Is Automated MASTERING Worth It? Landr vs Bandlab vs Ozone vs Me
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- Опубліковано 31 тра 2024
- 🔊#mastering, #landr #izotope
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Is AUTOMATED MASTERING Worth It? LANDR vs BANDLAB vs OZONE vs ME
Online and automated mastering services have exploded in popularity recently. Between the affordable costs and quick turnaround, many musicians are opting to use services like LANDR and Bandlab.
But can they really provide you with a top-quality master of your track?
Let's find out!
In this video, I’ll give you an overview of LANDR, Bandlab, and Ozone, and I’ll compare them with a track mastered by a real, analog person.
I’ll also give you my opinion on when automated mastering might be right, as well as the pros and cons of all the different options.
Have you used one of these services? Let me know your thoughts in the comments!
Timestamps
00:00 Intro
1:10 Bandlab overview
3:35 LANDR overview
6:30 Getting a revision from LANDR
7:05 Ozone overview
8:09 Comparing all mastered versions
13:17 Advantages of online services
14:40 Advantages of working with a mastering engineer
17:22 Mastering yourself
18:53 Final thoughts on automated mastering
Music in thbis video by the JOSH GILBERT BAND
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Your master was definitely the best out of them, but LANDR came really close to sounding about right. Definitely a great service for independent artists on a low budget.
In my own experience, with my first manual mastering after using auto-mastering for years. I find that manual mastering will give the best result, it's may not be perfect but it is satisfying. Auto-mastering is balance but somehow it feels much more quiet and less lively than do it by yourself. I have avoided learning mastering for years until I recently realized mastering is quite easier than mixing, I suggest anyone who been using auto-mastering or not do it by themselves try manual mastering for once, it is not hard to learn and it will give you the best result and most important of all, remove your self-doubt!
I recently mastered a track again in a year or two. What a difference? I don't know if I'm a smarter mastered or a smarter mixer. Probably a little of both.
How did you learn mastering? Did you take a course? If so can u tell me please?
I use Landr and I absolutely love it
Thanks for working on our song, Chris, and for making it great!!!
Thanks bro! It's always a blessing to work with you Josh!
Great song guys. Love the vocals.
@@jasonalexander5253 thanks man!!
Great video! 👍
This is one of the best videos out there demystifying the mastering process. You really show what you want from a mastered track! 👍
Glad it was helpful! Thanks!
Great to find a video talking about mastering a genre besides electronic!
Another great Video. Thanks, Chris
I am of the same opinion. You say correctly Ozone and etc. is like start point. Your original Master is the best result. Very god job.
A great video about the subject. I find your master airier and fresher. On my part when I master, I use Ozone and Wavelab to master with some plugins like Tonal balance and Insight from iZotope and Levels and Expose from Mastering the Mix. Many times I use during the mix and master with a reference track.
Great tutorial man, I'm signing up for everything now
thank you so much for doing this. So valuable.
Glad it was helpful!
Excellent! Merci Chris! 😀
Great Video Chris! I use Ozone bandle on my mix, just to get on idea on the eq and comp. I use Nectar to calibrate bass, drum, vocals and synths. After use Ozone to take an idea but the final mastering is always made by me on Wavelab. I'm also a Cubase user for more than 3 years but to be honest the last version 12 on Windows 10 is not stable... I returned to 11 until 12 will not be fixed. BTW, never used LANDR, maybe I'll try it. Thank you
Your master was definitely the best Chris. It had an open top end with nice stereo width. Could you do a video on how you mastered this? Great song as well. 10 outa 10.
Thanks, Glad you like my master the best :-)
I actually made a full in-depth video on my Mastering Process of this song in the Mixdown Coaching Community www.mixdownacademy.com/mcc. Doors to registration are closed at the moment, but I encourage you to get on the waiting list. I will open the doors soon enough :)
Thanks For Tutorial
Thanks Chris - I never knew automated mastering existed! Great educational video as always.
Glad you enjoyed it, Ken!
All were decent, but Chris' was the best. We have used Ozone for clients who don't want the added expense - and it's quite good. Honestly, I always send my own songs to a mastering engineer, for exactly the reason Chris indicated - he finds the problems with the mix so we can correct it.
Ozone 9 can be very musical, and you can manually add various "effects" and even tweak EQ. I find it very useful for a fast master.
Your version is the best
Great video! I'm lucky enough to be working with Sergio who does all our mastering. I do however attempt to do my own mastering on mixes I do for learning purposes. What I have learned is that not songs need to be slammed. Depending on genre or if the artist was going for an classic sound of an era.
Having your mastering "go to" guy in your band is quite useful for sure ;-)
For me, I do prefer not to slam mixes in mastering, but I don't mind a loud master if it sounds good, and if it goes well with the production. Funny enough, a lot of record labels still prefer loud masters.
With extensive research through all of the automated mastering, bandlab to my ears was the best and it's free
i use ozon. it works good enough, it give you head start, you play around a bit and that's it.
Great song and production. Your master was the best.
Awesome, thanks!
I must confess that I have been using Soundcloud's automated mastering service. Firstly, because I can't afford the services of a human mastering engineer but mostly because my mastering skills are pretty poor no matter how hard I try and Soundcloud does a far better job than I do. If I could afford a human service, I definitely would.
Glad to know you work with Soundcloud Mastering, I never tried this one, but heard about it!
Cool vids.
I own ozone.
I usually use ozone just to get the idea of the eq move compared to my mix. It works for the first year, like cleaning up the muddiness and add clarity.
But after that i use ozone again i feel like my ear has been trained to ozone eq move and now i use the ozone assistant the eq move almost the same from my mix.
Definitely A great tool for learning the idea what mastering is or fast loudness goal. Imo
Thanks for your comment :-)
Hi Chris. I have a fellow mixer master for me as I appreciate the 'fresh ears'. It also means we get into quite a dialogue at times. While he's no pro by his own admission, we both mutually learn and grow with each mix - master journey. It's certainly trained my ear to be more critical. We're both Cubase users so any chance of a screen shot of the plugins on the Master Out? The Cubase stock stuff is ok but I'm guessing 3rd party plugins for your master EQ; Comp; Excitement (Oxford Inflator???) and Limiter / Maximiser?
hi chris...Double clicking intermittently works within Cubase 11 on PC windows 10. If you want to edit a MIDI part and open up the Key Editor or Rename a Track those are all things that do not work when i double click...I must insist on double click like 10 times and gave up and press the enter key. is there a solution? I tried with 3 diferent mouses wired and Wireless and all the same...Makes me lose a lot of time. do you know something about it?...thanks a lot.
Hi Chris can you please explain input transformer in C12 and how to configure a multi output midi plugin like InstaComposer, Thanks.
With ozone assistant your suppose to play busiest part of track for it to scan it seemed like you played a quiet verse part when you played the audio for it to analyze, you will probly get better results if you play like the chorus when it analyzes, i use it alot and it actually says in directions to play the busiest section of song, awsome vid tho, just noticed that wanted to let u know
It was clear to me that your master went through high quality analog gear. It was more alive, more open and it really breathes. I use Ozone often for mastering but I'm still in the sad starving artist realm. When I get better financially set, I'll never use anything other than a human mastering engineer. Would love to hear how you would master one of my songs! One day ~ one day...
Glad you liked my mastered version. Just so you know, my master was done 100% ITB with the use of plugins only, no analog gear on this one :-)
@@mixdownonline Daaaaayum!!!!
@@JayYarbroughMusic Chris Selim is a skilled engineer. Also if you don't know yet, Dua Lipa - Levitating is mastered 100% ITB by Chris Gehringer.
There are a lot of mastering engineers out there, and the majority will master an album differently from each other. I feel there are a lot of mastering engineers out there who are over priced, and I don't believe necessarily good either. I would trust Ozone, bandlab, Landr before I would trust some of these mastering engineers.
Hi Chris, Your master sounded best to me. Landr was 2nd best to me... great video!
Cool, thanks :-)
I myself work with Ozone Suite - I recommend it even if the price is quite high ... but it works really great!
... anyway, the price I pay for a software solution is only to be paid once, a mastering engineer I have to pay for each project. And I really appreciate the knowledge and the equipment you need to be an expert in this. So - it's just a point of view, I think!
Thanks for sharing your point of view, there's no right or wrong answers, only what works for you best.
I enjoyed the sparkle on your master. Cymbals, snare snap & hi end transparency were cleaner. Your bass guitar seemed noticeably more present. (Was it mixed by a drummer?) lol It felt more human than the AI (Ozone was the best of those). Thanks Chris.
Much appreciated, John!
How do I get to loops and samples in cubase as I dont seem to have any showing in Cubase?
you always great God bless you
I see that you'd posted this a year ago...very interesting comparison test. Personally, I preferred your version. Listening on UA-cam can compromise critical listening, but the differences in the tracks can be heard...sometimes. But the main reason I'm here is because another podcaster was talking about AI, there are different levels of AI and Machine Learning is one of these levels. He mentioned that these algorithms, that use machine learning (like LANDR), actually get better as they get more masters to work on. I feel that this is true for LANDR, as I recall listening to it's results several years ago and it wasn't that exciting. Fast forward to the present and it's been learning from thousands of files and it basically has more experience with more information with which to make judgments. I'm not a programmer but this sounds feasible. In theory, a lot of these Machine Learning apps can actually get better with age. So keep your ear on LANDR. A good test would be to give it the same track that you gave it last year and see if it's learned anything.
I fell in love with recording, mixing, mastering, ... when I was 14 years old. I love everything about the art. But the past couple of years, I'm finding it harder and harder to justify the much higher costs of going to recording studios, and paying mastering engineers when these cheap alternatives are becoming abundant and available to everyone. Recording studio vs. renting (or even buying) an 8 input interface and hooking it up to a free DAW? I don't know anymore... If it's the experience for the band we're after: studio. If it's pleasing the 99% of all the listeners that can't tell the difference between recorded in a big studio or at home: free DAW. Even worse with mastering... A good mastering engineer costs 10-100 times more than those AI-tools, but the general public can't tell the difference (they wouldn't be presented with a comparison, so who would know anyway?).
My musical heart is breaking, truly, because I see true craftsmanship disappearing and being replaced with AI and cheap (but nonetheless good) tech...
Everything from art to writing will be replaced by AI. Prepare.
@@Kathayne636 And no one will want to read, listen or look at that shit. it will be jibberish, or rehash crap. lol.
Beautiful comparison….
In my own point of view, hearing all the difference comparisons, there’s no really big difference should it be listened by ordinary song lovers, even the bandlab sounded good.
I really loved Your Master, and that of Landr.
That’s beacause of one big reason. THE MIXED ALREADY SOUNDED REALLY GOOD. 👌🏽
I start with Ozone Advanced. Then send that with the original to a mastering engineer for either tweaking suggestions. Or to go ahead and have him master the song. Since I work in film scores mostly, I tend to master those myself with Lufs standards.
That
@@mixdownonline U bet. Really like your channel. You make me think ;-O
Please... How do I get my vocals to sound like your VOICE in this video? [ I mean your REAL VOICE CHRIS ] Sounds GREAT
great job getting your mix mastered with punch in the lows and mids but clarity up on top and the vocals are present - great video! I agree with everything you said - also ‘he or she’ 👍
Thanks a lotl, Maria! Glad you liked my mastered version :-)
For both my EPs released in 2021 and 2022 I had Ian Sheppard master my songs. But also in 2021 I released a single apart from the EP concept mastered by LANDR with a really good result. I don’t have the know how, nor do I have the needed distance for mastering my own songs. I gladly give them away. For a more important release like an EP or CD or any kind of an album I’d always choose a mastering engineer. But for a single release every once in a while those AI mastering services do the thing pretty well imho. I’m still glad, though, Ian didn’t need any changes to be done to my mixes. So I presume they were quite all right😀. But I had good training on Cubase with you, Chris👍 and of course Graham Cochran ˋ s Mixing University.
That's pretty cool! Ian is a good friend, I also used his mastering service and I was very satisfied. Thanks for sharing!
@@mixdownonline Cool. If you talk to him next time say hello from me👍😀
Hi Chris , I make predominantly reggae and I have ozone 9 and I sometimes use LANDR . It never seems to be as I hope even with references. A real life mastering engineer is better in my humblest opinion .I don’t know if the algorithms are designed for other genres but I hope it gets better in time. LANDR does a great job but it some how alters the tone .
Cheers
Thanks for your comment :-)
Hi Chris, You are Mastering on Cubase Pro or using another software platform such Wavelab, Nuendo or something?
About auto mastering services, for me, depends on the genre, my mix etc, which "machine" I'm going to use. Mostly I'm looking between the "mastering studio" (sounds different than the rests, something new), "Cloubounce" and "SoundCloud". The "Landr" also sounds good but they gives you only few seconds to listening and that not work for me. Brainworx's mastering suite looks promising but for now its only for Mac.
Of course a mastering engineer is always the best solution but also expensive (100-200 euro per song)...
However the first step is to understanding well the stereo bus. Cubase's Pro stereo bus gives a lot informations. I know you have already a video about it. I think something more analytic would be helpful.
Always waiting your next videos 🙂
When you get a chance, try Aria. If I had to use any of these, I find Aria the best.
Never heard of it, thanks for letting me know!
I would have loved to see what plugins and settings you used to create your own master.
I actually made a full in-depth video on my Mastering Process of this song in the Mixdown Coaching Community www.mixdownacademy.com/mcc. Doors to registration are closed at the moment, but I encourage you to get on the waiting list. I will open the doors soon enough :)
gr8 vid!
Thanks!
After going from producer to both artist and producer time wise ozone for the win but when I do remixes I master it myself
Nice! Same here, the more I go, the more I master myself
any coupons for your mixing masterclass? I am really wanting to check it out, but have been spending a pile of money on cubase, komplete already. Would love to learn this well. If not, no big deal. I'll save up for it.
Get my free Mix Template Workshop and an offer for my Mixing Course will be offered mixdown.online/free :-)
Yours was much better. Every time you clicked on your master it was magic. It opened up and so much easier on the ears EQ wise. But for the price for some projects that don't really justify a high end master. LANDR was good when you lowered the level. Nice job.
What do you think of ozone presets? Somehow, I always end up peaking a bit, even while mixing even if I record it at -18. (Can I go below -20 while.recording, especially guitars if the loudness feels ok?) I'm not a pro, but an advice would be highly appreciated.
When you mix, try to keep an eye on your channel levels as you mix. If a plugin makes your channel louder, bring down the output level of that plugin to keep your gain structure stable. In the end, even if your channels ends up louder and that your Master Channel is too loud, you can just bring the Master Channel down as far as your other channels are not peaking. Hope that helps
@@mixdownonline Thanks for the advice! And by the way, you're the best on whole UA-cam, honestly!
I do have a few problems with automated mastering. It may work fine for standard arranged and mixed songs. I don't think it works that great for classical, jazz world music etc. and mix problems. I once tried landr with a mix that had an obviously overrepresented frequency; landr couldn't fix it. With a simple eq curve it was fixed. I've mastered a couple of albums that were mixed in a room with slightly weird frequency response obviously; most of the time I could fix it in mastering. i think, landr etc. is not "smart" enough yet. There are cheap but decent human mastering services online. If you're not releasing 10 songs a month, you should be able to afford human mastering; doesn't have to be Sterling Sound or so.
is this good for mastering beats?
I’m thinking of getting Ozone as I’m facing a fresh year payment to LANDR of over £300 although I think there is a sale on at the moment. This video was really more of a comparison between your master and online mastering - ozone got the least attention which is a shame as it’s your opinion of it that I was interested in.
New subscriber here. Have you ever tried Cloudbounce? Cause I would love to hear your opinion on that.
How about Soundcloud's mastering?
Mastering Engineer is the right choice all the time, although and admit Ozone is a good solution in some unpaid projects !!
Yes, Ozone is a good solution
Seriously I don't master my mixes at all since I am no Mastering Engineer, so for customer preview I use Ozone but for the final product I hire someone to do the job for me
And I would suggest to anyone who hasn't spent as much time mastering as mixing should let their songs be mastered by someone else just because mastering itself is that important and needs to be done right
Not sure why you left the volumes so different on all the examples. Makes impossible/misleading to compare them. That said, as far as available options, thanks much, great video.
That's because I was comparing everything, including loudness. Glad you liked the video, Marc, Thanks!
From all the comparos I've heard from different people doing this LANDR and ARIA sounded the best. Still, if you want something above this get yourself a good ME with great gear, room and ears.
I use Ozone.
Tu es du Québec ?:)
Chris, Your master sounds better simply because it has 3db more than the others. Put them at the same level and you will have a hard time...
Don't you use Wavelab ?
My Top is :1 YOU ,2 OZONE 3 BANDLAB 4 LANDR
Can we download your master?
There's a link to the Artist's UA-cam channel and Spotify, the song is available there :-)
Or, if you've got a good room and good monitors should you master using the experience and skill you've acquired over the years? 😎
Of course 😎
There are a lot of mastering engineers out there, and the majority will master an album differently from each other. I feel there are a lot of mastering engineers out there who are over priced, and I don't believe necessarily good either. I would trust Ozone, bandlab, Landr before I would trust some of these mastering engineers.
Yes, some are overpriced, some are cheap, but the trick is to find a mastering engineer, you like his/her work, and trust. That can be yourself or even a AI service. The best mastering engineer, I worked with was the most expensive I paid for. He wasn't the best because of his pricing, he was still affordable, but because he had good enough mastering experience to be Ted Jenson's assistant, and I could tell with the work he did on 3 albums I produced for a client.
So... if we are comparing online mastering vs. a human engineer, what should I expect to pay for an actual engineer?
That depends, a good mastering engineer can charge from $60 to $150 a song and even more for a "superstar" Mastering engineer
@@mixdownonline That seems very reasonable, actually. Extending this a bit, how about mixing?
@@mixdownonline why would I pay that tho when Landr is like $20 a month or whatever
@@blanepope8973 You wouldn't. Most people wouldn't, lol. Unless you're going to make it back from sales.
If you push songs out for youtube and other social plattforms, go with AI. The speed is unmatched.
Too bad you didn't make the volume for each master the same.
I found that the lead vocal in all of them, Master Included, needs some work. The lead Vocal was too prominrnt in the mix imho. I could hear the voice cracking and straying out of tune slightly. I would let MElodyne have a go at it.Othre than that, I thought your mix overall was superior, altho they all had some value.
In a country song, a super forward loud vocal is mandatory.
Glad you though my master was good :-)
@@BukanIbuMu I agree. It should stand out. I just think it should be processed a bit more to fit the mix. Good tune, tho. Well performed
By the way ! A mastering engineer should not be called unless he(she) understand the style ,substyle ... Well seems that they should listen more songs and have broad listening experience on style ! For instance i do not want to work with such called dj "on in one "/sound engineers /dj lol that did not know anything about music ,notation even with poor music background and call themselves master engineers ! Mastering job is nice but required also very much learning and some gear as well that could bring some qualitied to the pre mix sessions! First i graduated like mix engineer LOL and the went to rec and then to mastering over +20 years ! But many of us have over 3000 cd on theirs collections for reference right !i am right Chris ? In my opinion old time like steps time from student to master engineer where even better then now when the schools offer direct mastering classes !Lol But how in the world can teach someone about mastering without knowing recording or even music...!??a//sdsd To me is a mistery honest !
Good info. Because 99% of us spend way more $$ on producing music than we will ever recoup, that often times puts a mastering engineer (that is any good) out of reach.
I will usually provide a mastered version of whatever I mix with the suggestion that they at least compare it to landr or have somebody else master it.
Most of the time I think they use my master from a very flawed room, usually created minutes after the mix is done and was really meant for them to compare when listening to a reference.
I really miss the old days of carrying 14" reels to a mastering house and sitting down with the mastering engineer and getting to see what he/she had to do to fix the flaws in your mix.
carrying 14" reels to a mastering studio, that I never experimented! Thanks for your comment, Ross :-)
@@mixdownonline I'm old, what can I say. I was just trying to explain to my daughter how we edited songs with a razor blade and tape and that our crossfade was the angle you sliced the tape. She just couldn't even get the concept having never recorded anything to tape, not even a cassette.
Wow couldn't imagine having to make a song like that. Sounds awful and tedious
@@blanepope8973 Ahh, but you'll never know the glorious feel and sound of rocking a tape machine to find that snare hit, marking with a grease pencil, slicing the tape and spooling off 20 feet of tape onto the floor then gluing it back together just to get rid of those 2 bars you didn't need.
dumb question, of course your music is gonna be mixed better by hand.
mastering online not sounds good
really pushing that LANDR......hmmmm
I actually pushed my work better, but when a service and a product does nice work, I talk about it. A lot of home musicians rely on Online Mastering Services so I want to make that even if I prefer a real Mastering person, Landr is probably the nest out there for this type of service.
clearly, your mix was the best. Landr second.
Thanks, Billy!
BAND LAB DONT HAVE A LIMMITER.....
I'm going to master my songs myself because I don't want to make any money from it and want to achieve a different kind of success with it.
i don't your idea !you must be compared in the same level (LUFS)! because a human being think a louder music is the better.
I brought the Ozone and Bandlab versions louder at some point to compare with my master. But again, that is a real life comparison including loudness limitations, we get with automated mastering. Yes the human brain thinks louder is better but once you know that, you can trick your brain otherwise to focus on the compression pumping I got from some automated masters ;-)
Your master sounded dull in the vocals. Landr sounded the best and the vocals were emotionally enganging.
Surprise, surprise. He doesn't like the free mastering.
REMEMBER: if the mix is right - you hardly need to master!
HINT: mastering is not a restoration of bad mixes!
TIPP: it´s often much better to give mastering to experienced people or online services.
mono'ing this track is pretty depressing
Je préfère l'intelligence non artificielle...
Lol :-)