Northampton v Bath - Premiership Final Review - 2023/24
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- Опубліковано 27 вер 2024
- Premiership Rugby Final 2023/24 - Northampton Saints vs Bath Rugby - Match Review: Key Events, Stats & Opinions
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Great game. The pundits need to stop always automatically awarding the man of the match to someone from the winning side because Underhill spent the afternoon smashing people into row z. Phenomenal shift.
Dunno, I'm bias as a saints fan, and Underhill was awesome, but is it impact or quality the award is for? In a 50:50 game a couple of moments made a huge difference.
Sucks to be a forward (Underhill aside) - they usually define the game, and are rarely recognised
@@miccharlie that's a fair point.
Sour taste to win MOTM but your team loses though? I think these awards are to point out the best player on the winning side, the man who made it count and pushed his team to the edge to get the win? Just my thought anyways, totally unbiased from this game. Munster man
@@flipacoin3593If anything i’d expect a Munster fan to be anti Hendy
The fact that everyone also payed tribute to Rob Burrow on the 7th minute showed some class. Even though he was a league player for Leeds.
Classic final, went right to the wire, both teams can be proud of their efforts.
Would like to know why you’re not such an Austin Healey fan Mark? I genuinely believe he’s the best pundit in the rugby world. And I actually think he really has a good sense of humour but not sure everyone sees that
Agreed. I recall not liking him as a player but he's probably my favourite commentator now. Entertaining, insightful, and opens himself up for mockery by the others. I don't always agree with him, but he's makes big calls quickly
most people find him irritating, me included
@@ChrisBrown-or8ky 100% this man. He has good humour with the other tnt commentators and for me he just brings way more insight during the game than any other ex-player
@@kevinwillis6707 yeah I literally said I’ve heard that, so explain why is what I asked
I quite like him as a pundit, he's not afraid to speak his mind but generally being a pundit is hard so I cut most of them some slack.
Watched the entire game - very exciting, tense match. No question though that Obano's tackle was a Red Card - I know that there are fans who continue to question this entire disciplinary process because players get sent off or sin binned for 10 minutes. I just don't get their pov on this - there are ample opportunities throughout the course of a game to deliver a legitimate punishing tackle on an opponent that doesn't result in a card. The Premiership held a minute's silence during this final to honor the memory of Rob Burrow, a Rugby League player who just died from MND. If World Rugby decides to pursue this path whereby a team can replace a player who was sent off after 20 minutes, then the game is essentially discarding the entire notion of player safety.
Thought Bath had the best players in Underhill, Du Toit and Spencer, but Northampton's backline has so many attacking threats and I'm glad they won for their entertainment this season. Next season however, Northampton are losing 4 of their pack, Bath just their fullback.
Yeah and he’s not even their starting full back, it’s usually de glanville but he’s injured. Ludlam, Waller and moon aren’t always starters but yeah it’s a big loss.
I thought the game was a real rugby purists final, had everything you look for in a game of rugby, two quality sides trading points, game went down to the wire, great technical work and a few class tries. However i think the red card really made this game not as good as it could of been, on many occasians Bath were a man short in attack, largely due to them dropping a back rower who would most likely be in the wide channels and would of helped open up scoring, as we saw in the world cup mainly in France vs SA how lethal having your back rowers in the wide channels was. However Bath played amazing despite being a man down and if they'd gone on to win the game it would of been an all time great game. Im still of the opinon that world rugby should go with the 20 min red card option or even elevate to say 30 mins. Still punish the team for their actions but still keep the game competitive. I think most of the rugby public dont have an issue with a red card being a full game, but its the fact that they are given out so often. im unsure of any stats but it feels like its every 2nd or 3rd game a player recieves a red card and in most cases it completley kills the game. Obviosulsy World Rugby wants to keep the game safe and protect players but it seems that there are so many times when a red card has been given and from that point onwards it is very rare for a team to be in the game (BTW im not specifically talking about this Red card just in general)
Was it debeer who said the drop goal was the perfect attack...its undefendable and 3 points everytime...after scoring 5 against england in 99
We (Saints) put in one of our worst performances of the season - But we prevailed. Bath were superb on the day.
Mark finally, covering the most entertaining domestic league in the world
Sounded an amazing game on the radio. Looking forwasrd to watching it on demand.
Players need to focus on tackling lawfully to avoid red carpet cards.
Bath tactics focused on cash tackling which disrupted Saints passing game, thankfully Hendy/Mitchell broke the Bath defence for the winning try.
Courtney sumed the game up well, Saints were below their usual form but found a way to win.
As a neutral I felt gutted for Obano but it was a red, for me in Underhill they have technically, one of the best in the world, they need to tap that vein.
Austin healy doesn't predict TMOs will look at things, he instructs them! TMO is I belive meant to be in isolation from comms, but they listen. There's even a moment during the review of Slighthome's try where you hear the TMO talking to the commentators.
Theres plenty red cards in the urc
The one problem I have with red cards is that a punishment near the end of a game should be the same as at the start of the game.
Doing without a player at the start is not the same as losing him in the last few minutes
Then don’t commit red card offense 😂 rugby is a team sport all the way and playing with 14 means you going to have to work much harder and the whole point of a red card is if you going to commit a red card offense you going to cost your team and chances are you will lose the game, not necessarily but now it’s going to be tough. The idea is next time you going to charge in with a shoulder to the head you’ll think twice, if you don’t learn then your team will keep getting penalised and your team mates will give you sht for making them work harder and you’ll feel like a selfish prick and hopefully you will stop. Now sometimes it’s not intentional, ok that happens tough shts deal with it, same way SA was down to their last hooker for the whole WC they dealt with it.
If you commit a red card offense late in the game ok, you can blame the fact you tired and brain fades happen now your team is being punished but early in the game like 20mins in you have no excuse. Why do you think a yellow card is 10mins sin bin? Why is it not like soccer where nothing happens ? Cause when you look at soccer players have no self respect and no respect for the officials and if you were to behave like that in rugby then fortunately you would get sent off. I’m tired of this nonsense cause y’all are turning rugby into soccer, whining about any reason under the sun if you didn’t win the game instead of saying ok I didn’t perform good enough so on Monday we hitting the deck and we going to work overtime so next game we back with our top game.
That’s the mentality I was taught in rugby, in my school if you even got yellow carded you knew next Tuesday you were going to suffer and run for 3hrs. If we lost on the Saturday but played our best then on Tuesday coach would say ok boys we have some work to do but keep your head high because you gave it all and fact is sometimes in life that’s not enough. Crying about it won’t change the outcome so now let’s get to work. On the other hand even if we won on the Saturday if we made a mock of it and played like garbage being at each other’s throat for the whole game next Tuesday we were going to hit the deck, we’d show up and coach will already tell us you owe me laps and chances are the broncos is already set up and you knew what was coming. I still remember being a stubborn kid and if we didn’t apply core values like working together and discipline then we would run and do push ups. Even during practice you mocking about coach makes you stop everything and you now going to run, I still remember him saying “you want to mess around during practice then fine you will run and learn discipline, on Saturday you won’t know any moves or any rugby but I guarantee at least you’ll be the fittest team out there” and we were. That’s the spirit of rugby improvise adapt overcome not cry about a red card and beg for it to be less of a punishment. Nope, no one told you to commit an infringement so now you watch from the side line while your team works over time. Same way at practice if I make a mock then everyone runs and everyone does push ups because we a team, if you want to win then you must be one unit if one fails then we all fail. If one succeed we all succeed.
@@dreammaker9642 well that’s an essay I’m never gonna read.
But I assume judging from the preview, it would have gone something like rugby is a team sport so the team gets sanctioned (which I completely agree with, that’s how every other penalty works, it’s not just the one player that loses territory), and that a red card should be costly (which I also agree with).
However looking at the reverse of how you decided to interpret my comment, why should a red card at the end of a match have almost no impact on the team since they might only be without a player for a few minutes, hardly a serious punishment.
If you do answer, please keep it to less than a thousand words
@@peadarr if you not going to bother to read it then don’t bother answering.
@@dreammaker9642 mate, you wrote a small novella. How do you honestly expect anyone to read it?
And your first sentence was a straw man that misrepresented my point
@@peadarr no one is forcing you to read 🫡 some people have no difficulty reading more than 5 sentences put together, if you ain’t one of those people then that’s fine but your contribution to the conversation ends here as a result cause if you can’t keep up how can any further input be of any value.
The last try was a worthy winner of the game, could have gone either way right up to the death
saints were well off their game, it wasnt a classic, but it was watchable.
People crying about red cards there’s a simple option you not seeing 🤷♂️ don’t get a red card, it’s not that hard to do.
I think a 20 min red card isnt enough, a 30 min red card would have meant Bath get Obano back with 30 to play, which seems fairer to me…..
The offending player wouldn't be allowed back. It would be a substitute player.
I would say the red card was correct but shouldnt result in a ban. He was bent at the hips and the northhampton player dropped into head on head contact. Again, i still think it was a red card, but nothing more.
Red card again decided the outcome. Over 50% of the game, absolutely nothing happened. Rugby finals being decided by the referee is a terrible look. Sadly the virus is spreading to league
The card didn't decide the outcome. The actions that led to it did.
Yeah whatever mate. They were ahead with 10 minutes ago but sure it decided the game
I'm just not seeing any benefit with the 20 minute red card to be honest.
It's very counter-intuitive because the idea of a red card forces the offending team to adjust their actions, such as their tackle techniques and ensure they focus a lot more on improving their discipline. Having that cut down to 20 minutes doesn't force them to learn, because it's effectively a sin bin that's 20 minutes long instead of 10. Players need to learn the hard way, and a 20 minute red card doesn't do that for them as a favor. I fully accept many want it because it keeps the game competitive; however, the risk of keeping it competitive is the loss of a controlled environment.
I think it's a situation where there's no real clear solution. There's good arguments for and against. I think if you want to force players to learn more harshly, then they should be punished more off the field. I think 20 minutes is better for entertainment purposes
I believe that the offending player can't come back on only a preplacement? Not sure but I think that's how it's going to work.
@@gs8494 They don't come back on. It's just treated like a sin-bin because after 20 minutes, the team is back to a full 15 once a replacement is made.
@@conorcahill5422 I agree with you and I think there is still a place for a permanent red card no replacement serious foul play and bad tackles, for me as much as I believe there was no intent to harm from Obano that should still be a straight red no replacement, there is a grey area for the 20 min red but the game still needs a red for serious offences or teams will game the system.
No, the red card did not ruin the final. Red cards are there for a reason. The game needs to have control, and there was no doubting the fact Obano made an extremely careless and reckless decision in his tackle. It was his ill-fated and poor decision making that 'ruined' the final for his team. Players surely have to be trained week in and week out to know their actions MUST be squeaky clean at all times.
I don't want to talk about it
Such a shame. Bath were on fire but I am a neutral and both teams have been amazing this season.
Sorry Timmy mate, tough finish that one
I was so hopeful
For me people pay good money to watch an even fair game. Not a game that one team is severely hampered. Why not either remove the player from the game, but allow a replacement or do what they do in Rugby League. The referee indicates that the incident will be looked at after the game. Let’s punish the player not the team. And that’s another point a player like Barbeary is removed from the game in the adjustments Bath had to make ruining his Final experience. He possibly missed out on a chance to impress Steve Borthwick to be included in the summer tour squad.
No one seems to mention Juarno Augustus taking that hit and getting up straight away. I genuinely thought, oh big hit, must've missed his head cos it'd have killed him. Augustus must be a beast
I'm definitely watching more english club matches the past couple of years. I find the standard is very high compared to URC.
Also agree with 20min red cards as long as we have standard suspensions that ensure punishment of the player AND teams. Maybe introduce docking table points for reds and yellows. Doesn't mean much in a final but would impact the coaching
Augustus is a beast! Just hope Rassie notices him before England do, although the Boks do have an production line of excellent players to choose from.
Yeah i can't see him getting a boks call up, but he's been a big time player for saints. Thought he went very well v the Leinster loosies in the HC sf
@@ChrisBrown-or8ky I hope he does, but I can't see it happening. The absolute list of players vying for every position in the Bok squad is staggering. URC / EPCR has done us the world of good so thank you (and sorry) for that :)
But yeah, in 2020 before Covid shut down SR, Juarno (Stormers) and Notshe (Sharks) were probably the two best 8's in the entire competition and he has simply gotten better at Saints.
@@Karma-qt4ji I'm a kiwi, mate. I'm gutted these guys aren't playing super rugby, but good in them. Yes, Boks depth is massive ATM. NZ also lots of great players but we can't select half of them
@@ChrisBrown-or8ky Hahahaha, being a cheeky bugger for a bit here, my "thank you (and sorry) for that" seems just as appropriate 🤣🤣🤣
I am a bit confused though, who can't you select and why can't you select them?
The Saints, best stash ever!!
In an age where the intent is to reduce the tacklers height by giving out yellow and red cards, a "red" just isn't the same as what most of us are used to thinking of as red. Basically its been put on a par with punching someone, kicking, eye gouging etc - but the vast majority of the high tackles just aren't that blatantly filthy. Sam Cane's World Cup final red is a classic case in point of this, it was high, but it wasn't really that bad; you can easily argue that Kolisi's hit on Savea was worse because it was head-head at much higher pace.
But setting aside specific examples, if we look at these yellows & reds for high tackles, probably more than half the time, the tackled player doesn't even go off for an HIA! So the punishment is out of step with the consequences of the bad action and is being used purely to try to get technique to change. But look how many red cards are _still_ happening - as a method to make the tackle safer by reducing tackler height - in game sanctions have failed.
And its going to get worse as more and more you see ball carriers leading into tackles with their heads in the middle of the park, not just around the try line - yet they aren't sanctioned at all. Anywho, for all those reasons I think the 20 minute red (as an orange card) is the only justifiable one to use with the current sanctions.
Sam Cane hit Jesse Kriel directly in the head with his upper arm / shoulder; Kolisi wrapped his arms around Ardie's body while Ardie was already being moved by another tackle, and the top of his head hit Ardie in the face.
The protocols, that have been in place for many years now, clearly allow mitigation in the Kolisi tackle as the tackle was legitimate, there was an arguable height adjustment with the other tackle taking place and a lot of the force went through the body. This is not new, so trying to equate the two tackles or even suggest that the Kolisi one was worse, is a non- argument.
Tell you what though, it is going to happen again and the way they referee the tackles in Super Rugby should take the blame. The number of yellow cards we see in SR where in Premier, Top 14, URC, EPCR would be undoubtable red cards is absolutely staggering - no wonder New Zealand came out of the RWC with the worst disciplinary record of any team there. As an example, look at the Chiefs v Waratahs and the "tackle" by Chiefs 11 on Nawaqanitawase (spelling?) - Sonny Bill Williams was red card for an almost identical tackle SEVEN years ago but this guy got a yellow. It's just not taken seriously enough.
@@Karma-qt4ji Gee wizz. "Non - argument" ??? Really. You've just described the mitigation allowed regards the Kolisi tackle... wrapped his arms...being moved by another tackle.
Then you submit the YC to Nanai-Seturo (Chiefs v Waratahs ) implying it should have been a red. However the same mitigation you say was involved in the Kolisi tackle is apparent in the Nanai-Seturo tackle. There is a clear attempt to wrap (you can clearly see his arms) and there is another defender involved. I've just reviewed it this minute from the actual match coverage.
Regards the SBWilliams tackle (assuming it was for NZ v Lions) that was a clear cut shoulder charge despite another defender being involved.
@@clarke1319 The "non-argument" was the similiarity drawn between the tackles by Cane and Kolisi respectively, where no similarity exists; you don't seem to be arguing against that so I am not sure what else I can add here...
As for the Chiefs player.... really? You are right, I *can* clearly see his arms and his left arm is clearly behind the shoulder that makes contact, not to mention the fact that he actually stands up in the tackle. That is leading with the shoulder directly into the head of the ball carrier, with force, and would be 100% red carded in *any* of the other competitions I mentioned.
With both Cane and Nanai-Seturo clearly making shoulder contact directly to the head of the opponent, why are you still comparing it to Kolisi who made shoulder contact with Ardie's arm, wrapped with both arms, hid hit the ball first and lifted into Ardie's head? How is this even a comparison?
If you want to compare those two reds with a Springbok red, search for Thomas du Toit red card - there is an analysis on UA-cam for the red he got against England in 2022. Arm on the leading side tucked behind his body, shoulder into head with force and other arm wrapping. Red card shown (correctly) and banned for 3 weeks - same as Sam Cane I think?
Don't take my word for any of this, just look at how incredibly poor the All Blacks disciplinary record has been in the last 4 or 5 years, including the accolade of being the team with the worst discipline at the RWC. Even from the very first match, the only reason Jordan got a yellow card and not a red card was because Ramos landed on his side. 10 more degrees of tilt and that's a third red card, just like Kurt Lee Arendse v Beauden Barrett.
Again, you simply cannot do these things!
I’m watching this game right now. Red card was rough. Should have been yellow. At least I know how it ends before finishing this game. Ha. Love drop goals.
It was a blatant red card
@@24hr_rugby_jake looked like it hit him under the chin.
It was a red all day, there was no mitigation at all. The rules have been in place for a couple of years now there's no excuse.