So stoked to see someone looking into these awd systems. Many people on the forums don't even understand how they work on a basic level... I'm always daydreaming at work on how they can be improved but you are way more knowledgeable than I am in this area haha. We in the P2 world have the haldex to deal with. Potentially could be cool if someone were to come out with a controller because you could have it fully locked like how you want with your extended driveshaft, or you could put it back into auto mode how it comes OEM
Just got to take it off, crack it open and see how it works. Pretty basic once you get it apart. Can confirm that the inner pinion bearing is weak since mine had completely exploded. Edit: The controller idea is awesome if the weakness can be solved.
@@OnShouldersOfGiants for sure, I think the P2 angle gear might be beefier than than P80... Don't quote me on that. Usually the issue is the collar sleeve or the splines on either the transmission output shaft or angle gear input shaft wearing out that's the problem for us P2 people.
Once again you nailed it! Awesome basic video that will give us the knowledge to understand everything from here on out. Really looking forward to the upcoming videos!
Hey Matt, I have a V70R AWD that I use for Rallycross. It's front wheeldrive now but I raced one time in England only on the rear wheels. I took out the front driveshafts and closed the holes. Then I wellded the Viso clutch so it could not work any more and so it became rear wheel drive! Engine had arround 300BHP and after 2 races I wanted to warm the tires with a burnout and bang, the angle gear broke in halve! Luckely I brought my front driveshafts with me and finished the race on frontwheel drive. So the weak point is the angle gear. However I don't know how mutch the rear driveshafts can have because it was a wet race. Good luck with you're project!
After watching your Pocono runs I thought your 850 needed awd. Well here you go, and also answering quite a few questions that have been on my mind of late regarding the P80 awd system. Cheers mate.
I ended up testing mine last video and it was still in very very good condition. Took about 90nm of torque to spin the thing with the rear wheels locked. Still I think I am going to delete it eventually.
@@SimplyVolvo For your application deleting the viscous coupling is probably the best bet. One thing I love about my S60R is the Haldex AWD. I've installed a later model Haldex controller and solenoid from a XC90. Despite what people think it's plug and play and the rears will get full torque during acceleration even without wheel slip.
Looks like fun 👍 I wonder how the new weight distribution on the sedan will affect front traction? That AWD fuel tank has a goofy jet-pump venturi thing on driver's side, and the electric pump is on PS of the car. The jet-pump operation relies heavily on flow volume of the return line from the regulator...I thought of using two electric pumps.
Hi. Thanks for some very interesting and educational videos. I’ve been elaborating some myself into this systems to learn. You add some valuable tech info here. The AWD system explanation is very good. I have some further Q’s for you. First; the torque transfer from the M58 to the angle gear via the sleeve normally has some shortcomings and causes problem for most vihecles after some thousands of miles on the car. The sleeve simply wore out and slips over the splines. There are as I know two methods of repairing the splines, but only on the angle gear axel. Nobody has yet discussed repair or make upgrade on the splines out of the differensial in the M58. Can you elaborate around this in a video or in plain text? Also interesting to here about a possibility to install a qaifee diff in the M58, please also elaborate more about this. A theoretical view of limited slip function in the front axels in relation to the rear axels and the interconnection and function. BTW I’m from Norway, your M58 comes from a supplier I have used as well:) reg Are
Hi! Great job man! I subscribed your channel cause you answered a lot of questions i had and also I think you are having a very good job building your Volvo. At 18:40 you are talking about deleting the VC, always thinked about doing it me too, as you said your 850 is not a DD but thinking also how driveable will the car be after that... Never been shure that it will improve as one front tire and one rear will always be connected so i have never done that. Things may even be worse if in the rear will be a limited slip diff...What do you think about it?
I would definitely not switch to full time 4WD by deleting the VC on a daily. It will most likely eat up gears in the rear and angle gear. The driveability will also probably not be very good going around corners and would get sketchy. The stock rear has a G80 locker that will lock both wheels.
its hard to believe that the system is putting 3x less torque to the rear because my 850 awd which has the same awd system but it has it from the factory has no problem making the rear end kick out in the summer. it has around 300nm of torque so it would mean the rear wheels would get only 100nm of torque but 100nm is definetly not enough torque to make the rear wheels spin on a awd layout and such a rear heavy car. also atleast in the 850 awd the rear diff is a eaton g80 locker which locks up to 100-120kmh with stock power
You are misunderstanding, what I was saying is that the angle gears steps down the torque 3.31x before going through the propshaft and is then stepped back up 3.31x at the rear.
Is the diff really offset to the passenger's side of the car? It looks like it is centered in the videos. Also, if it is a Dana 30 rearend, can you get other rearend gear ratios for the housing. I know that in an AWD setup you would have to have the same gear ratios front and rear. In my case I want to use this as a RWD setup in my Amazon Wagon. I will need to play with the rearend ratio and tire size to work out my power versus RPM needs.
Nice content! Just thinking - if you remove slippage (VC) between front and rear, in theory your drive line could see the max torque tyre friction allows all the time (even when just cruising around).
If the front and rear wheel speed are locked 50/50 by removing the slippage in the VC. One tire in the front will see 50% torque and one tire in the rear will see 50% with perfect traction. This means the AG will only see a maximum of 50%. If the front starts slipping both tires in the front will lock (assuming LSD) and each tire in the front will see 25% and one tire in the rear will still see 50%. If both of the front tires are locked and still are spinning 100% of the torque will go the rear to one tire and thus 100% through the AG. And same as the front happens if that one tire starts spinning the rear tires will lock up (assuming LSD) and will be split 50% each wheel in the rear.
@@SimplyVolvo Yes that's true - I didn't mean angle gear always gets "100%", just that the drive line could potentially be under heavy torque load all the time since tyre diameters probably don't exactly match between front and rear. Though maybe this will not become a real issue if the difference is small enough (people drive around with welded diffs for example). Aand in track/drag application the tyres will be slipping anyway making this kind of irrelevant.
You sir are a professor:) In your opinion, is M66 strong as M56? Allot of guys convert to them because I guess 6 speed is more satisfying and there are no new parts available for M56, but there are different opinion about the quality. My M56 is kinda clonky, and it's a lottery to find a good used one..and got a new clutch and quaife lsd, so it's kinda long way to go M66 now
The M66 definitely isn't as strong as the M56. The needed space for the 6th gear makes the gears smaller and weaker. People usually shred 1st and 2nd gear pretty badly. I will either replace 1st and 2nd or get the Quaife M66 Sequenial Striaght Cut gearset.
Dang - you've got your work cut out for you with regard to the rear axles. Same problem regarding boots for the P1 AWD - they are not serviceable from Volvo.
I know its a shame I can't find boots... I could use MKI 960 axles, but I just looked and they don't make boots for them either anymore. BMW 330 axles are the same length and some use them on 960s. I need to design some adapter flanges for the diff side and a new wheel hub with the BMW spline and volvo wheel bearing dimensions / wheel bolt pattern.
Gig F-Virginia Whatever you do, DO NOT JOIN Volvo. Anybody who would call their Clusters a worthwhile and usable differential, when, in fact it it simply a horrible designed time bomb, that in spite of good maintenance can destroy an entire vehicle without warning. I see a PA tag on one of your vehicles. I began as an aviation mechanic (A&P rating, in 1962. Then round-d-round racing, and now I help working people keep their vehicles running, because they can't afford a professional to help. That abortion Volvo has named Haldek, differential, bevel gear, is literally the stupidest successful attempt at rediculous malpractice. If you are having trouble finding a manufacturer, please let me know. Congratulations on your expertise, and fabulous, billet-based solution to a true Volvo cluster time bomb.
Awesome video. It's so nice to finally have a person putting in the hours to solve the large issues that plague p80 and p2 cars.
So stoked to see someone looking into these awd systems. Many people on the forums don't even understand how they work on a basic level...
I'm always daydreaming at work on how they can be improved but you are way more knowledgeable than I am in this area haha.
We in the P2 world have the haldex to deal with. Potentially could be cool if someone were to come out with a controller because you could have it fully locked like how you want with your extended driveshaft, or you could put it back into auto mode how it comes OEM
Just got to take it off, crack it open and see how it works. Pretty basic once you get it apart. Can confirm that the inner pinion bearing is weak since mine had completely exploded.
Edit: The controller idea is awesome if the weakness can be solved.
@@OnShouldersOfGiants for sure, I think the P2 angle gear might be beefier than than P80... Don't quote me on that. Usually the issue is the collar sleeve or the splines on either the transmission output shaft or angle gear input shaft wearing out that's the problem for us P2 people.
You sir are a gentleman and a scholar
Dang man, thanks for solving the problems I will probably go through! again thanks, ALOT!!! 🙏🏼🙏🏼 Love this build!
Once again you nailed it! Awesome basic video that will give us the knowledge to understand everything from here on out.
Really looking forward to the upcoming videos!
Super interesting video, can’t wait to see the 850 do some full send awd launches 👍🏻
Hey Matt, I have a V70R AWD that I use for Rallycross. It's front wheeldrive now but I raced one time in England only on the rear wheels. I took out the front driveshafts and closed the holes. Then I wellded the Viso clutch so it could not work any more and so it became rear wheel drive! Engine had arround 300BHP and after 2 races I wanted to warm the tires with a burnout and bang, the angle gear broke in halve! Luckely I brought my front driveshafts with me and finished the race on frontwheel drive. So the weak point is the angle gear. However I don't know how mutch the rear driveshafts can have because it was a wet race. Good luck with you're project!
After watching your Pocono runs I thought your 850 needed awd. Well here you go, and also answering quite a few questions that have been on my mind of late regarding the P80 awd system. Cheers mate.
Thank you teacher for explaining this 4wd system 😎😎👌👌👌
You will work for Volvo engineering HQ soon bro
The biggest problem with the viscous coupling (and viscous LSD's) is the silicon fluid degrades over time causing you to loose AWD.
I ended up testing mine last video and it was still in very very good condition. Took about 90nm of torque to spin the thing with the rear wheels locked. Still I think I am going to delete it eventually.
@@SimplyVolvo
For your application deleting the viscous coupling is probably the best bet.
One thing I love about my S60R is the Haldex AWD.
I've installed a later model Haldex controller and solenoid from a XC90.
Despite what people think it's plug and play and the rears will get full torque during acceleration even without wheel slip.
Looks like fun 👍 I wonder how the new weight distribution on the sedan will affect front traction? That AWD fuel tank has a goofy jet-pump venturi thing on driver's side, and the electric pump is on PS of the car. The jet-pump operation relies heavily on flow volume of the return line from the regulator...I thought of using two electric pumps.
Amazing vid. Looking forward to the other.
Wow really good content honestly I learned a lot watching this.
Glad to hear!
Should of sent a picture of what mine looked like from my 04 VR. The only thing left of that inner/outer pinion bearing was the inner race.
That’s pretty dope man 👌
You should do torsen center dif with rear lsd and front.Those systems are real awd this setup you did is too much pain for not too much gain
Hi. Thanks for some very interesting and educational videos. I’ve been elaborating some myself into this systems to learn. You add some valuable tech info here. The AWD system explanation is very good. I have some further Q’s for you. First; the torque transfer from the M58 to the angle gear via the sleeve normally has some shortcomings and causes problem for most vihecles after some thousands of miles on the car. The sleeve simply wore out and slips over the splines. There are as I know two methods of repairing the splines, but only on the angle gear axel. Nobody has yet discussed repair or make upgrade on the splines out of the differensial in the M58. Can you elaborate around this in a video or in plain text? Also interesting to here about a possibility to install a qaifee diff in the M58, please also elaborate more about this. A theoretical view of limited slip function in the front axels in relation to the rear axels and the interconnection and function. BTW I’m from Norway, your M58 comes from a supplier I have used as well:) reg Are
Hi! Great job man! I subscribed your channel cause you answered a lot of questions i had and also I think you are having a very good job building your Volvo. At 18:40 you are talking about deleting the VC, always thinked about doing it me too, as you said your 850 is not a DD but thinking also how driveable will the car be after that... Never been shure that it will improve as one front tire and one rear will always be connected so i have never done that. Things may even be worse if in the rear will be a limited slip diff...What do you think about it?
I would definitely not switch to full time 4WD by deleting the VC on a daily. It will most likely eat up gears in the rear and angle gear. The driveability will also probably not be very good going around corners and would get sketchy. The stock rear has a G80 locker that will lock both wheels.
@@SimplyVolvo might be good on your 850, can't wait for your next videos! Keep it up!
Wen u make shaft to replace strait to diff 👍👍🇬🇧
its hard to believe that the system is putting 3x less torque to the rear because my 850 awd which has the same awd system but it has it from the factory has no problem making the rear end kick out in the summer. it has around 300nm of torque so it would mean the rear wheels would get only 100nm of torque but 100nm is definetly not enough torque to make the rear wheels spin on a awd layout and such a rear heavy car. also atleast in the 850 awd the rear diff is a eaton g80 locker which locks up to 100-120kmh with stock power
You are misunderstanding, what I was saying is that the angle gears steps down the torque 3.31x before going through the propshaft and is then stepped back up 3.31x at the rear.
Is the diff really offset to the passenger's side of the car? It looks like it is centered in the videos. Also, if it is a Dana 30 rearend, can you get other rearend gear ratios for the housing. I know that in an AWD setup you would have to have the same gear ratios front and rear. In my case I want to use this as a RWD setup in my Amazon Wagon. I will need to play with the rearend ratio and tire size to work out my power versus RPM needs.
Nice content! Just thinking - if you remove slippage (VC) between front and rear, in theory your drive line could see the max torque tyre friction allows all the time (even when just cruising around).
If the front and rear wheel speed are locked 50/50 by removing the slippage in the VC. One tire in the front will see 50% torque and one tire in the rear will see 50% with perfect traction. This means the AG will only see a maximum of 50%. If the front starts slipping both tires in the front will lock (assuming LSD) and each tire in the front will see 25% and one tire in the rear will still see 50%. If both of the front tires are locked and still are spinning 100% of the torque will go the rear to one tire and thus 100% through the AG. And same as the front happens if that one tire starts spinning the rear tires will lock up (assuming LSD) and will be split 50% each wheel in the rear.
@@SimplyVolvo Yes that's true - I didn't mean angle gear always gets "100%", just that the drive line could potentially be under heavy torque load all the time since tyre diameters probably don't exactly match between front and rear. Though maybe this will not become a real issue if the difference is small enough (people drive around with welded diffs for example). Aand in track/drag application the tyres will be slipping anyway making this kind of irrelevant.
You sir are a professor:)
In your opinion, is M66 strong as M56? Allot of guys convert to them because I guess 6 speed is more satisfying and there are no new parts available for M56, but there are different opinion about the quality. My M56 is kinda clonky, and it's a lottery to find a good used one..and got a new clutch and quaife lsd, so it's kinda long way to go M66 now
The M66 definitely isn't as strong as the M56. The needed space for the 6th gear makes the gears smaller and weaker. People usually shred 1st and 2nd gear pretty badly. I will either replace 1st and 2nd or get the Quaife M66 Sequenial Striaght Cut gearset.
@@SimplyVolvo That would be groovy upgrade:) Thanks for the answer
Dang - you've got your work cut out for you with regard to the rear axles. Same problem regarding boots for the P1 AWD - they are not serviceable from Volvo.
I know its a shame I can't find boots... I could use MKI 960 axles, but I just looked and they don't make boots for them either anymore. BMW 330 axles are the same length and some use them on 960s. I need to design some adapter flanges for the diff side and a new wheel hub with the BMW spline and volvo wheel bearing dimensions / wheel bolt pattern.
Not to go full morty here but... You son of a bitch... I am in.!
Hey bro do you have a Instagram
Gig F-Virginia
Whatever you do, DO NOT JOIN Volvo. Anybody who would call their Clusters a worthwhile and usable differential, when, in fact it it simply a horrible designed time bomb, that in spite of good maintenance can destroy an entire vehicle without warning. I see a PA tag on one of your vehicles. I began as an aviation mechanic (A&P rating, in 1962. Then round-d-round racing, and now I help working people keep their vehicles running, because they can't afford a professional to help. That abortion Volvo has named Haldek, differential, bevel gear, is literally the stupidest successful attempt at rediculous malpractice. If you are having trouble finding a manufacturer, please let me know. Congratulations on your expertise, and fabulous, billet-based solution to a true Volvo cluster time bomb.