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Are VIVINO Tasting Notes useful? The BLIND experiment.
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- Опубліковано 26 лис 2022
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Wine key: Laguiole en Aubrac Wine Key Ebony
Glass: RIEDEL Veritas Champagne.
I have tasted the following wines in this Video:
2021 Ca dei Frati I Frati Lugana Lombardy, Italy:
www.wine-searc...
2021 Domane Wachau Freie Weingartner Terrassen Gruner Veltliner Federspiel:
www.wine-searc...
2020 Quinta de Soalheiro Primeiras Vinhas Alvarinho Vinho Verde, Portugal:
www.wine-searc...
2020 Familia Zuccardi Serie A Malbec Mendoza, Argentina:
www.wine-searc...
2019 Decoy Cabernet Sauvignon California, USA:
www.wine-searc...
2017 Cantine San Marzano 60 Sessantanni Old Vines Primitivo di Manduria Puglia, Italy:
www.wine-searc...
The 100 Point Scoring System (from www.robertparker.com):
96-100: An extraordinary wine of profound and complex character displaying all the attributes expected of a classic wine of its variety. Wines of this caliber are worth a special effort to find, purchase and consume.
90 - 95: An outstanding wine of exceptional complexity and character. In short, these are terrific wines.
80 - 89: A barely above average to very good wine displaying various degrees of finesse and flavor as well as character with no noticeable flaws.
70 - 79: An average wine with little distinction except that it is soundly made. In essence, a straightforward, innocuous wine.
60 - 69: A below-average wine containing noticeable deficiencies, such as excessive acidity and/or tannin, an absence of flavor or possibly dirty aromas or flavors.
50 - 59: A wine deemed to be unacceptable.
I am regularly surprised to see how many wine enthusiasts are using the wine app Vivino. I don’t think wine professionals are as excited about the app and I don’t use it but that doesn't matter.
There are more than 61 million users on the platform who have added 252 million ratings and close to 90 million wine descriptions -quite impressive.
In addition to the tasting notes and ratings, you can also find a TASTE SUMMARY for the wine you are looking at with a slider that shows you how heavy or light a wine is. You also see which flavor groups are mentioned most often. So there is a lot of information.
I am curious to find out whether wine amateurs can create tasting notes that help me understand the flavor and taste profile of wines to make an educated decision.
Leon has picked out 6 wines and I also have the tasting notes for those 6 wines in envelopes. I am going to taste the wines blind first and then I am going to see whether I can match the description to the wines -got it?!
I usually use Vivino as an app for myself, so I rate a wine and then I can go back and see what I thought about that wine and then it shows other styles you might also like from your rating
I agree with you Marc, that's how I use it.
Yep. Same here. And I like the cellar function, too.
Me too
Yeah. Same …
@@jicklesjingles8134❤ä
I mostly use Vivino to remember what I have tasted and to keep track of some wines I maybe missed on the local market.
It's sometimes okay to go with the top few, like say the most voted fruit, etc, but most people just invent on Vivino. If I'm not sure, because not all wines are super obvious, I will say "red fruits" or "dark fruits", I personally won't invent to seem cool. Not all wines are giving such obvious aromas anyway.
Maybe this is a lesson for newbies as well. Not all wines have so many super obvious identifiable aromas. Sometimes I only get the fruit direction, sometimes I get the fruit, sometimes the stage of the fruit, sometimes along with the secondary (like spice, earth, etc), but sometimes, it is just a "red fruit wine". Be very suspicious about a wine guy who seemingly picks other 7 aromas from a wine you can only pick a fruit direction on. More times than not, they are inventing.
I'm glad to see I'm not the only one that identifies just a handful of flavors and aromas in wine. I consider myself to have a great sense of smell and am flabbergasted when I see wine descriptors that mention 7-10 flavors and aromas. You don't have to taste or smell a million things to appear sophisticated or enjoy wine!
If I get two, I feel all fat and sassy. I do not have a great nose.
Correct … you need to smell a million and one!
Just finished my wset 3 course and some of the people on it were picking out so many descriptors i felt like i was a lot worse than them at the tasting! so glad i read this because its true, you dont need to pick out a million things, you should keep your tasting notes concise
That Decoy wine for 2019 was "49% Cabernet Sauvignon 27% Merlot 17% Zinfandel 5% Petite Sirah and 2% Syrah blend ", no wonder it was so light in colour, miss labeled for me, as under 50% Cab....The 2020 is 90% Cab and 10% Merlot.
Everyone is an expert in their own taste. An amalgamation of everyone's opinion is rarely that useful.
Vivino is more help than having nothing. We can’t all dial a Master of Wine although if you want to give me your number to text, I’ll gladly take it ;) I find reading multiple reviews helps because you can’t just take the opinion of one yahoo! Hahaha great vid!!
it would be interesting to do the same exercise with cellar tracker tasting notes, which I tend to think is written from more learned enthusiasts, while vivino strikes me as a place where more casual wine drinkers record their thoughts
Entertaining episode. I use CellarTracker, not Vivino. The key to using non-professional reviews, such as these, is to read 5-10 of the most recent review notes. From those, you can usually form a "consensus" view of the wine (crowd sourced), as the wine is currently drinking. A single, random review is rarely a useful data point. Similarly, when reading 3-4 professional reviews of the same wine, I rarely see much agreement in their descriptions. So, I'd rather have 10-20 non-professional reviews describing how a wine drinks now, rather than one, two, or three professional reviews that occurred 3-10 years ago. This is why I dropped my Wine Spectator subscription 10 years ago, and since rely on CT reviews for making purchasing decisions and decisions about when a wine is ready to drink. Apologies to all the professionals out there, but crowd-sourced wine intelligence (e.g., Vivino, CT) is very popular because people find it valuable.
Same way i use CT and definitely prefer it to vivino
the best way of using Vivino (as I do it personally) is to follow the people whose taste you trust based on their previous reviews coinciding with your owns. Usually these people have tasted thousands wines, so when you want to know something about a wine there is almost always some of your "friends" who described it, so you can read his/her note and make your idea.
Exactly! That way you don't have to rely on reviews from people with wildly off and confusing perceptions, or simply from people who rate highly traits and characteristics that you don't like in wine (like heavy oak use, so many bad vivino reviews of red wines begin with "you can really taste the oak!")
Oh good. I often use vivino notes, but also often disagree with the profiles. Especially liked your comment about vivino providing “too many” flavors. Thank you, love the videos.
I don't use Vivino, but agree with what KB is intimating - less is more when it comes to describing a wine. A good summary of aromas & tasting notes will be helpful in deciding whether you want to go and seek out a wine.
Quite a fun video! Vivino, of course, is a collection of TOO many opinions, some good, some bad, like most of social media. I was once very active on the format, so I have a small group of people that I trust their ratings and descriptions. The general ratings are useful to see if a wine is worth trying, though I find over produced wines overrated. (I guess that should be expected)
I use Vivino quite a lot, mainly for my own tasting notes and comparisson. It forces me a bit more to describe the wione and tasting notes. However also to get some tips from a group of reliable Vivino users. This way I got introduced to fantastic Greek wines, without the interaction on Vivino I would probably never have tried those.
At a certain amount of reviews of a wine you can pretty much not go wrong anymore.
Keep in mind, most people are amateurs in wine and need a guideline how to find "cant be bad" wines for cool prices.
Just watched this and I have a significant birthday coming up and now I know what have with my scallops! Love your work, Konstantiin.
Use Vivino mainly to keep track of my cellar and order / find wines I discover during outings. Quickly scan and order what I want if I get something that stands out.
Great concept KB… I think it depends on the reviewer. I do have a large Vivino account (altho I post less frequently now) and am picking on who I follow. There are a few guys and gals writing good notes. Like Wine Critics, it’s all about who you trust.
To me, more serious wine lovers on the app are easy to pick out judging by their tasting notes.
The most powerful thing about the app for me is meeting passionate wine lovers, especially in the unique wine countries like Serbia, Croatia, and more.
Way to challenge yourself with the blind tasting. I LOOOOVEE Soalheiro and Domaine Wachau - great value for money.
Great video. Vivino has so much interesting sides, starting from the Indian customer service center matching your label photo to having an enormous wine database which was solely created by its users (and now gives vivino an easy choice to decide which wines to sell on their own). It would have been interesting to have your rating compared to Vivinos community rating since the scores sometimes seem very subjective, especially in favor of primitivo/zinfandel/amarone wines.
Oh man. I literally watched this guy eating and drinking for 20+ minutes on the wine king channel yesterday and now this. Thank you so much - this shows that vivino is a lot like Twitter. Some good stuff but but you have to pick the right people to follow/listen to, and way too much noise! This world has too many people who like to pretend to know things, it was great to see this MW bring some lights into it. Another super fun/educational video, thank you!!
@Constantin - as a WSET 3 holder, I would say that one of the big flaws of the WSET is that the mark scheme has no negative marks for tasting notes so it encourages you to put down whatever flavours and aromas you imgaine to be in the wine, whether you really taste it or not. this is why you have so many flavours coming through on the reviews on vivino
I use Vivino for tracking my own tastings, and I‘m astonished by the colorful tasting notes, which are, as I also found out, not very useful. Moreover, often the ratings do not match at all to my taste. Example: these sweety Primitivos or Ripassos are often overrated by up to 0.5 points, whereas Sangiovese is almost always underrated by up to 0,5 points. I conclude that less experienced Vivino users tend to like opulent, pleasing wines and overrate them. This would imply that New World wines, which I rarely drink, are also overrated. I think I have to look elsewhere for better information, as you said, from experts like you.
new world is the best!! get on board old man
@@killerdude-hz2bb well, I cannot spend $100+for a napa star, but I still have Black Stallion Chardonnay and Cabernet Sauvignon in my cellar, as well as Penfolds Bin 28.
I find much the same. I've tasted some vile sweet wines that were highly rated, actually good sweet wines that were rated similarly, and truly special dry and highly tannic reds that were rated quite poorly. Just like google reviews of restaurants, I often use ratings to see what might be interesting but don't take them as gospel because you can really miss out on something special if you fully buy into them.
I get the feeling that Vivino users tend to be harsh towards more expensive wines, unless they're already famous. And scores tend to languish in the 4.0 - 4.2 region for a lot of good stuff, and for mediocre wines as well. You make a good point that some more "difficult" wines are punished (common sherry, like Tio Pepe Fino, has unjustifiably low scores, as do many SW France reds), but I've seen the same backlash against reds that rely on residual sugar to be easier to drink as well.
I´m not convinced about professionals all the time. I mean when I look at Suckling´s scores I really struggle to see it!
Honestly I like using vivino for finding crowd-pleasing wines. Generally it can help you get the wines that will make a mixture of people happy enough.
Depends on the person, some give rich descriptions of aroma and taste, some comment more on the quality to price ratio, and others give nothing but "4 stars, good with steak". I use it to get a guide on what others have to say, since I can scan a wine and check what my following have to say about it, and I follow people who's opinions I trust, generally those with a WSET qualification.
Hi Konstantin, Lovely video again! In one of your previous videos you mentioned that we as viewers could request reviews about specific wines/regions. Lately I had a really nice bottle of Chateau Maillard "Graves". I would love to see some reviews about wine and more information about the Graves region near Bordeaux. Thanks!
Thank you for once again pushing Portuguese wines to the light! Soalheiro is an amazing example of the best Alvarinho we produce here. You may also want to bring to the cannel Anselmo Mendes (especially the Parcela Única), an amazing top Portuguese Producer for Vinho Verde varieties. Thank you and a lucrative hug from Portugal!
Vivino descriptions are hit or miss, but the * ratings are a good indicator for wine shopping, although you have to deduct some for wines with residual sugar, which are typically rated slightly higher.
I do use vivino ratings to choose a good bottle of a specific grape/appelation and i tend to agree with the mass opinion more often than not (there were exceptions for sure).
What Vivino is mostly for is archiving my own opinion on a given wine for future-me in case i want to shop for this given wine style again.
Quinta de Soalheiro Primeiras Vinhas Alvarinho Vinho Verde, Portugal - 24 US $, really expensive in the Usa, here in Portugal it costs between 14€ to 17€.
Many just need to view Vivino as a tool. It can be used for good or bad. Many reviews for a white when the wine is a red or vice-versa.. Many people saying a wine is very "Burgundian" when it comes off as quintessential Californian. I rarely use it for keeping my tasting notes/opinions, but considering it has a large userbase it can sometimes come in handy when Cellartracker has no reviews on a wine or a particular vintage
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I find many, but not all, of the descriptions on Vivino to be inaccurate as well, but am not surprised as this is also the case on cellar tracker. It isn't uncommon to find descriptions that directly contradict one another. Having taken WSET courses, I find that it is difficult to make notes that are consistent between different wines, and requires tons of practice. People also get carried away with all sorts of idiosyncratic and particular descriptors. Tasting takes lots of focus and practice and also varies between individuals because we all have different palates. Good video
If you pay close attention, Vino will sometimes intermixes different vintages into the reviews. I have even found notes of a white wine intermixed under the heading of a red wine. Overall, I think Vivino is pretty good though.
Vivino ratings are for a quick reference only. It’s obvious many ratings are clueless. One a specific wine one rating will say “too sweet” with another on the exact wine is “too dry”. But there are knowledgeable reviews, and these are useful.
I've only recently started following, but after hearing "you already know how I feel about 'minerality'", I now have to watch more. I have no idea what "minerality" brings to the taste of a wine.
Great video konstantin! I’ve found vivino just ends up with almost every wine in the world being about a 4 star. I’ve defaulted now to just identifying varietals I like from regions I like and just using vivino as a history of my wines rather than informing purchasing decisions. that’s working better for me! Please keep making more videos!
Agreed, Vivino ratings are useless. I really like Cellar Tracker.
As somebody doing Wset 3 right now you critiquing the WSET student's tasting note felt a bit personal hahaha. Can you do a video on how you like to write tasting notes and maybe critique/review the WSET approach a bit? I feel like there are some problems(still a net benefit by far) and it would be amazing to hear your opinion on the topic.
Medium+ comment
I have my WSET 3, and though I value the certification, and hope to go further with it, I don't personally love the approach to tasting wine. Generally, it's a good guideline, but some of their rules don't make sense to me. The structure for writing tasting notes is good for personal use, but not great for sharing with others, and the rules are certainly bendable when writing notes outside of class. I've been trying to break some habits I developed when I was still learning their approach to tasting.
I've only done WSET level 1 and I think it was good, it encouraged me to find more flavour notes and I noticed that many students had problems even identifying 1-2.
That being said, I can see how going forward this can become a problem because it's easy to get more points by just listing more related notes in a cluster, if a wine tastes of lemon it's rarely a mistake to just add some other citrus fruit for extra points, or if you get nutmeg it's rarely a mistake to just add cinnamon, sometimes those flavours are so close that you can't really be "disproven" but I'm not sure if it helps people who read your notes much.
I work in a liquor shop, where pretty much all the staff is very knowledgeable about wine, spirits, beer, and all of our products. I, recently, approached a customer, and offered them recommendations, to which their response was, "No that's okay, I'm just checking Vivino." I already noticed they were scanning the bottles into the app, but figured I'd offer anyway. I politely responded, "Okay, no problem, but for the record, we can give you better recommendations than Vivino..." They laughed, and continued their shopping, but, after some time, did consult me. I convinced them to go with the Buehler Estate Cabernet Sauvignon over the Caymus they were considering. Though California Cabernet's aren't, usually, my personal choice, I considered it a small victory, nonetheless. Buehler Estate is an awesome producer, and I'm always thrilled when I can convince someone to choose that over Caymus. All in all, a success. Vivino is no friend of the industry, haha!
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That may be a better wine but it doesn’t mean that customer liked it. I have people I have steered toward a certain wine and they hated it and likes another trash bottle. Taste is taste and you may know wine but they likely don’t and may like snoop 19crimes over a good bottle.
Completely agree with your assessment - as someone who regularly presents to a group and is constantly sourcing new wines to experience I would rather go to professional sites where there is far more consistency and biases become apparent thx db
I find Vivino only useful to keep track what I have tasted in the past and to save recomendations and wines I want to try in the application. I follow a couple of people on the app which I trust give good reviews on the wines they have tasted (sommeliers and wine experts), I rarely read random reviews as they tend to be quite misleading.
Would love to see your reviews on the app haha! I suspect that your tasting notes are quite spot :)
I use it to keep track of what I enjoyed and what regions the wines originated from. Getting descriptions of wine from other people is borderline useless when it comes down to useful tasting notes.
Vivino is a good sort of general guide for certain things. Although it always favors some styles over others so you have to have a good understanding of the rating system. But it can be useful as others have mentioned to keep tasting notes and ratings for your own personal use.
It is also fun to read through descriptions and see some of what people describe certain wines as. It can make for a good laugh
Good choice! Thank you for sharing!
great to watch a master show me what I felt was right
Keep them coming, my thirst for your content will never be quenched!
Thank you very much!
I LOVE this concept for a video Konstantin! The content just keeps getting better.
I use Vivino for my own notes so don't expect them to understandable by others. Vivino just makes it really easy to take a quick pic of a label no matter where you are. That said I still struggle with the concept of why we need experts to describe wine for us. We don't expect that for any other type of food. For everything else we can usually decide what we like and what we don't like and why. Personally I think expertise really helps is to find other things to try based on a bottle / grape / category. In addition knowing how wine is produced (with or without chemicals / additives / etc) since this is sometimes hard to figure out just from the label.
I use vivino to get wines that are not available from local wine shops and to get older vintages.
Even not yet looking your video I can say that most of ratings in Vivino are close to the truth and I trust the app. Especially when I am reading ratings from subscriptions I have of people there. If you are not expert and don’t have your own level of understanding of wines or not know Many names of wineries and cannot judge based on producer and year - vivino will tell you enough to choose wine for you. 👌
I think Vivino can be helpful in a few ways: 1. Quick information about a wine when you might not have the time to do a deep dive. 2. If I'm shopping for older wines I'll sort the reviews by "newer" and see when the last time it was rated and if the drinker thought it was still fresh or over the hill. That can determine if I risk buying the wine. 3. What will a casual wine drinker think of this wine? As a wine buyer this is pretty valuable information that can determine if I order a wine to put on BTG.
I think it would've been better/more of a challenge if you took out all of the descriptors and matched them with the wines at one time and did a big reveal at the end instead of doing it one by one.
Love your content though, just found you a couple days ago and I've been binging your videos ever since! Thanks for making my day more fun and interesting!
I use Vivino whenever I go wine shopping and run across something that I haven't seen before. I am less concerned about the descriptors (which can sometimes be a little weird), but to see if people really liked it. I have noticed that the people who don't like the wine tend to be more accurate and precise. So if it is 3.9 or over, I'm more likely to buy it. If it is less than that, then I will carefully read some of the comments to see if it's worth trying. I think Vivino is a pretty valuable tool.
I have the Zuccardi on my btg list its only $10 in the state of Pennsylvania such an exceptional value
I keep admiring your video ideas! Thank you!
This was an excellent idea and I hope to see more like this. Being new to wine tasting, it gave me insight into what works and doesn't in descriptors.
I use Vivino to keep track of what I have tasted and what I like. Also useful if there are offers/prices for reference. Reading some of the comments below, I believe a good number of us use Vivino for the same purpose.
Great video, I like vivino for cataloging my thoughts on wines
Very interesting. I often cannot associate the wine descriptions with what I am tasting. Glad I am not alone, even though I am not nearly as skilled of a taster.
I love that the wine named Decoy was able to "trick" your palate so much 😂
It would be interesting to have a blind tasting between all sparkling Wine (classic method) of all regions, especially France and Italy. Italy is more than Trento and Franciacorta, it would be nice to have a blind tasting even just for my country (I’m a fan of Alta Langa, try Contratto brand 😊)
I agree with you that Vivino taste notes are more selectively helpful but not in a way totally trustful. I am not an expert in wine but I find it difficult to believe some other people's convenient writing in Vivino. That said, Vivino does have lot of wines for pricing and variety references. After all, drinking wine is very personal and unique but to some degrees that the expert is the one who can tell much more differences.
The Primeiras Vinhas Alvarinho is actually not their entry level but the wine from the first Alvarinho grapes they've planted back in the days. Lovely wine by the way - if you need help to finish the bottle let me know please! 😁✌️
I ventured to the comments section to point out the same hehe. And coincidentally I just purchased a case of this wine yesterday. Such a nice wine.
No surprise there is some hit and miss when taking descriptors from non professionals, or even those without some training. In a tasting like this, it may be good to look at all the tasting notes before attempting to match. Those more mysterious ones, can be compared and evaluated, and you aren't left with one at the end that can only be one of the wines. Cheers!
#6 i tasted that in the past. Classical one
One very nice feature of the Vivino app is the “My Cellar” part which allows you to keep track of your cellar inventory. There are surely better apps made solely for this purpose, but the Vivino app is free. With the date and ability to add notes, I can see exactly where I bought it, when and for how much. Plus I can see which drawer it’s on, which means I don’t have to open the door for very long!
The 2019 Decoy is 14% Merlot and from the house of Duckhorn, who specialize in Merlot.
I use VIVINO for many of the same reasons as other followers:
1. It helps me keep track of wines I have had, when I had them, and what I thought when drinking them.
2. I can immediately see tasting opinions of vinofiles I trust, who share my affinity and respect for good wine.
3. I can immediately see the average world-price.
4. The number of users makes for a huge database; I rarely cannot match a wine. I have added some myself.
A few rules I made myself that I follow and suggest for others:
1. The fewer the reviews, the most likely the score average and reviews are less reliable.
2. The average score should mean little regarding if you will like the wine or not.
3. Reviews can be often been completely polarized, to the point of being comically different.
4. Take time to investigate tasters you will follow; one or two wines of agreement may not establish trust.
5. Of course, follow friends as a way of keeping up with their wine explorations, but avoid argument in that all of our wine journeys are different.
6. After years of use, it seems most drinkers, not all, prefer bigger, overt wines with oak- easy drinking wines. This is of course okay, but does not reflect my own taste, thus I keep such in mind at all times when using the app.
Another great video Konstantin. I, like some of the others use Vivino to keep track of wines I've tasted and if I liked it or not. I'm not very good at tasting various flavors so my descriptions are for my purpose only.
Quite interesting alot of you saying you just use it to track your own wines you have drunk to keep a record, I have to agree with that I too keep record of my wines on there just to have a record, plus handy to see the wine list, and to quickly search the price tag of a wine in a resturant...
Since the majority of reviews on Vivino are posted by non-professionals, terminologies and phrases tend to be used incorrectly.
For example, non-professionals tend to associate wines with strong primary fruit flavors as being "sweet," even if the wine has no residual sugar. Non-professionals also tend to associate lower acidity wines and residual sugar as being "smoother" and confuse tannins for acidity.
This is how you end up with a dry, tannic Malbec with dark fruit flavors and lower acidity being described as "sweet" and "smooth."
When I hover over the UA-cam thumbnail, it starts playing with the subtitles "hi my name is console dimbaum I'm a master of wine". "Console" I can understand, but "dimbaum"? 😄 Anyway, lovely to get another blind tasting.
Vivino is based on a statistical model. The ratings and gaged descriptors like tannins, acidity, sweetness is an average of all those who rate the wine. Some have very few ratings and some have hundreds. The more ratings the more accurate the average.
Not surprised you got merlot from decoy, does have some inside and that's what duckhorn is good at 😁
Konstantine...you should do a video just dedicated to Spain. Leave out Rioja and Ribera del Duero. Possibly also Rias Baixas. People know those..... I just think price quality is unbeatable. And yes, I am including " Germanic" wines...😉
I use it to track what i have had, and when i go to the store to buy a few random bottles I will look them up to just check the overall rating.
I trust producers that I'm familiar with; reviewers may well have completely different sensitivities that can be hard to translate.
(Domaine Wachau happens to be one of these producers!)
For me, vivino is a app for basic people to never buy a “bad wine” twice. For me, the idea of vivino is a note pad where you add what your personal taste is and little by little get your own wine portfolio/collection. If you want real expert reviews, you check actual wine masters reviews elsewhere.
Where do I find the expert reviews?
I agree with the Cellar Tracker average rating far more often than any professional reviewer. Antonio Galloni is the most trustworthy professional imo.
Great fun video, to be more fair to vivino it could be worth getting a few reviews for each one rather than a single one to work from, that's a large benefit - also noting the usefulness of the review and experience of the reviewer.
It's understandable that wine professionals won't use it and be excited for vivino as they have a vested interest in getting people to pay and subscribe to their website - and fair enough too, it's their livelihood after all.
Finding and following someone from your region with a lot of reviews that you agree with is the best way to use it in my experience and it can be very helpful finding new wines that way. That and keeping track of what I've tried and thought of it is great too.
I use Vivino a lot but my description detail depends whether I can be bothered at the time - some use conventional wine descriptions and others just an opinion. Mainly use it for buying ideas / value judging🙃 and for keeping track of what one has tried.
Looking at wines on the shelf, I usually have nothing but Vivino to go by.
Great video, but show some love, i love that i have access too my former tasting, without having everithing in my head. But again, you should whait with the reveal too the end, that makes the end more interesting. 🙂
Very interesting tasting! I have been using Vivino ever since the Pandemic began and I took up learning and tasting wine as a hobby. After having tried 595 wines at this point I can say that Vivino is very useful for some things and not so useful for others. I love it for keeping track of what I have tried and how I like each wine. It’s also very useful for keeping a list of what is in your cellar! But the downside is there is such a range of reviews and experience in the people who taste - for example since Moscato is super popular to the masses of wine drinkers, almost all Moscatos have very high ratings. Since anyone can review you will also often see things like Chardonnays that were unoaked with lots of people citing oak as a characteristic. And there is not yet a way to submit a correction if the grapes listed are wrong or it doesn’t have the country of origin, etc. I am curious where you find the descriptions you used for this video? I don’t seem to have those on my app (either phone or computer version) I only have winemaker’s notes and taste characteristics - I wonder if the app is different between the U.S. and Europe? I often find the winemaker’s notes to be a better overall description of the wine since they know the actual
product so well. Sometimes I consult the taste characteristics if there are many (hundreds) notes of the same ones and they are tastes and aromas I enjoy. Vivino is certainly a mixed bag!
I am a Vivino user and here are some observations:
1. From a scoring perspective, there is a a very strong bias towards southern "primitivo-like" wines: baked fruit, ripe , jammy profile type. At least with a country profile like Germany.
2. It's good for following some "wine people" that you trust, where the scores are not influenced by the sweeter palate
3. They have some good sales sometimes ( at least here in Germany ). Sometimes when I feel lazy, I couch-scroll through the app and order some favourites :)
4. My friends are using it, so sometimes it's fun to see what they drink and how they rate.
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I think it’s sort of useful for heavier, concentrated reds. Vivino users have the palettes of finance bros. If the California cab is rated 4.3+ and I want that kind of thing, it’s either going to be a good choice, or a complete over oaked, recipe wine making train wreck.
I have found Vivino pretty useful on a number of occasions. There is a trick though, in order to get the most accurate descriptions for the wines.
There are quite a few wine professionals on Vivino whose reviews often match my reviews. Also there are people that their taste is calibrated similarly to my taste, so again, our reviews usually match. I follow these people.
So, "the trick" is, not to read random people's reviews as they can be way off, as mentioned above.
Instead go to the "Friends" tab when reading your reviews and only read the reviews from the people you trust.
Vivino is also useful as a cellar tracker, for keeping wish lists, or for learning new styles from the "Adventures" section.
I am actually more interested if the ratings on Vivino make sense. It would be interesting to look into that
Love your videos. Where do you get your wine racks in the background. I need some for my cellar....
Thanks for this very entertaining and exciting video! I just did not understand what the Vivino "description" was (the short text you were reading at the beginning of each print). As far as I know, there is no such thing. For some wines, there are the winemaker's notes. And then there are the reviews from Vivino users. So, I am a bit confused. Was the Vivino "description" you used one of these reviews? They are of very variable quality, as one can expect. There is also more information on Vivino, for example, some critics' reviews when available (e.g. Wine Enthusiast, etc...).
First time I bought wines on Vivino, BOTH bottles of a cabernet sauvignon were corked somehow. The second time I bought 3 bottles of a pinot grigio and they arrived leaking from the screw caps. The caps and collars had strange dents in them. I immediately had them returned and replaced. The second package of 3 bottles arrived and seemed pristine this time. Once I opened one, it was slightly fizzy and very off...so I opened another bottle and it was the same. I had them returned and refunded and never used Vivino since. They seem to often source wines from very dodgy merchants.
Ambitious project
I mainly use vivino to keep track of the things I like and don’t like. I never look at others ratings and scores until after I’ve tasted and written my own. I also wish the scoring was 10/10 instead of 5/5
Totally agree! Although now that they allow you to pick a “star” rating down to the 10th of a star it’s basically the same as the 100pt scale. I just rate a wine as I would on 100pt scale, subtract 50 and divide by 10.
I think the way Vivino does scoring isn't great, but okay, probably a 100 point scale won't work either.
I personally find myself using the 5 start system differently for white, red and sparkling wines.....
Great concept, loved it! Not surprised by the results. I noticed with vivino if the wine label has tasting notes, those notes are mirrored in vivino. I’m wondering 2 things: why didn’t your intern carafe the wines to take the bottle out as a clue; why didn’t you make all your guesses before opening.
I am quite sure that we can't meaningfully identify more than 2 or 3 ancillary flavours in wine.. It does seem to get a bit waffly when we're supposed to be getting tobacco, leather, chocolate and a whole bunch of fruits from one red wine. A great fun video this! Thanks Konstantin. 🌟👍
That might be an issue with your technique, or maybe with the wines you're tasting. I've easily noticed 8-9 clear descriptors on sophisticated wines, of many different families, and the experience is wonderful. But most wines will never get to that level, despite all those people trying too hard to find them.
@@Ildskalli Ah well, perhaps I'm just a peasant. I think the operant term here might be 'sophistry', most of us in truth just drink the damn stuff.. 🤣🍷
Some flavours can be pretty similar and I really do feel that some people just want to make their tasting notes look more detailed and sophisticated, but in some rare cases there might be differences.
For example when there are white tropical fruits, people very often say "mango, papaya, passionfruit" even though those aromas are pretty close and I think using just one of those descriptors would be enough. Some programmes like WSET really encourage you to list many descriptors, because that gives you points, imho it's easy to get more points by just adding more related descriptors, like if you get some dark chocolate you can very often also add mocca as a descriptor. I don't know if it really helps, as a consumer I prefer shorter tasting notes with the main flavours, if I find more myself while drinking the wine that's fine.
One thing you have to remember is the tasting notes of Vivino are done by us. And we’re not all experts like you. We’re enthusiastic amateurs. My only wine qualification is having drunk it for 20 years, but nothing more formal!
A good example of Vivino being useless is "wood". If you check 2 popular entry-class Douro wines, Papa Figos and Esteva, most of the notes at Vivino will mention wood yet those wines never go near a barrel. Its the same with other popular wines from premium regions: people just want to feel something extra even if there's nothing there.
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Yes true. I have seen oaky as a description on several unoaked wines on vivino.
I never use the descriptions. I only use Vivino for customer reviews to decide if wines I have already bought are ready for drinking.
Loved this video. I use vivino to check myself. I'm trying to be a better taster, identifying flavors and smells. I sometimes wonder about the ratings. Everything seems to be 4+? I also check the producer's website to confirm as well. Thanks!
Hey Konstantine, what would a great food pairing for those kind of Primitivo?
I tend to use the vivino website purely for the personal reviews at the bottom when I'm looking to buy an obscure natural wine, If multiple people say It tastes like dirt then well, I avoid
Vivino is for wine drinkers who like to match merlot with chocolate. If you want any real idea about a wine in question, you must read at least 10+ reviews to get anywhere near an accurate assessment. One can generally tell from certain reviews when the person knows what they are talking about.
If I remember right, Decoy is about 10% merlot so hey, partial credit!
(New Subscriber) Just found your channel, and greatly enjoying the content !
Hey Konstantin, Im curious about your statement of not being able to taste more than 3 flavors in a liquid. Im currently in WSET lvl 3, and were being taught that we need to have at least 7-9 flavors for aroma and palate. I definitely struggle to access that many flavors, but can get around that for aroma especially on oak aged red wines. Can you give me a little more info on this statement? As always love the content, please keep up the good work, and stay thirsty! (also please wish me luck in my lvl 3 test! Im gonna need it!)