Fast Easy ECM FAN MOTOR Troubleshooting! ECM Blower Motors with Spade Terminals!
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- Опубліковано 18 вер 2024
- In this HVAC Training Video, I show How to Quickly Diagnose an ECM Constant Torque Blower Fan Motor. Its actually a pretty easy process but many techs get overwhelmed because of inexperience in working on them. I Show Testing Methods and Multimeter Use while Troubleshooting. I show ECM Fan Motor Types to Distinguish Between Testing Procedures. Supervision is needed by a licensed HVACR Tech while performing tasks as Experience and Apprenticeship garners Wisdom and Safety.
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⚠️ Disclaimer:
Information in this video is intended for educational purposes only. Any work related to the topics in this video should be performed by licensed technicians or by apprentices under the supervision of licensed technicians. AC Service Tech LLC is not responsible for any possible damages or injuries caused by the use or misuse of any information provided.
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Great video Mr. Craig. I've learned a lot from you just buy subscribing and watching!! This is really a free education and you are greatly appreciated for opening doors. Little do you know, the opportunity that you give breaks a poverty curse for some of us. This is way deeper than just a UA-cam channel.✌✌
Well said.
Good diagnostic.
I had to check my daughter's Carrier AC on the the roof last week. I used to service HVAC ages ago. First time I ever ran into the ECM motor. I was surprised. I had even brought a trusty spare 3 speed blower motor I still had in the garage. One look and I said: Nope, this motor won't do.
Blower motor runs initially, then stops after a minute and a half. Checked for my line voltage at the harness, then realizing it was a DC variable speed motor, using the schematic, I found my common and hot 24v on the harness. A quick check on Y/T for confirmation about the type of motor and conclusion about the module failure, I decided against a non OEM and got one from a HVAC vendor.
I'm getting too old to handle a blower assembly on the pitched roof so talked my daughter's boyfriend through the repair. The shingles on the pitched roof were so hot, the glue on the soles became soft and the soles started to come loose on my sneakers. He brought it down to the patio and I had him do the disassembly, put the new motor in and then reinstall the blower into the package unit. Hit the thermostat and fan works, cold air in her house.
You can convert it over to a PSC motor.
Clear precise video great job. when checking power to the unit check between Line and grounding too because that what kill you. There's case that no power between L and N but there's power between L and grounding, single phase 120v to grounded anyway.
Thank you for your positive feedback on the video, and your safety reminder is absolutely crucial. You're absolutely right; when working with electrical systems, safety should always be a top priority!
You’re the best! Thank you for all your educational videos
Glad you enjoyed it!
You are a great teacher I love what you teaching us.
That is so encouraging to hear!
Great teaching Mr.Craig, I have your books in English and Spanish and I’m waiting for the one for electrical components Troubleshooting thanks Sir.
Angel, thanks for your encouragement!
Love this channel, great video for guys in the field .!!
Hello from the great state of Michigan
Thanks Ted! New Jersey!
Never heard it called a chair adapter. I like it.
Yeah that is the technical term for when the adapter is bent that way, thanks!
@@acservicetechchannel imagine the laughter when you ask the community college HVAC instructor why they call it a "butt connector". Nomenclature can be fun kids!
@@acservicetechchannel Do you have a link to the chair adapters? I cannot find them on google. Thank you!
Great video. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks a lot!
Another great video thanks
Thanks a lot Mohammad!
Hi thanks for your time and effort.
My fan blower runs good when i turn the unit off for 1 hours or more, if i let it run on auto the a/c compressor starts but the fan blower doesn't why is that? A/C maintain temperature and some time works for hours with no problem then it act up, so i turn it off let it rest for a bit and i turn it back up.
Thank you
I have same issue? How did you resolve the issue ?
awesome videos as always....
Thank you for sharing! 👍👍
Glad you liked it Roy!
That’s fine if you have a 16 pin, 24v controller. Unfortunately, there are other options available for these ECM motors. I am currently working on a motor with a 4 pin communication cable with only 3 wires, and controller. Can’t find any information about what I’m supposed to look for as far as communication? I did have a 29-30 dcv so I’m going with that since the industry doesn’t bother to communicate wtf they are doing with their “new technology” for the poor suckers who are tasked with fixing this mess.
Thank you so much for your knowledge. One more great video. You are the best!
Thanks a lot Jonathan!
Wondering how to know difference of if you need to replace the blower motor and module together vs. just needing to replace the ECM module?
Thanks for teaching. I learn alot thanks
So glad to hear that!
Very nice video. The thing I don't like is the very high cost of an ECM motor compared to a PSC motor. Any savings of the ECM motor is thrown out the window if you have to replace it. Also, can a PSC motor be wired into the ECM system to run the system in an emergency? Many thanks.
They can be, You have to install several control relays to control what speed the motor runs at.
@@bradencole8850 Thanks
In a pinch you could run a psc motor off the door switch 120v but fan would always be on.
Yeah thanks Braden for answering that question, absolutely using 12amp or 8 amp fan relays or even general purpose relays, thanks!
Great job, thank you brother. You are so talented
What if it runs nonstop motor won’t turn off on furnace it’s a ecm motor I unhooked all the low voltage wires and still turned on wouldn’t shut off then I took the 24v wire going to the blower motor off the board and still kept running
Really enjoy your videos. They are very helpful. I don't get to do much on HVAC and I use your videos to help me.
Thanks Roger!
Awesome job thank you so much
Great video, clear to understand.
Thanks a lot!
Very informative video! Thanks for sharing!
are there cases where the unit will read 24v on more than one speed at a time?
Hey Craig,
I was wondering if you had an answer to a question. I'm new to the service side of HVAC, I've worked as a Commercial installer for the past five years. Now I work as a Final Quality Inspector in the residential side. I was in a house just the other day with a Goodman gas furnace with the electronic dip switches on the circuit board. I was adjusting the AC1 fan speed taps so that I could bring down the static pressure as well get better airflow with my Balometer. The thing was, my static pressure or airflow wasn't changing as I was adjusting the speeds whether it was in fan speed (1) or fan speed (9). Is this common for a brand new system. I know that just in my short time of working with these units if you have these units on fan speed 9, it sounds like a jet taking off. Hopefully this makes sense, I'm in the learning stage, this was just something that I was curious about. Thanks
I have the broad-ocean motor. My AC quit today while I was at work. Came home and diagnosed it to find that when calling for heat the blower motor kicked on but not when calling for cool. I moved the speed tap from 2 (medium) to 3 (high) and it got the blower motor to kick on and cool the house. My question is, is this ok to do? And also is there any repair or do i just have to replace the whole motor. Thanks
What makes these ecms go bad so much? I am about to be on my 3rd under warranty as soon as they get it in and can get back here.
The controller is probably sensitive to transients from nearby lightning strikes.
Frequent lightning areas should have transient supressors in the main panel.
My motor continuously runs, even removing the low voltage plug. When running without the low voltage plug, each pin gives between 16-24VAC. This mean that the ECM is bad correct?
I’m having same problem. What was your solution?
@@cutactiontake9I had to replace the motor. When it keeps running without the low voltage plug connected means that the ecm is bad.
I have an X13 motor, all power wires/supply is good. I can’t get it turn off, I removed the 2 signal/trigger wires, still won’t shut off. Only way it shuts off is when I pull the power disconnect. Bad ECM right? Which means I need a new motor?
Thanks for your video. What would be nice to know is what happens when the blower sticks on. Regardless of any 24VConnections, our blower runs continuously. How do we test for that?
I'd like to know this too.
I took the 2 speed taps off the x13 in my unit but the blower still runs. Is there a way to test the motor for that without taking it out of the housing?
Did you ever find a solution? I am dealing with this currently
Me too
Thanks for the video
I have the last motor on the video but when I check the común and cold ;heat and fan don’t have a 25 volt that’s meant the motor is bad or the control board
The broad blower on a goodman electric hvac combo won't shut down and the thermostat is good so I'm thinking the end bell control module is bad, what say you?
So is the module a drive module like for a frequency drive .
I have the opposite problem the blower won’t turn off
Me too!
If it's not running, how do you know whether the motor or the module is bad?
Disconnect the fan motor wires from the control board and connect them directly to a proper power source. If it's a 120v ac motor, then connect it to a 120 vac line.
Probably a stupid question, but if I've already figured out that the blower motor is the problem, how do i know if the motor is an 825 or 1075 rpm model? I can't find anything to match part numbers to the rheem website from the information panel on the main ac into.
What does it mean when the blower motor is constantly on high speed with the signal wires completely removed?
Thanks again for the videos!
🥃🥃🍺🍺🍺🎳⛳
Stay safe.
Retired (werk'n)keyboard super tech. Wear your safety glasses!
Thank you very much!
I have my fan coil module does not works perfect ,ECM2.5 1/2HP Ge ,do you have one for sell ? pls.
where did you get those R & G from the thermostat wires? you dont show that.
What if your not getting a signal at the motor but do have a call for it coming from the thermostat.on an airhandler
Hi I was wondering what I can do to fix my problem that I have with my ECM module? In the last seven years I have gone through three of them! the tech will never help me! or suggest a better solution!!! I know I should change techs and will, can I change the hole motor to a non ECM blower motor or what do you suggest thanks! new follower!!!!
I have a Carrier AC that’s 5 years old. Two days ago, I noticed that the blower motor was not turning off. My blower motor doesn’t turn off even after I removed the two speed control wires (blue and white). I’ve removed the thermostat and I left the green wire hanging at both ends ( at the thermostat and where it connects to the grey wire), and I still get 27vac. When I turn the power on via the breaker, the blower motor starts right away, even with the two speed control wire not connected. Does this indicate my blower motor has a bad module? Thanks for any help.
What was the fix?
The blower motor was bad. Fortunately for me, the warranty was still in effect and the blower was replaced. @@andreiglesias5876
Me too did you have to change the module?
The Fix: Fan Blower motor was bad. Luckily, with just 20 days of my 5 year warranty left, it was covered.
@@MrAlwest77 Was it your motor or module? The module does easy come off from the motor for replacement!
Only one speed should be energized on the blower motor ?
Yes correct!
Thanks for sharing this video. Really appreciate your hard work on helping every technician out there by sharing your knowledge. Thanks again
What if the fan runs but when the compressor turns on the fan shuts off. Have low and and voltage to the motor
How would you go about troubleshooting a blower motor that does turn on but is running slow? If I reset the breaker it will start off going really fast and blow air through the vents like it should but after 5 min or so it will drop back down to going slow and I won't feel any airflow out of the vents
Bypass the control board (wire the blower motor directly to its power source. If the fan speed stays the same and doesn't decrease after 5 minutes or so, the the problem is on the control board. You might want to to swap out the fan motor run capacitor. I know that electrolytic Capacitors can develop intermittent problems that only manifest when they increase in temperature. I'm guessing the non-polarized types you see in air conditioners might do it as well.
Resetting the breaker? If it is tripping the breaker the fan motor could be defective and is drawing too much current. Check the resistance of the fan motor winding.
@@Bruce_Wayne35I have a carrier unit with one of these gentec 1/2hp on the motor and it runs continuously even after the temperature is reached I have to turn off the breaker for the air handler just to shut the AC off any ideas? is the ECM module bad how should I test?
@@cutactiontake9 I'm not an HVAC technician, but the control board is responsible for cutting the blower motor and off. So you probably need a new control board.
@@cutactiontake9 If you do order a control board, don't order it from Sears Parts Direct. They have a very bad reputation.
I the blower motor electrical drawing one resistor using what is the purpose of resistor.
Why would you not test the module to see if it’s the actual motor that’s bad or the module?
Not saying your incorrect just curious what your opinion is.
Modules are hard to find and about the same price as a motor. I found a motor cheaper than the module so in my case it made sense. Mine will be here tomorrow.
Wait, if you have high voltage going to the motor and you're also getting low voltage to the module, how does that mean your module is bad? It's not possible that the motor still bad?
It still can go bad intermittently. 9 times out of 10 it's the module, but yes the motor can go bad as well.
If the motor does not turn on if it has the high voltage power and the low voltage speed signal, then that means it is bad.
@@acservicetechchannel how do you know motor is bad if module is good. I confused by this video.
Goodman 80% furnace. Have an issue with furnace the blower motor is getting power 24v and high voltage but it's ramping up and down quickly and it vibrates. Is that a bad blower motor or could be circuit board?
Module / motor
How about some free advice?
Electric furnace started to run constantly, heat would cycle on and off per the thermostat, but the only way to stop it running, was at the fuse box. A "tech" came out, said the control board was bad, needed to be replaced.
Great, I bought and installed a new control board, and no change.
I could tear the whole thing down, but it is in a wet, lower crawl space, with about 18'' max, of space.
I have researched the holy hell out of this thing, because to me, it just seems like a relay problem.
Trouble is, sometimes docs will say relay is on control board, others may say separate relay, others wont list any form of relay, and this is from the manufactures website, mind you, and they will not give any tech support to a home owner.
I can see what looks like a relay inside the control cavity, but I would have to literally tear down the entire unit, just to even ID what is in there.
So, any advice, other than the obvious of tearing it down?
If you see my post above my X13 is stuck on high. I have to flip the breaker to shut it off. Remove low voltage and it still runs just to be clear. Mine uses a sequencer not a board. Point is the the module is fried. It sounds like you have the same issue. Remove the low voltage and if it still runs replace the motor. The modules are about as much as the motor if you can even find one.
@@scotts4125 I removed the 2and 4 speed taps and it still runs. Also x13.
Is there any chance it could still be a relay somewhere else?
Mine also doesn't seem to have a control board anywhere that I can see
@@chuckcraigs9310 No you have a bad motor period or more specifically a bad module. X13's don't need a board or a cap that was one of the selling points. The module takes care of that. Match your motor HP and buy a rescue motor. I bought mine from Supplyhouse and it works perfectly. Once you removed the speed taps it's only getting 120/240 you removed the control circuit proving the module is stuck on. The rescue motor will figure out on it's own the direction of spin the first time you turn it on . The whole thing took me about 45 minutes. I also spent about 20 minutes getting the blower wheel off the shaft. Watch Anti-DIY how he gets them off without a puller. Mine wouldn't turn past the flat on the shaft so I had to back and forth it with a little banging but it finally came off. That was 20 minutes of the 45 minutes. Best of luck. About 2 weeks later same AC the cap went. I had those on hand. Keep those around. I use Amrads and also keep a spare contactor.
@@scotts4125 good advice- thanks for the input- Did you ever try to look inside the module and see if there was something in there that went bad that could be changed out?
@@chuckcraigs9310 The newer modules are potted which means they fill the board with epoxy so everything is underneath that. So I didn't bother looking. I actually saved the motor for a spare.
Nobody addreses what voltages should be coming from a motor choke on a miller furnace?
So a question this is 24 volt ac or DC and are you using pulse with modulation to increase the frequency
Lol every motor in this vid is 24v A/C controlled. Every motor in this vid is an X13/ constant torque motor. These X13 motors only have multiple speed taps (higher the #, higher the RPM).
These motors have a soft start but they ramp quick to the RPM based on 24v A/C input to the speed tap.
Edit: 240v A/C is continuous. 24v A/C control is based off tstat (yes you can apply 24v A/C to #1 terminal & as long as 240v (or 120v if a furnace) these motors will fire. 24v A/C is the control side. Switching characteristics are internal to module...no external relay needed.
@@haljordan9160I have a carrier unit with one of these gentec 1/2hp on the motor and it runs continuously even after the temperature is reached I have to turn off the breaker for the air handler just to shut the AC off any ideas? is the ECM module bad how should I test?
Hey Craig, would you please give us a link to those little chair adapters you are using here? I've tried looking for them on Amazon, but they're not being sold there.
Thanks.
Try appliance parts suppliers
They say to check to see if the fan is free spinning and not binding, but didn’t say what to do if it is binding. So what should I do if it’s binding?
If it is binding up while not energized (or calling to run from the thermostat) then most likely the bearings are seized. If it spins freely while de-energized but binds up upon call to run, the windings are most likely bad. Either way, sounds like a new motor is needed.
@@dgapp76
That’s what I thought, thanks.
Do they make a 14 pin adapter for testing?
in the last year i've had 5 carrier ecm blower motors run but at lower cfm causing high limit trips on systems that ran perfectly fine earlier in the year. clean filters and decent static loads. other than doing a cfm calculation is there a way to troubleshoot that in the service to reduce callbacks?
Same here, 3 carrier performance ecm motors in the same neighbourhood with the same code 33 high limit trips
Temp rise
Like Rocko99 said, you can do Temp rise or tesp to determine airflow. If there is high static pressure, the blower could get damaged due to the high current it takes to reach the programmed torque. Nothing else can really be done to know if the motor is going to fail. You could add a surge protector to the furnace but that will only protect it from lightning strikes or problem voltage, thanks.
I have a 2 Y.O. Carrier that's stuck on high. I have a rescue motor on the way. Went with a U.S. Motor instead of the X13. We will see what happens. My smaller unit has a Broad Ocean ECM so far that's OK also 2 years old.
@@scotts4125 we've had 2 more fans die in the last couple months system's both around 3 years old wonder if there was a bad run of motors
So my blower won’t shut off after the temperature is satisfied what should I check ?
I've got that same issue on a Rheem RH2V unit. Thermostat can be turned off, and the fan just kicks on by itself and maybe runs for 30 seconds, maybe 5 minutes, or doesn't shut off at all unless you flip the breaker. Sad that it's only a not quite 5 year old unit that was fairly expensive.
Hi Craig, can't appreciate enough your excellent and hard work , I'm having a weird situation, Customer has an air handler, blower motor gave up, no problem , got the same motor and installed it, but now the breaker flips after that motor runs in 3 sec , blower has a belt and a pully, motor sticker says 16 amps , motor run free out the unit 17 amps , and when installed it reads 32 amps and flips the breaker , what the heck im missing here???i adjusted the pully to get the lowest speed ,and still the same problem,, blower wheel spins freely !! Power is 115 volts(120) do I have a defective blower? It's brand new from carrier.
I've noticed that these modules fail at a higher rate on horizontal right handed air handler applications, where the blower motor sits on the bottom.
Do you have a theory of why that is?
@@justanotherhuman1865 I heard that moisture gets in easier, not sure......
My motor just kind of rocks back and forth trying to start but wont kick all the way in and go.. Any thoughts?
bad ECM
I'm only getting 120 v on harness for a 230 volt
What is wrong.
i have everything i need voltage wise and my motor spins freely but when i turn on the fan, it spins really slow. what is my problem?
Is your issue resolved? If yes, how it got resolved?I have same issue , all multimeter reading are correct but motor runs very slow and not able to push air from vent
@@manishpatel9248 bad ECM. Replace motor.
What if I'm not getting 24v?
Can ECM itself go bad but the blower motor is good?
Yes. The module isn’t always able by itself though.
yes
Got one running constantly, it was the module .fyi.
Have 29 volts and the blower motor is running, the blower motor is fine! Lol! Let me tell you if the blower motor us running, it's fine!!! No need for all the other bs!!
Molex leads
Need a vid on how replace these stupid ecm motors to the reliable old school psc motors…
My blower cuts on then back off
ECM blower motors are the worst thing since poly b, a couple bucks energy saving for a 1500 blower motor replacement, you'll never recover your energy savings
Reliability is more important to me than a minor increase in efficiency.
You sound like Kermit the frog 😂
Ha ha, not the first to say that!!!
Great video thanks
My blower motor os not running
I Checked 110v and 24v on the wires and read good
Is there a reset button on ecm motor
My Furance blower motor info
PN 20511017
ECM 2.3
ROT CCW AMPS 11/7 RPM 1050
Dear Lord just buy a zebra
you are going too fast, there are missing steps here, you should start more from basic steps for less knowledge people
I have a nortek hvac unit. They use the ECM blower motor. It lasted about a year and a half. $500 for a replacement motor. Just the motor. There is no way to change to a different blower motor without changing the entire unit or the controler board. These ECM motors are JUNK. We need to boycot all havc manufacturers until they switch back to motors that work. My old unit lasted 28 years. The nortek unit was installed about a year and a half ago.
It's the department of energy the ones responsible for the new mandates. Like ecm motors and getting rid of your gas stove at home. Now contractors are required to give all your information name, address phone number with the New heater /ac system being installed in your home . Nation wide if contractor doesn't provide that information then they black ball that person or company from buying equipment nation wide.