Tom...took your advice to catch up on all of the other great videos while you were all away at BGG Con. Glad I did! As someone that is making the transition over to board games (newbie here), all of the contributors to the Dice Tower have made it much easier through advice, game reviews, and of course, the comic relief. One issue I'm finding is reading the comments. Although there are many great questions and positive comments (which I enjoy reading), I find it hard to read comments about "leaves during transitions" or a full psychological analysis of Zee, Sam, Tom, or other contributors. Fortunately, I can find a positive out of all of the negatives in comments. I now know who to avoid and who to add to my gaming table. Keep up the great work and enjoyable vids...hope to meet you all at a Con someday!
Rare Dice Tower video where I felt Tom was not at his best. I felt that every time Sam or Zee wasn't crazy about something, Tom was quick to say they were wrong and was an apologist for the game. I expect those types of dismissive exchanges on the BGG forums, not on Miami Dice.
William Smith I did notice that, but I'm okay with that happening here simply because how much Tom has been hyping up this game in prior videos. The fact that he actually let the other two finish what they were saying without jumping in and screaming was about as much restraint as I could expect knowing Tom's feelings on the game.
I'll stop commenting on individual comments but I find it interesting that folks are ragging on Tom for loving the game while everyone else was lukewarm on it. As it turns out he was probably right in the end as Sam calls it his favorite game of all time right now, and Zee put it on an essential list.
I love how these guys are nice about their reviews but at the same can be honest and destroy aspects of it but still like the game. Old School Honesty; honest, brutal, truthful and to the point.
First off, not a fan of the leaf fades. They really were distracting. I agree with the comments that it felt like Tom was not going to let any negativity in this review. Why have Zee and Sam in there if they can't offer their opinions? Especially when it seems that they aren't all starry eyed about the latest and greatest. I haven't seen this much hype since Arcadia Quest, another CMON/Eric Lang product. Im not saying the love isn't genuine. But these games should not be immune from negative comments from all hosts. You are much better than that and I have a ton of respect and gratitude for what the DT does for the hobby. Sam and Zee are a part of that too. Please let them continue to do the voodoo that they do so well! :)
Ray Myers I don't really understand why so many comments agains Tom's love for Eric's games have appeared. You might be right about the amount of hype for Arcadia Quest - it was strange for me then and I was doubtful after going only through the rules. But then I've played it about a month ago and I fell in love with it and praise it since then. I don't know if everybody will love it (probably not) but how can I - I can only say it is great for me. Objectively I can say that it has great design elements and it is gorgeous and subjectively I just love it. I don't know how Tom could do anything but that for Arcadia, Dice Masters (even though I'm not in love with this one) and now Blood Rage - he gives his objective opinion sprinkled with his love for the games which he is excited for. I wouldn't discourage him from doing this, but rather encourage viewers to take all the opinions of the reviewers more cautiously - they are always subjective in some way - the best you can do is to learn if the reviewer has similar taste to your's. One last thing - You say that the game (all games) should not be immune from negative comments. But they are not - the exact reason why this discussion is possible is that those comments were in the video and got to you through Sam and Zee. Nobody stopped them from publication, there was no censorship - it was only Tom's opinion and why shouldn't he say that he disagrees. You could say that it seemed as he did not allow for others to have different opinion - yeah, and Sam punches Zee a lot, they clearly don't like each other. Tom's opinion isn't any more important than Sam's or Zee's - thay are just their opinions and you should judge which opinion is more important for you (which reviewer's taste is more similar to your taste). When we see them debate or agrue, it is only beneficial to us viewers, we get more arguments and can decide which are closer to our own. Sorry for the prolonged response (and perhaps a bit too preachy tone) but I have been surprised by so many negative comments on Tom's love for the game that none of use have even played yet. Your comment was just one of the comments I've read when I decided to respond - I have nothing agains You, just wanted give Tom some support.
Paweł Stelmach I only mention Arcadia Quest because his connection with this same designer and publisher. I love for Tom to have his own opinion and to express it. My main beef was that Tom debates both Zee and Sam's opinions to a new level. He's done that before, but this time: he was visible irritated that ANY negative thing was being said. Far more than simple disagreement. It's like"im the boss" a little bit
Paweł Stelmach And I just want to be clear, I'm not trying to troll. I just value multiple opinions and don't want that to go away. It's a definitive strength of The Dice Tower for multiple honest opinions.
Ray Myers Of course, I didn't perceive it as trolling. I don't even want to persuade You to agree with me. I just wanted give some balance in the comments to opinions that I perceived as a bit negative and that started to appear in greater numbers without any response from those who think otherwise.
Interesting factoid, this game's art was made by Adrian Smith, one of the best living illustrators alive, he's worked on Warhammer, 7 Sins, Diablo among other horror and fantasy games. The sculpts of these miniatures are based off of his designs, so yeah, you like the miniatures, look Adrian Smith up and give a like to his art.
Is it just me or was Tom a bit .. harsh (I don't know if that's the best word) on Sam and Zee during some of the exchanges ... more than usual :) I'm not saying he was mean or anything but at times it seemed a bit like you wanted to go "Dude ... chill." :)
He is harsh with all his people. I stopped listening to the podcast because of this, it was painful hearing him and how nervous his people were of him.
I was doing drafting back in college back in 1999 with Magic Gathering especially in seal deck competition. We all sat around a table opened up packs at same time take a card out pass the stack to next player. Also I think 7 wonders does that but I don't know when that was released.
Yeah, Tom's point about not having to put the minis together, is a great point. Is the expense that much greater to cast a mold in 1 pc...or ship it in 1 pc? Shadows of Brimstone would have been an easy sell for me if I didn't have to assemble the minis, some of which were a nightmare.
Same here. I like miniatures but won't buy a game where I'd have to put them together myself. I'm terrible with such things and would also wonder how the heck I could get it back in the box. If it fits assembled in the box, it should have come assembled anyways.
Games Workshop miniatures can be put together because you can customize your army, giving your space marines different types of guns or attachments. Putting them in different poses, arm up in one, arm down in the other. In miniature wargaming, hobbyists will often cut apart one-piece minis just to re-pose them and make their army unique, because building the army is often seen to be as much fun as playing the game. And if you paint your miniatures, odds are you'll be painting more than playing anyway.
It's a lot of work though and in that case the single game would pretty much be an entire hobby on it's own and painting and all that would be part of it. Personally I'd rather not paint at all. If I'd be able to find someone near me who might paint my board game miniatures for me I'd go for that, assuming the price is reasonable.
I love that Tom - called Blood Rage a sort of a remake of Midgard, I'm aware that there is minis and another level/upgrade on Blood Rage than the "older version". I own Midgard and have backed Blood Rage (waiting impatiently for the package) - I asked both via Facebook and through the KS - for a comment on "remake" - but only gor vague answers. - So I'm very happy that Tom views it the same way.
Morten Mejnholt It's sort of a spiritual successor in many ways, but Eric Lang himself has stated that it's not truly a remake. It honestly combines elements of Midgard with another of his games, Chaos in The Old World. Eric loved Midgard. He told me that it was one of his absolute favourite designs, but he made the personal mistake of leaving the component design to some friends over more professional designers, which led to a disappointing appearance of the game, which as a result potentially led to it being overlooked by many. Midgard is the first designer game I bought, and I love it, even though I cannot get it to the table anymore. I hate that I couldn't afford to back this when it was running.
Sam and Zee seem conflicted with their reviews of this. It felt like they were trying to keep Tom in check with his review. Tom obviously loves it, or is at least proclaiming to. It felt like Sam and Zee liked it, but made negative comments to ring down the hype. Or maybe they didntreally like it, but didnt want to let Tom down? I dunno, this review just felt uncomfortable. There has been a lot of good feedback on Blood Rage around the internet, and I'm excited for it but trying to keep my hopes in check. Tom also loves Kaosball (an Eric Lang and CMON game), which I rank as one of the worst 3-5 games I have ever played.
snowren24 No, I liked it plenty, game play-wise...and the minis are awesome. My only real nit-pick is that the player boards are cheapish, and the cards are a bit small and also on the cheapish side. I guess when you have minis this good in board games, you have to cut costs elsewhere to keep the price point manageable.
Sam Healey cool, that seems to be the way CMON does things, awesome minis and just ok player boards and cards. As a backer I'm glad to hear you liked the gameplay as I tend to side with you more than Tom on game reviews.
At first, this game looked like it wouldn't be for me. I'm generally not very interested in combat/battle/war, etc. themes in general. And the worst of those is dice roll and see who gets the highest value and they win the battle, or games that reach some kind of equilibrium and can go on forever Risk. Even with asymmetric powerups of additional dice or whatever, there's nothing I find more boring than that. But this game hardly even seems like a combat game-- the fact that dying in the battles can get you points as well as winning, and the drafting and asymmetric powers makes it seem pretty neat-- and after watching the playthrough, it looks like a really fun game. It's going on my wish list. At the same time, Cosmic Encounter hasn't really appealed to me, but this one certainly does. I really wish this game was around decades ago when Risk was all the "rage" in my game group-- I always thought Risk sucked for the most part and would go on forever. Blood Rage here seems to solve everything I didn't like about Risk and then some, yet still retain a "combat" theme.
The only thing that interests me in this is the mechanism of getting more points losing in battles or just dying. Though i wonder if it is not the same as dumb reverse "deduction" like in Tobago or similar games. When you are not deducting where the treasure is, but it just ends up in some place depending on how cards are drawn, etc. So i would have to see a playthrough or play this to see if it is not just a reverse of "winner gets more" to "loser gets more" or is it actually that clever, that you can get very swinging points by choosing different strategy in one battle (dying, losing, completing some quest, winning) and that by that all participating players can get some what equal amount of points. More interesting is how can you interfere with strategies of other players. Say you go to battle to get a lot of points winning it, so you play cards increasing your power, but then you see another player moves into battle and you know he is getting lot of points by losing. So how can you stop him from doing that? Or you just don't care and go for your goals? This feels a bit of solitaire then. When all the players don't fight to win and everyone has his own goals in the battle. Then it does feel like euro, when all are just maximizing points.
It's been a long time since I was really truly excited for an upcoming game. Blood Rage looks like a perfect storm of design. It has everything I'm looking for in this kind of game. Eric Lang has said it's his best 'dudes on a map' game and I believe him. Can't wait for my KS version to arrive!
Can´t wait to get mine. This game looks so good. Eric Lang really hit the head of the Scandinavian look. The minis are a little bit to American but no big deal.
I haven't played Cosmic Encounter so I don't know how well this game compares to it. However Chaos in the Old World is one of my favorite board games and I saw a few things here that reminded me of that game like the point system across the edge of the board, the land destruction and board control theme. Instead of players choosing unique demon lords at the beggining of the game who have different play styles here your play style is based on the cards you pick on the drafts. Since there are several drafts in the game I guess that gives more flexibility for players to change their strategy mid game than in Chaos. Anyone here has played both games? I'm trying to figure out whether this game is a good fit for players who enjoy Chaos in the Old World or if they are similar enough not to warrant a purchase of both.
Does this game look like it will have expansions? Is this the type of game that you might get tired of after several plays? Helpful to hear your thoughts on those questions, really enjoyed hearing your thoughts on this game I hope to get a chance to play it.
E Bur There are some expansions already coming, they were unlocked in the KS and they add things like a 5th player and the mystics. There's also a gods of Asgard expansion but I'm not sure what that adds.
Mark Tresidder The gods, if i recall in the KS post, add one random god out of the seven (thor, Odin, loki, heimdall, ect...) onto the board that grants a specific bonus tied to that god if you are in the same place as the god mini is in
Shamans is also an expansion. New set of dudes that have a little more power than typical warriors or leaders ie they can enter a full province and kill people to take their place or they won't be destroyed if they lose. Neither this or the Gods expansion seem to change the game all that much, but I view it as a good thing to be honest. Expansions for most games don't see play time for new players, bc of special nuances that get lost when learning a game for the first time. I would feel comfortable busting these out right away.
Do we know if the minis look extra-special-good because this is a pre-production copy of the game? I mean, the game isn't in production yet, according the the KS project. So I'm wondering if the minis in Tom's box will be identical to those in the production copies. These could be masters or resin prototypes?
It almost seemed like Zee and Sam were blasting the game at first on purpose just to mess with Tom lol. I think they have come around to love the game.
I had the same question a few months ago. haven't gotten cry havoc yet but still want to. got blood rage + 5th expansion (all you really need) blood rage and Scythe (with its expansion) are our 2 top games we play over and over.
My 12-year old son and I have played both a few times now and we rate Blood Rage quite a bit higher at this point. Cry Havoc is a great game, don't get me wrong, but Blood Rage just works better for us.
I find it laughable that Tom thinks that Games Workshop could learn from CMON. These are great BOARDGAME minis, maybe the best, but they won't beat the hard plastic minis you assemble yourself that GW has done in the last two years.
Zeetro yep agree totally. Studio McVey did the Blood Rage minis, Mike McVey is an ex-GW employee. Anyway I'm happy to see all 3 guys rated the game well.
I'm guessing Tom hasn't seen a GW mini since the 90's if he thinks these look better. These minis aren't even close to Malifaux and Infinity, let alone GW's current line ups for 40k and Fantasy. They're fantastic for a boardgame, but are nowhere near tabletop miniature quality.
Ha ha, "if you like Cosmic Encounter, you'll like this". Oh, Tom. There's so many more modern, applicable comparisons that could have been made like Chaos in the Old World and Kemet. CitOW is even another Eric Lang game! "If you liked the Ford Model T, you'll like the 2018 Honda Civic!"
What feels modern about it? As in, what does it still do as good or better than modern games that have yet to surpass it? Dune still feels modern because you could debate that zero or very few games have yet to replicate its diplomatic backstabbing and totally different play style asymmetrical factions grounded in a solid strategy game. Rising Sun and Twilight Imperium are sort of close but still don't reach the same level of asymmetry and diplomatic options. Agricola doesn't feel modern because at least half a dozen worker placement games have surpassed it at this point. There's no reason to ever go back to Chaos in the Old World because better games like Kemet, Cyclades, Blood Rage, and Rising Sun have left it in the dust. Cosmic to me always felt like some dopey Steve Jackson game that you and your buddies played in the 80s because it was silly and it was your only option for boardgames that weren't roll & move or monsterous hex wargames. Looking at it from a modern design perspective, it feels like Mario Party where it's just constant randomness until someone wins. There's almost zero thought in balancing the races, and if an observer looked at everyone's cards, he could probably predict the winner before the game even starts. That's not even getting into the ridiculous moons expansion. Can we honestly say that if Cosmic came out today, everyone's reaction wouldn't be "was this playtested at all?" I'd put it in the same category as Nuclear War: The Card Game, a silly game you laughed at when you were younger from a different era when it stood out, but you realize now it doesn't hold up at all as a game.
Do you feel the retail version is noticeably lacking due to the "missing" KS exclusives? I just cant bring myself to buy a game about Ragnarok that doesnt include Fenrir
If you look at all the exclusives, they are cool but it seems you would be at a disadvantage if that's all you drafted. Saying that, I doubt people would see the SG monsters being on the table as often as we would like. Don't think you're missing out on much w the retail box although I feel the same way. Hard to know you missed out on some great free stuff.
Different ways of winning. Pretty cool. I was waiting for this review eagerly. Vikings I really like very much. Awesome review guys. Definately one I will BUY! :D
I have the feeling you guys should Re-Review this game ... this review was just awefull to watch. Nobody seemed to be interested to do a review of this game that day
its worths the money for Blood Rage, if i already have kemet at home. Because i saw the rules and maybe reminds me Kemet. Its similar, its worths to have all the two games?
Steve Gale Nope haven't played it but at lot of people I talk to think it's just mini heavy with hardly any game to it. I tried to tell them differently just from reading the rules. It's nice to see it was good shout backing the game, since after all it's Eric Lang.
Mark Tresidder I don't really see the big deal about Eric Lang that you and Tom are making of him (he peaked with Chaos in the Old World IMO), but I guess I'll wait and see what the Secret Cabal will to say about it. It's a definite maybe.
Dice Masters and XCom I've played. Dice Masters is pretty facile, but it's okay. I like XCom, since it fills the niche of a three-player co-op, but I know many in my groups have played it once and been turned off.
Michael Smith The only one of those I liked was Arcadia Quest (still wouldn't even make my top 20). I concur with Steve Gale's opinion that he peaked with Chaos in the Old World. That game is easily my favorite in the area control genre.
"Games Workshop can take lessons from these guys." - Compare them to the minis in WarhammerQuest Silver Tower. I love CMON, but Tom sure hasn't seen any GW minis in a while.
So... this seems like a substitute for Chaos in the Old World if you are not a Warhammer fanboy? (I did not back it because I have Cthulhu Wars to fill that niche.)
This game definitely has some broken parts to it: I played a game this weekend where me and the two other players had a battle in Yggdrasil (center province). Since it was getting near the end of the age, we went all in (sent all troops to the center for rights to pillage). I had initiated the pillage, but my friend ended up winning the battle, so on his next turn of the round he pillaged it for the grand reward. He had previously upgraded his clan with the "spend two rage to re-pillage a province" and so on his next turn he did it again. The round ends, and only surviving clan members stay on the board (save for those destroyed in Ragnrok) so he started the round IN Yggdrasil. He became the first player in the subsequent round, and so what does he do but pillage it AGAIN, without anybody to challenge him! Then he used his next turn to pillage it AGAIN (spending two rage), and since me and the other friend had only been able to invade once before that (with one character each), there was really nothing we could do to stop him (keep in mind he still had his whole army in there). Before I knew what was happening his stats were maxed out (giving him the +30 Glory x3 for the endgame bonus) while I had only managed, up until then, to upgrade my rage and horns ONCE. I enjoy this game, and the miniatures are great, but I really don't feel like it was play-tested thoroughly enough.
You played it wrong. It’s not two rage for repillage, it’s two rage to commit to a pillage after already done an action. You don’t get the reward twice.
I like very much Tom´s reviews, but this one is strange. Telling things (reasoned) about why they don´t like a game it doesn´t mean that the game is bad, are only honest opinions and points of view. This it makes the video objetive and useful. Probably (I still don´t know) "Blood Rage" is a really good game, but I feel like Tom tried to make a sale.
Sam is right here. I do like Cosmic Encounter but I am not too keen on Blood Rage. I mean, I like Blood Rage. But I think Tom's conclusion is a bit off here.
Read the rules, played the first round, and thought it was pretty awesome. Then I got to see much of the game interacted....absolutely despised this game. Only the second game (first was Monopoly) in 30 years I had to get up and leave in the middle of out of disgust. Suffers HORRIBLY from a run away leader issue.
I have played this game easily 20 times. This game has a laundry list of mechanisms designed to prevent a runaway leader. The only way this could have happened is if there was a large gap in player skill. 1. When card drafting you can hate draft other players from getting what they want/need. 2. You can end the age early by pillaging all the villages so other players can't play all their cards and use all their rage. You can castle up on a province so no other player can move into contest and leave that village unpillaged to drag the age out to as long as you want. 3. Each age has stronger and stronger cards allowing crafty players to make comebacks. 4. There are multiple ways to win: Dying with Loki cards, dying in Ragnarok, winning several battles with a decent Axes stat, Questing for map control, questing to release people from Valhalla, bonus glory for high level stats. The game is about board control, you can't go all in every fight you need board presence to carry over from each age. If you let people get Yggdrasill for free its your own fault. If you had a runaway winner one person knew how to play the game and the rest of you were bad. You say yourself it was your first time playing. Well your teacher was a jerk and crushed you for their own amusement. Don't let their mistake ruin your chance to enjoy a fantastic game. Blood Rage more so than so many other games is extremely tightly balanced. It rewards knowledge of what cards are in the deck, another reason why your first playthrough was sour. Its hard to plan for the unknown.
I backed the Blood Rage kickstarter just for the minis. The game didn't interest me at all. Now I'm excited about the game as well as the plastic. Thanks for the review guys. ^_^ The Dice Tower Please loose the leaf wipes. They're very detracting. Excellent review otherwise.
For the first time ever, I 100% AGREE with Tom on this one. Sam and Zee, although they had some good points, I felt were not giving much helpful insight on pros vs cons. Overall, good job guys!
paxton73 Yeah no it really doesn't. Part of the strategy is sometimes to purposefully lose, and having it up to the luck of dice would REALLY throw that strategy off. Dice do not belong in this game whatsoever.
Can you gentlemen please use a new system to rate the games at the end other than a 2 thumbs up? All that tells me is you think its a good game. I would like/prefer a rating out of 10 and then tell me two games in the genre, one slightly worse and one slightly better. I think it gives a more detailed and informative way of describing how good the game is rather than a boring "2 thumbs up" approach. Thank you.
Who’s watching this in 2017 and laughing when you realize that’s how Sam acted reviewing his current favourite game
I know! That's hilarious!
I'm watching this in 2019, and there's no way someone looking at this video would think it will become one of Sam's favorites of all time.
That's what I thought the entire time :D
Nicholas Rees guyhrrfvevtgevgfevffkuwrjfk
I like Sam for the most part but damn does he counter people just for the sake of arguing sometimes.
Tom...took your advice to catch up on all of the other great videos while you were all away at BGG Con. Glad I did! As someone that is making the transition over to board games (newbie here), all of the contributors to the Dice Tower have made it much easier through advice, game reviews, and of course, the comic relief. One issue I'm finding is reading the comments. Although there are many great questions and positive comments (which I enjoy reading), I find it hard to read comments about "leaves during transitions" or a full psychological analysis of Zee, Sam, Tom, or other contributors. Fortunately, I can find a positive out of all of the negatives in comments. I now know who to avoid and who to add to my gaming table. Keep up the great work and enjoyable vids...hope to meet you all at a Con someday!
“Listen to me listeners, they’re both wrong”. Lol, God has spoken! (Thunder and Lighting)
Rare Dice Tower video where I felt Tom was not at his best. I felt that every time Sam or Zee wasn't crazy about something, Tom was quick to say they were wrong and was an apologist for the game. I expect those types of dismissive exchanges on the BGG forums, not on Miami Dice.
William Smith I did notice that, but I'm okay with that happening here simply because how much Tom has been hyping up this game in prior videos. The fact that he actually let the other two finish what they were saying without jumping in and screaming was about as much restraint as I could expect knowing Tom's feelings on the game.
William Smith Tom has a lot of rage in this video
well it is funny that for Sam is this is on his top 10 games now and for Zee it was on his essential games list. Guess Tom was right.
I'll stop commenting on individual comments but I find it interesting that folks are ragging on Tom for loving the game while everyone else was lukewarm on it. As it turns out he was probably right in the end as Sam calls it his favorite game of all time right now, and Zee put it on an essential list.
I love how these guys are nice about their reviews but at the same can be honest and destroy aspects of it but still like the game. Old School Honesty; honest, brutal, truthful and to the point.
First off, not a fan of the leaf fades. They really were distracting. I agree with the comments that it felt like Tom was not going to let any negativity in this review. Why have Zee and Sam in there if they can't offer their opinions? Especially when it seems that they aren't all starry eyed about the latest and greatest. I haven't seen this much hype since Arcadia Quest, another CMON/Eric Lang product. Im not saying the love isn't genuine. But these games should not be immune from negative comments from all hosts. You are much better than that and I have a ton of respect and gratitude for what the DT does for the hobby. Sam and Zee are a part of that too. Please let them continue to do the voodoo that they do so well! :)
Ray Myers
I don't really understand why so many comments agains Tom's love for Eric's games have appeared. You might be right about the amount of hype for Arcadia Quest - it was strange for me then and I was doubtful after going only through the rules. But then I've played it about a month ago and I fell in love with it and praise it since then. I don't know if everybody will love it (probably not) but how can I - I can only say it is great for me. Objectively I can say that it has great design elements and it is gorgeous and subjectively I just love it. I don't know how Tom could do anything but that for Arcadia, Dice Masters (even though I'm not in love with this one) and now Blood Rage - he gives his objective opinion sprinkled with his love for the games which he is excited for. I wouldn't discourage him from doing this, but rather encourage viewers to take all the opinions of the reviewers more cautiously - they are always subjective in some way - the best you can do is to learn if the reviewer has similar taste to your's.
One last thing - You say that the game (all games) should not be immune from negative comments. But they are not - the exact reason why this discussion is possible is that those comments were in the video and got to you through Sam and Zee. Nobody stopped them from publication, there was no censorship - it was only Tom's opinion and why shouldn't he say that he disagrees. You could say that it seemed as he did not allow for others to have different opinion - yeah, and Sam punches Zee a lot, they clearly don't like each other. Tom's opinion isn't any more important than Sam's or Zee's - thay are just their opinions and you should judge which opinion is more important for you (which reviewer's taste is more similar to your taste). When we see them debate or agrue, it is only beneficial to us viewers, we get more arguments and can decide which are closer to our own.
Sorry for the prolonged response (and perhaps a bit too preachy tone) but I have been surprised by so many negative comments on Tom's love for the game that none of use have even played yet. Your comment was just one of the comments I've read when I decided to respond - I have nothing agains You, just wanted give Tom some support.
Paweł Stelmach I only mention Arcadia Quest because his connection with this same designer and publisher. I love for Tom to have his own opinion and to express it. My main beef was that Tom debates both Zee and Sam's opinions to a new level. He's done that before, but this time: he was visible irritated that ANY negative thing was being said. Far more than simple disagreement. It's like"im the boss" a little bit
Paweł Stelmach And I just want to be clear, I'm not trying to troll. I just value multiple opinions and don't want that to go away. It's a definitive strength of The Dice Tower for multiple honest opinions.
Ray Myers
Of course, I didn't perceive it as trolling. I don't even want to persuade You to agree with me. I just wanted give some balance in the comments to opinions that I perceived as a bit negative and that started to appear in greater numbers without any response from those who think otherwise.
Interesting factoid, this game's art was made by Adrian Smith, one of the best living illustrators alive, he's worked on Warhammer, 7 Sins, Diablo among other horror and fantasy games. The sculpts of these miniatures are based off of his designs, so yeah, you like the miniatures, look Adrian Smith up and give a like to his art.
Is it just me or was Tom a bit .. harsh (I don't know if that's the best word) on Sam and Zee during some of the exchanges ... more than usual :) I'm not saying he was mean or anything but at times it seemed a bit like you wanted to go "Dude ... chill." :)
+Geek Factor
He seemed super excited about this game. Quite smitten.
can't really blame him :)
Geek Factor funny how this is Sam's #1 game now.
He is harsh with all his people. I stopped listening to the podcast because of this, it was painful hearing him and how nervous his people were of him.
Well, that was harsh, Brian. Sheesh! Tom's a really nice guy.
I was doing drafting back in college back in 1999 with Magic Gathering especially in seal deck competition. We all sat around a table opened up packs at same time take a card out pass the stack to next player. Also I think 7 wonders does that but I don't know when that was released.
If he likes drafting and detailed miniatures, he's going to love Mythic Battles: Phanteon.
Are those marijuana leaves that you guys are using for transition animations?
Yeah, Tom's point about not having to put the minis together, is a great point. Is the expense that much greater to cast a mold in 1 pc...or ship it in 1 pc? Shadows of Brimstone would have been an easy sell for me if I didn't have to assemble the minis, some of which were a nightmare.
Same here. I like miniatures but won't buy a game where I'd have to put them together myself. I'm terrible with such things and would also wonder how the heck I could get it back in the box. If it fits assembled in the box, it should have come assembled anyways.
Games Workshop miniatures can be put together because you can customize your army, giving your space marines different types of guns or attachments. Putting them in different poses, arm up in one, arm down in the other.
In miniature wargaming, hobbyists will often cut apart one-piece minis just to re-pose them and make their army unique, because building the army is often seen to be as much fun as playing the game. And if you paint your miniatures, odds are you'll be painting more than playing anyway.
It's a lot of work though and in that case the single game would pretty much be an entire hobby on it's own and painting and all that would be part of it.
Personally I'd rather not paint at all. If I'd be able to find someone near me who might paint my board game miniatures for me I'd go for that, assuming the price is reasonable.
Yeah I play a lot of miniature games but I'm too lazy to paint 90% of them either. I just play them instead.
Hey Tom! @ 1:51 you have a picture of last weeks game Dark Moon. I am really surprised seeing how nobody really liked the cover art.
Love Sam's facial expressions in this. I think actions speak louder then words especially during this review.
Did they ever make an edition with all the expansions included?
I love that Tom - called Blood Rage a sort of a remake of Midgard, I'm aware that there is minis and another level/upgrade on Blood Rage than the "older version".
I own Midgard and have backed Blood Rage (waiting impatiently for the package) - I asked both via Facebook and through the KS - for a comment on "remake" - but only gor vague answers. - So I'm very happy that Tom views it the same way.
Morten Mejnholt It's sort of a spiritual successor in many ways, but Eric Lang himself has stated that it's not truly a remake. It honestly combines elements of Midgard with another of his games, Chaos in The Old World.
Eric loved Midgard. He told me that it was one of his absolute favourite designs, but he made the personal mistake of leaving the component design to some friends over more professional designers, which led to a disappointing appearance of the game, which as a result potentially led to it being overlooked by many.
Midgard is the first designer game I bought, and I love it, even though I cannot get it to the table anymore. I hate that I couldn't afford to back this when it was running.
Sam and Zee seem conflicted with their reviews of this. It felt like they were trying to keep Tom in check with his review. Tom obviously loves it, or is at least proclaiming to.
It felt like Sam and Zee liked it, but made negative comments to ring down the hype. Or maybe they didntreally like it, but didnt want to let Tom down? I dunno, this review just felt uncomfortable.
There has been a lot of good feedback on Blood Rage around the internet, and I'm excited for it but trying to keep my hopes in check. Tom also loves Kaosball (an Eric Lang and CMON game), which I rank as one of the worst 3-5 games I have ever played.
snowren24 No, I liked it plenty, game play-wise...and the minis are awesome. My only real nit-pick is that the player boards are cheapish, and the cards are a bit small and also on the cheapish side. I guess when you have minis this good in board games, you have to cut costs elsewhere to keep the price point manageable.
Sam Healey cool, that seems to be the way CMON does things, awesome minis and just ok player boards and cards. As a backer I'm glad to hear you liked the gameplay as I tend to side with you more than Tom on game reviews.
@@SamHealey6 And now its your favorite game of all time? :P
At first, this game looked like it wouldn't be for me. I'm generally not very interested in combat/battle/war, etc. themes in general. And the worst of those is dice roll and see who gets the highest value and they win the battle, or games that reach some kind of equilibrium and can go on forever Risk. Even with asymmetric powerups of additional dice or whatever, there's nothing I find more boring than that. But this game hardly even seems like a combat game-- the fact that dying in the battles can get you points as well as winning, and the drafting and asymmetric powers makes it seem pretty neat-- and after watching the playthrough, it looks like a really fun game. It's going on my wish list. At the same time, Cosmic Encounter hasn't really appealed to me, but this one certainly does. I really wish this game was around decades ago when Risk was all the "rage" in my game group-- I always thought Risk sucked for the most part and would go on forever. Blood Rage here seems to solve everything I didn't like about Risk and then some, yet still retain a "combat" theme.
Have you tried Clockwork Wars by Eagle Gryphon games? Given how much your game group enjoys Blood Rage, I think you would like Clockwork Wars.
LOVE Sam's reaction to Tom's claims
The only thing that interests me in this is the mechanism of getting more points losing in battles or just dying. Though i wonder if it is not the same as dumb reverse "deduction" like in Tobago or similar games. When you are not deducting where the treasure is, but it just ends up in some place depending on how cards are drawn, etc. So i would have to see a playthrough or play this to see if it is not just a reverse of "winner gets more" to "loser gets more" or is it actually that clever, that you can get very swinging points by choosing different strategy in one battle (dying, losing, completing some quest, winning) and that by that all participating players can get some what equal amount of points. More interesting is how can you interfere with strategies of other players. Say you go to battle to get a lot of points winning it, so you play cards increasing your power, but then you see another player moves into battle and you know he is getting lot of points by losing. So how can you stop him from doing that? Or you just don't care and go for your goals? This feels a bit of solitaire then. When all the players don't fight to win and everyone has his own goals in the battle. Then it does feel like euro, when all are just maximizing points.
OOOPsie Dark Moon logo showing on game info screen
It's been a long time since I was really truly excited for an upcoming game. Blood Rage looks like a perfect storm of design. It has everything I'm looking for in this kind of game. Eric Lang has said it's his best 'dudes on a map' game and I believe him. Can't wait for my KS version to arrive!
Counter Culture Should you be commenting this, or should you be working on your next review? Hmmm? I guess you know the answer! Move along. C'mon! :P
I've got no particular Eric Lang crush. And I rarely get crazy about the same stuff Tom goes crazy for. But this game is absolutely amazing.
I like your pot leaf transitions here!
Can´t wait to get mine. This game looks so good.
Eric Lang really hit the head of the Scandinavian look. The minis are a little bit to American but no big deal.
I haven't played Cosmic Encounter so I don't know how well this game compares to it. However Chaos in the Old World is one of my favorite board games and I saw a few things here that reminded me of that game like the point system across the edge of the board, the land destruction and board control theme. Instead of players choosing unique demon lords at the beggining of the game who have different play styles here your play style is based on the cards you pick on the drafts. Since there are several drafts in the game I guess that gives more flexibility for players to change their strategy mid game than in Chaos. Anyone here has played both games? I'm trying to figure out whether this game is a good fit for players who enjoy Chaos in the Old World or if they are similar enough not to warrant a purchase of both.
Finally a Kickstarter I backed that will deliver! Can't wait till it arrives.
Does this game look like it will have expansions? Is this the type of game that you might get tired of after several plays? Helpful to hear your thoughts on those questions, really enjoyed hearing your thoughts on this game I hope to get a chance to play it.
E Bur I would take expansions, of course. But I don't feel like it needs them. Plenty of stuff going on in the game.
E Bur There are some expansions already coming, they were unlocked in the KS and they add things like a 5th player and the mystics. There's also a gods of Asgard expansion but I'm not sure what that adds.
Mark Tresidder The gods, if i recall in the KS post, add one random god out of the seven (thor, Odin, loki, heimdall, ect...) onto the board that grants a specific bonus tied to that god if you are in the same place as the god mini is in
Shamans is also an expansion. New set of dudes that have a little more power than typical warriors or leaders ie they can enter a full province and kill people to take their place or they won't be destroyed if they lose.
Neither this or the Gods expansion seem to change the game all that much, but I view it as a good thing to be honest. Expansions for most games don't see play time for new players, bc of special nuances that get lost when learning a game for the first time. I would feel comfortable busting these out right away.
Maybe a totally off-side question, but what's the name of the intro song? Man, i love that sound :-)
Do we know if the minis look extra-special-good because this is a pre-production copy of the game? I mean, the game isn't in production yet, according the the KS project. So I'm wondering if the minis in Tom's box will be identical to those in the production copies. These could be masters or resin prototypes?
wrong image in the overview screen. image from "dark moon" i guess.
Very useful review. So helpful to see that a game really isnt for me (same for Gloomhaven)
It almost seemed like Zee and Sam were blasting the game at first on purpose just to mess with Tom lol. I think they have come around to love the game.
Woohoo! I backed this one! Eric Lang is really fast becoming my favorite designer.
If i had to choose between blood rage and cry havoc, what would you suggest?
I had the same question a few months ago.
haven't gotten cry havoc yet but still want to.
got blood rage + 5th expansion (all you really need)
blood rage and Scythe (with its expansion) are our 2 top games we play over and over.
My 12-year old son and I have played both a few times now and we rate Blood Rage quite a bit higher at this point. Cry Havoc is a great game, don't get me wrong, but Blood Rage just works better for us.
yesterday i tryed blood rage.
WOW
that's an awesome experience. i will defentely buy it. i didnt tryed cry havoc yet though
I find it laughable that Tom thinks that Games Workshop could learn from CMON. These are great BOARDGAME minis, maybe the best, but they won't beat the hard plastic minis you assemble yourself that GW has done in the last two years.
Zeetro Please note that I agreed with you before you said this...;)
Zeetro yep agree totally. Studio McVey did the Blood Rage minis, Mike McVey is an ex-GW employee. Anyway I'm happy to see all 3 guys rated the game well.
I'm guessing Tom hasn't seen a GW mini since the 90's if he thinks these look better.
These minis aren't even close to Malifaux and Infinity, let alone GW's current line ups for 40k and Fantasy.
They're fantastic for a boardgame, but are nowhere near tabletop miniature quality.
Can't wait to see what their reaction will be to The Others: 7 Sins.
Kickstarter ending in about an hour. Amazing miniatures and value.
they will whine about it because of the theme. check out the review for Chaos in the old world.
What was the music during the component dump?
Ha ha, "if you like Cosmic Encounter, you'll like this". Oh, Tom. There's so many more modern, applicable comparisons that could have been made like Chaos in the Old World and Kemet. CitOW is even another Eric Lang game!
"If you liked the Ford Model T, you'll like the 2018 Honda Civic!"
Even though Cosmic came out 40 years ago, it still feels modern.
What feels modern about it? As in, what does it still do as good or better than modern games that have yet to surpass it?
Dune still feels modern because you could debate that zero or very few games have yet to replicate its diplomatic backstabbing and totally different play style asymmetrical factions grounded in a solid strategy game. Rising Sun and Twilight Imperium are sort of close but still don't reach the same level of asymmetry and diplomatic options.
Agricola doesn't feel modern because at least half a dozen worker placement games have surpassed it at this point.
There's no reason to ever go back to Chaos in the Old World because better games like Kemet, Cyclades, Blood Rage, and Rising Sun have left it in the dust.
Cosmic to me always felt like some dopey Steve Jackson game that you and your buddies played in the 80s because it was silly and it was your only option for boardgames that weren't roll & move or monsterous hex wargames. Looking at it from a modern design perspective, it feels like Mario Party where it's just constant randomness until someone wins. There's almost zero thought in balancing the races, and if an observer looked at everyone's cards, he could probably predict the winner before the game even starts. That's not even getting into the ridiculous moons expansion.
Can we honestly say that if Cosmic came out today, everyone's reaction wouldn't be "was this playtested at all?" I'd put it in the same category as Nuclear War: The Card Game, a silly game you laughed at when you were younger from a different era when it stood out, but you realize now it doesn't hold up at all as a game.
Looks alot like kemet. Eurotrash, teleporting in dudes, can advance factions in different directions, cardcombat, action points... Etc
Do you feel the retail version is noticeably lacking due to the "missing" KS exclusives? I just cant bring myself to buy a game about Ragnarok that doesnt include Fenrir
If you look at all the exclusives, they are cool but it seems you would be at a disadvantage if that's all you drafted. Saying that, I doubt people would see the SG monsters being on the table as often as we would like. Don't think you're missing out on much w the retail box although I feel the same way. Hard to know you missed out on some great free stuff.
The Dice Tower How easy is the game to teach? It looks to me like a lot of the information is on the board which is great :)
Soooo, this is exactly like cosmic encounter?
is it worth it if I can only get the core edition? (kickstarter is 3x the price)
Different ways of winning. Pretty cool. I was waiting for this review eagerly. Vikings I really like very much. Awesome review guys. Definately one I will BUY! :D
Hi guys! What is your definition of soon? :D i cant wait to get my hands on it! - Best regards from The real viking from Denmark !
I think that this is more like Kemet than Cosmic encounter. It's a hybrid game.
Finally played it. Good fun!
I have the feeling you guys should Re-Review this game ... this review was just awefull to watch. Nobody seemed to be interested to do a review of this game that day
Yeah, considering this is now Sam's favorite game of all time haha
this game reminds me of chaos in the old world, but with drafting
its worths the money for Blood Rage, if i already have kemet at home. Because i saw the rules and maybe reminds me Kemet. Its similar, its worths to have all the two games?
Kemet is way better
dont understand why they dont design these large boards with indentation for cards and tokens, so they dont simply slide off the board.
So glad I backed this! I don't think people realize just how strategic the game is :D
Mark Tresidder So you've played it?
Steve Gale Nope haven't played it but at lot of people I talk to think it's just mini heavy with hardly any game to it. I tried to tell them differently just from reading the rules. It's nice to see it was good shout backing the game, since after all it's Eric Lang.
Mark Tresidder I don't really see the big deal about Eric Lang that you and Tom are making of him (he peaked with Chaos in the Old World IMO), but I guess I'll wait and see what the Secret Cabal will to say about it. It's a definite maybe.
Dice Masters and XCom I've played. Dice Masters is pretty facile, but it's okay. I like XCom, since it fills the niche of a three-player co-op, but I know many in my groups have played it once and been turned off.
Michael Smith The only one of those I liked was Arcadia Quest (still wouldn't even make my top 20). I concur with Steve Gale's opinion that he peaked with Chaos in the Old World. That game is easily my favorite in the area control genre.
I had a chance to play this at CoolMiniExpo and I did not. I have been kicking myself ever since.
"Games Workshop can take lessons from these guys." - Compare them to the minis in WarhammerQuest Silver Tower. I love CMON, but Tom sure hasn't seen any GW minis in a while.
I don't believe I had to put these minis together. No glue necessary. And painted, yes, I consider them equal. Also cheaper!
I concur on the assembly. But the detail is unparallaled.
At 1:52 you show Dark Moon minature instead of Blood Rage.
Tom, your review wasn't very clear. Is it going into your collection :P
How is this compared to Cyclades or Kemet?
Worse
@@kustomkure u mean kemet and cyclades is better??
So... this seems like a substitute for Chaos in the Old World if you are not a Warhammer fanboy? (I did not back it because I have Cthulhu Wars to fill that niche.)
Tor Iver Wilhelmsen I felt the same way, except I have Lord of the Ice Garden for my Area Control/variable player powers/hybrid niche game.
So this board game is Amon Amarth: The Board Game?
I like the marijuana leaves for the transitions!
This game definitely has some broken parts to it:
I played a game this weekend where me and the two other players had a battle in Yggdrasil (center province). Since it was getting near the end of the age, we went all in (sent all troops to the center for rights to pillage). I had initiated the pillage, but my friend ended up winning the battle, so on his next turn of the round he pillaged it for the grand reward. He had previously upgraded his clan with the "spend two rage to re-pillage a province" and so on his next turn he did it again. The round ends, and only surviving clan members stay on the board (save for those destroyed in Ragnrok) so he started the round IN Yggdrasil. He became the first player in the subsequent round, and so what does he do but pillage it AGAIN, without anybody to challenge him! Then he used his next turn to pillage it AGAIN (spending two rage), and since me and the other friend had only been able to invade once before that (with one character each), there was really nothing we could do to stop him (keep in mind he still had his whole army in there). Before I knew what was happening his stats were maxed out (giving him the +30 Glory x3 for the endgame bonus) while I had only managed, up until then, to upgrade my rage and horns ONCE.
I enjoy this game, and the miniatures are great, but I really don't feel like it was play-tested thoroughly enough.
You played it wrong. It’s not two rage for repillage, it’s two rage to commit to a pillage after already done an action. You don’t get the reward twice.
@@sirhc8927 No, it was an upgrade card, not an action.
@@mattbrendlen yes I know. But it becomes an action after the upgrade is played that the player can commit to and be stopped by others.
From this video to now on Sam's actual feelings about this game LOL
Thanks for the video. Looks like a very fun game.
I like very much Tom´s reviews, but this one is strange. Telling things (reasoned) about why they don´t like a game it doesn´t mean that the game is bad, are only honest opinions and points of view. This it makes the video objetive and useful.
Probably (I still don´t know) "Blood Rage" is a really good game, but I feel like Tom tried to make a sale.
Perhaps this could be part of a new sub-genre of games, berzerker placement.
The image in 1:53 it's from another game... this is normal or...?
Rafael Borges It's from the previous Miami Dice Episode, Dark Moon. It's not normal, no. I guess that they forgot to edit that part :p
Yeah.
Rafael Borges and they hated that cover (or did they???)
One of those times I massively disagree with Dice Tower. We tried BR recently and were hugely disappointed.
Sam is right here. I do like Cosmic Encounter but I am not too keen on Blood Rage. I mean, I like Blood Rage. But I think Tom's conclusion is a bit off here.
Seems like Tom was right in the end, since this is now Sam's favorite game.
PLOT TWIST: Blood Rage is actually Dark Moon!
Devon Hummel Heh heh, yeah Zee and Sam had the same response. It was almost deja-vu.
Could you do 2 vs 2 in this game?
whats about with the marihuana leaves?
This reminds me of Chaos in the Old World
Uh were those cannabis leaves in the transitions?
Read the rules, played the first round, and thought it was pretty awesome. Then I got to see much of the game interacted....absolutely despised this game. Only the second game (first was Monopoly) in 30 years I had to get up and leave in the middle of out of disgust. Suffers HORRIBLY from a run away leader issue.
Agree completely. The game is fine but it was definitely over-hyped beyond belief due to the desginer, minis, and CMON name on the box
I have played this game easily 20 times.
This game has a laundry list of mechanisms designed to prevent a runaway leader.
The only way this could have happened is if there was a large gap in player skill.
1. When card drafting you can hate draft other players from getting what they want/need.
2. You can end the age early by pillaging all the villages so other players can't play all their cards and use all their rage. You can castle up on a province so no other player can move into contest and leave that village unpillaged to drag the age out to as long as you want.
3. Each age has stronger and stronger cards allowing crafty players to make comebacks.
4. There are multiple ways to win: Dying with Loki cards, dying in Ragnarok, winning several battles with a decent Axes stat, Questing for map control, questing to release people from Valhalla, bonus glory for high level stats.
The game is about board control, you can't go all in every fight you need board presence to carry over from each age. If you let people get Yggdrasill for free its your own fault.
If you had a runaway winner one person knew how to play the game and the rest of you were bad. You say yourself it was your first time playing. Well your teacher was a jerk and crushed you for their own amusement. Don't let their mistake ruin your chance to enjoy a fantastic game.
Blood Rage more so than so many other games is extremely tightly balanced. It rewards knowledge of what cards are in the deck, another reason why your first playthrough was sour. Its hard to plan for the unknown.
I think Tom was very abrasive in this video. It was a bit uncomfortable to watch.
Loki strategy... I see what you did there Sam.
Tom was a little grumpy in this video. I wonder if it was post-convention lag
Optional rule: Listen to Amon Amarth the entire time you play this game.
Where is Tom and Sam complaining about the dark theme and morbidity like CitoW?
17:15 poor Jason 😂😂😂
I’m waiting for Tom to rub both of their heads and making a squeaky cleaning sound.
Combat reminds me of Kaosball :)
1:52 something is wrong in this picture
Is this better than champions of midgard
Not comparable at all. As in "would play now"? Yes.
I backed the Blood Rage kickstarter just for the minis. The game didn't interest me at all. Now I'm excited about the game as well as the plastic. Thanks for the review guys. ^_^
The Dice Tower Please loose the leaf wipes. They're very detracting. Excellent review otherwise.
What is with the pot leaves scrolling across the screen... Are you guys smoking doobies?! o_0
Wow, this has a biased Tom Vasel Eric Lang thing going on. Did not expect this.
In retrospect this is SUCH a disappointment :C
Try Clockwork Wars.
boring game
Don't like the board but I'll buy this ASAP.
For the first time ever, I 100% AGREE with Tom on this one. Sam and Zee, although they had some good points, I felt were not giving much helpful insight on pros vs cons. Overall, good job guys!
Not comparable to Cosmic Encounter IMO
Zee is correct...the board really looks dull. The whole game looks rather bland beyond the minis.
Yes indeed! The board is dull (not epic enough).
No, the board is fine.
Needs dice to add to combat
paxton73 Yeah no it really doesn't. Part of the strategy is sometimes to purposefully lose, and having it up to the luck of dice would REALLY throw that strategy off. Dice do not belong in this game whatsoever.
OdinWolf74 THIS!!...and I'm usually a fan of dice combat. But it doesn't belong here.
Ugh, saw the small cards and got sad....why not just use normal sized cards. Hate holding, shuffling, or handling those tiny cards.
because you put about 7 or 8 of them around your player board and your player board would be HUGE if they were normal sized.
Can you gentlemen please use a new system to rate the games at the end other than a 2 thumbs up? All that tells me is you think its a good game. I would like/prefer a rating out of 10 and then tell me two games in the genre, one slightly worse and one slightly better. I think it gives a more detailed and informative way of describing how good the game is rather than a boring "2 thumbs up" approach. Thank you.
You can see their ratings here: www.dicetower.com/board-game-videos?field_category_tid=5
They gave Blood Rage a 9.5.
Thanks Gabriel!