GAIN STAGING when RECORDING? Get the Perfect RECORDING LEVELS
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- Опубліковано 16 тра 2024
- #recording #homerecording #skillshare
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GAIN STAGING when RECORDING? Get the Perfect RECORDING LEVELS
We talk a lot about the importance of gain staging your mix to get a great sound, but to get the best results, you have to start even earlier…
I’m talking about gain staging at the recording phase!
When you mix tracks that have been recorded well, a significant part of the work has been done for you. When tracks are recorded too loud or too quiet, you can run into a whole host of mixing problems that make your job unnecessarily harder.
In today’s video, I’ll show you some tips and tricks (and even plugins) to help get recordings right at the source.
Timestamps
00:00 Intro
1:01 Why gain staging is important for good recordings
2:09 Average vs Peak levels
3:11 How to set gain levels in Cubase
5:24 Helpful plugins for gain staging
6:30 Using a VU Meter to track average levels
7:38 Using SuperVision in Cubase 11 to monitor levels
10:18 Optimal recording levels
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I love this guy. Get's to the business quickly and doesn't send a mixed message. All things Cubase, he has under control as well as sharing insight into the fundamentals for people like me. Thank you Chris for all that you do, and, keep it going brother. We need you. Thank you.
Thanks for the kind words David! You're more than welcome!
It was veery worth watching this again Chris, I will watch it again, need to take some notes. Thanks
Thanks a lot Chris! I have now added “supervision’ plugin on every channel in my/your! template as the last slot in post fader plugin section. I suppose I should have it also as the first plugin in my pre=fader section for the input ‘pre’ signal 🤔 Of course I use Alt+left mouse click on the power button on the plugin to switch it fully off until I use it , to save CPU loading 😉
great job Chris! very comprehensive and hands on stuff)
Awesome, thank you!
Loads of Knowledge .. again from u thanks sir...
Always welcome
The IK/T-racks meter module is also very cool. I never thought of using it on an input channel....nice!
Thanks for the quick and very useful tips! I use a Yamaha MG10 XU as my recording interface, which has a meter on board. The problem I'm facing is that if I ensure 0db or below the interface, the track ends up too quite on cubase (avg below 23db peak). What am I doing wrong?
Hey Chris, thanks for the video. Do you use anything like a compressor/limiter during recording/tracking in order to control the peaks?
I just watched this video, but being 2yo now, Chris is no doubt busy working on his new stuff. Content creator gotta keep feeding the YT monster… Anyway, I was thinking the same. I know it is sometimes appropriate to tame a peaky/highly dynamic input with a compressor, in order to give the average level a leg up, so I do it sometimes. On that note, a limiter might also be useful as a safeguard, considering a peaked signal is only good for the rubbish bin. In an ideal world you should never trigger the limiter, but if you do just hit it once or twice during the best take of the day, say the singer just got really into it at the same time as moving a fraction too close to the mic, it might still be ok. Without a limiter, it will be ruined. With a limiter, it might not. You get what I mean.
It looks so inspiring!
It's 2021 at this point we should have some type of ai vst that can pin point the average to getting the DB we want! Thanks for the this amazing video aswell brother!
Thank You Chris 🍻
Any time!
I'm ol skool. I have a bunch of really nice compressors that I use to watch the signal that hit the ADC. I say really nice compressors because I don't want to hear them knocking down the spikes.It's also less of a balancing act managing the dynamics going in.
Hey Chris, should I put both VUMT and Supervision on input channel or do I only need Supervision since I'm using C11 Pro?
It's up to you, Supervision works well.
I am wondering which audio interface your using. Thanks for a great video.
This one: ua-cam.com/video/1qCbOJQIfTg/v-deo.html
It Is importante to considero the Dynamic range available by the dac section, not all the dacs have -18 or -20 dBu, often a bit more, let'say for example - 14 dBu, so to use well all the recording headroom we have to match - 14 dBFs for RMS when recording...
Hi chris! We often see that hardware emulations plugins work "better" at -18dB level input. Manufacturers refers to -18 peak or rms?
They do refer to Average Levels like VU metering so yes, RMS.
So with vocals would u want to set VU 0 to -6db to monitor peak? And use another rms meter to make sure your coming in between -18 and -10 rms?
we can already rec up to 48 bit depth if we want! because you mention 24 is great also !
Nice video, Chris! Supervision...who knew!
It's a great plugin!
Great vid!
Yeah, Cubase not having RMS levels on the channel is a PITA.
Very good video thnx
RMS is more like for consistencies "roots means square" because booth phase compile and picks means "reaching top mountains" also showing little top spikes ! Well maybe for gtr or drums ! big transients included!
Chris, I am upgrading from CB 6.5P to 11P, will my user made amp racks ( which I load to track from "Load Mixer Settings" after right click on Ch Strip ) be migrated to CB 11 automatically ?
Not sure about that one since they made huge upgrades from C7 and up
Hi Chris, Greg Ondo with Cubase said 6.5 will stay intact and still be a separate program.
Also,If a track part, for instance a guitar solo recorded mid-song, and is there in the middle and it is batch exported with other tracks in the project which are 'connected' to the start of the song, then, when imported to say, another DAW, it does not line up in the proper 'solo' location on the grid. Should I pull the track and stretch it to the beginning to avoid this , or other method.
Thanks for response,
Don Miller
CB 6.5 soon to be CB11
Merci
what is the free vmeter alternative ? thx
Does skill share certify if we pay them yearly?
Do ⑂ou think we need to gain stage to -18db for better mix with analog emulation plugins or having some head room is just fine?
Yes, but like I explained in this video, the -18 dbfs when Gain Staging is always the average level and not the Peak level.
Chris is this a good idea to set the pre gain at - 5db? Is this also a way of gain staging your audio?
Pre Gain is not useful when Recording. It's good to work with if you need to Gain Stage before starting your Mix, but not when recording
Hi Chris How can I get reverb in the singers headphones. I use a mono track to record with the monitor button off and duplicate the track with rec button off but monitor on. This way the singer can follow the track for punch ins.But they always want reverb.Thanks
Here are a couple of videos that can help outua-cam.com/video/RuOn6qEs4z4/v-deo.html ua-cam.com/video/UJcpLXKI-HU/v-deo.html Hope that helps!
Thanks Sir
Welcome
I need this as i need a fast way to get mixes done
There you go!
Newb question here: I would assume that on my external audio device that I would want to keep those levels is close to A max of zero DB. So before even working in the DAW, get the audio interface levels as high as possible without going past zero. The reason I'm asking this is because you have this -18 DB and I'm assuming that's for post-processing after the audio interface?
I can't lie... I get lost in the majesty of that beard sometimes and have to rewind the video... my god man, it's perfect!
Another great bit of info here, as usual... Thanks for always making amazing videos!
LOL! Thanks!
Great!
Thank you
You're welcome!
A good theme, unfortunately at the scheduled time (11:30 am here) I am myself teaching students 😺so I can’t do it to the premiere, what always a good time is. Of course I will watch later. The Power of the Great Mix be with you!
Better late than never :)
If I am tracking guitar through a guitar plugin do I place the VU after or before the plugin? It makes a big difference so which would be right? Thanks
I just saw this video (2yo now) and noticed the recent questions haven’t been answered. Here’s my offering… If you are using a guitar plugin, like an amp sim, it’s probably better to record the direct input (DI) and put the plugin later in the signal chain (and monitor it while you record, so that you still hear the desired tone while you track). That way you have heaps more options afterwards, like completely changing the plugin settings to different amp, cabs, etc without having to re-record.
@@RogerBadgerDSFlyer that makes sense. Thanks
Loud and clear 😎
Yep!
One could set the channel meters colouring to imitate the VU meter colouring i.e. have the meter change to red at -18.
This is what I do, however the Meter reading on a channel is Peak Level opposed to VU that is average level. So use the -18 point on your Peak Level channel as a point you should not get under.
@@mixdownonline What about very quiet sounds, e.g. tiny bells or whispered vocals? Would you record these too at -18?
instant LIKE!
Much appreciated!
Love the VUMT (and Deluxe version) meter, works great for setting levels except for transient stuff like drums, for that I like the Waves Dorrough meter. I'm curious what your metering color code is set to and why... Thanks!
I like to see the -18dbfs point on my faders so I know I don't want to get below that point. That's basically it :)
Fav online learning platform I use studione pro 5 and cubase pro 10.5
Never tried ST1 yet but heard only good things :)
@@mixdownonline well, the last two versions of ST1 were developed with people who was earlier working in the Cubase developement team. Working with ST1 4 & 5 starts to feel like working with Cubase XD.
That is pretty much what I go for. Max peaks of -6 but they rarely hit that level.
You got it!
I have a Cubase5.LOG problem
How to solve it
Contact Steinberg support
Mantul 👍👍
Thanks
Waiting.....
Well !GREAT TOPIC MY FREIND ! YES ! YES !YES ! OLD TIME VS TODAY COULD NOT COPE SAME TECHNIQUE NITHER GOALS ! i am BBC Sound Engineering Member and we implemented or at least have tried 2 times the level ware in the consumption cowering twice the consumer volume and implement via Media new Scales analyzers as well!
Because we simply first time ,we had change or gear right ?We have change or domain right !?Also we have changed our media and publishing aspects and delivery ! At in the end we have such called in ear headphones systems that my death people !
I m speaking about as you now 0 or plus 10 dB depending Noise Floor level and cip amplification rec units chain vs now when we deal directly or preamp capable over 95dB Amplification with very lo self-noise ration !We have a debate those time maybe you remember !What happened with SN rec in digital ! Nothing because people will think by alter a clip representation on 32 Bit or more will end up doing actually something bad instead not !Many lack of knowledge during those times.
Let me just mention a steady rule stayed over time and that's being the "proper-gain staging all production process" .Because printing a clips no matter what domain mean something altering no matter what domain means totally other thing !
Yes......I should try going down to 10 db
:)
please include audio and midi channels.
All Audio Recording
Maybe this rules apply only for PRO !Printing knowing BEST YOU HAVE AS ARSENAL! Meaning full character each if it the case of master print aims! Aid here will come more like :intensity ,power, focal and direction ,yeas volume and gain !
dont like 24 bit you have to truncate back to what ever your medium is and where is computer putting extra bits record in medium your going to use your recordings will sound better of coarse higher bit rate is better but eight bit synths still sound good
Bit rate has nothing to do with sound quality. It has to do with the amount of Dynamic Range you have :-)
Cubase is great 👍
Yes it is!
I dont no how to thank u about yours video
It's my pleasure!
🙏🏻🤟🙏🏻
You're welcome!
There is really only one thing and one thing only anyone should be paying attention to when recording audio. And that is: OBSERVE 0VU.
Gain stage every single analog device in your chin properly, including your A/D/A, and you will be a much much happier engineer, mixer, artist and musican.
Digital meters are useless as the scale is whatever you or anyone wants it to be. If you choose -18dBFS = 0VU , great. But now OBSERVE IT. If you're recording " healthy " peak levels any higher than +6dB VU (-12dBFS) you are distorting. Period.
Maybe you have a TeleFunken 251 , a NEVE 1073s and a Tube-Tech CL1B. Guess what, you're still distorting. In the most pleasant, gradual way known to humans, but compression is distortion nevertheless.
I'm gonna guess most aren't using that gear, and further, your A/D's cannot handle +18dB OVER OVU. They start to go by about +8-10dB over 0VU.
Forget about " using all the bits " it's a myth I very humbly must point out. You are using all the bits you could possibly NEED even if you were recording at -60dB. When you record with ANY PEAKS above +3-+6dB FS, the bottom of your bit, the LSB is just empty. Nada.
Operate all your analog gear observing 0VU and learn how slow VU meters are for transients. -20VU is a great level for Kick drum. Feel better about watching peak meters? Cool, turn turn the level of your gain stages so you don't see much if any info above -12dBFS PEAKS.
Everything will open up, you mixes will mix themselves, your ADA will breathe life again and your mastering engineer will thank you profusely and have so much more to work with.
Observe 0VU. Analog is how we make and listen to sound. Digital is just the processor and storage medium. Follow this one rule and you will be rewarded greatly.
Feel free to ask me why. Too much to type here tho. ;)
Totally agree, that's what I share in this video. We're saying the same thing. Stay around -18 dbfs RMS (Not Peak) which is about 0VU (average level). The reality is that most home studio musicians don't record or mix with VU Meters so my version of it is to use Peak and RMS Meters correctly. The importance of knowing the difference between Peak and Averarage metering levels in Digital Recording is key here IMO.
You can have a vocal that gets peaks at -10dbfs Peak level and will not necessarily go above 0VU or -18 dbfs RMS. I record with preamps that have VU Meters so yes, I stay around 0Vu unless I want that nice saturation on my recordings that can sound very good. As far as the Bit Rate thing, that's one of those debates among credible audio engineers that I'm not gonna get into, I don't record at -60 so I don't care much ;-)
Thanks for sharing your thoughts! I appreciate that :)
@@mixdownonline Yes, my bad for the tone. I realize it comes across like I disagree with your video but I see we are on the same page. I get a little heated (to say the least) in expressing how important it is to operate the gear at 0VU avg and how digital " level " is a tragedy of confusion for so many new and veteran engineers bc they mistakenly (thru no fault of their own) apply their knowledge of metering from analog world to digital world. And with all the misinformation out there it gets lost that the only purpose of digital metering is to keep an eye on overs, make sure signal is passing, and just visual comfort.
I try to close the gap by explaining (poorly unfortunately) that the only levels and meters that are important to the sound one is getting are the ones in real life, aka analog levels of the sources being recorded and the optimal use of any and all gear in your chain that is before (or after) the digital converters.
It should be in every DAW manual that the meters are just to monitor safety of your digital overs and encoding and stress how important it is to have at least one VU meter for AVG RMS level in your chain, both your signal path and your monitoring path. (Think about how unfortunate it is how much good content gets processed based on monitor levels that are feeding Line level input at near 0dBfs output just destroying whatever the op amps are in between the D/A and the speakers! Totally squashed and distorted even if the actual digital files are perfect. Most monitoring systems can't reproduce transients that are like +20dB over 0VU RMS. Think of all the affordable DAW hardware out there for home studios that make possible AMAZING recordings and mind boggling technology that 25 years ago cost 25k, but that the manuals don't express clearly that you can't be sending 0dBFs RMS (!!!) to your D/As for monitoring. You of course want the INTERNAL DIGITAL MIXER to be nice and hot and highly dynamic for your 24bit mix file but it gets lost in translation that the CONVERSION process to listen to your work must be scaled down in voltage a TON before it exits those D/As .
It's all very confusing because digital wasn't introduced to the market properly. They were worried no one would adopt or be scared of it so they tried to market it as " hey it's analog but better! " SO everyone just applied their analog knowledge to the digital process. Which the two have nothing in common.
They should have made RMS metering a LAW in every DAW from the early days.
I hope you get that I'm just very passionate about audio recording and reproduction and wish I could get the message out that the marketing was false and just stick to analog guidelines and you'll be fine.
I really like your content and didn't mean to sound like I was renting at you or your work. It's one of the best, clear descriptions of level setting.
I want everyone to be able to get the most out of their gear and DAWs and I believe this observe 0VU concept is one of the most crucial points to grasp, at every point in a recording and reproduction chain.
Thank you for the stimulating conversation! I'm an old school tape guy that means well and wants the best for everyone in modern digital times :)
@@digilifepro No worries, I got that you're passionate about this. Very confusing for a lot. It was for me as well for a long time. I don't have an analog background, I jumped right ITB from the start. Thanks again for sharing your thoughts on this :)
@@mixdownonline cool I'm glad it was possible to see my thoughts beneath the ranty-ness. Haha.
Two other big topics for me in the ITB space is how to compensate for processing delay (auto delay compensation can get tricky with certain plugs).
And also inter sample peak distortion. Avoiding that really helped my final masters. The Sony Sonnox plugins like the Limiter and the Exciter do wonderful things to prevent this odd digital distortion that can add a slight smear to a mix.
Ok I promise in done commenting now. Cheers! 👍🏼
1:30 - You mean bit DEPTH. A common mistake
guys ill save you 1000s of hours of scratching your head, buy ozone elements 8 and click on learn threshold lufs
booom your mic recording will sound at radio level problem solved
Or you can watch this video and learn and understand how you can record properly ;)
Dude, that is dumb advice.
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