6:25 I don't get why everybody thinks that the rules would need to be changed for the stewards to have judged that Verstappen only stayed ahead at the apex by not breaking, not being able to stay on track and thus he also forced Norris off. It's already in the rules that a driver has to be in control. Verstappen isn't exploiting a gap in the rules as much as the stewards' inconsistency.
@@scottb9868Forcing somebody off track to avoid a collision during an overtake attempt is not the same as simply failing to follow track limits while driving on your own
@@PinkAsAPistol he didn’t even lock the brakes up so not sure where you are getting he’s not in control. Just because he ran wide doesn’t mean he wasn’t in control running wide was intentional to do exactly what it did. Block landos momentum and shut him down or force him to go wide and have to give the spot back.
I think they are going to try and make a case that Norris had technically overtaken Max before the braking zone and that Max was counter attacking rather than defending. If this was accepted then Norris held the position he had already taken, and Max had forced another car off the track. One of the arguments made in Brazil 2021 was that Lewis didn't get his car fully ahead of Max before either of them hit the brakes. From the camera views we've seen so far it's not clear if Norris ever got his whole car ahead before they hit the brakes. I believe that the new evidence proves Norris was fully ahead for the briefest of moments. Edit: clarification of new evidence
The issue is the fia keep sucking the Dutch sausage, any other driver gets a penalty for doing what max keeps getting away with, if I'm a driver, I'm telling every other driver from now on that's how we race.
You can't pass off the track... It's a very solid simple rule... If he had given the place back, he likely would have passed Max at some point as his tyres were going... It was another bad call by McClaren and they are just trying to find anyway to correct their own mistake now.. They just aren't run well as a team and it's costing them. It has all season. The argument should be that Max should also get a penalty for forcing him off the track... That holds water.
There is no drama to the championship so let's create some. How about calling out the driving standards in 21.....hmmmm, silence....gravel won't stop lunging.
The funny part is if Max touched Lando's car, he would have been the person receiving the penalty! This is how drivers should race with Max, it is not to give way and let max touch you!
Did they talk to Haas about the right to review. Didn't help them one bit but cost them money. Shouldn't McLaren review their own pitwall for a change.
Nothing will happen from this. As much as I think the rules desperately need an update to stop people getting away with defending like that but they won't change this now
Honestly I don't get it , it's against the rules to pass a car by leaving the track and gaining a advantage , Max obviously forced Norris off so it's up to the stewards to decide if that means a penalty
I think that the key point which shows the baffle on their reasoning is where they admit that normally Norris should have been given 10 seconds for overtaking off track, but Verstappen also forced him there so the penalty is reduced to 5 seconds. So instead of also giving Verstappen a penalty, they kind of made it into an offset for Norris' penalty, naively oblivious to the fact that for another time, it sends the message that Verstappen did nothing wrong.
This is sad when Michael and senna did these things in terms of racing to the limit of the rules it was fun to watch. But now that it is max doing it they can’t stand it. These are the moments that separate the greats from the really good drivers. People really need to stop getting mad at max for doing something that is within the rules still. Until the rules are changed there is no point in complaining. At the end of the day lando had the pace to overtake him and he couldn’t. McLaren failed lando by not telling him to give the position back. Instead of crying about it take a look in the mirror and see what you could’ve done better so that problem doesn’t occur again. McLaren is the team of the boy who cried wolf at this point. Stop blaming others because you couldn’t get the job done
Max is a dirty driver just like senna and michael. I can't deny that Max have been entertaining to watch until 2021, but i never really liked the way he attacks/defend. Clean racing is much better than taking advantage of inconsistent rules, that's why Alonso is my favorite driver and Ricciardo divebombs at redbull were so good.
The issue is the fia keep sucking the Dutch sausage, any other driver gets a penalty for doing what max keeps getting away with, if I'm a driver, I'm telling every other driver from now on that's how we race.
I don't care what anyone says, I don't like the "get out of my way or we both crash" approach to open wheel - and broadly open cockpit - racing. It's fine with touring, GT, stock car, pretty much anything else really. But a box ticking exercise that ends with a driver being forced wide trying to avoid potentially race-ending wheel or tire contact, I would argue, is a moment where in fact no racing even actually happened. It's like they all need to get in a big room with the FIA, call it something appropriate like The World Motorsport Council or whatever, and get this sorted over the winter. But that's difficult and the FIA doesn't like difficult.
Still grasping at straws...... what's the point of having umpires if everything you don't like a result become questionable..... Norris is just a prat.
Lifting off the brakes to ensure you stay ahead is extremely common. It happens at every race where a heavy braking zone exists, I can assure you of this.
From what I understand passing off the track is normally a 10 seconds penalty. Pushing a driver off the track is 5 Seconds. It's just dumb right now. Give Max his 5 and Lando his 10 seconds, and the problem is solved.
Piastri would be 3rd, Max 4th, and Norris 5th. Do we really want a podium change a week later to become the norm. The deal should be dead as soon as the stewards leave the racetrack.
@@KBowWow75The point is that drivers who keep doing this will finally realize that it is not ok. Changing the result post-finish isn't something we like to see, but we also like to see battles going on from corner to corner instead of being killed instantly by somebody who decides not to take a corner and force others off track, so... Besides, if they don't like changing the results, maybe they should try judging correctly in the first place.
@@PinkAsAPistolit was judged correctly as per the rules which are the problem. They need to amend the rules. And I agree once the podium ceremony is complete the results of the race should be locked.
Verstappen gained an advantage outside the track with Sainz similar to Norris. Sainz was first to the apex and Max kept his position by running very wide. 10 sec penalty. + 5 at the start when he forced Norris wide. Thats 20 second in total including yours.
@@hh-jy1ldShould the rules need to be saying that being ahead at the apex is only relevant if you are driving in a controlled manner and able to stay on track? Because they're already saying that. In fact, the stewards effectively admit that Verstappen should have gotten 5 seconds, only they naively turned that into a 5 second penalty for Norris instead of 10 that he would be getting otherwise. So I think it's just poor judgement. Also, your last point wouldn't work. What if they were unable to decide before finish? Just keep the result as is?
Great, Max get's penalized with a 5 seconds penalty for forcing Lando off the track Lando gets his penalty upped by the 5 seconds to 10 seconds for passing a car off track. And we're done.
its funny when it MAX it always the rear camera that they get and never the front facing camera same as Brazil 21 only the rear camera view which does nothing
@@KBowWow75 Cost cap breach Asymmetric braking Ride height device Fia sucking the Dutch sausage, is it no wonder he lead so many laps & races, me & you could have done the same with all those advantages.
All very boring. It is much more interesting just to look at the technical side rather than the sketchy management of race craft. Last week was the second time RB take out or wreck someone's race. (Perez took out Sainz, this alst time Verstappen was divebombing).
😂 I like as Stuart looked at Alex and said Hermanos Rodriguez.....I thought no he wasnt but still a doozy if you are playing Scrabble.. Is the new evidence that they found millions of motorsport fans were found out to have eyes?? Theyre not Stewards anymore more like Stewers....they mull over things for far too long and we end up with something that smells a bit funny.....😮😮
I always hate it when teams try to decide the championship pleading to the stuards to give someone a penalty. McLaren has had the fastest car for most of the season. Just drive it better and make better strategy decisions. Don't try to give someone a penalty a week after the race.
@@Hungary_0987 the penalty for Lando should have been 10 seconds for passing off the track and 5 Seconds for Max pushing a person off the track. Those are the normal penalty times.
Formula 1 has been very bad joke for decades. When you allow teams, manufacturers and drivers to run roughshod over the sport and the FIA and rules and regulations, this will certainly keep happening. Formula is no longer a professional sport, it is an extremely expensive version of the WWF on wheels! Also, massive inconsistency from race stewards have played a part. Formula E and WEC deliver better and more enjoyable racing than Formula 1.
The hate from British brodcasters towards Horner. He is easily the greatest british team head since Brawn .I'm just so surprised he isn't celebrated more. This comment is in regards to the odd little shot at horner when talking about Landos way of not answering a question. The presenter didn't Ike it and blamed Horner. It just seems so weird to me.
Seems like getting someone to admit that Norris doesn't deserve to be champion this year will be infinitely easier than getting you to admit that Verstappen should have gotten a penalty there
6:25 I don't get why everybody thinks that the rules would need to be changed for the stewards to have judged that Verstappen only stayed ahead at the apex by not breaking, not being able to stay on track and thus he also forced Norris off. It's already in the rules that a driver has to be in control. Verstappen isn't exploiting a gap in the rules as much as the stewards' inconsistency.
Not making track limits gets a warning before penalty. Max didn’t have any track limit warnings so it would have only been a warning.
@@scottb9868Forcing somebody off track to avoid a collision during an overtake attempt is not the same as simply failing to follow track limits while driving on your own
@@PinkAsAPistol he wasn’t forced off because he wasn’t ahead at the apex, at that point it was on Lando to give up and he didn’t.
He only was ahead at the apex because he decided to let off his brakes and not take the corner in a controlled manner
@@PinkAsAPistol he didn’t even lock the brakes up so not sure where you are getting he’s not in control. Just because he ran wide doesn’t mean he wasn’t in control running wide was intentional to do exactly what it did. Block landos momentum and shut him down or force him to go wide and have to give the spot back.
How's pushing your opponent off-track, while you also go off-track, not considered gaining an advantage?
Anyone may go off track, but you will get a warning.
In no instance it's allowed to overtake off track.
Driving repeatedly in a dangerous manner and others to avoid you all the time is punished with DQ or race ban
@@blamhokjeit should be applied to the situation not a separate violation.
He didn't keep the place or gain time.
What advantage did he gain exactly?
Lando passed him anyway, albeit illegally.
This is very reminiscent of Zanardi’s pass on Herta at Laguna Seca.
F1 has the onboard views, obviously they’re protecting themselves from the scrutiny.
I think they are going to try and make a case that Norris had technically overtaken Max before the braking zone and that Max was counter attacking rather than defending. If this was accepted then Norris held the position he had already taken, and Max had forced another car off the track.
One of the arguments made in Brazil 2021 was that Lewis didn't get his car fully ahead of Max before either of them hit the brakes.
From the camera views we've seen so far it's not clear if Norris ever got his whole car ahead before they hit the brakes. I believe that the new evidence proves Norris was fully ahead for the briefest of moments.
Edit: clarification of new evidence
The issue is the fia keep sucking the Dutch sausage, any other driver gets a penalty for doing what max keeps getting away with, if I'm a driver, I'm telling every other driver from now on that's how we race.
You can't pass off the track... It's a very solid simple rule... If he had given the place back, he likely would have passed Max at some point as his tyres were going... It was another bad call by McClaren and they are just trying to find anyway to correct their own mistake now.. They just aren't run well as a team and it's costing them. It has all season. The argument should be that Max should also get a penalty for forcing him off the track... That holds water.
Vercrappen knew exactly what he was doing. It was an intentional act that he deployed as he knew it was the only chance he had to stay ahead.
There is no drama to the championship so let's create some. How about calling out the driving standards in 21.....hmmmm, silence....gravel won't stop lunging.
Are Man Buns still a thing?
He looks like granny from the Beverly Hillbillies. Moreover, it enhances his feminine attributes. 😊
Probably a vegan too
@@jamestaylor447 Probably a toxic feminist too
The funny part is if Max touched Lando's car, he would have been the person receiving the penalty! This is how drivers should race with Max, it is not to give way and let max touch you!
Did they talk to Haas about the right to review. Didn't help them one bit but cost them money.
Shouldn't McLaren review their own pitwall for a change.
There was a time when crashing into another car risked death or serious injury.
Today's driver know they can risk a crash and walk away.
Nothing will happen from this. As much as I think the rules desperately need an update to stop people getting away with defending like that but they won't change this now
Mclaren should have appealed AFTER they should have instructed Lando to give the position back to Max and recaim 3rd.
Monumental FU.
Honestly I don't get it , it's against the rules to pass a car by leaving the track and gaining a advantage , Max obviously forced Norris off so it's up to the stewards to decide if that means a penalty
Verstappen wilfully left the track to prevent Norris passing him on the track, thus gaining an advantage
I think that the key point which shows the baffle on their reasoning is where they admit that normally Norris should have been given 10 seconds for overtaking off track, but Verstappen also forced him there so the penalty is reduced to 5 seconds. So instead of also giving Verstappen a penalty, they kind of made it into an offset for Norris' penalty, naively oblivious to the fact that for another time, it sends the message that Verstappen did nothing wrong.
what comes out of this video is: salads.
Mexico will be a circuit where ferrari will be having a 1-2. Forza ferrari and also Kimi Raikonnen, who is the coolest driver of all time.
Beyond a first world problem... Move on... He drove a bit fast in his race car 😂😂
Was that supposed to be piastri in face paint? Pretty sure it was pato oward. Also, UAP @ 5:21?
This is like mexico 2016 but its more annoying
It’s more annoying because of the Man Bun
This is sad when Michael and senna did these things in terms of racing to the limit of the rules it was fun to watch. But now that it is max doing it they can’t stand it. These are the moments that separate the greats from the really good drivers. People really need to stop getting mad at max for doing something that is within the rules still. Until the rules are changed there is no point in complaining. At the end of the day lando had the pace to overtake him and he couldn’t. McLaren failed lando by not telling him to give the position back. Instead of crying about it take a look in the mirror and see what you could’ve done better so that problem doesn’t occur again. McLaren is the team of the boy who cried wolf at this point. Stop blaming others because you couldn’t get the job done
The reason why crashtappen has acquired this nickname?
Max is a dirty driver just like senna and michael.
I can't deny that Max have been entertaining to watch until 2021, but i never really liked the way he attacks/defend.
Clean racing is much better than taking advantage of inconsistent rules, that's why Alonso is my favorite driver and Ricciardo divebombs at redbull were so good.
The issue is the fia keep sucking the Dutch sausage, any other driver gets a penalty for doing what max keeps getting away with, if I'm a driver, I'm telling every other driver from now on that's how we race.
yes crashing into others intentionally is such a peak sportmanship
I don't care what anyone says, I don't like the "get out of my way or we both crash" approach to open wheel - and broadly open cockpit - racing. It's fine with touring, GT, stock car, pretty much anything else really. But a box ticking exercise that ends with a driver being forced wide trying to avoid potentially race-ending wheel or tire contact, I would argue, is a moment where in fact no racing even actually happened.
It's like they all need to get in a big room with the FIA, call it something appropriate like The World Motorsport Council or whatever, and get this sorted over the winter. But that's difficult and the FIA doesn't like difficult.
Still grasping at straws...... what's the point of having umpires if everything you don't like a result become questionable..... Norris is just a prat.
Max’s braking telemetry he bleeds off the brakes … when he’s so tight to the corner
He drove purposely off the track and took Norris with him
It's allowed by the rules amendment. If the inside car goes off track, the outside car cannot pass off track if the inside car was at the apex first.
Nothing to do the apex he missed the braking zone on purpose
Learn the rules.. jeees.. and for the mclaren fans. Stop crying. My god.
Lifting off the brakes to ensure you stay ahead is extremely common. It happens at every race where a heavy braking zone exists, I can assure you of this.
Completely ridiculous to appeal a slam dunk penalty. Overtaking off track is ALWAYS a penalty.
why putting a photo of petez
From what I understand passing off the track is normally a 10 seconds penalty. Pushing a driver off the track is 5 Seconds.
It's just dumb right now. Give Max his 5 and Lando his 10 seconds, and the problem is solved.
Piastri would be 3rd, Max 4th, and Norris 5th. Do we really want a podium change a week later to become the norm. The deal should be dead as soon as the stewards leave the racetrack.
@@KBowWow75The point is that drivers who keep doing this will finally realize that it is not ok. Changing the result post-finish isn't something we like to see, but we also like to see battles going on from corner to corner instead of being killed instantly by somebody who decides not to take a corner and force others off track, so... Besides, if they don't like changing the results, maybe they should try judging correctly in the first place.
@@PinkAsAPistolit was judged correctly as per the rules which are the problem. They need to amend the rules. And I agree once the podium ceremony is complete the results of the race should be locked.
Verstappen gained an advantage outside the track with Sainz similar to Norris. Sainz was first to the apex and Max kept his position by running very wide. 10 sec penalty. + 5 at the start when he forced Norris wide. Thats 20 second in total including yours.
@@hh-jy1ldShould the rules need to be saying that being ahead at the apex is only relevant if you are driving in a controlled manner and able to stay on track? Because they're already saying that.
In fact, the stewards effectively admit that Verstappen should have gotten 5 seconds, only they naively turned that into a 5 second penalty for Norris instead of 10 that he would be getting otherwise. So I think it's just poor judgement.
Also, your last point wouldn't work. What if they were unable to decide before finish? Just keep the result as is?
Adding gravel would just help Max out
What is that guy even yapping about
Nothing wrong with the wings of mc 🤪
Great, Max get's penalized with a 5 seconds penalty for forcing Lando off the track
Lando gets his penalty upped by the 5 seconds to 10 seconds for passing a car off track. And we're done.
This is the correct verdict
And an extra 5 seconds for Lando. Exceeding track limits.
Hahahaha. When a Brit loses an ontrack battle against a non Brit… all of a sudden the rules aren’t correct anymore. 😂😂😂
its funny when it MAX it always the rear camera that they get and never the front facing camera same as Brazil 21 only the rear camera view which does nothing
Because Max was the lead driver. Everyone's chasing Max. They look forward if Max is chasing. Everyone's been chasing after Max for years.
Really? U question this? My god.
@@KBowWow75
Cost cap breach
Asymmetric braking
Ride height device
Fia sucking the Dutch sausage, is it no wonder he lead so many laps & races, me & you could have done the same with all those advantages.
All very boring. It is much more interesting just to look at the technical side rather than the sketchy management of race craft.
Last week was the second time RB take out or wreck someone's race. (Perez took out Sainz, this alst time Verstappen was divebombing).
😂 I like as Stuart looked at Alex and said Hermanos Rodriguez.....I thought no he wasnt but still a doozy if you are playing Scrabble..
Is the new evidence that they found millions of motorsport fans were found out to have eyes??
Theyre not Stewards anymore more like Stewers....they mull over things for far too long and we end up with something that smells a bit funny.....😮😮
I always hate it when teams try to decide the championship pleading to the stuards to give someone a penalty. McLaren has had the fastest car for most of the season. Just drive it better and make better strategy decisions. Don't try to give someone a penalty a week after the race.
They need to drop this now, it's ridiculous. It's supposed to be a race, get on with it.
They should not drop this down, as there are a bunch of consequences in the rules after this incident
The outcome isn't of value if there is no confidence it has been conducted in a fair and sporting way.
@@mr-nobody-on-youtubeit is of value. The penalty can be liftes and Norris has a chance again
they shouldnt drop it, they should get it right at any cost
@@Hungary_0987 the penalty for Lando should have been 10 seconds for passing off the track and 5 Seconds for Max pushing a person off the track. Those are the normal penalty times.
Will max ever be taken to task?
Nope 😂
Max is the FIa
No, he has too much dirt on big Ben
"Everyone had an opinion"
Very next sentence: "Liam Lawson didnt have an opinion"
Sums up how seriously we should take a couple of british muppets
It's not that deep brother. Maybe try to find a way to get them to pay for their rent in your head though
Haters gonna hate!
Get on with it. FIA will ruin this awesome season again.
Shame
Its Norris ' job to keep the car on the track
Don't be ridiculous - how can he do that when he's left no track to drive on?
@@peterthomas5792 dont go around?
So it’s ok to fly up the inside with no chance of making the corner without forcing the other car off track ?
@@davemis40 well.. is it ok to fly around the outside?
@@peterthomas5792 By braking early...
Formula 1 has been very bad joke for decades. When you allow teams, manufacturers and drivers to run roughshod over the sport and the FIA and rules and regulations, this will certainly keep happening. Formula is no longer a professional sport, it is an extremely expensive version of the WWF on wheels! Also, massive inconsistency from race stewards have played a part. Formula E and WEC deliver better and more enjoyable racing than Formula 1.
OH FFS!
Get back to RACING!
Without Max, Alexa doesn’t have a job.
Mclaren is a kindergarten and Brown Zakk is the kindergarten cop
The hate from British brodcasters towards Horner. He is easily the greatest british team head since Brawn .I'm just so surprised he isn't celebrated more.
This comment is in regards to the odd little shot at horner when talking about Landos way of not answering a question. The presenter didn't Ike it and blamed Horner. It just seems so weird to me.
indeed, as non european its so appalling! if Red Bull ever had a British multi champion, theyd lick his boots more than they did to the German boss 😂😂
Dont worry, Lando will be world champion, maybe next year, who knows...
Seems like getting someone to admit that Norris doesn't deserve to be champion this year will be infinitely easier than getting you to admit that Verstappen should have gotten a penalty there
My god this is so annoying 🫠
I think it’s annoying because Man Bun boy is the one speaking