board.
2:30 Nice touch that I didn't notice before, the guy who leaves appears to be having a heated discussion with another just prior to doing so.
I'd never noticed that before
@@WhiskeyBrewerI had, and it's mentioned on the TV Tropes entry for the episode.
Love how Ivanova reacts to the guy walking out!
I like how someone actually leaves here when given the chance. You'd never see that on Star Trek....they'd all stand with their captain, no matter what, which is just not human nature.
I like Star Trek, don't get me wrong. But B5 was so much better at portraying humans as they are: imperfect, fearful, selfish and yet capable of great acts of compassion, generosity and bravery when it's needed most.
Yup that's what I loved about this episode that we have people who were afraid and left. Which is human thing to do, in Star Trek which I love its always one package no other emotion or reaction.. In real I don't know what I would do if I was In the staff place in Babylon 5, would I stay and help Sheridan fight? Or would I go home to my family and think this war is not mine?? Tough question that I feel JMS did right deal with it..
+compmanio36 usually they did. though the did one in DS9 where they pulled it from under the rug by having him stay with his captain just so he could sabotage the ship.
+V Guyver I think I know the episode you talk about and of course there was the episode in TNG w/Wes and the academy but I feel Babylon 5 showed more complexity w/dealing of following orders and showing other sides.. IMHO
Star Trek, and Babylon 5 get a lot of comparisons because supposedly they are in the same category science fiction.
But they really shouldn't be. Don't get me wrong there are a lot of similarities, but at the very core of the show they differ greatly. Babylon 5 is character based and continuous. Star Trek is episodic in nature, characters logic everything can be bent to fit the plot.
One day gold is worthless, the next its the most valuable thing in the universe.
One day the prime directive is paramount, the next its wrong.
Also Star Trek portrays humanity as nobler and better then what is now, which I love, I do love that, they didn't always succeed at it, but many times they did and it makes for wonderful stories.
Where in Babylon 5... Humanity is still present day humanity just with more gadgets.
+GhostInTheShell29 I agree w/you that both shows are very different in style but there are some points that were very similar Star Trek did dealt w/issues about the chain of command but showed very different outcome maybe bc Star Trek was more idealistic and Babylon 5 was more truthful about the human nature .
I live in Hong Kong... inspired right now watching this for some reason...
If only HK has a military force that can oppose the PLA.
Be well
Never stop fighting them.
Hope that you're okay out there, man.
I really wish this show was on Netflix...
its not really then were is it.
It was on Pick TV (a Freeview channel in the UK) not too long ago.
@@aaronsalentine7876 Its now on Amazon Prime
@@DMS-pq8 thanks for tlling I do have amazon prime thank the lord!
Just get the dvd box set 👍
It's understated and easy to overlook in the series, but I very much enjoy that Sheridan and Ivanova come to care for each other like a brother and a sister. His knee jerk reaction to her request to join the Starfuries is to keep her out of harm's way. He let's her go after she explains that one of the command staff needs to be there to show the soldiers that they're not just airmchair commanders. I think it's made more appreciable by the fact that they manage to make them care so much for each other without it injecting romantic overtones or, if this were a lesser series, making a by-the-books love triangle with Ivanova and Delenn.
I like the relationship between Commander and the Executive Officer because their are comrades or brother /sister type of relationship without romance during the series
>His knee jerk reaction to her request to join the Starfuries is to keep her out of harm's way.
I mean, she is also the XO it makes no sense to put your second most senior officer into harms way. She is much more valuable in a command and control position.
Sheridan served with Ivanova's brother on the Lexington during the Minbari War. His brother piloted the star fury that was destroyed as the Lexington was lured into the asteroid field by the Black Star.
It was that tragedy that made them bond like brother and sister.
@@alanng6992 She already served under Sheridan on Io-Station for a couple of years before their B5 assignment. So they had even more of a history.
@@michaelguth4007 Yes. JMS had already set up a pre-existing relationship between Garibaldi and Sinclair, so it was Ivanova's turn this time around.
Ivanova is always right. I will listen to Ivanova. I will not ignore Ivanova's recommendations. Ivanova is God.
Arguably one of the finest speeches ever done on B5! Still sends chills years on!
The speech was a shock, but not surprising. Sheridan was backed at the edge, but he took his leap.
Fortunately for me, I purchased the series long ago and watch it from time to time. After watching these short bits, I have , starting from the beginning, started watching the series again. It often feels like a reunion of old friends, but of course, the ending is sad, and when I get to the end I always feel a sense of loss.
I had them all recorded onto VHS straight off the TV as it aired in the UK. Eventually I bought the digital versions on iTunes years ago. I will never stop going back to them :)
As did I. Unfortunately they are in storage some where. Have the complete Stargate SG1 seasons too, except for one disk... It was on sale... =P
One of the best sci-fi shows ever made.... I'll have to watch it all over again now!
This show had such huge gravity .. you could just feel the weight of the issues. I hope our crazy world never comes to this but I'm not convinced it won't. If you note, the scene in an earlier episode of this show where Clark was sworn in as president was an actual mirror of the scene of Lyndon B. Johnson being sworn in as US president after the assassination of John F. Kennedy! Quite interesting to say the least!
Babylon 5 is one of the finest sci-fi thats why i still re-watching the series till this day
Not according to Sheldon
One thing I always wondered about the hologram was whether the great machine made it visible to everyone on the station.
I've got the awful image in my head of an alien sitting on the toilet staring up into the face of a transparent human captain.
Another issue is that the humans are using a technology that no one on the station knew they had access to. What are the limitations of this technology? If the humans knew enough to place a projection in your bathroom, could it be that the projection is also looking back at you?
You assume that an alien would be sitting on a toilet. There is no guarantee of that.
@@annoyed707 I don't assume anything. However there was such a mixture of species on the station that one of them is bound to do their business in a similar manner to humans.
However, that is not really the point. You could just insert "alien doing something private" into my comment to get the same meaning. 😉
one presumes it wasn't beamed to the toilets
Likely played in all major areas and delivered as a station wide audio transmission as well as mail delivered to everyone with quarters aboard 😊
we need another series like B5. also, would love to see a B5 big screen movie or two.
I recommend most heavily The Expanse
saw the first season. they have another one coming out feb 1
The only worthy successor to Babylon 5 currently out there. Not as good, as the political intrigue doesn't pan out as well, but The Expanse does draw on Babylon 5, Heinlein, and Niven; and you can't go too far wrong with that combination.
Ya really can't put Babylon 5 on the big screen now. Far too many of the key cast members are gone and the series is too good to reboot.
It's a shame Crusade didn't take off, or Babylon 5 might have ended up being Star Trek levels of famous.
@@kurtjk01 As it currently stands at the end of its fifth season I think “The Expanse” is better than “Babylon 5.” The plot is arguably not as complex, but it’s better-acted (apart from the main cast), better-directed and infinitely better-produced. That said, for all their similarities the two shows represent two distinct sub-genres of SF. For all of its narrative sophistication B5 is in many ways a traditional space opera, with its colorful (and mostly humanoid) aliens, vast federations, and magic technologies. With its almost total adherence to real science and by keeping most of the action in our solar system, “The Expanse” is television’s first stab at hard SF. Both shows will be remembered as landmarks.
Loved this show and still do. This is possibly the best episode. It's one I well up at every time. Something about the underdog doing the right thing when it would be easier not to.
Who’s taking a stroll down amnesia lane during the 2020 lockdown?
Except it's the governors doing the shady shit now.
Man it's straight up depressing to see this dated 7 months ago and to also still be in lockdown :/
I wonder what became of the colonies after the Earth civil war. We know Mars kept their independence (sortof), but I don't recall any mention of Orion 7 or Proxima 3.
I think they rejoined Earth Dome after Clark was deposed...at least that was their statement for breaking off.
They were back in the Alliance during Crusade.
Back in the alliance after the B5 civil war. Humanity stayed together after the Drakh Plague.
They rejoined the new Earth Alliance. However after holo-Garibaldi provokes the Great Burn, the colonies are now part of the Interstellar Alliance covertly helping Earth heal.
Mars was always resisting Earth rule even in better days, so independence was ensured as a reward for helping topple Clark. Proxima 3 and Orion broke off only because of Clark. Even Babylon 5 is seen to be staffed by Earthforce again(e.g Lochley).
Sheridan and Susanova , still one of the best Leader and second in command Duo.
I once had a bumper stick the 1996 presidential race: Sheridan/Ivanova.
3:19 That pause to look, knowing it might be the last time they see each other alive...
Watching modern TV n movies just doesnt compare to this show as a whole.
on another point...modern day says we never had strong female leads... just gonna list off 2 characters from this show... the list is MUCH bigger and you know im right :D
Ivanova..
Delen
Was there even a non-badass female character in the show? Cause I can't remember any.
They dont care about strong female leads, its just a convinient excuse to force people to do their bidding and to have power over others.
I wish you had posted the following battle sequence as well, as the two scenes together make the dramatic suspension complete. There is no high quality version of the final battle posted on UA-cam :-(
They needed it to be short because UA-cam might have flagged it for copyright reasons, even if it falls under fair use.
Remember when they could write a strong woman
Ivanova's such a badass.
Love how they choose not to use the advanced weapons on the planet. The battle would have been over before it began.
They were concerned about Clark and/or the Shadows targeting the planet directly. As Sheridan said, it was an ace in the hole they didn't want to reveal before they had to.
Sheridan did something better, he sent out Ivanova.
Clark would've loved that. His propaganda was always about the Big, Bad Alien and there Sheridan would be using an alien to wipe out an Earth taskforce in cold blood. Sheridan always, deliberately made Clark's forces _choose_ to fire first on _their own people,_ because he knew how that would play at home.
it wouldn’t be used unless it had to, that’s why it was said that Draal was the “ace in the hole”
Oh my god, this show's score is everything!
ivanova is always right. one should always listen to ivanova, ivanova is God.
Susan Ivanovna is a beautiful woman
Back in the days when "violating the Constitution" and committing treason were still considered crimes.
They still are as far as I'm concerned.
It was just a get-together of some patriots 🙄
@@ChrisWar666 Just a little Sunday picnic that happened to be on a Wednesday. Inside the primary building of government. Without permission.
@@Brasswatchman You have missed the point, and you are on the wrong side of History.
@@chainsawsubtlety9828I can’t tell if you misunderstand the ironic statement from Brasswatchman or if you are actually pro-Jan 6.
They had some of the best quotes like you pays your money you takes your chances and my father told me never start a fight but finish it.😀😁🤣😆😎
Ahh the recurring quote - "my father told me" - if you read the Scriptwriters Guide JMS uses it in a couple of screen plays - sort of like Aaron Sorkin's "gather ye rosebuds" used in The West Wing and The Newsroom
This is indeed one of my all-time favorite scenes from ANY sci-fi TV series. I will never forget it.
How about a vote? How many believe Claudia to be the hottest woman in SciFi...
Nanā Visitor and Terry Ferrell have my vote.
Babylon 5 the story ranks with the best stories ever told right beside Lord of the Rings
The two best SF series I have ever seen are B5 and 12 Monkeys. If you get the chance to watch 12 Monkeys do so each season is better than the last and the finale is probably the best in any genre. Both completely different but each a work of love and dedication. B5 is more expansive, and 12M is finely wrought like an elegant timepiece. I can't decide which I like better so I won't choose. Also, I'd say The Expanse comes in third but quite a way behind.
3:11 "I hate it when she's right"
You'd never see someone taking a stance against war crimes. We know, the US does it all the time
This will happen one day in the Future, I hope that is not as Insane as in Gundam.
it is happening now!
Funny, I don't recall Trump calling for a ministry of truth to monitor news outlets for conflicting news stories. Obama was the guy that called for that, and even before that it was the Clintons that wanted to shut down opinion media to silence the views of others.
Trump has no actual power. He has a rabid fanbase in the far right wing, which has been in the political wilderness for generations now, but he's too busy making a fool of himself to pose any real danger.
The next great American tyrant will be a left winger who sweeps in with the kind of acclaim the educated elite will never give Trump Hitler has made it impossible for the political right to rally that kind of support. Only the left, with the carte-blanche they've granted themselves among the media and university elite, can really gain the free hand needed to operate tyrannically.
@hagamapama
*Even worse - Trump's "rabid fan base" makes up most of the country.*
*You might as well say "most of Americans have been in the political wilderness for generations now and they support Trump".*
*But Trump has been making a fool of himself boosting the economy and trying to save the country.*
*But I agree the next tyrant will be a left-winger. It might even be Clinton - if the Liberals can convince the majority of Americans (Trump's "rabid fan base") to let in more illegals and make them democrat-voting citizens.*
In Gundam, the side that declared independence is the "Clark" faction, even killing a peaceful leader (Santiago/Zeon Daikun) and installing his deputy (Clark/Degwin Zabi). And very few Zeon actually defect to the Federation.
Ivanaiva is God, just ask her. If you have a problem refer to What I just indicated.
Babylon 5 is like Ukraine
Indeed. Time for Checknya to rebel, to put more pressure on Putin.
There's no real world equivalent to Babylon 5 other than maybe Geneva.
What are you on? I've been living Babylon 5 since the 2014 Coup. And Crimea, the DNR and the LNR did declare their independence.
I kinda wanted that one guy who left to turn and say "im not actually leaving i just really need to take a leak". But anyway its a fantastic piece of writing
An independent space station out in the middle of nowhere is actually a good idea. Especially if very well armed. Switzerland comes to mind. Open to trade but closed to invasion. A place of diplomacy and banking and secrets.
seldon wright Switzerland? Omg your school education must be hilarious 😂
@@hansmeyer7225 aanndd how old are you? I'm in my 70s. I've read, and Lived a lot. Education isn't everything. Especially today. Get some maturity and self education and get back to me.
BELTA LOWDAS RISE UP
As relevant today as ever.
I thought they would have done more with Ivanna's cute right hand man, but he kind of disappears in later episodes.
The defining reason he stayed was because she did. He had such a crush on her. Lol
I agree, I liked that angle a lot. It was a very neat element. The sad thing about Ivanova is that there were so many people who did like her, but it never seemed to line up for whatever reason.
@William Signs He's a credited member of the main cast in season 5, even.
Very cute little thing. Remember that he is a carnivore and that his ancestors were Wolves.
This scene brilliantly acted utterly defines women's role in combat if they step up to the burden and yet is never spoken about ?
Matthew Rowe they got over it.
We will too eventually, just takes time.
This was the 90s. At the time it was okay to have strong female characters without the show banging on about them being female and how significant that was.
@@oenrn Yes. So much better times for everyone. Ivanova, the iconic character, never mentioned once that she was a female in a men's world. Or was surpressed for being a girl, or any of the other nonsence. Progressive storytelling when the story mattered over politics. God, I wish those activists today would look at this and go away in shame.
That 'ace in the hole' was never used during the Shadow War by the way.
Love B5, just finished rewatching it in fact (or at least the first 4 seasons). It just occurs to me however that B5, from that point forward, is a military dictatorship. I don't recall any attempt at creating a civilian government. Maybe Mr. Garibaldi wasn't that off base. (The reimagined Battlestar Galactica did a better job of this, with a civilian government from the very beginning butting heads with the ranking military officer).
Garibaldi does have a point about the situation. That’s why this show was so great; it dealt well with the nuances of these events while maintaining a moral center.
Just noticed a rare jms contradiction. (Seriously, props to how internally consistent he usually is)
"Its our fight, not his"
"Hes our ace in the hole"
Soooo is he fighting for you or not?
And before the flame war starts, im a huge fan too, and maybe thats part of it. You cant really love something w/o accepting the flaws. And despite 90s cg tech and a smallish budget for well, everything else, its still one of the absolute greatest sci fi shows, period, full stop.
_Morally,_ Draal should stay on the sidelines. Practically... well, if it's that or dying, Sheridan is keeping his options open!
Lol and another thing he did show in the story....morally superior groups do sometimes stoop to being "practical" when needs must. Noones above the occasional useful hypocrisy.
No, it's the same logic Sheridan used in the intervention at Earth and with the First Ones; battles are PR. Calling in the aliens is plan B.
he’s protecting the planet and that includes space above it, if he believes that the station is in mortal danger he’ll defend it. Sheridan must have told him that to keep him from being involved but he also knows that it’s inevitable that there’d be intervention if the humans were about to win against the station
it's B5's fight but the Great Machine is also at risk if Clark's troops come near it. Should B5 be overwhelmed by the Clark forces Draal will have to get involved , but Sheridan hopes that won't be the case, as Draal being a Minbari will draw Delenn and her people directly into the conflict.
The planet where the Great Machine is also the refuge for any civiians who might need to leave the station if things get hairy
I can see this happening in real life one day . With things going as thay are .
probably sooner than you think, now.
merloon nope
Shut up.
One of the best B5 episodes ever!
Damn! Delenn calling out all the grifters, fakes and blackmailes suckers in the political class .... at the ends she's thinking "don't make me start calling out names on the Epstein flight list" LOL
The only episode in any show were production,casting ect errors happen and they said **** it might as well create greatness of a bad situation and they surtenly made greatness with this episode
Season 3 of Babylon 5 slaps. The conclusion to this battle was epic.
2:34 Who is the cutie in the background that stayed at her post?
Oh look. 2021 called.
Still better cgi then some of the new stuff in 2023.
I like how all fighter squads are supposed to be out and yet you still pilots hanging around during his speech
I would think that they have about the double the size of the rooster vs the number of fighters, as in a crisis pilots can get tired and exhausted.
So they have fresh pilots ready, or if any gets sick or incapacitated in some way.
If a fighter can be fabricated in a few weeks and a pilot takes months if not yeas to fully train, which are you going to have more of on hand than you technically need>
hagamapama Limited by the number of launch platforms
If they were in the Promenade, they were off duty.
@@SantomPh Off duty when literally mankind has the wall to their backs? Are you serious?
I really wish this story arc didn't feel so relevant now.
It is always relevant, it is unfortunately the human condition.
...holy crayola, I can see it too.
B5 is the Best film in the world I want this on you tube more often
Season 1 to 4 were great but the major let down to B5 was the 5 season
Couldn't really be helped. They felt they had to wrap everything up by the end of season 4 because they were not sure there would be a season 5. When there WAS a season 5, they had mostly run out of stuff to do, and I don't think the storylines for crusade had been decided (or they might have done those inside season5)
I have the box sets and they tell you what happened. The Vorlon war and Earth war were suppose to be separate seasons, but they were told they were getting canceled after season 4. So 4 and 5 got a rewrite to fit one season and halfway into filming got told they were getting 5 but was to late to start changing everything again. The season 5 we got was not originally part of the series.
@@LordTalos72 Yes and no. "Intersections in real time" should have been the season finale of 4, when Sheridan is captured and interrogated by Earth Force. So much of the stuff after that in 4 would have been moved to 5. Thats why some stuff of 5 seems stretched. But a lot of season 5 would have been the same, like the Centauri storyline and the telepath colony storyline. JMS always stated that 5 would be the epilog of a novel, with less action and a chilled down story telling. But most of it would have been the same, just a bit tighter storytelling.
Nicola Sturgeon in a few months.
3:19 Was he crushing on her at all? I can't remember.
Was she, him?
No, they are just comrades and good friends. The looking at each other was because they may never see each other again, but no romantic feelings involved.
Our armed forces personnel should have a choice before getting involved in unjust illegal wars ordered by Governments. If they decide not to fight, then they should be given that right and not face prosecution or persecution. SOLDIERS ARE NOT MACHINES!
All soldiers have a duty to refuse illegal orders - in democratic countries this is part of their training. But you also have a duty to follow legally given orders, and each individual soldier can't decide his own foreign policy - that would just lead to chaos.
***** Well, in countries like the United States, all the soldiers are voluntary - they make that choice when they sign up - except in times where there is a draft. In other countries there is mandatory conscription, but in many you can get out of that if you are a true conscientious objector. If you just disagree with the leadership, meaning you want to pick and choose what wars you fight in, you instead have a choice of voting the leaders out or moving to a different country.
PS: When war happens there is typically no shortage of on-the-spot volunteers. The problem is the lack of *well trained* volunteers, which is why some countries have conscription.
Volunteer or not, strict military discipline is very important in an army - without strict obedience an army cannot function at all.
That being said, every soldier has a duty to disobey any order that violates fundamental moral principles - as established in several court martials, the Nuremberg trials being the most famous, "I was obeying orders" is not an excuse for blatant ethical violations.
oneeyednarn
Even setting aside the secret information that Sheriden had that Clark, formerly the Vice President, had attained the presidency by arranging the assassination of President Santiago, he was taking a stand on the basis of constitutional law. Clark was engaging in acts of war against members of the Earth Alliance, declared martial law over sovereign nations (unlike on Star Trek, Earthgov is not a true world government, there are still nations) and suspended the other branches of Earthgov (legislature and judiciary) in order to place all authority in his own hands.
Military personnel must be mindful that their commander-in-chief does *not* have limitless authority in a constitutional government. Simply because the President issues an order does *not* make it legal. Intelligent soldiers will understand this and recognize that they cannot follow orders that violate basic law. If the President of the United States ordered that the military arrest the members of Congress and bomb cities within U.S. borders, it would be expected that they would refuse. The chain of command only gives so much power before even the highest ranking authority hits the ceiling.
2:43 ivanova "fuck that guy"
I can't blame anyone of these people who left they were afraid..
I love Ivaniva sucks that she left the show :(.
She came back at the very end.
babylon 5 earth
💖
How will staying in their quarters keep them safe? :-\ They'd be as safe as sailors down below an air craft carrier during a battle. Don't worry. Those torpedoes and Kamakaze planes can't hurt you.
cshubs keeps them from being in the way of repair and rescue crews, and away from fights with boarding parties.
Also, it’s a space station, and things happen in space. That everyone has a designated shelter area in case of a hull breach makes sense, and their quarters are likely those designated shelter in place locations.
Lurkers just get spaced, but... always crappy to be poor.
The attackers can't risk to destroy the station. Not with all these alien ambassadors on it. The Earth Alliance might be able to defend itself against the Narn or the Centauri, but not against both. The Minbari would still wipe them out even with the advances of the last 10 years since the Earth/Minbari war. While the minor races aren't a real threat, they could still do some damage military wise. However, them cutting all ties to earth, especially on trading would hurt. There are several huge corporations that have their own treaties with those minor races, which would further hurt business.
Aside from that, the station represents a major investment for which the Minbari put up a lot of money.
Staying in their quarters will keep them safe from troops that might board the station.
Later in this episode a pod containing soldiers breaches the station and B5 security (and the Narn) have to fight them to prevent them from reaching open ground. If those soldiers had reached open ground, you would not want to be wandering around risking getting in the middle of a fire fight.
The quarters are in the furthest circle of the Blue sector. Later against the Shadows people are moved further in the station, even Londo and G'Kar are made to sit on bunk beds.
What would Admiral Adaama say and do?
Probably something very similar given the same situation.
So say we all
Pretty much everything Sheridan did.
1:45 - This is also like the day the UK voted to leave the equally corrupt E.U
Looking at how your beloved Tories are screwing you over, you are certainly Clark-supporting.
The UK was always independent. You've gained nothing.
@@JustPippaNY ooof this aged like milk
@@jack1701e never thought I'd see the UK going through four prime ministers in seven years.
the West coast if Trump gets re-elected.
they really are that deranged
‘Antifa leader betrays his president’. (2260)
And with good reason. Antifa stands for, "Antifacism."
Every time John Sheridan says no, a fascist dies inside
Antifa is a terrorist organisation and you’re part of the problem!
ua-cam.com/video/LAuJ35wDkgM/v-deo.html
I've been saying " no " since 2014.
So just like Trump recently
I will say this my uncal is in the army and has told me but if governments move on there own country then the army will split with the people that don't care and the people that wont fight there own .
Depends on what cause you're fighting for
I'm surprised that Drall didn't kick the earth force ships out of the system. He has such a temper.
Ivanova asked the Captain if he wanted to bring Draal in to the fight, he did not want to. "No, He is our ace up our sleeves".
@@ChannelReuploads9451 I think that Nighthawke meant that he was surprised that Draal didn't do it on his own on general principal. To that I would answer that Draal is too focused on the big picture probably to notice a fight that couldn't affect him.
@@roguishpaladin Draal was in contact with B5 the entire time, so he understood. The EF ships were not attacking the planet, so he would not be involved.
Would love to see a reboot. The story from S2 -S4 follows a great arc with this episode almost at the heart of everything. Could compress S1 into a Galctica style mini series to establish everything - incl Valen - and basically dump S5, was just a bit meh in the main. Also lose the melodrama, could get a bit grating with Sheridan and Delehn but that could just be in the direction. Great characters but sometimes their personal stuff just felt a bit forced.
The designs are total classics, especially the Earth force ships and fighters. Proper Newtonian physics in the design and would love to see up to date graphics that show off that detail.
Wait a second- so Orion and Proxima can declare independence but the DNR and the LNR cannot? JMS's got such adorable double standards.
And what I love is that once again there three. Orion, Proxima, Babylon 5. And three in real life- the Crimea, the DNR and the LNR. Maybe JMS is right and that's the reason the Ukrainian Alamo is still standing?
Clark is Trump
Clark is Hitler. Have yet to see Trump order the deaths of innocent Americans, restrict our freedoms, etc? If anything, the democrats in charge are doing that
@@Excalibur01 HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Another moron suffering from TDS!
Never really seen Babylon 5, maybe i should watch it. *Sees the 1980's graphics* Never mind.
No loss there. I you judge something on something as superficial as outdated special effects (which were ahead of their time back then) you are clearly not mature enough to appreciate the show anyway.
@@AlexJones-ue1ll Not at all, there are far older shows i appreciate but those graphic put 1995 to shame, Original Star Wars graphics were better and they're nearly 20 years older.
You make trash i'll point it out for you :)
@@The_Daily_Tomato Lol I remember watching it at the time thinking the cg was bad but its more about the story. I am used to dodgy special affects from growing up with Dr Who, tripods, blake 7 and hitchhiker! I think they also suffered from low budget like the BBC sci fi.
It's your loss.
@@The_Daily_Tomato yep, as I said. If you arent mature enough, dont watch it.
Apart from calling "graphics" better in Star Wars 20 years earlier makes you sound laughablely moronic as those where practical effects, not "graphics". B5 pushed the CGI for TV into a new direction, you still sound like a spoiled child that only judges something on its looks.
B5 was produced on an extremely low budget per episode (even for its time), and they do need to pay actors as well. Quite a lot of them, in fact. But you only go "Ewwww, this looks bad for my bratty 4k experienced eyes, so it sucks." Go watch Star Trek Discovery then. You might be able to even follow that story garbage you get offered there.
Kalifornia
President Clark reminded me of Trump
More like Obama
Wade Coshatt how so?
Obama never claimed he wouldn’t respect the results of an election he didn’t win.
Kind of a rejection of the Republic there by Trump...
That said, even if the Russians are involved, they aren’t going to hand over cool tech like the Shadows did.
You know, young idiot liberals have been treating every Republican president since Nixon like he was the worst man in the universe. It happened to Reagan, both Bushes, and now to Trump. Trump is not a good President. But if young Liberals keep demonizing literally every man to the right of Jimmy Carter, it's getting harder and harder to take them seriously, they become like the boy who cried wolf.
The result is going to be, because you morons can't keep it in your pants, when the real tyrant comes, someone calls him out as a tyrant we're just going to assume he's another of you lot and ignore them like we do you -- until it's too late.
The Readers' Digest version: Morons like you are squandering the credibility we're going to NEED to have a chance when the real tyrant comes, and YOU NEED TO STOP.
hagamapama which is exactly what Trump is relying on because conservatives have been conditioned to treat any criticism of their candidate as crying wolf.
That’s the narrative that conservatives have been trained to repeat, and they will blindly repeat it long after they see people disappearing.
It’s not “crying wolf” when there’s an actual wolf.
If you didn't want conservatives to become conditioned to treat any criticism of their candidate as crying wolf, you should probably stop crying wolf every time the Republican Party fields a candidate.
I mean you guys were doing your thing even with MITT FREAKING ROMNEY. The ultimate milquetoast center right east coast cardboard cutout moderate Republican whose only actual claim to Conservative values was being Mormon.
That makes it awful hard to take you seriously when the guy you're lashing at now is the Clown Prince of Twitter, an utter buffoon and career Democrat who won his election mostly because the voter base was fed up with the blandness of the last few mainstream GOP candidates.
The only way the Republicans can field a candidate you guys don't try to punt into orbit is when they use an utterly bland cardboard cutout of a man like Romney who is completely unappetizing to his own voter base. And even that didn't work because when Romney was too bland to criticize, you went after his campaign instead. And you saw what repeatedly attempting to accede to the demands of academia and literati did to the existing Republican establishment. They're stuck with a protest candidate in office for at least 4 years.
At a certain point you have to concede the same thing to right wing politicians that they feel they're conceding to you -- the right to be wrong in public without being directly compared to the devil. The conservatives went through that phase and have mostly gotten over it. The liberals are now stuck in the same place the Conservatives were in the 50s, slowly losing the culture war and lashing out and attributing their version of devilish influences to what they feel is the reasons why.
At least the Conservatives have an excuse, they're a moralist party first and firemost. The party of tolerance is doing a piss poor job of tolerating dissenting worldviews from where I sit.
Or you can prove me wrong. Show me one single Republican president not named Ronald Reagan who wasn't absolutely excoriated by the media while he was in office. You can't do it. The closest is probably George HW Bush, a watered-down Conservative who squeaked through his time in office basking in the glow of the collapse of the USSR and a successful war in Iraq.
Sounds like something Joe would do. He seems to legitimately hate this country.
I love this episode it's so sad in ways like the narn's doing the human wave attack against the boarding troops and being cut down like that gets me ever time I watch it
Katie Adams I agree with you on that