UK is a great example of how reality makes the best fantasy stories
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- Опубліковано 19 чер 2024
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Josh Strife Says is the official Twitch clips/Highlights channel for Josh Strife Hayes. This channel features Best Moments of Josh Strife Hayes, Best of Tangent Tavern Podcast with Callum Upton and sometimes clips from Session Zero DND Group which Josh DM's (Dungeonmaster) for players RageDarling, BillieTrixx and Callum Upton. Josh often talks about multiple MMORPGS like World of Warcraft (WoW), Final Fantasy XIV (FFXIV), Guild Wars 2 (GW2), Runescape (RS3), Old School Runescape (OSRS), New World, Diablo, Path of Exile, Tera, Otherland and other games such as Skyrim, Oblivion, Dragon Age. Some of the best content of Josh Strife Hayes is his React videos with Asmongold reacts and Zepla.
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This video is a prime example how music can add tension to even the most normal conversations.
you basically explained 60% of mass effect's gameplay xD
it has to be GOOD music tho.
I wonder how this video would feel with the Deus Ex conversation music.
what's that song? i've heard it somewhere
We need a version with the Benny Hill theme!
WHAT? Don't tell me it wouldn't fit!
4 basic steps (from real life governments):
1. Tackle only minor inconveniences and non-issues. Politicians love to talk about big issues, but will only ever work on them if forced to (by the people or head of government).
2. Ignore expert opinions, so that the first few "solutions" fail. Then when they stumble into something that works, and finally use the expert advice, take full credit.
3. When forced to work on a real issue, always start by presenting an idea so stupid and incompetent that the people won't even let them try it. They do this to "save taxpayer money" and keep the problem around for their next campaign. An easy example is LA's homelessness crisis, where the last "idea" was to set up tents that cost $3500 per month to "upkeep", instead of building shelters or zoning for more housing...
4. "Budgeting issues". Have them waste a ton of money on stuff that doesn't matter, or could be done cheaply, and then say they don't have enough to solve problems.
Yes, this is actually how real life governments operate.
You can sum this all up with "conservative socioeconomics."
Also, make sure you have friends who work in consulting, and pay them to consult you on whatever you feel like doing. Tax money doesn't spend itself, after all.
@@shingshongshamalamaif you think the libs are better, think again. They just hate muslims and trans people 5% less, other than that they are the same.
@@shingshongshamalama it's far from just being a conservative thing I'm afraid
@@Candlemancer That depends. Do we consider a government which doesn't actually make any progress, "progressive"?
The fact that the government can turn around and sell land they've purchased via eminent domain is just wild...
It's worse than that. Land the government buys under a compulsory purchase order (eminent domain is the American one) has to be bought at a fair market rate. The land that was going to have HS2 built out up to Manchester was sold off under its market rate.
@@AshenVictor And if we ever have a government competent enough to finish the bloody thing, it would be easiest to follow the original path, meaning we'd have to buy it back again at reasonable market price.
is it me or is josh showing less chest hair these days? back to my third screen he goes...
you wild for this one
Jiggle physics.
we all want more josh chest hairs
Gone are the good old days…
If you are having trouble converting a modern form of government into a medieval fantasy world you can look at the Byzantium Empire. They had a bureaucracy that was so complex that we still don't know how exactly it works. There was government positions listed as, "The Special Boy." which was totally different than "The Super Special Boy" position. What did they do or how did they function? We don't know.
chances are they probably didn't know either.
Their government was so complex and dangerous that we literally use the word Byzantine in english to describe something overly complicated and clandestine.
That's how people will look at 21st century corporate hierarchy in the future. It's the same principle too, you get a title so that you can draw a paycheck.
@@zefft.f4010 21st century corporate hierarchies are pretty tame. Nothing compared to the Byzantines. Also a lot better documented.
@@SehrDummerAccountNam Depends on the company, I suppose. It's well documented *now* and still a quagmire of seemingly meaningless titles to an outsider - how much of that documentation will survive for a thousand years? Most of it is digital or on sheets of degradable paper at best. It'll be a minor miracle if any of it survives, which is basically the case for all archeology already. Byzantine bureaucracy is confusing because it was extensive (but no where near the extent of global corporations), most likely corrupt by modern (and possibly contemporary) standards, certainly nepotistic and we lack a lot of context and evidence. If all we had to go on to reconstruct corporate hierarchies were abbreviations and titles like "controller", "consultant" and "mystery shopper", I think we would be confused.
There was a lovely documentary about this.
"Yes Minister" and its sequel "Yes Prime Minister".
A wonderful glimpse into UK politics.
I rewatch clips of that to this day...
Mentioning the railroad system in Germany as a positive example?!
Ah, this wonderful innocence, this carefree attitude. Now, as a German, I want to pat his head and give him a cookie.
(The railroad in Germany is heavily underfunded since it is not profitable and thus slowly falls apart from age.)
Just privatise it like the UK did in that situation, what could possibly go wrong?
@@Aetherian1
It is in a way. The government holds all the shares in the company; but fulfilling the constitutional goal of enabling transportation everywhere in the country is not profitable enough.
They rather invest in business projects in other countries.
@@rosaecrux Also, because we Germans can't live without bureaucracy that makes everything less efficient and undermines the entire purpose of a thing, the company (Deutsche Bahn) has to pay for repairing existing infrastructure, while the government has to pay for building entirely new stuff. This means in many places existing rails fall into disrepair and some of the technology hasn't been updated since the 50s, and all money that is invested goes into mostly unnecessary things. The funny part is because it's a company, it's legally required to maximize profits for the shareholders (who are, as you said, the government), so they literally can't spend money on repairs unless it's deemed absolutely necessary. We've essentially taken a functioning system we have direct control over, took away the control we had, sold part of it back to ourselves, then used that partial control to ensure nobody can really do anything. All while losing billions at every step and still needing the government to fund the company.
still better than uk. let that sink in. uk is where germany us headed if neolibs/ fascists get their hands on the reign
I can't believe the French managed to make the best system out of the three wtf
If you need a master class example of what Josh is talking about, watch the movie Ikiru. It's the heroic tale of a dying man spending the last few months of his life trying to get one minor action item through a bureaucracy.
I do a weekly 40k RPG, and whenever we have trouble envisioning how a local Imperial government will do anything, we imagine its GW running it. And its pretty accurate.
Likewise if we run into a petty gang, we imagine its Creative Assembly managers (we have a few ex-devs), and yup very loreful.
Then if we need a particularly spitefully and incompetent inquisitor or arbites, who is up himself, we just pretend its our regional manager (who happens to be from the UK.
See the trend?
Germany is not the best example for low bureaucracy .. or fast and punctual trains.
For anyone who lives in the UK they are. Thats how bad we got it here.
They have slipped.
@@EarlHare Uff thats hard.
In terms of rail infrastructure, DB beats most of East Europe; it humiliates the UK; and kicks the USA's ass down the stairs, shoves it in a locker, and takes its lunch money. That's how bad.
@@Wampa842 DB humiliates the UK by running a good portion of our public transport badly.
ok since josh apperantly doesnt know about the burocratic nightmare that is germany, i will just put the new Berlin Airport and Frankfurt 21 here as examples. Both took so long to build thanks to many issues one of them being burocracy, that then new policies were made, which made the two projects in some parts ilegal to be built the old way. so they had to replan and rebuilt these parts and this has been going on for years now. there is a satire show called "Der wahre Irrsinn" (roughly translated to "the real Insanity") where they show just at how many point german politics and burocracy just fails. like the last episode i watched was about a newly built public indoor swimming pool, that has such high entry fees, that noone (especialy the local swimming club and WATER RESCUE for training) can financially afford to use it. it is cheaper to take the entire teams to another pool 45 minutes away per BUS.
I saw a video about the worst mega projects that mentioned that airport. The Germans in the comments could point even more crazy stories.
Thx for teaching our german burocratic mess xD
You don't understand. For someone from UK, your "nightmare" is "phew I can't believe it was that quick".
It's that bad.
*Stirbt in Fremdscham über die Wahrheit in dieser Ausführung*
Yeah we have some struggles, then again, all countries have those. It just happens when something is so big that multiple big players have a stake in it. That’s just normal. It’s even worse in other countries where corruption is on a whole other quality and quantity.
Anthropologist David Graeber and archaeologist David Wengrow talk a lot about the Three Systems of Domination. These are ways that power gets entrenched in ways that ultimately harm the entire populace, including the ruling class (albeit usually to a much lesser degree than the lower classes).
These are Sovereignty, Bureaucracy, and Political Theater.
Sovereignty is having a defined border and a monopoly on viilence within it. Which is to say having specialized police and military who answer to the ruling class rather than having community-led militias (which are actually more effective than militaries at defending against external threats), so as to facilitate the repression of the populace.
Bureaucracy is the sequestering of important information in specialized hands to facilitate the creation of rules that are nominally equal but patently unfair. For example Jim Crow voting laws where to vote you had to pass a test, but the questions were specifically about White culture, or were ambiguously phrased so that it could always be arfued that a Black person answered wrong. Thus even though the right to vote was in principle universal in practice it was anything but. In the US any natural-born citizen over age 35 can run for president, but in practice it's so expensive to do so that only the wealthiest elites have a hope of getting in. Bureaucracy gets way worse once it's entrenched, but in order to justify its existence it needs to create the core pretence that it's more fair than it actually is. And the sequestration of information is necessary to prevent the formation of competing non-bureaucratic power structures and public awareness of how stupid and non-functional the whole arrangement is.
And Political Theater is a focus on pageantry over actual policy. Elections are a popularity contest, nothing more or less, even if they pretend to include substantive policy debates. Other cultures rely on other mechanisms like religious ceremony (eg the Divine Right of Kings in Europe) or sport (eg the ball game in Mesoamerica) or showy philanthropy (eg Roman bread and circuses and every billionaire since Carnegie's money-laundering charitable foundations) that accomplish the same function of propping up a certain class regardless of actual merit.
Your society only needs one of these systems of domination to get really stupid and non-functional. And because of that, and public vigilance against encroachment, it's actually pretty rare for cultures to acquire additional systems of domination. The first culture in the anthropological record to have all three forming a unified system is the Inca Empire in the early 15th century. Most empires and other repressive governments in history have only had one or two, though all modern states today use all three.
When you have all three you get a real doozy. In Josh's ecample of the English railroad you have Bureaucracy creating an awful web of unnecessarily complicated regulations that have to be navigated, the Political Theater of the election cycle incentivising the blocking of progress by certain people at certain times, and Sovereignty to enforce the use of eminent domain. Because there are so many systems of domination in action, each one can keep a relatively light touch where no individual system needs to throw much weight around, allowing the government to pretend it's way more legitimate and functional than it actually is while also maximally curtailing ways for the public to evade or work around its influence.
We here in Cambridge MA just heard that the local power company (which had been fighting with MIT) is going to build an underground set of cables to connect up and manage their various sub-stations so that local power needs can be met.... at a cost of 2 Billion dollars under a 40 year plan.
Yeah 40 years, to build tunnels some 11 stories underground, along with transformer step stations to handle load balance etc thru the city... which of course will be burdened on us the property holders and renters who use electricity. It will take them a decade to get it operational on any level.
It runs slowly...
Out of curiousity, why so deep?
It's funny how he's having this conversation during a playthrough of a game where the officer at the dock waves you through and fast tracks your re-identification, simply because of how slow coming back from the dead is thanks to all the bureaucratic bullshit.
Intrigue and conflict from bureaucratic hell is good and all, but I think it would be even better if you managed to scare the party because something came up that was so important and so serious that now the committees are just agreeing or the committees were dissolved entirely. I draw on personal experience; I started going to the doctor because I started to have a bit of trouble breathing. Got some tests over the span of a couple of weeks, nothing really concrete came back and nothing got better. Then, he suggests getting a CT scan and an x-ray. From the time I got the results back and I found "possible signs of lymphoma" written on that results page, I was in the hospital within the week and through my first round of chemotherapy within 18 days. It is horrific how fast things can move when something grave comes up.
3:34 Its funny he mentions germany, as if we didnt take ages to build certain train stations/airports/the hamburg elbe philharmonica. All my life there has been a highway build towards my hometown, then they realized the planned route cuts VERY close to an area under environmental protection because of a huge colony of bats, stalling everything, causing a huge amount of conflict between planners and environmental protection agencies/surveyors. Germany LOOOVES bureaucracy
In my government class they taught us that bureaucracy is not designed for efficiency but designed for creating jobs, as is evidently seen in how DMVs function
That's not true either. Bureaucracy is designed to cover people's asses.
This stuff happens on smaller scales too. The town I live in was trying to get a circle/roundabout built for years, years, and only a couple years ago did they finally build the damn thing.
yeah, germany has a high speed rail, the problem over here is that their house is burning and they proceeded to add some nea looking stones at the sides of the walkway. At least partly thanks to the same old buerocrazy bs song.
josh...i'm an italian living in london...the Uk gov is surely up there with the worst management in modern times...but don't quote italy as a good country for bureaucracy and compare the schedules on building a train line.....it takes us 30 years just to agree, get the funding, see the funding stolen, re-assess the project, call an early election, disband the commitee, and use the proposal again in the next election.
we managed to build one high speed train, and we called it a day.
14 years of tory rule 🎉
Luckily, Germany has bad examples too. There was a tunnel to the city I graduated in, which had been a construction site years before I graduated - and it still is. By the time they're finished on one side it's time to renovate the other. I cannot for the life of me remember a single instance passing through that tunnel where all lanes on both sides were usable. I think it must have been at least 2 decades by now, maybe even more.
Or for example, the eastern Bundesländer received millions, nay billions to fix infrastructure after the country was reunited (and eventually so did the main providers for net coverage, such as Telekom, to provide better quality connections for telephone and internet). The money disappeared, the issues persisted. The real question is, how much of it got wasted on bureaucracy, and how much embezzled. Alas!
I think government land grabs are also possible in Canada.
In the U.S. as well. We also have Eminent Domain
Literally every government has this, because sometimes a million people *need* specific infrastructure built and you need to be able to compel that one stubborn guy to sell the bit of land it needs to be built across. Much as it sucks for the individual and has potential for abuse, things would be much worse if people (or corporations...) could completely block essential public infrastructure work by refusing to sell the necessary land.
4:45 doesnt the new governement just emminent domain a sieze the land back again?
In theory yes, but that then involves another whole load of bureaucracy that can take up to 6 years.
HS2 wasn't really ended by just bureaucracy, it was southern NIMBYs.
I spit my morning when you referred to Germany as "great idea, let's make it, yep great country" 😂
We here have exactly the same mechanisms, there are tons of comedy sketches describing exactly this nonsense with the building of wind power plants in the recent years. So rejoice, UK is not alone with dumbass politicians -.-
Yeah it's one of those things where you see someone else has done something so you assume they solved this problem, but the answer is usually, "nope, they just went through this special circle of hell before us"
Wait what!? They sold the land to friends?
Im ive been out of the uk for a while, from just outside manchester and its just been infuriating to watch.
That plus when i used to travel to manchester on the old pacer trains where a joke. The face the replacement are just old tube trains is also a slap in the face to the north when it comes to transport.
If you want to see the absolute best and most entertaining (and probably most accurate) version of this kind of bureaucratic farce, watch 'Yes, Minister' and it's sequel series 'Yes, Prime Minister'. Hysterically funny, clever, and witty classic British TV comedies mostly about the people in government whose job it is to make sure everyone is as busy as possible specifically so that nothing ever gets done.
Josh I've just been plodding along not really paying attention with the thought of HS2 being 'i don't know how but the government is being stupid somehow' and now i know a little bit of how and my day is ruined.
I love that, whenever a honest person who only wants the best for their neighbors appears, they are kicked, smeared, or forced out of political roles due to strategies that don't help anyone but the two main guilds who've been competing against each other for power for decades now.
Definitely not a centuries old setting of castle rulers acting selfish against their people in order to keep their power intact for years to come, all while pretending that it is so they can have the resources to defend their people in times of need.
"If you want to make a system of government that doesn't do anything, just make a normal system of government" Well fuck me if that isn't spot on
I need more Josh TTRPG takes in my life.
UK is an excellent example that there is misunderstanding regarding genres: Horror is not a subgenre of Fantasy ;)
The bureaucracy is expanding the meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy.
so the high speed rail no 2 in the UK is the UK equivalent of the berlin airport and the metro in thessaloniki?
UK sounds like a fun place for people who actually want to do things.
Oh Josh...The "public works" project is only there as a "reason". Their "office job" is the bureaucracy, and so they don't want their jobs to end by solving the project.
Came for Josh, stayed for music ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Ah HS2.
"We'd like to make the country a better place."
"Yes, but an old aristocrat is het up about the view and the potential for the wrong kind of people to move in."
"Well, fuck."
"Also the people heading the project are massively corrupt."
"Well, obviously."
Random stabbings, theft and barbarians at the gate. Coupled with terrible weather? Yup that's Greyhawke.
You're right, but for the wrong reasons. HS2 Phase 1 has been 95% finished for around a year now (the remaining 5% being mopping up duties like putting Pret a Mangers in the termini). Network Rail, the group actually in charge of construction, has finished the task, but is being literally blocked from testing or opening it by the Byzantinian bureacracy you speak of.
A better analogy would be that the statue supporters, land owner, stonemasons, and city fathers all agree to the plans, have built the statue, but the King and his entourage are too distracted by court intrigue and delicacies to officially approve/unveil the statue, so despite it being finished and ready to go, it remains under a tarpaulin for the next six years until the King and his entourage have resolved their petty squabbles.
Then when they finally come to unveil the statue the King pulls off the tarpualin, sees that in the intervening six years it has become covered in grime, declares it unfit and disgusting, and orders it to be pulled down.
Bureaucracy can run on a minimal budget. They have spent millions lining their pockets.
Part of me can't quite shake the conspiracy theory that those large infrastructure projects are just a legal money laundering scheme.
Also, you saying that Germany has an efficient high-speed railway network is hilarious.
Lets be fair to the UK on HS2, we haven't spent 14 years and millions apon millions failing to build a single high speed rail line. We have had a very succesfull tory party in power for 14 years who directed a huge amount of tax payers money seemingly only go in smoke (and mirrors) to a small handfull of wealthy companies/individuals.
We got exactly what we paid for on this one. Much wealthier incredibly wealthy people and a tiny little bit of train track that is essentially useless for fast trains
I started treating the USA releated news as SITCOM or Reality TV
Its funny, the US thinks the UK knows how to do government right while the UK is like "mate wot? We suck at it." :D.
Political gridlock is actually really good government when you're in a good situation, the UK is only failing now because it's a dying glorified-city-state and it now needs action instead of preservation. But even then, the UK's gridlock has prevented anything near as bad as the US's "about to elect a guy who's been trying really hard to become a literal dictator" situation. Just the existence of the vote of no confidence is huge, it means the prime minister has to retain the approval of at least half the commons.
They do?? In my experience most Americans that think at all about any government besides their own show nothing but mockery.
@@Candlemancerin my own experience it’s the opposite of that, I know lots of people in America that think our government is a joke
i as a german had a heated debate with a chinese about communicst chinas politics, and i said from my standpoint of values and laws as a german, that it is again human rights that a government comes along and says "hey we need ur land, here is some random sum of money which does not even recompensate the livelihood we are destroying by expelling u but who cares, and now off you go!" ----- well if i had known that modern day UK is the same as communist china, (and if the chinese would have known that) my arguments were even less effective than they already were in this narrowminded conversation 🙈 ... hail our first basic law: the human dignity is untouchable -- which protects one of such despotism
Wait, they can eminent domain land from the public, but not from a politician's friend?
maybe they can, but politician's friends tend to have a lot more money and connections and can start throwing lawyers at the problem, claiming some document is missing in the process or something similar. Such things can delay the process and make it much more expensive, so it's not done as readily. I'm merely spitballing though, maybe the process is very clear-cut.
As a german, you´re giving us waaaaay too much props. Our government is just as much of a bureaucratic shitshow as yours...
I feel like there was a second layer to this question, where OP wanted to portray an incompetent and incapable bureaucratic body, but he was confused when attempting to portray it because he can't reconcile it's incompetence with how it managed to succeed to be a political power to begin with. And the answer to that is essentially, it doesn't succeed. The reality generally is that the incompetent bureaucratic state comes about after the power has already been gained and the powerful political body begins to stagnate. It's why the vast majority of powerful empires/kingdoms came about from the drive and ambition of a single person or small body of like minded people pushing through without regard for the opinions or desires of a larger body.
Including religious bigotry also works really well. In the said Statue example, you want to put it up, but a local temple priest objects because such a structure will insult their deity in some way. So now the committee for religious pacification has to be brought into the mix, as you have a fantasy world with a whole pantheon of (in theory) REAL gods, who can actually take actions if they get pissed off. So now you have to deal with that extra layer of nonsense.
Nah it's best not to get bigotry involved, because then players will interpret it as a bigotry problem when what you were really trying to emphasise was just an organisation being too bloated for its own good, and the perceived solution changes from "Find a way to do it without the bureaucrats agreeing" to "Get rid of the bigots".
@@yurisei6732 yeah - and let's face it, the table will descend into a discussion of whether it is really bigotry if the god in question will actually take offense and start being all wrathful.
Needs more Dakka
Em..
They took years to build tracks here, because everyone wants to have a say where, how and if to build it. Germany has too much bureaucracy.
Damn, thought I was listening to Ron Swanson, turns out it was just Josh
Sounds like you need leadership.
Our Gov is a mess : (
You cant....i wish we could.A simple explanation of things wrong....but it wont change.Like a hamster in a wheel.
Politicians aye. Gotta love em. Biggest bunch of letdown since. Politics existed.
I mein Josch, I feel a bit mocked if you give us german credits for the Deutsche Bahn.
But in you mean it.... I pitty britian
These more to the HS2 problem, part of which is the civil war in the Conservatives party. That’s why they switched so quickly.
What the UK is doing is basically what China is doing, but on a lower scale.
4:44 Why couldn't the next government just eminent domain the land again from the people the original government sold it to? Does it just take too long? I would certainly feel a lot better about forcing the sale from these crooks than some honest farmers.
They do use Eminent Domain to get it back, but it takes time and the crooks make money from it because the previous goverment sold it to them on the cheap, that's why they agreed to buy it in the first place.
I take it you're not voting tory then hehe.
This video made me mad. I'm trying to relax from work 😂
Dont forget to add a tiny super minority to your kingdom that inexplicably holds all the highest positions of power and you get treated like you're crazy if you ever point it out
"Bureaucracy" is the politically correct term for "Corruption"
boy, reality sounds really sometime like fiction! i dont know if thats a good thing. but in your example, its terrible! XD