That's absolutely new aspect of revival of churches. I never consider this although thought about reasons of revival. Thank you brother for another piece of Restoration puzzle 😊! You're doing a great job! From Russia with love!
So I am not sold on the idea that it was a business deal that caused the conflict. I know that I’m looking at this from a 2025 worldview but I do work with masters professionally. It’s very common for ministers to build relationships with each other. However, we can all agree in this case. They had some sort of relationship that went bad. What that was about we will probably never know. Just from my experience, it seems that it happens today because ministers can be very very very opinionated. There’s actually a joke that when you have three Baptist ministers in a room, you actually have eight opinions. I wouldn’t be shocked if it turned out that each minister wanted the things to go their own way And their opinions got in each other‘s ways that they lost sight of what was really important. There’s also a good chance that the leaders were very narcissistic and we’re fighting each other and manipulating each other and their congregations. The behavior does seem to fit narcissistic personalities. Just my opinion.
In verse 20 he says that he was told other things that he was permitted to reveal. Do we know what this was or is it similar to what was revealed to Nephi in his vision of our day? I really appreciate your commentary.
Which account? It's been altered so many times over the years. As members we've been told the restoration and existence of the church all hinges on the first vision but which account is correct? Given the religious fervor that was occuring in the early 1800s it's easily to understand the likelihood of many being misled. Including Joseph Smith and his desire to come into alignment with traditional Christianity and its teachings and values.
Ever have an experience in life and you retell it several times; maybe to a friend or two and then to your Mother? You may find that you use different phrases or leave some things out. It doesn’t change the facts. Joseph saw God the father and His son, Jesus Christ.
You don't sacrifice your whole life and die for something that you are not positive of. Joseph declares that he knew that God knew what Joseph had seen and that he could not deny it. Joseph's First Vision written accounts were directed to the general public and geared to a different specific audience each time. The accounts Joseph Smith gave to people privately have even more detail emphasizing different things. You should check out the podcasts like Talking Scripture and Follow Him, that have a lot of great detail. The answer to questions in Church History is more Church History, make sure it's from real sources, not just critics.
@@victoriaorme1564 I agree the telling of the accounts could be different, but was the original account, the unverified experience accurate unto itself. Keeping an open mind to other possibilities of the actual experience and not relying on "edited" materials the church has published over the years brings into question the accuracy of the whole event?
Amen. What a great presentation. Thanks Brother!
That is an amazing testimony!
Once again this was awesome to hear.
Always so good!
Showing to my class 16 to 18yros Saddlerock ward Wenatchee, WA. Thank you
That's absolutely new aspect of revival of churches. I never consider this although thought about reasons of revival. Thank you brother for another piece of Restoration puzzle 😊! You're doing a great job! From Russia with love!
So good! Thanks always!
Thank you so much I put my self in his shoes of Joseph I do believe hem.
Amen.
Thank you Tom!!
So I am not sold on the idea that it was a business deal that caused the conflict. I know that I’m looking at this from a 2025 worldview but I do work with masters professionally. It’s very common for ministers to build relationships with each other. However, we can all agree in this case. They had some sort of relationship that went bad. What that was about we will probably never know.
Just from my experience, it seems that it happens today because ministers can be very very very opinionated. There’s actually a joke that when you have three Baptist ministers in a room, you actually have eight opinions. I wouldn’t be shocked if it turned out that each minister wanted the things to go their own way And their opinions got in each other‘s ways that they lost sight of what was really important. There’s also a good chance that the leaders were very narcissistic and we’re fighting each other and manipulating each other and their congregations. The behavior does seem to fit narcissistic personalities. Just my opinion.
In verse 20 he says that he was told other things that he was permitted to reveal. Do we know what this was or is it similar to what was revealed to Nephi in his vision of our day?
I really appreciate your commentary.
Good question
Which account? It's been altered so many times over the years. As members we've been told the restoration and existence of the church all hinges on the first vision but which account is correct? Given the religious fervor that was occuring in the early 1800s it's easily to understand the likelihood of many being misled. Including Joseph Smith and his desire to come into alignment with traditional Christianity and its teachings and values.
Rhetorical question
Ever have an experience in life and you retell it several times; maybe to a friend or two and then to your Mother?
You may find that you use different phrases or leave some things out. It doesn’t change the facts.
Joseph saw God the father and His son, Jesus Christ.
You don't sacrifice your whole life and die for something that you are not positive of. Joseph declares that he knew that God knew what Joseph had seen and that he could not deny it. Joseph's First Vision written accounts were directed to the general public and geared to a different specific audience each time. The accounts Joseph Smith gave to people privately have even more detail emphasizing different things. You should check out the podcasts like Talking Scripture and Follow Him, that have a lot of great detail. The answer to questions in Church History is more Church History, make sure it's from real sources, not just critics.
@@victoriaorme1564 I agree the telling of the accounts could be different, but was the original account, the unverified experience accurate unto itself. Keeping an open mind to other possibilities of the actual experience and not relying on "edited" materials the church has published over the years brings into question the accuracy of the whole event?
They are all correct.
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