Zeroing your Laser: Parallel vs Converging Zeros
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- Опубліковано 20 тра 2019
- I talk about the differences in the 2 types of zeros. Also some of the Pros and Cons of both zeros.
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I love your chill ass intro music vs the regular HARDCORE RAHH in the shooting industries.
Lol dude, I'd pay real money to watch you teach a college class with the pat on the back and the "pew pew pew pew" noises. Awesome info.
Should have been there for my public speaking class, I taught a bunch of college kids to use a tourniquet. Shit was awesome. I should have had someone film it.
Nice video. I've always used a halfway approach. I use a parallel windage zero and a converging elevation zero. Basically, I just make a quick converging zero, then adjust the windage until it doesn't drift left or right when aiming the rifle at different ranges. It's just as quick and convenient as the converging zero and has the same characteristics as the zero on your optic so it's more natural to me.
Do the same thing. On for elevation at 50/200 and offset for windage.
Hi, so you use parallel windage zero method and have preset adjustments for different distances for the laser, correct?
But in the field you would need to know the distance to your target. How do you calculate that?
@@236vic Little late for this reply but that's not what he's doing. His elevation zero functions the same way a red dots zero works essentially. The way his zero would work is that his hold is basically the same as your regular optic zero would be just with the need to hold slightly to the right because of the windage difference (assuming the laser is to the right of the bore.)
Late to the party. Are you just ensuring Lazer doesn't drift left and right at different ranges or are you shooting at different ranges to confirm?
@@griffey11 if you know your red dot is zeroed you can absolutely verify parallel azimuth optically you don't have to shoot it. Elevation has different height over bore, but if you know the coincidence range you can check that distance and confirm visually.
This is the best video explaining this on the net.
Just came here to say that I just used your parallel zero target from the website. Holy shit was that easy. 30 rounds total which includes confirmation at 50 and 100. Thanks man!!
Great job. Very thorough!!!
Masterful job sir. I've often found the people who can explain this the best arnt making UA-cam videos. But here we have a young man who knows his shit. And took the time to explain it.
If you watch this video and still can't figure it out. YOU'RE wrong. I subscribed immediately. Hard to find with content from people who lived by the tradecraft and concepts and are able to explain it so clearly.
Great Instruction, easy graphics and simplifying the process Brother. RLTW
Damn dude this helped a lot. Love the sound effects too.
I have a sig canebrake with mlok handguard chambered in 300 blk out was wondering if u could give me a couple tips on sighting it in particularly with the homemade zero device you were describing thanks 🙏
Hi great video thanks. convergence gives you a reference point to distance which is very important information in the field where you do not get to set up your target, correct?
Would it not give you vital information after it crossed zero as to where you would adjust your aim to hit your target beyond the zero at 50 yards.
You would have to shoot at the target first, possibly missing, and then analyze POA/POI to figure out an approximate distance. With a flat shooting cartridge regular parallel zero would obviate the need for distance estimation at most distances you would aim with a laser at. You would also need to be able to clearly see where your rounds are landing, not so easy under nods on soft targets.
I have three different target (trex, yours, and canebrake solutions (its the army one) for parallel zeroing your laser on top mount at 25 meters. they are all different and have the laser and daytime optic placement in different places? I'm getting very confused at this point. I would be glad to show pics to show you my confusion.
Thank you for this
Does this apply to a pistol with a dot as well? I use a trl 8ag with a Holosun 507 grx2. Would I have the laser run parallel to the bore and have my optic on point of impact at 15 yards?
Makes you wonder why no company has tried to design a system so the illuminator and Lazer are centered with the top rail thus also centred with the bore so that you only have to adjust your height over bore offset for a parallel zero that is good to go and will be easy to remember
There is 1 company that is. Reason they didn't previously is because of the a2 style front sight
CTF-1 has entered the chat
question... if you used a converging zero for your laser and held your rifle the same as you would for an offset red dot, couldn't you make your holds exactly the same for the optic and laser? im guessing that this would work out well as long as the height over bore was the same and that the rifle is canted so the laser is at the 12 o'clock position when using it. would this work on a b.e. Myers mawl, where the offset is a little greater?
im guessing it's easier to hold the rifle normally and just offset the dot on the target and adjust the laser to the same distance your point of impact is for your optic.
Good stuff
So with the wilcox raidx, the converging zero would be just up and down with distance? or would the parallel zero just work?
Both zeros work. Parallel would make you hold higher and higher. Where a converging just keeps the poi and poa similar farther
thank you for the video lot to take in. I wanted to ask can't you use a bore laser to help match the laser dot and align them like that ?
You can but bore lasers don't act like bullets. It would just be a way to get them clothes, not to get them exact
@@KineticConsulting I gotcha so a good starting point but down range to dial it in
Great explanation w/o putting me to sleep. Thanks for not just saying “DO THIS.” Going to try setting up parallel zero on DBAL D2 using the cutout for the laser. Any targets yet for D2 and if not, which one of the targets on your site would get me closest? Great point about making sure tgt is level too! Also, IDK if I missed it but shoot these parallel zeros at 25yards and then verify at other distances?
Brighten the closest laser zero Target on my website is for the peq. Yes you want to zero at 25 then confirm at 50 and 100 if possible. The purpose is to confirm that you still have alignment in a parallel form all the way through
FWIW...used the PEQ-15 25yd zero target to get parallel zero on my DBAL D2 and worked like a CHAMP!!!
Good to hear
Ok so I got kind of a weird setup going on.
I’m thinking of using a TOR Mini on my Colt, it will be mounted on the exact same level as the bore but offset to the left.
Basically I just offset the laser at like 50yd or whatever the exact same distance (to the left) as it is from the center of the bore?
Any issues with having the laser at the same level as the bore that I’m not thinking of?
Just know your offsets.
@@KineticConsulting That simple, huh?
Cool.
Thank you.
I'm 4 years late to the party but for anyone interested in an easier way to parallel zero: Zero optic to 50m. Zero laser to converge on point of impact @50m. Aim center on a 100m target, and measure where the laser is in relation to the point of aim (bring a friend, or use a camera and graph paper). That lasers position is the inverse of the position of your laser in relation to the bore. You can then zero the optic to whatever distance you want, put a dot wherever the laser should be (from your measurement), line it all up and you should be good. Always confirm/true.
The way I've done mine in the past is by mating up the laser with the optic reticle as far away as I can possibly see it, and then adjusting the elevation only, to be able to fine tune for as little hold over/under as possible.
That is a 3rd way. Just make sure to confirm it on paper
@@KineticConsulting yeah, that's how I fine tune for elevation. I try and take the laser out absolutely as far as I can see it through my optic for that as well.
Generally speaking, I don't get too wrapped around the axle about it though, unless it's an IR laser. As long as it's within a couple of inches at 50 feet or so with a red or green laser, I'm okay with it. I mostly only use designators close up anyway.
Curious, if I were to set a parallel zero on a rail, would that zero carry over to another rail and barrel with the similar distance between the mount and the bore? Say I zero a peq on a Mk18 RIS 2 and wanted to put that peq on a DD FSP 14.5, can I do that with little or no adjustments?
I doubt it. It may be close but you'll need to confirm.
@@KineticConsulting Super quick with the reply, thanks for responding. I figured it wouldn’t be that easy. I’d love to take a class with you if you’re ever around the Florida Panhandle soon
@@yankee.whte. I have a couple nvg classes near you. One in S. Georgia (Ashburn) and one in Central FL (mulberry). Check out the schedule on my website
I cant figure out the parallel zero for my 1861 CS Richmond . All seriousness awesome video, super helpful, great teacher.
If I have my IR laser offset 45 degrees on my rail...I did that for space on my HK416...and probably wont use it for anything past 200m is converging still good? I have it set to a 25m zero right now. But may change my optic and laser to 50m.
That's not a preferred method but converge at a further distance than 25 is definitely suggested
@@KineticConsulting would 36 yards be preferred for laser zero? I currently have my optic zero'd to that distance (36-300 zero)
@@Thunderbolt22A10 I don't do a 36 yd zero and wouldn't.
@@KineticConsulting appreciate the response man!!
Quick and dirty knowledge bombs. Very clear instructions. Can't believe this is free
What is the best if all you have access to is 25 yrds? Mainly for hunting an self defense. Running Dbal A3.
Probably a parallel zero until you can get out further
Good video!
I'm going to use parallel on my rifle and converging on my pistol.
What's a good target for parallel zero? I'm running a holosun ir laser on my DD MK18
On my website I have targets that can help you depending on the laser you're using
@@KineticConsulting thanks!!! Will that holosun target work for a holosun LE117IR?
@@victorolguin it won't. They aren't the same dimensions
I want to add a high quality laser to my AK74M, it will be right above dust cover on a weaver mount. Will this system work for that?
As long as that dust cover is stable and doesn't shift you could possibly but handguards are a way better option.
Kinetic Consulting what I’m using is RS regulate side mount and weaver top piece. Solid
@@charlieb308 then you should be good
"this is not the scale" this tells me your diagram was just "good enough" achieve greatness!
This comment is gold.
Are their any targets available for zeroing a zenitco perst 4 or anything similar?
On my website I have Peq15 targets that should get you close.
Ok, thank you, I have to try it out
Good enough huh
Parallel to Optic VS Parallel to Bore. Is there a difference? Explain please.
Your optic is not parallel to the bore.
Which target does one use for a DBal A2?
You can use my PEQ15 target on my website.
Where does parallel zeroing originate?
I tilt/cant my rifle so my laser sits above right over the Barrel and have it zeroed the same as my reddot use it for close quarter's just keep in mind the hight over bore from 0 to 25 zero
Yes this also gets ur optic out of your pov and you can weld the rifle with this too. Super smart, and totally explains the position of the laser on peq's.
What about a laser that sits 12 o'clock center on the rail above the bore instead of offset?
The same concepts apply.
I just watched your video. I am new to lasers and zeroing. I believe parallel zeroing is going to be easiest for me to shoot. In a nutshell, I want the laser point of aim centered on my crosshair and point of impact about an inch down and to the left, correct?
Nope. You may need to watch it again.
Ok, I think the mistake I made was thinking I should zero the laser to the crosshair of my mounted IR Scope. What I should be doing is zeroing the laser to the point of impact. Is that the correct goal/mindset?@@KineticConsulting
What song is that in your intro? I was straight vibing
Shows it under the description
THX FOR THIS FANTASTIC VIDEO !..I GOT TO THINKING ABOUT THIS TODAY AND I'M GLAD TO HAVE FOUND YOUR VIDEO. PLZ, IF YOU GET THIS MSG, COULD YOU TELL ME IF I AM THINKING PROPERLY..{I FAILED GEOMETRY IN JR HIGH} . MY LASER IS ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF MY HANDGUARD. THE BEAM IS 2" PARALLEL TO MY CENTER BORE. HYPOTHETICALLY SPEAKING, IF I HAD CHAMBERED A BORE LASER AND MY LASER OPTIC IS TURNED ON, SHOULDN'T WHERE THE 2 BEAMS LAND, AT WHATEVER DISTANCE BE 2" GIVE OR TAKE ?.. SO IF MY THINKING IS TRUE, WHEN I NEED TO TAKE A SHOT RELYING ON MY LASER, I WOULD HAVE TO USE A 2" HOLDOVER. .. I HOPE TO HEAR FROM YOU. ONCE AGAIN, THX FOR YOUR CHANNEL....B.K.
If you can’t get your LAM dialed in correctly, no worries, just chunk a GROW NAID at your target.
not the ole Grow Naid
What if you use a converging zero at say 1,000 yards the cross over point will never be reached and from your bore to laser will start @ 1.5" and will only get closer all the way to the apex of the laser/red dot. By overlapping your IR laser to an already zeroed RDS you will never have to fire a shot to zero your laser and your hold overs/unders will be exactly the same as your RDS. The problem you are not acknowledging with a parallel zero is it will never be perfectly aligned with the bore because the adjustments of lasers are so coarse. You can easily verify this by using your NV to look through your RDS at distance to see how far off your parallel zero has moved.
@kinetic consulting John, ask Sam Huston of TNVC/Warrior Poet/ Green Line Tactical on his opinion on overlapping/converging zero vs parallel. You'll find he and a lot of the SOF community uses the same method I do with the exception that Sam zeros at a set distance. Please post his answer here after.
Lol one of the problems with trying to converge at 1000 is you're not accouting for the ballistics of the round man also seeing that far with a red dot is probably not going to happen.
As for the parallel zero never being perfect I once again refer to the ballistics for a round over distance man. Not only that but the lasers beam actually gets larger the further out it gets, that's how we can see it. Hence why it changes location in reference to the red dot. That's why knowing your holds and understanding your setup, zero and ballistics to the rifle is so important.
@@KineticConsulting What you're not getting moving the point at where it converges at only gets narrower to the apex. If you want to be specific for a 5.56 use 700 meters with a RDS that has a 50/200 meter zero. Your holds will still be exactly the same as your RDS and the crossover point will be well beyond the capability of the 5.56 round. Your parallel zero is flawed due to the coarse adjustments of an IR laser it will not remain parallel to infinity. This can easily by looking through your RDS with your night vision to see how off your IR laser is vs your RDS. Don't believe me look and see. You're not going to believe this either but if you have a co aligned visible/IR and sighted in using your visible it will also be off compared to your IR laser.
Also, your 2 moa rds is 10" @ 500 so just as the size of the laser grows so does your red dot. I align my green vis at dusk with my red dot at about 500m until the dot turns a yellowish color. It's always spot on and the converging zero is past the functional limit of either sight in my opinion. I don't care what the bullet is doing at 800m with a rds
@@SkeezyFPV You should always care what the bullet is doing/headed at all distances until impact. The misconception of a slaved Vis and IR laser is that it's exactly the same at all distances which is false. The Vis and IR can only be slaved/coaligned at 1 distance, after that the 2 will cross over. This can be verified at night looking through your RDS and seeing how far off your IR laser is off which is why overlapping your IR and RDS at the furthest distance is the most efficient way to utilize your LAM at distance.
I have a picture with accurate measurements of a peq15 with mro from the bore line if you'd like me to send it to you
No need, I have them now.
@@KineticConsulting ok cool. Someone off p&s posted a nice muzzle picture with measurements displayed.
@@crunchyknees3622 I have an MRO and peq but it will change slightly depending on mounts and uppers
@@KineticConsulting right. I forgot about rail sizing. I think it's from a mk16 rail
@@crunchyknees3622 PO
Could you use a laser bore sighter and measure your laser dots at 3 different distances from center bore laser
Hi, So what will you recommend if I shoot from 5 yards up to 200 yards? Parallel or convergent? Because in case that I have zero on 50 yards in the dead center I will definitely have a big miss on 200 yards.
I would converge at 100. Parallel will work well too but it will take you a lot longer to achieve
@@KineticConsulting Big thanks
@@yurecc177 A converging/overlapping zero of your IR laser/RDS at the furthest distance you can see is the best. Think of it this way start with 2 points 1.5 inches away from each other, now draw both lines to converge at 1000 meters (random number). The 2 points never crossed and only got closer together starting at 1.5 inches (widest point) until they met at 1,000 meters.
@@munnyshot8301 This was incredibly easy to understand and apply, it makes converging/overlapping zero seem to be more efficient. But to each shooter their own. Thanks again. Do you have to zero the IR laser and the Vis laser separate? Im very vanilla with this process
With a converging zero, wouldn’t your laser diverge up and left after the zero point? Because you are adjusting the laser up to meet you optic, not down to meet your bullet flight.
I use a 200 yard converging laser zero with a 50/200 optic zero, and hits out to 300 are always within a few inches of my optic because of the bullet flight. At 200, my optic, laser, and POI are the same. After 300, the bullet drops more dramatically while the laser continues up and left.
If you're converging everything at the same distance, then actually your optic is being dialed to where your Barrel is and your laser would be dialed to the same spot. The reason it diverges down and left is because the angle at which you set the laser to that point of convergence which is your impact at 200. The reason it is high and left of your 300 yd is because of the point of Impact being low due to the zero. The laser is low and left from the optic, high and left from bullet impact if that makes sense. Overall the lasers probably around 10 to 12 inches wide at 300 yd and is probably taking up all that space anyways
No Dbal D2 target? I see you only did one for the A3
It's the same as the A3 if I remember correctly
Contact Kenetic consulting for all your graphic and sound effect needs 🤙🏼
Lol standard me
at 13:42, I believe your image is wrong, I say this because I don't believe you took bullet drop in to account. The laser should actually be higher than where the rounds land, as the laser will always have a straight line where as the bullet will have a curved trajectory. If you zero at a 300M target, and transition to a 50m target (referencing US Army range qualification targets for my example), you would aim near the base of the 50m target, because your round will have a higher point of impact at 50m.
fucking achieve greatness!
At what range does a laser lose its advantage?
that photo though...
You almost always want to set your laser to converge at the longest yardage that you would be shooting
I was thinking the same. I would say a 300m zero would be best!
Great explanation. A bore sighter helps a lot to start zeroing before taking into consideration the bullet drop. If you don’t have one, direct bore sighting (bolt actions) put you on paper pretty quickly too.
If you bring a gun vise to the range, it makes the process of adjusting the laser without moving the barrel alignment much easier. This is specially useful if you don’t have a buddy to help you.
For me, parallel is the way to go, even for short ranges and pistols. If I were to use a converging zero, I would try to place it as far away as possible.
How short can u go parallel? Is it good for cqb?
I'm setting mine up bottom side of rifle with a low profile mlok laser, distance from center of barrel to center of laser is .9 almost 1 inch. It will stay that way until bullet drop@@clayowens4176
My train of thought was parallel to your thinking but then your dissertation began to show signs of converging at a length of almost a 30 minutes so I started to diverge away from the whole damn presentation and fell asleep on my tripod. You are too windy bro! Learn how to dial in on your message without the soliloquy please. On another note, if I need to kick a two point conversion at 50 yards can it be done with one football or do I need to kick five rounds. If so, do I get to use all my own footballs or should I allow the opposing team to supply a couple balls and should I have the place holder use a parallel hold and does it matter which way he turns the threads?
RE @17:00 parallel zero being time-consuming, shot a 25 yard group first ( group size should be ~ .25" ), then adjust your visible laser with regard to that group. Verify by shooting with your visible laser.
All i needed to understand why parallel and not converging
It's not an either/or. It's a choose what works for you.
@@KineticConsulting I've ordered a Vortex impact 4000 and this video helps me understand a lot. The parallel option means that the distance between the laser line and the line of sight is small for best accuracy on small targets.
The convergence option is excellent, but is most accurate at zero distance, but beyond or below that the laser may not be pointed at the target to get the best distance.
@@KineticConsulting I've ordered a Vortex impact 4000 and this video helps me understand a lot. The parallel option means that the distance between the laser line and the line of sight must be small for best accuracy on small targets.
The convergence option is excellent, but is most accurate at zero distance, but beyond or below that the laser may not be pointed at the target to get the best distance.
Mission dictates everything. If you’re clearing houses or generally focusing on close range engagements, your approach to zeroing should differ from someone expecting medium to long range threats (200m and beyond). Unfortunately most US military units will be forced to conduct a “simulated “ zero at 25m due to time and range constraints.
Christopher Schmidt most “well trained” units aren’t using a ir laser for room clearing most train for squaring up to target and holding level at chest height and letting a couple rip, due to the fact that in close quarters gunning it’s not about who’s more accurate but who gets the first rounds off, also if you do what I mentioned above and train for it you can be pretty precise just off muscle memory, and faster than trying to find those stupid ir lasers that are going flash out your nods in a small room anyway
@@johngarlick7115 I was originally taught to point with your support thumb to make fast hits within 50 meters. Now using your CCO is what is required, but your situation will dictate your course of action.
@@johngarlick7115 that’s a slippery slope most well trained units are prepared for this kinda of thing and they still use there IR lasers most of the time from rangers to green berets they try to prepare for it what you mentioned is a method but it’s not used if it doesn’t have to be
@@smoovedave well as person that did 10 years in one of those operational units you mentioned I can tell you we trained without lasers 2 reasons making that so first as I mentioned it is an added step in getting a shot off and those that are last are dead in close quarters 2. We are not the only people with night vision which with that laser on makes you a target and takes away any element of surprise you had as it’s like a giant homing beacon hence why most unit stopped wearing ir strobes and turning them on unless needing to be located the main thing we used the ir lasers for is for signaling either lassoing trans in or signaling other elements when we had to keep frequencies clear
@@johngarlick7115 I’ll tell you by having experience just like yours that they are still alive and well for usage outside of lassoing in we have definitely still used them for other things but I agree with most of what you have said through “lost property books” and “shipment doors” being left open our usual adversaries have had night vision for a while now and strobes and other things have been either down played or just not used at all anymore but for regular ops they are still used (10th)
I do converging @ 100 meters. 👍🏽
Why not use a converging zero, but cant your rifle so the laser is at 12 o’clock. That way your laser zero is the same or similar to like a regular battle zero
That's totally usable. Just remember that canting has a limit.
@@KineticConsulting got it, no gangster shooting with the laser 👍🏼
@@bishopm4401 I would say it's limited, not a no go
The dislike ratio be strong on this one.
A laser is a sight, zero your laser the same way you zero a sight. I prefer a 200 yard zero because I have a 12 o'clock mount. The reason why 1000 doesn't work is because you are at 67 inch high at 100.
no, no its not.
@@josephcoates879 please explain how? The poa on an optical sight is fixed point that does not drop with gravity or that gets blown by wind. How is this different than a laser?
40 dudes in 3 hrs is 4.5 min per dude.
Should have been 15 minutes
If you don't like "good enough"; how bout "Afghan good enough"???? Lol
The big time "operator" intro is not needed or are you trying to impress your viewers?