My Stihl chainsaw won’t start!!! Step by step diagnoses and how to repair
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- Опубліковано 9 сер 2020
- This video is a full length step by step view on how I diagnose and fixed my MS180c chainsaw. I show and tell my thought process as I sort out the problems and make the appropriate fixes. Turns out it was a carburetor related issue that couldn’t be repaired with a fresh carb rebuild kit. I had to buy a replacement carb and that turned out to be the trick!
Check out my latest videos on my channel!
Cheers,
Dave
Saw arrived yesterday ua-cam.com/users/postUgkxfQm1wmg0ItKDLavxj1nXtQY9HP7EF504 and today I cut about 3/4 cord of wood with it. Make sure you get an extension chord that is at least 12 gauge wire, minimum. This is my first electric in about 10 years, and things sure have improved. The self-sharpener works great, and it just kept cutting through some pretty decent logs. Wear your eye protection, and ear protection. Excellent saw.
🗑️🗑️🗑️🗑️🗑️🗑️🗑️
Hey David I can tell you why the film you found on metering diaphragm. I've ran into this many times. Who ever owned the saw got a brain fart and put chain oil in the gas tank instead of where it was supposed to go. When I say I've run into before, I'm talking at least one saw every year. Most of the time it is steel saws that I get like that. Good video showing people who don't know how to track down there problems.
Hey Dewey! Thanks so much for the kind words. I appreciate it!
Thanks Dave, I like seeing people try to make the existing parts work without just jumping to a new carb. Word of advice and this comes from experience, be very careful where you stick wires in these carburetors. Only do this with passage ways, not CHECK VALVEs. You noted before that one of those were check valves. If you poke a wire through the check valve, guess what ? Yep, you have likely just ruined the check valve. I have found its best to try to spray carb cleaner or some premixed fuel through the check valves. The trick is you have to find which way to spray or push the fuel through it because check valves are 1 way devices. Another way is to get a piece of fuel line and press up to the check valve and see if you can push or draw air through it, but DON'T use the air compressor. As said, I know because I have done it.
That all makes tons of sense. Thanks for watching and the reply!
Well explained.
Surely, Dave should get some education on carburetors.....
Great breakdown,worth watching to the end...my 2 cents is,I had a spark plug that sparked really well,but did not start,replaced plug and it's back to new,this has only happened to me twice in 60 yrs....they are frustrating at times...
At least you are honest about not starting.
I remember those old Briggs and Stratons engines. By time you start them, you are to tired to use the equipment.
Picked up a used ms170. Had great spark and compression but needed carb work. After I did a complete rebuild on it, I could only get it to (burp) on full choke. After that no matter what you did it always flooded the engine. Since these carbs don’t have H & L screws just an idle adjustment, the idle screw was set so low that it wouldn’t even start. After I increased the idle speed, it runs good now.
That’s awesome Matt! I love to hear it. Good work!
Awesome! Thanks so much. Very informative and detailed.
just had the same issue with my stihl. Thanks for the insight. when i pull the cable i can feel the pickup dragging.
When the carb is off ALWAYS shine a light into the intake and look at the surface of the piston. Usually no vertical scratch are seen but if there are scratches and they cross thru the rings there will be compression issues. Usually there isn’t much wrong on the intake side as most damage happens on the exhaust side which requires muffler removal to view the condition of piston and cylinder wall.
The 'ol bar oil in the gas tank trick eh! Looks like they mixed them up, look in the oil tank for the gas lol. When testing the saw, you need to tighten the carb correctly to ensure there is no air leak. maybe flush the fuel line, probably full of that oil as well. Enjoyed the video.
Thanks Mark!!!
just installed a rebuilt carb with all new fuel lines. got a blip dribbling in fuel straight into the carb. no primer bulb. gonna remove carb and with a syringe pull fuel into the new line coming from fuel tank. liked your fueling direct through the spark plug hole directly into the top of the cylinder.
Great video Dave! Thank you!!!!
Very informative i have a 170 so saving this one for a guide if I ever have issues
Outstanding video. Solved my issues.
Glad to help!
Great video i have an MS361-C Thanks from Alberta
That’s a great Saw!
Hey David, my stihl chainsaw ms382 idle at a very fast rpm on starting without accelerating,,i've tried tuning the carb,cleaned the carb,checked the fuel line,install a new block&piston,checked every possible point but still the same problem arise,,what should I look for according to you?
this is really helpful for my saw
Thanks Tim!
Great stuff!
My first try when I'm presented with this problem on my saw, is to dump the fuel and replace it with Stihl 50-1 mix from the local Stihl dealer. It's usually because I've got old gas in there that's been sitting too long. 90% of the time my saw will fire right up after a few pulls with the new fuel. This video, is what happens the other 10% of the time, lol. Great tutorial.
Hi Dave.
Thanks for your video.. I'm a newbie Stihl's user and I doesn't have knowledge and experience before.
May i know, what is the problem MS250 when i pull to start it but they stuck. It become hard to pull. Highly pleasure if u tell me what it is about?
Thanks a lot Dave.
Love the videos keep them up
Thanks buddy!
Nice job Dave. Very informative video.
Thank you!
Dave does have a small engine, I've seen it, very small but works
Small, but mighty.
I needed this video! Thanks alot
Hey Melvin! I’m glad to have helped. Hope to see you back soon!
I just replaced the carb today. Because of you it runs like a champ. I feel like I owe you money. Lol. Once again thanks!
@@melgoss64 hey Melvin! Stick around for more videos!!! Thanks for being here, glad it all worked.
How to install the choke lever - push the choke butterfly closed with your thumb and the choke lever will go right into the carb lever.Install the long part of the lever in the Master Control Lever, first.
Thanks Dave.
Cheers!
Hi from Oz. Great vid Dave. You’re a patient mechanic educating us home wanabees. I’m attempting to get a Walbro HDA-23 carburettor working again by fitting a new carby kit but don’t have the luxury of buying a new carby if it doesn’t work because they don’t make them anymore. The carby is off a classic Sashs Dolmar 116 chainsaw. Hope I don’t have to throw it away.
What a great project! Take your time, I bet you’ll have success!!!
Great video. Thanks! 😀
Hey Charles! Thanks for stopping in. Cheers!
....thanks Dave for a "real-world" DIY video where you show exactly the same difficulties I'm having restoring a MS170 and MS180C.......your video is raw and
unedited and shows your failure and success....and I have thoroughly enjoyed watching.....would like to know what after-market carb you used...maybe a link?...
thanks again for the posting... :)
Hey Ken! Thanks for the kind words. I can’t recall which one… it was most certainly a cheapie overseas version available on Amazon or Ali express. Take care!
I have a new Ms 250 Sthl chain saw It is hard to Start. No Decompression value on it. Any advice you can give me would be appreciated.
Taking the carb off a Stihl 011, I dropped some oily sawdust into the cylinder.
Would it be sufficient to flush it out with paint thinner or must I open the motor?
I wouldn’t open the motor for that. I’d rinse it out or use compressed air!
When testing put a small amount of fuel into the carb throat. It will help to pull fuel when it fires unless you still have something in the lines or carb that is still restricting fuel passage.
Doesn’t that model have a spark arrester screen behind the muffler? It could be clogged from idling.
Thanks Dav, Good video, next time you can keep your camera to focus on the parts you are fixing,. one of the methods of checking fuel flow is to remove the spark plug and cover the hole with your thumb and give a kick, if there is fuel flow you would see traces of fuel on your thumb. Extreme care is needed to prevent any ingress of dirt in to the cylinder. It is always better to clean the machine with compressed air before opening . . Thanks for sharing.
You’re absolutely right! I have learned now to focus on a thorough cleaning before repair (after diagnoses).
@@DavesSmallEngines yes, thank you dav
Great tip.
@@katsivan5148 thanks!!!
Dave, good video. I have worked on many chainsaws myself, and you take right after me. Neatness!!. I cant stand a sloppy work area. And I like the clean cloth you put down you dont lose parts. I also enjoy Donnyboy72m Steves small engine shop, and Taryl. Great Video Dave. Donny has taught you well!!!
Hey Con! Thanks so much for the kind words. I appreciate it!!!
A lot of times when you checked the sparkplug, the carburator settings (old saws only), the airfilter and cannot fin the fault with a saw, it is often the fuel-line being cracked and drawing in too much air along with the fuel, or to little fuel depending on how the fuelpump works. An insidious error because it starts at first, but after you shut it down and tries again, or when you start revving, it dies. ......SOOOO MUCH SWEARING....
I have problem whit my ms180 she start nice but when i want to cut she go little in the wood then chain stop but she working.can u help
The handle interferes with line up when removing the right carb screw. Those screws are also swedged which makes them come off and go on with resistance.
Can you put the whole carburetor in an ultrasonic cleaning machine and solve the issue without disassemble and hand cleaning?
Looking at the carburetor when you first take it apart it look like they filled it up with straight to cycle oil it being all green no gas and maybe they tried to mix it in the fuel tank itself
Maybe you could get your air compressor out to or a blower and clean the inside out don't forget to take your recoil off too because that really gets really dirty and then they don't run too good they get overheated
Very true William!
On the metering side there are welsh plugs, which usually are not always serviced but can get crap within them. They are serviceable but difficult level for beginners is no friendly.
What kind of oil did you inject in the plug hole?
Stihl oil, always!
I have this saw for small jobs. 12months old. Just changed the air filter spark plug (gapped .025) fuel hose fuel filter and aftermarket carb. Was having a issue of saw starting, letting it warm up then once I hit the throttle it chokes out? Dies when just touch it? But it idles fine. No adjustments on the OEM carb or new one. Any tips?
Hmm, something isn’t right there. Check the tank vent!
My ms 180 c is not even 2 years old and maybe 20 hours of home use and it won't start anymore. Maybe it got to hot? I was using a dull chain and used it for like 20min and it got hot.
Dont know if anyone said it, but the green in the fuel in the carb. is from varnish and oil mixing.
Gross eh?
c stands for - it has additions. They could be Easy Start, tool less chain adjuster or anyone of the options that Stihl offers on their saws.
Yep! “comfort” means a few cool options!
Thanks!
You’re welcome!
Ever used a no contact voltage tester or no contact rpm tester to determine spark?
I may ask you too !!! .... I got a ROSS chain saw I put a new cylinder & piston but it has no compression
A friend suggested to take off the pipe gasket and use gasket glue but still no compression . ....
I pulled apart so many time to check for licks but with no success .
Well, we're all surprised that a Stihl just 'wouldn't start' ! Near the end of the video, it looked like you had thrown the thing out. If you do, please ensure nobody finds it to prevent any further suffering. Thank you.
Cheers!
Ain't that the truth. The newer 'prosumer' saws are a mess... and you go straight to carb problem. Farm Boss owner here.
Had that happen before. Found out that the customer had put bar oil in the fuel tank. Had to clean the whole fuel system and replace the fuel filter. Smoked like a freight train for a few minutes.
Great tip! Did it work fine after?
@@DavesSmallEngines Yes, after a few minutes of running and someone calling the fire department. Lol!
@@andybecker2693 glad to hear you got it going!
If you take out the needle you should see light on the other side. This is where the old gas or oil solidify and need to be cleaned.
Cool! Good tip.
they put bar oil in gas tank >?
You bet! I have seen that before.
Dave, I have a Stihl mini tiller with the same engine you are working with here and I can not get it to even fire. I can rebuild this entire engine by myself and have no hesitations as far as my ability to do it correctly. I rebuilt the carburetor and it was spotless on the inside, not one spec of dirt or debris. I am getting somewhere around 140 PSI compression. I am getting a very strong spark and the spark plug is brand new and putting out a dark blue spark. I even took the flywheel off to make sure the shear pin was not sheared off and the timing being the culprit and no such luck. I've shot carb cleaner gas and brake cleaner in the carb and once again can not even get it to fire. I tried brand new Stihl 2 cycle fuel from a Stihl dealer and still nothing. The primer bulb is working properly and filling the chamber as it should. I think I about covered everything. Got any ideas?
As per my previous comment: cracked fuel conduit, it steals air and gives to little fuel. Very annoying and common error on modern handheld gasoline-engines. The alcohol in the modern fuel does a number on the crap-quality plastic pipes.
Crap on the outside of metering diaphragm is normal in small amounts as the cap breather hole allows it to enter. Usually it causes no issues.
Dave a lot of the viewing was just of the back of your hands. But overall a good video. Cheers
I’m new to video making Garry - I will work in netter angles and some different equipment to help with a better view. Thanks for watching!
Big dave..nice..
Hey Seth!
Always blow off the crap before dismounting carb as it will help to keep crap out of the intake
Bet you they put the bar chain oil in the wrong hole. Though I got a Kawasaki 250 Ninja for cheap and I had to replace the gas tank due to old gas with Ethanol being in the tank since 2008-2009. When I took the carbs off the bike to clean em up I had an 8x8 baking pan I put them in and the neon green slime that oozed out of them carbs was something I have never seen before. I have worked on a lot of bikes and cleaned up a lot of carbs. Never seen that before. I did see on UA-cam one of your cohorts "Mustie" had the same thing happen to him with a carb. he was cleaning up.
Cool! I’ll check it out.
I have a Stihl MS250 its brand new and im having a very hard time getting a full pull..it stops after about 6 inches,I have blisters on my fingers...never had this kind of problem with my other stihl saws...
What happens when you pull the plug out and pull it over?
Bye aculat fuel
The C stands for added features. It can be an easy start, tool less adjust or even Memtronic. It just means added features.
“C” stands for comfort such as easy start, tooless chain tensioner, elastostart, primer bulb/fuel pump…ext. m-tropic is not “c” it’s seperate and designated as “m”
I took my Stihl 028 WB, to a Stihl dealer here in Indianola Iowa oh, USA. Since it had been sitting awhile I wanted it cleaned and tuned. After not hearing from this dealer for 2 weeks I stopped into the shop. They presented me with my saw in a box torn down in parts. They told me that saw was junk and wasn't worth rebuilding. I took the saw home put it all back together and went out and cut wood for an hour. Boy was I pissed, I had done business with this persons family for many many years. Never again.
Hey Pat! That 028 is a great saw. I have had a few of them before. What turned out to be wrong with it?
same story here...
If your just testing the carb you can put the carb on with out the air box.
The fuel line in the tank should always be extracted to see and feel it’s condition. Make a wire hook and reach in and carefully pull it out? At minimum change or clean the filter!
The green is a breakdown of using ethanol fuel and toe stroke oil.
Oh and before you go into all that clean the saw with a simple air blower don't let dirt get all in the saw
Great point William!
i have found that things like mud dobber nest in the exhaust preventing exhaust flow.
Interesting! I’ve seen that too!!!
Cheers mate. I'm now certain that the carb is the issue on the second hand saw I bought. Very informative video 👍🏻
You still need the carburetor on tight even if you are trying it. It’s got to seal and not suck air.
Someone put bar oil in the fuel tank instead of the bar oil tank. I have had this done several times on saws i have worked on
Great video, thanks, where does one get spares parts from??
Try your local dealer! They can order parts in for you. Or, find a parts saw on local buy/sell pages.
I always start with Sawzillaparts.com , and be careful of ebay and amazon, I've gotten just as many wrong parts as correct ones.
Interesting video
I have the same problem, but mine won't start even if I bypass the carb... Those that mean that is a cylnder problem?
Hey there - thanks for the reply. Can you explain the symptoms? Are you getting spark? I have a video on what good spark should look like. Let me know!
@@DavesSmallEngines Yes the spark is great new spark plug. Compression is good. I think no fuel gets in the piston so I tried to bypass like you did but with no luck. Maybe I put to little fuel in there?
@@kwood6762 if you have confirmed you have a nice blue spark (even if the spark plug is new, unless you see the spark yourself you shouldn’t count on the ignition coil or ignition switch being functional) you can try a few more things to diagnose.
How easy is it to pull over? If you pick up the saw by the pull cord does it fall to the ground easily or does the compression hold up the saw?
Any luck?
@@DavesSmallEngines When I pick up the saw by the pull cord it fall to the ground slowly. So I disassemble the exhaust and find the problem. My piston is scored. Thanks for the tip.
Combustion chamber cleaner is the best ive found to clean carb yet
I’ll check it out.
I know these saws don’t have the h adjustment screw but that saw was running lean at full throttle.
I wish I had your ear for it! Maybe one day.
Fuel lines are going to be suspect on this machine as the snot found in the carb can also come from the line breaking down from fuel.
Did it have straight 2 cycle oil in it!?
Great question! I’m not sure!
Had it not started when you put fuel directly into the cylinder what would of been your next step?
Check for spark, then pull muffler and check piston for scoring / low compression.
How do change spark plug wire
I’ve heard of people trying to mix the oil and gas in the tank. Could be the case
Sounds like a nightmare to me!
You need a 1/4inch adapter for your 1/4 inch socket
I have one now!
My stihl is running and heat engine stopped please answer me
I’m not sure what you mean?
Mentioned that you are using BRAKE. Cleaner. Misspoke? Brake cleaner can dissolve rubber, nitrile parts as well as plastic. Behind the welsh plugs are Plastic components and the needle vale yip send seat could be as well. Never use break cleaner!
I was told the "c" stands for California, as in Emisions. These models don't have carb adjustments.
Hey Sam! It actually stands for “comfort feature” which in Stihl talk can mean a few different things!
My Stihl was a demo unit and wouldn't start. Took the cover off and checked the spark plug. Reseated the boot on the plug and it started.
Perfect!
Probably tried to run it on chain bar or oil it's not unusual to get the tanks mixed up.
Please note , safety flip flops are now available from all Builder Depots , designed for use in workshops where you have a spinning cutting chain or blade in use.
Nice! Might have to grab another pair!
Jota, you genius forgot to mention a helmet, safety glasses and a most importantly a covid mask!
A lot of two cycle oil will seperate from the gas if allowed to set a few days. I noticed my 50:1 mix of Echo Red Armor did this in my new MS 250 several weeks ago. I poured the gas out of the 250 and it contained red splotches that looked like blood clots in the gas instead of a red colored gas. I replaced it with 50:1 Stihl Ultra and have never looked back. This is the first time that I have experienced gas/oil separation in over 40 years. This can be dangerous for a saw and cause a lack of proper lubrication if the oil does not provide a homogenous mix of two cycle oil with the gas.
When any Stihl saw yanks back, push it up to half choke before the next pull. Otherwise, you can flood it.
Thanks for the tip!
My ms311 stopped, I assumed it was the carb. Off and on, checking all ports.. after messing with it, I pulled thr muffler.. pulled the cord and it started.. so I checked the muffler.. there is a screen in it that was plugged up.. restricted the air flow out.. its fixed..
Awesome John! That’s called the “Spark Arrestor”
@@DavesSmallEngines now I know... my saws are my money makers...
So I have a chainsaw. It starts but stays running for about 10 seconds. After choking it. It starts then stalls. Take choke off, 10 seconds again and stalls Seals are good piston and rings are good after removing the jug. No scores in cylinder. Has spark, carburetor is fine, fuel is good. Compression release is good. Compression reads about 150lbs. I found the problem though which many repair shops were baffled at and couldn't help me with. Guess what it was? ( And no it wasn't a sheared flywheel key either and gap was good as well and sparkplug new fuel mix was at right ratio)
Could be a few things... what did it turn out to be?!
@@DavesSmallEngines weak magnets on the flywheel and the coils output dropped after I did an induction reading on the plug cable itself while it was running. So I'm probably going to change the flywheel and coil assembly on my 55 Husqvarna
@@Ecksterphono wow! That’s wild. Also, that is a great saw. I have a 50 right now and I love it!
In the description you said its your saw but when you first took the carb off you said you think they might not have used the right fuel. Just wondering whos saw it is yours or somebody else's. But a very good video.
Hi Dan!
Thanks for the comment. It’s my saw. I was gifted the saw from a coworker as it would no longer work!
Thanks for watching!
@@DavesSmallEngines oh ok i got you great eductional video thank you for posting it
given how gummed up that carb was one thing i would've tried and has worked for me before if it doesn't work after cleaning you're probably 99% of the way there and just need a little push so what i do is:
1. load up the tank with "VP Fix It Fuel" (fuel with carb/injector cleaner in it)
2. give it about a teaspoon of fuel down the spark plug hole, and pull start to give it that few seconds of operating RPMs to suck the fix it fuel into the carb as much as possible.
3. let it sit over night.
4. repeat step 2
5. at that point it might just keep running, but if not, attempt to pull start as normal if you can get even a single chug out of it you're on the right track.
6. if pull starting still isn't working assess your confidence in whether it will work and repeat start at step 3 again until such a time you have no faith.
I have my brothers 025 he died 3 years ago the saw hasn't been running in atleast 5 years. I can't get it to get spark I tried everything I eventually bought a new coil and it still doesn't have spark. Does anyone reading this know what else to try?
Hey Frank - check the on/off switch. How are you checking for spark? Let me know, I will help you walk through it.
Check the gap between the magneto to pick up. Not certain but it's about the thickness of a normal business card. 0.0015 (15 thousandths)?
@@scotthsmith8635 .015
I don't think the 170 was ever offered with Easy 2 Start. At least I have never seen one. Pretty sure the 180 was/is. The Easy 2 Start recoil assembly is very different looking.
Yes it is, nice feature. MS180C
The Easy 2 Start units have an "E" at the end of the model number. For example, MS-180C-E.
I wish I could post an image here. Google "Stihl Easy to Start", and click on images.
@@williambray1611 sounds good!
Hey, Dave.
I got some images of a 180 with, and without the E2S system. I did search FB hoping you would have a page up for your shop with the intention to show you the difference in the recoil housings. The E2S housings noticeably stick out more to allow room for the additional parts.
@@williambray1611 hey William - I think I have seen one and have gone hands on. There’s been so many saws! I recall the spring system was charged by the pull cord and fired it over on its own, so to speak.
I'd have checked the pick up filter in the fuel tank first.
Good catch Dave!
New carbs can be the only end result if you have no experience with how carbs work. Aftermarket carbs have issues with their quality and I wish you luck with using them. I never throw away a factory carb as they can ALWAYS be serviced and are built with quality with respect to all the internal borings!
When the carb was first removed all passages and needle should be serviced!
One squirt in spark plug hole is even to much for test as it flooded.
mannn chain was dull.. I think the $15 replacement carb was worth it for sure... I will order one for my 180C too... tnx
Way more than that for an OEM carb here!
@@DavesSmallEngines Yeah, oem pricey, you can buy 4 or 5 aftermarket ones for the same price. If you get lucky, a single aftermarket lasts for years.
why would'nt you check the fuel filter before going directly to the carb..
I might have done that and skipped that step. I can’t recall. I’ve hardly had any issues with fuel filters (the new kind, anyway)