Why is that circuit breaker tripping when AC running
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- Опубліковано 7 лип 2024
- For those concerned.The garage outlets, the outlets in my office for computers and equipment and the kitchen outlets are all wired with 12GA wiring. Most if not all the wall outlets are also 12 GA the lighting circuits were the exception they are 14GA.
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Initially I thought 15+ A on your AC is quite high but then, I remembered you're on 120 V.
As against that, my AC here in Australia draws around 8 A but we're on 240 V so that makes sense.
The actual wattage consumption is very similar.
...and you're right. Humidity makes ACs run a lot harder usually.
The reason the breaker trips and I did mention this has nothing to do with it running right at 15 amps.
Its it running at 15 amps when it's about 35' in the shop with the blazing sun blasting on the wall directly behind the breaker box. My wife has tripped the oven breaker on hot days baking something. The oven has a 15 amp fuse in it so it isn't drawing more than 15 amps and at random the breaker trips on hot days. Breakers are thermal electromagnetic protection devices. A short circuit will energize the solenoid inside and trip the breaker. Over heating from drawing more current than the breaker is rated will cause the bi-metalic strip to flex and trip the breaker. The thing is external heat will also trip it. Take a bare breaker and heat it with a hair dryer and watch what happens. Gets to trip temp and it pops. This is why its tripping. Running close to trip level will produce heat inside, my car breaker get very warm when car is charging but never trip even though its drawing a 15.4 amps constant (power factor on car 1.0) power factor on ac is not going to be as good as there are electric motors involved. Add a little external heat coming in from the back of the panel and it hits the threshold and bam nuisance trip. 20 amp breaker solves this and the wiring is already 12GA as that is what I had put in when the house was built. I built it, I know what is in the walls. The romex jackets are yellow or red for most. Lighting runs were done in 14ga (white sheath) so absolutely no risk involved. Ok the short 3" jumper from the marette in the panel to the breaker where i added the soffit lights is 14ga, but thats fine because the only 2 things that will ever be on that circuit is the ac in summer, a little heater in winter and. 10 6 watt led bulbs at night. So no, its not overloaded.
I don't think drawing 15A is normal for something designed to plug into a 15A socket. Something has to be wrong with the ac itself. Bad run cap, plugged evap or condenser, something like that.
The unit is new. My guess is that the AC has a low power factor, meaning the reactive power (which is probably what he measured with the inline meter before) is lower than the apparent power.
@@kyoudaiken just because it's new, doesn't mean that it's good.
@@tubesnstuff503 It's normal for high BTU units to pull a lot of power. Mine pulls up to 1300W but I don't have any problems with breakers here cause I live in Germany with 230V on a single phase.
Quality Chinese engineering 🤣
@@kyoudaiken Power factor doesn't matter here. A plug-in unit should draw no more than 12 amps continuously.
That yellow wire nut is a scary situation
The nut itself and the 3 wires hooked in
too much
need to move a few things around my brother
The marette is not holding the wires. They are twisted very tightly and the marette is basically just covering the wires.
You might consider running a 12-gauge wire and installing a 20-amp circuit to the A/C. Most 15 amp circuits use 14 gauge wire which is only rated for 15 amp or less use. You might want to consider a circuit breaker with a HCAR rating which allows a small startup surge for compressors and motors to start.
@@12voltvids So around 10$ CAN is "too expensive? Good luck with insurance if you ever have any issues, they will deny the claim if you put that 20a breaker on a 14ga wire (15a max) circuit.
It is 12. The only 14 is that pigtail coming out of the marette and going to the breaker. I used 10GA for my car charging outlets
@@mxslick5010.00? A new breaker is more like 50
@@12voltvids Where are you located? Here in the US a single pole QO breaker is around $10-15, a double pole is around $25 at any big box store. Even at that, your $50 is still cheaper than the risk factors involved..
Please explain the "risk factor"
The garage is wired with 12/3 which last time I checked is rated 20 amps. In fact most of my house is wired with 12GA some 10 and even 8. The only circuits that are 14GA are lighting circuits. The garage, my office / edit suite, and all the kitchen outlets are 12GA wire. The short jumper from the breaker to the wire nut is 14 as I just threw that on for the outdoor lights when I reconfigured for the car charger. The air conditioner only draws 15 amps and the wire is rated 20 with the exception to about 4" in the panel. The soffit lights are led, 6 watts each and there are 10 of them so 60 watts when they are on. So no, I'm not overloading anything here. Nothing is hot. That wire was 30'c which is cooler then the outside air today.
Good video Dave! I always learn something new from you.
I have a question: what is that wire ended in a triangle shape on the right of the video at 10:29?
The one that got some white paint sprayed on it when they sprayed the garage? Thats actually the garage lights and no it is not tripped.
Would this be the same as a double door freezer somebody plug in a fan in the same area sounds like it would probably blow it as well?
In the country I live in, we can draw 2300w from a normal power socket we have in the wall inside the house.
10A 230V AC.
15A 110V becomes 1725w.
1725w works fine for countries with 230V 240V but not so well for countries with 110v ac.
I'm starting to wonder if this is measured from the factory in 220v 230v ac. and not 110v
My counter top convection oven draws 1800 watts and it runs fine on a 15 amp circuit.
@@12voltvids Sure that it actually draws 1800w? 1800w and 110v will be 16.36A
In 1960 when the voltage was 110 sure, but it has been 120 since the mid 60s. So 1800 wants is 15 amps and that is the maximum it draws, in rush for starting the motor when the heater is running. The heater to sanitize and dry is 1500 watts.
Here in Finland ofc our outlets can handle lot more wattage, as being 230V country and in every home every outlet is atleast behind 10A braker, some outlets are 16A such as the kitchen. Also we have 3 phases in every house/appartment, 3x 230V
Commercial properties such as apartments are fed with 3 phase 120/208. Appliances don't heat as fast on 208 as they do with 240. Residential us single phase 120/240.
Reminds me of when I used to test and review computer power supplies. People don't realize those big 1500W units almost always overdraw a 15A circuit if they're running wide open, regardless of the efficiency rating. I had to wire a 20A dedicated circuit for those. I saw the big ones pull over 16A depending on our line voltage at the time. Hated testing those ones in the summer.
Panasonic made a 104" plasma. It drew 4500 watts @ 240 v. Ya that was a pig Allright
Good idea Dave. Once the new breaker is installed, I'd like to see the temp of the wires. Now I know that the run is not too long but just curious to see if the wire get a little warm. The next step would be to upgrade this run to 12 Ga. Just saying. Keep safe friend.
The wires are not hot at all. 30C under full load, so no problem with heating.
Always good to knew , if we change a breaker we should watch the wire gauge , here were i live 16 amps or 20 amps we can use a 2,5 milimeter wire ,( distance betwin point A and point B must be taken in account ) if more we must use a gauge of 6 milimeters for 32 amps , example ' electric induction kitchen cooker AC"s and heather pumps ! Also important if d"ident happen before it"s wise to inspect caps in the compressor and pressure in the unit, and even the ventilateurs , Cheers from portugal
@@hugovale8070 *mm2, square millimeter. Not diameter. The EU directive for building wiring is something like this (don't quote me on this, just from the top of my head, except the AWG conversion, I had to look that up):
1.5mm2 (AWG 16) up to 13A,
2.5mm2 (AWG 14) up to 20A,
4mm2 (AWG 12) up to 25A,
6mm2 (AWG 10) up zo 32A,
10mm2 (AWG 8) up to 40A
The garage is done in 12GA.
Hey! I have a Sony Handycam CCD-V9 that I can’t get the eject part to open up. The mechanism on the top goes up, but then closes itself back down without popping open the cassette part. Any help on this? Or do you already have a video demonstrating a fix for this? Just watched a crap ton of your videos taking these things apart and learned a lot. Any help is appreciated, thanks!
Toss it out its not worth fixing. Needs dozens if capacitors replaced and they have most likely leaked corrosive crap on the board and damaged it beyond repair.
@@12voltvids Ah man, was hoping for betters news. Everything else works as it should, I was hoping it was just a stuck latch or something!
I like that clip on ammeter. I need to get one. I heard they don't work on two conductor cords. But other than that, it would be great. I already have a plug in ammeter, wattmeter, etc.
You would have to make a test loop for that. Great idea for a video. I'll make that today. THANKS!
I'm under the impression the AC has an issue. I've never had an issue with the a 120 volt 14k BTU AC that wasn't on its own circuit.
Its brand new and is drawing what it is rated. Its just the heat in the panel heated from the sun blasting the other side of the wall. Occasionally when the air compressor kicks in the breaker will trip when its hot out and that is on a different circuit.
Hello dave keep cool greatings from portugal !
How old is the AC and is it dirty. Dirty condenser coil will drive up head pressure and amperage. Well, so can load, it's hot outside. If you have 12 gauge wire less than 100' you can put 20anp breaker in.
Its brand new. Has about 10 hours of use.
these "close to 15a" size portable ACs tend to do this under voltage drop, say it's a hot day and the utility voltage is 115v or lower instead of 120v, nearly anything won't care but ofc the compressor will pull more amps to compensate and with such a marginal design will overamp the breaker.
this is especially a problem if the power company undersized the distribution transformer which they tend to a lot.
since your wire is already 12 Gauge for you the quick fix is just install a tandem (2 in one space) breaker, make it a 20 amp circuit and get rid of the pigtail.
you also say the kill a watt reports 1100w? what does the power factor and VA say? you could also try sticking a capacitor across the outlet if the air conditioner is designed without one (a bit cheap and nasty but it is what it is). it would reduce the voltage drop, amp draw and boost the efficiency a little...
Just installed my new "pyro clean" oven and Induction stove combo by Hanseatic. Three phases of 230 Volts, 400V between phases. Loads nicely balanced between the three phases. Gosh how these stink if you do the first burn in...
That amp draw is unstable and seems too high for even larger 115volt designated a/c units.
When I had my "kill a watt " meter it showed only 1100 watts but the clamp shows higher.
@@12voltvids Weak breaker, inaccurate clamp meter?
Your AC unit should have a tag on it indicating the maximum current draw when it's running full out. How does this number compare to your reading? Sounds to me like 15 amps is too much to pull from a 120 volt outlet. The 12 gauge wiring is good, but I think there's something wrong with the AC unit to begin with, for pulling that much current. Just my two cents
The plug on the cord has a circuit breaker / GFI on it and is marked 15 amps. The reason it trips is not the current draw, it's the current draw plus the fact that the back of the panel is probably 50c just from the sun heating the back side of the wall. I have had other breakers trip on hot days for no reason. The lights in the shop tripped as well on a very hot day when I hit the button to open the garage door (same circuit) or the air compressor kicks in, again on same circuit as lights. Mid day sun is pretty hot here.
15 amp for a portable AC seems excessive. How much BTU does it have? A 9000 BTU unit should not draw much more than 10 amps, a 12000 BTU unit around 12. That breaker is getting way to hot.
12000 btu
@@12voltvids Still on the high side for a 12000 BTU unit in my opinion....
@@12voltvids Just checked a couple of specs. A 12000 BTU unit should draw around 900W-950W for the compressor. The fan is probably less than 100W. So at 120V it should draw no more than 12-13 amps.
I actually have something made in Canada here at home aswell. I have a pair of old Paradigm Monitor 9 speakers. A wonderful sound in them despite their age! Love'em! :D
I have paradigm and psb. Both made in cabada.
Yep, I have the same power bar. We use to use them in TV production
Yup they are great. You can load these to max power and they will not fail, unlike the cheap plastic strips.
We also are going to reach a peak of 32°C tomorrow (Tuesday), followed by a tropical night (not below 20°C) with dew points of over 16° - 20°C. Extremely humid for Germany.
On the west coast of the US and Canada, it's been around 40C since last Thursday, and at night, it barely gets below 18. The hottest days are supposed to be today and tomorrow, then it cools off a little on Wednesday. Just a couple of weeks ago it was raining and cold - the lows at night were 4 or 5, and the furnace was needed at night to keep the house warm. Crazy weather this year. It's not unusual to have a cold snap or a heatwave, but they usually don't follow each other from one extreme to the other so closely!
@@gorak9000 We had a week in June 2019 where it peaked 41.2°C in my city with high dew points. That was rough. I stayed in the office until 22:00 to go home when it was a LITTLE bit cooler. The nights min temp back then was around 28°C. It's in the heart of the Metropolitan region Rhine-Ruhr, very densely populated with lots of industry and ports as well. Yep, we even had a phase of "fall" for a week past month, then it suddenly peaked 31°C again when a low comes closer. Heat and humidity often comes due to an "Omega Block" where the jet stream is pulled up north right over Central Europe. This year, the Omega is more situated East, but sometimes moves back to Central Europe which gives us heat and humidity. Low from the west causes thunderstorms.
Dave just an fyi most breakers are rated for 80% rating eg 15 amp breaker is rated for 12 amp continuous load
Is it 15.9A and 110V?
you run it on 110V AC?
Sure that specifications are not measured in 230v 240v ?
Its 120 not 110. The grid was changed from 110/220 to 120/240 back in the 60s.
Hello. What is the brand and model number of the AC ?
Its a Dero, I reviewed it a few months ago.
have seen that before with AC units with higher BTU ratings that are pushing the current limit on a 120VAC branch circuit. good idea to swap out the 15 amp breaker for a 20. Should be fine with 12 GA wire. would think the CAN electric code is similar to the NEC. if you went to a 30 amp breaker then would need 10GA wire and a heavier receptacle rated for the higher current draw.
It is 12 GA wire.
Hi from the uk
I have no breakers in my house. Not one.
All fuse wire!
When an electronic motor starts, it often draws a lot of current for approx. 0.5 seconds. Same with large transformers.
sure it's not GND. fault?
For a wire mess, spaghetti mess. in the country where I live, this would not have been allowed.
The AC has a GFI plug on it, so no not ground fault.
Dave, *And anyone else in this situation, DO NOT upsize the breaker to 20 amps unless ALL wiring connected to it is 12 gauge. The older wire you have is rated for 60deg C max and will degrade the insulation over time if the load is allowed to approach 20 amps. Also, should you experience a fire ANYWHERE in your shop or house, the fire investigator WILL look closely at the panel, and an oversized breaker will most likely result in you losing insurance or having the damage claim denied, even if that circuit was not the cause.* As for the tripping problem:
That breaker is simply worn out, as shown by the hotspots in the thermal camera image. Replace it with a new 15 amp, make sure the connections are clean and tight, and you'll be good to go. The fraction of an amp over 15 is not reason to upsize.
Also, check the start and run caps in your A/C unit. Weak ones will increase both the running and starting currents, and that will cause a properly sized breaker to trip.
Was going to say, you can't just slap a bigger breaker onto a 14ga wire - the whole point is the breaker is there to protect the wire. The breaker and the wire must be sized accordingly
@@gorak9000 I just saw another reply where Dave evidently did put a 20a breaker on that circuit. Stupid is as stupid does, he needs to stick to electronic repairs (which he is excellent at) and stay away from electrical panels before he starts a fire or kills somebody.
it's a brand new breaker and he said in the video he's running 12 gauge wire to the outlet for the ac unit on a dedicated circuit for it.
That tomorrow reading was F not C. In C the wire temp is only running 25c, so no worries. Its not overloaded and never will be. The breaker is not old, some are but not that one. I already swapped the original 15 for that one as I thought it was the old breaker but this newer one did the same.
my window ac 25 year old draws 4.5 amps
The 32 year old 10000btu panasonic on my production studio draws about 12, but this one is 12000 so I expect more power
Maybe you in the US don't have such strict rules?
Are you thinking about fire safety? The electrics don't look so good.
There is nothing wrong with the wiring and yes it's 12GA wire which is fine for 20 amps not that I am drawing that the AC draws 15 max. The reason it is tripping is external heating by a nuclear furnace that heats the wall up during the day. That external heat plus the fact that it is running just under the trip point eventual trips it. The wires are all separated and not tightly groomed for heat dissipation. A nicely groomed load panel might look nice but it also traps heat in the bundle.The electrician that initially set it up told me that.
20amp circuit for an air conditioner
Calm down, everyone. AWG 14 is equivalent of 2.5mm2. According to the current EU regulations, it is good for up to 20A. If it is good for 20A in Europe, it is good for 20A in Canada and even in the US. Metric Amps and Imperial Amps are equal. Well Chinese Amps, those are different 🙄
I might be wrong, because they changed the EU regulations in about 2009. 20A for 2.5mm2 might be the previous regulation, when 1.5mm2 (AWG 16) was enough for 16A.
But again, if AWG 14 was enough for 20A in 2000, it is enough for 20A in 2024. Just not up to code for new installations.
This place is wired with mostly 12GA wire. The only 14Ga runs are for lighting circuits. The plugs are only 15 amp plug however, and that is why 15A breakers.
No, none use the quick connector on the outlet. They are all wrapped and screwed, and a pigtail is used for all the outlets. The hours was wired by a licensed electrician when it was built. I did some of the work, but it was all inspected. My office for example has 4 15 amp circuits. 2 for the equipment, one for the air and another for lights. 1 15 amp dedicated circuit for 4 40 watt fluorescent bulbs and 4 9 watt LED. all the light on 236 watts max with its own 15 amp circuit LOL. Overkill.
"If it is good for 20A in Europe, it is good for 20A in Canada *and even in the US* " You are wrong, at least in the US. The maximum circuit breaker or fuse allowed by the National Electrical Code (NEC), for wires used in conduit , NM, MC, AC, UF etc. cables on #14 is 15 amps, and #12 is allowed max 20 amps. The ONLY exception is for standalone condensing units used for central A/C systems, then and ONLY then you can use an upsized breaker. (The NEC considers the compressor thermal overload as the overcurrent protection, and the breaker is considered as to protect the wire ONLY from short circuits.) Many decades have proven it to be safe. Now, all that said, the ampacity of the modern conductors commonly used in conduit or part of an NM cable assembly are rated to 90deg C, and the ampacities are higher than what the Code restricts them to.
From a personal perspective, and my own testing, a #14 can do 20 amps and #12 can 25-30 amps without excessive heating, but I don't write the Code but I do have to abide by it. (electrician since 1982)
@@mxslick50 I meant if it's safe for 20A in Europe, it will be safe for 20A everywhere, regardless of the local regulations. But of course, everyone should work an use materials according to the local regulations, otherwhise if something goes wrong, the installer will be blamed, even if the real cause of the issue was completely unrelated.
BTW I think I was wrong, I don't have time to look it up, but 20A for 2.5mm2 was probably the previous EU regulation which has been changed in around 2009. But of course that only affects new installations, if you built a house in 1990 with 2.5mm2 on a 20A circuit, you can leave it like that.
30 amp breaker switch and done😂
What year did your house burn down.
This AC probably has a bad power factor, that's why your other measurement device showed a lower reading. What does the AC manual say about power draw?
It says to run it from a dedicated circuit and not use extension cord.
The other mesaurement device is a Kill-a-watt, which is a proper digital power meter, true-RMS and it measures the power factor and calculates the power accordingly.
@@mrnmrn1 Can't write the first word in the product name for some reason, comment gets deleted immediately cause I'm shadowbanned. LOL
That is a lot of electricity you are using there.
At the sky high prices we pay in the UK your wallet would not be happy.
Hence why so few peole have aircon here, we just have to make do with fans.
Yup, its expensive. About 300 per month when the AC is not running. I just turned it on so I will be hurting next month. I have 2 electric cars, so that takes a good amount of power, but its still about 1/5 the price of buying gas every week.
Breakers trip at 80% of their rated value.
They shouldn't. A circuit breaker rated 15 amps should allow 15 amps draw 24/7. My car for example when charging draws a full 15.4 amps. 3700 watts / 240 Volts 15.4 amps. Yes the breaker gets warm. Never trips. Old car is 3300 watts, so that one 13.75 amps.
a standard-rated breaker (also known as 80%-rated) does not mean it will trip at 80% of the current rating. All properly installed breakers are designed to carry 100% of their current rating for an indefinite period.
@@12voltvids And you are correct. AN 80% rated breaker refers to simply the normal, recommended CONTINUOUS load (A load on more than 3 hours with no change in loading.) 80% is the recommended maximum continuous loading for most circuits to avoid nuisance tripping.
@@12voltvids This is why FPE Federal Pioneer breakers were discontinued. Some wouldn't trip, causing house fires. 15amp breaker is supposed to handle 15amps indefinitely but when calculating a circuit load its not supposed to exceed 80% of the rating of the overcurrent device. Stay away from FPE if they are still being sold.
No FPE breakers here. All square D
The genius that wired my house put the dishwasher and disposal on the same circuit. I know it is a wiring mistake at the dishwasher end as the breakers feed the same 4-wire cable. Black goes to the disposal breaker, and red goes to the dishwasher breaker. That is a "fix it if I ever have to replace the dishwasher" problem, for now I know not to run the disposal and dishwasher at the same time.
That is perfectly legal and it is NOT a mistake. The breaker is feeding each separately with a shared neutral return. Look up "multi wire branch circuit". You can most certainly run both at the same time with no issues.
Thats how my garage is wires as is my office, and kitchen. 2 15 amp circuits shared neutral. Remember this. If you are pulling 15 amps on one side and nothing on the other there will be 15 amps on neutral. Pull 15 amps on 1 side and 10 on the other the neutral will see 5 amps. Pull 15 on each side and neutral has nothing on it. That's how balanced loads work.
just need a 20 amp breaker
Nope, if it is on 14ga wire. BUT IF it is 12ga wire, a 20amp breaker can be installed.