Why You're Struggling to Play Doubles on Kick
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- Опубліковано 1 бер 2018
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Today we’re digging into foot technique and all the theory behind it! Here are some reasons why you might be struggling with getting those right foot doubles up to speed. Whether the problem is mental or physical, I hope to offer some practical, productive suggestions to help you out. The truth is, there are no shortcuts to achieving foot speed on the bass drum. However, if you can isolate the issue and KNOW what to practice…well, that’s a shortcut in and of itself. After going through detailed, slow motion examples of 3 different “heel-toe-type” techniques, we wrap up the discussion with the underlying concept that you don’t “absolutely have to” learn any ONE technique. Our goal as drummers should be to adapt our foot technique to our body type and playing style and to find a method that works for us. As the thumbnail states, you don’t HAVE to learn heel toe. What if another technique is actually easier and faster for you? Keep an open mind, and keep improving that right foot.
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stephen@thenonglamorousdrummer.com
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Where was your channel when I was learning to drum 9 years ago
The one problem I see here is that you're limited to digits e because you're sinking the beater
@@einarabelc5 daa
@@einarabelc5 00
Link is broken!
really helpful for all of us self taught drummers out there who never got lessons. would have been nice to have had the internet 25 yrs ago!
John, at 69 YO, I was Self Taught too, but in 1966-69. Just picked drumming again after 50 Years Off!! My wife of 45 years gifted me a cheapo Gammon Kit for 2018 XMAS. She did that bc I only "mentioned" that I was interested to go to a local music studio to "beat on the drums again". So now, I recommenced playing since mid 2019 (it took me about 4 or 5 months to "attack" the new kit). I've started watching Steven's and others YT videos for tips and tricks. I always played Heel Down on the Bss pedal. My right leg is affected by its shortness (1 inch short resulting from a HS Football fractured right Thigh in 1966). That unattended shortness has also wreaked total Havoc with my hips and spine, but I deal with it. It Does affect that I am unable to hit double strokes on the bass. Oh well, Practice, Practice, Practice. I only play for Recreational pleasure as I am retired and won't be playing Gigs... Unless a Geriatric Band should stumble on the horizon. Happy Drumming !!
You should see it from self teaching starting 57 years ago. Mentors were few and far between. Lessons on a corded land line? Ha ha
My foot feels like when you have a dream where you are trying to escape from something. So you try to run as fast as possible but you start moving so slow like you hit some quicksand.
My advice is to play Immigrant Song by Led Zeppelin over and over until you are 100% comfortable with that groove , if your doubles aren't dialed by the end of that - you might have to settle for a lifetime of playing AC/DC tunes....
Steve Moore Drumeo also has a video of a great single pedal exercise that really gets your foot going
Immigrant song is so hard to learn but its so good when you do
That is hysterical. I can get about halfway through Immigrant Song at this point (new to this). So right about AC/DC but it is nice to have something that a new guy can play. Tough instrument to learn at 50.
Exactly what I tell people when they want to do doubles develop that Bonham foit
How bout people move on and let all the cheesy 70s rock bands die?
Your lessons are always simplified but really in-depth. I find they’re delivered well to a beginner and now intermediate drummer like myself 👌🏽
Thanks heaps
I've recently gotten a kit (just a practice pad for a couple years before that.) I've gone through plenty of tutorials, and had adjusted the tension on the pedal to loosen it a bit. But I'd sort of forgotten about that aspect of it in all the other things I was having to figure out.
I was really struggling with quick heel and toe, leaving aside just my still sort of iffy technique so far. Tonight I finally thought about it again and just relaxed the tension a bit more, and within 15 minutes I was doing orders of magnitude better.
It was just pushing back too much on my foot, it was that simple. That would both make it hard for me to get the timing right, and I'd often get these sort of trailing bounces off the kick head. Just dropping the tension a bit more made those issues go away.
So, anyhoo, don't always assume it's your own incompetence. Learning how to optimize your gear is a big part of it. And it was nice to suddenly get what seems like months of improvement in 15 minutes.
I'm definitely going to try this! I've always kept my pedal fairly high tension because I thought I needed it for the rebound, but I'm learning that the exact opposite may be true.
Thank you for your videos... They are always supportive, open to everyone's personal style and always teach me something.
Hi Stephen, You've just helped me really understand the mechanics of bass drum double stroke. Best I've seen on this subject.
I consider this a break through! A credit to you sir, keep up the fine work.
So far (well 10 yrs or so of being mildly interested in leisure drumming) this was the best showcase of double strokes with kick, that I have come across. Really informative and encouraging for me!!
Of course you don't *need* heel-toe, but it's one SOAB of an asset to have. Since I started practicing, *every* part of my kick technique has improved immensely, from heel up to heel down to ankle motion.
I recommend everyone give it a try, and by try I mean two or three weeks of intense focused practice, don't give up when you fail in the beginning, because you *will* fail. See what it does to your legs and feet, I believe you're gonna be impressed with yourself. To me, it's one of the single greatest assets I have (somewhat) acquired.
I couldn't do heel-toe technique until after a while. Now I can do it with both legs. It just needs a lot of practice to know your foot, where it strikes, what makes the two strikes, know your pedal & spring tension and the feel of it - and just keep practising. I've tried sliding - but its very inconsistent. I can't always slide, and when I am able to slide it just ruins my shoes. Heel-toe is very reliable.
I really like your tips because you are so down to earth. You know all the common problems a drummer can experience. Keep posting sir because I like to listen.. Thank You
The slo-mo really helped and don't see very often in drum lessons. I think anyone at any level can appreciate the slo-mo when breaking down a new technique or groove. Great job. I appreciate the extra effort!
Jared from Drumeo does it slow mo :D just google toe-heel technique and you'll find it!
THANK YOU!!! Everyone always talks about heel-toe, but I've always been more comfortable playing heel-down. I was told that what I was doing wrong, but it works for me.
Spot on mate! Breaking these techniques down to its simplest form and the concepts behind them! Bravo! The basics are the means to excellence, or in this case drumming dexterity!
Thanks, I really needed to hear this! I am a beginner. I was a heel down player and recently went to Cuba for 2 months to study Afro Cuban drums. My teacher suggested I try heel up, which at first felt so awkward I could hardly play. But, whenever I find I can't do something, I always want to do it! So I kept at it and now it feels completely natural. It definitely allows me to play harder when I need to, and faster. And now I use both techniques, I don't think about it, I just use whichever feels right at the time.
This video helped me figure out which technique is more suitable for my style. Great video. Keep up the great content!
i heard it said once "learn all the techniques they are all different tools to be utilized in different scenarios" i feel like that was you're overall message.
Hey Stephen, it's nice to know that someone has broken this concept down and not making one feeling like you have to do Heel Toe technique. I will definitely go back home tonight and try this method. Even though I get impatient and want to get it now, not later I'll be sure to take my time.
Fred
I have watched multiple videos about heel-toe, and they never made sense. Slowing down the video was REALLY helpful. Thank you.
I appreciate this video. I am new and having issues. I also have to play without shoes due to foot size, so I am glad you mentioned that.
This was VERY informative. Great job, Stephen!!!!
Thank you!! I've struggled with this. Know I now how to go about it.
Your videos have helped my foot technique more than you can imagine. Thank you!
I appreciated your insight to NOT needing heel toe method just to gain speed. I'm a long time drummer however double kick is something I've really wanted to master. I like your suggestion to use what really feels right. Thanks! Good video assistance.
It’s funny, I’ve gotten a billion little tips over the years about stuff like this but the only thing that ever really works is giving it time. Just add it to your repertoire, make sure you’re doing it correctly and work on it...that’s all.
People always seem to want that one tip that’s going to make it click but it just doesn’t work that way, unfortunately. You just gotta do it a bunch.
Excellent! I just found this site today. I used to play heel down/flat footed and then started learning/playing heel up. Initially almost falling backwards off my drum throne.:-) Lately I've found I can play both ways but my flat foot technique fatigues fairly quickly. I agree completely with your point about not being forced to play a certain way. You made your points extremely well. I made my living as a drummer a looooong time.
I like the Heal Up method because my instructor said It was an easy way to get out the bass sound.. Plus I can get more dynamics And for me this was true. At my church our drummer is more fluid and loves the jazz sound uses heal down. I guess it depends on what style your playing. You and Stephen Taylor are my go to guys. You complement each others teaching. God Bless
This was BY FAR the best explanation on the subject. Incredible. Cant´ thank you enough.
The slow-motion is so helpful! Thanks.
I love you man. I learn so much from you. I get it in the way you explain it. Keep up the great work.
Dude. You are the best drum teacher. When ever im confused I come to your videos and you always have the answer.
I can't describe how helpful this is for a beginning drummer!
Great video on a topic I’ve been looking for. I’m happy to see your channel grow :)
Thank you for sorting this out. I've been trying to re-educate my foot to no avail. It has left me frustrated as I try to play the slide technique, heel up and variations of such. I can play doubles quite comfortably heel down and as I need to speed up, I simply move my foot back the middle of the pedal and naturally go toe-heel allowing the bounce, catching the beater after rebound. For most music I play, heel down is more controlled and sufficient and can make it powerful enough to cut through the band. Enjoying your videos..very helpful..thank you.
Thank you so much. I am a newer drummer trying to develop my technique and I keep seeing videos of people talking about heel toe and the slide technique and they all seem to focus on a very specific foot position that I find unnatural and pretty much impossible. But they never say they that you can do variables on this movement for what is comfortable for you. Some of them even explained it so poorly that I was led to believe that I was doing it improperly and that I would be backing myself in a corner by having poor technique and not progressing because of it. This whole time I should have been trying to further develop what I was told I needed to change.
FWIW I have always played heel down, and have a very fast double. It always felt more natural to me. That said, I was self-taught. I started taking legit lessons 2 months ago and made a pledge to learn to play heel up (I always knew I needed some guidance to do it since it felt unnatural to me). I am having an extremely hard time with doubles with heel up but am committed to figuring out the technique. Once I get comfortable with it, I will likely go back and forth between both techniques depending on the situation. I just find that with heel up my upper quad muscles get tired (which I know is a result of bad technique) but I have been improving it. We'll see where it goes.
@Stephen Clark - Great video, and thanks for taking stigma away. I like your "do what's best for you" approach.
Great video ! Love the comments about foot size affecting the heel-toe technique. I have size 14 shoes and the heel-toe technique
is very difficult. I also love the comments about finding the right technique for YOU. I teach that to all my students.
I have the same problem: size 14.
I was wondering if there are longer pedals. Much longer..
Thankyou always for being honest and detailed bro
Great video! Kick drum bounce!!
Never thought of it like that.
Thank you
You should also mention the spring tension on your pedal may be goofed up. If you feel like you're waiting for the pedal to come back to your foot, increase spring. If you feel like the pedal and even the beater is whacking your foot (or your shin) dial it down. Play around with it and see what works for you. Thanks Stephen for posting.
Excellent thoughts and teaching! I’m going to try them all out!!
Stephen thank you so much! I was trying to force myself yo play heel up and my bad knees were killing me. Now I just play heel down and it feels great!!
Hey Steve thanks for sharing your knowledge sir.
Great vid i like how you broke everything down ...when i first started trying to do doubles with the double bass it was ruff trying to get my left foot up to speed with my right (with toe toe). I just started doing paraddidles with my feet. It really just comes down to practice practice practice. The mental thing is the hardest to get over, usually your brain goes faster than what your mucles are used to.
I use heel-toe for fast doubles on kick (It's really easy for me this way, it's natural), but when it's something slower I prefer to use other techniques, because I struggle too much to do slowly the second hit fairly well using heel-toe.
Stephen keep on keeping on . You are very clear and to the point and I like that a lot. Like I said keep on keeping on.
I think this is the best video on playing doubles on the base drum. I started by playing singles with accents on each foot (for double base) then when I developed enough control I started practicing doubles on each foot. The same techniques used for stick control, I find, can be translated to the feet. Where wrist exercises used for the hands follow a similar application for the feet using your ankles. For doubles start slooow! Place the accent on the second beat just like you would do with your hands when originally developing 5 stroke rolls. Once you get that write and have developed enough control try combinations of 5 stroke rolls with the left hand and right foot, followed by right hand left foot. This will help separate each limb so that you will develop more independence of movement on each limb. More complex combination can then be developed by introducing each rudiment on the feet, and then all of the limb combinations as stated above. In addition to this, when counting out the rudiment, or rhythm start start slowly! Very slowly, and make a mental note as to have it feels. The actual movement of your limbs to make a specific complex rhythm, in my experience, is very different then your original perception.
The reason why I clicked on this was too help me with an extremely fast song that has double kicks throughout the whole song. You really helped me out!
Thank you for calling out the similarities between other (hand) techniques, in my head I was just thinking "heel-toe was the next frontier" for getting speed but didn't realize you could apply rebound principles with heel-up. FWIW I think in one video you mentioned that metalheads probably aren't watching you, but I've been finding your videos incredibly helpful!
Helpful advices! Thank you!
Good lesson. I like that you were not afraid to show the different techniques and actually look what is physically happening with the pedal/beater to demonstrate that the end result is pretty much the same. I could never get on with heel/toe technique personally. When I started I mainly played heel up, but now I'm more of a heel down player as I've developed my playing. Technique should never dictate what you are trying to play, it should always be led by the music. A particular technique should just be the enabler for that to happen. Also it was good that you focussed on the mental/physical aspect of playing. With kick doubles I seem to have a mental block when it comes to doubles starting on a downbeat, e.g. when played as 16th notes: 1-e, 2-e, 3-e, 4-e etc. but leading into a downbeat I find much easier to process e.g. ah-1, ah-2, ah-3, ah-4. Physically there should be no difference, but mentally there definitely is!!
Larnell lewis has an amazing video on his foot technique where he taps with his heel up then almost with a flat foot. He explains it amazingly and I instantly found that I had cleaner, more accurate and easier doubles with that. Definitely worth checking out
It just took for You to go into the mental shortcomings of this subject for me to Subscribe.
Thanks and great work with these tutorials. It really helps! 🙏🏾
Yes!, I have big feet too and heel toe is pretty much impossible. Heel up all the way.. I like playing drums because solving these problems is in itself good fun and of course rewarding when you find what works and can accept what doesn't.
Steven, This video is a great help to understand the Nuances of the Bass pedal and the playing techniques. Just watched again now. Appreciate it. No wonder why Ginger Baker played a Double Bass drum!!!! Keith Moon too.... They couldn't do Doubles on the single Bass Drum :):):)
Yeah my foot size has been an issue with my ability to play doubles with the kick drum for a while now this definitely helps man thanks!
I use a bit of it all. Thank you!
Great information. I have been working on my feet for the last year and have made significant progress thus far. For the coming year, I will be exercising different permutations of the paradiddles with my feet while playing time with my hands. I started with the first RLRR LRLL between the feet while playing quarter notes with the right hand and alternating between the 3 and the backbeat with the left hand. After 30 days of doing that, I am now playing RLLR LRRL and am working the hands into the mix. Thus far only have the rt hand on quarter notes. I am seeing improvement. It occurred to me that 2022 is a paradiddle and so this coming year I am going to focus on practicing paradiddles in various permutations and various ways. I want to see how many different ways I can use the paradiddle in my playing. I am looking forward to the improvement already.
I just took the most simple, common sense approach. I started playing doubles really slow and took the speed up gradually. What resulted is, I have zero need to slide my foot anywhere, I have zero need to play heel/ toe method and things like- what pedal I’m using and spring tension do not matter. This is the absolute best way for anyone. It’s the most natural. One can always add other techniques, but being able to play fast doubles on the floor with just your foot is equal to being able to play fast doubles with just your hand/ wrist. It always translates to the stick and pedal.
Again blowing all my expectations out of the water keep killing it man
i am glad to hear all this
i play all balls with the heel up
and i never had a problem
it gives me a sense of attack
Amazingly helpful as always
Gotta try these techniques thanks a million
Thanks Steve! Great no-hype tips.
Hey Stephen.... there was one small thing my teacher told me more than 20 years ago that might be insignificant but it is amazing when practicing or performing.... clipping finger and toe nails.... it gives you a greater sense of the pedals and sticks and helps connect you with the drums better... I make it a habit to clip my nails 2-3 days before a performance and it worked wonders for me.
I haven't found a big rage to learn heel-toe; I find at least as many if not more doing slide (maybe more so for quick doubles; for extended, H-T seems to be very popular indeed).
That aside, I enjoyed this video and will be incorporating some of the "thinkie" parts of what I'm doing into my practice. Thanks!
I'm a heel down player. I practice Iron Maiden "Nicko" style gallops, doubles, and such. Also tried changing and practising the other methods through out the years. I noticed that I kept going back to heel down when accuracy or speed was the goal. It is that muscle memory that just made it tight. Also i found not burying the beater at all worked best for me, i just let the beater off of each stroke, and tightened up my foot to grab-snap it back for stroke two. It's all how you condition and practice.
Great Video,keep up the great tips
you make a lot of sense bro thank you
Thank you very much! This helped and gave me clarification.
Well done Stephen!
Love the bass kick sound.
Nice deepness in it.
Learning from rockband - everything was done on my right foot. Because of me being a metal head and learning from rockband I can play consistently a single foot bass using a heel up technique where my ankle (mostly) and leg do most of the physical work.
Branching into real world thing, teaching my left foot the same has become quite the challenge. In fact what works for me, personally is the heel slide tech for my left and heel up for my right.
Good video. I have been frustrated for awhile with my doubles and will try this out. Learning Thunderkiss'65 by White Zombie and even that basic one is hard to keep consist and rolling for me!
I use heel toe quite a bit - I use it to play sustained 32nd notes, in lieu of using a double pedal / double kick setup.
For playing basic doubles, I typically just use my toes in a sliding motion, and I've found that to work well for me.
Also, I have found over my years of playing heel toe that using a pedal with a longer footboard like the Axis Longboards or Demon Drive or Tama Speed cobra is immensely helpful, and I have always played shoes off to give me more feel on the footboard and to slide a little better.
Thanks for the vid!
I'm heal up and this was an awesomely informative video. Thank you!
FecalBlaster I’m a heel up guy too. Tbh, that heel-toe style kinda blew my mind. I’ve never done it that way & my foot just naturally stays up high on the pedal, so it never occurred to me to try that. It doesn’t feel very natural to me, but I’m definitely gonna see if it has any practical application for me.
subscribed! so glad someone is doing no glam stuff. its awesome, keep it up!
I learned heel toe by accident one day and it changed my life but only because I was bad with heel up and down and want to play fast punk rock.
This is awesome. Thanks!
Thank you! A breakthrough for me
"Physical and mental" the most precious info for me. To ME, its mental. When i play only the foot on bass drum, everything ok, but When i play in a groove, it's like a second left foot or someone else's foot. Great lesson Stephen!
"Why is my right foot so clumsy?"
- because I'm a lefty...
I'm left handed person too but i play guitar and drums normally
@@ReignJeffersonCTria normally? slap in the face to all lefties ( i play open-handed)
@@ReignJeffersonCTria Abnormally for all us lefties.
I play open I'm left
@@gexyvr8212
I play open-handed too, but my hi hat hand is my right hand.
Good point. I play heel down, Having had a stroke a few years ago I have some paralysis on the right side and my muscles dont won't quite as well. I get in that double with my big toe. Instead of the slide. Barefeet are required though. very informative video thanx.
Clearly-articulated common sense. Bravo and thank you.
Stephen, I have been playing for 56 years. Age and medical problems had begun to take their toll on my playing, mostly with my feet from nerve damage from accidents and heart medications. I used to be able to do some really fantastic stuff on that bass peddle to the point that I just laughed at " double bass" players. 1st, we have two types of pedal plays (1) the ankle player, and . (2) the " leg/knee" player. I found that as the nerves and muscles in my right leg started to go down hill I did some weird stuff to compensate. One that worked well was that I switched from my usual speed king and other good pedals to a really cheap sloppy one that I put stiff springs on. then I rotated my snare stand to where one of the legs ran toward the bass peddle. I would rest my heel on that snare leg and use the ball of my foot on the bass pedal. It worked great. Right now I have installed a really nice set of Yamaha double Bass pedals and I am useless with them ... Got to change something or give up??
Excellent lesson. This guy must be an actor; he NEVER blinks! :-)
This channel seems to be geared towards novices - a very valuable asset for those who need it. for those of you who insist he is doing everything wrong, you probably should not be watching these videos. there are several advanced drumming channels that may be better for you. I have been playing for over 30 years. I watch videos like this to help fill in any gaps there may be in my early drumming development. His advice is sound, even if it does not apply to you. look up Mike Johnston to see how your legalistic opinions are flawed.
Stephen! You're the man! I thought I am the only one in the world playing heel down!
Heel-toe can get you some really effortless blazing fast double kicks for what seems like way less input than simply hammering single strokes with only the toe. Some people would probably need longboard pedals to do it, but the rewards are worth the practice in my opinion. Right heel, right toe, left heel, left toe. The constant rolling motion feels very natural to me, but it really does feel limited by the pedal quality and size. On Axis pedals, it's beautiful. On Iron Cobras, you're probably in for a rough time.
I like your Newsletter and the E-Book‘s a lot !
Super helpful thank you!
After watching this video, I was suddenly able to do doubles on the kick drum. I was so frustrated with myself for weeks prior to that. Thanks for the advice.
Thanks for your suggestion
This was really helpful! Thanks! I haven't seen any videos of you on the doble kickdrum, but, is there some advice you would give on how to practicar singles and dobles on a doblekickdrum? Thanks alot man! Awsome channel!!
Really helpful video...🙏🙏🙏
Love the slow motion view helps alot
Literally what I needed
im about to get much better pedals, and the pedal ive used is just a single pedal and i can do heel toe but my pedal just isnt long enough for that. so ive learned to use the ball of my foot as a substitute for the heel part. and this video made me feel much better about that, because so many drummers get frustrated if youre not using the proper heel toe technique. i just wanna get the right sound as comfortably as possible
Thanks for your guidelines bro.I think heel up works best for me.