The locker will help keep you from exploding the differential. When you have a tire spinning, then it grabs traction, you can blow out the spider gears or worse the ring and pinion and then your stranded. Ask me how I know 😅.
I’m out in Anza Borrego several times a year. The issue is traction in the sand, which can be very deep and even more slippery. This was a good challenge and the advice at the end was spot on. Thanks, Chris !
That was a great comparison. We bought the 2023-AWD in late 2022 and drove it all through a frozen Montana winter. We live at high elevation in the Rocky Mts so lots of snow, solid ice covered roads, hilly terrain etc. Equipped only with stock size studded snows it went everywhere just fine. I really think that AWD is the better for most people and situations. More so for people that aren’t familiar with true 4-Wheel Drive. Unless you plan on going seriously off-road in which case you’re probably better off with a low range capable 4x4 and a locker. We installed slightly taller BFG-AT tires for the summer and the traction in dirt, mud, eel snot etc is more then adequate. The traction control handle lose slippery surfaces with ease. I’ve have been in uneven, bumpy, uphill, off camber trails like you demonstrated and it was nerve racking. Don’t know how people do it. Nerves of steel I suppose. Rolling or even getting some trail damage would be a serious bummer and a buzzkill for sure. BTW when people put taller tires on their Sprinters you are changing the final gear ratio and losing massive torque and low range/speed capability. The standard fix on Jeeps and off-road vehicles in general is change the gearing in your axles to get your crawl ratio back to normal range or even lower then stock. Going from stock 30” to 33” tall tires is seriously going to effect your low speed off road crawling ability and not in a good way. Plus these Sprinter’s suspension articulation is poor even with upgraded suspension kits installed. They lift a wheel extremely easily on uneven terrain. Remember everyone, Keep the Shiny side up and be careful out there.
Yeah nerve racking to say the least.. I rolled my Jeep and its scary as hell.. To me these sprinters get you further then your average KOA but now where I would take my Jeep and offroad trailer.. and for my wife that's a good thing :)
Thanks, this is the best comparison I've seen on the 4wd/AWD options. It looks like the locker makes the biggest difference regardless of 4x4/AWD versions. Another key difference is the turbo setup. I have a 2021 and have to wait thru turbo lag to gain the torque needed. I think that is the main power difference. The new twin turbo helps with the turbo lag issue. Thanks for sharing.
Hi Chris, always enjoy your videos. I’m curious what you think of the Ford Transit AWD with the Eco boost engine. I just bought the Storyteller Overland Mode LT with their standard upfits for this Mode and I find it quite capable on rough roads (but nothing like in this video) and very stable on both highways and dirt. I didn’t go with one of the Sprinter Modes because as a former MBZ owner I am biased against the brand…too many problems and too much time in the shop. Thanks for all you do!
I had a 2020 Revel with Agile upgrades. I used my brake just a tad and I frequently drove some sketchy hills and desert terrain. The brake worked every time to get the power to the traction tire. It also helped with the throttle and speed control. I did have high and low range on mine. As always, I enjoyed the video.
I don't think it matters how many wheel are driven, if they're off the ground and you don't have a lockable diff or a LSD then all the drive goes to the spinning wheel. That's 4WD or AWD, but yes a low ratio will provide better control. AWD will just try to grab the spinning wheel a bit, but it's just a bit. The diff makes all the difference if you don't have articulation or suspension travel to keep the wheels on the ground. A rear diff lock (or LSD) is all (most) people need. A front locking diff is only really for extremes. Lots of articulation or suspension travel is an issue on tarmac, unless you're getting very trick and pricey! Nice vid!!
I have a Quigley 4x4 Transit with a rear e-locker from a F-150 and it's surprisingly capable. Would've been interesting to see it in this comparison, but I should probably finish installing my sliders.
I've driven all over Anza Borrego with with Quigley 4x4 Transit (and no rear locker). With its manual transfer case, and LO range, the traction is very good. No "nanny" controls to worry about. If you ALSO have a rear locker, I suspect you'd be getting up with very little effort. And the gas-powered 3.5L EcoBoost in the Transit has power to spare, and less complexity/headaches compared with the Sprinter Diesels. The only downside I see to the Transit platform is that it might be more difficult to add larger tires. For example, I've seen 35s on a Sprinter, but I don't think I've ever seen a Transit on something bigger than 33s.
@@jedarama Yeah, the Transit would need new wheelwells to fit 35s. Even the Sprinter needs trimming for 35s. In general, the Sprinter will have more clearance than the Transit, but the lack of a center diff and poor gear reduction will handicap the Sprinter for control and traction.
HI CHRIS 👋 THANK YOU FOR COMPARING THEM ! THIS SHOULD HELP ANYONE LOOKING TO BUY ! OR JUST THINKING ABOUT GETTING ONE . THAT ONE PART LOOKED A LOT TIPSY GLAD IT DIDN'T TIP OVER ! BE SAFE ! HAVE FUN ! ENJOYED 🍨 🍨 🍨 🍨 🍨 🍨 🍨 🍨 🍨 🍨 GOD BLESS YOU ALWAYS ON YOUR ADVENTURES 🙏 THANK YOU 🙏
I have seen you have been testing the Sprinter for a while now. I must say I am not too crazy about it. Since so many people are using it, the stealth factor is essentially gone. Plus given my budget, it is also rather expensive to risk taking it on difficult trails and then have to worry about it. I probably would feel more comfortable with an older beater for the trail, alike a 4x4 converted E-250.
If you really want to see how bad these sprinters are, look for the last video from Matt's Offroad Recovery: "Too sketchy for a van on this trail". It fought against him all the way. Probably better off with a Transit AWD.
@@JD-xo3xz Just watched it. Looked scary. The Humvee in the end was much better. 😀 I check Matt's every once in a while. 👍 Last episode I saw was the stuck Earthroamer AKA attempted mixing of off-road and heavily loaded luxury, that went literally sideways.
@@JD-xo3xz He had ESP on and neither owner or Matt knew how to disable it. These things are surprisingly capable on bigger tires and especially if you spring for the AO locker. The transits have very little ground clearance, can't be lifted far due to CV angles, and have terrible approach/departure angles.
Until you get a locker you should try a little BTM (brake throttle modulation). Apply a little brakes when slipping. Sometimes helps push power to the spinning wheel.
Do not like how much time it has to take to think . shouldn't have to play games with 4x4 and the traction. My wife and I are thinking about buying one but the more I see about the 4x4 the more I think about a different option. to much money to be anoyd and having to out think a computer . I want full control of my 4x4 . Having to figure out it's tantrums . You have to put it in park on a hill to get to shift . No thanks. Thanks for the review . Even though I know you don't read the comments. RIDE ON.
This isn't a good test. 1. AWD is just more of a stability control rather than independent driver control. The AWD system is to help maintain a control automatically with the PCM such as icy roads or slippery surfaces also such as rain. 4WD are dedicated offroading systems. With the help of the PCM on some new or modified vehicles (exluding manual hubs) this can provide the locking differentials to set a much lower gear ratio to gain that traction on the independent tire. Well at least try too. Overall keep this in mind. AWD is not offroading capable. In fact you might even do more damage to the powertrain doing so.
So funny, I thought I saw your van (I live in the Anza-Borrego ) but I was like nah, can’t be . Haha it was !! Cami ask if you remember what trail you were on ? It almost looks like you are in the OHV area . Thanks for the comparison
Great video- those are some gnarly tracks for an AWD vehicle! AWD & these "4WD" MB systems will absolutely get you stuck, just like any other AWD system. Ruts are their executioner. It is very easy to get into a spot where a wheel lifts and due to the positioning, the other tires just won't grab. AWD will get you into places that you cannot get out of when trying to go off-road driving. The practical reality is that the "4WD" with the low range is actually a AWD with a low range because both systems are computer-controlled traction systems which shift power from wheel to wheel as demonstrated, so you never have all four actually driving you as with a traditional 4x4 with at least locking hubs. Rear lockers are a minimal requirement on these IMO. If MB created a true human-managed 4x4 capability with front locking of some type in conjunction with the full-time AWD, it would be an excellent system!
I’m tired of seeing the sprinter comparison with the Agile AWD which has the ARB locker, it’s just a sales pitch. I would say rather see a comparison between similarly equipped 4WD and AWD sprinters with STOCK drivetrains.
Nice video. I only wish you had mentioned the tire pressures used and also how would the 2020 vans would have done with traction control off? I found a similar scenario recently where my van was in 4WD low pedal to the floor and wasn’t moving or spinning but somehow eventually it made progress and got me out. Could not understand why there was no power delivery but good to see this is just how it works. What would “traction control off” do?
So Chris, if you could only choose one, AWD with rear lockers, or 4WD with rear lockers, what’s the verdict. Also, MB or Ford Transit. I’m an over landing rock crawler with a Jeep gladiator fully outfitted from the bottom up. I plan to do the same with a van with a lot less rock crawling. Keeping my JT.
Thanks for this video. I’m looking to build a custom 170 and I wasn’t sure if I should find a 4x4 or go with the new AWD. I have an agile kit on my current econoline and they are on the short list for my suspension upgrade in the van build
Chris-- i see alot of these kinds of videos from auto-focused channels, but even so, I enjoyed yours more, it felt more relevant to me and to overlanding in general. Just make a promise that you'll never do a winnebago revel drag race and call that content ;)
Very helpful video! Thank you! A bit off topic; the price per g. Diesel B20 being below the cheapest 87 gasoline makes me add that to the equation of v6 vs I4 twin turbo. One of the closest gas-stations(Chevron) to home constantly reminds me about that. I've read a piece of the MB manual where it says that use of B20 is 'restricted' on the V6 engine. Where new owners of the I4 twin turbo engine state on the Sprinter community weblog that B20 diesel is perfectly fine to use along with 100 % petroleum diesel. Can you comment on this please?!
Interesting. Per the Sprinter manual, and many reviews, the stock Sprinter "4x4" is an archaic AWD third party product. After Ford Transit came out with a superior AWD Mercedes designed their own and looks like they did a great job. However, when in gnar like that the Transit has Mud/Ruts Mode and that turns Traction Control off. In this mode my 2022 Transit climbs gnar like a goat. In normal mode the response is as your AWD did. Transits need a granny gear option. The Manual 1 level isn't low enough. However, I would only need it for descents for relieving the breaks. I do every 4x4 ascent in just Automatic and Mud/Ruts. Most of my off-roading is in the Colorado Rockies and south Utah.
Not an apples to apples comparison, especially with an empty van being 3-4k lbs lighter. No mention of whether ESP and parking sensors were off. That said, still appreciate the efforts by you and AO to show some differences.
@@hkgfdx I recently watched John, the Owl Van guy, do a comparison of the 144 v 170. He basically said the 170 is much less capable than the 144 for off-roading. I think due to belly height and exit clearance for the rear end.
Interesting comparison. I don't have or need something like this in the UK. I do watch an off-road recovery channel in the USA. He had to rescue a stuck Sprinter and drove it out as the owner was scared it would tip over. He (recovery guy) complained that the van would cut the throttle if it revved to high driving off road. I assume then it's done to protect the drive train. Still got it out though. I don't know the specification, of that van though.
I was thinking of the same rescue video. He was getting very frustrated that the van simply would not allow him to do what he knew he needed to in order to get out. I think I would find that annoying if I owned one of these, but like you, don't need something like this, so I guess it doesn't matter 😄
@@parkcaro Yeah, don't need one. A smaller van would be nice, but not much offroading in the UK anyway. I wonder if the traction/throttle control could be turned off, but he or the owner didn't know.
Matt, at Matt's Off Road Recovery. Yes, disabling the Adaptive ESP would make it easier to travel off-road. This goes for any car. The Sprinter's system is very overreaching though.
UA-camr MORR's driving a Sprinter off Utah's Honeymoon Trail is interesting to compare to the driving in this video. A lot of the same technical limitations had to be overcome, but it made it.
You need a locker in the back, minimum. Front would be good too, especially on vehicles that do not have enough suspension travel to keep all the wheels on the ground.
Great video! So, is there an air locker in your future? Also, did you notice much difference with the 2.5 Fox shocks vs the 2.0? I plan to get the rear shock brackets that you got in a visit to Agile in a couple months. Also on the schedule for the air locker. I might not use it to its full potential, but I kind of look at it as a "Recovery mitigation" option. Hoping I don't need to use the winch or Maxtraxx boards as much..😇
So this 2023 AWD Sprinter has a lift, larger tires, and a rear locker. I'd like to see how a stock 2023 AWD compares to a 4wd sprinter. What engine does the 2023 have?
Time taken to complete the obstacle between the 4x4 and AWD was pretty much the same. But the AWD version lost its 4matic system 🤣 Agiles system clearly works and its great if you are planning to do these kinds of trails with a sprinter van.
I found my 24’ class c coachman with a Dana 60 up front and a Detroit TrueTrack in the rear is a better and cheaper alternative to a Sprinter with a locker. I also don’t have a def system. My Ford chassis is more reliable and most auto shops can work on it.
what criteria are you using to differntiate 4wd and awd? As they are essentially the same thing, it has 4 wheels so all (4) wheel drive. is the same as 4 wheel drive. if you're meaning a centre diff lock, then has it got an open centre diff or viscous or electrinic controlled clutch to direct drive to the front axle. you really need to explain the formats very wel before even considering starting on the comparison testing. As far as I see, they are the same thing, jsut differnt engine and BTC electronics.
@@JockeSelin As I see it, as a mechanical engineer of 30 years in the motor trade, there is no actual difference, it's people confuse the terms depending on vehicle class, you might be tempted to call something with selectable transfer case ratios as 4wd over one that doesn't as awd, but in essence it's not really enough. My example that confuses all that say 4wd has a locking centre diff; so I point them to the Sierra 4x4 and the Range Rover P38 (1995-2001) as the essential differnces in the two drive trains is the selectable transfer box ratios in the Range Rover. Other than that, they are very similar with viscous coupled front axle drive. looking into the sprinter system, the ages of vehicles run the same hardware, which is a similar design to the Borg Warner transfer case in the P38, so both are in fact the same designation, whichever one you choose. 🙂 Hope that helps or might add to the confusion.
@@overlandready Yeah the naming difference is arbitrary and falls apart when applied to any modern car. Land Cruiser 150/200/GX/etc.. are AWD with central lockers and 4L from stock. So is it AWD or 4WD? Also, the former gen Sprinter 4WD can technically be ridden like that all the time, even at high-way speeds for years, becoming pretty much AWD :- ).
I agree with you. If all the wheels are driven by the motor, and it has 4 wheels, then it’s 4x4 or 4WD or AWD. How the torque is distributed varies by design and amount. I’m mainly annoyed by that two very similar terms, 4WD and AWD was thrown around during the whole video without defining what they mean by them and why they needed to be distinguished from each other. Obviously this is more a reference to the drivetrain than the vehicle type, where I personally differentiate a bit between a 4x4 (Defender, G Wagen, Jeep, etc) and an AWD (Subaru Impreza/Legacy, Audi Quattro, etc). And no, I’m not that bothered by it that’d I’d try to look it up, just left a bit of a sour taste, that’s all. I’ll survive. 😂
Thank you! This was really interesting to see the different behaviors. Super amateur question: At about the 7:30 mark, how is this not frying a clutch somewhere?
Hi guys, i see those sprinters doing wonderfull things, I have a 516 CDI 2013 4x4, i went to the desert in tunisia and after 2 days only I have a join loosing grease, and problem to the rear suspension leafs, can you tell me what upgrades should I do to make the whole think more robust in order not to fear to under take some good full wheel driving?
Have a VW transporter 4motion with factory rear locker. The traction control with the locker engaged or not is very impressive . Also a fairly small light vehicle, so quite capable off road with a small lift/ bigger tyres.
I was waiting for this episode: Thanks Chris. I am between Land Cruiser 200, 2023 Nissan Armada and this Sprinter Van. Test drove a sprinter too. The AWD is not ideal compared to true range transfercase. At 9:18ish (slow motion) you can see the shockload (driver tire) going in the front drive lines when disengaging the power to front. These shockloads eventually destroys teeth/tooth in drivelines. Also 4 Cylinder to move that big van is also a concern. Keep your 21 Sprinter. Will look for a low mile 21-22 4x4 sprinter unmodified.
Help me out here, did I miss something? In the conclusion you said AWD stock model is better than the older 4wd, yet atleast to me it seems that 08:25 AWD hard test is significantly poorer performance than 10:55 4wd hard test. AWD digs a lot for traction and that can end up bad in soft terrain where as 4wd might move slower in general but doesn't seem to risk digging itself too deep into the terrain. If this test was on snow, the free spinning AWD dig would make it stuck for good I think. Do you agree or did I miss something here? My another question would be how is the fuel economy on tarmac between the two? Arguably most people will still use the car for long road trips on highways and such, so does the AWD bring a hit in fuel economy VS the 4wd on 2wheel mode? Ofcourse the newer enginge on AWD is more fuel economic, but how far can it come to mee the effeciency of the older Sprinter with 2 wheel drive mode selected?
awesome video! Getting an AWD in the future! basic question: does anybody know what color the "light tan" sprinter is? Pebble grey? stone grey? Whatever it is, I like!
I own a fully outfitted Jeep gladiator that is a great one person rig for extreme over landing. I’m currently looking at vans to explore with the grandkids. I’m leaning towards the 170. What’s your thoughts on the extra length when my primary focus will dirt trails. Also any opinion on Sprinter verse Transit. Driving down to Baja I’m a little worried about parts and maintenance for the Sprinter down south but really prefer the Sprinter over the Transit. Thx
A 170 would make a great base for an adventure van with a bit more interior space. Obviously you lose a bit of agility and off road capability, but that may be the right trade off for you and your situation. I’m sorry I have no experience with the Transits; I do love the 4x4 Sprinter!
Is the revel a true 4WD with a split 50/50 transfer case? I ask because it looked like around 7:25 the front wheels had purchase but were not assisting, noticed you racking the steering back and forth which could help if there was no traction to both wheels, but since neither were spinning free I'd guess that it's not a true 50/50 split 4WD system. That said I know nothing about the Mercedes system. Possibly the traction control system was hindering the 4WD output to the front wheels in this case.
look up the driveline of most Land Rovers, you'll find a fair few have viscous centre diff, no manual locking. In 1999 the P38 has TC to 62Mph, most people consider this a 4wd, in essence, it has no locking diffs, sowhat you referred to as Awd?
These van are everything you don’t want for off roading: extremely long wheelbase, top heavy, and unibody. I own a high roof converted 2wd Ford Transit and Jeep Rubicon JL. From 0 to 10, I would rate my Jeep a 10 for off road capability and a 1 for my van. Where do you think these van are on this scale?
This might be apples to oranges, but how would a full time 4wd compare to AWD? Is full time 4wd just AWD with a low range? I'm kinda disappointed Orangy wasn't used on that same trail to show what a full locked 4wd could do.
The locker will help keep you from exploding the differential. When you have a tire spinning, then it grabs traction, you can blow out the spider gears or worse the ring and pinion and then your stranded. Ask me how I know 😅.
Love my locker and we'll aware of issues if I abuse it it's not a rock crawler
😁🫣😬
I’m out in Anza Borrego several times a year. The issue is traction in the sand, which can be very deep and even more slippery. This was a good challenge and the advice at the end was spot on. Thanks, Chris !
I was not aware of the fact that the current AWD can be equipped with a locker😮 - thank you !
Planning on a sprinter purchase in the very near future this was great information. Thanks Chris for doing this. Take care fella.
Pucker up moment at 11:25! Great demo on the differences. I have a 2023 AWD but I don't think I'd push it into areas like this without the locker.
Yeah I rolled my Jeep. I would never take a sprinter over stuff like this.. Just wouldn't be worth it for me and my wife would never go for it.
Thanks Chris! I always eat up technical comparisons like this.
That was a great comparison. We bought the 2023-AWD in late 2022 and drove it all through a frozen Montana winter. We live at high elevation in the Rocky Mts so lots of snow, solid ice covered roads, hilly terrain etc. Equipped only with stock size studded snows it went everywhere just fine. I really think that AWD is the better for most people and situations. More so for people that aren’t familiar with true 4-Wheel Drive. Unless you plan on going seriously off-road in which case you’re probably better off with a low range capable 4x4 and a locker. We installed slightly taller BFG-AT tires for the summer and the traction in dirt, mud, eel snot etc is more then adequate. The traction control handle lose slippery surfaces with ease. I’ve have been in uneven, bumpy, uphill, off camber trails like you demonstrated and it was nerve racking. Don’t know how people do it. Nerves of steel I suppose. Rolling or even getting some trail damage would be a serious bummer and a buzzkill for sure. BTW when people put taller tires on their Sprinters you are changing the final gear ratio and losing massive torque and low range/speed capability. The standard fix on Jeeps and off-road vehicles in general is change the gearing in your axles to get your crawl ratio back to normal range or even lower then stock. Going from stock 30” to 33” tall tires is seriously going to effect your low speed off road crawling ability and not in a good way. Plus these Sprinter’s suspension articulation is poor even with upgraded suspension kits installed. They lift a wheel extremely easily on uneven terrain. Remember everyone, Keep the Shiny side up and be careful out there.
Shannon always says, on ice, snow tires on a Camry trumps street tires on a 4x4 anything!
Enjoy your new ride!!!
Yeah nerve racking to say the least.. I rolled my Jeep and its scary as hell.. To me these sprinters get you further then your average KOA but now where I would take my Jeep and offroad trailer.. and for my wife that's a good thing :)
Wow that was fascinating to watch
In still leaning on the 4wd van
Under rated video. Seeing what stock anything should be a baseline for all these "performance" mods.
Thanks, this is the best comparison I've seen on the 4wd/AWD options. It looks like the locker makes the biggest difference regardless of 4x4/AWD versions. Another key difference is the turbo setup. I have a 2021 and have to wait thru turbo lag to gain the torque needed. I think that is the main power difference. The new twin turbo helps with the turbo lag issue. Thanks for sharing.
Very impressive. Would of never thought. And yes AO are great to work with, a ton of knowledge and very friendly.
Hi Chris, always enjoy your videos. I’m curious what you think of the Ford Transit AWD with the Eco boost engine. I just bought the Storyteller Overland Mode LT with their standard upfits for this Mode and I find it quite capable on rough roads (but nothing like in this video) and very stable on both highways and dirt. I didn’t go with one of the Sprinter Modes because as a former MBZ owner I am biased against the brand…too many problems and too much time in the shop. Thanks for all you do!
Very detailed and informative.
Glad it was helpful!
My guess is that transfer case in the AWD is heating up a ton in these situations and I wouldn’t expect it to last long if this happens frequently.
Love the guy at AO. They know there stuff.
Thank you Sir! We were honored to have Chris and his expertise with us! Definitely a very informative trip to the desert!
Excellent comparison. Learned a lot and glad I watched.
I had a 2020 Revel with Agile upgrades. I used my brake just a tad and I frequently drove some sketchy hills and desert terrain. The brake worked every time to get the power to the traction tire. It also helped with the throttle and speed control. I did have high and low range on mine. As always, I enjoyed the video.
🔥🔥
Thank you for the video
😎👍
I don't think it matters how many wheel are driven, if they're off the ground and you don't have a lockable diff or a LSD then all the drive goes to the spinning wheel. That's 4WD or AWD, but yes a low ratio will provide better control. AWD will just try to grab the spinning wheel a bit, but it's just a bit. The diff makes all the difference if you don't have articulation or suspension travel to keep the wheels on the ground. A rear diff lock (or LSD) is all (most) people need. A front locking diff is only really for extremes. Lots of articulation or suspension travel is an issue on tarmac, unless you're getting very trick and pricey! Nice vid!!
I have a Quigley 4x4 Transit with a rear e-locker from a F-150 and it's surprisingly capable. Would've been interesting to see it in this comparison, but I should probably finish installing my sliders.
I've driven all over Anza Borrego with with Quigley 4x4 Transit (and no rear locker). With its manual transfer case, and LO range, the traction is very good. No "nanny" controls to worry about. If you ALSO have a rear locker, I suspect you'd be getting up with very little effort. And the gas-powered 3.5L EcoBoost in the Transit has power to spare, and less complexity/headaches compared with the Sprinter Diesels. The only downside I see to the Transit platform is that it might be more difficult to add larger tires. For example, I've seen 35s on a Sprinter, but I don't think I've ever seen a Transit on something bigger than 33s.
@@jedarama Yeah, the Transit would need new wheelwells to fit 35s. Even the Sprinter needs trimming for 35s. In general, the Sprinter will have more clearance than the Transit, but the lack of a center diff and poor gear reduction will handicap the Sprinter for control and traction.
Nice. Good thought provoking video. First thought is…Air lockers for the win!
awesome review! big thanks!
11:24 that launch, wow!
It was an epic launch forsure!
HI CHRIS 👋
THANK YOU FOR COMPARING THEM ! THIS SHOULD HELP ANYONE LOOKING TO BUY ! OR JUST THINKING ABOUT GETTING ONE . THAT ONE PART LOOKED A LOT TIPSY GLAD IT DIDN'T TIP OVER ! BE SAFE ! HAVE FUN ! ENJOYED 🍨 🍨 🍨 🍨 🍨 🍨 🍨 🍨 🍨 🍨 GOD BLESS YOU ALWAYS ON YOUR ADVENTURES 🙏 THANK YOU 🙏
Thank you David!
Shannon, don’t be surprised when Chris comes home saying he had a rear locker installed on the Revel
That was the first thing she mentioned when I got home!
Ha!
Cant wait to see your arb airlocker install video chris haha.
I have seen you have been testing the Sprinter for a while now. I must say I am not too crazy about it. Since so many people are using it, the stealth factor is essentially gone. Plus given my budget, it is also rather expensive to risk taking it on difficult trails and then have to worry about it. I probably would feel more comfortable with an older beater for the trail, alike a 4x4 converted E-250.
If you really want to see how bad these sprinters are, look for the last video from Matt's Offroad Recovery: "Too sketchy for a van on this trail". It fought against him all the way. Probably better off with a Transit AWD.
@@JD-xo3xz Just watched it. Looked scary. The Humvee in the end was much better. 😀
I check Matt's every once in a while. 👍 Last episode I saw was the stuck Earthroamer AKA attempted mixing of off-road and heavily loaded luxury, that went literally sideways.
That was staged for Matt
@@JD-xo3xz He had ESP on and neither owner or Matt knew how to disable it. These things are surprisingly capable on bigger tires and especially if you spring for the AO locker. The transits have very little ground clearance, can't be lifted far due to CV angles, and have terrible approach/departure angles.
Until you get a locker you should try a little BTM (brake throttle modulation). Apply a little brakes when slipping. Sometimes helps push power to the spinning wheel.
Great video thank you!
Excellent !
Do not like how much time it has to take to think . shouldn't have to play games with 4x4 and the traction. My wife and I are thinking about buying one but the more I see about the 4x4 the more I think about a different option. to much money to be anoyd and having to out think a computer . I want full control of my 4x4 . Having to figure out it's tantrums . You have to put it in park on a hill to get to shift . No thanks. Thanks for the review . Even though I know you don't read the comments. RIDE ON.
This isn't a good test.
1. AWD is just more of a stability control rather than independent driver control.
The AWD system is to help maintain a control automatically with the PCM such as icy roads or slippery surfaces also such as rain.
4WD are dedicated offroading systems. With the help of the PCM on some new or modified vehicles (exluding manual hubs) this can provide the locking differentials to set a much lower gear ratio to gain that traction on the independent tire. Well at least try too. Overall keep this in mind. AWD is not offroading capable. In fact you might even do more damage to the powertrain doing so.
So funny, I thought I saw your van (I live in the Anza-Borrego ) but I was like nah, can’t be . Haha it was !! Cami ask if you remember what trail you were on ? It almost looks like you are in the OHV area . Thanks for the comparison
Great video- those are some gnarly tracks for an AWD vehicle! AWD & these "4WD" MB systems will absolutely get you stuck, just like any other AWD system. Ruts are their executioner. It is very easy to get into a spot where a wheel lifts and due to the positioning, the other tires just won't grab. AWD will get you into places that you cannot get out of when trying to go off-road driving. The practical reality is that the "4WD" with the low range is actually a AWD with a low range because both systems are computer-controlled traction systems which shift power from wheel to wheel as demonstrated, so you never have all four actually driving you as with a traditional 4x4 with at least locking hubs. Rear lockers are a minimal requirement on these IMO. If MB created a true human-managed 4x4 capability with front locking of some type in conjunction with the full-time AWD, it would be an excellent system!
Its called Iglhaut 4WD. You bring a 2WD Sprinter and pay 30k € and You get 1:3,5 Reduction and 3 lockers, edit: and 150 mm more ground clearence
I’m tired of seeing the sprinter comparison with the Agile AWD which has the ARB locker, it’s just a sales pitch. I would say rather see a comparison between similarly equipped 4WD and AWD sprinters with STOCK drivetrains.
The tires look rock hard , did you lower the pressure?
Why didn’t you lock the trans in 1st gear it’s lower than the 4x4 ? Try that in the next video please
So glad I bought a 2021 E350 cutaway van with the 7.3 Godzilla motor. A 4wheel drive conversion and its still cheaper than the Sprinter.
Rear lockers for the win
Nice video. I only wish you had mentioned the tire pressures used and also how would the 2020 vans would have done with traction control off? I found a similar scenario recently where my van was in 4WD low pedal to the floor and wasn’t moving or spinning but somehow eventually it made progress and got me out. Could not understand why there was no power delivery but good to see this is just how it works. What would “traction control off” do?
So Chris, if you could only choose one, AWD with rear lockers, or 4WD with rear lockers, what’s the verdict. Also, MB or Ford Transit. I’m an over landing rock crawler with a Jeep gladiator fully outfitted from the bottom up. I plan to do the same with a van with a lot less rock crawling. Keeping my JT.
I commented on John’s page this is not a fair comparison. The AWD van is empty so it weighs 2000 pounds less than your Revel.
Well I thought is was a great video. Some apparently didn't. Nice job. Too bad about the smash up on the one van.
I suppose with the rear lockers there is less wear and tear on the engines and transmissions.
That is good information
Thanks for this video. I’m looking to build a custom 170 and I wasn’t sure if I should find a 4x4 or go with the new AWD. I have an agile kit on my current econoline and they are on the short list for my suspension upgrade in the van build
Lockers front and rear would make them so much more capable and look after the tracks without digging holes everywhere to.
Its about reliability and simplicity, 4wd for the win
I honestly dont know why mercedes didnt used the gwagen hardware for this Offroad sprinter! It wouod have been really awesome! 😅😅
Chris-- i see alot of these kinds of videos from auto-focused channels, but even so, I enjoyed yours more, it felt more relevant to me and to overlanding in general. Just make a promise that you'll never do a winnebago revel drag race and call that content ;)
Very helpful video! Thank you! A bit off topic; the price per g. Diesel B20 being below the cheapest 87 gasoline makes me add that to the equation of v6 vs I4 twin turbo. One of the closest gas-stations(Chevron) to home constantly reminds me about that. I've read a piece of the MB manual where it says that use of B20 is 'restricted' on the V6 engine. Where new owners of the I4 twin turbo engine state on the Sprinter community weblog that B20 diesel is perfectly fine to use along with 100 % petroleum diesel. Can you comment on this please?!
Interesting. Per the Sprinter manual, and many reviews, the stock Sprinter "4x4" is an archaic AWD third party product. After Ford Transit came out with a superior AWD Mercedes designed their own and looks like they did a great job. However, when in gnar like that the Transit has Mud/Ruts Mode and that turns Traction Control off. In this mode my 2022 Transit climbs gnar like a goat. In normal mode the response is as your AWD did. Transits need a granny gear option. The Manual 1 level isn't low enough. However, I would only need it for descents for relieving the breaks. I do every 4x4 ascent in just Automatic and Mud/Ruts. Most of my off-roading is in the Colorado Rockies and south Utah.
Interesting!
Not an apples to apples comparison, especially with an empty van being 3-4k lbs lighter. No mention of whether ESP and parking sensors were off. That said, still appreciate the efforts by you and AO to show some differences.
We can't wait to see our 2023 AWD fully built to really get a full comparison! Stay tuned haha!
Agreed. I would have liked to see a comp of traction at default settings VS all the computers clicked off. Then show the aftermarket lockers.
@@AgileoffroadAWD or 4WD in your opinion. Is the 170 to big for off road. I’m in SD so I plan on having Agile do my work.
@@hkgfdx I recently watched John, the Owl Van guy, do a comparison of the 144 v 170. He basically said the 170 is much less capable than the 144 for off-roading. I think due to belly height and exit clearance for the rear end.
Definitely nice ; trailcon did a trip in one an Marcus had a 2wd one was pretty impressive would be greate for tourer
11:20 I'd have a heart attack. Tipping one over is the equivalent of totaling one of these.
Sprinter technician and I will show you how we survive it, just because we can.😄
They work best with traction control off. A throttle controller also helps a great deal with acceleration.
Interesting comparison. I don't have or need something like this in the UK. I do watch an off-road recovery channel in the USA. He had to rescue a stuck Sprinter and drove it out as the owner was scared it would tip over. He (recovery guy) complained that the van would cut the throttle if it revved to high driving off road. I assume then it's done to protect the drive train. Still got it out though. I don't know the specification, of that van though.
I was thinking of the same rescue video. He was getting very frustrated that the van simply would not allow him to do what he knew he needed to in order to get out. I think I would find that annoying if I owned one of these, but like you, don't need something like this, so I guess it doesn't matter 😄
@@parkcaro Yeah, don't need one. A smaller van would be nice, but not much offroading in the UK anyway. I wonder if the traction/throttle control could be turned off, but he or the owner didn't know.
Matt, at Matt's Off Road Recovery. Yes, disabling the Adaptive ESP would make it easier to travel off-road. This goes for any car. The Sprinter's system is very overreaching though.
Interesting. Thanks for the video.
UA-camr MORR's driving a Sprinter off Utah's Honeymoon Trail is interesting to compare to the driving in this video. A lot of the same technical limitations had to be overcome, but it made it.
You need a locker in the back, minimum. Front would be good too, especially on vehicles that do not have enough suspension travel to keep all the wheels on the ground.
Great video!
Great video! So, is there an air locker in your future? Also, did you notice much difference with the 2.5 Fox shocks vs the 2.0? I plan to get the rear shock brackets that you got in a visit to Agile in a couple months. Also on the schedule for the air locker. I might not use it to its full potential, but I kind of look at it as a "Recovery mitigation" option. Hoping I don't need to use the winch or Maxtraxx boards as much..😇
We are looking forward to having you in a few months! 👍👍
did you guys lower the air from tires ? its a big factor for success specially in the sand . Thanks for the video it nice to see sprinter in action :)
they did you can see the low air on the rear camera shots..
Well done!
Check out Matt’s off road recovery 7/8/23 had big problems with the AWD.
After seeing that, there's no way I'd take one of these turkeys off road
They should have turned ESP off.
Thanks!
Why thank you so much! ❤️ 🙏
I've been told you want the AWD traction control off when in difficult terrain or sometimes snow and Ice.???
So this 2023 AWD Sprinter has a lift, larger tires, and a rear locker. I'd like to see how a stock 2023 AWD compares to a 4wd sprinter.
What engine does the 2023 have?
Time taken to complete the obstacle between the 4x4 and AWD was pretty much the same. But the AWD version lost its 4matic system 🤣 Agiles system clearly works and its great if you are planning to do these kinds of trails with a sprinter van.
The expedition camper vans such Sprinters cost so much that adding a locker is like filling up the gas tank.
GREAT video!
Glad you enjoyed it, thank you!
I found my 24’ class c coachman with a Dana 60 up front and a Detroit TrueTrack in the rear is a better and cheaper alternative to a Sprinter with a locker. I also don’t have a def system. My Ford chassis is more reliable and most auto shops can work on it.
what criteria are you using to differntiate 4wd and awd? As they are essentially the same thing, it has 4 wheels so all (4) wheel drive. is the same as 4 wheel drive. if you're meaning a centre diff lock, then has it got an open centre diff or viscous or electrinic controlled clutch to direct drive to the front axle. you really need to explain the formats very wel before even considering starting on the comparison testing. As far as I see, they are the same thing, jsut differnt engine and BTC electronics.
Agreed, I was waiting for the explanation about the distinction between the two four wheel drive systems. 🤷🏼♂️
@@JockeSelin As I see it, as a mechanical engineer of 30 years in the motor trade, there is no actual difference, it's people confuse the terms depending on vehicle class, you might be tempted to call something with selectable transfer case ratios as 4wd over one that doesn't as awd, but in essence it's not really enough. My example that confuses all that say 4wd has a locking centre diff; so I point them to the Sierra 4x4 and the Range Rover P38 (1995-2001) as the essential differnces in the two drive trains is the selectable transfer box ratios in the Range Rover. Other than that, they are very similar with viscous coupled front axle drive. looking into the sprinter system, the ages of vehicles run the same hardware, which is a similar design to the Borg Warner transfer case in the P38, so both are in fact the same designation, whichever one you choose. 🙂 Hope that helps or might add to the confusion.
@@overlandready Yeah the naming difference is arbitrary and falls apart when applied to any modern car. Land Cruiser 150/200/GX/etc.. are AWD with central lockers and 4L from stock. So is it AWD or 4WD? Also, the former gen Sprinter 4WD can technically be ridden like that all the time, even at high-way speeds for years, becoming pretty much AWD :- ).
I agree with you. If all the wheels are driven by the motor, and it has 4 wheels, then it’s 4x4 or 4WD or AWD. How the torque is distributed varies by design and amount. I’m mainly annoyed by that two very similar terms, 4WD and AWD was thrown around during the whole video without defining what they mean by them and why they needed to be distinguished from each other. Obviously this is more a reference to the drivetrain than the vehicle type, where I personally differentiate a bit between a 4x4 (Defender, G Wagen, Jeep, etc) and an AWD (Subaru Impreza/Legacy, Audi Quattro, etc).
And no, I’m not that bothered by it that’d I’d try to look it up, just left a bit of a sour taste, that’s all. I’ll survive. 😂
love anza borrego! thanks for the comparison :-)
I wish the AWD vans were loaded to make a true comparison. Not sure how they can be compared with fully-loaded vans. Entertaining video, though.
Looks like Chris trying to squeeze the last drop of viewers out of this video before posting next one. Or , maybe it's too hot for him outside.... Lol
Interesting.
I guess Chris has joined the Glamping crowd. No more jeep ventures. Only glamping in a fancy van
Thank you! This was really interesting to see the different behaviors.
Super amateur question: At about the 7:30 mark, how is this not frying a clutch somewhere?
Hi guys, i see those sprinters doing wonderfull things, I have a 516 CDI 2013 4x4, i went to the desert in tunisia and after 2 days only I have a join loosing grease, and problem to the rear suspension leafs, can you tell me what upgrades should I do to make the whole think more robust in order not to fear to under take some good full wheel driving?
Have a VW transporter 4motion with factory rear locker. The traction control with the locker engaged or not is very impressive . Also a fairly small light vehicle, so quite capable off road with a small lift/ bigger tyres.
I was waiting for this episode: Thanks Chris. I am between Land Cruiser 200, 2023 Nissan Armada and this Sprinter Van. Test drove a sprinter too. The AWD is not ideal compared to true range transfercase. At 9:18ish (slow motion) you can see the shockload (driver tire) going in the front drive lines when disengaging the power to front. These shockloads eventually destroys teeth/tooth in drivelines. Also 4 Cylinder to move that big van is also a concern. Keep your 21 Sprinter. Will look for a low mile 21-22 4x4 sprinter unmodified.
Great review. Are front lockers possible?
LOL hurting the earth with a small rut.
Help me out here, did I miss something? In the conclusion you said AWD stock model is better than the older 4wd, yet atleast to me it seems that 08:25 AWD hard test is significantly poorer performance than 10:55 4wd hard test. AWD digs a lot for traction and that can end up bad in soft terrain where as 4wd might move slower in general but doesn't seem to risk digging itself too deep into the terrain. If this test was on snow, the free spinning AWD dig would make it stuck for good I think.
Do you agree or did I miss something here?
My another question would be how is the fuel economy on tarmac between the two? Arguably most people will still use the car for long road trips on highways and such, so does the AWD bring a hit in fuel economy VS the 4wd on 2wheel mode? Ofcourse the newer enginge on AWD is more fuel economic, but how far can it come to mee the effeciency of the older Sprinter with 2 wheel drive mode selected?
awesome video! Getting an AWD in the future! basic question: does anybody know what color the "light tan" sprinter is? Pebble grey? stone grey? Whatever it is, I like!
That would be Pebble Grey!
@@Agileoffroad I Love it! I'm located in socal and once i get my van I will for sure be paying you guys a visit!
Been looking at Toyota 4 runner, if I could rely on a van that could track like the 4Runner that would be heaven sent
Great video, completely convinced me that Sprinters are NOT made to be off road and to drop that dream altogether.
Of course, they're not MADE from the factory to be off-road but this video shows you that they can be equipped to handle it well enough.
How much more does yours weigh than the others? I'd be interested to see how it would perform without the conversion weight
Ya literally makes no sense to test vans with different weight.
I own a fully outfitted Jeep gladiator that is a great one person rig for extreme over landing. I’m currently looking at vans to explore with the grandkids. I’m leaning towards the 170. What’s your thoughts on the extra length when my primary focus will dirt trails. Also any opinion on Sprinter verse Transit. Driving down to Baja I’m a little worried about parts and maintenance for the Sprinter down south but really prefer the Sprinter over the Transit. Thx
A 170 would make a great base for an adventure van with a bit more interior space. Obviously you lose a bit of agility and off road capability, but that may be the right trade off for you and your situation.
I’m sorry I have no experience with the Transits; I do love the 4x4 Sprinter!
Is the revel a true 4WD with a split 50/50 transfer case? I ask because it looked like around 7:25 the front wheels had purchase but were not assisting, noticed you racking the steering back and forth which could help if there was no traction to both wheels, but since neither were spinning free I'd guess that it's not a true 50/50 split 4WD system. That said I know nothing about the Mercedes system. Possibly the traction control system was hindering the 4WD output to the front wheels in this case.
Long therm. Always lockers if you do it a lot. Friction uses material and material cost
Airing up and down the tires makes a big difference
Huge difference!
We want orangie.
Yep I miss Orangie and the good ole days. Give sprinter back to Shannon!!
Life is all about change. Change is good.
Interesting comparison, AWD is slowly improving, wondering if it’ll someday be the norm?
look up the driveline of most Land Rovers, you'll find a fair few have viscous centre diff, no manual locking. In 1999 the P38 has TC to 62Mph, most people consider this a 4wd, in essence, it has no locking diffs, sowhat you referred to as Awd?
These van are everything you don’t want for off roading: extremely long wheelbase, top heavy, and unibody. I own a high roof converted 2wd Ford Transit and Jeep Rubicon JL. From 0 to 10, I would rate my Jeep a 10 for off road capability and a 1 for my van. Where do you think these van are on this scale?
I’d say right in the middle. Better than most expect. Most limiting factor is size.
100%. It's nuts to take these extreme off roading. But I like having the capability in a semi emergency situation.
That would give me pucker factor being off camber on those tall vans, that one "hop" , yikes..
I have arb Lockers on front and rear diff. That way when I get stuck, a bulldozer needs to be called to pull me out 🤷♂️
Ha!
Locker is the way to go
This might be apples to oranges, but how would a full time 4wd compare to AWD? Is full time 4wd just AWD with a low range?
I'm kinda disappointed Orangy wasn't used on that same trail to show what a full locked 4wd could do.
Most fulltime 4wd vehicles are just awd, then become 4wd when the center diff lock is actuated and still have 4 low