This is awesome. I feel like once i started to trust to companies more with their parameters on tooling, its greatly improved my cycle times and ability to remove more material in a shorter time. Its awesome there are companies providing products directed towards the average machine shops.
Why not just use heat shrink holders? You can use any brand or style carbide cutters. They run true, no flats needed. With those, you are committed to using their brand & style of cutters, no matter what their pricing & availability is. If I break a tool, I need one today, not in 2 days. Heat shrink or hydraulic chucks are way to go. Never had a heat shrink have more than .0008 TIR run-out. Usually .0005 or less.(inch).
They are very expensive and require equipment to heat them up and cool them down like the Haimer system. The goal of a small job shop is to make money and buying all shrink fit and hydraulic holders is very cost prohibitive.
@Jon Dillehay You have to look at the big picture. There are less expensive heat units than a Haimer brand. We use one that uses air blast to cool rather than cooling unit. A few holders & a heat shrink unit would be a start. Having a brand specific tooling system can get very expensive over time. Who knows what their prices will do after they have you set up with their cutters. Shrink fit, you can use any brand/style cutters you like. Whoever has a sale, buy cutters. Don't have to custom order tools with a specific out of holder to reach. Simplifies cutter stock, saving $ in the long run.
@@johnhines3591 I buy the weldon set screw style holders and call it a day, even at the job shops ive worked, thats all they used and can hold .0005” - .0002” tolerances all day on a mill. The shrink fit are nice because they improve run out, rigidity and tool life but it is just hard to justify the cost in a cut throat business environment. It could be the difference between just keeping the lights on one month and actually making a profit. Are the benefits of the shrink fit holders realistically going to make you more money than you would save buy just not buying them? That’s up to the individual.
@Jon Dillehay My point was if investing in a complete tooling system, like video was about, why go brand specific on cutters. Yes, I use mostly side lock holders. When you go to high speed machining, side locks aren't the best. Above 6,000 rpm, tools should be balanced. Wes have some machines that have 25,000 rpm spindles. 4 that have 35,000 rpm spindles. Yes, even small job shops can benefit from shrink fit, I understand the small shops. Worked for one, 7 employees. Was there for 10 years.
Are they planning larger diameter and longer doc tooling? I support a structural steel fabricator running a cat 50 vmc and 3/4 x 2 is the bottom end of tooling around here.
I agree with Ian. That doesn't sound too over the top. I run a HAAS VF3ss and those parameters wouldn't be too intimidating. I'd trust the green zone on this, it makes sense to me.
Sounds like a paid advertisement commercial. I rather invest my money on quality shrinkfit or hydraulic. That msc tool holder will probably cost as much
This is awesome. I feel like once i started to trust to companies more with their parameters on tooling, its greatly improved my cycle times and ability to remove more material in a shorter time. Its awesome there are companies providing products directed towards the average machine shops.
Thanks for sharing all the knowledge. It seems like the few people that know or learn about these things don't want to share the info anymore.
Our pleasure, thank you very much for checking it out!
Great video again Ian
I use Schunk hydraulic holders and big plus holders. And it makes a BIIiiiiiiG difference in tool life. 100+% in tool life in harder materials.
Why not just use heat shrink holders?
You can use any brand or style carbide cutters.
They run true, no flats needed.
With those, you are committed to using their brand & style of cutters, no matter what their pricing & availability is.
If I break a tool, I need one today, not in 2 days.
Heat shrink or hydraulic chucks are way to go.
Never had a heat shrink have more than
.0008 TIR run-out. Usually
.0005 or less.(inch).
They are very expensive and require equipment to heat them up and cool them down like the Haimer system. The goal of a small job shop is to make money and buying all shrink fit and hydraulic holders is very cost prohibitive.
@Jon Dillehay
You have to look at the big picture.
There are less expensive heat units than a Haimer brand.
We use one that uses air blast to cool rather than cooling unit.
A few holders & a heat shrink unit would be a start.
Having a brand specific tooling system can get very expensive over time. Who knows what their prices will do after they have you set up with their cutters.
Shrink fit, you can use any brand/style cutters you like. Whoever has a sale, buy cutters.
Don't have to custom order tools with a specific out of holder to reach.
Simplifies cutter stock, saving $ in the long run.
@@johnhines3591 I buy the weldon set screw style holders and call it a day, even at the job shops ive worked, thats all they used and can hold .0005” - .0002” tolerances all day on a mill. The shrink fit are nice because they improve run out, rigidity and tool life but it is just hard to justify the cost in a cut throat business environment. It could be the difference between just keeping the lights on one month and actually making a profit. Are the benefits of the shrink fit holders realistically going to make you more money than you would save buy just not buying them? That’s up to the individual.
@Jon Dillehay
My point was if investing in a complete tooling system, like video was about, why go brand specific on cutters.
Yes, I use mostly side lock holders. When you go to high speed machining, side locks aren't the best.
Above 6,000 rpm, tools should be balanced. Wes have some machines that have 25,000 rpm spindles. 4 that have 35,000 rpm spindles.
Yes, even small job shops can benefit from shrink fit, I understand the small shops. Worked for one, 7 employees.
Was there for 10 years.
what do you use for your shrink fit system, we have 5 axis machine at my work but somehow don't have heat shrink tooling.....
great content keep it up
Thank you very much!
Are they planning larger diameter and longer doc tooling? I support a structural steel fabricator running a cat 50 vmc and 3/4 x 2 is the bottom end of tooling around here.
Reading the comments here, it's looking like the 6000rpm top end may not gain much advantage from a highly balanced tool system.
@@Ddabig40mac RPM probably needs to stay near the same for predicted harmonics.
Ian!
That's my boy Ian!!
G’day lads, thanks for stopping by!
I would love to see 5.5K and 223 IPM with Ae of .025 and .5 Ap. Lets see that video and tool life. I will switch from Kennametal if it works.
That doesn’t actually sound too too ridiculous - what diameter cutter? 3/4” or 1/2”?
Your probably right, the more I think about it. I usually use 10 to 15 percent of diameter for step over.@@iansandusky417
I agree with Ian. That doesn't sound too over the top. I run a HAAS VF3ss and those parameters wouldn't be too intimidating. I'd trust the green zone on this, it makes sense to me.
If you have a bad machine like Hass you will have lots of charter 😅
Use a Hydraulic holder no flat and vibration dampening. Schunk
? really! The chatter you're getting is negative talk. Or negative thoughts!
Haas= chatter there’s a simple solution to a simple problem get a half decent machine
Dude we’ve been running Haas here since 1994 and have managed to make good parts without chatter, so I think we’re probably alright
@@iansandusky417 you’ve come along way in nearly 30 year..you must be doing something right…👌
Sounds like a paid advertisement commercial. I rather invest my money on quality shrinkfit or hydraulic. That msc tool holder will probably cost as much
good content but FFS put your hat on the right way your not 10 years old