SPOILER (from movie) . . . : : : : Maybe they did not changed Medivh's possesion by Sargeras, since Garona mentioned that she heard a voice resembling "ash and flame" (or something like that) speaking to guldan ... so hopefully Sargeras will be there, since we want Arthas story ! and Illidan story too in movie :D
There is a big chance we will se arthas in the future movies but he can only be a minor part of the movie since the triology will end on where warcraft 3: reign of chaos scenarios ends. and he can be really easy to replace with a random death knight since he is only serving kel'thuzad while he is summoning archimonde into azeroth.
I think they haven't decided how to tell the story about Medivh's corruption yet. One thing was clear to them, if they were to mention Sargeras, it would be pointless without explaining what Sargeras is, what his intentions are, what he is, etc. So for now they went with a simple Fel Magic corruption plot, and they can easily expand on that in a sequel, revealing that Medivh was controlled by Sargeras through Fel magic. It's the same thing as being possessed, it has the same flavor to it. This goes for other parts of the movie as well. They made the movie already very complicated so some parts are left vague, to be expanded in a future movie.
I do believe Sargeras is still being used for one very reason - The fact that Medivh had moments where he did not remember what he'd done. That, to me, means Sargeras took over, as he did in The Last Guardian. Fel magic is corrupting, true, but it doesn't give you split personality disorder. So the only explanation for that I can see is Sargeras's influence.
Yes and we saw the demon he turned into and Khadar (spelling?) had to be going "what the hell?" when he saw it. I think it will come out in a future movie maybe.
I think Sargeras is still being used. They just are keeping him a sort of major plot point for possible future movies. If they where to mention Sargeras in the film it would have crammed to much in. They did not mention demons (by name) at all, which I suspect again they are saving that. They did not even use Ner'zhul. I think Ner'zhul, Sargeras, things like that are being saved for a possible sequel because if there is ever a time to dive into them it is not the 1st war, but hopefully the second.
This is true. I was thinking more along the lines of major demons. Like Archimode, Kil'jaden and Sargeras, or at least mentioning them by name. Though we my have to wait till the 3rd war movie if their will be one, to see Archimode and Kil'jaden. The 3rd war is such a big event compared to the first two I don't even know how they would fit everything that happens into one movie.
Exactly, so I think it is safe to say Sargeras is definitely still a thing in this movie universe. I made a rely earlier that said when I say "mentioned" them I was really referring to mentioning them by name. That is a mistake on my part I could have been clearer
In one of the "Leaked" Videos of the warcraft movie there was a scene where Grommash was in a circle of orcs, telling them of "Gul'dan's gift" It was cut from the movie since I didnt see it. But im sure it will be in directors cut.
Most people clearly didn't noticed that in guldans tent is picture of him and mannoroth. The voice of fire and ash garona was hearing was mannoroth. There is a behind the scenes book of Warcraft called "Warcraft: Behind the Dark Portal" it explains a lot and shows pictures of deleted scenes.
I much prefer having Demonic energy and a Lord of Demons, aka Sargeras being the thing that is corrupting planets. Without it, a lot of the Warcraft lore falls apart and is cheapened, I feel. However, them removing it explains why Dalaran is already floating, since they can't have Archimonde destroy the city, because demons don't exist. I feel it also doesn't bode well for the story of Arthas and his corruption, since they would have a hard time explaining away the Lich King and the undead as just being a "different form" of the Fel. The Scourge would have to be yet another made up thing affecting the world for some unexplained reason. That's the nice thing about the Demon Lord Sargeras and the Eredar Lords Kil'jaeden and Archimonde. They tie everything together so nicely. Gul'dan's death looking for the Eye of Sargeras, Ner'zhul and the Scourge meant to take Azeroth for the demons, Arthas's corruption, the War of the Ancients with the Night Elves and the Dragonflights, the Titans, aka the Makers and the Old Gods of Azeroth. They are all connected and spawn from the origin of the Universe, as opposed to being this unknown force that corrupts and kills.
I was annoyed that they made Med'ivh Garona's father. I do think that it was still the Avatar of Sargeras at the end though. The movie followed the lore as it was in the original RTS. There was a demon there, but it wasn't given explanation until later games. It's easy enough for them to learn about the war of the ancients in later films.
Nobbel87, I just realized, Blizzard really should Hire you to be apart of the Warcraft story writing team! The theory's you have and the way you make everything connect is like you already are working for Blizzard :D Thanks a lot for your Videos, you always help when I have answers on Lore :D
>Movie released world wide Sitting here in Australia waiting another 5 days.. 5 DAYS!! But my golly gosh - Christie Golden is a goddess in my eyes and I want everything Warcraft she has ever done.
I really hope we get a sequel. Again with two stories, one of Ner'Zhul on Drenor and the other on Azeroth of the Silver Hand. Thet would flow nicely into the third movie about Arthas and Thrall.
I think i could like the movie if i hadn't read any of the novels or paid much attention to lore but it's what really got me into warcraft in the first place :\ overall i don't dislike the movie but i can't like it.
I think that they might expand to the titan/demon/whatever with guardian in the future because even in it's current stat it is a massive info dump for someone unfamiliar with the universe.
I think the whole Medihv story in the movie is still ultimately like his story in the lore (mom, dad, Sargerous, etc) same with Khadgar and a few others and in the end their big lore moments we will see but the studio wants to wait to go through all those stories until we have a more established movie universe kind of like marvel has done. Once we do the basic stories we can do crazy thinks like the legion. I really enjoy your videos and am a fellow lore buff with dreams of starting my own channel. Keep up the good work man
Removing Sargeras entirely cuts out so much of the backstory of Warcraft. The Draenei also become pointless since, if Medivh was the one that taught Gul'dan alone, there is no connection to the Burning Legion. I still hold on to hope that Sargeras was left out of the first movie to simplify the plot, and that the driving forces behind the scenes are still Sargeras/Kil'Jaeden. We just didn't learn of them yet. The form Medivh took in the tower scene was quite specific and there wasn't a viewpoint character with knowledge of Sargeras to identify him. Lothar would not know him and Khadgar is quite a shitty wizard.
Spoiler Question: Who was the strange shadow figure that helped khadgar? Was it really Alodi/the first guardian? If yes, why did they change him into an old woman and why is she imprisont in this cube/shadow realm? That character really confused me and it was so fast introduced and gone in like 2 minutes...
She is named Alodi in the movie. They changed many things, such as instead of the first guardian, she exists long before the Kirin Tor and serves similar to "the Guardian" (Khadgar instead calls her "the Protector"). As for the cube, I think it is used to sustain her beyond her age. As for why female, maybe to give impression of Aegwyn? In her last sentence the voice turns to male at the end and even Antonidas refers to Alodi as a he.
***** Alodi is looooong dead in the game even during the first war. Changes in the movie like that really bothered me, it doesnt even really serve the movie while making its own thing since it just confuses people all the same if you throw something like that in the movie for like 5 minutes without explanation.... I love the story of the game but i thought the storytelling of the movie, espacially the pacing was one of the lowest of the low this year....
I suspect that Alodi is the movieverse version of Aegwynn with a different name that is still taken from Warcraft lore but possibly less well known? The sequels might even reveal that Medivh was Alodi's Son all along conceived for similar reasons (movie lore can still end up being expanded on or retconned). Because, not only was she female, but she also mentions using "the last of her powers" to help Khadgar (sounds a lot like Aegwynn using "the last of her powers" to resurrect Medivh in the game lore).
Typanoid i dont know they could have scrapped that from the movie completly in my opinion and if they had to put her in the sequel. I mean what was her/his (what ever) actuall porpose being in this movie? So that khadgar could (*SPOILER*) redirect the Fel Magic from Mediv somewhere else because he remembered 1 sentence she/he said? Same could have been adchieved with almost every other already known character/some exposition.
You're completely right of course, I only mentioned it because I got heavy Aegwynn vibes from movie Alodi, and with the film being so full of easter-eggs and references, I kinda speculated a bit rampantly, because anything could happen in a movie universe. The more likely outcome, though, is probably that she has been dropped entirely as you say.
I liked the movie for sure but the story changes are kind of meh. What I think they could do for Medivh is show that during his travels through the various worlds (before he finds Draenor) comes across some strange alien creature that appears benevolent. Offering him power and knowledge the creature offers him a pact. That pact allows a piece of Sargeras to inhabit his body in exchange for power. After this the benefactor pushes Medivh towards Draenor and Gul'Dan. After this they reveal that the benevolent creature is Kil'Jaeden in disguise and thus ties the Burning Legion back into both the Azeroth and Orc (revenge against the Draenei) stories while playing up the demon trope and Kil'Jaeden as the Deceiver.
I think and hope that they will acknowledge Sargeras as being the one who corrupted Medivh and the orcs but, that they'll wait until the 2nd sequel to this movie
Maybe Sargeras is Fel. The Fel would work like a parasite with the difference of having that parasite all be apart of the same being. In other words, those contaminated by it and using it en masse could be subject to Sargeras influence. The more they use, the more he can reach in. The mana pool at the top of Karazhan I believe was the manifestation of the lay-line below (Isn't Karazhan on one of those, like the Occulus and others?) and it empowered the Fel to summon Sargeras in the same way Kil'Jaeden was summoned by the Sun-Well but on a lesser scale because the pool was weaker and it only worked because he was partially present on the other side through the Fel within Medivh. If we follow that logic, Gul'Dan might end up being used to summon him as well. My biggest issue with the movie is that with Gul'Dan being teinted and not Ner'Zhul being tricked, Ner'Zhul has no real reason to become the lich king, there will be no race to the Frozen Throne between Arthas and Illidan, there will be no plague, there will be no Sylvanas Banshee Queen, There will be no Illidan retreating to Outland after his failure, We might never get to see Anub'Arak, or even Northrend for that matter. If they don't go to Northrend, there is no ascenssion of Garrosh. With no ascenssion of Garrosh there is no need to stop him after he collects powerful artifacts across Pandaria, we might see Pandaria because it was found randomly, but I doubt we'll have the same kind of war there. Also this means no time travel (that might be a good thing :p) so there is no changing history. Actually, I wonder if Thrall would give the lead of the Horde to Garrosh despite him not earning it through his deeds in Northrend when the Earthen Ring calls upon Thrall. He might, or he might directly give it to Cairne or Vol'Jin. Either could be quite interesting. I don't know whether I like the movies detaching so much from the game lore because on one hand every little change can have massive rippling effects, or if it might be more interesting to see it all go in a whole different way to have surprising and interesting stories.
I really hope that there's going to be a sequel. Despite the movie's 'flaws', I enjoyed it! Who knows? Maybe one day we'll see Arthas on the big screen too! >:D
The way that Medivh looks when he turns into that Sargeras-like demon was only one of two hints at Sargeras being behind it all. The other is in the scene where Garona is in a cage in Stormwind and Medivh is talking with her, she tells him that the voice who urged Gul'dan to come to Azeroth sounded "like burning fire" or something along those lines... If that doesn't sound like the Big S Man then I don't know what does
I think it was "Sargeras" mostly because Mediev was corrupted by a part of the avatar of Sargeras (if I remember right), so that corruption would be why he takes a Sargarian form. Now, I don't think they mentioned it because, holy crap explaining the Legion, Sargeras, and Med's history would have taken an hour and derailed the whole movie. But as far as it goes, if we have a sequal, part of what could happen is Kadgar, attempting to figure out how to understand and fight the Fel, dives into research. He finds out the history of Mediev, finds out about his mother, the fight with Sargeras's avatar, and learns about the burning legion. Not as anything more than research, but setting up for another sequal and giving answers as to how to defeat gul'dan. Movie two ends with Gul'dan dead, and Khadgar taking the skull of Gul'Dan to the Tomb of Sargeras and the first horde defeated. And then, years later with the horde subdued, the legion introduced, the Third movie drops us with the events of Warcraft 3, with the formation of the modern Horde, the destruction of Lorderon, and the Rise of Arthas. At least, that's how I'd play it.
To add to the conversation of the corruption of Medivh, if they want to make more Warcraft movies, and if the movies eventually reach Lordaeron and the Arthas storyline, it may be possible to change it to avoid explaining Sargeras and the Burning Legion but, given the difficulties of taking the source material so loosely, I think they will explain Sargeras as the origin of the fel in future movies and proceed telling the story of the creation of the Lich King, to establish him as an entity.
Nobbel, I have been a fan for your videos for years. I love Lore and the stories, and you are the king of such~ In the circles I run, everyone bows to your knowledge as being 2nd to blizzard official posts. I hope to meet you one day~ I would be so honored, and to converse with you about the game I love so much. I am an Rper, who plays as a mage on the Server Wyrmrest Accord, ogrinally from MG, and I have been playing since Beta with nearly all of my career being that of mage with over 500 days in /played completed. Anyways, I tip my hat to the master and confess my dream to fanboy meet you one day. Even in game if given the chance~ TY TY for all your work and everything you have done over the years. Tanirus.
As for Medivhs corruption there is actually a very subtle reference to the source material of Medivh's corruption by Sargeras and a suggestion that they will be following that lore far closer then it first appears . And it comes down to Kadgars meeting with "Alodi" . While I understand that the film(s) are doing their own interpretation , did none think it was rather odd that Alodi is represented as female ? I find it odd that if they are looking to ret-con things to bring everything in line and remove hypocrisies that they would have Alodi female in the film but then remain male in the legion expansion. We know that the female before us in the film is a guardian, to me her tone suggested more than simple instruction to kadgar, and certainly from the short passage of text you read from the novelisation for this encounter she sounds some what regretful maybe ? Did anyone else notice that her eyes were also glowing green ? And how many female guardians were there? if my memory serves correct would I be right in saying there was only one ? Are we maybe not getting Aegwynn being introduced but as a reveal for another film? (after all throwing medivhs mother in at that later stage in the film would open one hell of a can of worms ) After all from her point of view the text could still read true , medivh could have been set true to his path of mastery of the magics only to be slowly swayed by the promises of greater understanding by the voices in his head . slowly giving more and more control to sargeras until he had unwittingly given him his free will ? plus I do also find it interesting that it is only after the meeting with alodi that kadgar refers to medivh as a demon. " We have a demon to kill " . also the scene at the end with kadgar effectively exorcising medivhs body to me suggested that kadgar knows more then we are shown . I could be talking completely out of my arse and looking far to deep into this but thats my thouhts any way :P
+Nobbel87 Hi Nobbel im a new fan, havent stopped watching your videos for over a week! Spam watching it like a one piece anime. Great work and nice videos. But as of the question of sargeras and all: I think its the alternate universe which they showed right now. They are making this a sort of base story and they will start the whole thing from when thrall gets older... when arthas ,kael'thas and jaina are in a academy! Also i feel they are gonna talk about this story[warcraft 1] told now as a lot of flash back scenes. Basically what i feel is this is going to be the base story for Ner'zhuls spirit being in the armour of the lich king, And that Arthas, Illidan, Malfurion , Jaina , Kael'thas and maybe even a bit of lady vash and azsharas story. And the reason for all of Medivh looking like a green monster / demon is maybe because: They might have changed the story from Kil'jaeden / sargeras looking monster because, maybe they are showing it in a way that manaroth was the person to introduce the fel to medivh, and he was turning into one of the demons, possibly a way to introduce manaroth. Because during the first invation it was kil'jaeden, manroth and a few more to come from the portal. I feel they will introduce Sargeras after they have establised what 'from light come darkness and from darkness light' means. I feel they are going to introduce the Old gods, Titans and the Naaru all together. BUT i have this strange feeling that they wont introduce the drenai... I hope they dont do that
There's a point where Garona is in the jail cell, and Medivh comes to see her. They're speaking about Gul'dan, and she mentions hearing a voice of fire and shadow (I think that's what it was). Pretty sure that would be a good reference to Sargeras.
The movie is an alternate universe. No big deal. It happens in movies all the time. Revenant is in an alternate universe from real life, because Leo's character didn't have a kid like the kid in the movie.
+Nobbel87 I didn't understood somethings in the movie and I hope you could clear them to me In the end... Medivh just ran out of powers, so the portal to stormwind closes or he died and the portal closes? (the king's reaction suggest the second, but in wc3 medivh is the one alerting about the scourge isn't him?) who is the leader of the kirin thor? Is Kael'thas already a member of the six? The elven leader that appears is Anasterian? Where does King Terenas Menethil II enters in the story? Is he one of the humans who denied the support to Llane? Where are the silver hand's? they weren't created yet or they just respond to king terenas? If gul'dan could easily leach life like from durotan the way he did, why he didn't do the same in his counterpart from iron horde storyline? or his powers were amplified in the movie? I hope you can see this thx for all the lore vids
I think they didn't ditched the Sargeras part, they just keep the Fel mystical. The movie storyline is focusing on newcomers in terms of explanation and intentionally doesn't tell too much. If I remember well the Burning Crusade expansion started to demystify the fel, shadow/void, and the light with intrducing the Bloodelves who just drained the light from a naaru and used it and also were able to distill fel energy into a form that is more "safe" to consume although still highly addicting without proper self control(blood elves were already mana addicts by their biology so nothing to lose I guess), and said naaru just turned into a voidlord after they got completely drained meaning that the two elements are just two forms of the same one.
Sargeras is really heavy on the lore side. They could have done it in an intro cinematic, but it would be SUPER dense. You could have something like this: "In the beginning, a race of godlike beings known only as the Titans created the universe. They moved from planet to planet creating life. But a coin must always have two sides. Demons that existed only to cause chaos and destruction warred against the Titans. The greatest warrior of the Titans, Sargeras, eternally battled the demons. But exposed to the corruption of the demons, he began to doubt his efforts. This doubt turned into helplessness, and helplessness into madness. Sargeras turned on his Titan brethren, releasing the demons he had defeated upon the universe, corrupting or destroying every planet they came upon with Sargeras as their leader." Simple little opening cinematic and narration. Then you transition into the War of the Ancients on Azeroth. I feel like that would have made a better Warcraft movie, but they followed the game's story so it's okay.
Is this what you were working at last night? Awesome! =) I read all the books that are out, but I think I have to re-read some and check the comics/visual novels. Alot of lore is being left out for me :O
how many films do you think they would have to do to sufficiently cover all of pre wow warcraft? they would need to do the whole of the second war, the sons of lothar story, the lords of the clans story, before they even get to warcraft 3, they would have to cut so much.
I'm a little upset ner'zhul was the only chieftain who was left out. You would think he'd at least make a cameo since he was gul'dan's right hand man until he betrayed him
What might happen in the next movie? If it continues the way we know from the game /games so far, we need Orgrim to die, so we can get Orgrimmar and Hammerfall named after him, and Lothar is still alive as well, so the battle of Blackrock should be part of the next movie, maybe.... and that will / should lead into Lordaeron lore as well, since we haven't seen much of that yet. Just my 2 cents worth . And btw, Nobbel, if i remember correctly you asked about the unnamed mage in Dalaran in one of the videos you made, i think that is is Antonidas, at least he is credited in the movie.
I don't think they cut the Sargeras/Demon influence storyline, the movie was just vague. They probably thought throwing in yet another subplot would have been too much for moviegoers, so they left the door open to go into those plots in future films. In the movie, fel magic is depicted as the corrupting force because it would be too complicated to explain the burning legion, the titans, and the void. At 2 hours long, the movie barely had enough time to explain everything we saw. Then again, I could be wrong. Maybe they really did remove all of that. I think it was just vague for practical reasons.
A couple of things: I think theres more of a story on Draenor they hope to go into in future movies. Specifically with Gul'dan and Medivh. I'm thinking that they worked together to basically destroy Draenor using the fel... Just some small speculation lol. And I personally thought that the demon Medivh morphed into at the end of the movie looked more like a satyr than Sargeras.
In any movie their are going to be parts that are left out & parts that don't exactly don't go along with the whole story. But as you stated, its lucky that Blizzard came out with Warlords of Draenor. We can look at it as a different time & its going its own way
I think that they might have thrown away that whole thing about Sargeras, but I remember someone mentioning something about a demon in the movie. It might have been in relation to who called the orcs to Azeroth, if I remember correctly.
Didn't Khadgar look like an old man when the Horde arrived at Southshore? I read that Book and i definitly remember that he looks old because he was using such powerfull spells.
8:43 Still, though, even if it was so the audience could understand, they never really say that Fel has any connection to demons, just that it's life, meaning it could just be necromancy. So taking out the whole Sargeras corruption thing would still make people ask, "Why did Medivh turn into a demon?"
I actually thought Medivh ended up looking like Archimonde. However, I would agree that for now at least, there doesn't seem to be a link to Sargeras or the Legion - however, without it they may struggle with an alternate cause of The Sundering? And additionally if they are to follow the games in broad strokes, then warcraft 3 wouldn't have any antagonist. Also noteworthy is that we saw all of the Warlords besides Ner'zhul. I wonder if the omission was with purpose, or not.
My opinion for when Medivh goes into his demonic form, he, personally, did not look like Sargeras, but he appeared more like a saytar. Ik Sargeras does look like a saytar a little bit, but this 'saytar' appearance was more darkened and black rather then Sargeras' usual firey-orange colour. Now, I do believe that they MAY explain the whole burning legion thing in a future movie, along with explaining some other things, like the brief appearance of the Draenei, and that's when we'll have the whole reveal of Sargeras and the burning legion. For right now, though, this appearance of what Medivh took might just be a small clue of bigger things to come in the movie universe.
Doesn't garona say that the figure that gave Gul'dan his visions for the portal was of a fiery demon? I took that as a subtle hint that the burning legion is still present in the movie world if not explained.
I think that the idea is still that Sargeras et al. are still responsible for/the source of the Fel, but that most of the characters, Medivh at least, are not necessarily aware that it is of demonic origin, rather only knowing that it exists and is a powerful but corrupting force. Medich transforming in to a likeness of Sargeras could be explained if Sargeras could manifest himself at/within sufficiently affected vessels of Fel magic, thus transforming Medivh in to yet another "Avatar" of Sargeras. So the legion hasn't been written out of this rendition of the story, which makes sense anyway given that the movie is in part hype for the new xpac.
Spoilers ` ` ` ` ` ` I think it's extremely hard to tell because Garona mentions how she heard Guldan's master with a voice of fire and ash which leads me to believe its Sargeras. And the transform at the end looks just like him to me, as if he was trying to take full control, just like the original story when Lothar kills Medivh. But its hard to tell because after we first see Medivh get weak and the fel start to come out the lines between whats him and whats not starts to emerge even more. Like him talking to Durotan, which he hadn't because he was in a fight to the death at the time in the movie and then convincing the king to attack without Lothar. I think Sargeras was in control at the end and was just making the last touches before he entered the world.
I think that the Sargeras thing with Medihv is possible, but not likely. Mainly due to the fact that to understand the sheer scope of Sargeras and the burning legion they would have to use a whole movie. The demonic fel creature, is simply refered to as a demon so regular people who heard the movie would be good would understand that Fel magic comes from demons. However if they do devote a movie to explaining their version of the burning legion, they may still not mention Sargeras, but instead show it as a demon horde, probably under the control of a,, or all of the Dreadlords, which is more similar (imo) to Medihv's transformation. But that is just my take on it.
There was no life draining scene with Khadgar, but could the 'from darkness, light' part with Medivh's death achieve a similar result? Khadgar threw a magical shield around Lothar which would protect him from the Fel magic, but Khadgar had no such protection. I wouldn't be surprised to see in the next movie that Khadgar will age rapidly, probably starting in an early scene with Lothar noticing that he has some grey around the edges. It, like the Sargeras plotline, was probably cut for time and stands a good chance of making an appearance in the sequal(s).
It is sad that all that didn't make it to the movie .....fantasy movies are usually long (LoTR is 4h) so cutting 40min from a 2h movie was unacceptable, and you can easily feel that after you watch the movie the 1st time.
Hi Nobbel, I have a question: How powerful have WoW characters become? if it can be somehow quantified and compared. For example: In vanilla, it took 40 people to kill C'Thun, Ragnaros and Kel'Thuzad. In Wotlk, it took 25 people to kill Yogg'Saron, Kel'Thuzad and then also Ragnaros (with a little help) in Cata. You can also compare the battle with Archimonde in WC3 and the battle with him in WoD which required 20 people (and a little help). Also with the fall of characters like Illidan, Arthas, Deathwing and stuff, can it be quantified how powerful WoW characters are? I know the raid changes weren't done for the sake of lore but I'd still like to see a lore perspective on this. Cheers!
hay Nobbel I can see why someone would think that Sargeras is not involved in the film and that fel is simply a thing that is evil and corrupting. however i do think that Sargeras was pulling the strings in the film just as he did in the game. so one can assume do to the fact that it is not explained in any part of the film that Sargeras still gave gul'dan the power of fel or rather enlightened him to it as it would seem that it is a constant like the light, usable by anyone if they know how to accesses it.so how did Sargeras come to posses Medivh? well Medivh alowed himself to be corrupted believing he could control the fel but what he unknowingly did was open himself to Sargears, who has ultimate control over the demons and by proxy the fel. now my next two main points on this are that in the story the last guardian when Medivh is confronted and killed in Karazhan it says that when they look at Medivh they no longer see his face but instead see he has transformed to look more like Sargeras. a processes which seems to also happen in the film. also when Garona is in her cell she is asked by Medivh if she has seen Gul'dans master to which she tells him that she has only heard him. this would make a lot of sense for a titanic demon who wants to remain a puppet master and not just show up in orbit around Dranor. also Garonas description of his presence and voice are quite similar to the descriptions we have received in the past. finally with the idea of making another film Sargeras pulled the strings in all the major conflict during the Warcraft games he brought orcs to Azeroth, he made the Lich King, and i think it only makes sense that he would do all the same things in the film. so to sum up Sargeras gave the orcs fel magic so they could do his biding. Medivh was possessed by Sargeras after having allowed himself to be corrupted by the fel thinking he could control it. this led to Sargeras using a possessed Medivh and an obedient Gul'dan to bring the orcs to Azeroth.
I feel like Medivh was corrupted by some being other than just the "fel." I believe this because he says that he doesn't remember everything that he had done when he was "destroying everything I loved," (he said something similar to this). So I feel like that was the other being taking control of Medivh to where his memory of what had happened was very blurred.
He seemed to be serving Guldan in the few shots that had what looked like him in the background. For example, it looked like Guldan gave what appeared to be Ner zul his staff during the birth of Thrall in the film. Many of the main orcs don't have any speaking lines. like Grom can be seen in a few short scenes either fighting or cheering, but he wasnt ever focused on for understandable reasons.
Personally, I'd love for Sargeras to be the demon. Just because they don't explain it now doesn't mean in a sequel they won't. Adding Sargeras to this movie would have added even MORE knowledge that first time WoW folks wouldn't get. Better to put the demon in there, and then reveal who he was later in the movies. The way this movie ended looks like they'll tell a long beginning story. Either the next movie picks up not too long in the future, or it might start on the story of Thrall and Varian. The ending certain focuses on baby Go'el, so possible they will just skip to him as a slave.
I still think that is Sargeras, but including him in the movie would be too much a risk. People that never heard about warcraft was kinda lost, imagine telling about a Demon/Tiran Sargeras that was inside Medivh and why. That would be asking too much I believe he is there but that was just not mention
Necroing here because im slowly working through your chronological Warcraft playlists. The abolition of the entire Legion history was one of my biggest disappointments aboit the movie. Looking at the time toward a possible series of movies, it just seemed they'd have to veer further and further from the lore to make up for that omission, having to invent a whole new origin for Arthas, Nerzhul etc... Said at the time, and I still believe, the Warcraft lore deserves a series. It could be done like the Netflix marvel series where there are overlaps but each origin is handled separately, with the characters crossing over and eventually featuring all at once in the main series.
I think Sargeras will be used as a "source" for fel magic,rather it being a type of magic on its own.I also spotted Callen Lothar trying to 1vs1 grommash.Pity grommash has no lines,
You talked about a troll warlord controlling the fel before medivh. Was there no name given or any explanation as to how this certain troll warlord came into obtaining the fel magic?
Fun fact: In the german version of the movie they kept the word fel for this dark magic but translated everything else. So a friend of mine was in the german translation ( which i refused to go in because i knew it would end that way) and told me that they kept fel as fel and well in german is a word that sounds exactly the same ( " Fell") and actually mean fur so..... for many germans this was the reason to frown a bit since they were talking all the movie about fur xD
SPOILER So that was Alodi inside the black cube!? I thought it was Aegwynn, huh. This makes me think you're right and they left Sargeras out. I hope the film does well and they make more of them. I'm interested to see where they plan on going with this.
Ok, I don't really care much for spoilers, I just care more for what I expect to see and what I hope is in the movie. Does Grommash have a cameo appearance in the movie? Does Varian have a cameo appearance in the movie? Does Garona kill Llane Wrynn? Does Stormwind burn? Is Blackhand the Warchief or is Gul'dan?
Spoilers Grom was there-yes, not a big part though. Garona kills him and I think Gul'dan is chief but Blackhand is like a side chief or somethin'. Sorry, don't really play WoW, but I did watch the movie.
If what you say is true with mediev then the massacre of the draenei's only meaning was for sport and to fuel the dark portal,not for killjadens revenge
As long as it isn't stated , or contraticted by things in the movie, i say the movie lore is exact the same as the "real" one. And I don't think they will change too much from the "real" story to the movies. (Spoiler warning. Shouldn't be big, but still...) Little changes, like to Ocrim (And who will be warchief), are inveitable in any adaption of any kind. But on a broader scope, it's not that different. And Sargeras is still the "main bad". [Ref, first line]
I didn't know there was a brotherhood book :( I brought the other two after I watched the film damn I'll have to buy the other what order should I read them in ? brother hood durotan then the movie novel??
Odd.. I've listened to the novelization audiobook, and that scene at the end with Garona is different than what you read. "This was all bone, and iron. Steel and ugly angles that served a purpose and reflected those that built it. This was an orc fortress. The one known as Gul'dan oversaw everything. Monstrous, green, he leaned on his staff. Below him was a sea of brown and green skins. Of weapons. Of simmering anger and bloodlust. Their warchief stepped forward, ready to lead Gul'dan's army. Green skin gleamed with sweat in the sun where it was not covered by armor. Strong, determined, hardened, Garona Halforcen lifted her spear."
![The Story of Blackrock Mountain [Warcraft Lore]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/_TploBAj5XQ/mqdefault.jpg)
![The Story of Blackrock Mountain [Warcraft Lore]](/img/tr.png)
There is only one thing I felt dissapointed with when leaving that theatre.
THERE ISN'T A SECOND MOVIE ALREADY.
Agreed.
Ikr! I felt really upset and depressed, I got really into the movie!
SPOILER (from movie)
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Maybe they did not changed Medivh's possesion by Sargeras, since Garona mentioned that she heard a voice resembling "ash and flame" (or something like that) speaking to guldan ... so hopefully Sargeras will be there, since we want Arthas story ! and Illidan story too in movie :D
You are not prepared! But, I agree, we NEED Illidan
maybe that was mannoroth
when medivh went full on evil mode in the film he had a sargeras kinda look to him
There is a big chance we will se arthas in the future movies but he can only be a minor part of the movie since the triology will end on where warcraft 3: reign of chaos scenarios ends. and he can be really easy to replace with a random death knight since he is only serving kel'thuzad while he is summoning archimonde into azeroth.
the fire and ash voice was Mannoroth.
in guldan tent is a picture of him and Mannoroth.
I loved this movie,can't wait for the next one
I agree with you.
Did anyone notice The Lich King in the Blizzard logo at the start of the film?
Diablo, Kerrigan and Tracer where also in there.
and diablo
It's one of many easter eggs
Did anyone notice tracer at the last sequence in the right after arthas, Sylvanas in the ice?
holyshit, i didn't know !
I think they haven't decided how to tell the story about Medivh's corruption yet. One thing was clear to them, if they were to mention Sargeras, it would be pointless without explaining what Sargeras is, what his intentions are, what he is, etc. So for now they went with a simple Fel Magic corruption plot, and they can easily expand on that in a sequel, revealing that Medivh was controlled by Sargeras through Fel magic. It's the same thing as being possessed, it has the same flavor to it. This goes for other parts of the movie as well. They made the movie already very complicated so some parts are left vague, to be expanded in a future movie.
I do believe Sargeras is still being used for one very reason - The fact that Medivh had moments where he did not remember what he'd done. That, to me, means Sargeras took over, as he did in The Last Guardian. Fel magic is corrupting, true, but it doesn't give you split personality disorder. So the only explanation for that I can see is Sargeras's influence.
Yes and we saw the demon he turned into and Khadar (spelling?) had to be going "what the hell?" when he saw it. I think it will come out in a future movie maybe.
I think Sargeras is still being used. They just are keeping him a sort of major plot point for possible future movies. If they where to mention Sargeras in the film it would have crammed to much in. They did not mention demons (by name) at all, which I suspect again they are saving that.
They did not even use Ner'zhul. I think Ner'zhul, Sargeras, things like that are being saved for a possible sequel because if there is ever a time to dive into them it is not the 1st war, but hopefully the second.
I would say Kadgar saying to Lothar that they had to kill a demon would technically be "mentioning demons."
This is true. I was thinking more along the lines of major demons. Like Archimode, Kil'jaden and Sargeras, or at least mentioning them by name. Though we my have to wait till the 3rd war movie if their will be one, to see Archimode and Kil'jaden. The 3rd war is such a big event compared to the first two I don't even know how they would fit everything that happens into one movie.
I also remember the "voice like ash" line from Garona that is another thing that hints to Sargeras still being a thing.
they didn't use demons but they did mention them. Garona "I didn't see the demon but I heard it. It sounded like fire and ashes."
Exactly, so I think it is safe to say Sargeras is definitely still a thing in this movie universe. I made a rely earlier that said when I say "mentioned" them I was really referring to mentioning them by name. That is a mistake on my part I could have been clearer
Just got back from seeing it. I'm always: "For the Alliance!" But Durotan was easily my favorite character.
In one of the "Leaked" Videos of the warcraft movie there was a scene where Grommash was in a circle of orcs, telling them of "Gul'dan's gift" It was cut from the movie since I didnt see it. But im sure it will be in directors cut.
Glad someone big pointed the people in the direction of the novelization, it is an overlooked gem!
Im surprised as how many people did not see Grommash Hellscream in the background he was there the whole movie its mind blowing :D
Most people clearly didn't noticed that in guldans tent is picture of him and mannoroth. The voice of fire and ash garona was hearing was mannoroth. There is a behind the scenes book of Warcraft called "Warcraft: Behind the Dark Portal" it explains a lot and shows pictures of deleted scenes.
Now I'm imagining a picture of Mannoroth and Gul'dan shaking hands and smiling at the camera.
Lol I think he means drawing or glyph
I much prefer having Demonic energy and a Lord of Demons, aka Sargeras being the thing that is corrupting planets. Without it, a lot of the Warcraft lore falls apart and is cheapened, I feel.
However, them removing it explains why Dalaran is already floating, since they can't have Archimonde destroy the city, because demons don't exist. I feel it also doesn't bode well for the story of Arthas and his corruption, since they would have a hard time explaining away the Lich King and the undead as just being a "different form" of the Fel. The Scourge would have to be yet another made up thing affecting the world for some unexplained reason.
That's the nice thing about the Demon Lord Sargeras and the Eredar Lords Kil'jaeden and Archimonde. They tie everything together so nicely. Gul'dan's death looking for the Eye of Sargeras, Ner'zhul and the Scourge meant to take Azeroth for the demons, Arthas's corruption, the War of the Ancients with the Night Elves and the Dragonflights, the Titans, aka the Makers and the Old Gods of Azeroth. They are all connected and spawn from the origin of the Universe, as opposed to being this unknown force that corrupts and kills.
I was annoyed that they made Med'ivh Garona's father. I do think that it was still the Avatar of Sargeras at the end though. The movie followed the lore as it was in the original RTS. There was a demon there, but it wasn't given explanation until later games. It's easy enough for them to learn about the war of the ancients in later films.
Nobbel87, I just realized, Blizzard really should Hire you to be apart of the Warcraft story writing team! The theory's you have and the way you make everything connect is like you already are working for Blizzard :D Thanks a lot for your Videos, you always help when I have answers on Lore :D
>Movie released world wide
Sitting here in Australia waiting another 5 days.. 5 DAYS!! But my golly gosh - Christie Golden is a goddess in my eyes and I want everything Warcraft she has ever done.
I thought it was interesting the Medivh kept telling Khadgar thats he wasnt the guardian...YET. Very curious to me.
he knew he was gonna take his place it felt like funny af how khadgar is actually a drop out lol
+tworains2 right? Khadgar the drop out 😂😂
I really hope we get a sequel. Again with two stories, one of Ner'Zhul on Drenor and the other on Azeroth of the Silver Hand. Thet would flow nicely into the third movie about Arthas and Thrall.
I think i could like the movie if i hadn't read any of the novels or paid much attention to lore but it's what really got me into warcraft in the first place :\ overall i don't dislike the movie but i can't like it.
This is definitely a nitpick but why have the vision Khadgar interacts with be Alodi and not the way more obvious Aegwynn?
I think that they might expand to the titan/demon/whatever with guardian in the future because even in it's current stat it is a massive info dump for someone unfamiliar with the universe.
I think the whole Medihv story in the movie is still ultimately like his story in the lore (mom, dad, Sargerous, etc) same with Khadgar and a few others and in the end their big lore moments we will see but the studio wants to wait to go through all those stories until we have a more established movie universe kind of like marvel has done. Once we do the basic stories we can do crazy thinks like the legion. I really enjoy your videos and am a fellow lore buff with dreams of starting my own channel. Keep up the good work man
Removing Sargeras entirely cuts out so much of the backstory of Warcraft. The Draenei also become pointless since, if Medivh was the one that taught Gul'dan alone, there is no connection to the Burning Legion. I still hold on to hope that Sargeras was left out of the first movie to simplify the plot, and that the driving forces behind the scenes are still Sargeras/Kil'Jaeden. We just didn't learn of them yet. The form Medivh took in the tower scene was quite specific and there wasn't a viewpoint character with knowledge of Sargeras to identify him. Lothar would not know him and Khadgar is quite a shitty wizard.
Spoiler Question:
Who was the strange shadow figure that helped khadgar? Was it really Alodi/the first guardian? If yes, why did they change him into an old woman and why is she imprisont in this cube/shadow realm? That character really confused me and it was so fast introduced and gone in like 2 minutes...
She is named Alodi in the movie. They changed many things, such as instead of the first guardian, she exists long before the Kirin Tor and serves similar to "the Guardian" (Khadgar instead calls her "the Protector"). As for the cube, I think it is used to sustain her beyond her age. As for why female, maybe to give impression of Aegwyn? In her last sentence the voice turns to male at the end and even Antonidas refers to Alodi as a he.
***** Alodi is looooong dead in the game even during the first war. Changes in the movie like that really bothered me, it doesnt even really serve the movie while making its own thing since it just confuses people all the same if you throw something like that in the movie for like 5 minutes without explanation....
I love the story of the game but i thought the storytelling of the movie, espacially the pacing was one of the lowest of the low this year....
I suspect that Alodi is the movieverse version of Aegwynn with a different name that is still taken from Warcraft lore but possibly less well known?
The sequels might even reveal that Medivh was Alodi's Son all along conceived for similar reasons (movie lore can still end up being expanded on or retconned).
Because, not only was she female, but she also mentions using "the last of her powers" to help Khadgar (sounds a lot like Aegwynn using "the last of her powers" to resurrect Medivh in the game lore).
Typanoid i dont know they could have scrapped that from the movie completly in my opinion and if they had to put her in the sequel. I mean what was her/his (what ever) actuall porpose being in this movie? So that khadgar could (*SPOILER*) redirect the Fel Magic from Mediv somewhere else because he remembered 1 sentence she/he said? Same could have been adchieved with almost every other already known character/some exposition.
You're completely right of course, I only mentioned it because I got heavy Aegwynn vibes from movie Alodi, and with the film being so full of easter-eggs and references, I kinda speculated a bit rampantly, because anything could happen in a movie universe.
The more likely outcome, though, is probably that she has been dropped entirely as you say.
I liked the movie for sure but the story changes are kind of meh.
What I think they could do for Medivh is show that during his travels through the various worlds (before he finds Draenor) comes across some strange alien creature that appears benevolent. Offering him power and knowledge the creature offers him a pact. That pact allows a piece of Sargeras to inhabit his body in exchange for power. After this the benefactor pushes Medivh towards Draenor and Gul'Dan. After this they reveal that the benevolent creature is Kil'Jaeden in disguise and thus ties the Burning Legion back into both the Azeroth and Orc (revenge against the Draenei) stories while playing up the demon trope and Kil'Jaeden as the Deceiver.
you can say that it's not for the main canon, but some stuff does fill in a ton of holes.
I spotted not only Grommash Hellscream, but Kargath Bladefist and Kilrogg Deadeye for a couple of frames.
I think and hope that they will acknowledge Sargeras as being the one who corrupted Medivh and the orcs but, that they'll wait until the 2nd sequel to this movie
Maybe Sargeras is Fel. The Fel would work like a parasite with the difference of having that parasite all be apart of the same being. In other words, those contaminated by it and using it en masse could be subject to Sargeras influence. The more they use, the more he can reach in. The mana pool at the top of Karazhan I believe was the manifestation of the lay-line below (Isn't Karazhan on one of those, like the Occulus and others?) and it empowered the Fel to summon Sargeras in the same way Kil'Jaeden was summoned by the Sun-Well but on a lesser scale because the pool was weaker and it only worked because he was partially present on the other side through the Fel within Medivh. If we follow that logic, Gul'Dan might end up being used to summon him as well.
My biggest issue with the movie is that with Gul'Dan being teinted and not Ner'Zhul being tricked, Ner'Zhul has no real reason to become the lich king, there will be no race to the Frozen Throne between Arthas and Illidan, there will be no plague, there will be no Sylvanas Banshee Queen, There will be no Illidan retreating to Outland after his failure, We might never get to see Anub'Arak, or even Northrend for that matter. If they don't go to Northrend, there is no ascenssion of Garrosh. With no ascenssion of Garrosh there is no need to stop him after he collects powerful artifacts across Pandaria, we might see Pandaria because it was found randomly, but I doubt we'll have the same kind of war there. Also this means no time travel (that might be a good thing :p) so there is no changing history. Actually, I wonder if Thrall would give the lead of the Horde to Garrosh despite him not earning it through his deeds in Northrend when the Earthen Ring calls upon Thrall. He might, or he might directly give it to Cairne or Vol'Jin. Either could be quite interesting.
I don't know whether I like the movies detaching so much from the game lore because on one hand every little change can have massive rippling effects, or if it might be more interesting to see it all go in a whole different way to have surprising and interesting stories.
I really hope that there's going to be a sequel. Despite the movie's 'flaws', I enjoyed it! Who knows? Maybe one day we'll see Arthas on the big screen too! >:D
+projecta3halkida Yes please, I would love to see arthas!
god no, who knows how they're gonna butcher him too.
The way that Medivh looks when he turns into that Sargeras-like demon was only one of two hints at Sargeras being behind it all. The other is in the scene where Garona is in a cage in Stormwind and Medivh is talking with her, she tells him that the voice who urged Gul'dan to come to Azeroth sounded "like burning fire" or something along those lines... If that doesn't sound like the Big S Man then I don't know what does
I think it was "Sargeras" mostly because Mediev was corrupted by a part of the avatar of Sargeras (if I remember right), so that corruption would be why he takes a Sargarian form. Now, I don't think they mentioned it because, holy crap explaining the Legion, Sargeras, and Med's history would have taken an hour and derailed the whole movie.
But as far as it goes, if we have a sequal, part of what could happen is Kadgar, attempting to figure out how to understand and fight the Fel, dives into research. He finds out the history of Mediev, finds out about his mother, the fight with Sargeras's avatar, and learns about the burning legion. Not as anything more than research, but setting up for another sequal and giving answers as to how to defeat gul'dan. Movie two ends with Gul'dan dead, and Khadgar taking the skull of Gul'Dan to the Tomb of Sargeras and the first horde defeated.
And then, years later with the horde subdued, the legion introduced, the Third movie drops us with the events of Warcraft 3, with the formation of the modern Horde, the destruction of Lorderon, and the Rise of Arthas. At least, that's how I'd play it.
To add to the conversation of the corruption of Medivh, if they want to make more Warcraft movies, and if the movies eventually reach Lordaeron and the Arthas storyline, it may be possible to change it to avoid explaining Sargeras and the Burning Legion but, given the difficulties of taking the source material so loosely, I think they will explain Sargeras as the origin of the fel in future movies and proceed telling the story of the creation of the Lich King, to establish him as an entity.
Nobbel, will you make a movie with differences between movie universe and the real game lore?
I don't think kil jaeden/sargeras is out of the picture just yet as garona makes mention of gul dan talking to a demonic voice in the film.
I believe Medivh's demon form was actually a cameo of the Vengeance Demon Hunter's Metamorphosis that is coming up in Legion
Nobbel, I have been a fan for your videos for years. I love Lore and the stories, and you are the king of such~ In the circles I run, everyone bows to your knowledge as being 2nd to blizzard official posts. I hope to meet you one day~ I would be so honored, and to converse with you about the game I love so much. I am an Rper, who plays as a mage on the Server Wyrmrest Accord, ogrinally from MG, and I have been playing since Beta with nearly all of my career being that of mage with over 500 days in /played completed. Anyways, I tip my hat to the master and confess my dream to fanboy meet you one day. Even in game if given the chance~ TY TY for all your work and everything you have done over the years. Tanirus.
wait what! how was Garona Medivh's daughter in the movie? I thought it was implied she was half orc, half draenei?
there is one more theory though ;) check out Nobble's videos
we'll probably find out in the next movie that medivh is actually a draenei or something. i gave up
As for Medivhs corruption there is actually a very subtle reference to the source material of Medivh's corruption by Sargeras and a suggestion that they will be following that lore far closer then it first appears . And it comes down to Kadgars meeting with "Alodi" .
While I understand that the film(s) are doing their own interpretation , did none think it was rather odd that Alodi is represented as female ? I find it odd that if they are looking to ret-con things to bring everything in line and remove hypocrisies that they would have Alodi female in the film but then remain male in the legion expansion. We know that the female before us in the film is a guardian, to me her tone suggested more than simple instruction to kadgar, and certainly from the short passage of text you read from the novelisation for this encounter she sounds some what regretful maybe ? Did anyone else notice that her eyes were also glowing green ? And how many female guardians were there? if my memory serves correct would I be right in saying there was only one ?
Are we maybe not getting Aegwynn being introduced but as a reveal for another film? (after all throwing medivhs mother in at that later stage in the film would open one hell of a can of worms ) After all from her point of view the text could still read true , medivh could have been set true to his path of mastery of the magics only to be slowly swayed by the promises of greater understanding by the voices in his head . slowly giving more and more control to sargeras until he had unwittingly given him his free will ? plus I do also find it interesting that it is only after the meeting with alodi that kadgar refers to medivh as a demon. " We have a demon to kill " . also the scene at the end with kadgar effectively exorcising medivhs body to me suggested that kadgar knows more then we are shown .
I could be talking completely out of my arse and looking far to deep into this but thats my thouhts any way :P
I definitely want to see an extended cut of Warcraft.
You mention the pronunciation of 'Alodi' - just so you know, the Amazon Audible version of the novelization pronounces it the way you do, Nobbel!
Jeej!
+Nobbel87 Hi Nobbel im a new fan, havent stopped watching your videos for over a week! Spam watching it like a one piece anime.
Great work and nice videos.
But as of the question of sargeras and all:
I think its the alternate universe which they showed right now. They are making this a sort of base story and they will start the whole thing from when thrall gets older... when arthas ,kael'thas and jaina are in a academy! Also i feel they are gonna talk about this story[warcraft 1] told now as a lot of flash back scenes. Basically what i feel is this is going to be the base story for Ner'zhuls spirit being in the armour of the lich king, And that Arthas, Illidan, Malfurion , Jaina , Kael'thas and maybe even a bit of lady vash and azsharas story.
And the reason for all of Medivh looking like a green monster / demon is maybe because: They might have changed the story from Kil'jaeden / sargeras looking monster because, maybe they are showing it in a way that manaroth was the person to introduce the fel to medivh, and he was turning into one of the demons, possibly a way to introduce manaroth. Because during the first invation it was kil'jaeden, manroth and a few more to come from the portal.
I feel they will introduce Sargeras after they have establised what 'from light come darkness and from darkness light' means. I feel they are going to introduce the Old gods, Titans and the Naaru all together.
BUT i have this strange feeling that they wont introduce the drenai... I hope they dont do that
There's a point where Garona is in the jail cell, and Medivh comes to see her. They're speaking about Gul'dan, and she mentions hearing a voice of fire and shadow (I think that's what it was). Pretty sure that would be a good reference to Sargeras.
The movie is an alternate universe. No big deal. It happens in movies all the time. Revenant is in an alternate universe from real life, because Leo's character didn't have a kid like the kid in the movie.
+Nobbel87
I didn't understood somethings in the movie and I hope you could clear them to me
In the end... Medivh just ran out of powers, so the portal to stormwind closes or he died and the portal closes? (the king's reaction suggest the second, but in wc3 medivh is the one alerting about the scourge isn't him?)
who is the leader of the kirin thor? Is Kael'thas already a member of the six?
The elven leader that appears is Anasterian?
Where does King Terenas Menethil II enters in the story? Is he one of the humans who denied the support to Llane?
Where are the silver hand's? they weren't created yet or they just respond to king terenas?
If gul'dan could easily leach life like from durotan the way he did, why he didn't do the same in his counterpart from iron horde storyline? or his powers were amplified in the movie?
I hope you can see this thx for all the lore vids
I think they didn't ditched the Sargeras part, they just keep the Fel mystical.
The movie storyline is focusing on newcomers in terms of explanation and intentionally doesn't tell too much.
If I remember well the Burning Crusade expansion started to demystify the fel, shadow/void, and the light with intrducing the Bloodelves who just drained the light from a naaru and used it and also were able to distill fel energy into a form that is more "safe" to consume although still highly addicting without proper self control(blood elves were already mana addicts by their biology so nothing to lose I guess), and said naaru just turned into a voidlord after they got completely drained meaning that the two elements are just two forms of the same one.
I could listen to your voice for hours. Wait, I already do. Love your videos!!!!!
You could also spot Kargath in 2 or 3 scenes
Nobbel you should make audiobook for the Warcraft books =) i wood get them dirr :;D cheers and keep up the great work !
Thanks for the recommendation for the movie novelization!
Sargeras is really heavy on the lore side. They could have done it in an intro cinematic, but it would be SUPER dense. You could have something like this:
"In the beginning, a race of godlike beings known only as the Titans created the universe. They moved from planet to planet creating life.
But a coin must always have two sides. Demons that existed only to cause chaos and destruction warred against the Titans.
The greatest warrior of the Titans, Sargeras, eternally battled the demons. But exposed to the corruption of the demons, he began to doubt his efforts. This doubt turned into helplessness, and helplessness into madness.
Sargeras turned on his Titan brethren, releasing the demons he had defeated upon the universe, corrupting or destroying every planet they came upon with Sargeras as their leader."
Simple little opening cinematic and narration. Then you transition into the War of the Ancients on Azeroth. I feel like that would have made a better Warcraft movie, but they followed the game's story so it's okay.
Is this what you were working at last night? Awesome! =) I read all the books that are out, but I think I have to re-read some and check the comics/visual novels. Alot of lore is being left out for me :O
how many films do you think they would have to do to sufficiently cover all of pre wow warcraft? they would need to do the whole of the second war, the sons of lothar story, the lords of the clans story, before they even get to warcraft 3, they would have to cut so much.
Lothar: "Send him (Khadgar) to Goldshire"
Me: "Nooooo Khadgar!!!"
Grom and Kargath in the movie
I'm a little upset ner'zhul was the only chieftain who was left out. You would think he'd at least make a cameo since he was gul'dan's right hand man until he betrayed him
He was left in Draenor, I believe. They had so much to squish into a two hour movie. I'm hoping director's cut will have more lore scenes.
Gul'dan was HIS right hand man until he betrayed nerzhul. Since we see Gul'dan as the leader of the horde, we know that this is after nerzhul.
Kilrogg to! He snapped one of the human LT's necks! LIKE A BOSS!
Kargath? Where , which scene? I want to see him.
It might have been said before, but imo the deamon that Medivh was turning into looked more like the Xavius character model from the Legion alpha.
What might happen in the next movie? If it continues the way we know from the game /games so far, we need Orgrim to die, so we can get Orgrimmar and Hammerfall named after him, and Lothar is still alive as well, so the battle of Blackrock should be part of the next movie, maybe.... and that will / should lead into Lordaeron lore as well, since we haven't seen much of that yet. Just my 2 cents worth .
And btw, Nobbel, if i remember correctly you asked about the unnamed mage in Dalaran in one of the videos you made, i think that is is Antonidas, at least he is credited in the movie.
I don't think they cut the Sargeras/Demon influence storyline, the movie was just vague. They probably thought throwing in yet another subplot would have been too much for moviegoers, so they left the door open to go into those plots in future films.
In the movie, fel magic is depicted as the corrupting force because it would be too complicated to explain the burning legion, the titans, and the void. At 2 hours long, the movie barely had enough time to explain everything we saw.
Then again, I could be wrong. Maybe they really did remove all of that. I think it was just vague for practical reasons.
Duncan Jones said that he is planning to make a next Warcraft movie sequel, but its gonna be about lich king and not illidan or anything like that.
A couple of things: I think theres more of a story on Draenor they hope to go into in future movies. Specifically with Gul'dan and Medivh. I'm thinking that they worked together to basically destroy Draenor using the fel... Just some small speculation lol. And I personally thought that the demon Medivh morphed into at the end of the movie looked more like a satyr than Sargeras.
In any movie their are going to be parts that are left out & parts that don't exactly don't go along with the whole story. But as you stated, its lucky that Blizzard came out with Warlords of Draenor. We can look at it as a different time & its going its own way
I think that they might have thrown away that whole thing about Sargeras, but I remember someone mentioning something about a demon in the movie. It might have been in relation to who called the orcs to Azeroth, if I remember correctly.
Didn't Khadgar look like an old man when the Horde arrived at Southshore? I read that Book and i definitly remember that he looks old because he was using such powerfull spells.
8:43 Still, though, even if it was so the audience could understand, they never really say that Fel has any connection to demons, just that it's life, meaning it could just be necromancy. So taking out the whole Sargeras corruption thing would still make people ask, "Why did Medivh turn into a demon?"
I actually thought Medivh ended up looking like Archimonde.
However, I would agree that for now at least, there doesn't seem to be a link to Sargeras or the Legion - however, without it they may struggle with an alternate cause of The Sundering? And additionally if they are to follow the games in broad strokes, then warcraft 3 wouldn't have any antagonist.
Also noteworthy is that we saw all of the Warlords besides Ner'zhul. I wonder if the omission was with purpose, or not.
My opinion for when Medivh goes into his demonic form, he, personally, did not look like Sargeras, but he appeared more like a saytar. Ik Sargeras does look like a saytar a little bit, but this 'saytar' appearance was more darkened and black rather then Sargeras' usual firey-orange colour. Now, I do believe that they MAY explain the whole burning legion thing in a future movie, along with explaining some other things, like the brief appearance of the Draenei, and that's when we'll have the whole reveal of Sargeras and the burning legion. For right now, though, this appearance of what Medivh took might just be a small clue of bigger things to come in the movie universe.
Doesn't garona say that the figure that gave Gul'dan his visions for the portal was of a fiery demon? I took that as a subtle hint that the burning legion is still present in the movie world if not explained.
I think that the idea is still that Sargeras et al. are still responsible for/the source of the Fel, but that most of the characters, Medivh at least, are not necessarily aware that it is of demonic origin, rather only knowing that it exists and is a powerful but corrupting force. Medich transforming in to a likeness of Sargeras could be explained if Sargeras could manifest himself at/within sufficiently affected vessels of Fel magic, thus transforming Medivh in to yet another "Avatar" of Sargeras. So the legion hasn't been written out of this rendition of the story, which makes sense anyway given that the movie is in part hype for the new xpac.
No one else realized that Medivh used blue/arcane magic all movie but when he was being "Possessed" his magic suddenly became fire/sargerasish?
Spoilers
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I think it's extremely hard to tell because Garona mentions how she heard Guldan's master with a voice of fire and ash which leads me to believe its Sargeras. And the transform at the end looks just like him to me, as if he was trying to take full control, just like the original story when Lothar kills Medivh. But its hard to tell because after we first see Medivh get weak and the fel start to come out the lines between whats him and whats not starts to emerge even more. Like him talking to Durotan, which he hadn't because he was in a fight to the death at the time in the movie and then convincing the king to attack without Lothar. I think Sargeras was in control at the end and was just making the last touches before he entered the world.
I agree!
If i remember correctly, in the books "the voice of fire and ash" description was given to Mannoroth.
For one scene even Kargath Bladefist appears. Just after the portal closes
I think that the Sargeras thing with Medihv is possible, but not likely. Mainly due to the fact that to understand the sheer scope of Sargeras and the burning legion they would have to use a whole movie. The demonic fel creature, is simply refered to as a demon so regular people who heard the movie would be good would understand that Fel magic comes from demons. However if they do devote a movie to explaining their version of the burning legion, they may still not mention Sargeras, but instead show it as a demon horde, probably under the control of a,, or all of the Dreadlords, which is more similar (imo) to Medihv's transformation. But that is just my take on it.
In the start of the movie the frostmourne can be seen frozen inside the blizzard title.
There was no life draining scene with Khadgar, but could the 'from darkness, light' part with Medivh's death achieve a similar result? Khadgar threw a magical shield around Lothar which would protect him from the Fel magic, but Khadgar had no such protection. I wouldn't be surprised to see in the next movie that Khadgar will age rapidly, probably starting in an early scene with Lothar noticing that he has some grey around the edges. It, like the Sargeras plotline, was probably cut for time and stands a good chance of making an appearance in the sequal(s).
It is sad that all that didn't make it to the movie .....fantasy movies are usually long (LoTR is 4h) so cutting 40min from a 2h movie was unacceptable, and you can easily feel that after you watch the movie the 1st time.
Hi Nobbel, I have a question: How powerful have WoW characters become? if it can be somehow quantified and compared. For example: In vanilla, it took 40 people to kill C'Thun, Ragnaros and Kel'Thuzad. In Wotlk, it took 25 people to kill Yogg'Saron, Kel'Thuzad and then also Ragnaros (with a little help) in Cata. You can also compare the battle with Archimonde in WC3 and the battle with him in WoD which required 20 people (and a little help). Also with the fall of characters like Illidan, Arthas, Deathwing and stuff, can it be quantified how powerful WoW characters are? I know the raid changes weren't done for the sake of lore but I'd still like to see a lore perspective on this. Cheers!
did you say in the movie Garona is daughter of Medivh?
hay Nobbel I can see why someone would think that Sargeras is not involved in the film and that fel is simply a thing that is evil and corrupting. however i do think that Sargeras was pulling the strings in the film just as he did in the game.
so one can assume do to the fact that it is not explained in any part of the film that Sargeras still gave gul'dan the power of fel or rather enlightened him to it as it would seem that it is a constant like the light, usable by anyone if they know how to accesses it.so how did Sargeras come to posses Medivh? well Medivh alowed himself to be corrupted believing he could control the fel but what he unknowingly did was open himself to Sargears, who has ultimate control over the demons and by proxy the fel. now my next two main points on this are that in the story the last guardian when Medivh is confronted and killed in Karazhan it says that when they look at Medivh they no longer see his face but instead see he has transformed to look more like Sargeras. a processes which seems to also happen in the film. also when Garona is in her cell she is asked by Medivh if she has seen Gul'dans master to which she tells him that she has only heard him. this would make a lot of sense for a titanic demon who wants to remain a puppet master and not just show up in orbit around Dranor. also Garonas description of his presence and voice are quite similar to the descriptions we have received in the past.
finally with the idea of making another film Sargeras pulled the strings in all the major conflict during the Warcraft games he brought orcs to Azeroth, he made the Lich King, and i think it only makes sense that he would do all the same things in the film.
so to sum up Sargeras gave the orcs fel magic so they could do his biding. Medivh was possessed by Sargeras after having allowed himself to be corrupted by the fel thinking he could control it. this led to Sargeras using a possessed Medivh and an obedient Gul'dan to bring the orcs to Azeroth.
It feels to me like they have decided to somewhat blend the lines with Lothar and not do the Turalyon character in the movies.
any thoughts?
I feel like Medivh was corrupted by some being other than just the "fel." I believe this because he says that he doesn't remember everything that he had done when he was "destroying everything I loved," (he said something similar to this). So I feel like that was the other being taking control of Medivh to where his memory of what had happened was very blurred.
Nobbel where was ner zul in the movie?
He seemed to be serving Guldan in the few shots that had what looked like him in the background.
For example, it looked like Guldan gave what appeared to be Ner zul his staff during the birth of Thrall in the film.
Many of the main orcs don't have any speaking lines. like Grom can be seen in a few short scenes either fighting or cheering, but he wasnt ever focused on for understandable reasons.
Personally, I'd love for Sargeras to be the demon. Just because they don't explain it now doesn't mean in a sequel they won't. Adding Sargeras to this movie would have added even MORE knowledge that first time WoW folks wouldn't get. Better to put the demon in there, and then reveal who he was later in the movies. The way this movie ended looks like they'll tell a long beginning story. Either the next movie picks up not too long in the future, or it might start on the story of Thrall and Varian. The ending certain focuses on baby Go'el, so possible they will just skip to him as a slave.
I still think that is Sargeras, but including him in the movie would be too much a risk.
People that never heard about warcraft was kinda lost, imagine telling about a Demon/Tiran Sargeras that was inside Medivh and why. That would be asking too much
I believe he is there but that was just not mention
Necroing here because im slowly working through your chronological Warcraft playlists. The abolition of the entire Legion history was one of my biggest disappointments aboit the movie. Looking at the time toward a possible series of movies, it just seemed they'd have to veer further and further from the lore to make up for that omission, having to invent a whole new origin for Arthas, Nerzhul etc... Said at the time, and I still believe, the Warcraft lore deserves a series. It could be done like the Netflix marvel series where there are overlaps but each origin is handled separately, with the characters crossing over and eventually featuring all at once in the main series.
best movie I've seen all year, can't wait till the next one!
Same here. I'm looking forward to it.
I have not yet figured out who is the old wizard in Dalaran. Is he a random dude or is he supposed to be Antonidas?
I guess it is Antonidas. Or Kelthuzad, if they wanna turn this guy into a villain.
ALSO elves were tiny and i guess the absence of druids makes sense since there were no night elves
I think Sargeras will be used as a "source" for fel magic,rather it being a type of magic on its own.I also spotted Callen Lothar trying to 1vs1 grommash.Pity grommash has no lines,
the burning legion or KJ was mentioned or hinted at in the movie by gorona
Thanks for the overview, very well done.
You talked about a troll warlord controlling the fel before medivh. Was there no name given or any explanation as to how this certain troll warlord came into obtaining the fel magic?
Fun fact: In the german version of the movie they kept the word fel for this dark magic but translated everything else. So a friend of mine was in the german translation ( which i refused to go in because i knew it would end that way) and told me that they kept fel as fel and well in german is a word that sounds exactly the same ( " Fell") and actually mean fur so.....
for many germans this was the reason to frown a bit since they were talking all the movie about fur xD
SPOILER
So that was Alodi inside the black cube!? I thought it was Aegwynn, huh. This makes me think you're right and they left Sargeras out. I hope the film does well and they make more of them. I'm interested to see where they plan on going with this.
Ok, I don't really care much for spoilers, I just care more for what I expect to see and what I hope is in the movie. Does Grommash have a cameo appearance in the movie? Does Varian have a cameo appearance in the movie? Does Garona kill Llane Wrynn? Does Stormwind burn? Is Blackhand the Warchief or is Gul'dan?
Spoilers
Grom was there-yes, not a big part though. Garona kills him and I think Gul'dan is chief but Blackhand is like a side chief or somethin'. Sorry, don't really play WoW, but I did watch the movie.
If what you say is true with mediev then the massacre of the draenei's only meaning was for sport and to fuel the dark portal,not for killjadens revenge
As long as it isn't stated , or contraticted by things in the movie, i say the movie lore is exact the same as the "real" one.
And I don't think they will change too much from the "real" story to the movies.
(Spoiler warning. Shouldn't be big, but still...)
Little changes, like to Ocrim (And who will be warchief), are inveitable in any adaption of any kind. But on a broader scope, it's not that different.
And Sargeras is still the "main bad". [Ref, first line]
Some people i know , when they saw the movie they taught Gul Dan was the one that controlled medivh.
I honestly thought that the women who told Khadgar about the chant to cleanse Medieve was Agewyn was I mistaken?
I didn't know there was a brotherhood book :( I brought the other two after I watched the film damn I'll have to buy the other
what order should I read them in ? brother hood durotan then the movie novel??
Brotherhood stands on its own, Durotan before the movie novel
Awesome thanks nobbel just need the books to arrive now
nobble in the movie gorona says ''I have not seen him but is voice was like ash and fire" could that by sargeras?
Odd.. I've listened to the novelization audiobook, and that scene at the end with Garona is different than what you read.
"This was all bone, and iron. Steel and ugly angles that served a purpose and reflected those that built it. This was an orc fortress. The one known as Gul'dan oversaw everything. Monstrous, green, he leaned on his staff. Below him was a sea of brown and green skins. Of weapons. Of simmering anger and bloodlust. Their warchief stepped forward, ready to lead Gul'dan's army. Green skin gleamed with sweat in the sun where it was not covered by armor. Strong, determined, hardened, Garona Halforcen lifted her spear."