See comments on their video, many issues are addressed there. Suspension is adjustable for ride height/clearance, mudguards can be fitted, driving position/height is adjustable too for visibility from cockpit. the description of the hybrid system is a bit vague as to how they get to 35mph, but i infer from it that the stored energy from the human can be used to get there, so the computer must calculate what energy is available from that stored power and apply it to get to 35mph. They haven't thought of everything, but have covered a lot. Edit: contemplating getting one, but with a test ride or hire time currently unavailable, won't be putting a deposit down.
I hadn't seen that, but good to know! I'd also be willing to buy but since I've seen so many flops before production i see no reason to deposit. I'd have to test drive it
I'm a little frustrated that he only discussed the cheapest version since the middle "Green" version hybrid electric/pedal has a top speed of 40 mph (50 mile range and 100 mile range battery option) and the "Red" version (fully electric version) has a top speed of 45 mph/28 mph restricted (40+ mile range). In the U.S. we have a 28 mph restriction for class 3 bikes. My FLX BABYMAKER Sterling Pro is rated at a top speed of 28 mph and will cruise at 23 mph easily, but it's a single speed so going faster goes beyond spinning out at a comfortable pace. I would definitely love to have this rated at 45 mph with a motorcycle license since I have other motorcycles and don't care about paying $30 or so per/yr to get tabs for it. If it works out, maybe I'll order one? Who knows?
Great review and all valid points, especially from an experienced velonaut. It would be great to see more of these vehicles on the roads, especially in the USA. But, let's be honest, there is no cupholder that can fit a MEGAcup, it's too low to the ground to order at the BurgerKing drive-through window and you can't coal-roll any cyclists or Teslas, so the average 'Murican won't be ordering one. That said, it is super cool and a few design tweaks would yield a usable vehicle.
Here in San Diego, ca the 428 wouldn't be a good fet but the Quattro Velo would be a better fit coz it's a bike not all electric for power now the 428 is to low and needs to be a bit higher on the bottom for speed bumps and mud flaps , it's got to be seen at night too so it's a design flaw and color flaw and the back of it need to be seen better for turning indicator so it's all this to get redesigned
@@pedroclaro7822 Easier to get in and out of. Space for luggage. Space for a passenger. Sitting higher up for a better view. Complete weather protection. Higher ground clearance. Narrower.
An interesting concept, the price point is very good for a personal e-vehicle, and as a city commuter, it has a place. I hope he ends up building and putting several real world examples out on the roads.
Props to Graham Brown for this and I wish him luck. To people who say 'it is too narrow/slow for the car lanes', I say: we should gradually phase out such big and energy intensive cars. Let's create networks of streets in cities that are just for velomobiles, scooters, bikes, pedelelecs, etc. Transport is responsible for a huge chunk of climate emissions, and we'd get a long way toward reducing those if we had networks of streets just for vehicles that go 40mph or less.
p.s. Graham if you're reading, I'd love to know specs about the battery system and the internal mechanics. Perhaps the producer of this channel could invite you on for an in depth interview to discuss those things (as well as those issues he raised, e.g. the lack of mudguards on the prototype).
Getting rid of full sized cars will never happen. They're simply too practical and versatile to ignore. Yes, it's annoying when big cars only have the driver in it on a regular basis, but you can't fit a family, a dog or two, or a week's shopping in a vehicles like this. Which means most people have a vehicle like this in addition to their main car. And that's expensive, especially if your partner and/or family want to ride out with you.
I see this as an amazing way to save gas in today's economy think of it like this you buy a cheap small car then only use it to buy groceries and necessities and drive it as little as possible then drive this all other times!
Fenders-mud/splash guards would be a major plus for wet weather or even random stones or dirt being picked up and thrown by the tires. The hood design is nice, but I agree with Saukki. There should be an optional windscreen. As far as the physical dimensions are concerned, the width on the 428 could be trimmed down to 1m or even 90-95 cm, by shortening the suspension arms on the front. Then it should be nearly as narrow as a recumbent trike. If the body on all models were to be raised even 3 inches (about 5 cm) and the seat height raised about 10 cm, then a lot of the issues pointed out could be solved. For the 428, the narrower track wouldn't be detrimental to the stability as it is intended to be the lower speed option. However the 557 and 630 would benefit from the 1.2m width due to their higher speed capabilities. Note: From what I understand, the 630 is full electric. No hybrid drive or option to pedal it. Basically it's an autocycle or 3-wheeled car. While the other two can be classed a e-trikes or pedelecs. I may be way off though. Respectful corrections from the community are welcomed of course. As far as the looks of the vehicle, I thinks it's beautiful. It does have that classic old-timey roadster look to it, as the designer intended. Very retro. I love it. From the few videos I could find, the cabin appeared to be finished with a padded material. Looked more like the interior of a car than the bare CF or fiberglass of a typical velomobile. So probably a lot less boomy and rattly inside. But at the cost of more weight. A final observation. The model numbers, 428, 557, and 630 are referencing the wavelengths of the colors of the Auroras or "Northern lights" in nanometers. Hence their Blue Green and Red options.
Well, I don't know about where you live, but most places have these things called "Roads". Sometimes known as highways, you find all sorts of vehicles on them.
@@another3997 Have a recumbent trike. I ride in the cycle lanes so dont hold up traffic when I can. You ride in the middle of the road? Bet you are popular with motorists.
At 1.2 metres wide, they are probably trying to eliminate rollovers caused by evasive action in a panic situation. The front looks like it could do with a bugatti grille!
Good video. For anyone tempted to put a deposit down with Northen Light, last accounts with Companies House, in October 21 showed a balance of £100 and employees as 'nil'. Buyer beware and all that. At end of the day, there is absolutely no way you could make this for anywhere near the prices listed. I'd say around triple would be closer. Just look at the cost of a quality e-bike and then look at the spec and tech on the 428. Take your wallet and run.
Thanks for taking a look at this, Saukki. I suppose what we are witnessing are the early years of what will be seen as a revolution in the ways we think about personal transportation. It is pretty clear that the internal combustion engine - in automobiles, at least - is on its way out. But, how will things play-out with the newer forms of personal transportation, like velomobiles and electric bikes? One can only guess, at this point. I suspect each area of the world will handle things in its own way, but simplicity and low cost will prevail (bicycles and ebikes).
yes, but it's a disappointement that most electric vehicules are just your regular same car with just ICE engine swapped with electric motors, but an electric motor should allow more freedom of designing a new vehicule unlike an huge ICE
@@zazugeeYou'll notice that several car companies are phasing out certain models because they aren't easily adaptable to electric or hybrid systems. But there are limits to what they can change, either from a practicality viewpoint, or a legal one. The laws concerning motorised vehicle designs are complicated. Small electric quadracycles and e-bikes/trikes are subject to various restrictions too, but aren't a viable alternative to a car for most people.
Yeah sounds like a stretch. Honestly I kinda believe it the way it is right now but they'll have to change things like ground clearance and that will definitely affect aerodynamics, and lower efficiency.
The design of the NLM is pretty nice. I agree. I think the biggest problems are the width and how low it is. Because of the width i wouldn‘t be able to use it as a commuter. On the way there are plenty of obstacles where i have to corner sharp and it’s very closely. And as you said, it will be stuck on speedbumps. But even after that, i am still thinking about buying one and use it as an s-pedelec.
8:05 When you can not pedal, it doesn´t matter, it won´t be labeled as an E-Bike in EU (at least in germany). The 25km/h-versions are just pedal-assist-motor.
Pros: leaf spring suspension; storage in front(ventilation?); steering setup(racecar grips with controls and computer between); outrigger wheels suggests narrower body for reduced drag, rear view camera so less drag from mirrors. Cons: on other video I saw, the chain and cartridge on rear wheel are exposed to elements; needs fenders on wheels… and the rest were discussed already. I’m excited about what’s available in current models, because the door is wide open for something truly amazing with all these great features to arrive. Hopefully built in North America, because the import costs are so high.
Good stuff. Love NLM's look. Leitra also has quite the look. Actually they all look great. The diversity in design from two wheels to four is all very exciting! As long as the pedaling and speed factors are consistent, how can success of HPVs be questionable? Great job Saukki!
It's just like, when there's people saying they create hover bikes and hover cars, but their designs were already realized in 1959, by ZV-6, ZV-7, and ZV-8. Those are small manned tandem rotors (flying car) and quadcopter (hover bike).
Good review - I’m sure it could be made a lot more practical with minimal changes to the design. And if they can sell it for that price - wow! A tilting version would be even cooler.
Cooler, yes, but also heavier. This has all necessities and then some extras. Velomobiles are bareboned vehicles that have almost nothing unnecessary to reduce weight. Adding a tilting mechanism would add at least 8 extra kg. We're talking about a 20% increase in weight... That's a cool idea but not for a vehicle designed to be affordable.
I almost ordered one of these, £2700 is cheap in the velomobile world. I was put off by the size of it, 120x340cm is massive. And I feel it is a bit too slow for the size in traffic. Downhill I'm sure it's very fast. I think the company wants to get people out of cars and onto a much better personal transport. And I wish them luck, and I may still buy one, but I'd like to see it in the flesh and preferably test drive it. They say it's not far off test drivers, and my name is down!! No mudguards may not be a problem given how far the wheels are from the rider.
@@nameberry220 Car drivers will toot at you. It will not be out of anoyance that you holding them up as not able to use cycle lanes, but to say how cool you look.
I love the idea of it and the price is low enough that more people would be willing to try out a velomobile. I also agree that it needs more development. I think this video is just a testing the waters to see what interest there might be out there. Good video . Thanks for the review. I saw. This vechicle some month back and I thought it was a velomobile.
@@dejayrezme8617My point was that the current offerings had had little take up in 40 years or so of being basically the same thing. Optimsed in terms or aero but unstable, unsafe and lacking in luggage space. If you sacrifice a tiny bit of aero and make it look nice, give it crumple zones and storage...Boom.
Like you said, it looks very nice. But, it would not survive one hour in The Netherlands, with that little ground clearance. Speedbumps all over the place. Price is also quite ok.
the price show us one more thing: the rediculously overprice of velomobiles. if you can build a solid 45mph+ trike-like thing with around 3k. there is no real reason why something not motor driven is on the lowest end 1,5x more expensive.
Agreed. But if someone could make a living from making cheap velomobiles, they would be. Hence the price. Someone has to pay for it, either the customer or the manufacturer by reduced income. Could be a game changer if they sell it as a mass produced kit. It's less than half price of some velomobiles. Not a direct like for like equivalent I know, but still price is key to many people. I don't have £9k to spend on a quatrovelo! 3k is realistic if still having issues like parking in a shed/street/driveway.
"if you can build...." but can you? Its now 2023 and have they built and sold any ? The latest documents on Companies House state that NLM is a one man company. I to think it looks great but I don't think it would work for me.
As you said: Everything that closes the gap between open bicycles and fat cars has its legitime place. But I would prefer this vehicle build with a direct bicycle drive train as a velomobile ( ok, the width is a problem on biketrains) or as an fully licensed electric (or pedal-electric car) comparable with renault twizy but more efficient.
@@jakobthoboll2759 How do you get infinite range and high efficiency? I used to work on chain driven bikes a lot. After I got a totally mechanically-free drivetrain chains became super annoying. Imagine zero mechanical maintenance for tens of thousands of km and it doubles as a brake too so also no brake maintenance.
@@difflocktwo The loss of energy in a drivetrain transforming torque to electricity, storing it in a battery and retransforming it to torque is huge. So if I have a bicycle I prefere efficient energy transfer.
I think since leaving the EU they may have been changing the laws on E-bikes and Velomobile assist motors and speeds achieved. They were driving around Manchester back roads that suck so bad. As you say it needs help. I would like to see more versions of E-bikes, Velomobiles and - well just less gas guzzling tractors with a single person in polluting the air.
It needs fat bike wheels too. Rear derailleur and as you said mud guards, windshield and more ground clearance. I believe too that the steering joints should be more thick
Not practical at all. If you have a hybrid drive train, why make it so aerodynamic? Weight doesn’t matter as well. Just put 5x the battery pack in it and make it actually a bit usefull.
How do aerodynamics not matter? How does weight not matter? Both affect efficiency and power usage. Air resistance is a huge obstacle for any vehicle. Weight affects acceleration, braking and cornering, not to mention the difficulties if you need to move the vehicle manually.
The drive system does have benefits. You can put in continuous comfortable input, and store power for when needed. So excellent acceleration. Short hills no problem. Big hills...fingers crossed. And no chain or gears make it simple and no maintenance. Be interesting to know what the weight difference is. Be worth having regenerate braking, especially being so heavy, and great for hilly terrain I assume the delivery bike seen on one of the Fully Charged episode has a similar drive, it seemed quite nippy for a lumbering giant.
It reminds me of the dangerous cigar cars from a century ago, with the (now illegal due to safety) open wheels and the leaf spring suspension. Honestly this thing looks like it has a 50/50 chance of actually coming out. The price is exceptional for what it is, it will very likely be raised if it does come out. There are a lot of intrinsic mechanical issues, the clearance is too low and the chassis will hit the road regularly on hard bumps causing significant damage and abrupt stops. The wheels/axel will be destroyed if they collide with anything at speed. The line of sight is terrible and the rollover protection is below the head, meaning you will hit your head if it rolls over. Also, I wonder if the motor is direct drive or geared. If it is direct drive it won't be able to go up steep hills, even at 1000 watts. If it is geared it will be noisy and not very fast. Considering that it has regen it is likely direct drive. Also, because of regen the motor has to be constantly running when in motion, there is no freewheeling and you have to supply power even downhill unless you are braking. I like the concept and hope they are successful, but there are many areas for improvement.
Here's there answer to the speed question from their website - "E-bikes have an assistance cot off at 15.5mph in the UK, how is the top speed faster than this? The unique series hybrid system in the NLM’s range allows human effort to be stored and deployed when required. If you imagine cycling on a traditional bicycle, even with electrical assistance, there are peaks in terms of required effort. Climbing hills or accelerating being the obvious examples. But with a series hybrid configured cleverly, human effort can be accumulated when demand is relatively low. For example when stationary or travelling down hill. And when braking, this spent energy can be reaccumulated through regenerative braking. But of course, it is even possible to pedal whilst braking, to store extra free energy for your next boosted launch. In addition to this, the aerodynamic drag of the NLM’s is relatively tiny when compared to tradition bicycles, so sustaining relatively high speed even when the “assistance” is turned off is possible. This is how our range differs from the prior art. Other than all of the other advantages listed already.
????? It's good looking but to many faults. Mud guards, viability, size. I can't see it taking over from Velomobiles. I text drove a E-type Jag once. Bloody awful, couldn't see forward because of the long bonnet, and being so low down in the driving seat. Riding one of these around a city would pretty scary. Go and get one, test drive it and tell us what you think.👍
I like your opinion. I think its very good. The ebike looks very nice, but its a shame they did not thought about ground clearance..i think that its also a very vulnerable car/bike..not mention where to park it...maybe its practical when everybody in the world buys it...or at least a velomobile..and forget the car..😀
"too slow for the road, and too wide for the bike paths" yeah. They couldn't decide on one thing. Either make it a narrow velomobile with actually pedal assist, or a full on electrical trike that can drive on what roads at 50 kph at least
First of all, thank you for another interesting video! As you I like the design. It looks like a vintage race car. I wonder if the "see through" plastic in the rain cover lets you look through the front of the bike also🤔? So that you effectively lower the line of sight - perhaps? Do I still prefer the "ever upcoming" Fricar. Yes I do despite too long commuting distance to my job. 58 km so not realistic at all unless I find another job. Which is not realistic either. Sometimes in the summer time I put my foldable E-Bike in the trunk of my car and park the car 8 km away from my job from where I ride the bike. And opposite in the afternoon. I prefer though only to do this when there's no rain 😁 But there's also an option to drive to a nearby little town in Fricar if I buy one, and take the train from there, and finish with 15+ minutes walk to my job. To be continued ...
... continued. I wouldn't mind either form of transport but I would hate to have a Fricar placed at the train station in that little town unless it could be properly locked up indoors at the station.
Its alright, kinda glamorized too much. A little theatrical but still cool. I've been working on my pedal electric velo for about a year. They are the future
Hi Saukki, to me this vehicle looks really cool, and seems to have really good range (but at what speed?). To me the vehicle would be completely unpractical. It is too wide, it has near no ground clearance, it looks very fragile. One of the recommendations I would make to them is to give the vehicle bright mud flaps for its wheels, because they stick out so far, some people would not see them.
I used to own a waw-velomobile, with a modified straight back tail for improved aerodynamics. It didn't have a rear wheel suspension and it was very stiff because of a really low ground clearance for optimizing speed performance. I really recognize the same flaws in this design, it looks like a beautiful fast e-bike/hybrid-velomobile/whatever... But your back will be killing you. The worst part is you'll end up getting stuck on speedbumps, sidewalks, bicyclepaths and end up ruining the bottom of the bicycle. After a couple of 1000km friction will even grinds it way trough kevlar and carbon fiber. It happened to me and my 10.000 euro velomobile. Roads and bicycle lanes aren't build for speed optimized low clearance velomobiles, better ride a heavier sturdy quest or strada with higher ground clearance. Or an old fashioned alleweder. Also, without mud guards and exposed wheels like this, be prepared to clean this thing daily wich will ruin the nice paint fast, and expect sand in your face... Lots of it!
From their web site, as of Nov 11, 2022: "as of June 2022, we have production tooling in place and suppliers ready. " I also wonder if anyone here has successfully registered and insured their over-25mph e-assisted velos to make them street-legal.
12:06 it has a single steering column aligned in the centre which is going to be between the rider's legs. Do you think that is going to cause an issue, especially for tight turns? Although a vehicle that long probably can't do much of a tight turn anyway.
I'm not sure what is more energy efficient. With a velomobile you have to eat extra to compensate for the energy used to power it. It depends on your diet how much energy this costs. If you would charge the battery with solar panels it could be more efficient energy wise. There is an interesting comparison on fietsers dot be that compares fossil car, electric car, ewaw, waw, regular bike and walking. They calculate that depending on diet it can be more efficient to drive the ewaw than the normal waw.
@@TheVelomobileChannel There is also an English version on solar.lowtechmagazine. It's called the-velomobile-high-tech-bike-or-low-tech-car. Maybe that's easier for most people here than the Dutch version.
I think you can come to your own conclusions with some back of the napkin calculations too. Forget efficiency though, people are financially driven, whatever is cheaper wins and food is expensive.
@@arjenhoogcarspel4193 Yes, I found a version there, but it's a social media gong show with no original publication date. Also has many comments, again with no dates concerning when the remarks were contributed. The site is powered by solar, but fails to distinguish today from last year. Because, you know, nothing much changes in a high-tech field like green energy overnight. _Au contraire,_ dates are the single most important metadata stream for the discerning reader who intends not to become captured by the world according to Tech Titan. This recent mass disappearance of original publication dates has caused me to subtract 30 IQ points from my long-term estimate of the potential of human collective intelligence. True brainiacs would not throw that metadata stream under the social media blunderbuss. Edit 1: I finally found the date in the URL: September 2010. My URL bar is short and often clips this portion of the URL because my monitors are set up in portrait mode. I shouldn't have to look there in the first place. Edit 2: Clearly this has been updated, but which parts where updated when, precisely? "A fully equipped machine will cost you at least 5,000 euro (6,700 dollar) - considerably more than what you pay for a good quality bicycle. In the US prices have come down from a level twice as high, since now some of the popular Northern European brands are also produced in the States." The price of memory chip "came down from a level twice as high" continuously for 50 years. Such a claim couldn't be date accurately within half a century.
You did not comment on the leaf type suspension, front and rear? I believe this is the only one with this suspension I have seen. Do you know of any other? I ask because I am thinking of doing my build with suspension like this, at least for the front, I question the strength on the rear (in turns, at speed)
@@TheVelomobileChannel Thank's, I check it out. Titanium for the leaf's is very high tech, very interesting material choice, with serious engineering. A order of magnitude beyond the laminated wooden ski's I am building for leaf construction but it proves the idea can work.
A serious problem is that all of this design took place with MANY better conceived and more practical designs already on sale today. It's not a practical proposition.
That's your opinion, and you're entitled to it. But not everyone would agree. If you start to think objectively about how people travel today, you'll see how badly conceived most vehicles are for individuals, doing short journeys. A ton and a half of car to take you to fetch a loaf of bread from 1 mile away, on urban roads, limited to 20 or 30mph?
I wonder what happens when you run out of battery. With a normal e-assisted bike you can still bike home if it has a chain. But with this one, I think you are stuck. I ride a DF and easily get 200 km's in one ride done and do not face any speed-limits... I love the design though, and seriously studied but agree with all the points Saukki makes.
This has pedals. Also you would have to blindly drain an energy source to end up stuck without energy. You keep tabs on how much you have left and behave accordingly.
@@difflocktwo the saddle in my velomobile is a very ergonomically shaped seat on which I recline. Tiny saddles are for uh racing bikes with two wheels...
Greetings to all !All these Velomobile with a low landing can be used on ideal roads in Europe and it 's not a fact , on the roads of the former USSR it will hang on a speed bump and be hit by a passing car !In Russia and the countries of the former USSR, velomobiles on 4 wheels from a fatbike are needed, which are produced by the Chinese …
I kind of like of concept of this e-bike but iam thinging there is bigger market for things like Leiba XXL which is velo but sametime have huge storage area which can be used to transport secound person.
I assume it's not meant to be a bicycle, pedelec or speed-pedelec. If they want it to go 35 mph (on battery power) they probably intend this to be a light motor vehicle, with registration, insurance and driving license. Which is not really a problem for people who want to get rid of their car. But for that they'd definitely need to add mud guards. I don't think motor vehicles without fenders are allowed anywhere in the EU
There’s no speed limit for human powered vehicles (except that of course you have to follow the traffic rules and speed limits on the road). But in EU there are limits how fast the electric motor can assist. The assist limit on regular e-bike is 25 km/h. And speed limit for speed-pedelec is 45 km/h. But speed pedelec is legally considered almost as a moped, so it needs registration, insurance and drivers licence.
@@TheVelomobileChannel I guess the series hybrid just needs to output the same power you input and then there is no need for speed limits? The battery could just compensate for transmission losses.
Techically that's not human powered vehicle. (It's up to legislators to decide if it's considered as a e-bike or not.) And it would still be slower than the fastest velomobiles out there. (If setup as a 25 km/h e-bike.)
A magical mystery tour in a vehicle that could put an end to the unfortunate rider. I agree with your review Saukki. 1) Ground clearance unacceptable 2) View of the road unacceptable. Long nose and low rider position spells danger. Concealed rider position makes visual communication with traffic difficult. 3) Long wheelbase means wide turning radius. 4) Builder's attention focused on design and zero attention on practical use. 5) Difficult to use freely on city roads since it can't be classified as a bicycle. 6) No mudguards, no good.
Ground clearance is adjustable, so no problem there. View of the road will be better than you think... unless you only ever look 4 feet ahead. Low rider position does not equal danger, I have no problems on my recumbent trike, far fewer than when riding an upright bicycle. People see small dogs and cats in the road. You do know that road markings and potholes are at ground level, but people still see them? Drivers are concealed in cars and trucks, but they manage to communicate with traffic, why should this be different? Indicators and brake lights are a thing. That narrow body and wide front track means the steering can turn the wheels further, lessening the turning circle. Funnily enough, many cars have problems with their large turning circle... but people still buy them. Many people ride their bikes without mudguards, and many bikes have no provision to fit them. But I believe they can be fitted to this.
AS well as riding a recumbent trike and bicycles am an advanced driver and advanced rider. I generally have no issues no matter what I ride or drive, but you are wrong on so many levels, just gonna give you one example: On one occasion, didnt have the flag on the trike resulting in a car from a right side road pulling out infront of me. Why? Because when she looked as she reached the giveway, trike was in her blind spot under her door, if had a flag, she would have seen it. A car also pulled out of a left side road later due to my trike being obsured by parked cars. Now tell me how low rider position does not equal danger or how seeing a cat or dog on the road means the 2 drivers could see me? One thing you don't understand is it doesnt matter if a driver is looking at you, if they not looking for you they will not see you, which also happens to advanced drivers. Whilst looking for hazards we have to consciosly know what we are looking for or could miss them. Have you never heard "Think Bike"?
In the US 45kph (28mph) is legal in most states for e-bikes. But usually only as a "pedal assist", which I'm not sure how this would technically count. Still, its fairly important to me that the bike stays under 1m in width, ideally max 800mm. 1.2m is almost 4ft wide, which is exactly the same width as lots of bike lanes in the US. And if its not 4ft wide, its usually a 5ft (1.5m) bike lane. Thats not to say that this should be illegal. If they want to make it 1.2m wide to handle 35mph (56kph) top speeds, thats fine. In my opinion we should have another e-bike class here in the US that can faster than 28mph like a "class 3", or "45kph pedelec" in europe. Call it a "Class 4". And it could be limited to 37mph (60kph), and not allowed in bike lanes or on cycle paths. I believe there is something similar in Germany, because Canyon's velomobile concept included 2 driving modes. One limited to 25kph for urban areas, for use in bike lanes, and a 2nd mode that goes up to 60kph for suburban and rural roads where there are no bike lanes.
This would be an electric car in Germany. The view from the cockpit and over the shoulder would be my concern as well. But the view over the shoulder is very bad in many velomobiles too. How do you see if someone is overtaking you? Or if you are going on the street, turning right and crossing the bicycle way?
The same way you see things behind and to the side of you in a van... mirrors. I think Germany has had mirrors for some time. I'm surprised you haven't heard of them. 😉
@@another3997This can only come from the dark side of the moon. Where are you from, Texas, Ohio? Who gave you the believe you're living in front of the moon? Americans are so behind the moon, believing being the center of the world. Trying to rule the world, being involved in as many wars as no other country all over the world just to protect your economical or political interests. My sister has been in Ohio for her last year of school, the family asked her if we have TV over here... I'd be astonished if you were able to speak another language not to mention if you ever left your country.
The PodRide is the best commuter velo ever thought up. Everytime a new one comes I think of PodRide and how its so much better and designed with use in mind, not marketing or emotions. I wish PodRide would release one already...
Nice video once again from your side, Saukki......they get more professional looking every time! I would call your channel a best value in the velomobile (and alternative human transport) scene. My opinion about the vehicle itself would not have been as friendly as yours. One can clearly see that its polarizing design (which actually has something) was the major goal. And that's about it! I have rarely seen a personal transport that has been constructed that far away of practicability. It is almost an artpiece to include that many design flaws into one and the same construction. The people involved have obviously never operated anything in this or a similar class of vehicle in every day life situations. It seems to be all about efficiency. Which efficiency are they talking about? I mean just take a look at the aerodynamics (which is an important part of efficiency....). An almost flat design-cluttered nose standing vertically in the wind, front wheels without any wheel wells and mounted way too far away of the body, the open roof acting as a perfect aerobrake ensuring that you never go too fast, an unfaired rear wheel..... How about ground clearance? Hey, designers! Never seen a speed bump? And ridden over one? 1.2 m of width? As Saukki says, how many cycle paths on earth are this wide? And lots of them are designed as two-way traffic so no crossing of two 428s unless the road is wider than 2.5 m. Yeah, why not switching over to single track roads with passing zones like the ones seen in the Scottish highlands.....LOL. 3.4 m long? Hmm, a beast of this length most certainly isn't meant to be used in crowded urban areas (although I believe that this specifically is the planned purpose of its creators). Just imagine finding a parking space in a bike park for ex. in the Netherlands, LOL again, sorry. That long nose sure is cool looking but just isn't that great when you are not using a straight american highway where the next obstacle is visible a mile ahead. At least there is some decent lighting in front. Installed high enough so not most of the lumens are swallowed by the (occasionally) wet asphalt roadsurface. But WHY on earth do the headlights have to be placed on the inner sides of the front wheels, so the driver is guaranteed to be blinded by the glare and reflections at night time. Just switch them to the other (outer) side and, wow, even the curves and bends on the road get enlighted that way. I wonder how long the tail light on this rattling sort of holder will do the job? The turning light are cool to look at but will they be seen or even noticed by other traffic? The list of flaws and misengineering could fill another few pages but I'll stop here. And, people, don't get me wrong on this. It is a cool looking machine but so many of the mentionned flaws have been made a million times before by others that I do not understand why they are repeated over and over again. And besides all that: the drivetrain concept is likely to not fit in any (but perhaps the US) legal vehicle category currently available. I hope Northern Light Motors (amongst other with similar ideas) will make it, but I am afraid they probably won't......we'll see what happens.
@@Northernlightmotors Why I wrote this? Because I know what I am talking about. I have been covering about 150'000 kms in all kinds of velomobiles AND weather conditions during the last 14 years. Yes, I know that the NLM is not a velomobile (or is it meant to be one ?) but aims for a similar goal called efficiency. I have been confronted with almost every point mentionned in my first comment in real life and experienced its negative impacts on efficiency and practicality. Or could you explain WHY the front is standing vertically flat against the wind, why the roof is constructed as an air-scoop, why the front wheels don't have wells or at least a fender or mud guard, why the front lights are installed at these positions, why the turn signals are so discreet, why the rear wheel is unfaired, why the entire thing is so long and wide with that little ground clearance? Because it looks really cool for dragging mainstreet? Because cold, wind, rain, street mud, darkness, other public street-users, urban congestion are non-existent? As mentionned, I deeply hope that the NLM (like other cool designs) will hit the road as soon as possible and proove that my critics are wrong. All kinds of intelligent and promising projects have been presented in the past but close to none of them have ever made it past a professional looking web-site displaying a breath-taking teaser-video, vague specification-sheet, an uncertain production-start date, reservation possibility, crowd-funding button and perhaps a barely working prototype. Welcome to reality, sorry.
Practical? Buy a cargo trike if you want a useful vehicle. This is among the sexiest hot rods ever built. It’s a sports car for the budget minded enthusiast, really. TVR engineers have no real concern for practicality or versatility in the strictest sense. Sexy and exciting will be the primary movers
From their website www.northernlightmotors.com/630-red-e-bike: "The 630 features an interchangeable race ECU unlocking 1kw of assistance up to 45mph making it a speed demon on the track." Notice, 45 mph is "on the track". I am guessing the street version will properly be a speed pedelec with maximum speed of 45 km/h and 500 watts. Not driving on the bicycle path do not matter for that vehicle, as it is too wide for most bicycle paths anyways.
It looks like it may be a good start, on future cars. However I have a bad feeling about it, in its current form. I wouildn't use it around where I live.
Hey =) really enjoyed your review. But I must say, in this state the vehicle doesn't look very useful to me. I think it's not practically enough. Why is this so "inexpensive" compared to a Quattrovelo... I dont understand why... Cheers! :)
Great observations from someone who has a lot of practical experience driving a velomobile in varying weather conditions. I found it very confusing that it spent most of it's time in the demo video, riding on cobbles, slowly. Who cares about a streamliner if you are going to go slowly over cobblestones? They should show it in some high speed downhill stretches, and winding it out on fast twisty sections. I can only guess it's a fussy situation to get in, because they don't show that. Color coding the trim levels is a bad idea. I want my vehicle in my chosen bespoke color. Letting your trim level designate your color or your color designate your trim level is a rookie, hipster move. BTW, the model numbers are also based on the color spectrum frequency of the lightwave, so they've doubled down on the color fixation in a bad way. I'd say the two things it has going for it is big suspension travel (but the ground clearance erased that) and the novel styling. I do wish all alternative vehicle manufactures much success. We need lots of options, and there may just be someone with a 20 mile commute in each direction who doesn't encounter speed bumps along their route and could really enjoy riding in this. I would be interested to hear more about the practicality of series hybrid pedal power and if the efficiency losses as atrocious as you guess they might me, Saukki. I honestly don't know, but I suspect it's a mushy, uninspiring pedaling routine.
You can have any finish you can dream of at an extra cost, but still much less than competing offerings. This is stated in the options area of the website.
From what I've read it is designed for ROAD use and I think they are targeting city commuters as the average speed of a car in London is 7-8mph. As you pointed out visibility and ground clearance are not looking good. Also they only said that it doesn't pay Road Tax, they make no mention of driving license or registration. Nice Idea, poorly thought out.
I like how it looks, but there it stops. I see this as a moped/motor. As it was shorter and narrower with a chain, then it would be in my opinion better. With a both bigger wheels, more power and a bit better construction, I would put this on the road as a car/motor. Else I would go the other way, ad a chain and make it smaller and lighter and sell it as a pedellac/e-bike/velomobile.
Is it that much smaller though? I mean a motorbike is the ultimate 1 person vehicle as a car replacement, arguably a bicycle but obviously the happy medium being a scooter of some sort.. This is really more an exercise in fuel efficiency at best. Especially when you consider how little these things actually carry given the width. I can fit a fridge in my little VW polo. For a vehicle of the similar size to this.
It seems you haven't understood the differences between motorcars and vehicles like this. It also seems you think people that want something like this would want a motorcycle or a bicycle, although they may already have those things... but this isn't like either of those. People that want to eat apples, aren't going to grab a banana.
@@another3997 I understand this might suit a very specific person for very specific journeys yes. I cycle and I drive and sometimes I wish there was a happy medium...but something that takes up almost as much room as a car ?
It is really nice too see them, but I aslo think they are unpractical. Also evey electrical cycle, car or velomobile(light electric vehicle) is more damaging than a normal velomobile or recumbent. So in my opinion is the normal velomobile the best choice if you want to ride to your work or just a further distance. When you ride a velomobile is it also just a habbit to ride these easy riding machines. Because they ride so easy, even when people don't believe you.
As an owner of a non-assisted velomobile, I have realised I'm too fast for the bike path, and occasionally too slow for the main roads. If velomobile lookalike nano-cars (whether licensed or illegal) become common goods, I fear that using bike lanes with ordinary velomobiles will become very difficult due to angry pedestrians and cyclists who assume the velo is a car. So while ordinary e-assist that cuts off at 25 kph may be a good addition to a velomobile, I believe that those who overpower their vehicle with illegal power settings destroy the velomobile's reputation and maybe even its future. Same with nano-cars and intermediate types like the NLM 428.
I literally can not stop thinking about this machine since I first saw it.
Yes we need that kind of vehicles! ... and the price is quite reasonable compared to the s-pedelecs which are from 4000€ up to 8000€!
See comments on their video, many issues are addressed there.
Suspension is adjustable for ride height/clearance, mudguards can be fitted, driving position/height is adjustable too for visibility from cockpit. the description of the hybrid system is a bit vague as to how they get to 35mph, but i infer from it that the stored energy from the human can be used to get there, so the computer must calculate what energy is available from that stored power and apply it to get to 35mph.
They haven't thought of everything, but have covered a lot.
Edit: contemplating getting one, but with a test ride or hire time currently unavailable, won't be putting a deposit down.
I hadn't seen that, but good to know!
I'd also be willing to buy but since I've seen so many flops before production i see no reason to deposit. I'd have to test drive it
I'm a little frustrated that he only discussed the cheapest version since the middle "Green" version hybrid electric/pedal has a top speed of 40 mph (50 mile range and 100 mile range battery option) and the "Red" version (fully electric version) has a top speed of 45 mph/28 mph restricted (40+ mile range). In the U.S. we have a 28 mph restriction for class 3 bikes. My FLX BABYMAKER Sterling Pro is rated at a top speed of 28 mph and will cruise at 23 mph easily, but it's a single speed so going faster goes beyond spinning out at a comfortable pace. I would definitely love to have this rated at 45 mph with a motorcycle license since I have other motorcycles and don't care about paying $30 or so per/yr to get tabs for it. If it works out, maybe I'll order one? Who knows?
@@minneapolis-eric6565 It won't fit in bicycle lanes, but even if it could, I assume you can't use them if classed as a moped
Great review and all valid points, especially from an experienced velonaut. It would be great to see more of these vehicles on the roads, especially in the USA. But, let's be honest, there is no cupholder that can fit a MEGAcup, it's too low to the ground to order at the BurgerKing drive-through window and you can't coal-roll any cyclists or Teslas, so the average 'Murican won't be ordering one. That said, it is super cool and a few design tweaks would yield a usable vehicle.
In a world of $20.00/gallon liquid fuel someone will be breeding a midfat mountain ebike with an Indy car.
Here in San Diego, ca the 428 wouldn't be a good fet but the Quattro Velo would be a better fit coz it's a bike not all electric for power now the 428 is to low and needs to be a bit higher on the bottom for speed bumps and mud flaps , it's got to be seen at night too so it's a design flaw and color flaw and the back of it need to be seen better for turning indicator so it's all this to get redesigned
Ahhhh the typical media fed anti America rhetoric. Cute.
@@Immad1337 I happen to be an “American”, snowflake.
Yes, it needs improvement but it’s a great start.
Aside from the issues pointed out in the comments section and in the video, and the possiblity of this being a scam, it seems great.
It is a great design. I hope they can combine this design with the practicality of something like the podbike or biohybrid.
@@jandersen6802 how are those more practical?
@@pedroclaro7822 Easier to get in and out of. Space for luggage. Space for a passenger. Sitting higher up for a better view. Complete weather protection. Higher ground clearance. Narrower.
Design and price are really nice. Would like to see some on the roads.
An interesting concept, the price point is very good for a personal e-vehicle, and as a city commuter, it has a place. I hope he ends up building and putting several real world examples out on the roads.
Props to Graham Brown for this and I wish him luck. To people who say 'it is too narrow/slow for the car lanes', I say: we should gradually phase out such big and energy intensive cars. Let's create networks of streets in cities that are just for velomobiles, scooters, bikes, pedelelecs, etc.
Transport is responsible for a huge chunk of climate emissions, and we'd get a long way toward reducing those if we had networks of streets just for vehicles that go 40mph or less.
p.s. Graham if you're reading, I'd love to know specs about the battery system and the internal mechanics. Perhaps the producer of this channel could invite you on for an in depth interview to discuss those things (as well as those issues he raised, e.g. the lack of mudguards on the prototype).
Getting rid of full sized cars will never happen. They're simply too practical and versatile to ignore. Yes, it's annoying when big cars only have the driver in it on a regular basis, but you can't fit a family, a dog or two, or a week's shopping in a vehicles like this. Which means most people have a vehicle like this in addition to their main car. And that's expensive, especially if your partner and/or family want to ride out with you.
I see this as an amazing way to save gas in today's economy think of it like this you buy a cheap small car then only use it to buy groceries and necessities and drive it as little as possible then drive this all other times!
Good idea. You gonna pay for it?
Fenders-mud/splash guards would be a major plus for wet weather or even random stones or dirt being picked up and thrown by the tires.
The hood design is nice, but I agree with Saukki. There should be an optional windscreen.
As far as the physical dimensions are concerned, the width on the 428 could be trimmed down to 1m or even 90-95 cm, by shortening the suspension arms on the front. Then it should be nearly as narrow as a recumbent trike. If the body on all models were to be raised even 3 inches (about 5 cm) and the seat height raised about 10 cm, then a lot of the issues pointed out could be solved. For the 428, the narrower track wouldn't be detrimental to the stability as it is intended to be the lower speed option. However the 557 and 630 would benefit from the 1.2m width due to their higher speed capabilities. Note: From what I understand, the 630 is full electric. No hybrid drive or option to pedal it. Basically it's an autocycle or 3-wheeled car. While the other two can be classed a e-trikes or pedelecs. I may be way off though. Respectful corrections from the community are welcomed of course.
As far as the looks of the vehicle, I thinks it's beautiful. It does have that classic old-timey roadster look to it, as the designer intended. Very retro. I love it. From the few videos I could find, the cabin appeared to be finished with a padded material. Looked more like the interior of a car than the bare CF or fiberglass of a typical velomobile. So probably a lot less boomy and rattly inside. But at the cost of more weight.
A final observation. The model numbers, 428, 557, and 630 are referencing the wavelengths of the colors of the Auroras or "Northern lights" in nanometers. Hence their Blue Green and Red options.
looks nice from the side , but aweful from the front
With the Front wheels outside: It look a little bit like the Velayo. The 428 with Chain and I fall in love!
11:50 „I dont know where you can drive with this vehicle“ what a great and deadly comment! How in the world did they concept this ?
Well, I don't know about where you live, but most places have these things called "Roads". Sometimes known as highways, you find all sorts of vehicles on them.
@@another3997 Have a recumbent trike. I ride in the cycle lanes so dont hold up traffic when I can. You ride in the middle of the road? Bet you are popular with motorists.
At 1.2 metres wide, they are probably trying to eliminate rollovers caused by evasive action in a panic situation. The front looks like it could do with a bugatti grille!
Hi Saukki!
Thanks for these video, and for your reaction, analysis ans comments.
Have good rides and continuation.
Forza.
😉👍👌
Good video. For anyone tempted to put a deposit down with Northen Light, last accounts with Companies House, in October 21 showed a balance of £100 and employees as 'nil'. Buyer beware and all that. At end of the day, there is absolutely no way you could make this for anywhere near the prices listed. I'd say around triple would be closer. Just look at the cost of a quality e-bike and then look at the spec and tech on the 428. Take your wallet and run.
Thanks for taking a look at this, Saukki. I suppose what we are witnessing are the early years of what will be seen as a revolution in the ways we think about personal transportation. It is pretty clear that the internal combustion engine - in automobiles, at least - is on its way out. But, how will things play-out with the newer forms of personal transportation, like velomobiles and electric bikes? One can only guess, at this point. I suspect each area of the world will handle things in its own way, but simplicity and low cost will prevail (bicycles and ebikes).
yes, but it's a disappointement that most electric vehicules are just your regular same car with just ICE engine swapped with electric motors, but an electric motor should allow more freedom of designing a new vehicule unlike an huge ICE
@@zazugeeYou'll notice that several car companies are phasing out certain models because they aren't easily adaptable to electric or hybrid systems. But there are limits to what they can change, either from a practicality viewpoint, or a legal one. The laws concerning motorised vehicle designs are complicated. Small electric quadracycles and e-bikes/trikes are subject to various restrictions too, but aren't a viable alternative to a car for most people.
Fantastic...the 428. The Quattrovelo is starting to grow on me as well.
10 amp battery, 1kw motor, 35 mph and 50 miles range according to the website.. I dont think so..
Yeah sounds like a stretch. Honestly I kinda believe it the way it is right now but they'll have to change things like ground clearance and that will definitely affect aerodynamics, and lower efficiency.
That will be 10 Ah, what voltage though? They just give partial specs.
The design of the NLM is pretty nice. I agree. I think the biggest problems are the width and how low it is. Because of the width i wouldn‘t be able to use it as a commuter. On the way there are plenty of obstacles where i have to corner sharp and it’s very closely. And as you said, it will be stuck on speedbumps. But even after that, i am still thinking about buying one and use it as an s-pedelec.
8:05 When you can not pedal, it doesn´t matter, it won´t be labeled as an E-Bike in EU (at least in germany). The 25km/h-versions are just pedal-assist-motor.
Objective commentary... We would all like to see progress in this area.
Pros: leaf spring suspension; storage in front(ventilation?); steering setup(racecar grips with controls and computer between); outrigger wheels suggests narrower body for reduced drag, rear view camera so less drag from mirrors.
Cons: on other video I saw, the chain and cartridge on rear wheel are exposed to elements; needs fenders on wheels… and the rest were discussed already.
I’m excited about what’s available in current models, because the door is wide open for something truly amazing with all these great features to arrive. Hopefully built in North America, because the import costs are so high.
Good stuff. Love NLM's look. Leitra also has quite the look. Actually they all look great. The diversity in design from two wheels to four is all very exciting!
As long as the pedaling and speed factors are consistent, how can success of HPVs be questionable? Great job Saukki!
Great conversation! I love your critique!
It is also quite wide, good luck accessing smaller bikepaths.
You couldn't even access the big ones. My recument trike at 2/3 the width just fits. You will have to ride in the car lane holding up traffic.
It's just like, when there's people saying they create hover bikes and hover cars, but their designs were already realized in 1959, by ZV-6, ZV-7, and ZV-8. Those are small manned tandem rotors (flying car) and quadcopter (hover bike).
Work of art. Buy it to look at.
You can have a good look at it as you work out how to get it off the speedhump.
Good review - I’m sure it could be made a lot more practical with minimal changes to the design. And if they can sell it for that price - wow! A tilting version would be even cooler.
Cooler, yes, but also heavier. This has all necessities and then some extras.
Velomobiles are bareboned vehicles that have almost nothing unnecessary to reduce weight.
Adding a tilting mechanism would add at least 8 extra kg. We're talking about a 20% increase in weight...
That's a cool idea but not for a vehicle designed to be affordable.
It's a good looking concept. Something this simplistic should not be expensive.
I almost ordered one of these, £2700 is cheap in the velomobile world. I was put off by the size of it, 120x340cm is massive. And I feel it is a bit too slow for the size in traffic. Downhill I'm sure it's very fast. I think the company wants to get people out of cars and onto a much better personal transport. And I wish them luck, and I may still buy one, but I'd like to see it in the flesh and preferably test drive it. They say it's not far off test drivers, and my name is down!! No mudguards may not be a problem given how far the wheels are from the rider.
Same. They say mudguards can be fitted if desired. Perhaps they will make it a factory option soon.
Wow, that's seems like a reasonable price.
@@nameberry220 Car drivers will toot at you. It will not be out of anoyance that you holding them up as not able to use cycle lanes, but to say how cool you look.
I love the idea of it and the price is low enough that more people would be willing to try out a velomobile. I also agree that it needs more development. I think this video is just a testing the waters to see what interest there might be out there. Good video . Thanks for the review. I saw. This vechicle some month back and I thought it was a velomobile.
Trouble is this could actually "poison the well" if it isn't improved drastically.
Suspension is adjustable for clearance, so is seat height, mudguards can be fitted. I agree, improvements needed but not drastically so.
@@dejayrezme8617 How so? the well is pretty empty in terms of uptake since the beginning of time.
@@Northernlightmotors Wells traditionally are found or dug.
@@dejayrezme8617My point was that the current offerings had had little take up in 40 years or so of being basically the same thing. Optimsed in terms or aero but unstable, unsafe and lacking in luggage space. If you sacrifice a tiny bit of aero and make it look nice, give it crumple zones and storage...Boom.
Saving costs by leaving some assembly to buyers is a great option.
Absolutely! I would even go farther than that and ship it without wheels, just the axels cuz those are harder to get.
Definitely would like to see many more types of vehicles like that one
Like you said, it looks very nice. But, it would not survive one hour in The Netherlands, with that little ground clearance. Speedbumps all over the place. Price is also quite ok.
No chain noise and maintenance. Serial hybrid is the only way to go.
They're riding that around Manchester! It must have ok ground clearance because our roads are atrocious.
Suspension can be adjusted for clearance.see their replies on their video
the price show us one more thing: the rediculously overprice of velomobiles.
if you can build a solid 45mph+ trike-like thing with around 3k. there is no real reason why something not motor driven is on the lowest end 1,5x more expensive.
Agreed. But if someone could make a living from making cheap velomobiles, they would be. Hence the price. Someone has to pay for it, either the customer or the manufacturer by reduced income.
Could be a game changer if they sell it as a mass produced kit. It's less than half price of some velomobiles. Not a direct like for like equivalent I know, but still price is key to many people. I don't have £9k to spend on a quatrovelo! 3k is realistic if still having issues like parking in a shed/street/driveway.
"if you can build...." but can you? Its now 2023 and have they built and sold any ? The latest documents on Companies House state that NLM is a one man company. I to think it looks great but I don't think it would work for me.
As you said: Everything that closes the gap between open bicycles and fat cars has its legitime place. But I would prefer this vehicle build with a direct bicycle drive train as a velomobile ( ok, the width is a problem on biketrains) or as an fully licensed electric (or pedal-electric car) comparable with renault twizy but more efficient.
Do you enjoy chain noise? Chain maintenance? And multispeed gearing?
@@difflocktwo I prefere chain maintenance and noise to have high efficiency, infinite range and maintenance, I can do on my own.
@@jakobthoboll2759 How do you get infinite range and high efficiency?
I used to work on chain driven bikes a lot. After I got a totally mechanically-free drivetrain chains became super annoying. Imagine zero mechanical maintenance for tens of thousands of km and it doubles as a brake too so also no brake maintenance.
@@difflocktwo The loss of energy in a drivetrain transforming torque to electricity, storing it in a battery and retransforming it to torque is huge. So if I have a bicycle I prefere efficient energy transfer.
@@jakobthoboll2759 Energy from where?
I think since leaving the EU they may have been changing the laws on E-bikes and Velomobile assist motors and speeds achieved. They were driving around Manchester back roads that suck so bad. As you say it needs help. I would like to see more versions of E-bikes, Velomobiles and - well just less gas guzzling tractors with a single person in polluting the air.
It needs fat bike wheels too. Rear derailleur and as you said mud guards, windshield and more ground clearance. I believe too that the steering joints should be more thick
Great Job! Really enjoy your website!
It would fit well in a steampunk movie! ;-)
I could also see a poorly passing motorist, hitting the front wheel that is sticking out but doesn't have much surface area
Very good point! Needs mudguards and big reflectors & lights.
Not practical at all. If you have a hybrid drive train, why make it so aerodynamic?
Weight doesn’t matter as well. Just put 5x the battery pack in it and make it actually a bit usefull.
How do aerodynamics not matter? How does weight not matter? Both affect efficiency and power usage. Air resistance is a huge obstacle for any vehicle. Weight affects acceleration, braking and cornering, not to mention the difficulties if you need to move the vehicle manually.
The drive system does have benefits. You can put in continuous comfortable input, and store power for when needed. So excellent acceleration. Short hills no problem. Big hills...fingers crossed. And no chain or gears make it simple and no maintenance. Be interesting to know what the weight difference is. Be worth having regenerate braking, especially being so heavy, and great for hilly terrain
I assume the delivery bike seen on one of the Fully Charged episode has a similar drive, it seemed quite nippy for a lumbering giant.
Website says it's regenerative
Have a look at the Electrom. Similar drive, but includes single speed chain to rear wheel
It reminds me of the dangerous cigar cars from a century ago, with the (now illegal due to safety) open wheels and the leaf spring suspension. Honestly this thing looks like it has a 50/50 chance of actually coming out. The price is exceptional for what it is, it will very likely be raised if it does come out. There are a lot of intrinsic mechanical issues, the clearance is too low and the chassis will hit the road regularly on hard bumps causing significant damage and abrupt stops. The wheels/axel will be destroyed if they collide with anything at speed. The line of sight is terrible and the rollover protection is below the head, meaning you will hit your head if it rolls over. Also, I wonder if the motor is direct drive or geared. If it is direct drive it won't be able to go up steep hills, even at 1000 watts. If it is geared it will be noisy and not very fast. Considering that it has regen it is likely direct drive. Also, because of regen the motor has to be constantly running when in motion, there is no freewheeling and you have to supply power even downhill unless you are braking.
I like the concept and hope they are successful, but there are many areas for improvement.
Here's there answer to the speed question from their website -
"E-bikes have an assistance cot off at 15.5mph in the UK, how is the top speed faster than this?
The unique series hybrid system in the NLM’s range allows human effort to be stored and deployed when required. If you imagine cycling on a traditional bicycle, even with electrical assistance, there are peaks in terms of required effort. Climbing hills or accelerating being the obvious examples. But with a series hybrid configured cleverly, human effort can be accumulated when demand is relatively low. For example when stationary or travelling down hill. And when braking, this spent energy can be reaccumulated through regenerative braking. But of course, it is even possible to pedal whilst braking, to store extra free energy for your next boosted launch.
In addition to this, the aerodynamic drag of the NLM’s is relatively tiny when compared to tradition bicycles, so sustaining relatively high speed even when the “assistance” is turned off is possible. This is how our range differs from the prior art. Other than all of the other advantages listed already.
Magnifique machine !
Thought It should have fenders and perhaps move the outer lights to the fenders. Looks cool though.
I think its brilliant.
????? It's good looking but to many faults. Mud guards, viability, size. I can't see it taking over from Velomobiles.
I text drove a E-type Jag once. Bloody awful, couldn't see forward because of the long bonnet, and being so low down in the driving seat.
Riding one of these around a city would pretty scary. Go and get one, test drive it and tell us what you think.👍
I like your opinion. I think its very good. The ebike looks very nice, but its a shame they did not thought about ground clearance..i think that its also a very vulnerable car/bike..not mention where to park it...maybe its practical when everybody in the world buys it...or at least a velomobile..and forget the car..😀
"too slow for the road, and too wide for the bike paths" yeah. They couldn't decide on one thing. Either make it a narrow velomobile with actually pedal assist, or a full on electrical trike that can drive on what roads at 50 kph at least
First of all, thank you for another interesting video!
As you I like the design. It looks like a vintage race car. I wonder if the "see through" plastic in the rain cover lets you look through the front of the bike also🤔?
So that you effectively lower the line of sight - perhaps?
Do I still prefer the "ever upcoming" Fricar. Yes I do despite too long commuting distance to my job. 58 km so not realistic at all unless I find another job. Which is not realistic either.
Sometimes in the summer time I put my foldable E-Bike in the trunk of my car and park the car 8 km away from my job from where I ride the bike. And opposite in the afternoon. I prefer though only to do this when there's no rain 😁
But there's also an option to drive to a nearby little town in Fricar if I buy one, and take the train from there, and finish with 15+ minutes walk to my job.
To be continued ...
... continued.
I wouldn't mind either form of transport but I would hate to have a Fricar placed at the train station in that little town unless it could be properly locked up indoors at the station.
Its alright, kinda glamorized too much. A little theatrical but still cool. I've been working on my pedal electric velo for about a year. They are the future
Hi Saukki, to me this vehicle looks really cool, and seems to have really good range (but at what speed?). To me the vehicle would be completely unpractical. It is too wide, it has near no ground clearance, it looks very fragile. One of the recommendations I would make to them is to give the vehicle bright mud flaps for its wheels, because they stick out so far, some people would not see them.
Good point. People will see the body, but might not realize how wide the thing is if they don’t notice the dark colored wheels 🤔
I used to own a waw-velomobile, with a modified straight back tail for improved aerodynamics.
It didn't have a rear wheel suspension and it was very stiff because of a really low ground clearance for optimizing speed performance. I really recognize the same flaws in this design, it looks like a beautiful fast e-bike/hybrid-velomobile/whatever... But your back will be killing you. The worst part is you'll end up getting stuck on speedbumps, sidewalks, bicyclepaths and end up ruining the bottom of the bicycle. After a couple of 1000km friction will even grinds it way trough kevlar and carbon fiber. It happened to me and my 10.000 euro velomobile. Roads and bicycle lanes aren't build for speed optimized low clearance velomobiles, better ride a heavier sturdy quest or strada with higher ground clearance. Or an old fashioned alleweder. Also, without mud guards and exposed wheels like this, be prepared to clean this thing daily wich will ruin the nice paint fast, and expect sand in your face... Lots of it!
From their web site, as of Nov 11, 2022: "as of June 2022, we have production tooling in place and suppliers ready. "
I also wonder if anyone here has successfully registered and insured their over-25mph e-assisted velos to make them street-legal.
I love it
Looks super cool, though appears they have puts looks above functionality.
A Sinclair C5 for the C21?
12:06 it has a single steering column aligned in the centre which is going to be between the rider's legs. Do you think that is going to cause an issue, especially for tight turns? Although a vehicle that long probably can't do much of a tight turn anyway.
I'm not sure what is more energy efficient. With a velomobile you have to eat extra to compensate for the energy used to power it. It depends on your diet how much energy this costs. If you would charge the battery with solar panels it could be more efficient energy wise. There is an interesting comparison on fietsers dot be that compares fossil car, electric car, ewaw, waw, regular bike and walking. They calculate that depending on diet it can be more efficient to drive the ewaw than the normal waw.
Interesting comparison. I have to check it out.
@@TheVelomobileChannel There is also an English version on solar.lowtechmagazine. It's called the-velomobile-high-tech-bike-or-low-tech-car. Maybe that's easier for most people here than the Dutch version.
@@arjenhoogcarspel4193 Thanks!
I think you can come to your own conclusions with some back of the napkin calculations too. Forget efficiency though, people are financially driven, whatever is cheaper wins and food is expensive.
@@arjenhoogcarspel4193 Yes, I found a version there, but it's a social media gong show with no original publication date. Also has many comments, again with no dates concerning when the remarks were contributed.
The site is powered by solar, but fails to distinguish today from last year. Because, you know, nothing much changes in a high-tech field like green energy overnight.
_Au contraire,_ dates are the single most important metadata stream for the discerning reader who intends not to become captured by the world according to Tech Titan.
This recent mass disappearance of original publication dates has caused me to subtract 30 IQ points from my long-term estimate of the potential of human collective intelligence. True brainiacs would not throw that metadata stream under the social media blunderbuss.
Edit 1: I finally found the date in the URL: September 2010. My URL bar is short and often clips this portion of the URL because my monitors are set up in portrait mode. I shouldn't have to look there in the first place.
Edit 2: Clearly this has been updated, but which parts where updated when, precisely?
"A fully equipped machine will cost you at least 5,000 euro (6,700 dollar) - considerably more than what you pay for a good quality bicycle. In the US prices have come down from a level twice as high, since now some of the popular Northern European brands are also produced in the States."
The price of memory chip "came down from a level twice as high" continuously for 50 years. Such a claim couldn't be date accurately within half a century.
You did not comment on the leaf type suspension, front and rear? I believe this is the only one with this suspension I have seen. Do you know of any other? I ask because I am thinking of doing my build with suspension like this, at least for the front, I question the strength on the rear (in turns, at speed)
Check out Azub Ti-Fly.
@@TheVelomobileChannel Thank's, I check it out. Titanium for the leaf's is very high tech, very interesting material choice, with serious engineering. A order of magnitude beyond the laminated wooden ski's I am building for leaf construction but it proves the idea can work.
@@tcm4721 Have a look at the Mosquito wooden trike / velomobile which I think uses wood / glass laminate springs.
This seems more like an enclosed moped. A pedestrian assisted motor, pedal assisted motor. No insurance and license required.
A serious problem is that all of this design took place with MANY better conceived and more practical designs already on sale today.
It's not a practical proposition.
That's your opinion, and you're entitled to it. But not everyone would agree. If you start to think objectively about how people travel today, you'll see how badly conceived most vehicles are for individuals, doing short journeys. A ton and a half of car to take you to fetch a loaf of bread from 1 mile away, on urban roads, limited to 20 or 30mph?
I wonder what happens when you run out of battery. With a normal e-assisted bike you can still bike home if it has a chain. But with this one, I think you are stuck. I ride a DF and easily get 200 km's in one ride done and do not face any speed-limits... I love the design though, and seriously studied but agree with all the points Saukki makes.
This has pedals. Also you would have to blindly drain an energy source to end up stuck without energy. You keep tabs on how much you have left and behave accordingly.
I cannot imagine sitting on a tiny saddle for 200 km.
@@difflocktwo the saddle in my velomobile is a very ergonomically shaped seat on which I recline. Tiny saddles are for uh racing bikes with two wheels...
@@ArjenMeurs You said you ride a DF, diamond frame, for 200 km.
You have to know that in the velomobile world DF means this: www.intercitybike.nl/en/
Ehdit ennen mua tekemään videon xD Skriptiä väsännyt jo toista viikkoa :P
Noniin. Mielenkiintoista kuulla mitä sähköpyöräilijä on mieltä :D
Greetings to all !All these Velomobile with a low landing can be used on ideal roads in Europe and it 's not a fact , on the roads of the former USSR it will hang on a speed bump and be hit by a passing car !In Russia and the countries of the former USSR, velomobiles on 4 wheels from a fatbike are needed, which are produced by the Chinese …
I kind of like of concept of this e-bike but iam thinging there is bigger market for things like Leiba XXL which is velo but sametime have huge storage area which can be used to transport secound person.
I assume it's not meant to be a bicycle, pedelec or speed-pedelec. If they want it to go 35 mph (on battery power) they probably intend this to be a light motor vehicle, with registration, insurance and driving license. Which is not really a problem for people who want to get rid of their car.
But for that they'd definitely need to add mud guards. I don't think motor vehicles without fenders are allowed anywhere in the EU
No mention was made of damping for the suspension - none visible either - that seems to me to be a potential safety concern at speed...
That’s true! No damping on rear wheel is pretty dangerous.
In the specs they say almost nothing , aimed at non techies, just trying to sell it on looks.
in denmark you are allowed on the bikepaths with a speedpedelec
In Finland speed pedelecs and mopeds are allowed only on certain cycle paths, not all.
Cool>practical in most minds
Would love something like this but registered as a moped so you can drive it at higher speeds.
What is the speed limit of velomobiles? You mentioned this vehicle would need registration if it was too fast.
There’s no speed limit for human powered vehicles (except that of course you have to follow the traffic rules and speed limits on the road). But in EU there are limits how fast the electric motor can assist. The assist limit on regular e-bike is 25 km/h. And speed limit for speed-pedelec is 45 km/h. But speed pedelec is legally considered almost as a moped, so it needs registration, insurance and drivers licence.
@@TheVelomobileChannel I guess the series hybrid just needs to output the same power you input and then there is no need for speed limits? The battery could just compensate for transmission losses.
Techically that's not human powered vehicle. (It's up to legislators to decide if it's considered as a e-bike or not.) And it would still be slower than the fastest velomobiles out there. (If setup as a 25 km/h e-bike.)
@@TheVelomobileChannel Can speed pedelec use bicycle lanes?
A magical mystery tour in a vehicle that could put an end to the unfortunate rider. I agree with your review Saukki.
1) Ground clearance unacceptable
2) View of the road unacceptable. Long nose and low rider position spells danger. Concealed rider position makes visual communication with traffic difficult.
3) Long wheelbase means wide turning radius.
4) Builder's attention focused on design and zero attention on practical use.
5) Difficult to use freely on city roads since it can't be classified as a bicycle.
6) No mudguards, no good.
Ground clearance is adjustable, so no problem there. View of the road will be better than you think... unless you only ever look 4 feet ahead. Low rider position does not equal danger, I have no problems on my recumbent trike, far fewer than when riding an upright bicycle. People see small dogs and cats in the road. You do know that road markings and potholes are at ground level, but people still see them? Drivers are concealed in cars and trucks, but they manage to communicate with traffic, why should this be different? Indicators and brake lights are a thing. That narrow body and wide front track means the steering can turn the wheels further, lessening the turning circle. Funnily enough, many cars have problems with their large turning circle... but people still buy them. Many people ride their bikes without mudguards, and many bikes have no provision to fit them. But I believe they can be fitted to this.
AS well as riding a recumbent trike and bicycles am an advanced driver and advanced rider.
I generally have no issues no matter what I ride or drive, but you are wrong on so many levels, just gonna give you one example:
On one occasion, didnt have the flag on the trike resulting in a car from a right side road pulling out infront of me. Why? Because when she looked as she reached the giveway, trike was in her blind spot under her door, if had a flag, she would have seen it. A car also pulled out of a left side road later due to my trike being obsured by parked cars. Now tell me how low rider position does not equal danger or how seeing a cat or dog on the road means the 2 drivers could see me?
One thing you don't understand is it doesnt matter if a driver is looking at you, if they not looking for you they will not see you, which also happens to advanced drivers. Whilst looking for hazards we have to consciosly know what we are looking for or could miss them. Have you never heard "Think Bike"?
In the US 45kph (28mph) is legal in most states for e-bikes. But usually only as a "pedal assist", which I'm not sure how this would technically count. Still, its fairly important to me that the bike stays under 1m in width, ideally max 800mm. 1.2m is almost 4ft wide, which is exactly the same width as lots of bike lanes in the US. And if its not 4ft wide, its usually a 5ft (1.5m) bike lane.
Thats not to say that this should be illegal. If they want to make it 1.2m wide to handle 35mph (56kph) top speeds, thats fine. In my opinion we should have another e-bike class here in the US that can faster than 28mph like a "class 3", or "45kph pedelec" in europe. Call it a "Class 4". And it could be limited to 37mph (60kph), and not allowed in bike lanes or on cycle paths. I believe there is something similar in Germany, because Canyon's velomobile concept included 2 driving modes. One limited to 25kph for urban areas, for use in bike lanes, and a 2nd mode that goes up to 60kph for suburban and rural roads where there are no bike lanes.
This would be an electric car in Germany. The view from the cockpit and over the shoulder would be my concern as well. But the view over the shoulder is very bad in many velomobiles too. How do you see if someone is overtaking you? Or if you are going on the street, turning right and crossing the bicycle way?
The same way you see things behind and to the side of you in a van... mirrors. I think Germany has had mirrors for some time. I'm surprised you haven't heard of them. 😉
@@another3997This can only come from the dark side of the moon. Where are you from, Texas, Ohio? Who gave you the believe you're living in front of the moon? Americans are so behind the moon, believing being the center of the world. Trying to rule the world, being involved in as many wars as no other country all over the world just to protect your economical or political interests. My sister has been in Ohio for her last year of school, the family asked her if we have TV over here... I'd be astonished if you were able to speak another language not to mention if you ever left your country.
@@another3997What a rude person
The PodRide is the best commuter velo ever thought up. Everytime a new one comes I think of PodRide and how its so much better and designed with use in mind, not marketing or emotions. I wish PodRide would release one already...
Podride sure looks promising. Hopefully some day they get it ready for production.
They should make a model with 50kW motor, 200 km/h top speed, 300 km range and under 200 kg.
Maybe add another wheel too.
Where it is said that it has pedals at all?
Nice video once again from your side, Saukki......they get more professional looking every time! I would call your channel a best value in the velomobile (and alternative human transport) scene.
My opinion about the vehicle itself would not have been as friendly as yours.
One can clearly see that its polarizing design (which actually has something) was the major goal. And that's about it!
I have rarely seen a personal transport that has been constructed that far away of practicability. It is almost an artpiece to include that many design flaws into one and the same construction.
The people involved have obviously never operated anything in this or a similar class of vehicle in every day life situations.
It seems to be all about efficiency. Which efficiency are they talking about? I mean just take a look at the aerodynamics (which is an important part of efficiency....). An almost flat design-cluttered nose standing vertically in the wind, front wheels without any wheel wells and mounted way too far away of the body, the open roof acting as a perfect aerobrake ensuring that you never go too fast, an unfaired rear wheel.....
How about ground clearance? Hey, designers! Never seen a speed bump? And ridden over one?
1.2 m of width? As Saukki says, how many cycle paths on earth are this wide? And lots of them are designed as two-way traffic so no crossing of two 428s unless the road is wider than 2.5 m. Yeah, why not switching over to single track roads with passing zones like the ones seen in the Scottish highlands.....LOL.
3.4 m long? Hmm, a beast of this length most certainly isn't meant to be used in crowded urban areas (although I believe that this specifically is the planned purpose of its creators). Just imagine finding a parking space in a bike park for ex. in the Netherlands, LOL again, sorry.
That long nose sure is cool looking but just isn't that great when you are not using a straight american highway where the next obstacle is visible a mile ahead.
At least there is some decent lighting in front. Installed high enough so not most of the lumens are swallowed by the (occasionally) wet asphalt roadsurface. But WHY on earth do the headlights have to be placed on the inner sides of the front wheels, so the driver is guaranteed to be blinded by the glare and reflections at night time. Just switch them to the other (outer) side and, wow, even the curves and bends on the road get enlighted that way.
I wonder how long the tail light on this rattling sort of holder will do the job? The turning light are cool to look at but will they be seen or even noticed by other traffic?
The list of flaws and misengineering could fill another few pages but I'll stop here.
And, people, don't get me wrong on this.
It is a cool looking machine but so many of the mentionned flaws have been made a million times before by others that I do not understand why they are repeated over and over again.
And besides all that:
the drivetrain concept is likely to not fit in any (but perhaps the US) legal vehicle category currently available.
I hope Northern Light Motors (amongst other with similar ideas) will make it, but I am afraid they probably won't......we'll see what happens.
Pretty much everything that you have stated here is complete nonsense. I wonder why you felt compelled to write that?
@@Northernlightmotors
Why I wrote this?
Because I know what I am talking about.
I have been covering about 150'000 kms in all kinds of velomobiles AND weather conditions during the last 14 years.
Yes, I know that the NLM is not a velomobile (or is it meant to be one ?) but aims for a similar goal called efficiency.
I have been confronted with almost every point mentionned in my first comment in real life and experienced its negative impacts on efficiency and practicality.
Or could you explain WHY the front is standing vertically flat against the wind, why the roof is constructed as an air-scoop, why the front wheels don't have wells or at least a fender or mud guard, why the front lights are installed at these positions, why the turn signals are so discreet, why the rear wheel is unfaired, why the entire thing is so long and wide with that little ground clearance?
Because it looks really cool for dragging mainstreet?
Because cold, wind, rain, street mud, darkness, other public street-users, urban congestion are non-existent?
As mentionned, I deeply hope that the NLM (like other cool designs) will hit the road as soon as possible and proove that my critics are wrong.
All kinds of intelligent and promising projects have been presented in the past but close to none of them have ever made it past a professional looking web-site displaying a breath-taking teaser-video, vague specification-sheet, an uncertain production-start date, reservation possibility, crowd-funding button and perhaps a barely working prototype.
Welcome to reality, sorry.
Looks good, but i would rather buy a Milan sl
Good luck finding one for that price!
The problem is the norms that are maintained by the existing infrastructure and laws.
Practical? Buy a cargo trike if you want a useful vehicle. This is among the sexiest hot rods ever built. It’s a sports car for the budget minded enthusiast, really. TVR engineers have no real concern for practicality or versatility in the strictest sense. Sexy and exciting will be the primary movers
looks really nice. :)
bigger tires and the ground clearance and the comfort will improve!
Suspension is adjustable, see their UA-cam comments replies
From their website www.northernlightmotors.com/630-red-e-bike:
"The 630 features an interchangeable race ECU unlocking 1kw of assistance up to 45mph making it a speed demon on the track."
Notice, 45 mph is "on the track". I am guessing the street version will properly be a speed pedelec with maximum speed of 45 km/h and 500 watts.
Not driving on the bicycle path do not matter for that vehicle, as it is too wide for most bicycle paths anyways.
It looks like it may be a good start, on future cars. However I have a bad feeling about it, in its current form. I wouildn't use it around where I live.
Hey =)
really enjoyed your review.
But I must say, in this state the vehicle doesn't look very useful to me. I think it's not practically enough.
Why is this so "inexpensive" compared to a Quattrovelo... I dont understand why...
Cheers! :)
Quatrovelo is €9k, this is (for base model) €3k plus shipping.
Great observations from someone who has a lot of practical experience driving a velomobile in varying weather conditions. I found it very confusing that it spent most of it's time in the demo video, riding on cobbles, slowly. Who cares about a streamliner if you are going to go slowly over cobblestones? They should show it in some high speed downhill stretches, and winding it out on fast twisty sections. I can only guess it's a fussy situation to get in, because they don't show that. Color coding the trim levels is a bad idea. I want my vehicle in my chosen bespoke color. Letting your trim level designate your color or your color designate your trim level is a rookie, hipster move. BTW, the model numbers are also based on the color spectrum frequency of the lightwave, so they've doubled down on the color fixation in a bad way. I'd say the two things it has going for it is big suspension travel (but the ground clearance erased that) and the novel styling. I do wish all alternative vehicle manufactures much success. We need lots of options, and there may just be someone with a 20 mile commute in each direction who doesn't encounter speed bumps along their route and could really enjoy riding in this.
I would be interested to hear more about the practicality of series hybrid pedal power and if the efficiency losses as atrocious as you guess they might me, Saukki. I honestly don't know, but I suspect it's a mushy, uninspiring pedaling routine.
Good points 👍
Full vinyl wraps are available in colour of your choice. Suspension is adjustable for clearance
You can have any finish you can dream of at an extra cost, but still much less than competing offerings. This is stated in the options area of the website.
Just get a velomobile and add an e-motor.
From what I've read it is designed for ROAD use and I think they are targeting city commuters as the average speed of a car in London is 7-8mph.
As you pointed out visibility and ground clearance are not looking good.
Also they only said that it doesn't pay Road Tax, they make no mention of driving license or registration.
Nice Idea, poorly thought out.
Who clicks thumbs down on Saukki´s videos? Someone with very poor taste I suppose.
I like how it looks, but there it stops.
I see this as a moped/motor.
As it was shorter and narrower with a chain, then it would be in my opinion better.
With a both bigger wheels, more power and a bit better construction, I would put this on the road as a car/motor.
Else I would go the other way, ad a chain and make it smaller and lighter and sell it as a pedellac/e-bike/velomobile.
Is it that much smaller though? I mean a motorbike is the ultimate 1 person vehicle as a car replacement, arguably a bicycle but obviously the happy medium being a scooter of some sort.. This is really more an exercise in fuel efficiency at best. Especially when you consider how little these things actually carry given the width. I can fit a fridge in my little VW polo. For a vehicle of the similar size to this.
It seems you haven't understood the differences between motorcars and vehicles like this. It also seems you think people that want something like this would want a motorcycle or a bicycle, although they may already have those things... but this isn't like either of those. People that want to eat apples, aren't going to grab a banana.
@@another3997 I understand this might suit a very specific person for very specific journeys yes. I cycle and I drive and sometimes I wish there was a happy medium...but something that takes up almost as much room as a car ?
It has a 10 speed cassette...
It is really nice too see them, but I aslo think they are unpractical. Also evey electrical cycle, car or velomobile(light electric vehicle) is more damaging than a normal velomobile or recumbent.
So in my opinion is the normal velomobile the best choice if you want to ride to your work or just a further distance. When you ride a velomobile is it also just a habbit to ride these easy riding machines. Because they ride so easy, even when people don't believe you.
I agree. Regular human powered velomobile is much more efficient.
As an owner of a non-assisted velomobile, I have realised I'm too fast for the bike path, and occasionally too slow for the main roads. If velomobile lookalike nano-cars (whether licensed or illegal) become common goods, I fear that using bike lanes with ordinary velomobiles will become very difficult due to angry pedestrians and cyclists who assume the velo is a car.
So while ordinary e-assist that cuts off at 25 kph may be a good addition to a velomobile, I believe that those who overpower their vehicle with illegal power settings destroy the velomobile's reputation and maybe even its future.
Same with nano-cars and intermediate types like the NLM 428.
Good point! 👍
The only way this vehicle is going to get that range is if it's going downhill all the time.
Good comments , it looks like a velayo brother, but its not😉