Top 5 Cafe Racer Mistakes Made by Beginner
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- Опубліковано 24 лип 2024
- In this video I talk about the top 5 mistakes made by beginners when building and starting Cafe Racers, based on my own experience.
They are:
1. A complicated build
from either taking on a complicated motorbike
a complicated vision
or a motorbike that needs too much work for a beginner.
2. Buying a motorbike under false pretences
When you see a motorbike advertised at 90% complete but it turns out to have a lot more missing.
3. Rushing the build
So cutting more than you need off the frame without thinking first
or stripping the motorbike and not knowing where things go
4. Cutting costs
and putting your safety at risk
5. Giving up
and not completing your build.
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Filmed with Canon 70D
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With 50mm 1.4 lens
amzn.to/2rXLzAk - Авто та транспорт
I once built a Yamaha RD 400 cafe racer, removing all excess brackets and stuff. I found out two of those brackets are motor mounts. Think twice, cut once.
Indeed.
ua-cam.com/video/Glfq4B5w-rY/v-deo.html
ouch
I'm not laughing at you, I'm laughing out of discomfort because I know that's something I would do.
Yeeks...hope you had are a good welder...
MEASURE TWICE ! CUT ONCE ! words to live by
I know, I used to frown when my dad used to say it to me. But it's true
hoggath hogg in Russian we say measure seven times cut once. 7 is a good number.
genius
Makes 2 of us been factory biking all my life am 60 and looing forward to MY 1st. CAFE' Also ! & yes this is cool and informative to the MAXX !
I follow that rule kinda, only I measure till im sure. So i measure like 10 times🤣😂
In regards to the disassembling thing, I would recommend, if you do disassemble the bike completely, to label absolutely everything and take pictures as you go. It will make reassembly much easier.
Definitely.
Nah....ul remember.....and ul even remember safely storing "that bolt" under the 4th box behind the pike of plastic boxes to the left of the green box behind the hoover
Buy a pack of zip-loc bags, such as freezer bags etc. Take a picture of the parts you're taking off while they're still in place, and bag the groups of parts up as you dismantle them. write what they are, or other things you might need to know when reassembling on the front of the bag. Cable tie stuff together so you know how it's supposed to go.
Stops you losing the small bits
Stops everything going rusty while it sits in your shed for years waiting to go back together.
Stops you (well, me anyway) from nicking bits for other projects.
A bit OCD I know, but it works.
I just subscribed dreegz but have taken some great information from your build videos over the last year as I'm building my first bike, nearly there now. It's a 1979 Suzuki gs 400 brat style scrambler and as a result of people like yourself putting information out there gives newbies like me the confidence to fulfil a lifelong ambition. I can honestly say I'm addicted to it and have had loads of head scratching moments, doubt, fuck ups etc but I've found a way every time. I just hope the wheels go round when I've finished it! Big respect pal.
Dave Lupton good luck with your build
Amazing,, I'm glad that these videos give you the determination to just go for it. Good luck getting the wheels going around ;)
Did you get it done?
No 1...dont clap into your mic 😂😉
You are doing great !I am building my 1st. have garage need welder and lift along with new work bench . YOU ARE VERY INFORMATIVE AND A LOT OF HELP , Good Job !!! I now have even more confidence and am looking forward to first CAFE'
Glad you're doing videos. Not only are you giving really good advice, but also presenting it well. It's so hard to find a decent video out there that visually looks good. I'm going to be starting my build next winter. Suzuki too. These videos are helping me out a great deal. Thanks so much and keep up the good work man.
Fantastic to hear. Good luck with your build when you get your bike and thanks for the positive comment
Well said. Insightful, valuable, advice. Thank you !
Thanks for watching & commenting
Nice catch @ 1:47! I'm working on and attempting to document my first build on my channel, and might be guilty of number 1. I am mostly confident that I can complete my vision, but the amount of work is a bit overwhelming at times so I also have to keep my spirits up to avoid number 5. My work on the project has stalled out a bit since I have been required to spend more time on some work related stuff, but I am jumping back in now and channels like yours are helping to keep me motivated. Thanks for that
Thanks, I saw it go from the corner of my eye. We're all guilty of these mistakes, even after doing these for years. Stick to avoiding no. 5 and you'll do great.
Really enjoy your videos bud, i have watched your build all the way through so far. I don't have myself a bike yet but hopefully this year!
Thank you for watching, if this is the year for you go for it. Good luck searching for your bike
worth a watch! Awesome video and awesome information. I just never miss a video from you.
Amazing, glad to hear you appreciate them, and thanks for your comment
dreegez thanks to you for sharing such information 😇 you'll surely hit 1,000,000 subscribers really soon.
Gosh, that would be a dream, I'll settle for a handful more
dreegez some things are never sufficient. I hope the best for you. All the very best wishes to you.
Thanks Scott RC and Dreegez. I will post it on You tube when it's finished. Shouldn't be too long. I'm chuffed to little mint balls how it's looking so far!
Cool, keep us updated
man, you made a humankind favor doing this video!!! Thankyou a looooooot!!!
Thanks for watching
Nice vídeo my friend. I'm trying to build a simple cafe racer bike from a 150cc. Just because I can't afford anything else and it's simple for me for start learning. 💪
sir, I really wanna build one for a long time now. I really cannot afford to buy a motorcycle even a used one. I am so inspired by your videos. thank you sir
Thanks for watching and hopefully one day you'll be able to have your own build. All the best
Legend video's mate. Found you channel a while ago and watched all of the video's while I was working offshore and dreaming of my next bike. You have given me some great ideas and options to get started designing and really appreciate it! Have some time to get the design right and then build early next year! Keep it up and can't wait for the next videos!
Brilliant, that's the fun part of the build where you imagine the endless opportunities you can do with it.
Did you build smthn?
Thanks for your advice. I'm beginner in south korea. Now, I am making my first custom bike yamaha virago750. but now i was had some problem. But your video gave me courage. I could not understand it because of the poor translation, I will not give up. thank you.
I'm glad my video helped, I'll look into the translation of the video so it's more correct for future
Sage advice. Keep the good info and videos coming
Thank you, will do, a video every Friday
Litterally only needed the last price of advice. Thank you!
Gay
# 6 thinking your going to get all the money back you put into it when you sell.
Seth Adam if its a decent job then why the fuck not
Keep exacting parts records and exact hours you "invest". If you make anything above cost it will probably be minimum wage or less, even for a "decent job". But go ahead and try, but do it for the joy not the money. Can't say how much I laugh when I see a bike or car selling for... say $4000 and the ad also says $10k "invested" LOL, obvious many folks don't know an "investment" is supposed to earn money not loose.
Jhonny Goodboy Nope, forget it
This isn't true at all, I bought my cb750 for $600 and it will take $1000 to get it exactly how I want it, and I can sell for $2000+
@@jeffreymoffitt4070 That's not a build... that's a repair!
Just about to buy a yamaha an '83 yamaha xj500 your vids are super helpful and encouraging man! Thanks so much!
Great stuff, enjoy the build
@@forthebold I'll probably be asking a few questions and commenting on older posts :)
Do you know somebody that he made a cafe-racer with SUZUKI BANDIT 1200? (+-k5). Thanks a lot
i got my gs750 in boxes whne i vought it. got it together and running in a few days. now im doing my bobber build with it. using custom made bolt on parts i make as i go along
Excellent, enjoy the build
Working on a Honda gl1100, it’s a huge bike with a blown head gasket but making good progress !
Best of luck on it and enjoy.
here in australia cafes are dam near imossible to get roadworthy after you chop them. get a rego first then chop it
farawaydave
Hey mate i just got a
81 xv750 it had no wheels,subframe or
wireing loom.
I thought it would be ok because i wanted to build a cafe. so how hard do you think it will be to get on the road with rego and roadworthy
P;s i living in Victoria
Ed Dean have a look on the vicroads website they should have all the info on there
+Ed Dean I've heard that Australia can be tough. From my experience with cost, the best bikes to work from are near complete. I regret buying my GS as that cost me about 5 times more to buy the missing parts.
For The Bold - dreegez
Thanks for the reply
I come cross your channel by random and i just subscribe i hope to more good vid's like this one.
The funny part to my build is that most parts will be coming from America because its cheaper than buying them in Australia.
Australia is such a nanny state it's almost illegal to hurt yourself unless you're playing sport of course.
Great tip. Thanks.
Good advice. Great video. I live in Mexico.
Hi Mexico
Great Video. Very informative . Quick question. I was wondering what Brand Jacket you are wearing? Reason I ask, is The Collar is very nice and you dont find this on many Leather jackets.
This one is Superdry
that's nsu 175 at #2. i have one and made al mistakes, mentioned her on it, lol..
Recording everything with video when taking bike apart sounds like a smart tip!
Sure is
Great video thanks mate
Thank you
I am currently building a 1981 gl500 café racer, trying to decide on the taillights and license plate combo. Any recommendations ?
All depends with what restrictions or requirements your country has
just picked up a yamaha tx500 to turn into a cafe racer. its all taken apart and in boxes and we have no clue what anything does and have never worked on a bike before. I cant find much on it, do you have any recommendations where to start?
Just take each step as it comes. And use this channel for any inspo.
After having passed my full licence and buying a VX800 (I love it!), I am taking my little GN125 and turning it into something... Possibly cafe racerish? Just rewatching this video, and your how to design videos, looking for ideas. So far i have been stripping the bike, nothing major, just pulling bits and bobs off like the seat, airbox, mudguard and tank (all of which i have done before and know how they go back on).
Not made any serious plans on how i'm going to modify the frame and front end yet, so i have left the frame alone for now (measure twice...).
It's a bike i know well having ridden/ worked it for 8 months, and while i know it's really not going to be a true racer or worth much after i've modified it (or before for that matter), it's a simple place to start being a single cylinder, and if i succeed i will be dead proud of myself!
Thanks for the encouragement and advice Dreegez, and hopefully i can learn from your experience!
Congrats on your test. Just enjoy the build on your GN125, doesn't matter what anything is worth, the experience is priceless and at the end of it you have a bike that only YOU have. ;) Good luck.
hey what if I wanna build a cafe racer and a brat mixture and that too from scratch what will it cost to me in india and what engine will u refer to use
Sorry I have no idea for cost in India, it could be as little or as much as you want it to be.
thx man it realy helped me😊
No problem.
I'm stuck on handlebars! I have a 1980 Honda cm200t Twinstar. It has a reasonably fat/wide gas tank (around 12"). I'd like to do something like clubman or mustache but I don't know if it'll fit right. I've been measuring but I"m still hesitant. Do you have any suggestions? I'd like to have a cafe-ish look but I don't want to be uncomfortable. Thanks!
I usually go with clip on bars but that's a personal preference. Clears the gas tank.
I feel like clip-ons will have me laying on the tank. I'm thinking of getting a set of clubmans and reversing the position. Won't be as "cafe" looking as I'd like but it'll still get me away from the baby apes that are on there now and still have a sloped and cleaner look.
That definitely is the downside to clips ons is that it put you in that lower position, your solution sounds a good one.
A tips for the nr 5. Dont get it right. Get it running. Do not bite more than you can chew. That is how you kill a dream with an never ending build. If you do not love the build itself of course.
not giving up on my first bike
74 cb125
seems like a vacuum leak!
also fast battery drain.
Vacuum leak is a good starting point, one step at a time.
Just got a 1980 cx 500 for $850US. I'm first going to mostly restore it since it runs but it's real ugly and had a large broken wind fairing. I think maybe in a couple years I might go cafe racer or something, but I'm still learning about bikes and since this bike is similar to one my dad had when I was a kid (RIP 6 years) I want to enjoy the originality first.
Best of luck.
Hi, so I want to build my own as well. But after watching this, I question myself. What is a much simpler bike to work on? Do you have examples?
Some bikes are easier than others like frames etc. The GS550 is an easy frame. But I think in terms of overall easy build it’s how good the donor bike is to start with.
I'm extremely interested in cafe racers, mostly the creativity behind it. I know barely anything about motorcycles and how they operate...striping a bike and putting it back together seems daunting. Where should I begin? How can I make my first project as easy as possible based on my skills and knowledge?
Best way would be to learn as you go. take small bits off time after time, get to know your bike, watch videos, read manuals and record your self so you can play back the teardown and work in reverse.
Great advice here . Well in
Thanks
Don't give up! Don't give up! Audentes Fortuna Luvat!
Definitely, never
I love your channel but one thing has bothered me since I first checked out your channel; What's the song in your intro...?
Alive and amplified by the Mooney Suzuki
This can apply to all builds regardless if motorized or not, farming, growth dope, replacing parts on the car itself, your life, cooking, fishing, hunting
Indeed
@@forthebold just getting taller shocks and knobbies to start mine off
Thanks for all the inspiration!
You're welcome. I'm glad it's inspirational to you.
Thank you sir.
Thanks for watching
Ive been watching your videos so I can learn from your mistakes.
A BIG mistake is to have Jenifer Lopez and Pitbull in your 'best songs' playlist on UA-cam, Ouch..
Oh jeez... I didn’t even realize, I was young once. 😅
Ha. That old excuse ;)
They are gone. Forever 😅 I like your work man, keep it up.
👍
I am looking at a Honda CL350 as my first bike project. Supposed to be all there with a working engine but needs assembling. CL350 good choice for a restore?
My dream bike, I love the CL 350, such a beautiful looking bike with characteristics of a scrambler. Although as a tip I think original stock CL350s will be very valuable soon. They fetch a decent price at the moment.
This is what it looks like, and apparently the engine went, so it comes with a working replacement engine 22000miles on it and the engine is out of the frame now. postimg.org/image/3olf0p11b/
That is beautiful, I love that orange tank too. Very envious of you ;)
Got it built goo.gl/photos/hrtgqAV8bjbYM9wh9
Great videos. Super helpful! Since you’re a graphics professional, please use a decent world map. For instance: Greenland sq is 836k sq miles while Africa is 11.73 million sq miles.
It’s actually the way globe maps have been created. For example Egypt is actually twice the size of Finland but on the map it appears smaller. The sizes change and go larger the closer to the poles you go. Correct it’s not in proportion and no idea why these maps are inaccurate
#4 is the most imortant point, appreciated 4:00
Absolutely.
I love the Honda Rebel 300. Unfortunately you need to be 18 to acquire the license for that category of bikes
It'll soon come that time.
What are your thoughts on starting on a functional Honda Goldwing 1100 as a first project/beginner ?
I wouldn’t recommend one as a first cafe racer project
For The Bold What about functional Honda CX 650 ?
A much easier bike than a gold wing.
As a beginner deciding between two motorcycles to do first build, what option would be better a 1982 BMW R65LS or a 1982BMW R100? What do you recommend?
For a first starter any BMW R model will be seriously tricky. Seriously expensive parts so beware of that. Carbs are tricky too
For The Bold I have seen a number of your videos but what motorcycle do you recommend that is not as tricky?
Oh please leave those lovely BMW bikes alone and choose a Japanese bike no one wants....
.....thank you!!!!, i can relate to all of this unfortunatley lol!!!,
Worst of mine....buying a ^bargain^suzuki aircooled gsx 1150, from france, .........no paperwork for u.k registration,.........., frame rusted from inside, under downtube cradle, rear seat subframe rusted thru, steering locks broken off, gas tank rusted through bottom, badly welded patch, wiring loom brittle from heat and age, inlet manifold rubbers perished(new unobtainable), gigantic mikuni roundslide carbs, all screws corroded, exhaust pipes rotted, manifold studs, one or two snapped, rear wheel, bearing worn out, clutch hub rubbers perished, sprocket worn our, rear disc worn paper thin, rear caliper siezed, leaking, swingarm bushes siezed solid, rear shock siezed solid, chain worn out, front anti dive system leaking, pipes perished, fork bushes leaking, fork springs worn out, fork tubes pitted, and filled with araldite, both front discs worn thin, right side cracked right thru, ............it sounded great when it was running, but never ever ever again.......
Are there tutorials or advice- videos on your channel?
Plenty, over 200 videos
Cant wait to see you riding your suzuki gs550 cafe racer. With everything complete
Thanks, me too, but it'll be a different colour when on the road ;)
owhh? having second thought on the existing colour scheme?
Yeah, I don't know if I've just been looking at it for too long but I've gone off it.
Great! followed your build from part 1. It showed me that it isnt that easy to rebuild a bike but it is always achievable with perseverance. God i wish bike parts are as cheap as in where you live. Many people were just cut and weld new frame and painted their bike here. resulting in poor build quality.
It was partly my fault as I wanted a proper project and ended up with a bike that wouldn't even start! But you're right, if you stick at it you'll get there. I honestly thought parts were expensive here.
I've seen so many bikes advertised on craigslist etc...
" Bought it as a project but lost interest " or started project but don't have time to finish, in other words,
It's way more work than I thought, I have no idea what I'm doing and don't know if the bike is even complete !
Or you get, " bike was running when I put it away.........15 years ago !
Even the ones advertised as,
" Runs great," yeah for five seconds then the carbs will foul up cos the tank is totally full of shite.
Ha ha this is true.
What makes the H-D such a complicated build?
Just to get it looking like a classic cafe bike but there are some amazing takes on it.
It's nice to hear some good simple common sense, I think they should change its name seeing as there isn't that much about.
Ha, yeah not very common.
I refer to it as natural intelligence.
Hello mate Im considering building my first bike but want to know if you can mix different bike parts together or will it be incompatable.
You can make almost anything fit, but it wont be an easy route most of the times.
For The Bold - dreegez Can you mix different electronics together.
+Old Man lights are always easy to mix. Where it gets into a grey area that's out of my knowledge is ignition coils and regulators. But as they're hidden if it was me I'd just stick to the recommended ones
For The Bold - dreegez thanks
Do u have any advice for buying a bike without papers?
I wouldn’t recommend it in the uk.
Top vídeo
Thank you
How much it’s gonna cost cafe racer bike ? I love those bike .
I'll sell one you fine price good buy cash now okay?
I am about 195 cm tall and my question is what bike would u recommend to me for a built? Btw great work and a great vid thanks for that buddy!
Same height as me. I’d suggest something like a CB750
@@forthebold thx bro!
how come in the map Mongolia isn't there, but the Caspian sea is?
+emergencytacos sorry about that. Blame google and where I got the map from.
How do I start a project? What's the way to learn about bikes?
Just buy one and start the small stuff. And have a look at the videos on this channel.
No3 is super totally true...lol
I built a 1988 Honda cafe racer 125cc Is it enough poeer
Power*
If you’re happy with the power that’s all you need to know. You don’t have to ask anyone else.
@@forthebold thanks
Question. You build a nice cafe racer, but would you ever try a hard tail bobber style if build? I know their not to common in the U.K. But they are a blast to build and I'd be interested in seeing your take on one.
It's true, there's not many around in the UK, (I don't think our rides are best suited) I would like to try my hand at one, and I'll definitely be making a photoshop take on one first.
+dreegez I can see they wouldn't be suited for the tight turns and what have you. truth be told they suck to ride but their fun to build
Freddie Mercury called, he wants his jacket back.
No he can't
A few points, in this video you tell people to stay away from angle grinders and to "measure twice, cut once" but in your bar end indicator video you did the opposite of both of those points. Please stop telling people to powder coat frames, this is an inside finish and not an outside finish, just look at your garden furniture, has it coped well with being outside for several winters? Powder coating does not allow you to fill any indescrepencies in the frame. It doesn't react well to sunlight, the paintwork will fade. It is also very difficult to remove from a frame as I have found out on many occasions. For what it's worth, 2 pack is cheaper and more resilient to spanner rash and holds its colour. It is also easier to remove from a frame, and you can use filler before you paint. I have been building bikes for over 40 years, including engines. I have been enjoying watching your videos. I don't mean to be a critique but there seems to be an awful lot of misinformation in this new trend of motorcycle customisation and cafe racer building. Although it is nice to see a lot of new younger riders. Good luck with future projects, I shall watch with interest, regards from the boys over at fen-tiger.
Thanks for your comment, and thanks for watching the videos. I don't think I said for people to stay away from angle grinders, as it's my most used tool (used in all my frame mods), that might have been missunderstood on your part, but I agree with the bar end video that I did cut by eye, but that is just a £2 mirror clamp. As for powder coating I have to stand by that, most manufacturers powder coat, a lot of external items are powder coated (outdoor furniture you see with the flaking paint is definitely what I class as the same job as what automotive powder coating is. I know what kind you mean but that's some horrible stuff. CCM for example clear powdercoat their bare steel frames. The problem I have with 2 pack (although it is seriously good paint I agree) is that you need a full breathing mask and suit for it including a spray booth with fans costing a lot of money to set up, as it is HIGHLY CANCEROUS, I automotive paints like cellulose are also bad for health, but 2 pack is something I stay away from, I leave that to the professionals like yourself. Have a good day.
Don't remove the front mudguard!
Go on, be brave
1. Reducing rear suspension travel, and
2. Obviously uncomfortable seats
🤣🤣
Number 5 is my enemy!! I have 60 bikes "in the works" lol.
Take LOTS of pictures! The road to hell is paved with good intentions. A winter build turns into several winters because things happen, that's life. If you know someone is stuck on a build, remind them of the dream. sometime that's all it takes to get them back in the game. I like to have pics of bikes similar to what I'm building for inspiration.
Definitely
there is ghost in that building
I think so. I never touched it.
He mentioned UK and stuff strats to fall apart, mmh...
Not my fault
Biggest mistakes... well I got a really dumb one. First bike I bought had a holen n the frame I.didn't see because it wasn't dead on when looking at it. You had to kinda reach up and finger about a bit. Or look with a light from the opposite side. It was a big ass hole too. Completely compromised the frame. 1300 usd down the tubes about. Luckily I got some back as the motor was strong so I sold it as a parts bike. But man did that teach me to be annoyingly meticulous when looking at a new potential build. Also, don't buy those cheap pod filtera you see on ebay. They just don't work well. Spend the extra 100$ or whatever and get real quality ones. Or if you can make it look cool leave the stock air box on. But let's be real, that never looks cool on a cafe build.....
Yep. Holes in frames are bad luck.
talk about bobbers!
I will be putting up a bobber video soon, I think if you're going bobber it will have to be a ard tailed bobber.
I prefer don't measure and struggle/weld/rage for days!
Yep, been there
measure once, cut twice... got it
That’s it
I am not sure if building Cafe Racers is a hobby or business for you. Have you found building your bikes profitable. Buy cheap, fix up and sell for a profit?
It's a hobby but it's not a profitable business to buy cheap. You have to spend a lot of money to make a quality product that people will buy
Add 30% to what ever you think your build is going to cost (on the high end) & you might be close
very true
i did every single one of these! haha #CafeRacerPro
Me too, including cutting the bike and thinking... shit!
i really like your videos of your builds i hope we get to see more come out soon!
Thank you, yeah I'll be starting another one towards the end of March. With better detailed videos also.
Sweet! Looking forward to it!
I'm already out at number 1...
Ha ha
General rule #1: Its a mistake to try and build a cafe racer. Dont mess up a good bike.
I’m not if you know you’re going to fail.
.......three times cut......still to short!
ha ha
Duhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh !
The worst mistake? Spending most of the time on social media talking about the custom building, instead of focusing efforts at the workshop.
Pays the mortgage and the builds so why not?
@@forthebold For The Bold clever, but I guess this video is dedicated to beginners who are approaching to a cafe racer build. If you focus on getting money from UA-cam you'll fall into tip #5
I’m not focusing on getting youtube money. I have my own full time job but this channel is about sharing my hobby and inspiring others to build. And these videos have also brought me opportunities to build bikes in America and other opportunities. This is by no means a business model for me to make a living on. But over the years making these videos for free and posting them have been fun as well as inspire a whole bunch of people to start.
@@forthebold This answer is much better than the previous one :) Cheers
I sujest the 5 th option all tym when u are building ur bike . Many tym v se time wastage or money . Or lot of junk v store . No guys if u have a hobby to built it then remember no prise matters in the front of ur hobbies .
But if ur just going to do as a fun don't waste the bike and ur money give ur old bike to ur friend or sell online so that some one else do .
Please add sound dampening and buy a better mic (yeti etc). The sound is very harsh
It’s a Rhode NT1A. Much better than a yeti.
To the 104 who dint like this. Go ahead. Ignore everything he said. You'll be playing UA-cam critic and picking your nose while I'm out riding! (heh heh)
Ha, thanks for your support and see you out on the ride.
"We have all been there"... No we havent.
Ha
..The Cafe Racer of any stripe is Not for a learner.
Loose the cap my man. We want to se your eyes while you talk.
Bad hair day then ;)
Lol.
I was sure it was intentional each video. Cheers! Only kidding.
And stupid me took (too) many parts off the bike. And in the end, it wasn't even necessary.
We're all guilty of that!
Много болтаешь!
Just bolt on. 99% of you don't have the skills to do any more than that. Motorcycle sale websites are full of cafe racer unsafe junk.
But that’s the beauty of diy builds. Start off with no skill and gain confidence