Penn Jillette: Camera Tricks Are Not Magic | Big Think
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- Опубліковано 12 чер 2011
- Camera Tricks Are Not Magic
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PENN JILLETTE:
Penn Jillette is a cultural phenomenon as a solo personality and as half of the world-famous Emmy Award-winning magic duo Penn & Teller. His solo exposure is enormous: from Howard Stern to Glenn Beck to the Op-Ed pages of The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, and the Los Angeles Times. He has appeared on Dancing with the Stars, MTV Cribs, and Chelsea Lately and hosted the NBC game show Identity. As part of Penn & Teller, he has appeared more than twenty times on David Letterman, as well as on several other TV shows, from The Simpsons and Friends to Top Chef and The View. He co-hosts the controversial series Penn & Teller: Bullshit!, which has been nominated for sixteen Emmy Awards. He is currently co host of the Discovery Channel's Penn & Teller Tell a Lie and the author of God, No! and Presto!
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TRANSCRIPT:
Question: Does magic have to be performed live?
Penn Jillette: There are performers who have built their whole career doing magic on TV and can't really perform live at all-don't really have jobs and skills. And people watch those shows and seem to enjoy them. I don't think it's magic. I don't think it's valid and not because they're doing camera tricks which they are, and not because they're using plants, which they are. And not because they're using editing tricks, which they are. The problem is simply that what you've seen on that screen, what you're competing with... I mean, once you've shown "Avatar" on video what does sleight of hand mean? It means nothing.
And you can't keep telling people, "We're not cheating. No honest, we really mean this." What does that matter when your job is to lie? The most amazing trick I could ever do for you is to be from one place to another place instantly and that's done about three times a minute on every TV show, even the news. So I don't think you can do that. Whereas in the theater Teller and I don't have to spend a moment saying: "We're not using camera tricks." Because what we're doing there in that room is following the rules of physics and the rules of time that you've dealt with since birth.
And that makes it bypass a certain kind of intellect that makes it fascinating to me. That's what I think, but there are many people that watch Chris Angel and, go: "Ooh, that's a magic trick." It's not to me but they are, "Ooh it is." So they're not wrong they just, you know, have a different perception of what video does and I do. I mean, there are people that will watch things on Chris's show that to me are crystal clear how they're being done, and they seem to fool people. I mean, if you want a very simple example: if you go out on the street with your camera and you take a deck of cards and you let the person open the cards, shuffle them, clean deck, nothing, reach in, pick out a card, peek at it, put it down, and you say, "Is that the seven of diamonds?"
If you go out on the street in New York and do that for two hours eventually you'll be right. You know, you don't have to do any other cheats other than editing, just pick the time it works. You know, show us the time it works and you've done magic and you don't have to design any of that. So to me that's really clear. Whenever I'm watching TV I have a very real sense that I'm watching different tries of the same thing stuck together. And with that sense in my heart, with my sense in my heart that when you're watching DeNiro do a take that he might have done that 15 times. It's different for me than watching an actor in the theater that i know is going directly into what he's doing now from what he did 10 minutes ago because we were both in the room in realtime. I think it's an entirely different thing but most people don't. - Наука та технологія
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Finally, having Penn's approval that Criss Angel does REALLY use plants and camera tricks makes me feel better.
Geriy To quote a good friend (and fellow magician), "Criss Angel is the Justin Bieber of magic; however we aren't supposed to really bad-mouth any other magician." Honestly, he's okay, but it's obvious that what Penn is saying is true about a lot of made-for-tv magicians. At least David Blaine, on the other hand, shows which stunts are real and which ones are not (out of what he does).
dude the guys shows his tricks in the shows
@@burntburgies9801 Not anymore, and not by the time you wrote this. David Blaine has switched into doing daredevil "tricks" which aren't really tricks, he's doing what Penn may describe as juggling, he puts his life at risk doing stunts that push his body to its absolute limits. He did use plants when he got first to TV but that hasn't been his thing for a long time. Now, I believe there's an interview where Penn says he talks very frequently with David Blaine, and he fully knows what Blaine does, maybe he enjoys what he does or not, but he certainly does not like Blaine's tricks which he did state on that same interview, not because they are not amazing (which they are) but because they are extremely dangerous and if any person tried doing that at home, the'd be risking their lives.
@@doordieace5high david blaine is not human so is he really playing within the rules?
@@draku_desu Those "tricks" are not juggling
If Angel is a good magician then Spielberg must be the greatest magician who ever lived.
based, since 2015
Everyone who can use photoshop decently would be a great magician.
I don't think Penn would disagree with you, LorddGray. I certainly don't. It's not the same kind of magic, but it's certainly _a_ kind of it.
I've always wondered why Criss Angel was considered a magician.
MegaSnake1000 That's not entirely fair. I've seen Criss perform live before he got big. He used to work out of the basement of the old WWF New York restaurant doing closeup magic and it was very good. Once he went on TV, things changed.
MegaSnake1000 I've seen Criss Angel perform live and it was okay. He had a decent bird-pull routine, but other than that it was a bunch of on-stage effect mechanics which were not that impressive.
JKolman1179 Ok, but he's clearly who's being referred to. He uses plants and editing and camera tricks, and his 'magic' is really lame as a result. He's the first magician I can think of where I always am able to figure out how he did it.
+MegaSnake1000
I have been wonder that myself. ;O)
Katalyzt
+anthony smith - so does justin bieber lol - he is not really a musician :P
Is there anybody that doesn't like Penn & Teller? Seriously, I don't see how it would be possible for anybody to dislike them. Such a great guy and fantastic magician.
Macie Jay in two years late but what are you doing here, Macie.
Macie Jay totally agree.
That's just a stupid thing to say. He's libertarian. That means plenty of people don't like him by default.
Wha da quaaaan?! MJ, u lik da magiks?
...The guys who were on the wrong end of his show. PROBABLY have a bit of an issue...
I absolutely love Penn and Teller. I may not agree politically, but their view on magic and art is spot on and I think they're two of the most honorable magicians I know.
I don't agree with them many times, but I understand, and learn from them, and it helps me better define and refine my own views. Why can't politics always be like that all the time?
@@l8rgator Because these two discuss their views, others scream them
commie bastard
Derren Brown showed everybody how you can "just show the time it works" but he told everybody what he was doing. He started off flipping a coin and "making" it land on heads 10 times in a row and then did something even more elaborate. I love mentalism, even when it's explained how it's done it's still amazing.
Derren Brown is great. Penn and Teller love him too
Yesterday i saw Criss Angel on TV, he "magicly" made a cruise ship appear in front of an audience. Im like ...... really? He even made a "random" spectator teleport onto the cruise ship. She is just waving like nothing happened. Its just so silly that it doesnt make it magic anymore. Also he was walking and a "random" again spectator stops him to perform. And he is standing next to a bowl of lobsters and picks up one lobsters that have the spectators chosen card taped on its belly. Makes me frustrated to watch, its obvious its setup.
And 50% of the show is Chris picking up chicks, or some interview with his mom or uncle on why they think hes so awesome.
I love Penn Jillette. I know some people think he's obnoxious and he can be but he has a very good kind hart at the center of everything.
Good to see someone saying real thing.
If you are ever in Las Vegas, and you have the opportunity, go see Penn and Teller's show. They put on a fantastic live show, and to show appreciation for their fans, they hang out in the lobby to take a pick and sign an autograph for every audience member that wants one. Great show, classy performers.
Zotman5 Great post! Penn & Teller are all about the fans!
Where most big name magicians are straight in the limo the second the show is over, Penn & Teller actually hang out with the fans! After all, if it wasn't for the fans, there would be no Penn & Teller.
I could listen to Penn Jillette every day.
Who v
I love the way Penn is proud of not having anyone injured. It honestly is great to know someone cares.
a simple a reasonable part of considering something a "magic trick" is that it has to be able to be performed live in front of an audience
Nah. Definitely in a completely different category like teller said, but still magic imo
Penn Jillette is a brilliant man, and always on point! ^_^
When a magician uses a camera trick even once, he loses all credibility. I was immensely disappointed when David Copperfield used it in his "escape from the exploding building" trick (even though he allegedly only used it then and never again), especially since it was so obvious and cheap - I was a kid when I first saw it, and the very first thought that popped in my head was "how do we know this 'live feed' is really 'live'". At the time I actually refused to believe the obvious- that was the frikking David Copperfield, right? He wouldn't succumb to techniques available to every doofus with a camera, surely? Imagine my disappointment when, years later, I learned that yep, that was the trick. Roll the tape, pretend it's "live". Woo frikking hoo.
This is why I simply cannot enjoy Criss Angel or Blaine or Dynamo. I know it's just a show, I know I'm supposed to be entertained, I know all magic tricks are basically a lie of sorts but... it just feels cheap. I cannot enjoy something if I know anyone can do it - there is no skill in cutting away to actors pretending to be amazed bystanders, or splicing dozens of takes and pretending it was one continuous shot. That's not magic.. that's editing. And if I want to entertain myself while watching video edit tricks, I'll rather watch someone who's really talented at it, like Zach King or the like.
But alot of Copperfield's tricks have not used camera tricks. I've seen him live.
+Justin An Allegedly that was the only time he did. Which makes it even worse... why stake your reputation for a cheap trick?
good comments. I've seen Copperfield, Angel, and other great entertainers live many times. But Lance Burton remains the one who impressed me the most...his close-up tricks were amazing. Let's face it, we all know they're tricks. But it remains good entertainment.
McFly derren brown is another one
McFly Copperfield is all about camera tricks, mirrors, etc. He's all shit and glitter. When I was a kid he was "amazing" but these days he's nothing more than a label/brand.
So many better magician's than him, but sadly he will go down as the best since Houdini.
Penn Jillette is the true Magician
"Penn & Teller are the true Magicians"
ahem...
Ralf Prog They don't have to be paired up to be true magicians. they are great by themselves saying otherwise diminishes their value.
Went to see Penn and Teller at the RIO in Las Vegas, one of the best shows of my life! since a young age I have admired them do shows and to finally see them live!......the icing on the cake though ladies and gents.....................They stick around after the show to take pictures un till everyone has left! that is what makes them real showmen because of the love they have for all the people who travel to see them! some over 6,000 miles. saw Copperfield who once off the stage is not seen again which bugged me and was not keen on the Chris Angel show as seemed very repetitive. But the Penn & Teller show really dazzles you! screw the slots of Vegas...Get to the Rio for these guys!
Omg. I just posted a comment like this. I just saw them last Sat. I have a great picture with Penn. how amazing are they? So down to earth and so real. I raised my hand to go on stage.. He called me. I got so red I put my hand down. He made fun of me hahaha
Also they thanked all the camera guys... The help the ticket holders. Everyone. They are amazing guys. I'm so happy I saw them
I'm going to see them again next month 😁 you should of gone up man!
For some real camera magic, I think I'd rather watch The Avengers than Criss Angel.
I think Doctor Strange was really good when it comes to CGI magic. Poor Potter is very unconvincing now.
Reminds me of that xkcd comic where a guy and a girl are on a first date, and he tells her to think of a number between 1 and 100, guesses it correctly, and he thinks "it only works 1% of the time but when it does it's awesome"
Did Penn just try to tell me that Jackie Chan movies are a "violation of humanity" because Jackie risks his body and gets seriously hurt?
Jackie Chan is still using editing tricks and gimmicks to look like he's doing superhuman things. The fact that he does his own stunts and really knows how to fight doesn't change the fact that it's Hollywood magic. He's not actually decking someone with a ladder or a potted plant, at least not if things go right. What Penn means is he and Teller would never do the bullet catch trick if there was any chance whatsoever of someone ACTUALLY getting shot. By the same merit, Jackie Chan certainly would never do, for instance, a leap in his movies that if he missed it would mean he would actually fall to his death- and he's said things like that in interviews before. It's about not making the audience complicit in the potential for serious harm or death.
Think less about Jackie Chan and more about Evel Knievel in regards to what Penn is putting down here. Also understand that Penn comes from the carnie tradition: what he views as dangerous is much further than your definition for sure. I don't think Penn would have much of a problem with a trapeze act, for example.
jackie chan has never been hurt more than broken bones or cuts
Penn and Teller are the best illusionists around. The only magic show I would ever spend my hard earned cash on. They don't treat their audience like brain damaged gerbils.
"Did somebody say, Angel!?"
"No!"
"Oh..."
I always think thats beautiful. I love knowing Pen and Teller will never be harmed in their performances.
I had front row seats for a Penn and Teller show in Vegas. I loved the show but sitting that close allowed me to figure out a few of the tricks they do. Granted, I have loved magic since I was a child and do understand some of the concepts used in these tricks. It took the mystery out of some of the show. I still loved the show but I wish I had sat a few rows back.
As ever Mr Jillette speaks the truth. Nothing beats the experience of a live magic performance. I'd even go so far as saying the new style of magical performer has already become a ludicrous stereotype.
I have no respect to Criss Angel and Dynamo...staged situations,camera tricks and actors...
However I do respect David Blaine....
+Ade BiH - David Blaines version of magic is... I will bored you for 72 hours lol
Martin Landart - I always feel he is more of a daredevil than anything. People lump him in with magicians, but his major works are things like being in the block of ice.
I admit I have not looked into him much past the boring shit he does that gets all the publicity, the best thing he did was get trolled by Triumph the Insult Comic Dog lol
+clownsec honk You do realize most of those so-called "endurance" feats are just tricks, right?
Michael N - Obviously, but boring as fuck. I don't need to wait 3 days for a shitty punchline that's not even impressive, when others can pull off an amazing feat in 5 minutes.
+Ade BiH Yep. David Blaine did some close up magic on me once and that guy is LEGIT. He hid my card under my watch.
You are being VERY kind. I think "Camera" Magic is worthless and I cringe at the thought that people may actually think what they are doing uses any sort of talent or skill. They should rename it to "Special Effects Tricks" or "Pretend Magic Tricks". As soon as you allow "Camera" tricks (like throwing a blanket over the camera for a while so you can't see anything and then trying to be impressed that something changed), then you might as well do Green Screens and do teleporting, by having someone go from 1 side of the world, to another in 1 second, because of video editing. Once you consider that, I mean you might as well just do all your magic through cartoon animations, so that you have 100% control of what you see.
The worst "TV Camera Magic" trick I saw, was when they put an orange flag with a graphic of a tank on it, in front of the entire camera so that it was basically like saying "close your eyes while I do the magic part", then when they took the blindfold off the camera, there was a tank. The trick they used is even worse! They rolled the camera to a similar looking location, that had a tank. Well, how would you do that in front of an audience? You can't, it isn't magic.
I agree with this so much. I don't really enjoy camera effects, I want to see someone who is performing and really doing a great job entertaining.
Penn is the only celebrity I'd one day wish to just have an evening at a quiet restaurant and talk. Just such an intelligent man, and as is the ONLY atheist I've ever heard that actually makes sense. Not because of what he believes or sees... but because he has true respect for others who have different opinions, and absolutely appreciates different points of views. Always love hearing him. Thanks Mr. Gillette.
Jillette*
+Michael Reynolds Pretty sure there's at least one word missing from that first sentence. That second sentence is also, what? At least you misspelled his name at the end!
Raziel Taung Nazi
Michael Reynolds I wouldn't say the ONLY atheist that makes sense.
Meat Trademark ... well.. I let a year pass. And yup... I still give zero fucks.
Awesome talk, tbh. Makes Criss Angel sound a lot more bogus than even I thought he was.
This is just another reason that Penn and Teller are among my favorite people in the world right now. Right next to James Randi. Very intelligent people who make THE most valid arguments about what they do. The world is a better place for having them in it. I actually remember Penn and Teller doing a show at my elementary school way back when. I didn't appreciate it back then, which is a shame. Wish I could see them again today with the admiration I've formed for them.
I remember one where they had an elephant in the middle of a large parking lot, 10 people lifted up circular drapes to hide it, then dropped it, and it vanished.... after they changed the camera before the reveal. It's so obvious the camera change was pivotal to the "trick" working, and yet many people refuse to believe they'd stoop that low
Has anyone seen Chris Angels floating Shaq trick...............my god it was embarrassing.
HAHAHAHHAHA I watched it thanks for citing it
I caught it.
It was... Hell, I don't know _what_ it was.
Here's something else I'm not sure I understand:
He actually named the show “Criss Angel BeLIEve.”
He capitalized LIE.
Why would he do that? It's almost as if he's making fun of his fans. Like he's saying: "I can lie straight to your face and you'll _still_ believe me, you poor, stupid bastards"
lol first thing that popped in my head. "Criss Angel is who hes talking about"
how bout when he jumped that raptor vehicle over a cliff and appeared in a cage held from a helicopter? that was just pathetic, his editors fucked up major
David Blaine actually does those stunts though. they're feats of endurance/strength
Seem like tricks to me - plenty of stuff online about how they could be done.
+Michael N David Blaine held his breath under water for 17 minutes live filmed. He got a ted talk explaining what he had to do to go through being able to do that. Lots of pain, lots of endurance, and tons of dedication. He is far past doing lame camera tricks.
Stephen Sollod I saw the TED talk, and while it's technically possible I'd still bet on it being a trick. Did you know that Houdini had a very similar trick that he claimed was "real" but was actually a trick?
+Michael N While I wouldn't trust David Blaine further than I can throw a building, his breath holding apparently is real, but was accomplished while breathing pure oxygen in advance and his record has been soundly beaten by freedivers later. The current record apparently is over 22 minutes.
Without pure oxygen exceptional people can do about 11 minutes.
How do you rule out trickery? Oh, he gave a TED talk and said he didn't use a trick so he must be telling the truth.
2024 here. I love that Penn always states his views very clearly, and then equally clearly states you don't have to agree with that view
I completely agreed... up until the end. I am a Buster Keaton Fan as well as a Jackie Chan fan...imho the fact that they got hurt, does not make it better, but it doesn't subtract from the success of trying until they got it right ( the juggler in me speaking). In fact, what I absolutely love about Jackie Chan is that he reveals that it took many tries...and it does not diminish from that idea that it was only done in one take. But I honestly don't want to watch acts that I might see a person get hurt, funny as my own show ( from my past) most the people that watched it wanted to see me get hurt.
I was at the Clearwater Beach building demolition escape Angel did here in FL a while back, and can't speak for his close/street tricks or anything else he didn't show, plus I saw him earlier in the day, casually, where he was fairly "cool" and laid back (though a guest in town, obviously), but the realization that what occurred was an elaborate camera trick - more of a prank or joke, essentially - was so massively disappointing compared to what his marketing portrayed up til then from where we were, it severely lowered my respect for most such performances which I might see on tv by anyone, to the point I just don't bother. That's not a positive addition to the field, I don't think, maybe never a good idea to try even if it's big looking.
The greatest magic trick is making 1080p disappear.
Love all your videos Penn...great career - keep it up!
Well said. Good magic is interesting, GREAT magic is art. Continuing with the analogy: You can have a favourite musician (mine's Elton John), or song, and listen to an album many times over, you'll never NOT like it. But after the 500th time, you're no longer putting it on "repeat". Then after seeing Elton's Live Acoustic (only him) Performance and hearing an improvised version of a favourite song, you gain a new appreciation and perspective on an old favourite.
I like this guy. He is so much smarter then me, but he doesn't seem like he is not better then anyone else.
at least he knows the difference between "then" and "than"
I've always said the best magic trick ever would be if someone could throw a deck of cards in the air and have it land in a perfect house of cards
Exactly! I have been discussing this with numerous magicians. Even Jay Sankey and I have had this discussion on twitter.
Glad to hear you have the same views
I've said exactly this for many years. This is not magic. Seeing someone float across from building to building on tv where the camera carefully does not show the helicopter or crane right above him is NOT magic.
walter white send pizza to the roof at the very 1st shoot :D
Hey Penn go to the joe rogan podcast someday!
Wow great magic trick it worked.
I seem to remember Chris being on a radio show whit Penn back in the day filled with nothing but praise. I suppose this is him licking his wounds after the A&E specials. I personally liked the A&E specials because me and my drunk friends could always figure out how he did his tricks. You know, because even stupid drunk we could figure it out.
How refreshing - getting away from the noise and the distractions and finding intelligent discussion. Thank you, Big Think!
Criss Angel is the Dane Cook of magic.
crankysmurf damn dude that’s like the most wicked burn on here.
In a sense, this is the same thing that happens with modern recorded music. You're seldom hearing one take of any of the instruments or vocals in many genres of music, instead you're hearing up spliced of pieces of all of the best takes of individual song sections, riffs, or even individual notes. Live magic is like live music, it is a performance, and it is interesting because of the potential for it to go wrong.
When I first saw Criss Angel's TV show many years ago I was convinced that he was the greatest magician ever. Then I investigated and it almost ruined my love for magic. I figured ALL magicians cheat. Thank god, Fool Us came out because it restored my love for the art. There are great magicians out there that can sing without Criss Angel's "autotune."
The greatest magic trick I ever saw was when Big Think went from being good enough to have the likes of Penn and Stephen Fry on it, to becoming a mouthpiece for feminists and social justice warriors. I just don't know how they managed to pull that off, it's magic.
+6oodfella Whine me a river.
+6oodfella yes let's not invite people that want to change society to help the marginalized.
Miriam Gross
No, let's not invite those who think marginalization even exists; after all, everyone is equal, all opportunities are evenly distributed to all members of the human species, and anyone who presents any evidence against that is a dirty SJW liberal communist.
+Miriam Gross
I see your point. Let's invite people who use censorship, falsities, misdirection, and outright bigotry to tell other people they aren't strong enough to take care of their own lives. Hmm, sounds like religion to me.
+Fernie Canto That statement would be relevant if SJWs ever actually presented any actual, verifiable, valid, non-falsified evidence, but they don't.
I completely agree. That's why Chris Angel, David Blaine, and now Dynamo are so lame.
David Blaine performs regular close up magic on camera... Criss Angel performs magic for a TV audience there’s a difference. One guy spend his time and effort improving his endurance, slight of hand and misdirection.. the other guy uses video editing l.
I've seen Penn and Teller live - excellent show. When I watch Chris Angel on TV, not only am I not entertained, but clearly most of his stuff doesn't work except from a very specific camera angle.
Penn & Teller are the absolute best. Period. Great performance, comedians, people.
'To me, to them, to herp, derp, durrr...'
What a bunch of bullshit.
What Criss does is not magic, period.
*****
Yeah, but that's kinda cowardly.
I thought that big think is here to challenge stuff, and make you think... big.
Lucitaur
Big Think is still very politically correct. Like TED. I like them both, but you aren't allowed to be ENTIRELY honest. The message is still what he wants to convey, just not the honest emphasis he would normally put on it.
Evan O'Hara
If they are going to be politically correct, they should rename their channel to just 'think'.
Criss Angel, David Copperfield - Illusionists. That apparently have shiteloads of money or else are funded by agencies so they can pull of their high - tech, high profile stuff.
he tweeted me back today!!!!
I live in Vegas and seen Criss do random upclose magic and his show. His show is so-so, but the upclose stuff is amazing.
Penn and Teller's show is awesome
I've only seen one magician live, and that is Ed Alonzo. Even though he presents his act as more a a comedy-magic hybrid, I was far more impressed with his show than any that I have seen on TV.
He's right ya know.... but you cant say Criss isnt a magician... he does have sleight of hand skills.. but Camera tricks are like a disgrace to me...
Just an FYI it's spelled slight.
Richard Roberts FYI it's sleight which means cunning or dexterous, not slight which means small. Grammar Nazi impaled on his own uneducated bayonet.
Chris Whitman Calm down fella. OK so I was wrong. I thought I was right and I thought I'd correct it in a pleasant way. I'm learning myself and I've been corrected. By the way I'm not uneducated, although I do have a learning disability. I just don't know everything about everything.
Sleight... I should know, Im a magician .-. xD
GamerXian I am very sorry. Good luck with the magic.
Burned Chris A and David B.
Mixey which tricks was TV tricks from David Blaine sorry I just started doing and researching magic
David B does real illusions though and not camera tricks. There is a big difference!
This is untrue
David Blaine does do Camera Tricks. His levitation trick, in one of his early videos was a camera trick.
yesss
Penn is a great addition to this channel, very insightful
I love Penn and Teller. They are such a class act, and teally classy guys individually. I would live to see them in Vegas next time I'm out there!
I get criss angel, but can someone explain how david blaine is bullshit? Seems legit to me. Examples?
David Blaine isn't bullshit however the thing about magic on camera is if you mess up a move, as David does more often than most magicians that perform live, you can just pan the camera to a different angle so no one sees that you've messed up the move. So it's not bullshit it's just he isn't as talented at slight of hand as a lot of other magicians
they all do editing. criss, dynamo, blaine. there are videos exposing them.
sitting in a box isn't magic
andyt2k
Care to elaborate?
Dan Cosme david blaine sat in a box as a trick, that's not magic
What Penn said "show us the time it works" is the same with faith healers. They pick and choose what they show on their religious shows and just show the time "God" performs a miracle and heals them. Of course it is total bull shit, but the same principle for this type of magic can be used for religion, faith healers, psychics, all non reason, non science bull shit.
I believe personally that it doesn’t matter if it’s fake, real, poorly made, whatever.
I just love when someone is able to put everything aside to entertain a crowd.
The whole time while he was talking about camera tricks not being magic I was thinking, "yeah Criss Angel does suck." Im so glad he named him by name. Good on you Penn
Derren Brown is another example of someone who substitutes simply lying (about the things magicians are supposed to be honest about) for actual skill. His mind control tricks are absolutely pathetic. He simply brings in a stooge and has them pretend that he's influencing their thoughts.
As a magician, I must disagree. It is an urban myth that magicians use stooges, that is hardly the case. Some do, like Criss Angel and sometimes Blaine but Derren Brown (as far as I am aware) does not use stooges or planted actors to that extent. I think he did once but apologised years later for it. But as I say, stooges are uncommon!
Stooges are very common in magic and are often used by such magicians as Criss Angel and sometimes David Blaine. But in order to make people think this is untrue, magicians often go on public forums and say that it is an "urban myth."
Guy Booth, I said Derren Brown uses stooges. Not all magicians. Pay attention and make honest replies.
EGarrett01 Obviously I don't know if Derren does or does not. All I was saying was that it is uncommon which is why I doubt Derren does.
Watch his video where he puts the guy into the "zombie video game." He literally touches the guy's forehead and the guy "passes out into a trance." It's fucking embarrassing.
If Penn can explain David Blaine's ice-pick through the hand/arm tricks...or possibly do them, I'd consider his word credible. But until then, he sounds like a washed-up Vegas performer who's clinging to that 15th minute.
He's had several TV shows, He turned Johnathan Ross into Vanna White, and he has his own theatre in Vegas. All of this accomplished without claiming he has supernatural powers.
David Blaine sits in a refrigerator for a week and neglects to tell you that he took bathroom breaks every hour. Yeah, he's a real wizard.
You do realize that Penn & Teller are MUCH more successful magicians than David Blaine, right?
Rex Batt Yes, right...and Blaine is much more successful as an illusionist.
It sounds no different to the Penn and teller stunt of teller stabbing the knife through Penn's hand to pick the card. Not too sure if he's ever explained it.
There is no magic needed, it is like sword swallowing, he just does that. He did that multiple times so the tissue is like a scar, no veins inside. Might use some artificial skin but there are magicians through the history who did piercing tricks before, so why bother faking it when it can be done for real?
The thing is, I think with things like that that are of a physical nature, it really doesn't involve illusion so much as it is technique. One of the best examples is when you see people who walk on hot coals. If you try to run or power walk on the coals, thinking you can avoid injury be clearing them fast, you would get burned pretty good because of how much pressure your putting on the coals. Walking calmly over them doesn't apply as much weight so you are not pushing into the coals.
I always knew there was a reason I like Penn. I'm a theater person, and people are always astounded when I say that I'm no enamored with Movies. It's for exactly the same reason as Penn has said- it's easy to do an emotionally taxing scene 50 times, and get ONE good take. It's also easy to memorize lines when you're only going to be doing that scene one day. I mainly like movies for their stories. I'm not saying that all movie actors are crap. Thanks, Penn
I've sat and watch Chris Angel and noticed thinking to myself, "So what, that's just a camera edit, this isn't magic, it's just a movie effect."
@SubconsciousGatherer Penn once said: "the biggest break through done in our lifetime was David Blaine's 'Street Magic,' where his idea was to do really simple tricks but to concentrate... to turn the camera around on the people watching instead of the people doing. So to make the audience watch the audience, which that first special 'Street Magic,' is the best TV magic special ever done and really, really does break new ground."
The best live magic performer is Teller. If you look at the tricks he does on his own, You know you are being tricked but you know he has skills.
The only time I've ever tried to do a magic trick I asked my friend to think of a number between one and ten, I then picked a random card from a deck and was the number he was thinking of.
Complete chance but it blew his mind.
But......... you're Jesus. So it doesn't count, talk about christ privilege.
Derren brown did a series showing how a lot of this stuff was done, in one trick he flipped a coin and had it come up heads 10 times in a row, and it looked like it was the first go, but he showed that actually it took close to 10 hours and they just showed the 1 take where it worked. He did another one where he said he could predict horse races and all he did was make different predictions to loads of different people while making them think they were the only one until he got a run of correct predictions.
I believe film is magic. And misdirection in film is powerful indeed. Simply, two words sum up a rebuttal: George Melies.
Stage magic or close up magic and visual storytelling build on the same fundamental process: Control of Perspective. Every shot and edit point is a director, camerman, and editor choosing what your viewpoint will be. It is much more difficult to control the viewer's eye in real life, but that is the crux of magic. Many directors and people in film and TV have some background in magic. Of course, unless you can recognize it in them and call them on it, they almost never reveal it.
I agree, Penn. Magicians that rely on camera tricks are no more magicians than an actor is a fighter just because he beats people up in movies. Now that magic is known openly as 'slight of hand' and 'illusions' and 'technique' as opposed to magic, it seems more impressive to me.
Usually it involves slight of hand or illusion, take for example Penn&Teller's saw-blade trick, they make you see the basic trick, lady gets in a box, saw goes through, lady is OK. Then they show you what is "actually happening" behind the trick, and use a fake part of her body, and saw it in half, and go all crazy and act like she was just killed. You only see one lady enter the box, but there is in fact another one in the second box acting for her feet.
I loved your "is that the 7 of diamonds" example you gave because recently I watched a video of Jibreezy where he put what looked like red foam balls in the hands of people in the street and asked them to name an animal. I would have named a praying mantis probably but in the 3 examples the people named, then discovered, a dog shaped red foam when opening their hands...
He makes a good point about people having different perceptions of what's "good" magic. Stuff that seems obvious to Penn is bewildering magic to me, in the same way that "tricks" with a tennis ball that seem obvious to me, must be like bewildering magic to my dog.
Woo! LIVE performance!
That says a lot about his character regarding no one has ever gotten injured.
I'm pretty sure that the first people I saw pretending to be really hurt by a trick, were Penn and Teller!
I couldn't agree more with Penn. But Criss Angel now has the best selling live magic show in the world, so yes he can now do everything he did on tv, LIVE. That includes sawing a woman in half w/ no boxes or cloths, levitating 5 feet from the audience, instant vanishes, world record metamorphosis, etc. I'm really interested to hear Penn's thoughts on Criss Angel NOW.
The thing is, a stage is different from the street. Angel's street shows were literally impossible most of the time. But his stage show makes a lot more sense. It's hard to explain
Derren Brown is a mentalist and actually either Penn or one of the guys on his podcast said they like him a fair bit.
I used to be obsessed with his NLP videos awhile back.
I love this guy, he's so nice
It's not that people have a different perception of video than him, it's just that he has a knowledge of magic that hardly anyone has. I think he knew this, but was just being polite.
He makes a valid point, but there are plenty of camera tricks that could be portrayed as "magic", or more accurately, illusions. Technically, Penn and Teller and illusionists, not magicians. I agree that using TV editing and crafty camera positioning can really kill the "magic" of a trick, but, there are some truly amazing performances that work just fine on camera as long as you keep the *same* camera rolling throughout the entire trick.
A good example of this is another video on youtube called "The Box". The sole purpose of that video is to show that you can use technology and cameras to create an artistic illusion, without the aide of editing or post-processing.
The importance of doing an effective video illusion is to do everything in one take.
Right On!
I totally agree on Penn! Even before I got into enjoying magic I thought magic tricks only done in front of a camera is lame. It was never as enjoyable as a magic trick done in front of an audience and of course it will never compete with experiencing it in real life!
Imagine if he did this after the movie "now you see me" was released..
I love Penn he always speaks from his hart.
This is why i love Penn so much. "that to me is not beautiful" shows how much goes into his shows. He also understands the whole "pain as magic" concept. Dont understand why people look at the thread through eye trick and say "oo magic". thats not magical. Thats why ive never had the sleightest (heh-ehh) of an inkling to want to perform that, or any other "pain as magic" trick.
And also about camera tricks - i dont like the people that go around for 2 hours doing what he described, that means theyre not doing the magic for the spectator, and shows how narcissistic they are and that they only do magic to make themselves look good. IMO magic is for the spectator. One thing i do, is I leave the house with about 5 cards all saying "you are beautiful" on them. and I force that card to the spectator and bam. Their day has been made.
I totally agree with what Penn is saying about camera tricks not being magic. If we don't consider The Matrix or Iron Man to be magic, why should we call it magic when someone just edits in the "trick"?
That being said, there is this guy who does magic tricks on Vine using camera tricks who I can respect. I can't think of his name right now - I'm sure someone can enlighten me in a reply - but in many of his videos he says something to the effect of "Just kidding, it's just a [short explanation of trick]." As I said, I can respect that.
This is a man who knows his goddamn craft, and appreciates its flaws and loopholes as well as its majesty and the skill involved in it..
I totally agree! Watching magic on television today, is not a skill, it's disrespectful to the art and the audience.
Always enjoy hearing Penn's outspoken views.