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The Problem With Getting A Map Into TF2
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- Опубліковано 14 кві 2024
- What could go wrong when your scale of testing in TF2 goes from dozens to hundreds of thousands? Turns out, quite a bit.
A quick explanation of the challenges that can arise when mapper gets their project in and what you can do to help mappers make better maps, and help make TF2 a little bit better in the process.
A big fat disclaimer: This video is inherently coming from a place of privilege, getting a map in is an amazing feeling, and seeing players on that scale running around your map is incredibly affirming, this topic is only intended to explain the other side of things and hopefully get everyone on the same page.
Check out Baxter by nesman here:
tf2maps.net/do...
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Let me know what you think of this style of video, featuring a community map while I rant about a topic. I have a LOT of ideas for videos, but the visual side of things is usually the most time consuming part, so something like this would potentially let me crank more things out quicker.
The style is nice. If the video isn't directly talking about a map and needs to be seen for the point, it should work.
That also means more Crash content, which is always nice.
I like this style :)
I loved it! Fantastic to listen to.
^agree with above--the showcase/discussion style is a really neat way to both highlight a map, as well as discuss something with the community. i'd recommend throwing in some first person footage to show how a map feels when actually playing it!
Literally just new here - you popped up my youtube feed because i looking up hammer mapping last week. What you say makes sense
To those poor souls who had used Hammer Editor, you are like Sisyphus, except the boulder is glued at the bottom and the mountain is 90 degree steep upward.
Upward?
Steep?
@@uncertaintytoworldpeace3650 > badwater
The?
Psycho mantis?
Ha, amazing timing! I just did a birthday event with my Discord, and we played Shoreleave on Uncletopia. The whole time everybody was commenting how awesome a map it was, and how insane it is that it hasn't been added yet. I guess all we can do is make videos showcasing your work, and voting in the workshop...but who knows how much Valve even factors that in. Keep up the great work Crash!
Everything helps! Thanks for playing, glad it was well received!
Me trying to fix Camber forward spawns for 3 weeks
I respect the dedication regardless
Bro I love Camber it's a really good map
I remember when Cashworks got added, and things that never were broke before, just broke. Played the map for years, and suddenly the spawn barriers were gone.
Playing some in active development (alpha/beta) maps on community servers feels like a catch 22, it makes me want to try whatever I can to find things that could break, so it can be forwarded to the mapmaker, the earlier it is cought, the sooner it can be dealt with.
But also scared of the potential ban from said community servers for breaking server rules over using map exploits, for succeeding in finding those exploits to report, to begin with.
During my time working on TF2 stuff, like Slender Fortress, it made me to develop the mentality to think about the many possible ways a player could break anything within the map or within the gamemode itself.
While yes, it sucks that people will eventually discover flaws in your designs, it helps to sometimes put yourself in the mind set of a player that is seeking out said flaws.
Basically, proof reading your own work before publishing since it's not always the creation process itself that's the problem, but the said human element that gets introduced.
Honestly makes sense, always good to keep in mind the difference between you the maker may do and you as a player may do “can i make this jump” and so on and so forth
love this style of video! you honestly should talk more about this kinda stuff so more people understand how it works, it would be really nice to have more places to map test on honestly
I wish I could make decent TF2 maps, but holy cow it's difficult...
I think thats both the point and the fun part, learning the quirks and starting small is how every good mapper began. Try it out, get feedback, learn new stuff from everyone. Thats how it goes for a lot of things. I'd say keep at it. Who knows, you might end up making someones favorite map.
@@5hawnEX I've been trying that for 5 years lmao.
@@roberthunter6122 word, you shouldn’t let it get to you then since your prob gave it your best effort.
I spent a couple years mapping during the pandemic and it is indeed a long, difficult, thankless job. It's ultimately a lot fun and I plan to start back up soon, but I can't understate how unexplainably hard it all is. Not only is there a litany of technical challenges, balancing gameplay is extremely delicate and oftentimes very frustrating.
So I just want to echo just how crazy difficult it is to map. Not just to get a map in TF2, just make maps at all.
TBH after making and testing my own map I can understand how hard task is mapping in TF2
I like this style of discussion along side the maplogs, gives a show of a cool map and also gives a bit of show into your thought process with things, and honestly i think it would be good for the mappers to talk about how it works and such and why map testing is important or other topics
Awesome video essay. You should really do more of these!
Erm actually every mapper should know exactly where every single OoB point is, they built it. Get skill issue'd.
In all seriousness, I really appreciate this type of video. Leaving feedback can be a bit scary and seem futile, so giving us insight of how the community can help is great!
I didn't know about the map testing servers, that sounds awesome, think I'll try to join up on some of them.
crazy timing, because i'm currently working on a map that i hope i'll finish before summer. Thanks a lot for all your tutorials and this video
Style of this video is excellent, the fact that there's a community map in the background is very cool. Keep it up crash!
I'm glad you're somewhat back to making maps. You're an iconic and respect member of the community, and i really enjoy hearing about the niche things you discover as problems and have to say about them. I really learn a lot each time.
Love the video! As an additional tip I'd love to leave for other mappers: not all feedback is created equally. Make sure you carefully select what to change; someone may claim that a point is too hard to push or that a point needs less cover, when really what you need to change is something else completely that still addresses that feeling. And lastly, it's your map-- if youre going for a specific feeling and players don't respond well to it, while you don't have to adjust to their tastes you can at least learn from it and adjust elsewhere.
Definitely. Interpreting and implementing feedback as an entirely different skill from everything else.
hey crash! ive really appreciated your insights on mapping (both from a design and community angle). it really makes me appreciate the new maps that come into the game! (ps. are more gavle videos coming soon..?)
I'm so glad I grabbed a sub a while back to be able to see the mapmaker's perspective of this game; I appreciate your explanations as a casual player more than you prolly realize
The BEST kind of criticism are ones that actively try to communicate the problem in a polite way, rather than yelling at a wall. Give them information they can use to IMPROVE.
Also I despise this whole toxic mindset that workshoppers are trying to kill TF2 and are evil somehow. It’s made that place so toxic and unforgiving and most of the people making those comments never have and likely never will touch the hammer editor.
some workshoppers arent trying to "kill TF2" , theyre trying to kill TF2's already established artstyle
4:58 wth, that soldier totally ditched that medic :"(
Great video, liked the commentary format
Thank you for nailing it on the head Crash
Hi Crash! I have a question:
Since there's a big chance we're getting another Summer update this year, will you do another video that showcases some maps you thought had potential? Just wondering. Thank you and much love!
I've learned from valve and my own failings not to promise anything, lmao. Ideally I'd like to, though.
Good video. Thank you for sharing your insight. I enjoy your maps too thank you for your contributions.
Is Delfy impossible to convince/bribe to test out a map before it is sent to Valve? I wonder if he has a price.
@Leeloo_the_fox You know, you're absolutely right, and I completely forgot about that. If only there was a way to get people to report exploits they find to the mappers first and not Delfy. Or perhaps if we could get Delfy to not release his videos until *after* the mapper has a chance to fix the issue and Valve pushes the update out.
i don't think guys like that should be monetarily rewarded or bribed just for being dicks
I will always prefer the wonky 2007 map design of the game, they end to be the most fun and memorable for having certain chokepoints inspired by them. Super spammy, very hard to break sentry nests into, pushing with many uber charges, always seeing people fall to the one same sticky trap, and so on.
Aesthetically too, i don't mind seeing the same theme as Dustbowl or 2Fort. Would be like seeing an expansion of those maps. As if Counter-Strike had a de_dust3.
Loved this video! :D
great video, thanks for the insight crash :)
Awesome informative video! Though that camera was a bit too mobile I almost got motion sickness.
Noted! I was trying a way of speeding up recording, might have to try to do more first person next time
love the insider perspective
Im too scared to even consider making a "serious" map, that I want to get added officially to TF2 these days, I just make silly stuff for fun now, but I kind of miss trying to make cool maps that are fun gameplay wise too.
awesome and insightful video!
this video is very informative and it made me think about the maps I play
Farmed is a cool map it should get added
It was easy for me, John Dustbowl.
I think a lot of people don't make comments, posts or videos about a map in a respectful way because it gets less clicks. This true for basically everything regarding reviewing a thing. Unless it's a near perfect map from frame one like pl_pier, making a post like "THIS MAP IS BROKEN DOES VALVE EVEN PLAY THEIR GAME ANYMORE???" gets more attention than "This Map is pretty good, but has flaws". By clicks I don't just mean reddit karma and views, but in a circle of friends or small community being arrogant gets engagement more than being civil.
True.
just double check your displacements it cant be that hard if u can manage to keep ur shit on the griddy...
Rule of the masses. Even the most obscure thing will eventually get exploited, leading to imbalance and what not...
i love your videos, thank you for this :)
NUCLEAR REACTOR RAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Three Mile Island Team Fortress 2
Ooo cool!
Didn't know abt most do this :(
I'd like to think the person who releases the TF2 update is in the dark about when the update releases
Baxter goated map
cp_baxter the GOAT
I think this is the reason I’m interested in making maps that aren’t meant to be accepted into tf2. There’s no pressure to be perfect; instead you get to focus on the core identity of the map itself. Think of the case of mappers like Conne.
Community servers running community maps would help so much
The title is extremely different to the video content
The topic is about going from a small player testing base to a huge one, and showing how that can lead to the problems people see when a new map gets in game, explaining why you see problems that feel like they were obvious, but not found in testing before hand.
5:10 i feel like im being personally targeted for exploiting one sightline during a map testing session a couple of hours back. Great vid tho, nerd
I am heavy weapons guy and I approve of this video
That’s fine. Maps should be hard to get into the game. There’s way too many maps and most are complete junk
That's not what the video is talking about, and I agree there should definitely be a bar to hit quality-wise to get into the game :)
@@UEAKCrash ah
Wutville
The problem with getting Valve to care these days
The only reason maps get into tf2 at all is because Eric Smith cares about the game (atleast somewhat) and has too much seniority to be fired for touching TF2 like other people at Valve
GUYS i think its the community to blame. a youtuber said it in a video so it has to be true
lmao, I said so much more than how anyone is to blame.
@@UEAKCrash i only blame: some guys
I have no idea what you mean by any of this, at this point
first
pl_wutville incident
hey crash, i need some help with my tf2 maps, can u send a friend request and ill tell u the problem on steam?
Honestly, it's easier/ quicker for you to just go to TF2Maps with it, I'm not always available/ know the answer, so it's better to crowd source it
@@UEAKCrash I.C. thanks for the answer ;D
@@UEAKCrash that there is some good advice