BBC DISASTER??? She’s NOT real fine, my 409! AND How to accurately Measure your engine tolerances

Поділитися
Вставка
  • Опубліковано 3 лис 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 104

  • @stevesadusky8634
    @stevesadusky8634 Місяць тому +3

    Excellent video AG! It's great that you take the time to explain everything in layman terms so that your audience can follow along and comprehend. Keep them coming!! 👍👍👍👍👍

    • @goldsgarage8236
      @goldsgarage8236  Місяць тому

      Thanks for your comments Steve. Lot's of content to come. AG

  • @Foxtrot1967
    @Foxtrot1967 Місяць тому +2

    Great video and info. Your channel has great potential. Looking forward to watching all the upcoming video's of this 409 build. Keep the wonderful original content coming.

    • @goldsgarage8236
      @goldsgarage8236  Місяць тому

      Thanks for your comments Fox, lots of comment to come.AG

  • @alleyoop1234
    @alleyoop1234 Місяць тому +8

    Gold's Garage is one channel that I always click 'Like' at the very start, as I am sure it will be quality content!
    Geez, it has to be 40 years since I saw a knurled piston..

  • @mhardy216
    @mhardy216 Місяць тому +7

    Always good content here Sir, we all appreciate the honest and thorough work here at Golds garage!

    • @goldsgarage8236
      @goldsgarage8236  Місяць тому

      Thanks so much for watching and commenting Mhardy.AG

  • @billfioretti3013
    @billfioretti3013 Місяць тому +4

    Alan, Thank you for this look into the rarely-covered 348-409 Chevrolet Engine series. Picking up and correcting where incompetent or mistake-laden work was previously performed is not for the weak of heart or wallet. Most of us have heard of stacked tolerances. I refer to techs who take on projects such as this 409 as having "Tolerance for stacked intolerances." Takes a special, determined person to see a project such as this through to its successful conclusion.

    • @goldsgarage8236
      @goldsgarage8236  Місяць тому +2

      Thanks for your comments Bill, stick with me and i will take you through the process to a successful conclusion. AG

  • @bobnewman8978
    @bobnewman8978 Місяць тому +5

    The best part of your show is that I always learn something new. Awesome show!

  • @kimmorrison9169
    @kimmorrison9169 Місяць тому +1

    Thanks Al, luved the Leak Down test, how to use the mic and the dial bore tools. Will be interesting how this one comes together. Lets hope you have a good block and heads to work with.

    • @goldsgarage8236
      @goldsgarage8236  Місяць тому

      Thanks Kim. Bad news on the block, coming up on the next video.AG

  • @pauljanssen7594
    @pauljanssen7594 Місяць тому +2

    My brother bought this 409 12.1 compression 3/4 race cam 3-2 barrels carbs it was in two cars nobody could handle the horsepower they totaled both cars and walked away barely. My brother sold the engine before I put it in his car he was building he was a little bit afraid of the horsepower. It was a very well-built engine.

  • @danboquist
    @danboquist Місяць тому +12

    Daniel at Powell Maching says that he has cores for a 409 camshaft. His Chanel is on UA-cam./

    • @ericuncapher9922
      @ericuncapher9922 Місяць тому +3

      @@danboquist Powell is another quality channel 👍

    • @ThisFyneOleTruck
      @ThisFyneOleTruck Місяць тому +2

      GREAT place, their a few hours from me.

    • @goldsgarage8236
      @goldsgarage8236  Місяць тому +1

      Thanks Dan, yes, I agree I have watched his videos also. AG

  • @1958johndeere620
    @1958johndeere620 Місяць тому +3

    I bet someone had a whoopsie on the bore. The process of measuring was good info. I am not a pro, so its all a learning curve. Thanks for your time.

  • @StuartBlake-iz6rf
    @StuartBlake-iz6rf Місяць тому +1

    Alan, love your channel. You take us all through a professional analysis and projected rebuild. The sharing is just fantastic. Everyone is better off understanding or better off being able to imitate a rebuild. Thank you and all the best. your Aussie mate

    • @goldsgarage8236
      @goldsgarage8236  Місяць тому

      Thanks Stuart. i appreciate your kind words, and hello Australia. AG

  • @terryenyart5838
    @terryenyart5838 Місяць тому +2

    Tips: "ringing" a crankshaft, other components or a chassis to detect rigidity is an old school tip and useful in detecting a cracked component. Some chassis builders ring a suspended chassis to measure the frequency to make sure it's right. Also note the parting line is wide on a forged component, while cast has a sharp line/ridge. Powdered metal rods look different, but typically have a precision wide line or none. Aftermarket rods typically have no forging marks, and do not resemble OE rods. Great information!

    • @goldsgarage8236
      @goldsgarage8236  Місяць тому +2

      Thanks for your observations terry, all good info.AG

  • @gordonborsboom7460
    @gordonborsboom7460 Місяць тому +2

    I was totally in love with the 62-64 Impalas back in the 80's ss a teenager. That's what makes this video cool for me.

    • @goldsgarage8236
      @goldsgarage8236  Місяць тому

      Thanks Gordon, I was in love with them in the 60's. AG

  • @jamesgeorge4874
    @jamesgeorge4874 Місяць тому +1

    Mk 4 engine family is the OG big block, the 348 and 409 are the W engine family.

  • @MsKatjie
    @MsKatjie Місяць тому +3

    Helpful, most certainly. Thankyou.

  • @royosborn7869
    @royosborn7869 Місяць тому +4

    Good info - thanks for putting this together.

  • @jesse5000
    @jesse5000 Місяць тому +1

    Great video! Thank you!

  • @SandraOrminski
    @SandraOrminski Місяць тому +1

    lets hope you can save another jewel. awesome video alan sir!

    • @goldsgarage8236
      @goldsgarage8236  Місяць тому

      Thanks Sandra, we will need some critical parts. Watch for the follow up.AG

  • @488ci
    @488ci Місяць тому +3

    Very interesting and I like your time and knowledge.

  • @DeanStewart-t4v
    @DeanStewart-t4v Місяць тому +3

    Very good information on how too.

  • @TomSmith-cv8hk
    @TomSmith-cv8hk Місяць тому +3

    Good job Mr gold.

  • @michaelvoigt8801
    @michaelvoigt8801 Місяць тому +3

    This is another Golden quality video!

  • @joe-hp4nk
    @joe-hp4nk Місяць тому +2

    Finding a machine shop you can trust is paramount. Unfortunately for the most part it's a shot in the dark. If they've been in business a long time and or you get a good reference, that's a good start.

    • @goldsgarage8236
      @goldsgarage8236  Місяць тому +1

      Thanks Joe. I am fortunate to have Atchison Machine doing my work. They are in London Canada. AG

  • @kevink8481
    @kevink8481 Місяць тому +5

    Person that bought this must be pretty upset

    • @goldsgarage8236
      @goldsgarage8236  Місяць тому

      Thanks Kevin, he is taking it pretty well. AG

  • @toddbrown2236
    @toddbrown2236 Місяць тому +1

    I'm learning a lot watching your videos, Allan. Great content and very interesting - especially with unique engines like the 409. Knurled pistons - that's a first for me. Very interesting. I'm interested to know the total cost (parts and labor) to rebuild this engine. It's a good bet it won't be cheap. If your customer is agreeable, it would be great if you could give us a breakdown of the costs. Thanks for sharing with us. I'm looking forward to the next video.

    • @goldsgarage8236
      @goldsgarage8236  Місяць тому +1

      Thanks Todd, not as exciting as being a test pilot. The block is at Atchison Machine now. No it won't be cheap, however these engines are iconic and valuable, and that is why we have to do it right. We will try to share some cost info as we go. AG

  • @truthboomertruthbomber5125
    @truthboomertruthbomber5125 Місяць тому +2

    I’m working on an ACVW that was built by a professional hack mechanic. For some reason the #1 intake lifter is hung up in its bore.

  • @cabotbroughton7458
    @cabotbroughton7458 Місяць тому

    Alan great video but I have one counter point, if one is just checking crank clearances in a used engine you are hoping to not tear down plasti gauge is going to be way faster than micrometer and dial bore gauge.

  • @ericuncapher9922
    @ericuncapher9922 Місяць тому +1

    Another great video!

  • @shadvan9494
    @shadvan9494 Місяць тому +2

    wow. .016 oversize on the #8 cylinder is crazy. I have never seen anything quite that out of spec. I know knurling pistons was a big thing back in the 50s and 60. that was only for .005 if the bore was worn out. and they would do the whole piston skirt and then machine the piston back down to get the proper piston to wall clearance. Knurled pistons never lasted very long. it was one of those things to get you by until you could fix it right, or just last until the end of the racing season, where in the Drag Racing world it would only see 25-50 miles in a season depending how many passes you make and what class you were running. the other thing that will happen with enlarged bores is that the piston rings may not seal with .016 over size. (Usually, forged piston runs .0035 and .005 piston to wall clearance depending on the type of piston material used. so, an engine with a 4.000 would have a piston that measured 3.995, since the piston to bore clearance is built into the piston during manufacturing. so, in reality the cylinder is probably about .016 is closer to .020. so, the rings are not going to have the proper compress spring tension to scrape oil off the cylinder wall. and the gaps are probably too big to maintain a seal plus all the blow by in the ring gaps from being over size. if that was a pre-gapped ring, which i suspect it is based on the leak down numbers, i bet that gap is huge. pre-gapped rings are around .004 to .0045 per inch of cylinder bore. the 409, with a .060 overbore should be 4.3725. and should have a ring gap of around .018 -.020 depending on the ring manufacture. with that extra .011, the ring is going to expand and be around .020-.023 and have significantly less ring tension. it would have sucked oil terribly. as for the crank clearances, i set mine depending on the purpose of the engine. for a streetcar you can get by with .0005 per inch of journal diameter. with a stock crank main journal of 2.49772. you can get by with a .0015 on the mains and .001 on the rods. but a mild performance engine making in the 400 hp range, I would be running .0007 per inch of journal diameter. so around .0015 on the rods, and .002 on the mains. for a full-on race engine, I like .0009 to .001 per inch of journal diameter. so, between .0023-.0025 on the mains, and between .002 and .0023 on the rods. with either the high performance or racing engine you would run a high-performance oil pump. for the street motor, any standard oil pump would be fine. I know lots of engine builder that like looser clearances that i run. but I have not had problems with spun bearings, or scuffing when you use good oils and a good quality oil pump, and a pan designed for the racing application. oil starvation is usually the killer of engine with tight bearing clearances. most of the high-performance and racing stuff i build is for offshore power boats or drag boats. so, its dry sumps in power boats and baffled and trap door pans on the drag boats. if i was building for a car that was being raced or auto crossed. then i would be using baffled and trap door pans or dry sumps there too. anyways, i love this series on the 409. I would love to find one to add to my collection of engines. the dual quad is cool. but i am looking for a 409 with a tri power. the 3 Rochester's are super cool.
    I currently have a LT1 350, a 255 flat head ford, an LS6 454, most of a 1969 427 L88 crate engine, it needs one new head. one of mine is extremely damaged and would cost a fortune to repair. been keeping my eyes open, they come up every now and then on eBay. but the ones in the 5-6k range are usually beat to death, welded, or in need of repairs like mine or have been surfaced too much. a matched pair of good ones don't last very long and bring 7-10k. depending on the castings, the seller, and if some restorer is looking for a set for a L89 is searching for them. and bidding wars get ugly and for me is just a hobby to collect cool historical engines. and have them as close to stock as possible and in running condition. also have an air-cooled VW 1600 dual port not anything fancy bust still cool for a historical perspective.

    • @randyoehlert5045
      @randyoehlert5045 Місяць тому

      If you run a power adder, a turbo, blower, or nitrous, you have to use a wider ring gap, or the gap will close and break the rings. Just thought I would mention that.

    • @shadvan9494
      @shadvan9494 Місяць тому

      True. You do need a wide ring gap for power adders. But those are wider gas with the proper ring tension. The cylinder bore big .011 too big would both widen the gap and reduce ring tension and both would be bad for this engine.

    • @goldsgarage8236
      @goldsgarage8236  Місяць тому

      Thanks Shadvan. Lot's of great information, thanks for taking the time to share.AG

  • @91rss
    @91rss Місяць тому

    builder mentioned re cranks, the 3 ton 350's had forged lt1 cranks Look at the flywheel flange for hammer marks. also they had 7" T3 headlights. and the 366's had a forged crank the 396's used he said

    • @goldsgarage8236
      @goldsgarage8236  Місяць тому

      good info about cranks, thanks 91, we are always learning.AG

  • @rickengman
    @rickengman Місяць тому

    Super, Thanks or going a little In-Depth on this one. My 64 X Block is Virgin, Never been Bored or Decked and my 62 Q Block is Bored 60 over. I was worried about how much Bore was available in the 409. I haven't seen many numbers, I generally see between 80 and 100. I'm having both of mine Sonic measured to determine exactly. Could you also show how to correctly measure the Deck Height for the 409? I would also love to have a blank copy of your Spreadsheet somehow, It probably has things on it I haven't thought about .

    • @goldsgarage8236
      @goldsgarage8236  Місяць тому +1

      Thanks Rick, you are fortunate to have a virgin 409 block. We will look for a way to share the spreadsheet formats. Also the block is in the MS now, we will let you know how much is available to over-bore. AG

  • @wtdonovan
    @wtdonovan Місяць тому

    hmmmm an 080 overbore, I wonder if the customer will entertain a 4" BBC crank for a 484 plus cubic inch build? I've never done it but see where it has been discussed. If you are already in for a full rebuild it always feels like a win to get more cubes :) pretty neat these already had a massive bore from stock specs.

    • @goldsgarage8236
      @goldsgarage8236  Місяць тому +1

      Thanks William. We have a good crank (subject to checking) so we will stick to the stock stroke. AG

    • @wtdonovan
      @wtdonovan Місяць тому

      @@goldsgarage8236 bench racing is hard to resist 😀

  • @terryenyart5838
    @terryenyart5838 Місяць тому

    Nursing is something we could stoll do if we did not have access to a boring bar, or was in a SHTF scenario and needed to make an engine run as good as possible without much machine work. Otherwise you're right, badcwayvto spend money when doing it right with proper clearances lasts and provides best performance. Same with valve guides. But for something that gets little use, it does work well enough when done correctly.

    • @goldsgarage8236
      @goldsgarage8236  Місяць тому

      Thanks Terry. We will do it right and take it to the dyno to prove it.AG

  • @chrishensley6745
    @chrishensley6745 Місяць тому

    Have seen that on number 8 cyl. years back working at local engine machine shop..The guy that bored the blocks bad been into it since the 60,s....Always told me when a block comes in and needs bored..Most guys just use the bore gauge on number 1 cylinder to determine what to bore should be and said always check number 8 also were most boring bars people start on number 1 on a chevy and when they get to number 8 it want clean up and they go little more...usually seen it on them Autozone or Advance auto re-man engines....was usually .030 over then number 8 was .040...sloppy work/but like you said you want know a engine till ya tear it down....that number 8 is WAY too big!

    • @goldsgarage8236
      @goldsgarage8236  Місяць тому

      Thanks Chris. Hard to determine what happened on this one.AG

  • @twgarage-terrywatson1672
    @twgarage-terrywatson1672 Місяць тому +1

    Appears to be a 62 068 castings block. Your hand was blocking the number but I believe it ends in 068. Deck is 74 degrees. No notches in the car block as opposed to the truck parts. Cool build. Any idea on the price after this engine is complete?

    • @goldsgarage8236
      @goldsgarage8236  Місяць тому

      Thanks Terry. Yes it is an 068 block, and it is not a truck block also. We will put a price on it after we get it built and see how much it costs. AG

    • @twgarage-terrywatson1672
      @twgarage-terrywatson1672 Місяць тому

      @@goldsgarage8236 Fantastic, thanks for the reply. I always enjoy your content. You and my Dad would get along well. I’m in the middle or restoring his 62 SS 409 impala.

  • @ponga782
    @ponga782 Місяць тому +3

    Which dial bore guage set do you have?

  • @alanmize5627
    @alanmize5627 Місяць тому

    is it possible to sleeve a block like a 409 or 430 lincoln ?

    • @goldsgarage8236
      @goldsgarage8236  Місяць тому

      Thanks Alan. That's a great question. I don't know about the Lincoln, but the 409 will be tricky due to the deck angle. Hopefully we don't have to sleeve this one. It is the MS now. I will keep you informed.AG

    • @alanmize5627
      @alanmize5627 Місяць тому

      @@goldsgarage8236 the 430 lincoln had a similer deck angle and combustion chamber thanks

  • @samstewart4807
    @samstewart4807 Місяць тому +1

    you need an rditor.

  • @sgtyork9330
    @sgtyork9330 Місяць тому

    A person could stroke a 348 easily with a 396 steel crank and be a 408 at .030" over bore and cheaper than a real 409. Edelbrock aluminum heads and dual quad intake. A 454 crank would jump it to 427 with std. bore.

  • @itseithergonnaworkoritaint7852
    @itseithergonnaworkoritaint7852 Місяць тому

    So don't throw the baby out with the bath water if it sonic checks to thin to go .080" over, maybe having that 1 cylinder sleeved can salvage that expensive to replace block?
    Also if the rest of the pistons are in decent shape maybe you can get away with buying 1 piston and if they're a bit small after the hone send them to Line 2 Line engine coatings to coat the pistons to be the correct size. They can coat them up to .020" that would be good for a .040" over bore.(.020" per side) That coating is supposed to be self clearancing so you want it to be very close to the cylinder size.
    The mentioned company is in Waterford Michigan not to far from you, maybe you can drop them off and pick them up in person? This way maybe you can do a video of their operation? The last time I looked it was 30 bucks to coat a piston, if those 7 are still nice forged pistons it might be worth coating them, the knurled one might even be salvageable having it coated after filing the knurling down? Wouldn't hurt to ask them.
    Something to look into anyway that can save a bunch of money. You could even just buy one .080" over piston if the knurled one can't be saved. It'll run just fine and will last a long time that way. Unless you have ADD this repair would be totally fine for tens or hundreds of thousands of miles of trouble free service if everything else is maintained.😎👍

    • @goldsgarage8236
      @goldsgarage8236  Місяць тому +1

      Thanks for the info IEGTWOIA, The block is at Atchison Machine right now being pressure tested, sonic tested and Mag particle tested. We will go from there. AG

  • @pamdunn8454
    @pamdunn8454 Місяць тому

    we have a 1969 Chevrolet 396ci Camaro date code JB long block for sale

    • @goldsgarage8236
      @goldsgarage8236  Місяць тому

      Thanks for the info Pam. You can contact through my channel. AG

  • @randyoehlert5045
    @randyoehlert5045 Місяць тому

    After boring the block, it's no longer a 409.

  • @shoelessb4515
    @shoelessb4515 Місяць тому

    Was this engine purchased as a runner or a coffee table ?

  • @terrysmith8133
    @terrysmith8133 Місяць тому

    looks like the guy selling the engine was extremely dishonest. where did he buy it?

    • @goldsgarage8236
      @goldsgarage8236  Місяць тому

      Thanks for the question Terry. I think Brett has had it for a long time, but i don't know any more details. AG

  • @philstar905
    @philstar905 Місяць тому +1

    you're the best🦾

    • @goldsgarage8236
      @goldsgarage8236  Місяць тому +1

      Very nice compliment Phil. Thanks. AG

    • @philstar905
      @philstar905 Місяць тому

      @@goldsgarage8236 I vhave no clue how a car is run… I’m just a very good driver. But you give me the confidence. to maybe one day change the oil in my car.😅 thank you Sir. god bless you and you’re family 🦾🙌

  • @alweiss9356
    @alweiss9356 Місяць тому

    To much talk about bull shit

  • @brianholcomb6499
    @brianholcomb6499 Місяць тому +1

    Butcher built 🙄🙄🙄🙄! If you need to take up clearances on pistons, line to line coatings work excellent! Lamar Walden automotive is an excellent source for parts! They specialize in the 348/409 engines! Best look at those heads really good! Because most of them have been reworked many many times! Also need to check for cracking! I’m sure you know that!

    • @goldsgarage8236
      @goldsgarage8236  Місяць тому +1

      Thanks Brian, all good info and advice. AG

  • @yafois988
    @yafois988 5 днів тому

    8 Sleeves.

    • @goldsgarage8236
      @goldsgarage8236  4 дні тому

      Thanks Yafo, pretty expensive remedy.AG

    • @yafois988
      @yafois988 4 дні тому

      @@goldsgarage8236 What else choice on irreplaceable block that cannot be punched out any further?
      Especially if it’s number matching ?