Jordan Peterson lectured about how the moment you have discovered a betrayal, even though you are in the exact same location, you no longer feel that you are because of how your reality gets divided into “before” and “after” the discovery or disclosure. He also noted that at that moment many of his clients described feeling like they were falling down a bottomless pit. Your world shatters. Everything you had thought was real is now completely false. It’s the shattering of the mind and the complete loss of feeling like you have any tangible grasp on reality. You question everything, even your own capabilities of understanding reality. It is truly a devastating experience.
umiluv Thank you for sharing Jordan’s lecture notes! He’s so brilliant! He also said, (loosely quoting him) “Because you’ve betrayed me, I now have to look at you differently.” Such a simple observation but spot on! I think it goes nicely with your comments.
It's been 20 years and I still remain totally insecure in my marriage. I do believe my husband loves me but he still hasn't done the one thing he stated 20 years ago that he would do to restore this marriage and I'm growing very resentful
Run away, my wife cheated about 15yrs ago, never seemed to heal and this past Friday while picking up our daughter from suicide watch I find out she's been screwing a guy at work. Wish I'd listened to my gut then. 25yrs marriage gone and I could have been with someone who cared about me.
He's ashamed and feels guilt and hasnt accepted and taken responsibility for what hes done...he himself has not healed..hes actually delaying the healing process for both of you..he has to talk about it to be able to start the healing process to move on
I have been told to finally get over the lie and betrayal because "I already said I am sorry" , "it was in the past" and "everything is better now and it will always be better". There is an expectation for me to be joyful and happy so our life can get to normal. As much as I do want to forget and forgive, the hurt is still there, and the emotional rollercoaster is still there, and panic attacks are still there and I have nobody to share my feeling with. Almost four months passed and I never felt so lonely.
I'm at 6 months and I'm still angry and grieving. I still have PTSD episodes. The anger just keeps coming. My husband was unfaithful for 40 years, starting 2 years after we married. Although we have determined he had the Madonna-Whore complex, porn addiction and inherited mental illness, I still can't accept it. I deserved so much better. My husband stopped the last affair 10 years ago, but I am just dealing with the truth at 69 years old. The life I thought I lived was a lie. How do you get over that?
It’s not that we like MJ more. It’s because she’s safe and comforting, and has a very pleasant voice. You, Samuel, give us lots of valuable information and we are thankful, however, occasionally you discuss how the betrayed has the right to feel the pain, has the right to ask questions, and right in the middle of your comments you have a visceral reaction to your own experiences and you can nudge it firmly with your words. As a betrayed, once in a while, as I listen, I feel as though I just got my hand slapped. What you do is very valuable and it’s good that we are able to see the “real” thing from both points of view. Thanks.
Victor Kroud awesome comment! I couldn't agree more. As a betrayed male, I appreciate Samuel, but relish the opportunity to be seemingly "emotionally explained" by MJ, as her innate ability to vocalize the mental and biological changes we feel from a the primitive space is phenomenal. I'll be making the trip to Austin to see her soon.
Over ten years ago. Yet I can remember everything about that fateful day. Where I was, what I was wearing, every detail about the other woman, every single detail.
I've had numerous discovery days since I first found out in February. I know he isn't fully disclosing, so feel the need to find my own answers. He doesn't seem to learn that each revelation just makes things worse. In his mind, it's OK to lie, because he's "protecting me". That is not acceptable. I've given him numerous opportunities to come clean about everything I've questioned.
You need a proper disclosure lead by a therapist. If you are planning on staying. If not just walk away. It’s better than being traumatized everyday. That is so damaging. I’m so sorry you are going thru this.
Mine stonewalls me, silent treatment, total indifference and meltsdown if confronted . The cherry on top is my recent chlamydia and gonorrhea infections, compliments of my devoted husband of 15 years. If they won't fix it, they're not into it.
I’ve been praying for this information and although I’ve felt I didn’t need permission to feel, I feel validated and encouraged to know that I’m not crazy. I’m grieving the 💔 thank you Mj so much!!! God bless you
Your videos series on infidelity has helped me so much to understand what I'm feeling and experiencing. This is something that I've never had to go through. I feel that I can recover easier understanding my emotions, the grieving process, the anger, the safety etc. has helped me immensely. Thank you thank you thank you.
I feel that MJ would make such a difference in my marriage. For myself, her expertise would bring such comfort and validation. I use the healing hope emails as best I can, but if MJ was my therapist, I think I'd have much more security in my own emotions. Alas..I'm too far away and not financially able. So these priceless videos are so very helpful.
Excellent explanation of forgiveness at the end of the video. I have been so confused as to why my feelings of forgiveness toward my husband have wavered so much. Thank you!
This is amazing on so many levels! It covers way more than the title implies. So thankful for people who not only "get it" but who can explain it to others and take the time to do so. Thank you Samuel and MJ!!!
This helped me not feel crazy so much i felt like my emotions where even confusing me and i just find more and more on a trickle style and i keep asking for the whole truth but i know he holds back
Thank you so much for making these videos. Words can not describe how amazing it is of you all for putting these all together for people…. It’s truly amazing. And truly appreciated
The unfaithful party says he's done with the affair but that his affair partner will always be his best friend regardless of how long they go without talking or seeing eachother. He says that the hardest part of our relationship is having to let go of this new found "best friend". They were not friends before the affair...there were multiple other women, but this one in particular he seems to hold on a pedestal regardless of how much he says he wants to move forward with me. My gut just won't rest.
My problem was always that every time I started to get over the last betrayal, he betrayed me again. Over and over. I kept telling him how can I heal if you keep ripping the scabs off my wounds, and making them bigger? I got stuck in the angry place when we were still together, and he used that to blame me for things that weren’t my fault. I wish he wanted to fix it, but he just won’t try and I have to accept that I have to move on by myself.
My husband cheated on me many, many times. We tried to mend the marriage, but it was impossible. We got separated and now he alienated my kids against me. He is relentless. I almost lost my mind! I formation like this is very helpful. At least I’m able to understand what happened and is happening to me. Thank you.
I’m very hurt because my husband left last year and 7 months later, I discovered through social media proof he’s been in an affair. I had that initial disclosure with proof, and then I was presented with proof that it had at least been going on since September 2019. My husband barely speaks to me and refuses to give me a full disclosure. I am grieving this entire marriage being shattered and the fact that I will most likely never get a full disclosure.
I’ve gotten stuck because every time I try to stay and wait and try to work through I feel more betrayed because he didn’t keep his word for me to to continue to commit my time and effort, then feeling betrayed because he is expressing in another way I am not worthy. I understand he had/has an addiction but I don’t want to continue to be a victim, I don’t want to have to endure more pain because he doesn’t even know how to not trigger me or at least support me in a way that slows the triggers or helps stop them from becoming a spiral.
Thank goodness for these videos. They have been and continue to be so helpful. Even though its been almost 6 months I hope I will get truthful disclosure, I doubt it though.
Hitting the acceptance part took me the better part of a year. It felt like a big turning point in my recovery. I still am haunted by the ghosts of reminders and hurts, but they are getting further away every day. Thank you, as always for the videos !
I had to keep finding the disclosures on my own. Never did they come without war, and honestly each time I dug and dug just expecting confirmation that I was not the one and we would somehow respectfully be done. I’ve never felt so low in my life giving someone so many chances to just outright be lied to on what he would do to rectify in some part by working towards what was required to get me out if this bad place, not including how much I was doing to try to endure it though it was so messy. He wanted to stay together yet unwilling to do the work, cannot handle my pain, communication is irreparable, I spiral because of how much betrayal on so many levels. I don’t think he will ever comprehend how and where in every area of my life I am disregulated. I would spiral when trying to ask about this or that, or because I saw there was no actual work to become a better partner and how to support me and make necessary change if he truly wanted me around. Then I learned to run when he responds with exasperated responses, stonewalling, and how much more pain he is in for “ being a bad guy” which I feel pushed us further apart. I guess I was just suppose to be able to sit quietly and be glad he stopped though I truly don’t know that because transparency truly isn’t there. I have gotten counseling and so much help but it is no help when the other person is just unwilling other than what he expects is good enough. Now I just feel like a total lunatic 3 years almost of non stop disclosures due to me feeling things off and his somewhat hints and haphazard posts with some of them in the background talking. I feel completely insane because I talk and talk and text and text and I truly just think it is at an end for the betterment of us both.
A year later is when he tells me more lies. sadly I knew he was lying only why a year later I find out. And he gets a upset when I do not believe him. How many disclosures do I need to have before I can not take it anymore.
D day has happened many times over 4-5 years. I was led to believe it was emoitonal then years later i got the truth of a sexual affair. Every D has been just has hard as the last. My mental health is at its lowest. I struggle to find enjoyment in anything
What's hard is when you can't remember everything because it was so long ago yet they want to know. He's known about the affair for over a decade but he is now dealing with it so for me to recall my conversations and all is hard and I only remember certain things but not everything. So if something comes up later it isn't that I just didn't want to say, I just didn't think about until then.
First disclosure in 2019 before our wedding. 2 children involved that I knew nothing about. I was doing the recovery work. Just yesterday I received another disclosure from a woman and he has a son by the same mother of his daughters. I’m done 😞😞😞😞
Just broke off a relationship with a man who had several affairs when he was married. I could never understand his behaviour except for wanting his cake and eating it …no empathy for spouse or affair partners. I found he would lie by omission to me in order to avoid confrontation or discussion….wanted to stay ‘friends’ with exes, etc. so am very much of the view that affairs reflect basic character traits
Thank you for talking about the anger on the betrayed's part. When he floods, he gets angry and withdraws for days, it hurts me but I've come to realize he needs it in order to heal and move forward. Is it possible for a betrayed to be stuck in each of these phases?
Thank you both for this very informative discussion that is very on topic with our situation now and in the past. I will be asking my spouse if he cares too watch this leater on tonight too give him more insight or education as too what goes on with me or what I go through. Staying tuned for part 2.
Defining infedality..emotional and financial ..social media, what happens when the betrayed after years of being abused realize that they themselves are now finding themselves confiding outside their marriage with female and male " friends" .. I think i should just go and get the divorce because I now see myself as becoming the same ugly thing my spouse is. I hate this life. I have done crisis counseling and in grasping for help cried out to friends and now i feel like the cheater. I also became a shamed wife shoved into the closet of secrecy because of the embarrassment and the blatant blame shifting. Raging to create fear..all makes me feel responsible for his choices and actions. Help! I want out! Toxic, toxic , toxic
Please get some trauma therapy before your acting out behaviors hurt you and others who are innocent. Infidelity really can turn you dark if you don’t face it and get help.
theres a big difference in confiding in someone of the opposite sex, and sexual intercourse with the opposite sex. theres a spectrum of “emotional affairs” a sexual relationship with someone other than your spouse is very direct. There is no such thing as justification for infidelity, regardless of circumstances. If you are unhappy and nothing has changed, all things exhausted, LEAVE get out, divorce
I do want to forgive so desperately but it was so much and so many times to forgive for not stopping, not meeting me in place for what he wanted, then finally just leaving because I had to tell him to go because it was becoming so toxic I didn’t even recognize myself. I realized if I love him and I can’t help myself then I have to let go because I couldn’t control my thoughts and anger and sadness and need for many types of reassurance. I feel unfortunately that we are past the point of no return and I hope to forgive but I know sadly I will live with this pain for a long time, even when I try to say it was all him, I still hurt for not being able to prevent, or even handle myself more gracefully or stopping it a long time ago.
I am enjoying learning so much from the majority of the videos I’ve seen from y’alls post. I have a question: do the unfaithful grieve like the betrayed?
we do. many of us do, but not all of us do. it's a process to get there, but when it does hit us it hits us hard and we have layer upon layer of it to work through.
It's been 7 months since I found out but I have been back with him for 5 month's and till this day I can't get over it. I'm dealing with it better but some day's I feel like he's not really here with me he just here for the kid's. How do you tell he's here for our relationship vs just not to hurt kid's. He did say to me he don't want to fail at the relationship. That makes me think he just don't want to be a failure
Where does wallowing in self pity fit into this grieving process as it applies to the unfaithful spouse grieving the loss of their attachment to the affair partner?
I’m 10 months post D day with a lot of anniversaries Dec-March. I received drip feeding and a lot of “I don’t remember” I have done EMDR, online boot camp, several books, hours of videos. Today I’m struggling with major anxiety and feeling there’s more, or he sugar coated things. He’s reading, doing counseling, transparent, pretty consistent... why am I a mess? I’m scared, I feel desperate to be ok 😔 I’ve watched the video about being stuck in the disclosure phase but I can’t get out. Please help if you can.
maybe it's a bad day....maybe you're triggered and having a tough time with something.....you should have some tools/exercises to self soothe right? get a good meal, a walk, talk to someone you trust.....breathing exercises.
what if there was no actual disclosure? no acceptance that they were having an emotional affair, total denial, partner being blamed for being jealous and controlling or paranoid when trying to fix the relationship problems. then the betrayer using those same things to blame the betrayed for causing the end of the relationship. with no disclosure or acceptance of what THEY actually did?
Nice to know that I am allowed to feel what I am feeling, like the anger. But it is just too bad that the cheater and the other woman do not understand and refuse to understand.
Seriously? The betrayed should show anger in a way that is in line with their values? What about the lack of values and morals in what was just done to them?
I refuse to lose my own integrity in the process. I’m working through the emotions, all of them, but if I loose my integrity by responding in a way that is inconsistent with my moral values (including anger), I’m just as guilty of wronging another person as I have been wronged. If I start to justify my responses against my moral code, then the other party has permission to justify what they’ve done as well. At the end of all of this, I want to get through recovery with no regrets when I look in the mirror and remember how I treated others in the process.
Do a batrayed person feel that pain life long after fixing the marriage and not giving the unfaithful partner divorce??please answer fast. I m the one one who has been unfaithful and want my partner to be out of this trauma..what to do to give him peace or let him to be less In pain? Please explain
if you want this marriage and your partner does too you can't divorce them, that would be ridding them of their choice to stay. but if you are both unhappy then a divorce may be underway
i don't believe there is a specific one, but trauma does require an expert's hand. perhaps it would be good to pursue some ETT or EMDR work which are forms of trauma care that a licensed professional can administer.
Very frustrating for both sides, but she nails it by boiling it down. The hurt partner wants security and safety the unfaithful partner wants acceptance and understanding yet neither one can see that in the beginning. It comes across all wrong and misunderstood 😢
I have a question; it's something I find very hard to answer when I am asked this by my husband (betrayed): why didn't you leave me instead of having an affair? As crazy as it sounds, I didn't want to lose him. I loved him and I didn't want my marriage to end. Do you have any insights on what others may answer to that question? Maybe it gives me more clues to going deeper finding my own reasons. Thank you!
it's very common to have an affair and still love your spouse. while there are tendencies and generalities about unfaithful spouses, every situation is different. sometimes, we don't know why we do what we do. we want love, acceptance and what we think or feel like would be helpful to our soul. but we don't consider the consequences and we don't stay aware of how it will affect our spouse at any rate. we are selfish and self absorbed, but not useless or worthless. it takes a process to understand why we do what we do and how we justify our actions. i'm sorry, there is no simple easy answer, but there is a process.
When I found out about his infidelity I asked him the same question: “why didn’t you separated with me and then go do your thing ?” Because I feel that he would have loved me and respected me more doing this to me without us being together rather than while we were together.The thought that he could do it while we were together makes me wonder if he loved me enough, did he care, was he thinking she’s so naive this is so easy, did he really love me?
He works with the gal at the same building. They made out, stopped & both agreed it was stupid what they were doing. I hate that they are still in the same office &he says that they don't effect like each other. It was a drunken mistake & she had pursued him while we had been separated.
Its all good exercise up until your minister spouse continues relentlessly..chats, porn, now looking up escort services and massage establishments for " legitimate, full body to body massage" . Im so sick of feeling crazy and being forgiving about this. Same thing over and over more than decade. Elders say no control, just prayer. Bull!! Oops guess im angry. No, he won't get divorce, would rather make me loose my mind. Your information is very good and i agree with most all of it. It is only good for those people..Couple's who reslly love and desire change and freedom from their strongholds and familial spirits and jezebel / ahab relationship. Thanks for good information for those on road to recovery and keep up the good work in Christ body. Sincerely, Ramona Williams
That was most of my experience too. My husband left me last year, but I started suspecting he was having an affair. I grieved through that the best I could, then 7 months after he left me, I was presented with social media proof that he’s with another woman. I mostly worked through acceptance and depression, but now, I am starting to get angry
What about when it has happened to you in different relationships? You start off trusting your person and then get betrayed but it happens in multiple different relationships and you start thinking well what’s wrong with me then?
there are so many layers my friend. i think you have to visit a professional and see what's going on in you. is it just choosing bad spouses or partners or is it something in you that desires that type of situation or is there more to it? i would find an expert and get help for you personally. we're all broken. none of us has arrived my friend.
Great videos, and really valuable content. I thank you for that. At the same time, i can't help myself noticing how almost everytime you are referring to to the betrayed partner as "she", "her", lady", "female". That , for someone in your position, is to me a terrible oversight. Yes, we fall into the cliche that men tend to cheat more than women, but i find difficult to believe that the opposite situation is just an exception. Actually...alas, i know that from experience (that's why i reached to these videos by the way). On an ethical perspective, one (whether a "he" or "she"), should not be perceiving the situation they are experiencing as awkward just because, you know, usually it's the other gender that tends to offend. Really that is counterproductive, which is something that one would not expect from such otherwise well prepared professionals that share such a great insight into the dynamics of cheating. I wish everyone who reads this will take my words with the right disposition of mind
this was a guest who came in. if you watch any number of my videos you'll see i reference, he or she so much so that it gets annoying to some and will also use they. i don't think you may have seen enough videos in terms of what pronouns i use in all my videos and this may have been an exception.
@@samshealingpodcast I really need to apologize on my first comment. What you say is absolutely right. In fact I want to say publicly that I have been watching tons of videos from the channel since then (just a few weeks into my D-Day), and the only thing i can say is that these videos, and the comprehensive approach of the AR team are the one thing that really helped me deal with the emotional storm and suffering i have suddenly found myself in. Man, I was so lonely and helpless back then...I guess It was anger and hurt talking rather than sense. But i was wrong nonetheless, and I would like to take this chance not only to apologize for my first comment, but also to thank you for the support and help you guys gave me all these months. To everyone out there desperately seeking help, he or she, I want to say that you will find it in this channel and the AR website. I can tell by experience, from an extremely wounded and clueless person back then that these videos have shaped my journey to recovery and are still an important part of it. I don't think i will ever thank you enough. Again, I am sorry for letting my anger speak
Hang in there Brendan. And if you're truly in a space where your wife refuses to accept responsibility for her choices, please be strong and steadfast in your will to face this issue head on. She may still be in a state of limerance and therefore numb to the pain she may be causing. If you can gather the strength and have the courage to DEMAND an answer for your evidence, you'll allow an open space for her to make her intentions clear. In other words... She needs to address what you've found respectfully, or you need to have the strength to do what's best for you.
I agree with David...the only way to move forward with your wife is for her to take responsibility for what she has done...otherwise there will be no healing or moving forward...
Life is an adventure through a Jungle. Yes, we are part of the animal kingdom. Life is not perfect. So we need to learn one way or the other. If not we do not survive.
I believe I struggle as the offender to allow my wife to Express her anger. Because anger and rage from her has been so much apart of our 26years of marriage. So, emasculating and demeaning anger does not go well with me. I think on the front side of my unfaithful behavior I didn't draw boundaries allowed myself to get hurt. I made some very wrong life changing decisions based upon the positive attention I was getting. But, now on this side of it all. I tolerate no anger from my spouse. So, this makes it difficult for both of us. No, way shape or form am I condoning or validating what I did.
Ernest Pena Jr. unfortunately by not allowing someone to express how they feel, anger or whatever it may be...is not allowing someone to be safe to be who they are with you. Anger is often a secondary emotion to things like fear, sadness, pain, grief ... people will often get angry when the primary emotions are invalidated. When someone isn’t heard, anger can arise. Listening, validating, responding non-defensively, help so much to dissipate anger... ‘Non-violent communication, A language of life’ by Marshall B Rosenberg, is a fantastic resource for every human, especially couples. If we all instituted the principles in that book, our lives would be better...relationships, the gamut from coworkers to intimate, would be vastly improved. Best of luck
I believe that you missed the part of her anger being emasculating and demeaning. I dont think any human should have to tolerate abusive verbal communication.
Ernest Pena Jr. I did hear that. Sorry I didn’t address that part. That must indeed feel terrible. I agree that no one should tolerate abuse in any way. What I have seen...is that women who are not heard, over and over...will unfortunately go to that realm. It’s not right, or healthy, but is often a big warning of deep resentment due to a long history of being hurt. I have also seen men that said their wife was “attacking” or disrespecting them and upon hearing both sides she is attempting to state needs..but unfortunately it comes across as accusations or criticisms and then defensiveness happens..and the communication further breaks down. I didn’t mean to miss what was so important to you and I hear it. I hope that you guys are able to find someone to help you connect and build a happy relationship, where you both feel heard, respected and loved.
@@ernestpenajr.6079 Your betrayal is worse than demeaning. Double standard and lack of humility on your part. Let her express her anger and then go to couples counseling together to work on the marriage.
Jordan Peterson lectured about how the moment you have discovered a betrayal, even though you are in the exact same location, you no longer feel that you are because of how your reality gets divided into “before” and “after” the discovery or disclosure.
He also noted that at that moment many of his clients described feeling like they were falling down a bottomless pit. Your world shatters. Everything you had thought was real is now completely false.
It’s the shattering of the mind and the complete loss of feeling like you have any tangible grasp on reality. You question everything, even your own capabilities of understanding reality. It is truly a devastating experience.
So true! I don't know who I am anymore. I don't really know whats real and whats not. I feel so lost all the time
umiluv so true!
umiluv Thank you for sharing Jordan’s lecture notes! He’s so brilliant!
He also said, (loosely quoting him) “Because you’ve betrayed me, I now have to look at you differently.”
Such a simple observation but spot on! I think it goes nicely with your comments.
Wow, this!!
Its been 28 years. The anger and pain ebbs and flows but it is always there. Some wounds never heal.
😪
Jack... Do you think it's better or worse staying together?
It's been 20 years and I still remain totally insecure in my marriage. I do believe my husband loves me but he still hasn't done the one thing he stated 20 years ago that he would do to restore this marriage and I'm growing very resentful
@@eventhere2788what did he say
Run away, my wife cheated about 15yrs ago, never seemed to heal and this past Friday while picking up our daughter from suicide watch I find out she's been screwing a guy at work. Wish I'd listened to my gut then. 25yrs marriage gone and I could have been with someone who cared about me.
What hurts me. Is he DOES NOT WANT TO TALK ABOUT IT. Wants me to forget it ever happened and move on. Ugh! No. I wont.
No way!!! That's impossible!
@@zldt yes. Wont talk at all.
He's ashamed and feels guilt and hasnt accepted and taken responsibility for what hes done...he himself has not healed..hes actually delaying the healing process for both of you..he has to talk about it to be able to start the healing process to move on
Glenda Talamantes Same here. He doesn’t understand that apologizing doesn’t just make it all go away and bring the trust back.
I do understand, am going through the exact same thing at this present moment. And it hurts because he doesn't want to talk.
I have been told to finally get over the lie and betrayal because "I already said I am sorry" , "it was in the past" and "everything is better now and it will always be better". There is an expectation for me to be joyful and happy so our life can get to normal. As much as I do want to forget and forgive, the hurt is still there, and the emotional rollercoaster is still there, and panic attacks are still there and I have nobody to share my feeling with. Almost four months passed and I never felt so lonely.
I get you. In the exact same situation and exact timeline...God help us
I'm at 6 months and I'm still angry and grieving. I still have PTSD episodes. The anger just keeps coming. My husband was unfaithful for 40 years, starting 2 years after we married. Although we have determined he had the Madonna-Whore complex, porn addiction and inherited mental illness, I still can't accept it. I deserved so much better. My husband stopped the last affair 10 years ago, but I am just dealing with the truth at 69 years old. The life I thought I lived was a lie. How do you get over that?
*hugs*
Im at 9mo almost 10. Im mourning the life that we both had. He is hurting too. I wish there was something to help this pass faster.
same here, I know exactly what you’re saying
It’s not that we like MJ more. It’s because she’s safe and comforting, and has a very pleasant voice. You, Samuel, give us lots of valuable information and we are thankful, however, occasionally you discuss how the betrayed has the right to feel the pain, has the right to ask questions, and right in the middle of your comments you have a visceral reaction to your own experiences and you can nudge it firmly with your words. As a betrayed, once in a while, as I listen, I feel as though I just got my hand slapped. What you do is very valuable and it’s good that we are able to see the “real” thing from both points of view. Thanks.
Victor Kroud awesome comment! I couldn't agree more. As a betrayed male, I appreciate Samuel, but relish the opportunity to be seemingly "emotionally explained" by MJ, as her innate ability to vocalize the mental and biological changes we feel from a the primitive space is phenomenal. I'll be making the trip to Austin to see her soon.
Over ten years ago. Yet I can remember everything about that fateful day. Where I was, what I was wearing, every detail about the other woman, every single detail.
I've had numerous discovery days since I first found out in February. I know he isn't fully disclosing, so feel the need to find my own answers. He doesn't seem to learn that each revelation just makes things worse. In his mind, it's OK to lie, because he's "protecting me". That is not acceptable. I've given him numerous opportunities to come clean about everything I've questioned.
I’m sorry you’re going through this. You’ve literally explained my situation too. So devastating
You need a proper disclosure lead by a therapist. If you are planning on staying. If not just walk away. It’s better than being traumatized everyday. That is so damaging. I’m so sorry you are going thru this.
Mine stonewalls me, silent treatment, total indifference and meltsdown if confronted . The cherry on top is my recent chlamydia and gonorrhea infections, compliments of my devoted husband of 15 years. If they won't fix it, they're not into it.
I'm so sorry. How devastating and humiliating. I hope you are safe now. 🙏
I am so so sorry.
I’ve been praying for this information and although I’ve felt I didn’t need permission to feel, I feel validated and encouraged to know that I’m not crazy. I’m grieving the 💔 thank you Mj so much!!! God bless you
Yes yes MJ is probably one of the safest people on our planet, I owe her much respect ♥️♥️
Your videos series on infidelity has helped me so much to understand what I'm feeling and experiencing. This is something that I've never had to go through. I feel that I can recover easier understanding my emotions, the grieving process, the anger, the safety etc. has helped me immensely. Thank you thank you thank you.
I feel that MJ would make such a difference in my marriage. For myself, her expertise would bring such comfort and validation.
I use the healing hope emails as best I can, but if MJ was my therapist, I think I'd have much more security in my own emotions.
Alas..I'm too far away and not financially able. So these priceless videos are so very helpful.
Excellent explanation of forgiveness at the end of the video. I have been so confused as to why my feelings of forgiveness toward my husband have wavered so much. Thank you!
This is amazing on so many levels! It covers way more than the title implies. So thankful for people who not only "get it" but who can explain it to others and take the time to do so. Thank you Samuel and MJ!!!
This helped me not feel crazy so much i felt like my emotions where even confusing me and i just find more and more on a trickle style and i keep asking for the whole truth but i know he holds back
Thank you so much for making these videos. Words can not describe how amazing it is of you all for putting these all together for people…. It’s truly amazing. And truly appreciated
The unfaithful party says he's done with the affair but that his affair partner will always be his best friend regardless of how long they go without talking or seeing eachother. He says that the hardest part of our relationship is having to let go of this new found "best friend". They were not friends before the affair...there were multiple other women, but this one in particular he seems to hold on a pedestal regardless of how much he says he wants to move forward with me. My gut just won't rest.
My problem was always that every time I started to get over the last betrayal, he betrayed me again. Over and over. I kept telling him how can I heal if you keep ripping the scabs off my wounds, and making them bigger? I got stuck in the angry place when we were still together, and he used that to blame me for things that weren’t my fault. I wish he wanted to fix it, but he just won’t try and I have to accept that I have to move on by myself.
My husband cheated on me many, many times. We tried to mend the marriage, but it was impossible. We got separated and now he alienated my kids against me. He is relentless. I almost lost my mind! I formation like this is very helpful. At least I’m able to understand what happened and is happening to me. Thank you.
I’m so sorry girl …. I hope it’s gotten better for you :(
I’m very hurt because my husband left last year and 7 months later, I discovered through social media proof he’s been in an affair. I had that initial disclosure with proof, and then I was presented with proof that it had at least been going on since September 2019. My husband barely speaks to me and refuses to give me a full disclosure. I am grieving this entire marriage being shattered and the fact that I will most likely never get a full disclosure.
I’ve gotten stuck because every time I try to stay and wait and try to work through I feel more betrayed because he didn’t keep his word for me to to continue to commit my time and effort, then feeling betrayed because he is expressing in another way I am not worthy. I understand he had/has an addiction but I don’t want to continue to be a victim, I don’t want to have to endure more pain because he doesn’t even know how to not trigger me or at least support me in a way that slows the triggers or helps stop them from becoming a spiral.
Thank goodness for these videos. They have been and continue to be so helpful. Even though its been almost 6 months I hope I will get truthful disclosure, I doubt it though.
Don't give up god is good
Hang in there!!!
Hitting the acceptance part took me the better part of a year. It felt like a big turning point in my recovery. I still am haunted by the ghosts of reminders and hurts, but they are getting further away every day. Thank you, as always for the videos !
you're very welcome my friend.
I had to keep finding the disclosures on my own. Never did they come without war, and honestly each time I dug and dug just expecting confirmation that I was not the one and we would somehow respectfully be done. I’ve never felt so low in my life giving someone so many chances to just outright be lied to on what he would do to rectify in some part by working towards what was required to get me out if this bad place, not including how much I was doing to try to endure it though it was so messy. He wanted to stay together yet unwilling to do the work, cannot handle my pain, communication is irreparable, I spiral because of how much betrayal on so many levels. I don’t think he will ever comprehend how and where in every area of my life I am disregulated. I would spiral when trying to ask about this or that, or because I saw there was no actual work to become a better partner and how to support me and make necessary change if he truly wanted me around. Then I learned to run when he responds with exasperated responses, stonewalling, and how much more pain he is in for “ being a bad guy” which I feel pushed us further apart. I guess I was just suppose to be able to sit quietly and be glad he stopped though I truly don’t know that because transparency truly isn’t there. I have gotten counseling and so much help but it is no help when the other person is just unwilling other than what he expects is good enough. Now I just feel like a total lunatic 3 years almost of non stop disclosures due to me feeling things off and his somewhat hints and haphazard posts with some of them in the background talking. I feel completely insane because I talk and talk and text and text and I truly just think it is at an end for the betterment of us both.
Run and don’t look back. Keep watching these videos and concentrate on your own healing. Get professional help if you can.
A year later is when he tells me more lies. sadly I knew he was lying only why a year later I find out. And he gets a upset when I do not believe him. How many disclosures do I need to have before I can not take it anymore.
I am in this same boat. Lifting us up in prayer
D day has happened many times over 4-5 years. I was led to believe it was emoitonal then years later i got the truth of a sexual affair. Every D has been just has hard as the last. My mental health is at its lowest. I struggle to find enjoyment in anything
I could have walked away from my wife, but decided to step towards her and watch God's redemptive love at work in her.
What's hard is when you can't remember everything because it was so long ago yet they want to know. He's known about the affair for over a decade but he is now dealing with it so for me to recall my conversations and all is hard and I only remember certain things but not everything. So if something comes up later it isn't that I just didn't want to say, I just didn't think about until then.
First disclosure in 2019 before our wedding. 2 children involved that I knew nothing about. I was doing the recovery work. Just yesterday I received another disclosure from a woman and he has a son by the same mother of his daughters. I’m done 😞😞😞😞
Just broke off a relationship with a man who had several affairs when he was married. I could never understand his behaviour except for wanting his cake and eating it …no empathy for spouse or affair partners. I found he would lie by omission to me in order to avoid confrontation or discussion….wanted to stay ‘friends’ with exes, etc. so am very much of the view that affairs reflect basic character traits
Thank you for talking about the anger on the betrayed's part. When he floods, he gets angry and withdraws for days, it hurts me but I've come to realize he needs it in order to heal and move forward. Is it possible for a betrayed to be stuck in each of these phases?
betrayeds can stuck in many phases. it's vital they feel safe and cared for and like the unfaithful is willing to do whatever it takes to heal .
She is such a great asset to your message
Thank you both for this very informative discussion that is very on topic with our situation now and in the past. I will be asking my spouse if he cares too watch this leater on tonight too give him more insight or education as too what goes on with me or what I go through. Staying tuned for part 2.
My bf said he would watch with me but has all kinds of things he's doing to avoid it. Now he's in the bath because he has debilitating BUG BITES! 🙄
Defining infedality..emotional and financial ..social media, what happens when the betrayed after years of being abused realize that they themselves are now finding themselves confiding outside their marriage with female and male
" friends" .. I think i should just go and get the divorce because I now see myself as becoming the same ugly thing my spouse is. I hate this life. I have done crisis counseling and in grasping for help cried out to friends and now i feel like the cheater. I also became a shamed wife shoved into the closet of secrecy because of the embarrassment and the blatant blame shifting. Raging to create fear..all makes me feel responsible for his choices and actions. Help! I want out! Toxic, toxic , toxic
Yes it is toxic and it sounds like deliverance is needed. And truma counseling. 🙏🙏🙏
Sounds very toxic. We cannot change others. Respect yourself. So sorry anyone has to go through what you are going through.
Please get some trauma therapy before your acting out behaviors hurt you and others who are innocent. Infidelity really can turn you dark if you don’t face it and get help.
theres a big difference in confiding in someone of the opposite sex, and sexual intercourse with the opposite sex. theres a spectrum of “emotional affairs” a sexual relationship with someone other than your spouse is very direct. There is no such thing as justification for infidelity, regardless of circumstances. If you are unhappy and nothing has changed, all things exhausted, LEAVE get out, divorce
I do want to forgive so desperately but it was so much and so many times to forgive for not stopping, not meeting me in place for what he wanted, then finally just leaving because I had to tell him to go because it was becoming so toxic I didn’t even recognize myself. I realized if I love him and I can’t help myself then I have to let go because I couldn’t control my thoughts and anger and sadness and need for many types of reassurance. I feel unfortunately that we are past the point of no return and I hope to forgive but I know sadly I will live with this pain for a long time, even when I try to say it was all him, I still hurt for not being able to prevent, or even handle myself more gracefully or stopping it a long time ago.
I am enjoying learning so much from the majority of the videos I’ve seen from y’alls post. I have a question: do the unfaithful grieve like the betrayed?
we do. many of us do, but not all of us do. it's a process to get there, but when it does hit us it hits us hard and we have layer upon layer of it to work through.
We sure do. And it’s a lot harder to find help if so.
@@CharlyInCharge1 Therapeutic help? Or do you mean empathy from family/friends/spouse?
It's been 7 months since I found out but I have been back with him for 5 month's and till this day I can't get over it. I'm dealing with it better but some day's I feel like he's not really here with me he just here for the kid's. How do you tell he's here for our relationship vs just not to hurt kid's. He did say to me he don't want to fail at the relationship. That makes me think he just don't want to be a failure
Thank you so much for this information
Where does wallowing in self pity fit into this grieving process as it applies to the unfaithful spouse grieving the loss of their attachment to the affair partner?
Thank you so much for this
Destruction and devastation are accurate
I’m 10 months post D day with a lot of anniversaries Dec-March. I received drip feeding and a lot of “I don’t remember” I have done EMDR, online boot camp, several books, hours of videos. Today I’m struggling with major anxiety and feeling there’s more, or he sugar coated things. He’s reading, doing counseling, transparent, pretty consistent... why am I a mess? I’m scared, I feel desperate to be ok 😔 I’ve watched the video about being stuck in the disclosure phase but I can’t get out. Please help if you can.
maybe it's a bad day....maybe you're triggered and having a tough time with something.....you should have some tools/exercises to self soothe right? get a good meal, a walk, talk to someone you trust.....breathing exercises.
Amazing video thank you
what if there was no actual disclosure? no acceptance that they were having an emotional affair, total denial, partner being blamed for being jealous and controlling or paranoid when trying to fix the relationship problems. then the betrayer using those same things to blame the betrayed for causing the end of the relationship. with no disclosure or acceptance of what THEY actually did?
those situations are tough. do you have proof of their affair and what they have done?
I'm in the very same boat, only I have proof of my husband's infidelity. But same reaction from him.
Nice to know that I am allowed to feel what I am feeling, like the anger. But it is just too bad that the cheater and the other woman do not understand and refuse to understand.
I feel so empty right now
Seriously? The betrayed should show anger in a way that is in line with their values? What about the lack of values and morals in what was just done to them?
I refuse to lose my own integrity in the process. I’m working through the emotions, all of them, but if I loose my integrity by responding in a way that is inconsistent with my moral values (including anger), I’m just as guilty of wronging another person as I have been wronged. If I start to justify my responses against my moral code, then the other party has permission to justify what they’ve done as well. At the end of all of this, I want to get through recovery with no regrets when I look in the mirror and remember how I treated others in the process.
Exactly Lori. Suddenly the betrayer wants to discuss appropriate behavior.
Do a batrayed person feel that pain life long after fixing the marriage and not giving the unfaithful partner divorce??please answer fast. I m the one one who has been unfaithful and want my partner to be out of this trauma..what to do to give him peace or let him to be less In pain? Please explain
if you want this marriage and your partner does too you can't divorce them, that would be ridding them of their choice to stay. but if you are both unhappy then a divorce may be underway
Is there a lecture like this about getting over trauma but for people who decided to leave the relationship??
i don't believe there is a specific one, but trauma does require an expert's hand. perhaps it would be good to pursue some ETT or EMDR work which are forms of trauma care that a licensed professional can administer.
Thank you MJ!
Very frustrating for both sides, but she nails it by boiling it down. The hurt partner wants security and safety the unfaithful partner wants acceptance and understanding yet neither one can see that in the beginning. It comes across all wrong and misunderstood 😢
I have a question; it's something I find very hard to answer when I am asked this by my husband (betrayed): why didn't you leave me instead of having an affair? As crazy as it sounds, I didn't want to lose him. I loved him and I didn't want my marriage to end. Do you have any insights on what others may answer to that question? Maybe it gives me more clues to going deeper finding my own reasons. Thank you!
it's very common to have an affair and still love your spouse. while there are tendencies and generalities about unfaithful spouses, every situation is different. sometimes, we don't know why we do what we do. we want love, acceptance and what we think or feel like would be helpful to our soul. but we don't consider the consequences and we don't stay aware of how it will affect our spouse at any rate. we are selfish and self absorbed, but not useless or worthless. it takes a process to understand why we do what we do and how we justify our actions. i'm sorry, there is no simple easy answer, but there is a process.
When I found out about his infidelity I asked him the same question: “why didn’t you separated with me and then go do your thing ?” Because I feel that he would have loved me and respected me more doing this to me without us being together rather than while we were together.The thought that he could do it while we were together makes me wonder if he loved me enough, did he care, was he thinking she’s so naive this is so easy, did he really love me?
@@polixenimanolopoulos2593 I feel exactly the same way.
I'm an unfaithful and I am ashamed that I did multiple disclosures. I should have been a man and said everything from the beginning. I'm a coward.
I am a wayward and I feel the same. Gave 3 disclosures and hate that I was too much of a coward to tell him the full truth from the get go.
He works with the gal at the same building. They made out, stopped & both agreed it was stupid what they were doing. I hate that they are still in the same office &he says that they don't effect like each other. It was a drunken mistake & she had pursued him while we had been separated.
It’s to late for me but thank you
ANGER ANGER ANGERRRRR!!!!! I HATEEVERYTHING RIGHT NOW.
Good! Live it. How are you now?
When dating, is there still hope? 😥 my partner and I have been on a break for 1 week so far.
AussieGirlRecords there is, but your partner needs to do most of the work of making the changes. Hang in there!
Wow so helpful
I end up to accept thay it just doesn't work for everybody. Once you take that path is like tossing a coin 50/50 percent chance to live or die
I never felt the denial because I had my suspicions. Is that normal? Do Affair Recovery has options outside the 50 states?
Its all good exercise up until your minister spouse continues relentlessly..chats, porn, now looking up escort services and massage establishments for
" legitimate, full body to body massage" . Im so sick of feeling crazy and being forgiving about this. Same thing over and over more than decade. Elders say no control, just prayer. Bull!! Oops guess im angry. No, he won't get divorce, would rather make me loose my mind. Your information is very good and i agree with most all of it. It is only good for those people..Couple's who reslly love and desire change and freedom from their strongholds and familial spirits and jezebel / ahab relationship.
Thanks for good information for those on road to recovery and keep up the good work in Christ body. Sincerely,
Ramona Williams
That was most of my experience too. My husband left me last year, but I started suspecting he was having an affair. I grieved through that the best I could, then 7 months after he left me, I was presented with social media proof that he’s with another woman. I mostly worked through acceptance and depression, but now, I am starting to get angry
Thank you
Rejection is hard, being in a sexless marriage for 38 years It's no wonder people step outside of the box.
What about when it has happened to you in different relationships? You start off trusting your person and then get betrayed but it happens in multiple different relationships and you start thinking well what’s wrong with me then?
there are so many layers my friend. i think you have to visit a professional and see what's going on in you. is it just choosing bad spouses or partners or is it something in you that desires that type of situation or is there more to it? i would find an expert and get help for you personally. we're all broken. none of us has arrived my friend.
Thank you ♡
Great videos, and really valuable content. I thank you for that. At the same time, i can't help myself noticing how almost everytime you are referring to to the betrayed partner as "she", "her", lady", "female". That , for someone in your position, is to me a terrible oversight. Yes, we fall into the cliche that men tend to cheat more than women, but i find difficult to believe that the opposite situation is just an exception. Actually...alas, i know that from experience (that's why i reached to these videos by the way). On an ethical perspective, one (whether a "he" or "she"), should not be perceiving the situation they are experiencing as awkward just because, you know, usually it's the other gender that tends to offend. Really that is counterproductive, which is something that one would not expect from such otherwise well prepared professionals that share such a great insight into the dynamics of cheating. I wish everyone who reads this will take my words with the right disposition of mind
this was a guest who came in. if you watch any number of my videos you'll see i reference, he or she so much so that it gets annoying to some and will also use they. i don't think you may have seen enough videos in terms of what pronouns i use in all my videos and this may have been an exception.
@@samshealingpodcast I really need to apologize on my first comment. What you say is absolutely right. In fact I want to say publicly that I have been watching tons of videos from the channel since then (just a few weeks into my D-Day), and the only thing i can say is that these videos, and the comprehensive approach of the AR team are the one thing that really helped me deal with the emotional storm and suffering i have suddenly found myself in. Man, I was so lonely and helpless back then...I guess It was anger and hurt talking rather than sense. But i was wrong nonetheless, and I would like to take this chance not only to apologize for my first comment, but also to thank you for the support and help you guys gave me all these months. To everyone out there desperately seeking help, he or she, I want to say that you will find it in this channel and the AR website. I can tell by experience, from an extremely wounded and clueless person back then that these videos have shaped my journey to recovery and are still an important part of it. I don't think i will ever thank you enough. Again, I am sorry for letting my anger speak
My wife won’t even give me any Disclosures becuase she thinks she did nothing wrong but I have proof of affair.. 😪
Hang in there Brendan. And if you're truly in a space where your wife refuses to accept responsibility for her choices, please be strong and steadfast in your will to face this issue head on. She may still be in a state of limerance and therefore numb to the pain she may be causing. If you can gather the strength and have the courage to DEMAND an answer for your evidence, you'll allow an open space for her to make her intentions clear.
In other words... She needs to address what you've found respectfully, or you need to have the strength to do what's best for you.
I agree with David...the only way to move forward with your wife is for her to take responsibility for what she has done...otherwise there will be no healing or moving forward...
Life is an adventure through a Jungle. Yes, we are part of the animal kingdom. Life is not perfect. So we need to learn one way or the other. If not we do not survive.
I believe I struggle as the offender to allow my wife to Express her anger. Because anger and rage from her has been so much apart of our 26years of marriage. So, emasculating and demeaning anger does not go well with me. I think on the front side of my unfaithful behavior I didn't draw boundaries allowed myself to get hurt. I made some very wrong life changing decisions based upon the positive attention I was getting. But, now on this side of it all. I tolerate no anger from my spouse. So, this makes it difficult for both of us. No, way shape or form am I condoning or validating what I did.
Ernest Pena Jr. unfortunately by not allowing someone to express how they feel, anger or whatever it may be...is not allowing someone to be safe to be who they are with you.
Anger is often a secondary emotion to things like fear, sadness, pain, grief ... people will often get angry when the primary emotions are invalidated. When someone isn’t heard, anger can arise.
Listening, validating, responding non-defensively, help so much to dissipate anger... ‘Non-violent communication, A language of life’ by Marshall B Rosenberg, is a fantastic resource for every human, especially couples. If we all instituted the principles in that book, our lives would be better...relationships, the gamut from coworkers to intimate, would be vastly improved.
Best of luck
I believe that you missed the part of her anger being emasculating and demeaning.
I dont think any human should have to tolerate abusive verbal communication.
Ernest Pena Jr. I did hear that. Sorry I didn’t address that part.
That must indeed feel terrible. I agree that no one should tolerate abuse in any way.
What I have seen...is that women who are not heard, over and over...will unfortunately go to that realm. It’s not right, or healthy, but is often a big warning of deep resentment due to a long history of being hurt.
I have also seen men that said their wife was “attacking” or disrespecting them and upon hearing both sides she is attempting to state needs..but unfortunately it comes across as accusations or criticisms and then defensiveness happens..and the communication further breaks down.
I didn’t mean to miss what was so important to you and I hear it.
I hope that you guys are able to find someone to help you connect and build a happy relationship, where you both feel heard, respected and loved.
@@ernestpenajr.6079 Your betrayal is worse than demeaning. Double standard and lack of humility on your part. Let her express her anger and then go to couples counseling together to work on the marriage.