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My father, Glen R. Hollinger was a ball turret gunner in B-17G Oh! Hardluck. 43-37775.He told a few hair raising stories also. He was never injured and completed all his missions. Sadly his bomber was scrapped at Kingman AF.
My great uncle was on the USS Phoenix Dec. 7 1941 Pearl Harbor. He was on one of 2 ships to escape the harbor that day. Honored to have his dogtags he was wearing that somber day.
@@lawrencewiddis2447 There were over 10 thousand of them, useless for basic national defense or civilian use. Corpos turned the metal into ugly manufactured homes. . "Tornado coffins"
I have read about interviews of captured German pilots who were asked about how they attacked B-17s. They all said that they tried to avoid the ball turret because it was the hardest part of the aircraft to deal with. A combination of armour and the two 50. calibre machineguns sat in front of the gunner which made it hard for them to hit him. So German pilots usually avoided attacking that position. Interestingly the US Army Air Force produced a list of casualties of B-17 crew members and the ball gunner came second safest position.
The Luftwaffe pilot who supposedly developed the fighter attack sequence was Johannes Steinhoff; who was a Hauptmann or Major (not certain which) at that time. Coming straight in at the formation with 60~80 machine guns firing at the attacking fighter was, as he stated in English years later, “controlled suicide”. But, he survived and eventually became a Oberstleutnant by the end of the war; flying ME-262s. Later, when the Bundestag Luftwaffe (post WWII) was organized he reentered the service and worked his way up to full General and head of the NATO Military Committee. He passed away in 1993; it would be interested to know if this ball turret gunner ever met Steinhoff in later years. Former enemies turned allies.
@@Scottrchrdsnnice reply!!! It was crazy as hell when I learned the ME-262'S fuel( not sure if that is even correct) was fine if they stayed apart, but once they came together it was highly corrosive( once again not sure if that is correct term lol) . Was even shittier to listen to a German pilot get eaten alive by his own jets fuel.
So many stories told, so many left untold. Most of those to tell the stories are gone now so Thank You for your fork! Always good stories and though many are tragic, it is good to know that there are also "happy" endings as well.
Another Great video TJ. You picked a great story too. I have seen that same photo so many times over the years and always assumed he was washed out of that turret. I am so glad to hear that he not only survived but was back on the job after just a few days. It's sad these kids had to become men over night. Thank you for telling their stories. I think back at the things I was doing at that age and how lucky my Generation had it. I can't even imagine what it must of been like to have to climb into one of these Aircraft facing death at every turn at any age. So many things could go wrong even before you get to the enemy. I remember the flight I took in "Nine O Nine" and thinking about the group of wires that ran along the top on the fuselage inside that controlled the Rudder, Elevators and the rest of the controls and started thinking how easy it would of been for a piece of shrapnel to slice through the fuselage and cut though those cables. I know they had them on both sides in case of a failure but things happen. I kept picturing the "All American" and wondering how they held together allowing her to back it back to safety. They were probably part of what held the tail on . Then Imagine surviving that then be told you are going back to hit the target again the following day. How much luck could one person have? They had to start feeling that their luck was running out more and more trip after trip yet they crawled back in and flew them again anyway. Brave men all of them. Thanks again for finding and sharing their stories. These men were the real Super Heros. Please Keep Em Flyin. We've got your six.
Many USAAF bomber crews in their crippled damage aircraft must be so relieved to see spitfire angels come to escort across the English Channel to Homebase great video TJ3.
My uncle was a ball turret gunner in a B-17 that survived 111 missions. He flew 35 missions. The closest he got to being injured inside the ball turret was taking a piece of flak in the sole of his boot. Well, that and having to bail out of one of his planes over Belgium. The Belgians helped him get back to England.
@ - They would open the turret so the gunner could climb up and strap his chute on. It’s also possible that my uncle was on a different gun position than usual.
My dad flew in a B-17. It was through attrition he went from motor pool mechanic to radio operator/ mid gunner. He never spoke about his service. I understand why. Nonetheless I would have cherished to our conversation. We talked about many thing's. Just not his combat experience. Rest in peace Dad. I miss you.
As a kid in the 1950's, travelling to LA from Colorado on the Santa fe Chief, saw endless fields of WW2 bombers in Arizona that were slated for scrapping. I will never forget that sight.
The worst thing I can think of for a ball to it gonna happen in a movie. The wings were shot up to the point where the landing gear wouldn't no longer function, Even with manual controls. The ball turret gunner was trapped in the ball turret and could not escape... And they had to belly land the aircraft. You can guess how the end of the story went.
They can also remove them and let them fall out of the plane by removing 4 bolts. There is a wrench that is kept attached to the turret mounts and the book says it takes appox. 20 minutes to release it if they needed to lose some weight. But, they wanted them to save the gun site first which took Appox. 20 minutes because it was the most expensive part of the ball turret. They also recommended that you keep the turret in place if you plan on ditching in the ocean, Of course none of that would of saved the guy if he was stuck in it. They couldn't fit their parachute in the turrett with them so it had to be a terrifying ride if there was a problem.
Apparently, during the air war over Europe, there was a bomber called the B-24 Liberator. Yet I never ever see a youtuber ever mention them. What gives?
It’s nothing new friend, the fortress gets all the glory but yes the B-24 was also there AND in the Pacific too! It had a slightly longer range and greater bomb payload but was also harder to fly and easier to shoot down. All the more reason its crews should be given the acknowledgment they deserve in my opinion.
@@JoshuaHistoryBuff They used to say you could tell the B-24 pilots from the rest because they had larger calf muscles from having to put so much force on the peddles all the time. The B-17 was easier to fly. But pilots of both aircraft say theirs was the better of the 2. Lol. I think I would of choose the B-17 I've seen so many photos of them and wonder how did it stay in the air and make it back home. Like "The All American" for one. She was basically cut in half and still made it home. Flown and crewed by very brave young men.
The reason nobody talks much about it was because it was a "good enough" bombers. Like the 17 was the cadalac and the 24 was the Toyota camrey. It was very hard to keep in tight formations while the 17 loved tight formations. Not nearly as rugged as the 17. Yes those people do deserve the credit.
I'm so danged claustrophobic that the mere _thought_ of curling up in that ball is terrifying. Out of that though, there are many tales where God's hand saved these brave souls.
Outstanding Video. However, the Boeing Factory Flight Manual for their legendary B-17 Flying Fortress clearly lists 6 feet 2 inches as the more than ample height limit for the "Sperry Ball Turret"...
The ball turret gunner is one of the most dangerous positions in the B17. There's a part in WW2 in hd:air wars where a b17 was returning to base with extensive damage. The landing gear couldn't be deployed and the only way to land was belly landing. To make things more gruesome, the mechanism that rotated the ball turret had been hit and the gunner inside was stuck in there. In their own words - "Their ball-turret gunner is trapped in the plastic bubble hanging beneath the bomber...he's trapped inside the plastic cage...3000 pounds of dead weight just hanging from the wings...their electric and hydraulic systems shot full of holes...he will be crushed between the concrete of the runway and the belly of the bomber, and there is nothing any of us can do about it."
Ya this the worst thing. There are stories of ball turret gunners trapped in the ball. The landing gear is knocked out and they cant get him out. Crash landing on the belly the piolet knew he was killing the gunner. Also there are stories of gunners getting trapped and being left for dead there screams and please still haunting the surviving crew. Often the gunners were the most honored of the crew and the men would pitch in to give them extra booze or luxuries as they were often the most killed of any b17 crew. The design of the ball was such that the could only be opened from one position and the Germans would focus the belly from underneath. Kinda shocked this video is so thin on the details.
I have bene playing War Thunder for many years, It can be a very good or very frustrating game to play, At least it can give me a chance to fly actual WW2 Based aircraft, Much like this channel, which I can get a pretty good idea about real time life for pilots and soldiers during the last truly great war.
3:48 Glad these heros made it back alive, but if Sargeant Coyle hadn't, I'd believe he was reincarnated as the late, great Norm Macdonald! (Or so the Germans would have us believe...)
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Ehh it’s understandable. Our boys were flying from bases in England after all and we all know how our brothers across the pond enjoy their beans and meat pies! Your gramps is a great American hero though never forget that!!!
Not exactly an appropriate comment to make here! Empathy and respect seems to be lost forever in many people across the globe. Kenites will be Kenites...🤔
by saying War Thunder is the most comprehensive game ever I just disliked the video. did they pay you to say that word by word with the script they gave you or did you come up with yourself 😂
DUDE!! Your voice is sounding like AI. Not good bro! Thinking about unsubscribing. Edit: yep, couldn't even get 5 minutes in without the narration making my ears bleed. See ya!
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My father, Glen R. Hollinger was a ball turret gunner in B-17G Oh! Hardluck. 43-37775.He told a few hair raising stories also. He was never injured and completed all his missions. Sadly his bomber was scrapped at Kingman AF.
My great uncle was on the USS Phoenix Dec. 7 1941 Pearl Harbor. He was on one of 2 ships to escape the harbor that day. Honored to have his dogtags he was wearing that somber day.
By 1945 B17s were outdated. Scrapping was appropriate.
@@lawrencewiddis2447 There were over 10 thousand of them, useless for basic national defense or civilian use. Corpos turned the metal into ugly manufactured homes. . "Tornado coffins"
Sperry ball turret, one of the safest positions in the aircraft, proven fact!
@ please post your source for this proven fact.
I have read about interviews of captured German pilots who were asked about how they attacked B-17s. They all said that they tried to avoid the ball turret because it was the hardest part of the aircraft to deal with. A combination of armour and the two 50. calibre machineguns sat in front of the gunner which made it hard for them to hit him. So German pilots usually avoided attacking that position.
Interestingly the US Army Air Force produced a list of casualties of B-17 crew members and the ball gunner came second safest position.
wwII bombers a great youtube channel with tons of informations and statistics
The Luftwaffe pilot who supposedly developed the fighter attack sequence was Johannes Steinhoff; who was a Hauptmann or Major (not certain which) at that time. Coming straight in at the formation with 60~80 machine guns firing at the attacking fighter was, as he stated in English years later, “controlled suicide”. But, he survived and eventually became a Oberstleutnant by the end of the war; flying ME-262s. Later, when the Bundestag Luftwaffe (post WWII) was organized he reentered the service and worked his way up to full General and head of the NATO Military Committee. He passed away in 1993; it would be interested to know if this ball turret gunner ever met Steinhoff in later years. Former enemies turned allies.
@@Scottrchrdsnnice reply!!!
It was crazy as hell when I learned the ME-262'S fuel( not sure if that is even correct) was fine if they stayed apart, but once they came together it was highly corrosive( once again not sure if that is correct term lol) .
Was even shittier to listen to a German pilot get eaten alive by his own jets fuel.
I have seen pics of that ball turret a few times and often thought did the gunner survive. Now I know. Thanks for the great video.
Thank you!
So many stories told, so many left untold. Most of those to tell the stories are gone now so Thank You for your fork! Always good stories and though many are tragic, it is good to know that there are also "happy" endings as well.
Thanks for watching!
Another Great video TJ. You picked a great story too. I have seen that same photo so many times over the years and always assumed he was washed out of that turret. I am so glad to hear that he not only survived but was back on the job after just a few days. It's sad these kids had to become men over night. Thank you for telling their stories. I think back at the things I was doing at that age and how lucky my Generation had it. I can't even imagine what it must of been like to have to climb into one of these Aircraft facing death at every turn at any age. So many things could go wrong even before you get to the enemy. I remember the flight I took in "Nine O Nine" and thinking about the group of wires that ran along the top on the fuselage inside that controlled the Rudder, Elevators and the rest of the controls and started thinking how easy it would of been for a piece of shrapnel to slice through the fuselage and cut though those cables. I know they had them on both sides in case of a failure but things happen. I kept picturing the "All American" and wondering how they held together allowing her to back it back to safety. They were probably part of what held the tail on . Then Imagine surviving that then be told you are going back to hit the target again the following day. How much luck could one person have? They had to start feeling that their luck was running out more and more trip after trip yet they crawled back in and flew them again anyway. Brave men all of them. Thanks again for finding and sharing their stories. These men were the real Super Heros. Please Keep Em Flyin. We've got your six.
Thanks so much as always!!
2:11 War Thumper ad ends. Back to the Ball Turret gunner.
TY
Thank you. War thunder is a b s game hate the commercials too
@@jackcheese549 It may be BUT it's a great tool for creating these videos.
@@jackcheese549 low tier is good though
My Dad was a ball turret gunner. He saw and endured some terrifying missions. Frankfurt, Munster, Ploesti, and many more.
Many USAAF bomber crews in their crippled damage aircraft must be so relieved to see spitfire angels come to escort across the English Channel to Homebase great video TJ3.
A TJ3 masterpiece is just what I need to get my day going!
I love the end with the "could be you" arrow, i think that actually was me lol
Thanks Jester! :D
TJ never lets us down.
TJ thanks for telling the story, this is one of many stories that need to be told keep them coming!!!
My uncle was a ball turret gunner in a B-17 that survived 111 missions. He flew 35 missions. The closest he got to being injured inside the ball turret was taking a piece of flak in the sole of his boot. Well, that and having to bail out of one of his planes over Belgium. The Belgians helped him get back to England.
The Ball Gunner had no space to wear a parachute.🤔
@ - They would open the turret so the gunner could climb up and strap his chute on. It’s also possible that my uncle was on a different gun position than usual.
As the son of a WWII fighter pilot, I truly appreciate your videos. Thank You!
I appreciate you guys!
My dad flew in a B-17. It was through attrition he went from motor pool mechanic to radio operator/ mid gunner. He never spoke about his service. I understand why. Nonetheless I would have cherished to our conversation. We talked about many thing's. Just not his combat experience. Rest in peace Dad. I miss you.
It gave me goosebump seeing that photo!!!
As a kid in the 1950's, travelling to LA from Colorado on the Santa fe Chief, saw endless fields of WW2 bombers in Arizona that were slated for scrapping. I will never forget that sight.
Great video, dear TJ. Greetings from Argentina.
Superb production all around!
Thanks for watching!
The worst thing I can think of for a ball to it gonna happen in a movie. The wings were shot up to the point where the landing gear wouldn't no longer function, Even with manual controls. The ball turret gunner was trapped in the ball turret and could not escape... And they had to belly land the aircraft.
You can guess how the end of the story went.
They can also remove them and let them fall out of the plane by removing 4 bolts. There is a wrench that is kept attached to the turret mounts and the book says it takes appox. 20 minutes to release it if they needed to lose some weight. But, they wanted them to save the gun site first which took Appox. 20 minutes because it was the most expensive part of the ball turret. They also recommended that you keep the turret in place if you plan on ditching in the ocean, Of course none of that would of saved the guy if he was stuck in it. They couldn't fit their parachute in the turrett with them so it had to be a terrifying ride if there was a problem.
Apparently, during the air war over Europe, there was a bomber called the B-24 Liberator. Yet I never ever see a youtuber ever mention them. What gives?
Here you go: ua-cam.com/video/Wtop3lpXC9U/v-deo.html
It’s nothing new friend, the fortress gets all the glory but yes the B-24 was also there AND in the Pacific too! It had a slightly longer range and greater bomb payload but was also harder to fly and easier to shoot down. All the more reason its crews should be given the acknowledgment they deserve in my opinion.
@@JoshuaHistoryBuff You could always tell if a pilot flew B-24s. His left arm was twice as large as his right.
@@JoshuaHistoryBuff They used to say you could tell the B-24 pilots from the rest because they had larger calf muscles from having to put so much force on the peddles all the time. The B-17 was easier to fly. But pilots of both aircraft say theirs was the better of the 2. Lol. I think I would of choose the B-17 I've seen so many photos of them and wonder how did it stay in the air and make it back home. Like "The All American" for one. She was basically cut in half and still made it home. Flown and crewed by very brave young men.
The reason nobody talks much about it was because it was a "good enough" bombers. Like the 17 was the cadalac and the 24 was the Toyota camrey. It was very hard to keep in tight formations while the 17 loved tight formations. Not nearly as rugged as the 17. Yes those people do deserve the credit.
TY
You have a great voice for telling a story , without being a *great grandpa* 👌
Haha thank you!!
I'm so danged claustrophobic that the mere _thought_ of curling up in that ball is terrifying. Out of that though, there are many tales where God's hand saved these brave souls.
Yep!!
Another great video, TJ. Thank you.
Worst was the belly landing where the ball turret gunner couldn't get out and the crew knew their teammate would just be a smear on the runway.
Well both “Memphis Belle” and “Masters Of The Air” showed that if you’re ball bullet gunner you better say your prayers when the flak opens up.
Outstanding Video. However, the Boeing Factory Flight Manual for their legendary B-17 Flying Fortress clearly lists 6 feet 2 inches as the more than ample height limit for the "Sperry Ball Turret"...
Another outstanding video TJ3!!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Statisically it was the "safest" position to be in, for a given value of Safe
My grandfather's brother was a gunner on a 17, he flew 85 missions 3 in the waist 82 in the tail and made it home.
A shitload of B17s in formation is so pretty.
The ball turret gunner is one of the most dangerous positions in the B17. There's a part in WW2 in hd:air wars where a b17 was returning to base with extensive damage. The landing gear couldn't be deployed and the only way to land was belly landing. To make things more gruesome, the mechanism that rotated the ball turret had been hit and the gunner inside was stuck in there. In their own words - "Their ball-turret gunner is trapped in the plastic bubble hanging beneath the bomber...he's trapped inside the plastic cage...3000 pounds of dead weight just hanging from the wings...their electric and hydraulic systems shot full of holes...he will be crushed between the concrete of the runway and the belly of the bomber, and there is nothing any of us can do about it."
I love this channel…thank you
And I love you guys!
well done! :)
Good research
Thank you TJ3......
Old Shoe🇺🇸
@@steveshoemaker6347 thanks Shoe!
Great video
Amazing store keep up the good work, Thanks.
Ya this the worst thing. There are stories of ball turret gunners trapped in the ball. The landing gear is knocked out and they cant get him out. Crash landing on the belly the piolet knew he was killing the gunner. Also there are stories of gunners getting trapped and being left for dead there screams and please still haunting the surviving crew. Often the gunners were the most honored of the crew and the men would pitch in to give them extra booze or luxuries as they were often the most killed of any b17 crew. The design of the ball was such that the could only be opened from one position and the Germans would focus the belly from underneath. Kinda shocked this video is so thin on the details.
Simultaneously the coolest and worst job on these birds
Much like the latter day UH-1 Door Gunner.
Outstanding!
As usual, well done.🤘😎🤙
Thank you! Cheers!
@TJ3 🍻
Worse nightmare ? The landing gear does not come down !
Danke vielmals!
I enjoyed that thanks.
Glad to hear it!
I have bene playing War Thunder for many years, It can be a very good or very frustrating game to play, At least it can give me a chance to fly actual WW2 Based aircraft, Much like this channel, which I can get a pretty good idea about real time life for pilots and soldiers during the last truly great war.
I have one of Pappy Boyington's jackets, purchased by my father, directly from Pappy. Is it possible to get it authenticated?
How can I fly War Thunder WW2 Campaigns offline and fly any plane I want?
Beautiful 🙏🫡
3:48 Glad these heros made it back alive, but if Sargeant Coyle hadn't, I'd believe he was reincarnated as the late, great Norm Macdonald! (Or so the Germans would have us believe...)
Schrodinger’s ball turret gunner
Nice!
on Roblox there’s a game called general quarters it has a b17 mission option but has to have the most amount of votes to be picked
Tunnel rat would be worse for me.
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What game/software did you use for the b-17 footage in the video?
My granpappy said they called that city “murdersburg”.
Now I know why they call ball gunner
Cause when you been shot u ball gone
Awesome
can you make a video of charlie brown
I just wld bail out ....
Nice
03:40 Where are the other 3 of the crew? Its bad luck to take Pics of the crew with crew members missing from the pic.
I explain this at the end.
@@TJ3 OK cool...I figured something was up...they already had their bad luck.
It's really nice knowing buzz light year one World War II😂
I guess the "IP" is the target, but what does "IP" stand for? Thanks to anyone.
IP means initial point. That is the point where the bombers begin the actual bomb run to the target.
And after the bomb run is completed with bombs away the aircraft move towards the RP rally point to get back into return formation.
Definitely the finest generation.
Background music is most annoying.👎
my gramps farted in one and went into a coma
No todos los héroes llevan capa
Ehh it’s understandable. Our boys were flying from bases in England after all and we all know how our brothers across the pond enjoy their beans and meat pies! Your gramps is a great American hero though never forget that!!!
@@JoshuaHistoryBuff good ole grampa tooter
Not exactly an appropriate comment to make here! Empathy and respect seems to be lost forever in many people across the globe.
Kenites will be Kenites...🤔
It still smells like a steaming log to this day …..
The skid mark worked deep into the leather! He had to speak about it, its important to him
That position inside the ball turret is literally offering your ass to the enemy 😅 not ideal
by saying War Thunder is the most comprehensive game ever I just disliked the video. did they pay you to say that word by word with the script they gave you or did you come up with yourself 😂
😁😁😎👌
Try a little better. He was a crew member not an aviator an aviator flys the plane. There are a few more in your video.
@jimmied2838 glad you loved it!
@TJ3 just saying.
DUDE!! Your voice is sounding like AI. Not good bro! Thinking about unsubscribing.
Edit: yep, couldn't even get 5 minutes in without the narration making my ears bleed. See ya!
Bye!👋
Talk about the red tails