Even if they did answer your question it would be wrong.I have emails of them arguing with me, trying to tell me my 92 f150 has rear disk breaks. They are drums, I even sent a picture of the drums to the idiot and he said that's not a 92 f150. They are about as useful as a bag of dicks
@@demogorilla ha ha. I remember that night. I was drunk and still pissed off from the night before, when that happened. Actually I'm pretty sure my English teacher would smack me in the back of the head.
Cmon y’all this is the first UA-cam video I’ve seen in a long time that got straight to the point without an entire life story and history of the channel. Good job dude!
Shorties do have easier bends than cast manifolds and they alsonhave larger primaries typically than LT. for drivability shorties typically offer more benefit than LT especially in a truck where low end is more desired than top end. You will see an improvement below peak torque with shorties verses simply a higher number at peak torque with LT. it really comes down to how high your engine revs past peak torque and how often you drive past peak torque.
Completely false that shorties are better down low vs long tubes. Quality long tube headers that are appropriately sized for the engine, will outperform shorties at ALL rpm ranges.
@@nickwebb9937 to some extent. But it REALLY varies based on the engine we are talking about. Pretty much any late model v-8, comes stock with cast manifolds that are damn near shorties anyway. The GM LS based truck engines are a great example of this. Shorties will gain almost nothing, if they do actually gain anything. Longtubes can be a pretty obvious change, assuming they are appropriately sized. I personally would not go through the effort of swapping out the manifolds, unless you have one that is cracked for instance. In that case, you have to pull stuff apart anyway, no harm in replacing the cast parts with some short tubes. I have done this very thing for that reason. More recently, I put some longtubes on a Vortec Max 6.0, the difference was pretty big. The most noticeable part was actually under the curve, not at peak.
wlabishler 1 it all comes down to application. On my 86 Bronco here in California shorty’s are my best bet. I can’t stroke my motor or do much to it at all aside from heads and a mild cam (my efi is antique and I have smog to deal with). Sure they more closely resemble manifolds, especially in newer cars, but 80’s motors were literally strangled to death. Shorties will be a huge upgrade over my stock manifolds and it lets me still run my cats and everything from a stock location, and I get better torque over stock.
I put shorty headers on my 90 k1500 and did get a "seat of the pants" performance increase over the stock manifolds. It is a tow vehicle so I need the low end torque and bottom end. So for the cost of replacement I am very happy. Not to mention the installation was a breeze.
Brian Samuels long tube give low end power cause they flow better. That already gives more power and I never had to remove my starter to put headers on my 83 k5 blazer
thomas hayes did you notice more low end power with long tubes? They said that short tubes are for low end power but I want long tubes because I want more power at high rpms and I don’t want to loose low end power. :-)
You can help the shorty tubes scavenge better by putting a fueling pinch in the header tubes with in about 6 to 8 in of the cylinder head. I've seen it done with a lot of success especially on things like Harley engines.
u didnt waste your money. where do you spend most of your driving rpm at?? not at the top end so u are getting what u paid for. long tubes are good if u drive your car wide open a lot, other than that u dont get the benefit of the long tube headers. just my opinion for an everyday driver shorties of mid length is the way to go
Sean Hamre thanks! Yeah I mean I never even go to the track or anything I just daily drive and occasionally I’ll race someone but it’s literally nothing above 60 mph anyway. If I do it’s just red light races from a stop
On my Mustangs I noticed way more torque. More power at the top end from the long tube headers. I've had multiple cars with each and if I ever build another car it will definitely be long tube.
I put zoomies on my 2.3L ranger. They stick out of the fender on the passenger side and are about 20 inches long. Don't know if it did anything for power, but it sounds badass!!
I've had a set of long tubes on my '68 C10 327 since 2006 when I had rebuilt my motor. Fortunately I had plenty of room to install them. Never had an issue overheating the starter. At the 2:20 mark I've scraped my header flanges at times, and my truck is at stock height. I'll have to replace my headers with the short tubes or a set of ram horns when I perform the 4/6 drop.
I've got tuned shorties on my 2015 SS 1/LE, love the low end. I've often wondered if I should have done the long tubes - now I think I made the right move. GREAT explanation. It's still on the stock exhaust from the mid back, but I do like the sound, don't think I'll ever go full aftermarket. Chevy did start adding the X-pipe on the 2016s and newer, so I am getting ready to do that. Looking forward to the possible scavenge gains and the sound!
I’m with you man. I have shorties on a Saleen S281 and the Low end torque will glue you to your seat. I did lose on highways gains but there’s something special about hitting 70 mph in second gear in 5 seconds!
I have longtube hookers headers on my 1977 torch red vette.On older cars headers are sick.I would not put them on a modern car,My car is 44 years old,I also put on a high performance exhaust manifold,and flowmaster 40 mufflers.It sound awesome.added about 22 more horsepower,but i did it for the sound,the sound rocks the house for sure.thanks russ.
Stock replacements ? So people buy shortys thinking their getting performance Parts when their just replacing the OEM style headers? There has to be some benefit for shorties other then placement issues. are for just looks.
Derpy Derp maybe 3-5 hp but I've been researching aftermarket parts for about 4-5 years..especially since I've had a couple of mustangs (2 currently). I've talked with professionals as well as other car enthusiast. If one really wants aftermarket headers for performance, long tubes is the way to go. Depending for what vehicle, it could range from $200-1,000) and get gains (again depending what vehicle) from 15-30 HP. Shorties would open up your exhaust system...but nothing like long tubes. And if you happen to go for some...go ceramic headers because they will last you longer then ordinary chrome finish.
CRUZ_GT chrome don’t get you home. Wow that’s awesome information. I bought headmen headers for my 289 and they are awesome I can feel the difference when I hit the gas from when I had the OEM factory headers on. Huge difference. I can imagine the open ports the long tube give. I will defiantly get some
Leon Garza long tubes , you'd need to weld the Flowmaster to your midpipe (basically switch your stock muffler to that Flowmaster one) but your midpipe might be smaller due to the long tubes
@@booniekc heres the deal if your headers run close to the starter they make self stick heat rejection mat. While your starters out install it around the starter motor. You can also get fiberglass like material made into a tube you can slip over wires that run near the headers. You can make a heat sheild out of some old coffee cans or soup cans. The thing is to look at how close stuffs going to be and fix it before you melt stuff or heat soak your starter.
The school of thought I have been told is Long Tubes for air flow. Long Tubes help your car breath and flow air through your system. The more air through, the more power you make, that is why you lose some torque on the low end, you don't get the back pressure that you get with shorties, that is why Long Tubes are boss for upper RPM range. If you are getting top end work done; Cam, super/procharger, bigger pistons, etc, then Long Tubes are the way to go. If you are planning those mods in the future, then long tubes are the way to go.
All this is great news for older less complicated engines and car systems, but for those new cars which have fuel injection systems and have a lot of electrical systems under the hood, you need to consider what benefits you will get and what the cost of those benefits will be after changing the factory headers to 4 into 1's or Try y headers, in fact the best ones to use is based on how you drive the new car, so basically if you want more HP down low range ie: 1,500 to around the 4 K mark then use try y headers or shortys, but if your going to track days a lot or street drags, then 4 into 14 would be best, but dont forget, then most tunner places will say you need 4 into 1 headers, but what they dont tell you is they will tune your engine to the headers and thus you engine will make approx 50 HP at the rear wheels for a new Chevy SS for example, but also they dont tell you you need the rest of the system as well, meaning the CATS and CAT back system installed as well, but in reality you will get just as much HP just by a tune of the same engine, they will not tell you this because the business is about selling the headers and also they do not tell you that the headers need ceramic coating due to the extreme heat under the hood and how close your electrical system,s are to the headers especially the chevy Ss which has electrical steering system. So please make sure if your going to get Headers for your car to kook if the model comes out with factory performance headers for the same make and model of your car, like for example the holden SS o chevy SS has HSB or holden special Veichacl which then you can by the HSV headers which come out with TRY Y headers on some models and will give your just as much performance but cost you only 1/4 of the price and specially if get the same try y headers from HSV and have them ceramic coated :)
There is no rule to which is better. It depends on what you want to achieve. Headers can be tuned to the engine so changing primary diameters , length and merge type can affect the torque and hp significantly. There is a point where at higher Rpms a mid length header will outperform a longtube header for peak power as then velocity can remain higher with the scavenging effect instead of slowing down in their individual tubes before merging. All depends on the primary diameter, length, size and displacement and rpm of the engine .. so many variables to consider.
Wait. First you say there's no rule to which is better but then go on to say one is better than another depending on application. Therefore there is a rule to which is better. Even the video says one is better than another depending on application.
He should have mentioned, the more an engine is built the more important it becomes to use high quality long tube headers, I've been building 600 horse 2nd gen LT1road racing engines, the build is not complete until a good set of long tube headers go on.
The way it was explained to me not too long ago is that before computer modeling and flow profiling this was a general rule and if one stuck to it would generally do well. But it seems that with the advancement of technology the ability to design and build better flowing headers have made short style headers less of a handicap these days so much so that unless you are running an all out dragster a short style header should be all most people can truly benefit from. Am I misinformed?
D N , shortys provide lower rpm power, long tube work better mid to high rpm. Check out Billy Nees. He runs NHRA n/sa with a grand prix with a 301 and has a few good articles on header and collector lengths.
Yea, for racing high rpm applications, I understand that, but a lot of guys put them on their street and on/off road vehicles. I am just saying for people who have vehicles that are dual purpose these days a good set of shorties should be fine right? Unless you are doing 7,000+ rpm regularly?
D N long tubes are great for MID to high rpm. Mid rpm is roughly 3000 rpm give or take high rpm is about 6-6500 rpm. Shortys are good for off idle to low rpm 1500-2000rpm. Do you spend a lot of time at at lower rpms in over drive? Or do you have a 4 speed with 4.10s and cruise at around 3000 rip'ems? Either choice is an improvemet, it all depends on your application and what you want.
Kyore watch this video in fact if you don't want to watch the whole thing go to around the 15 min mark. They tested a bunch of long tubes than the end they throw on a set of shorties for shits and giggles guess what? torque and HP down on the whole rpm band low end to top so wheres the gains in torque on low end with shorties? ua-cam.com/video/O1bXPNy1Yn4/v-deo.html
If you are doing it for more power for towing/hauling, I would recommend the shorty. If you are doing it for performance, I would recommend the full length.
*PTSD FLASHBACK* after seeing the Driver's side shorty header on the right and remembering my SBC S10 square body days with the steering shaft that had to go in between the header tubes and learning the hard way that I should have also installed solid motor mounts rather than old rubber x-member side mounts (huge pee shiver...rr...rrr...)
Purchase a set of Tri-Y headers. The Tri-Y is certainly more expensive but if you intend to keep your vehicle for longer than 3 years. Spend the extra money , you will not regret the expense. Go to either Doug Thorley or Stans Headers. I have both on my 95 and 98 4wheel drive chevy trucks. Five plus years spring summer winter and fall. No issues what so ever. That is the difference between a $1000 header and a $250 header.
First and most important do research and pay attention to recommendations . Long tube header will not cause torque loss unless you do not pay attention to size recommendations . Lets say you have a choice of a 1 3/4 primary or a 1 7/8 primary and the 1 3/4 is recommended for stock engines. If you use the 1 7/8 you will have a torque loss and since your engine being stock will not take advantage of hi speed use from big headers. Next brand of header makes BIG difference . After damaging my hooker comp headers I replaced them with a lesser brand of the same size . Big mistake I lost 1000 rpm on top end and engine started missing which required retuning to stop the missing but I did not get the 1000 rpm back. I always make my own mufflers but the new stuff has gotten much better. If you run full exhaust to rear of car you will always lose hi rpm power. On race track you should have a tube added to back of header same size as collector but it should be tuned . To tune tube on collector start with a length of 20"" and take a tire crayon and draw a straight line down it's full length . Make a couple of passes then cut tube wear burn mark stops. Then rejet carb if injected it should retune itself . Always follow manufacturers recommendations most of the time they know there stuff better than you . Ok guy's now go smokem .
Given that the shorty headers provide less pulse vacuum internally, would it be a good idea to increase the diameter of the exhaust system from 2.5 to 3.0 inches to provide better top end?
My opinion shorties are good for trucks that 2500 rpm is where mine usually stays on highway unlock a car or stick shift can get higher rpm would go long tube just my take on it
I would go with shorty headers both for ground clearance especially with portal axles etc and because low end power will be better for rock crawling and towing which. If you are looking for road racing performance I stead of off-road though it might be worth getting the long tubes.
So if I'm looking for more torque for a truck application (no Baja or racing, mainly for getting over stuff (overlanding)) would shorty headers meet the mark? Eventually considering force induction, but haven't crossed that road yet
Shorty header would meet your goals just fine if you're looking for improved low-end power. Adding a supercharger will dramatically increase power across the entire rpm range. It will also require improved exhaust flow, and you may want to consider using a header with larger primaries.
In some cases , Shorty headers can only be used , The object is to get rid of the exhaust as quickly as possible , every engine is simply a Air Pump , air comes in , gets compressed , then is sent out , the faster it does this , the more power it produces , Restrict either one and power lost
What size diameter of headers will be best for my application? 85 Square Body w/355 & 400TH. The motor will make approximately 385 HP. I have Vortec Heads and would like to be able to have access to change my plugs easily. Will long tubes be difficult to change the plugs?
On modern cars not so much. Only because modern Manifolds are pretty good. On Old muscle cars it's a huge difference like 20+hp/ torque. They will look good on your car. and they do tend to increase low end torque on most cars. I think the Summit guy just wants you to spend more money. Long tubes suck for speed bumps and driveways.
LS1 swap 5.3l L59, PCM flashed for LS swap into 69 camaro: problem- backfiring in exhaust tube. Yes I have longtube headers. Passenger side running 50 - 100 hotter then driverside. Any ideas?
The A body mopars imported to my country are all RHD so to try avoiding the steering box I have long headers on the passenger side and short headers on the drivers side, will this damage my motor ? It's a stock 318La small block . ?
1st Gen Tundra, no lift, mostly used for truck bed camping, and to replace factory broken manifold or short factory header? Should I go long or short? 4.7 2000 model
Have a 67 base model Cougar with single exhaust. Don't know much about it. I dont race the the car but looking for little more power and better sound. It's a 289 4 b. What would you suggest?
I am only considering shorty headers because dorman cast iron manifolds are onlyblasting about 2 yrs and cracking. I dont want a louder exhaust. Will my exhsust be louder if I bolt these to my stock exhaust?
Would it make sense to get a cam optimized for high RPM if I get a shorty header and if i got a long tube headers i would want a cam optimized for low rpm power?
Hello, I have a Chevy truck with a 350 engine and I want to put some headers on it, which one do you recommend and which brand? I have it for daily use
Hey! Great video’ i have a Gm crate engine 350. 1year old. Driven 2000 km since first startup. It has a 262 comp cam. Edelbrock eps intake #2701 and The edelbrock 500carb #1403. I am thinking about goin for The headers from Summit G9006? How much horsepower will it Get close to? You have any other suggestions AS far as increasing The overall performance?
@@GCANDY100 yea, headers are probably the best bang for bucks your going to get...I know you already know cams, heads and superchargers are a great way to increase horsepower but they can get expensive.
This video is riddled with garbage information. 0:43 show me a dyno of where a shorty outperforms a long tube (or even oem manifold) at low end. Also long tube fitment is a non-issue on a quality header. But summit sells junk like pacesetters, so it may be true from their perspective.
Have you made a video on the benefits of shorty headers vs stock manifolds? You said those perform more like stock, but are they worth buying aside from looks alone?
02 Silverado 1500 4wd. Dailey driver. Plan on installing a 222/224 cam, and upgrading timing chain, lifters, pushrods, rockers, springs, intake, and throttle body. Also plan on installing a cold air intake. I don't drive wide open hardly. Would shorties be better for me?
I have a 2005 Chevrolet Silverado 1500 crew cab LS v8 5.3 LM7 325 cubic inch engine and I want to get headers for it, but I don't know if I want long or shortly tube headers as well as my biggest problem is that I don't know exactly what size headers I need so I don't order the wrong size headers for them to not fit my truck.
What is the difference between running long tube headers and running short tube headers with test pipes it's pretty much the same thing as long tube headers right
Looking into shortys vs current long tube Hookers for my '66 Stang. The car has the shorter 1" drop coils and the problem is the collectors scrape the wider speed bumps and they're kinda close to the fuel and brake lines. Any suggestion on brands?
A shorty header should free up some ground clearance. www.summitracing.com/search/part-type/headers/year/1966/make/ford/model/mustang/header-style/shorty?N=header-style%3Ashorty
Running a Blown and Sprayed 383. My present headers are full length with 2" primaries and a 3-1/2 collector. It's all stuffed into a Vega. With all that's said about short headers can I find a pair that will work for my application. Trying to gain ground clearance and engine bay clearance. Thanks.
So I have a 95 Chevy 5.7 v8 tbi. I feel like shorty headers would be better for a daily driver. I don’t drive it everyday but I drive or weekly. Would it be more efficient to use shortys?
Ok so I want to long tubes for my 08 Silverado but will I have to remove a lot of stuff if anything? If so what? I have a flow master aftermarket exhaust that starts at the cat back will it fit to this?
I have 57 Ranchero w/390FE. The stock header just barely clear the steering gear box. I want long tube do I have to go custom or is there a long tube that will clear my steering box
Hi there, I need to place an o2 sensor for my efi. If I use short headers will I neet to position the sensor fuher down the merge of the tubes compared to stock or long headers? Thanks
I have a 2010 ford f150 5.4 with a flowmaster catback dual exhaust and a K&N 57 series cold air intake. I'm curious if I could do long tube headers with this configuration or should I stick to shorty headers? I'm also going to do a tune with this header install.
Hello! My name is Nicholas and I currently own a 2011 Ram 1500 Big horn. I have the hemi tick with either the lifter issue or broken exhaust bolts. I am currently looking into replacing the manifold with long tube headers. Do you have any advice as to how to prevent the bolts from breaking or any recommendations? Do you have any recommendations on any long tube headers?
I'm looking for a set of long tube headers I can force be with the z bar can you give me the part number or do you even make them appreciate it thank you
My biggest concern is fitment on a 289 66 mustang coupe. I would go with the shortys if need be, but would prefer long tube. I have an AOD tranny in there, that creates a bit of a problem. What would you guys suggest?
I'm looking for a shorty header for my 1987 Chevy 1/2 ton 4 wheel drive with TBI. I have a cracked head so I've decided to go with new DART 127221 72cc chamber heads upping compression just a bit. Basically wanting a 350hp/and lots of torque, very streetable with pump gas. In fact this will be a farm truck/trailer hauler near term and project truck long term. Also getting rid of the TBI and all of the emissions and crappy exhaust manifolds. The body of this truck is in near perfect condition short of needing new paint.(and everyone who sees it tries to buy it) Hence the reason spending some money on the engine.
Those heads are standard port in stock the location. I recommend 1 5/8” primary tubes headers. www.summitracing.com/parts/snh-cc3158-p/make/chevrolet/year/1987 or www.summitracing.com/parts/snh-cc3158-sec/make/chevrolet/year/1987
so if i change my manifold and ported throttle and it gives me mid range and top end gains do you go with short headers for the idle to mid range power up front or long and basically just gain everything from mid to top end ?
I own a 2008 Chevy Silverado Max Vortec. It is currently tuned and has K/N cold air intake with a Magnaflow Muffler. Should i go for long tube or shorty headers? Oh also it is one of those dropped down trucks.
Here is a link to the headers we offer for your application: 1999 Chevy Suburban Shorty Headers. www.summitracing.com/search/part-type/headers/year/1999/make/chevrolet/model/c1500-suburban/engine-size/5-7l-350/engine-family/chevy-small-block-gen-i?N=header-style%3Ashorty&SortBy=Default&SortOrder=Ascending&keyword=headers&kr=headers
What do you guys recommend for a 1996 Chevy Silverado c1500 5.0 I don’t really know what camshaft to buy and if I should buy long tubes or shorties ? Let me know
I like how at 3:15 he says "if you have questions, ask them in the comment section below" but then not a single reply to any of the questions.
If it's about the #exhaustpipe, I might be able to help you
Even if they did answer your question it would be wrong.I have emails of them arguing with me, trying to tell me my 92 f150 has rear disk breaks. They are drums, I even sent a picture of the drums to the idiot and he said that's not a 92 f150. They are about as useful as a bag of dicks
Chris Lesemann cause they have a bunch of 20 year old guys with no common sense working with them
@@Akhazmat907 as useless as your spelling teacher. Hahaha
@@demogorilla ha ha. I remember that night. I was drunk and still pissed off from the night before, when that happened. Actually I'm pretty sure my English teacher would smack me in the back of the head.
Cmon y’all this is the first UA-cam video I’ve seen in a long time that got straight to the point without an entire life story and history of the channel. Good job dude!
Shorties do have easier bends than cast manifolds and they alsonhave larger primaries typically than LT. for drivability shorties typically offer more benefit than LT especially in a truck where low end is more desired than top end. You will see an improvement below peak torque with shorties verses simply a higher number at peak torque with LT. it really comes down to how high your engine revs past peak torque and how often you drive past peak torque.
Completely false that shorties are better down low vs long tubes. Quality long tube headers that are appropriately sized for the engine, will outperform shorties at ALL rpm ranges.
wlabishler 1 yea but shortys will still help in the low end
@@nickwebb9937 to some extent. But it REALLY varies based on the engine we are talking about. Pretty much any late model v-8, comes stock with cast manifolds that are damn near shorties anyway. The GM LS based truck engines are a great example of this. Shorties will gain almost nothing, if they do actually gain anything. Longtubes can be a pretty obvious change, assuming they are appropriately sized. I personally would not go through the effort of swapping out the manifolds, unless you have one that is cracked for instance. In that case, you have to pull stuff apart anyway, no harm in replacing the cast parts with some short tubes. I have done this very thing for that reason. More recently, I put some longtubes on a Vortec Max 6.0, the difference was pretty big. The most noticeable part was actually under the curve, not at peak.
wlabishler 1 yea I put shortys on my 91 c1500 it helped a bit but the manifolds on it were very restricted
wlabishler 1 it all comes down to application. On my 86 Bronco here in California shorty’s are my best bet. I can’t stroke my motor or do much to it at all aside from heads and a mild cam (my efi is antique and I have smog to deal with). Sure they more closely resemble manifolds, especially in newer cars, but 80’s motors were literally strangled to death. Shorties will be a huge upgrade over my stock manifolds and it lets me still run my cats and everything from a stock location, and I get better torque over stock.
I put shorty headers on my 90 k1500 and did get a "seat of the pants" performance increase over the stock manifolds. It is a tow vehicle so I need the low end torque and bottom end. So for the cost of replacement I am very happy. Not to mention the installation was a breeze.
Long tube makes more power! Shorty's are good for fitment problems.
Brian Samuels long tube give low end power cause they flow better. That already gives more power and I never had to remove my starter to put headers on my 83 k5 blazer
thomas hayes did you notice more low end power with long tubes? They said that short tubes are for low end power but I want long tubes because I want more power at high rpms and I don’t want to loose low end power. :-)
So what's good for torque then in a 85 C30 with a big block? Needs to be set up for smog system btw.
@@SOU6900 just get 1-3/4" long tubes for the 454. You can get them with a 02 bung for the sensor. This is the header you want trust me.
@@jrod264winmag but she doesn't use an o2 sensor...
You can help the shorty tubes scavenge better by putting a fueling pinch in the header tubes with in about 6 to 8 in of the cylinder head. I've seen it done with a lot of success especially on things like Harley engines.
What is a fueling pinch?
Looks like I wasted money on shorty headers. Oh well. The deeper tone to my exhaust and the better response in the low end is quite nice though
Tony 3.7 I've got a 3.7 as well. Don't worry. MPT says that shorties do add airflow.
u didnt waste your money. where do you spend most of your driving rpm at?? not at the top end so u are getting what u paid for. long tubes are good if u drive your car wide open a lot, other than that u dont get the benefit of the long tube headers. just my opinion for an everyday driver shorties of mid length is the way to go
Sean Hamre thanks! Yeah I mean I never even go to the track or anything I just daily drive and occasionally I’ll race someone but it’s literally nothing above 60 mph anyway. If I do it’s just red light races from a stop
Sorry noob question but what does low end mean here is that referring to low rpm?
Santos Guerra yes low end rpm's
On my Mustangs I noticed way more torque. More power at the top end from the long tube headers. I've had multiple cars with each and if I ever build another car it will definitely be long tube.
Even more power buy swapping in a bow tie ;)
You know your serious when you run long tube headers!!
I put zoomies on my 2.3L ranger. They stick out of the fender on the passenger side and are about 20 inches long. Don't know if it did anything for power, but it sounds badass!!
I've had a set of long tubes on my '68 C10 327 since 2006 when I had rebuilt my motor.
Fortunately I had plenty of room to install them. Never had an issue overheating the starter. At the 2:20 mark I've scraped my header flanges at times, and my truck is at stock height. I'll have to replace my headers with the short tubes or a set of ram horns when I perform the 4/6 drop.
Thank you for watching, Robert!
I've got tuned shorties on my 2015 SS 1/LE, love the low end. I've often wondered if I should have done the long tubes - now I think I made the right move. GREAT explanation. It's still on the stock exhaust from the mid back, but I do like the sound, don't think I'll ever go full aftermarket. Chevy did start adding the X-pipe on the 2016s and newer, so I am getting ready to do that. Looking forward to the possible scavenge gains and the sound!
Thank you for watching, Nick!
I’m with you man. I have shorties on a Saleen S281 and the Low end torque will glue you to your seat. I did lose on highways gains but there’s something special about hitting 70 mph in second gear in 5 seconds!
I have longtube hookers headers on my 1977 torch red vette.On older cars headers are sick.I would not put them on a modern car,My car is 44 years old,I also put on a high performance exhaust manifold,and flowmaster 40 mufflers.It sound awesome.added about 22 more horsepower,but i did it for the sound,the sound rocks the house for sure.thanks russ.
Thank you for your feedback, Russell! I bet that does sound nice.
Long tubes = More expensive but better Performance
Shorties = Lower cost but only good for appearance & stock replacement
Stock replacements ? So people buy shortys thinking their getting performance
Parts when their just replacing the OEM style headers?
There has to be some benefit for shorties other then placement issues.
are for just looks.
Derpy Derp maybe 3-5 hp but I've been researching aftermarket parts for about 4-5 years..especially since I've had a couple of mustangs (2 currently). I've talked with professionals as well as other car enthusiast. If one really wants aftermarket headers for performance, long tubes is the way to go. Depending for what vehicle, it could range from $200-1,000) and get gains (again depending what vehicle) from 15-30 HP. Shorties would open up your exhaust system...but nothing like long tubes. And if you happen to go for some...go ceramic headers because they will last you longer then ordinary chrome finish.
CRUZ_GT chrome don’t get you home.
Wow that’s awesome information. I bought headmen headers for my 289 and they are awesome I can feel the difference when I hit the gas from when I had the OEM factory headers on. Huge difference. I can imagine the open ports the long tube give. I will defiantly get some
CRUZ_GT I just got my grandpa's truck running it's a GMC 1998 Sierra 2500 350 motor what kind of headers should I get to fit the Flowmaster super 44
Leon Garza long tubes , you'd need to weld the Flowmaster to your midpipe (basically switch your stock muffler to that Flowmaster one) but your midpipe might be smaller due to the long tubes
I’ll go for shortys. My long tubes keep heating my starter. And cooking my wires
sal alvarez I just got shortys
What kind of car u got? Will it do that to my 97 camaro?
@erik torres Don't drive in the rain or in water. Problem solved.
@@kenshinhimura9387 If it's even sitting out overnight moisture will build up.
@@booniekc heres the deal if your headers run close to the starter they make self stick heat rejection mat. While your starters out install it around the starter motor. You can also get fiberglass like material made into a tube you can slip over wires that run near the headers. You can make a heat sheild out of some old coffee cans or soup cans. The thing is to look at how close stuffs going to be and fix it before you melt stuff or heat soak your starter.
Summary. Long tubes arent always bolt on but make more mid range to high end power. Shorties are better for fitment and some low end torque
The school of thought I have been told is Long Tubes for air flow. Long Tubes help your car breath and flow air through your system. The more air through, the more power you make, that is why you lose some torque on the low end, you don't get the back pressure that you get with shorties, that is why Long Tubes are boss for upper RPM range. If you are getting top end work done; Cam, super/procharger, bigger pistons, etc, then Long Tubes are the way to go. If you are planning those mods in the future, then long tubes are the way to go.
Back pressure is detrimental to performance. It's all about the velocity and CFM of the exhaust.
Another idiot misusing the term backpressure as if engines like a certain amount lol
ua-cam.com/video/jPdwpqHz-RY/v-deo.html
That intro, I heard that v8 sound from rev heads phone app.
SilverHoof01
I agree
All this is great news for older less complicated engines and car systems, but for those new cars which have fuel injection systems and have a lot of electrical systems under the hood, you need to consider what benefits you will get and what the cost of those benefits will be after changing the factory headers to 4 into 1's or Try y headers, in fact the best ones to use is based on how you drive the new car, so basically if you want more HP down low range ie: 1,500 to around the 4 K mark then use try y headers or shortys, but if your going to track days a lot or street drags, then 4 into 14 would be best, but dont forget, then most tunner places will say you need 4 into 1 headers, but what they dont tell you is they will tune your engine to the headers and thus you engine will make approx 50 HP at the rear wheels for a new Chevy SS for example, but also they dont tell you you need the rest of the system as well, meaning the CATS and CAT back system installed as well, but in reality you will get just as much HP just by a tune of the same engine, they will not tell you this because the business is about selling the headers and also they do not tell you that the headers need ceramic coating due to the extreme heat under the hood and how close your electrical system,s are to the headers especially the chevy Ss which has electrical steering system. So please make sure if your going to get Headers for your car to kook if the model comes out with factory performance headers for the same make and model of your car, like for example the holden SS o chevy SS has HSB or holden special Veichacl which then you can by the HSV headers which come out with TRY Y headers on some models and will give your just as much performance but cost you only 1/4 of the price and specially if get the same try y headers from HSV and have them ceramic coated :)
Vacuum scavenging.. very interesting. Thanks for the info! Will probably be a long while before I look into getting any of these.
There is no rule to which is better. It depends on what you want to achieve. Headers can be tuned to the engine so changing primary diameters , length and merge type can affect the torque and hp significantly. There is a point where at higher Rpms a mid length header will outperform a longtube header for peak power as then velocity can remain higher with the scavenging effect instead of slowing down in their individual tubes before merging. All depends on the primary diameter, length, size and displacement and rpm of the engine .. so many variables to consider.
5abivt is
Wait. First you say there's no rule to which is better but then go on to say one is better than another depending on application. Therefore there is a rule to which is better. Even the video says one is better than another depending on application.
You're smart.
@@SedatedByLife he's saying ones not outright better then the other. Its dependant on case. Then he kinda gave an example
He should have mentioned, the more an engine is built the more important it becomes to use high quality long tube headers, I've been building 600 horse 2nd gen LT1road racing engines, the build is not complete until a good set of long tube headers go on.
Do you have a video about high flow catalytic convertors?
Thanks for explaining it in simple english
The way it was explained to me not too long ago is that before computer modeling and flow profiling this was a general rule and if one stuck to it would generally do well. But it seems that with the advancement of technology the ability to design and build better flowing headers have made short style headers less of a handicap these days so much so that unless you are running an all out dragster a short style header should be all most people can truly benefit from. Am I misinformed?
D N , shortys provide lower rpm power, long tube work better mid to high rpm.
Check out Billy Nees. He runs NHRA n/sa with a grand prix with a 301 and has a few good articles on header and collector lengths.
Yea, for racing high rpm applications, I understand that, but a lot of guys put them on their street and on/off road vehicles. I am just saying for people who have vehicles that are dual purpose these days a good set of shorties should be fine right? Unless you are doing 7,000+ rpm regularly?
D N long tubes are great for MID to high rpm. Mid rpm is roughly 3000 rpm give or take high rpm is about 6-6500 rpm. Shortys are good for off idle to low rpm 1500-2000rpm. Do you spend a lot of time at at lower rpms in over drive? Or do you have a 4 speed with 4.10s and cruise at around 3000 rip'ems? Either choice is an improvemet, it all depends on your application and what you want.
Straight to the point I like him
Thanks for watching !
Low end power, short for me it is.
Kyore watch this video in fact if you don't want to watch the whole thing go to around the 15 min mark. They tested a bunch of long tubes than the end they throw on a set of shorties for shits and giggles guess what? torque and HP down on the whole rpm band low end to top so wheres the gains in torque on low end with shorties? ua-cam.com/video/O1bXPNy1Yn4/v-deo.html
For my 4.6 2v ford which one to I wanna order from your website? I'm doing a light NA build and wanna do a full dual exhaust
If you are doing it for more power for towing/hauling, I would recommend the shorty.
If you are doing it for performance, I would recommend the full length.
*PTSD FLASHBACK* after seeing the Driver's side shorty header on the right and remembering my SBC S10 square body days with the steering shaft that had to go in between the header tubes and learning the hard way that I should have also installed solid motor mounts rather than old rubber x-member side mounts (huge pee shiver...rr...rrr...)
Purchase a set of Tri-Y headers. The Tri-Y is certainly more expensive but if you intend to keep your vehicle for longer than 3 years. Spend the extra money , you will not regret the expense. Go to either Doug Thorley or Stans Headers. I have both on my 95 and 98 4wheel drive chevy trucks. Five plus years spring summer winter and fall. No issues what so ever. That is the difference between a $1000 header and a $250 header.
Thanks Carl for clearing that up.
Thanks for watching, Spencer!
First and most important do research and pay attention to recommendations . Long tube header will not cause torque loss unless you do not pay attention to size recommendations . Lets say you have a choice of a 1 3/4 primary or a 1 7/8 primary and the 1 3/4 is recommended for stock engines. If you use the 1 7/8 you will have a torque loss and since your engine being stock will not take advantage of hi speed use from big headers. Next brand of header makes BIG difference . After damaging my hooker comp headers I replaced them with a lesser brand of the same size . Big mistake I lost 1000 rpm on top end and engine started missing which required retuning to stop the missing but I did not get the 1000 rpm back. I always make my own mufflers but the new stuff has gotten much better. If you run full exhaust to rear of car you will always lose hi rpm power. On race track you should have a tube added to back of header same size as collector but it should be tuned . To tune tube on collector start with a length of 20"" and take a tire crayon and draw a straight line down it's full length . Make a couple of passes then cut tube wear burn mark stops. Then rejet carb if injected it should retune itself . Always follow manufacturers recommendations most of the time they know there stuff better than you . Ok guy's now go smokem .
Great video! Straight to the point. Thank you!!
Thank you for watching!
Given that the shorty headers provide less pulse vacuum internally, would it be a good idea to increase the diameter of the exhaust system from 2.5 to 3.0 inches to provide better top end?
I'm about to ask for shorty headers the high flow cats go with my dual set no 🐈 X pipe 2 super 10s I'm slowly working on my truck
My opinion shorties are good for trucks that 2500 rpm is where mine usually stays on highway unlock a car or stick shift can get higher rpm would go long tube just my take on it
thanks for the videos it seems like the only downside for long tube headers is getting them to fit
No the biggest issue is with long tubes you either have to remove the cats or move them which on vehicles newer than -73 i think is illegal
I just bought some hedman shorties for my 05 Yukon. Hopefully i will be satisfied when I install them Saturday
How did install go?
@@treenutz360 He dead. Car jack failed and it fell on him.
Bobbys Dad yup R.I.P.
Velocity is key for performance in I6 engines. Which do you recommend for a Jeep 4.0 stroker for velocity?
I would go with shorty headers both for ground clearance especially with portal axles etc and because low end power will be better for rock crawling and towing which. If you are looking for road racing performance I stead of off-road though it might be worth getting the long tubes.
Shorties would do good for that. And less hassle with clearance issues
Having trouble finding a good fit for headers for a 351 fe in a 1963 galaxie. Thoughts?
So if I'm looking for more torque for a truck application (no Baja or racing, mainly for getting over stuff (overlanding)) would shorty headers meet the mark? Eventually considering force induction, but haven't crossed that road yet
Shorty header would meet your goals just fine if you're looking for improved low-end power. Adding a supercharger will dramatically increase power across the entire rpm range. It will also require improved exhaust flow, and you may want to consider using a header with larger primaries.
Whats the point and benefits of shortys then if they are almost the same as stock... so only long tubes are making sense or what?
Thanks Carl -- very informative.
Thank you for watching, Roger!
great video short and to the point !! Thank you !
In some cases , Shorty headers can only be used ,
The object is to get rid of the exhaust as quickly as possible , every engine is simply a Air Pump , air comes in , gets compressed , then is sent out , the faster it does this , the more power it produces ,
Restrict either one and power lost
What size diameter of headers will be best for my application? 85 Square Body w/355 & 400TH. The motor will make approximately 385 HP. I have Vortec Heads and would like to be able to have access to change my plugs easily. Will long tubes be difficult to change the plugs?
What if you are planning on straight piping your exhaust. Which headers would be better?
following
Long tube
Yes
Zoomies
For 1/4 mille race which header is better??
Ever find out?
So as a stand alone upgrade, the shorty header won't do much over the factory exaust manifold?
I have a 2014 Camaro SS
On modern cars not so much. Only because modern Manifolds are pretty good. On Old muscle cars it's a huge difference like 20+hp/ torque.
They will look good on your car. and they do tend to increase low end torque on most cars.
I think the Summit guy just wants you to spend more money. Long tubes suck for speed bumps and driveways.
I'm glad I bought long tube headers
Yeah, I would not even waste my $$ on shorty headers the long tubes still work down at low rpm better than stock manifolds or shortys.
LS1 swap 5.3l L59, PCM flashed for LS swap into 69 camaro: problem- backfiring in exhaust tube. Yes I have longtube headers. Passenger side running 50 - 100 hotter then driverside. Any ideas?
The A body mopars imported to my country are all RHD so to try avoiding the steering box I have long headers on the passenger side and short headers on the drivers side, will this damage my motor ? It's a stock 318La small block . ?
I have a Silverado w a 3” drop in the front and 6” in the back would this be a problem since I’m lower
Haha for sure. My 90 cought the collector on a speed bump.
1st Gen Tundra, no lift, mostly used for truck bed camping, and to replace factory broken manifold or short factory header? Should I go long or short? 4.7 2000 model
I have a 93 fleetwood all stock . I want to change or oem every thing under the hood and under the car , any suggestions?
Have a 67 base model Cougar with single exhaust. Don't know much about it. I dont race the the car but looking for little more power and better sound. It's a 289 4 b. What would you suggest?
I am only considering shorty headers because dorman cast iron manifolds are onlyblasting about 2 yrs and cracking. I dont want a louder exhaust. Will my exhsust be louder if I bolt these to my stock exhaust?
Would it make sense to get a cam optimized for high RPM if I get a shorty header and if i got a long tube headers i would want a cam optimized for low rpm power?
Got any smog headers for a 454 powered 85 C30?
I have a 1987 Chevy caprice ls with a 400 sbc would the long tube headers fit my car
Hello, I have a Chevy truck with a 350 engine and I want to put some headers on it, which one do you recommend and which brand? I have it for daily use
Hey! Great video’ i have a Gm crate engine 350. 1year old. Driven 2000 km since first startup. It has a 262 comp cam. Edelbrock eps intake #2701 and The edelbrock 500carb #1403. I am thinking about goin for The headers from Summit G9006? How much horsepower will it Get close to? You have any other suggestions AS far as increasing The overall performance?
Most headers regardless of what you have done only give you around 25 hp at the most
@@Mysterious_History1 awesome! thats plenty if you ask me!
@@GCANDY100 yea, headers are probably the best bang for bucks your going to get...I know you already know cams, heads and superchargers are a great way to increase horsepower but they can get expensive.
This video is riddled with garbage information. 0:43 show me a dyno of where a shorty outperforms a long tube (or even oem manifold) at low end.
Also long tube fitment is a non-issue on a quality header. But summit sells junk like pacesetters, so it may be true from their perspective.
Have you made a video on the benefits of shorty headers vs stock manifolds? You said those perform more like stock, but are they worth buying aside from looks alone?
02 Silverado 1500 4wd. Dailey driver. Plan on installing a 222/224 cam, and upgrading timing chain, lifters, pushrods, rockers, springs, intake, and throttle body. Also plan on installing a cold air intake. I don't drive wide open hardly. Would shorties be better for me?
Awesome explanation!
I have a 2015 Dodge Charger RT with Flowmaster Outlaw Catback which would be the best headers?
What other upgrades have you done
I have a 2005 Chevrolet Silverado 1500 crew cab LS v8 5.3 LM7 325 cubic inch engine and I want to get headers for it, but I don't know if I want long or shortly tube headers as well as my biggest problem is that I don't know exactly what size headers I need so I don't order the wrong size headers for them to not fit my truck.
2012 RAM 1500 express 5.7 HEMI, so which is better for low end grunt if you pulling trailers?
What is the difference between running long tube headers and running short tube headers with test pipes it's pretty much the same thing as long tube headers right
Looking into shortys vs current long tube Hookers for my '66 Stang. The car has the shorter 1" drop coils and the problem is the collectors scrape the wider speed bumps and they're kinda close to the fuel and brake lines. Any suggestion on brands?
A shorty header should free up some ground clearance.
www.summitracing.com/search/part-type/headers/year/1966/make/ford/model/mustang/header-style/shorty?N=header-style%3Ashorty
Yes those bumps fuckin me up too
So the Shorty headers and the Stock Ones Would perform the same basically Or ? Can You tell me your Opinion O ther is not need to Do the Improvement
Which is better for a 2015 Chevrolet Camaro zl1 long tube headers or shorty headers
Running a Blown and Sprayed 383. My present headers are full length with 2" primaries and a 3-1/2 collector. It's all stuffed into a Vega. With all that's said about short headers can I find a pair that will work for my application. Trying to gain ground clearance and engine bay clearance. Thanks.
they make mid length header now so you can get something that still give you good mid power and ground clearance
Sounds like a sweet ride. 👍🏻
I got a 18 Chevy impala and i put a 87 vortec 350 in it what kind of headers do u think i should go with i like the long tubs
If I have a carburator would I need to tune it to run long tube headers
Do you have a set of long headers for a 2000 chevy express 1500 4.3 V6?
So I have a 95 Chevy 5.7 v8 tbi. I feel like shorty headers would be better for a daily driver. I don’t drive it everyday but I drive or weekly. Would it be more efficient to use shortys?
Ok so I want to long tubes for my 08 Silverado but will I have to remove a lot of stuff if anything? If so what? I have a flow master aftermarket exhaust that starts at the cat back will it fit to this?
I have 57 Ranchero w/390FE. The stock header just barely clear the steering gear box. I want long tube do I have to go custom or is there a long tube that will clear my steering box
Hi Glenn, we do not see anything for that application.
Hi there, I need to place an o2 sensor for my efi. If I use short headers will I neet to position the sensor fuher down the merge of the tubes compared to stock or long headers? Thanks
I have a 2010 ford f150 5.4 with a flowmaster catback dual exhaust and a K&N 57 series cold air intake. I'm curious if I could do long tube headers with this configuration or should I stick to shorty headers? I'm also going to do a tune with this header install.
Hello! My name is Nicholas and I currently own a 2011 Ram 1500 Big horn. I have the hemi tick with either the lifter issue or broken exhaust bolts. I am currently looking into replacing the manifold with long tube headers. Do you have any advice as to how to prevent the bolts from breaking or any recommendations? Do you have any recommendations on any long tube headers?
1991 k2500 5.7L automatic 4/4
Long tube
What’s the best?
Has new 2.5 true dual
Flowmater 50 delta mufflers
Is there sa stainless option?
At wart rpm do long tube headers urrpass shores on sat a 20/1 charger 5.7?
Which exhaust headers would I use for 1970 ford thunderbird with big block 429 7.0?
I'm looking for a set of long tube headers I can force be with the z bar can you give me the part number or do you even make them appreciate it thank you
My biggest concern is fitment on a 289 66 mustang coupe. I would go with the shortys if need be, but would prefer long tube. I have an AOD tranny in there, that creates a bit of a problem. What would you guys suggest?
Would shorty headers be ok to run on my daily driver bone stock 02 Suburban? I live in town so there is hardly ever any full throttle driving.
I'm looking for a shorty header for my 1987 Chevy 1/2 ton 4 wheel drive with TBI. I have a cracked head so I've decided to go with new DART 127221 72cc chamber heads upping compression just a bit. Basically wanting a 350hp/and lots of torque, very streetable with pump gas. In fact this will be a farm truck/trailer hauler near term and project truck long term. Also getting rid of the TBI and all of the emissions and crappy exhaust manifolds. The body of this truck is in near perfect condition short of needing new paint.(and everyone who sees it tries to buy it) Hence the reason spending some money on the engine.
Those heads are standard port in stock the location. I recommend 1 5/8” primary tubes headers. www.summitracing.com/parts/snh-cc3158-p/make/chevrolet/year/1987 or www.summitracing.com/parts/snh-cc3158-sec/make/chevrolet/year/1987
so if i change my manifold and ported throttle and it gives me mid range and top end gains do you go with short headers for the idle to mid range power up front or long and basically just gain everything from mid to top end ?
In the event my front driveshaft is a clearance issue how can I resolve that
Will long tube headers void a crate motor warranty?
Exelente Video ... Me encantan estos heders , vivo en Venezuela como hago para comprar productos de Ustedes ??
I have a 2014 mustang v6. If I want to make more power what the best long header or short?
I can only run shorty headers. Are they worth the cost over factory manifolds?
Brian Zimmer I have shortys on my 91 c1500 didn’t make any difference in power maybe 3 or 4 hp but it does have a deeper exhaust note
@@nickwebb9937 thank you......sounds like I should save my money or move to Texas lol
Can i connect shortie headers to stock exhaust? And is there a difference in sound between stock manifold and these 2 types?
Do they make short tube headers for a 1967 Pontiac Firebird D port
I own a 2008 Chevy Silverado Max Vortec. It is currently tuned and has K/N cold air intake with a Magnaflow Muffler. Should i go for long tube or shorty headers? Oh also it is one of those dropped down trucks.
Ive got a 99 suburban with a 350. Its 2wd. Would like to use shortys. Then using 2.5 from the headers into an x pipe. With 2.5 tailpipes.
Here is a link to the headers we offer for your application: 1999 Chevy Suburban Shorty Headers.
www.summitracing.com/search/part-type/headers/year/1999/make/chevrolet/model/c1500-suburban/engine-size/5-7l-350/engine-family/chevy-small-block-gen-i?N=header-style%3Ashorty&SortBy=Default&SortOrder=Ascending&keyword=headers&kr=headers
Have an 06 charger Daytona Rt, cant decide which would be better LT or ST?
What do you guys recommend for a 1996 Chevy Silverado c1500 5.0 I don’t really know what camshaft to buy and if I should buy long tubes or shorties ? Let me know