Entire Bomber Squadron Slaughtered in 20 Minutes?
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- Опубліковано 12 чер 2024
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This is the story of B-24 Georgette and the rest of the 859th Bomb Squadron of the 492nd Bomb Group during the maximum effort raid of July 7th 1944. This tells the story of how their entire squadron was shot down in a matter of minutes. This was made using the World War II flight simulator War Thunder - Download free here: playwt.link/tj3 Hope you enjoy! Please like, comment, and subscribe. #WW2 #WWIIHistory #WarThunder
RESEARCH SOURCES: Research sources in all of my content include the United States National Archives (NARA) - and specifically, Missing Air Crew Reports, as well as combat reports and diaries from various fighter and bomber squadrons. catalog.archives.gov/
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@TJ3
Why do you use a map of Germany in the borders of 1990??? That realy makes no sense !!!!
My grandfather served in this unit. His aircraft was shot down on a mission over Kiel. The surviving airmen of the 492nd used to get together each year (I believe they've all passed away now?) An AMAZING group of men
being a gunner is nothing easy especially trying to get ot a damaged airplane
You grandfather was either on the Munson or Abernethy crew. The Kiel mission number was 45 and was flown on July, 6, 1944. If you have not already done so, check out the group's website. It's a wealth of information.
Grampa Roy was there, mostly B 17's OG! EWO? "I think". Pa pa Paul was Battle of the Atlantinc Cat's, or PBY's, EWO most likely, then NASA
RIP! Greatest! I Miss You! ya' All YA"LL!!
It is really great to have an actual person narrating instead of some fake AI voice. Thanks TJ3!!
This was an outstanding depiction of the Bern-berg mission. My father was a flight engineer in the 492nd BG. On June 20th, 1944 mission to Politz, the 856th Bomb Squadron put up 12 aircraft. One turned around with engine problems. All the other eleven were shot down. (One made it to Sweden.) They were taken out by ME-410s. The 492nd was the only group to be disbanded due to excessive losses. In 66 missions they lost 55 Liberators. Of those, 34 were lost on just three of those missions. (Brunswick 8, Politz 14, Bernberg 12) Thank you for telling their story.
Once again awesome content TJ and this is probably my first time seeing depictions of the ME 410 outside of generic War Thunder vids. Also belated RIP to Bud Anderson. Godspeed Old Crow 🫡
That sounds very similar to our family history:
My father, John Allan Martin, enlisted in the Army Air Corps (1942), age 18, and served as a gunner and radio operator on B-17s and B-24s. He was assigned to the 8th Air Force in England and flew 35 combat missions over Europe. Including one shown as "SECRET" on his papers.
According to him, later while watching “12 O’clock High” on TV, he thought that it was very well done and he liked the show. He did say that instead of the large letter “A” in the show their planes carried a large letter “P” there. He was in the 387th Bombardment Squadron of 487th Bombardment Group. The records for many crew members were lost during a fire at Fort Benjamin Harrison.
His brother, age 20, was a Navy aviator flying in the Pacific area: his plane was shot down . The bad news was wired to the family, who were surprised three months later when he walked in the front door in his Navy uniform.
My father had left the service at the end of the war and worked as a TV/Radio engineer. He was called back to duty for the Korean conflict but didn’t have to deploy; and stayed with the new US Air Force. He retired in 1968 after 26 years of active duty and died in 1976. His brother also passed in 2005.
Both brothers are buried at Arlington National Cemetery.
Regards
Have you heard of the Kassel mission?
It was the worst AF loss of a group in one mission just a couple of months after this. Also a B-24 group.
Good job with this story and great visuals.
Yeah, didn't the Group run afoul of an attack by multiple sturmgruppen (IV/JG3, II/JG4, and perhaps II/JG300)?
@@nickmitsialis yes the group was attacked by 100-150 EA.
JG 300 I, Sturmgruppe II, JG 4 Sturmgruppe II and JG 3 IV Sturmgruppe.
There might have been others but these were the ones that had KIAs.
All happened in about 5 minutes.
B24 was a very vulnerable design structurally. Should not have been approved for daylight raids. British Halifax bomber another Deathtrap, totally inadequate. Heavy bombers were very new technology, many mistakes were made in their introduction, arguably all 4 engine bombers were flawed by design.
Col Jaques was at Barth Germany in the same Stalag Luft I my Uncle Gordon was. HEwas shot down on 24 Feb 44 on a mission to Gotha. All three ships in his block were shot down. He was the CP in Schlossberg crew and all survived. He was captured by farmers and threaten with hanging in Erfurt GE but saved by the local police. He was beaten at Frankfurt am main on his way to Barth. The stalag was liberated on 15 Apr 45 by the Russians. The Battle of Gotha was featured in a couple of 8th AFs films and the 392nd was awarded the Distinguished Unit Citation. I always love your content. I'm a retired USAF Historian, both enlisted and civilian, and have seen volumes of the documents you feature when I worked and the USAF Historical Reasearch Agency. My job was to write those kind of unit histories for current wings and other units.
That’s one story of the B-24s that I didn’t know of.
Re: "enemy planes shot down...' "Kill' claims were vastly over stated by returning Allied bomber crews. The only way to determine "kill" claims is to search German records to see what type, how many, place and date to be correct in reading Allied AARs kill-claims. My father was a crew chief on a B-24 called "Smooth Sue,"
Agreed. I believe a good example is the raid on Schweinfurt, where I believe the overclaiming was something like 15 or 20 to 1. It's somewhat understandable of how this could happen given the chaos of aerial combat that existed with likely numerous machine guns from the same and adjacent planes firing at the same fighter plane. However, I'm sure it wasn't nearly as easy to hit an incoming fighter coming in at several hundred miles per hour as it is portrayed in movies, especially head on when the closing speed is even higher.
The 859th were based at North Pickenham in Norfolk, the airfield is 1 mile from my house. It has had a turkey farm there for many years and in recent years wind turbines have been installed, these turbines are visible from my back garden.
To watch these huge turbines gently turning on what was once a bomber base, almost seems like a silent tribute to those who flew from there.
The number of bomber crews lost in ww2 is awful
Roughly between 1943 and 1945 the USAAF lost 8,000 heavy bombers-each of which typically carried ten crewmen-in combat during the strategic bombing campaign over Europe.
About 500 000 civilians were killed in the bombing.
@@doomhippie6673 - yep - shit happens when people don't oppose an evil regime. Sew the wind, reap the whirlwind. Give me a second while I shed a tear - probably about as long as the Germans gave to the Polish, Czecks and others that they rode roughshod over - okay second over.
So what.
@@DL-hh1cqGet lost.
@@doomhippie6673 the civilians should’ve voted differently. They get another chance in 2024!🤣🤣🤣
TJ3 you do an outstanding job on your videos!!
The more I listen to these stories the more depressed and angry I become at the fact that the people who made the decisions, like sending these men on a trip without escort, never suffered any consequences for their f-cked up decisions.
My family has a ton of connections to WW2 RAF bomber command, apparently when the Americans first turned up their crews were totally misinformed as to what they were up against, as well as the quality of their equipment. Unescorted daylight bombing was disastrous when we tried it, but the American pilots had been convinced their planes, guns & bomb sights were so superior to ours it would be easy. We were just glad to have the support cos we were in a losing battle at the time & desperate, but our more experienced pilots knew they were in for a hard wake up call.
It's quite insane on how much human lives were taken away in the matter of minutes
And it's ironic, given the fact that they were trying to air-drop food and medicine.
@@christosvoskresye hahahaha touché… love the dripping sarcasm! Delicious.
There are no winners in war.
Check out the first day of The Battle of The Somme😱
@@guaporeturns9472that’s the poms for you thry ordered thousands to their deaths
Don't you hate it when your escort abandons you? I mean I'm already self-conscious enough about having to hire one in the first place...
Yeah, never mention recent doctor visits, and carry breath mints.
Lmmfao
Ikr
Historical notes: First off - very few of these aircraft have surviving photos. The only one with photos of the nose art I believe Super Wolf. Georgette, I'll be Around, BO II, and Oonie Doonie had only names. So I took the liberty to recreate their nose art. Then - Steneman and Jack's crews had no photos, nor names. Thanks everyone!
You contaminatde the source. That's arrogant and unprofessional behavior.
@@nomadpi1 What are you talking about?
Thanks for telling us!
@@nomadpi1shut up dude you don't know how hard TJ3 tried to find such information and you are a history hater so go womp womp.
@@TJ3don't feel bad there a number of people that likes to assault or insult history channels and @nomadpi1 is one of them so ignore his insults.
An awesome TJ3 video to make today great! Thanks for the great content and all the hard work to bring it to us with such high quality. Stay awesome TJ
It's always a great day when you see a new TJ Video. Still batting 1000 TJ. you have become a master of your craft. Thanks for all your hard work and amazing research BTW: When I started this post you had 2782 views and in this short time it changed to 2875 views so I guess I'm not the only one who loves your videos. LOl. Please Keep 'em Flyin. We got your six. Have a great week end TJ.
It's great that you can find this,
When I try to find my dad records when he faught in chosen korea, they tell me records were lost in the fire.
I'm seeing alot of people saying the same thing.
Yes it true in '73. If you know your dad's unit it might be possible roughly rebuild where he was through mentions in the company records. Doing so can and will get expensive.
The CGI in this video is superb.
Appears to be from the video game War Thunder
Whoa!! My Grandfather was Andrew Jackson he was the bombardier on Bo II !! He was a POW in a Germany. My dad was shocked when he found this video, then he showed it to me. So much detail in this video.
TJ great work as usual. You have a great ability to draw the viewer in to the story, making it very real .
B-24 doesn't seem nearly as resilient as B-17
A lot of crews could not get out because of the G force,which kept them pinned in the aircraft while it was spinning to the earth.
Enjoy you work. I have been watching your videos for a few years now. Unfortunately I knew a bit about this mission from family history. My grandmother’s first husband was a member of “I’ll Be Around “. He was one of the crew that didn’t make it off the plane as it went down. Thanks for telling part of their story.
Your presentation, especially the CGI is awesome. Thanks.
YOUR ART WORK / ANIMATION IS TOP SHELF👍...Some really professional work man ...nice job! ~M
The German troops or perhaps novice home guard may have mistook the crews for paratroops. It was generally not their practice to shoot aircrew in parachutes, and they were very much appalled at the idea. If you read Scharff's The Interrogator, a German ace, Josef "Pips" Priller, approached Scharff to find out whether some of his men had been intentionally shot in their parachutes. Scharff, known for his effective use of conversational interrogation, came away thinking the Americans could never be so underhanded. As it turned out, Scharff admitted he was wrong. Scharff was friends with many US fighter pilots post war and they told him they received those orders but few followed them. One of which appears to be a certain American ace who there are videos about where he claims he killed a German pilot who had done it. He apparently made the story up, according to his squadron mates, but everyone hears it on youtube, so it must be true. As for beatings, British civilians and home guard were also guilty of this at times, even in London, and sometimes with deadly results. One of the General Erich Manstein's relatives was a flier murdered by Belgian civilians in 1940. I'm not excusing, just saying there were people guilty of this on both sides.
Just because everyone hears something does make it true.
Outstanding video and presentation.
What a very sad day for 859th Bomb Squadron.......Thanks Trent for all of your amazing research in making TJ3 History excellent WW2 video videos.......
Old F-4 II Shoe🇺🇸
Thanks for your continued support Shoe!
4:06 Interesting the lady Georgette is wearing a Playboy Bunny outfit but the Bunnies did not debut until 1960. What's up with that?
It's probably a Vargas Girl.
@@neiloflongbeck5705 It's not Vargas' style, the girl looks too human, not like a blow-up doll.
Compared to the B17 Flying Fortress, the B24 Liberator had a bad reputation for catching fire and exploding, despite being an overall rugged aircraft that could take quite a beating before being shot down.
Not just that but even though a Liberator had longer range and better bomb load, it was VERY hard to fly in tight formation (this per Donald Caldwell, an American WW2 Aviation Historian); while a B17, once trimmed could literally 'fly itself' in formation, a "24" had to be controlled at all times by the pilots, which got very fatiguing; as such, Liberator formations tended to drift apart during missions--and well all know that poor formations always attracted the Luftwaffe fighters. It's also said that the the B24's best altitude was also the FW 190's best altitude, but I'm not entirely sure if that's true or not.
@@nickmitsialis
Well said and very informative - thanks very much for your insights.
@@SNP-1999 All thanks to Don Caldwell's superlative histories.
Over 42% of all Liberators were destroyed in crashes and combat, the worst stats of WW2.
Over 6,000 of 14,000 B24 Liberators produced during WW2 were lost in combat and accidents. Those are the worst stats for US produced bombers.
It's Bernburg not Bernberg. Bernberg is in Westphalia while Bernburg is in Saxony-Anhalt
Good naration but sorry i had to hit stop cus the music is too loud and distracting. Any chance of a re post without the din please?!
These were D model 24's?
Are those B-24Js?
Seems like most other 'disasters' that happen. Just a series of small mistakes, that on their own, would amount to nothing, but, put all together, are catastrophic.
Do you have a crew list of names on each plane?
Specifically the I’ll be Around?
Which was the plane that got crashed by the ghost bomber from the other group?
That plane wasn’t part of the 859th so we cannot know.
Great watch but I didn't know Buddy Holly was still alive.
To bad i know of 1 worse mission for bomber crews , the biggest raids for the b-17's before d-day lost 5 whole squadrons during the Swinefurt & Reganburg raids of 1942 or 1943
Those were the raids in August and October 1943. In the first one they lost 60 B17s. That's 600 men. The second one in October was equally bad.
"One night after D-Day, July 7th" - Really??
At about 0:50 he said: "It is one month after D-Day, July 7th of 1944"!
The calendar he shows in the beginning is also wrong. July 7th was a Friday not Saturday.
It starts with an error: July 7th is NOT 1 day after D-Day.
Great work again TJ3 HISTORY ,sad sad very sad for those men who gave their lives in the name of freedom and justice,all brave souls gone in a matter of minutes,the whole bomb squadron,these men should be always remembered in the annals of air war of ETO,oh almighty god the father bless their brave souls
Thanks for watching!
poor map of 'former' Germany anyway...
Always 2 sides to a fight. One side come to bomb. The other side desperately tried to prevent the bombing. But with the same results. Young men and women on both sides die. Family suffered and some will also even die, such as those who were bombed. Not all targets were military.
the luftwaffe was supposedly beaten by june 44. who had them there unescorted should have faced a court martial.
Le B24 était plus vulnérable et encaissait moins bien les tirs que le B17 pourtant plus ancien de conception..
Will it be at all possible to get the writing, memories of the men and women from the then British Caribbean colonies. Who volunteered and fought on behalf of the U.K?
As a pilot if you land in enemy territory your at their mercy in most cases they kill you straight away
Awesome video with lots of research involved in making it. It's nice to not have to listen to an AI voice, thanks.
Would have been a good video without the extremely loud background music that competes with the dialog.
🤘
Flying B-24Ds in 1944? Would not there B-24Hs or Gs or even Js? Just asking.
= TJ royally "F&&KED UP" on this one due to showing N.M.F x B.24 D's from North Pickenham
They should ALL be B.24 J's or H's etc, but NOT "Birdcage Nosed" D's, nor in "Natural Metal Finish
Historically what he's done here is "a howler" (mistake), but his video in my view is SUPERB
I have before, pulled up TJ on a previous video he made, with 8th & 15th B.24's in the same formation !!
Actually when I pointed out to him that Italy & Norfolk, England B.24's would NEVER be in same formation...
He took it really well & even apologised, which I told him was "unnecessary" & most folks wouldn't know
I live down the road from North Pickenham (Airfield these crews in TJ's video lived, flew & fought from)
Hence my knowledge & high level of interest in the 492nd & 491st B.G's local to me....
This next article might interest you (?) as it's THE Pub on the Airfield boundary where these crews used
www.edp24.co.uk/news/24193097.blue-lion-pub-north-pickenham-turned-housing/
When I used to go drinking there (10-15 yrs ago) they had LOADS of memorabilia inside the Pub
Another link mentions "BEATRICE LEAH NICHOLS" being THE landlady from 1940-1950...
So SHE would be the one (& her husband) serving pints to the USAAF crewmen seen in TJ's video
www.norfolkpubs.co.uk/norfolkn/northpickenham/npicbl.htm
Back in 2008 my mate Wayne had his birthday at the Pub & "Go Kart" track inside the old B.24 base !!
@Rain-uc4ru My grandfather was a nose gunner in the 492nd, and for the record by this stage of the war they were flying the B-24J series. Great video otherwise!
@@schoolofrockcary6625 = Your Grandad no doubt too went drinking Beer down @ "The Blue Lion" Pub
(it's the Pub on the edge of the base, in the Norfolk Village of North Pickenham where they were based
My favourite North Pickenham B.24 Liberator is the beautiful nose art B.24 named "Ark Angel"
Again, another stunner who was sadly shot-down on a later mission....
Her photo's tho' look really fresh, like they taken after 2015
did you create an AI voice based off the medal of honor winning b17 gunner?
Jimmy Stewart was a flight leader. After 20 missions they had to transfer him cause HE WAS LOSING IT.
CAPTAIN Jack Sparrow, eeeeh, James Stuart ... He indeed suffered a great deal from PTSD
"Thank you for serving." What, because you didn't have to go to the war???
No closed captions! I’m disappointed.
Enjoyed the straight forward story telling presentation. Good delivery excellent graphics. Kudos.
👍
Those escorts only.abandond you when you don't pay them, cutie?
"" nites "" ???
How could the US Army Air Force allow this to happen?
How many lives (Woman and Children ) where saved Hmmm ?
Thank you for not calling the Germans the N-word (the other one), and treating all sides with respect.
Their Immigrants played a big role in developing early America.
The number of 'kills' claimed by bomber gunners were ridiculous, they were so over the moon high that the Luftwaffe would have been severely hampered if they were true. The real purpose of the gunners in a bomb group was to break up the ability of the German aircraft to maintain a stable attack run on the bombers. In this they were indeed highly successful - limiting the time fighters had to hit a targeted bomber to a matter of a few seconds. But in the age of Spielberg and UA-cam the Luftwaffe lost scores of fighters on every single mission, after all, the Americans were near-mythical superheroes, the Germans just a clump of incompetent chumps. Cheers!
well the germans barely had flying aircraft after 43.
Please note that the map of Europe is incorrect. It shows the post-war borders of Germany and Poland, and NOT the borders that existed during the war. THE PRODUCERS OF THIS POST NEED TO CORRECT THIS ERROR. ASAP, please! LIKE, NOW!
are you trying not to look at the camera...Because it just looks weird. Or people might think your blind. Doesn't look natural.
any where i go it is HOT! you could hear peoples butts melting in the sun! do you know that air fryer noise? just like that!
meanwhile our bro right here is in a hoodie and a freagin jacket!!! 😄😆
I hate when he says "The Reich" in that horrible way. I cringe every time I hear him say it.
Using maps with present day borders is just incompetent and misleading.
Why does the BF-109 take off carrying a bomb?
Good video, well researched and well done. But watching these videos you do. Knowing these brave men fought and died for a bullshit cause, the cause of furthering worldwide communism, which Germany was trying to stand up against, makes me sick to my stomach. Not saying Germany was innocent, but this war should have strictly been a European war without any American assets deployed. It pains me to see young American lives, snuffed out for no good reason. These men should have lived long and prosperous lives with children and grandchildren, but we’re robbed of that life by fucks who just wanted to enrich themselves further and establish global governance. What was the final result of the aftermath of World War II? The communistic United Nations (American representative Alger Hiss (communist) presiding in San Francisco of its inception), the beginnings of the European Union, the creation of the state of Israel, the World Bank, the CIA, followed by the Eisenhower administration who was grand RINO of all RINOS! Eisenhower destroyed the conservative republican (and Democrat) to the furtherance of communist promulgation in the United States. We see the results today in the form of DEI, inclusivity, cultural Marxism, and so many other negatives. Forgive the rant, not trying to take away from the video, just expressing my frustration of watching 60+ men either lose their lives or become captive as POWs… as they say, all wars are banker wars, or as Smedley Butler said, war is a racket.
You sir are obviously UN-dis-and mis informed about the Reasons for our (American/US) DECLARED entry into the whole of the 2nd world war. You would probably just yawn and rollover in bed on the beach at Waikiki Beach Hawaii the morning of Dec 7 1941, or sit and continue mindlessly playing a video game (if one was to be had then) in England’s Channel Islands until One of Germany’s Wehrmacht, kicked in your front door, only to let you live because they had encountered a land version of the worlds first intellectual spineless jellyfish.
“The Appeaser” :
“the last to be eaten by the lion”
W. Churchill.
“Not saying that Germany was innocent “. Really?
The map of Germany is false
Terrible Navigators the Americans , Not a rant from a biased Brit but the truth. Up to 1942 Bomber command couldn't find a target at night , but technology then changed all of that. The same advancements in navigation was used by the 8th . Switzerland received a number of assaults , one by B-24's when the mission target was 125 km to the north.
Holland ,Belgium all received bombs from groups hopelessly lost in a bit of cloud. The weather also exposed the worthlessness of the Norden bombsight.
After DDay the 8th adopted area bombing ,with only the lead bombardier responsible for dropping the bombs . Another problem was the bombs themselves ,, not powerful enough to totally destroy factories ability to operate again within a short time . The 4000 lb cookies carried by the Lancasters created a huge crater which wiped out everything.
The biggest contribution by the 8th was the fighter wings that gained mastery of the skies over Europe.
TJ, your content rocks. Thanks for the great vid.
Thanks for watching!