So frustrating watching Mike struggle to understand Croncy's point about nerfs. CIG doesn't have to think about every crafting permutation. All they have to decide is what the MAXIMUM STATS are for every ship at T5. If people realize they can craft a Gladius that goes 600 m/s and that's too fast, they just compress those values until they achieve the balance that they want. As for ships that are ALREADY MADE they automatically are rebalanced according to the new stat bands. It's that simple. Mike acting like once you craft something CIG can't change it's stats is missing the forest for the trees.
[ TL;DR: The crucial part to understand is that the game would never store the final result of the crafting process, only the "ingredients" that go into the calculation. It would not destroy the source data. ] He's also missing the trees for the trees. Here's the math: _BASELINE_ ship stats + _CRAFTING_ improvement scalar tier 1 through 5 * Your crafting _RESULT MULTIPLIER_ 1 through 5 = _TOTAL_ ship stats. This gets recalculated whenever they feel is appropriate. Probably not every frame, but literally whenever they need it. Written in long form, equivalent to the above: Baseline ship stats + Crafting improvement scalar tier 1 * Your crafting result multiplier 1 + Crafting improvement scalar tier 2 * Your crafting result multiplier 2 + Crafting improvement scalar tier 3 * Your crafting result multiplier 3 + Crafting improvement scalar tier 4 * Your crafting result multiplier 4 + Crafting improvement scalar tier 5 * Your crafting result multiplier 5 = Final ship stats. _BASELINE_ and _CRAFTING_ numbers can be changed with extreme ease just like any other stat in the game. If for some reason they need to change your specific _RESULT MULTIPLIER_ and it is not fully deterministic based on the materials logged that were put into the ship kept on record, they can easily do that with a script by simply iterating through every crafted ship in the game and applying a transform function like a simple multiplication or a fancy curve. They run scripts on all our accounts many times each year for all the website hangar stuff already, and this is no different. They can also add the transform function directly to the game code, processing _RESULT MULTIPLIER_ through _TRANSFORM FUNCTION_ before multiplying it with _CRAFTING_ then adding that to _BASELINE._ There are a billion different ways to set up and work basic algebra problems like this. So, stay in school, kids.
He really just had to bring up Elites system and that would've been that. But in reality crafting equation will probably calculate out to (base stat) x (fractional modifier)=crafted item stats. And the modifier is determined by a couple of dice rolls. Change where the dice correlate to the modifier and you change the range, value, and you can even factor in constants like personal skills into the equation at any point. If the ships stats is always understood by the code as the equation then you just change the equation and it changes all possible permeatations, even though the permeatations are probably going to be stratified by difficulty and resources vs personal skill and resource quality.
If you want to be a murder hobo, you take your Arrow and recognize that hobo's aren't exactly known for having hordes of wealth. If you want to have hordes of wealth, maybe you play as a pirate and take a ship that can hold some loot in its hold. SC should not be promoting random PVP, but rather PVP that is motivated by reasonable necessities - territory control, piracy, whatever. I see the whole "death of a spaceman" ideal as a tool to deter griefing and toxic PVP.
Absolutely. This is why the factions and guilds are important. If you can be linked to a guild or group then the PvP makes sense with lore. Not just random PvP. That is for arena commander.
Only way that works is with a marker probe. The probe would set a shutdown shield around salvage so no other ship could salvage it. Probe has code only buyer has access to so no one could salvage area but buyer. This already sounds like too much work to type, let alone CIG program into existence. And I'm only half way thru. So no that's a terrible idea. Selling markers is useless if the sale 109% depends on a trust system within player base.
Murder hobos will never be happy, and CIG shouldn't base any of their intentions on what murder hobos want in the game. Their opinion means nothing to the end result of what this game is meant to become.
On the note of solo PVP'ing, if they ever let us set custom markers. Once you kill someone you could sell the location to someone in a hauler or someone who wants to salvage. Would be super cool if you could scan the wreckage and tie that data to the location information you were selling so people could know what they were buying and would allow you to sell better wreckage for higher prices.
Thats what I was thinking as he was talking about it. I think that also ties into the player rep you earn that they were talking about in cit con. Hey I have this location, I'm a trusted person so you can trust that this place has a ship to be salvaged and isn't just a trap.
51:11 The solution to the moneymaking with light fighters for solo players might be in data, they might not be able to salvage anything but it will still be there for others, if we can mark the location and sell it to others that can do this you solve the problem and create new gameplay at the same time.
Ships like the Arrow and Gladius are hyper specialized for dogfighting. If you want to go off dogfighting and then looting the wreckage, you bring an Avenger or 325a or Hornet w/ cargo box, and then rely on being the better pilot to bridge the gap in your ships raw combat ability. Additionally, IRL fighters can carry storage pods on their external hardpoints for use when rebasing. An arrow might sacrifice some of its missiles for a little bit of storage space for those 1 or 2 size 1 components.
Solo pvp players should just accept that whatever ship they use is what they are able to pull loot to. You can find a looting buddy with another ship but breaking physics to fit items you want into a small fighter is dumb. If I choose to run cargo im choosing to be slaughtered by fighters in the chance of pvp and I have to accept it. Go back get a hauler to grab the loot and risk the chance you might run into a scavenger or the owner and have to deal with it.
They are still iterating on armor and turrets once manned turrets can beam light fighters consistently with good time on target its ggbyebyelightfightermeta.
That isn't really the scenario they were talking about tho, it was more a Gladius fights a Talon or other size 1 ship they would like to be able to put a component in the backpack. It is totally reasonable, most size 1 parts are not much bigger than a 6 pack of beers you should easily be able to put one in your pack and one in the ship storage
@SalteMike - If you're a solo PVP'r you can soft death a ship, then if you could sell that location to people who salvage as a beacon/mission. 50k UEC for a corsair salvage mission in game currently... so .. uh yeah that's lots of cash pretty damn fast.
44:00 min talking about having an arrow fly like another ship like a gladius or Buc is fundamentally flawed, I know on the presentation they said it will be somewhat possible. What the Devs seem to not value as much is the cross section of the ships, if an Arrow had similar performance stats to a gladius it would be completely dominant. Smaller targets are harder to hit especially at range, it effectively gives the arrow an accuracy bonus/hp buff. You cannot have one ship perform like another as whatever ship is physically smaller will be the meta choice
Mike - your ship stats, and how those stats were achieved, are all just data points in a database. At any point they can say "Any Gladius wich has a Tier 5 top speed bonus gets nerfed by 5%". So if a Tier 5 bonus is anywhere from +70-80%, they can rebalance it to be +65-75%, and with it any existing Tier 5 crafted Gladius engine bonuses would drop by 5%. For some reason you're assuming that once your ship is crafted, they can't touch it, and that it's stats are permanent. That's the flaw in your thought process.
the best loot for a light fighter could be something like a black box that gives information about the components for the ship you took out, so you can sell the blueprints or even have like a reverse engineering aspect to it or a hacking aspect or something.
The misunderstanding around the 35:00 mark might been avoided if you all spent a bit more time recapping/explaining how you interpreted what CIG was saying in the IAE episodes. I feel like both of you interpreted the information provided in different ways, but because you didn't spend time explaining what you thought they said things would work, you didn't have the opportunity to figure out maybe a core difference in how you interpreted what they were saying or how these systems would work.
48:25 the answer is very simple you use a larger ship that is still capable in dog fights like a Spirit and you now have a cargo hold to store what you loot.
I think it's hilarious that people got frustrated when Mike wasn't understanding The crafting situation. This shit happens all the time with people especially with friends. If anything I felt the frustration of both of them. It's an amusing reflection of why we shouldn't assume something is obvious when other people see it a different way or are thinking down a different path.
@@MurkMercyto be fair, the cutlass is pretty competent without its crew. The vanguard even more so. The problems are with ships like the hawk or gladius that are marketed towards the pvp crowd and don't have that kind of interior (hawk does have external storage but it's kinda weird what you can get in there and not.)
1:58:30 Reminding people of the terms they agreed to when they pledged to a game in development isn't telling them how to feel. It's reminding them of the terms they agreed to. It's reminding them of the terms they agreed to then they pledged to a game in development.
I'll say it again, for the millionth time. ROCK PAPER SCISSORS IS NOT BALANCE. It's circular imbalance. It's a game designer's crutch in order not to have to balance anything. I would love to see a direct skill contest between fighters and turrets as if they were 2 fighters locked in PvP.
@@MrClassytangerine Balance exists to bring two different opposing forces into rough parity, so that what matters is player skill. This was implied by everything I have said up until this point. I apologize for not spelling it out letter by letter. Feel free to let me know if you still do not understand.
Easy answer is looting mobiglas off of people's wrists as a trophy and potentially either hacking them to "steal money" from the player you killed. either actually stealing money (up to a certain cap) or artificially "stealing" it by giving the thief a monetary reward but not actually taking it from the other player. Lore wise, the thief gets the money but the space FDIC insured the victim from actually losing any.
Sometimes when we do ert's we bring a hauler and salvage crew. We create the wrecks, haulers pick the good stuff out abd salvage munches the wrecks. Its so fun.
@@brianchristopher8843 nice, last one that i ran as an org op we had 45 people come play though bout an 8 hour strech. Imo its almost manditory to join an org, get a decent sized group and go out to play, far better than solo by miles imo.
50:00 what kind of dumb discussion is this? If you want to be a murder hobo, who just wants to kill and nothing else, there shouldn't be much money to be made. And thats it. If you want to earn money fighting people, than pirate or fight in an org or do bounties. Like wtf
@46:24 it's so simple, YOU CALL FOR A hauler, like C2 or whatever... star citizen is NOT EVE it doesn't have to looke the same way. Another example if they introduce custom quantum beacons you can mark your loot - and go back for bigger ship ... you may be quicker than your pray with friends. My POV on your troubles with speeds: - they should implement "life like" algorithms - and it's not a space science! You take into account: 1) ship weight 2) thrusters thrust (power) 3) you may take into account your powerplant - as an option and you calculate maximum speed based upon the variables above. IF you are able craft tier 5 subcomponents like: - hull - that weights less (better - more rare - materials) - thrusters with +X% of thrust (better - more durable - materials) the maximum speed will be calculate-able. A ship full of cargo would be an easier pray LIKE IT SHOULD BE! I can't understand how after 12 years of development there is no such simple physics! @48:22 a solo PVPer HAS to pick the right ship for the job - that's all, or bring othere ppl, there's no other way - and it doesn't have to be!
48:00 If you could just put a pin so you can "sell" this position or go back later and pick it up, that would help. it's nice not all planes have cargo.. Today you can't find your way back to the ship, not even your own if you get out of it and are more than 15-20 km from it..
325a has a 4 scu cargo hold you can use for looting up to size 2 components I think. Not long or wide enough for size 3 weapons at least. Certainly not meta since it's large and kind of fragile but it's fast and armed well. Same with Titan which actually has a larger hold but just handles worse in atmo.
On balance they have been struggling to get a cohesive system in over 5 years with 20 ships really (the most popular one flown) and a handful of components. Now they are saying they will be able to achieve balance with 10,000 more moving parts from unique hull crafting, component and weapon crafting. I have zero faith in them to be able to achieve this, they have shown time and again they are toddlers learning to walk and they want to do a 5km run...there is no bloody chance they get it right
Solo PVP rewards (death of a space man) could be that you steal the dead players "life source" that holds that players skills they have learned. You would be able to sell it or be able to use it to learn there skills. Maybe you would have to take it to a science facility where they would inplant the memories to learn the skills. If you leave it the player that died could retrieve it. Just a thought. Probably a stupid one.
On the crafting Tier V gear and whats OP and balancing- the issue is if CIG makes it harder to craft Tier V gear it means you're snowballing power to the biggest most powerful orgs. Its common to see this in videogames and its often an oversight. Its an exponential power issue- if they've all got Tier V gear that wins the most, it gives them more power to control resources to make more Tier V gear. Typically you'd want to invert this power balance. The more power an org gets the harder it needs to be to maintain. In FPS games they balance power like that because you get pushed closer and closer to the enemy spawn the better you're doing making the enemy come back at you faster and faster. In MMO terms this balance would be some sort of Org tax % that gets more difficult the more stratified they get into the game. But this is just theory crafting in SC yet again which means nothing.
For solo PvP: Idea. What if you can steal money from the killed player by hacking his mobyglass? It could be a certain percentage amount or even better: you can take everything from the dead player. How do you prevent being completely robbed by a death? By being able to decide how much money you have with you and how much you leave in the bank. How do you prevent players from leaving all their money in the bank? By, for example, having merchants who only take "cash" that the player has on his mobi jar and not in the bank AND by, for example, paying a fee to the bank as a percentage of what you have stored in the bank.
Agreed. CIG are pathologically adverse to just using the damn power triangle. They are tying themselves in knots trying to avoid saying the previous model needed tweets instead of a rewrite. Now they are throwing anything out there to try salvage the dev time spent already.
24:21 what would stop soneone, or a bunch of people, kamikaze-ing using quantum boost into a capital ship or space station with their Razors, Furies, etc., doing massive damage in the process? Assuming physics accounts for velocity in damage calculation.
death of a spaceman implications, shields may absorb the damage but also those ships should be made of brittle materials that might not actually do any damage to an armoured ship
I've been saying that NPC transport gameplay isn't going to be in 1.0, because NPC crew won't be in 1.0. Both require nav mesh generation on player ships, and one would assume bespoke behavior implemented for both crew and passengers
Good point but NPC crew would need a lot more code to make them both fair and not lobotomised, for instance running through rooms on fire, running past enemies etc while also not being incredibly smart like discovering a fuse is out on the other side of the ship just by 6th sense, that said both need actual stable servers to work
Also as far as the pricing is concerned with the paladin maybe its cheaper than the redeemer right now because its a concept sale and its flyable raised price would be equal or just above redeemer price so maybe there is a 10$ ccu to paladin when its flight ready
Instantanced fleet battles for solo PvP with a commission or loot delivered to your cargo/hanger could be a possibility for them to make money... Coming soon ™️ 51:27
I think with the crafting of ships, it might be like a skill tree when tiering up. You can't max every stat. You could max one stat and the others would be poor. For example, you put all your research into engines for T5, but your shield and weapons will not get any better than max T4.
i think you have crafting completely confused on how they started it works. you dont craft blue prints you unlock blueprints and its unlocked permanently on your account, the bonuses comes from the materials you use and the quality of the material
I melted my Redeemer to get 330 credits and pledged for Paladin which net me a bunch of "free" store credits for now. I imagine many others have done the same, there is no reason not to unless you believe they will rework the redeemer in the near future increasing it's cost at the same time. I really hope the 600i rework comes soon, it has been in the works for over a year now and it honestly couldn't come any sooner.
First thing for large scale battle would be Earth Vs Terra war with the Civilian Military which will divide Organisations up into two groups to run a econmony and to wage war. With Blue prints have a Maximum amount for the blue Print. So example You Bangel Carrier Blue Print is only 1 Bangel Carrier you can build. Where your armor blue print you may be able to build 150 Armours before needing or earning another blueprint I think that way it limits your stock to take over the Market. Now I have question for Salty will you sell your Tier 5 Items to everybody or keep them for your Organisation to use for their advantage?
Not sure I agree its damage was the sole, or even the main, reason for the Corsair's popularity (though it helped, of course). Just looking at the state of the other ships in its size category (Connies, 400i, errr...?) it's not really hard to see why the Corsair was so popular... Zeus probably stole some of its thunder, despite being smaller (but also needing less crew).
It’s true they need to start slotting ships into proper groups. Match the stats and then balance for manufacturers etc. it’s bit a crapshoot of random numbers for each new ship which is why there’s no consistent balance and post sale nerfs.
The caller. Talking about the org lvl system events. I feal again that eve is something to look at. The incursions specifically, They where group events. Where randoms worked together to compleate a massive fight But. 1 person was the fleet manager. And they dictated what ships they want in there fleet and you listened to them or you where not alowed back in ect, Sc looks like they are building that kinda thing into the ships to command a group and there will be players that will be good at it, and other will group up with them routeently, They just need the social tools to facilitate grouping up.
When it comes to balancing and blueprints. Like if you made a gladius with 500 super rare perfect gold what ever that gave you a 50% speed increase but if you used a different material or combination of materials it might have only been 20% they can reduce the effectiviness of that gold on that specific bluprint and it could retroactively reduce the stats of any gladius made with that bluprint using that specific resource. So it wouldnt inpact other gladius made with that bluprint but only ones made with that specific resource or tier of resource based on how much of that resource was used in the crafting. And it wont impact other bluprints either. Also i think Saltemike is looking at fighter vs turrets in a bit too linear. Turrets can be anti fighter, but fighters can also be anti turret. The fighters wont be sitting still, they wont be sitting there trying to 1v1 the turret. They will try to hit and run, the fighters with fly in shoot and try to evade if they get hit too much boost away, with multiple fighters hitting multiple points or focusing on specific turrets together. It might come down to the size of the fighters guns vs the size of the turret and the turrets armor. Like you might not take a fighter to try and knock out size6 and up turrets if their armor is too thick for size3-4 gun, you might use an Ares inferno instead of a hornet, but multiple hornets can deal with smaller turrets using proper hit and run and combinations of wingmen and such. Assuming something took down the shields for you. The bounties can be for players tho which is pvp. If you mean for a war style system a faction can put a bounty on players allied with other factions. So a pirate org does a pay out for every player you kill allied with bountyhunter guild And there could be tiered daily or weekly items rewards from those npc guilds that reward those pvp players for the number of kills of the opposing guild. But just because someone says do a bounty doesn't mean an npc pve bounty it can be fully pvp oriented
Redeemer wasn't nerfed either. It was rebalanced and not a marketing nerf. It just made it more distinct for its role of being a fast agile gunship/drop ship for rapid troop deployment. It will be better against smaller fighters and able to insert troops easier being more nimble. And the paladin is just a brute full damage and defense no troop deployment. Very different roles with slight overlap being "gunships"
I don't see how people would spend money on any ship that cares about balance after what they did to the Redeemer. They moved it out of the way of the new shiny gunship without any sort of explanation of a reason for you to want to keep the Redeemer, and that destroys all trust that they won't fuck over the current new ship for the next new ship after it.
In relation to the solo pvp, why not give them a sub guild on the pirate side that pays per kill or per group of kills, payment not restricted to only uec. To spice it up there could be challenges like get 100 kills with this weapon or in this system etc etc you could even dress it up in lore as work for some anti political or anti human death cult that glories in wanton destruction and they need you to meet certain targets for rewards. You could even give it rankings and maybe the top 100 death dealers get to be the council of death or something less gaudy, maybe even have that council generate contracts for big time orgleaders that would be really difficult to get at so you have to infiltrate or whatever but there's a shitload of options if a dill like me can cook this up in 3 minutes on the toilet.
if your ship tier 5, gets destroyed , will insurance warranty be returned to you, as you had it, or will it be tier 1, and have to rebuild it back to how you had it? it makes sense that it will be default again if its completely destroyed,
It depends on the warranty you have purchased in game. 3 tiers, 3rd tier being the best where you’ll get everything back inside the ship, including your stored gear. 1st tier being just the default items. 2nd tier you get your custom components back with the claim but not what you had stored in the ship.
They have stated a bunch of times recently they are moving away from TTK and moving into TTD ( time to disable ) which is going to be the new norm they want people to go back fix their busted wrecks and help the repair / fueling ships have roles. Hope this helps
For the PVP thing: My thought has always been that each ship should drop a "black box" that box contains all the games needed information to create a replica of that destroyed / disabled ship and its pilots reputation. The PVP'er should be able to collect that black box and turn it in to an NPC for a bounty. Certain black boxes will be worth more to certain NPCs based on the killed players reputation. That black box can then be sold from the NPCs to salvagers and non PVP'ers to create a mission and beacon for them to go and salvage. or the PVP'er can exchange that black box with another player.
To demand from a solo pvper that in order to earn money you might have to do some pve or none killing player periods is absolutely to be expected. That would the norm in almost any mmo, eve being a exception.
Mike is honestly the smartest dumb person hahaha if its in the game it can be retroactively nerfed, whatever you have done to something and however you did it, they can change. They already nerf ships that are in the game that you have paid for. Say you used metals to get a certain stat, well you change the stats on the metal, say it was a component, you change the stats for the component, if its a combination of things then you can nerf the comination, when x is applied to y then z and so on, the fact that its in the verse already means nothing at all. Whatever you did, can be undone.
It doesn't matter how they deliver the information - there is always a problem with it according to Mike. I mean come on man. Do you want it raw or not?
Did a full disruptor load out on my super hornet, save the s4 Gat. Brought the shields on the Idris down, no problem. Super safe - max distance. Took far less time than when I gunned on a Polaris. Cpl ships with disruptor loadout, knock shields down. Chin gun on Polaris THEN kills PDCs, torpedoes away, dead Idris. Provided the brain-dead AI doesnt kill the Polaris with the Idris. Why arent all the NPCs on ground flying ships? Giving targets of opportunity? Why dont crusader and local police respond, any more?
Pvp that doesn't follow missions and just picks up fights with anybody is just a style of piracy, and CIG has been saying for years pirate ships are fighting ships with cargo space like the Cutlass and Corsair. If you want to make money looting people, you need cargo space or an ally with cargo space. This also makes it so that type of pvpers against which you can't really prepare, will use ships that are not the optimal fighters, meaning random people trying to live their day will have opportunities to escape.
ua-cam.com/video/9d2kUj9yf0g/v-deo.html My view of this point is that they don't need to neft a crafted item 'after' it is made. They could let wear and tear natrually attrition that item and only nerf the ability to make 'more' of it at that value. We keep our uber crafted item for its lifespan and they get their mid-long term balance and just accept they didn't balance it perfectly for 'existing' crafted items. That way everyone wins and nobody is punished after the fact.
Racing ships can be crafted without any weapon hardpoints, automatically giving them a base buff to speed. Racing ships shouldn't have guns by default, it makes it impossible for them to balance them correctly
Can't Solo PvPers just mark the location of the "salvage" and sell that information to other looters or salvagers, while they stick to just doing the killing? Maybe it has to be sold on the black market? Obviously the 'info-broker' gameplay doesn't exist yet, but neither does a LOT of systems.
I don't really like complex tiers for ship hulls. Components are deeply embedded in the game and should increase in grades and varieties. I think the components can and should be how the ships are customized.
I agree that PVP needs to be lucrative, but I don't think the game needs to cater to them. There are checks and balances across the board. If you want to be a miner then you are mostly sacrificing your ability to PVP. If you want to be a salvager that is pretty much the same. If you want to fly fighters while bounty hunting you might get a bounty, but you still don't get the cargo. There are trade-offs to what you want to fly and what you want to do. If you're a PVP player and you can't compete in PvP with anything other than a fighter then maybe that is part of the sacrifice. Either get good with a ship that's capable of hauling cargo, or maybe we need PVP battles going on that you can join or something along those lines. I don't think that if you are engaging in PvP in small ships it automatically means they need to change the way the game plays to suit you. You can be a PVP player and actively pirate. That will earn you a lot of money and then you can go PvP in small ship combat. Yes everyone should be able to earn money but not everyone should be able to do everything just because they want to do it. How balanced is it if the PVP player gets to be in the smallest fastest ship in the game and kill anyone they want while still being able to take anything they want? I flying fighters, but if I take on a bounty in one and I come across a really great cargo load... Too bad for me. Setting a marker and getting a cargo ship would be my option too. Just saying.
People mooving valuables trough pyro and people wanting to get it, what you're describing is just piracy. And it's been said for years that pirate ships are ships with firepower AND cargo space. Unlike EVE you won't do piracy in a fighter. You'll do it in an Avenger, a Cutlass, a Corsair... I really don't see what's wrong with that and what we're missing that EVE has... Most fighters in SC are carrier based / short ranged anyway, they're not ment for roaming around looking for trouble, they are ment to be used when you know where trouble is.
Pure cope the Corsair was a fan favorite and enjoyed by a huge amount of people it wasn't the best at anything but it was cool and had enough dakka dakka that it was a solid pick vs connie or other similar ships. You're lying to yourself if you think the nerf was for any other reason than to drive IAE sales and get people that were happy with the Corsair back into the store looking for a new ship to fill that role.
Mike lost the plot when it came to the rebalancing of already existing stuff. How can he not understand how videogame balance works? Its all just numbers, those can be changed whenever cig wants to. Edit Solo pvp in an MMO! should not be our concern, they chose to play this game solo, they will have to deal with the reality that it wont pay well or wonz pay off at all other than a longer e-peen. Frick them.
"solo pvpers just wanna kill people" SCREAMS I don't want to get a job I just wanna murder. Maybe they SHOULDN'T MAKE MONEY MIKE! if you're a murder hobo, You need to embrace the hobo part. this is such a non fucking issue.
Could just put small 1x1 or 1x2 cargi grid under the wings or fuselage of smaller fighters with no cargo bay. They can carry a couple thigs but it gets affected. Y weight im alance and the items are exposed to being shot off the grid.
Croncy states that this is his favorite IAE. This in my view was the most boring IAE they have ever had unfortunately. Erad is at least making cool Jax videos :).
guys getting upset over transportation of passengers in the game. just fly to and from another station and imagine the NPCs.. thats exactly what that gameplay is going to be anyway. what are you going to do, stand there and watch all those passengers board your ship everytime you take a mission? go and server drinks to them in quantum? go and spend some time trading or transportation gameplay it gets boring FAST. when others complain about everything in this game being combat oriented. congratulations combat is exciting and will keep people playing. zigzagging between the same two places gets mind numbing in no time. it becomes a grind which will lead to nobody wanting to play.
Please stop talking about Eve sooo much. I don't want the game to be "Eve blended with Ultima-Online". Any reactions to the layoffs? I don't think it's a huge deal honestly.
@@fffx2 I mean it's 12 people who were laid off. It most likely was a pretty standard internal restructure of personnel. It's funny the games media presents it as if CIG just shuttered their doors, which would make the refund trolls sooo happy. Honestly, without knowing their normal attrition rate, we really can't speculate how bad things are yet.
They were Q&A people, not really that bad since we have an entire community that pays to be q&a and brags about it. Also q&a seems pointless anyway, we know the bugs, it’s just the devs that are incapable og solving them.
Mike totally discounted or ignored the idea of data selling meaning after you've made a wreck through pvp you then have valuable info to sell to others.
I dont understand the absolute need to have inherent value in killing anyone. Thats rewarding griefing. Pvp should be a means to an end, its not like there will ever not be a bounty/hit contract if you really have nothing else to do. Bounties, pirating, org warfare, why would you need more than that?
As for the Save Stanton Phase 4... Apparently you have to do 6, but that six has to include BOTH versions of your chosen faction. At least that is what I can confirm got the completion for me. One of the missions was tougher to do because of the broken cargo elevators, so I had ignored it. Once I did the 2nd one, I instantly got the completion rewards.
For Phase 4 I did 6 of the same exact mission (2-4 SCU of Hydrogen, Helium, Bexalite) for Frontier Fighters, one right after another and got the reward for completing Save Stanton. I loaded up 25 SCU of each commodity, flew to Pyro Jumpgate station, deposited cargo into station warehouse, opened mobiglass and accepted the mission, deposited the required commodities, mission complete, wait for the next same mission to pop up a couple minutes later, accept and repeat. Others have done the same. I think you must have run into a bug or server delay.
All small ships should have at the very least, 1/4 to 1/2 scu storage for the small lockers. Corsair definitely needed a nerf, but they should have moved the wing guns to the fuselage and made them turrets for the copilot, leaving the 4 S5's for the pilot. That way it also gains the benefit of keeping guns if the wings come off
Every ship has at least a storage locker. EVERY SHIP. Big and small. You check fighters and they have storage within the interaction wheel of the ship when you try to enter it. That update came like two years ago. If you don't have enough space, fly something else.
I agree with the balancing nightmare. This is not LoL or WoW where combat is constrained to "2D" with a few skills. You can balance that by tunning things up and down. How do you tune that interceptor tier 5 with the highest speed? Once you have the highest speed, noooone can hit you, no matter the skill. I don't think that's gonna work well.
Mike is consistently the worst part of this podcast. Watching Croncy on other podcasts where he can actually express his opinions without some dweeb constantly interrupting him and trying to constantly correct him is so much better..
I am confused, Mike says CIG needs to provide more info but complains all the time abouit everything CIG says. Lot do this and I do not know why CIG says anything!
I agree that PVP needs to be lucrative, but I don't think the game needs to cater to them. There are checks and balances across the board. If you want to be a miner then you are mostly sacrificing your ability to PVP. If you want to be a salvager that is pretty much the same. If you want to fly fighters while bounty hunting you might get a bounty, but you still don't get the cargo. There are trade-offs to what you want to fly and what you want to do. If you're a PVP player and you can't compete in PvP with anything other than a fighter then maybe that is part of the sacrifice. Either get good with a ship that's capable of hauling cargo, or maybe we need PVP battles going on that you can join or something along those lines. I don't think that if you are engaging in PvP in small ships it automatically means they need to change the way the game plays to suit you. You can be a PVP player and actively pirate. That will earn you a lot of money and then you can go PvP in small ship combat. Yes everyone should be able to earn money but not everyone should be able to do everything just because they want to do it. How balanced is it if the PVP player gets to be in the smallest fastest ship in the game and kill anyone they want while still being able to take anything they want? I flying fighters, but if I take on a bounty in one and I come across a really great cargo load... Too bad for me. Setting a marker and getting a cargo ship would be my option too if i was running solo.
So frustrating watching Mike struggle to understand Croncy's point about nerfs. CIG doesn't have to think about every crafting permutation. All they have to decide is what the MAXIMUM STATS are for every ship at T5. If people realize they can craft a Gladius that goes 600 m/s and that's too fast, they just compress those values until they achieve the balance that they want. As for ships that are ALREADY MADE they automatically are rebalanced according to the new stat bands. It's that simple. Mike acting like once you craft something CIG can't change it's stats is missing the forest for the trees.
[ TL;DR: The crucial part to understand is that the game would never store the final result of the crafting process, only the "ingredients" that go into the calculation. It would not destroy the source data. ]
He's also missing the trees for the trees. Here's the math: _BASELINE_ ship stats + _CRAFTING_ improvement scalar tier 1 through 5 * Your crafting _RESULT MULTIPLIER_ 1 through 5 = _TOTAL_ ship stats. This gets recalculated whenever they feel is appropriate. Probably not every frame, but literally whenever they need it.
Written in long form, equivalent to the above: Baseline ship stats + Crafting improvement scalar tier 1 * Your crafting result multiplier 1 + Crafting improvement scalar tier 2 * Your crafting result multiplier 2 + Crafting improvement scalar tier 3 * Your crafting result multiplier 3 + Crafting improvement scalar tier 4 * Your crafting result multiplier 4 + Crafting improvement scalar tier 5 * Your crafting result multiplier 5 = Final ship stats.
_BASELINE_ and _CRAFTING_ numbers can be changed with extreme ease just like any other stat in the game. If for some reason they need to change your specific _RESULT MULTIPLIER_ and it is not fully deterministic based on the materials logged that were put into the ship kept on record, they can easily do that with a script by simply iterating through every crafted ship in the game and applying a transform function like a simple multiplication or a fancy curve. They run scripts on all our accounts many times each year for all the website hangar stuff already, and this is no different.
They can also add the transform function directly to the game code, processing _RESULT MULTIPLIER_ through _TRANSFORM FUNCTION_ before multiplying it with _CRAFTING_ then adding that to _BASELINE._
There are a billion different ways to set up and work basic algebra problems like this. So, stay in school, kids.
He really just had to bring up Elites system and that would've been that. But in reality crafting equation will probably calculate out to (base stat) x (fractional modifier)=crafted item stats. And the modifier is determined by a couple of dice rolls. Change where the dice correlate to the modifier and you change the range, value, and you can even factor in constants like personal skills into the equation at any point. If the ships stats is always understood by the code as the equation then you just change the equation and it changes all possible permeatations, even though the permeatations are probably going to be stratified by difficulty and resources vs personal skill and resource quality.
💯
You hit the nail on the head! I’m like cussing out loud at his ignorance lmao
Omg mike has a reinforced skull for not taking in new info that might alter his opinion.
If you want to be a murder hobo, you take your Arrow and recognize that hobo's aren't exactly known for having hordes of wealth. If you want to have hordes of wealth, maybe you play as a pirate and take a ship that can hold some loot in its hold. SC should not be promoting random PVP, but rather PVP that is motivated by reasonable necessities - territory control, piracy, whatever. I see the whole "death of a spaceman" ideal as a tool to deter griefing and toxic PVP.
Absolutely. This is why the factions and guilds are important. If you can be linked to a guild or group then the PvP makes sense with lore. Not just random PvP. That is for arena commander.
Only way that works is with a marker probe. The probe would set a shutdown shield around salvage so no other ship could salvage it. Probe has code only buyer has access to so no one could salvage area but buyer. This already sounds like too much work to type, let alone CIG program into existence. And I'm only half way thru. So no that's a terrible idea. Selling markers is useless if the sale 109% depends on a trust system within player base.
@@MurkMercy Dude no one even mentioned markers... or salvage for that matter. what are you on about?
Murder hobos will never be happy, and CIG shouldn't base any of their intentions on what murder hobos want in the game. Their opinion means nothing to the end result of what this game is meant to become.
On the note of solo PVP'ing, if they ever let us set custom markers. Once you kill someone you could sell the location to someone in a hauler or someone who wants to salvage. Would be super cool if you could scan the wreckage and tie that data to the location information you were selling so people could know what they were buying and would allow you to sell better wreckage for higher prices.
Such a cool idea.
Thats what I was thinking as he was talking about it. I think that also ties into the player rep you earn that they were talking about in cit con. Hey I have this location, I'm a trusted person so you can trust that this place has a ship to be salvaged and isn't just a trap.
Yup, my dream for data running 🤞
51:11 The solution to the moneymaking with light fighters for solo players might be in data, they might not be able to salvage anything but it will still be there for others, if we can mark the location and sell it to others that can do this you solve the problem and create new gameplay at the same time.
Ships like the Arrow and Gladius are hyper specialized for dogfighting. If you want to go off dogfighting and then looting the wreckage, you bring an Avenger or 325a or Hornet w/ cargo box, and then rely on being the better pilot to bridge the gap in your ships raw combat ability. Additionally, IRL fighters can carry storage pods on their external hardpoints for use when rebasing. An arrow might sacrifice some of its missiles for a little bit of storage space for those 1 or 2 size 1 components.
Solo pvp players should just accept that whatever ship they use is what they are able to pull loot to. You can find a looting buddy with another ship but breaking physics to fit items you want into a small fighter is dumb. If I choose to run cargo im choosing to be slaughtered by fighters in the chance of pvp and I have to accept it. Go back get a hauler to grab the loot and risk the chance you might run into a scavenger or the owner and have to deal with it.
They are still iterating on armor and turrets once manned turrets can beam light fighters consistently with good time on target its ggbyebyelightfightermeta.
That isn't really the scenario they were talking about tho, it was more a Gladius fights a Talon or other size 1 ship they would like to be able to put a component in the backpack.
It is totally reasonable, most size 1 parts are not much bigger than a 6 pack of beers you should easily be able to put one in your pack and one in the ship storage
@SalteMike - If you're a solo PVP'r you can soft death a ship, then if you could sell that location to people who salvage as a beacon/mission. 50k UEC for a corsair salvage mission in game currently... so .. uh yeah that's lots of cash pretty damn fast.
44:00 min talking about having an arrow fly like another ship like a gladius or Buc is fundamentally flawed, I know on the presentation they said it will be somewhat possible.
What the Devs seem to not value as much is the cross section of the ships, if an Arrow had similar performance stats to a gladius it would be completely dominant.
Smaller targets are harder to hit especially at range, it effectively gives the arrow an accuracy bonus/hp buff.
You cannot have one ship perform like another as whatever ship is physically smaller will be the meta choice
Mike - your ship stats, and how those stats were achieved, are all just data points in a database. At any point they can say "Any Gladius wich has a Tier 5 top speed bonus gets nerfed by 5%". So if a Tier 5 bonus is anywhere from +70-80%, they can rebalance it to be +65-75%, and with it any existing Tier 5 crafted Gladius engine bonuses would drop by 5%. For some reason you're assuming that once your ship is crafted, they can't touch it, and that it's stats are permanent. That's the flaw in your thought process.
the best loot for a light fighter could be something like a black box that gives information about the components for the ship you took out, so you can sell the blueprints or even have like a reverse engineering aspect to it or a hacking aspect or something.
The misunderstanding around the 35:00 mark might been avoided if you all spent a bit more time recapping/explaining how you interpreted what CIG was saying in the IAE episodes. I feel like both of you interpreted the information provided in different ways, but because you didn't spend time explaining what you thought they said things would work, you didn't have the opportunity to figure out maybe a core difference in how you interpreted what they were saying or how these systems would work.
48:25 the answer is very simple you use a larger ship that is still capable in dog fights like a Spirit and you now have a cargo hold to store what you loot.
I would of never thought of a spirit as a dogfighter. Cutless or Connie sure ish, am I missing something?
CIG did say they are moving into bigger drake ships and MISC, high probability that odyssey will be worked on soon based on starlancer assets.
I think it's hilarious that people got frustrated when Mike wasn't understanding The crafting situation. This shit happens all the time with people especially with friends. If anything I felt the frustration of both of them. It's an amusing reflection of why we shouldn't assume something is obvious when other people see it a different way or are thinking down a different path.
Solo PvPers can use fighting ships with interiors. Valkyrie, Defender, and larger ships that are still soloable or usable with blades/AI crew.
Did you see how much add ons cost on the website? How much in real money will a blade or NPC crew mate cost?
Exactly.
@@MurkMercyto be fair, the cutlass is pretty competent without its crew. The vanguard even more so. The problems are with ships like the hawk or gladius that are marketed towards the pvp crowd and don't have that kind of interior (hawk does have external storage but it's kinda weird what you can get in there and not.)
@@MurkMercy buy them in game. I could care less if people can't buy in-game things with real money.
1:58:30 Reminding people of the terms they agreed to when they pledged to a game in development isn't telling them how to feel. It's reminding them of the terms they agreed to. It's reminding them of the terms they agreed to then they pledged to a game in development.
Salt is the guy who argues for argument sake and doesn't ever want to admit being wrong.
I'll say it again, for the millionth time. ROCK PAPER SCISSORS IS NOT BALANCE. It's circular imbalance. It's a game designer's crutch in order not to have to balance anything.
I would love to see a direct skill contest between fighters and turrets as if they were 2 fighters locked in PvP.
💯 spot on. Rock paper scissors is the dumbest crutch of game developers that never goes away.
How could it ever be the same as two fighters when the turret gunners doesn't have to fly?
@@MrClassytangerine That's literally why balance exists as a concept.
@@Mindbulletz lol what?? It's an obstacle of balance not why it exists. Try to think out a response instead of spewing a meaningless phrase
@@MrClassytangerine Balance exists to bring two different opposing forces into rough parity, so that what matters is player skill. This was implied by everything I have said up until this point. I apologize for not spelling it out letter by letter. Feel free to let me know if you still do not understand.
Easy answer is looting mobiglas off of people's wrists as a trophy and potentially either hacking them to "steal money" from the player you killed. either actually stealing money (up to a certain cap) or artificially "stealing" it by giving the thief a monetary reward but not actually taking it from the other player.
Lore wise, the thief gets the money but the space FDIC insured the victim from actually losing any.
Regarding solo PvP ers wanting to loot just bring an escort, I mean hauler.😂
It's funny how people can't see the light here. The solution to both sides of the coin remain the same. Just reversed.
Sometimes when we do ert's we bring a hauler and salvage crew. We create the wrecks, haulers pick the good stuff out abd salvage munches the wrecks. Its so fun.
@@MrSolLeks yeah we sorta do the same. Tho at most it's only 3 of us. We need to either join a bigger group or get more people.
@@brianchristopher8843 nice, last one that i ran as an org op we had 45 people come play though bout an 8 hour strech. Imo its almost manditory to join an org, get a decent sized group and go out to play, far better than solo by miles imo.
Im physically in pain after listening to mike struggle with the concept of nerfs
50:00 what kind of dumb discussion is this? If you want to be a murder hobo, who just wants to kill and nothing else, there shouldn't be much money to be made. And thats it. If you want to earn money fighting people, than pirate or fight in an org or do bounties. Like wtf
@46:24 it's so simple, YOU CALL FOR A hauler, like C2 or whatever... star citizen is NOT EVE it doesn't have to looke the same way. Another example if they introduce custom quantum beacons you can mark your loot - and go back for bigger ship ... you may be quicker than your pray with friends.
My POV on your troubles with speeds:
- they should implement "life like" algorithms - and it's not a space science!
You take into account:
1) ship weight
2) thrusters thrust (power)
3) you may take into account your powerplant - as an option
and you calculate maximum speed based upon the variables above.
IF you are able craft tier 5 subcomponents like:
- hull - that weights less (better - more rare - materials)
- thrusters with +X% of thrust (better - more durable - materials)
the maximum speed will be calculate-able. A ship full of cargo would be an easier pray LIKE IT SHOULD BE!
I can't understand how after 12 years of development there is no such simple physics!
@48:22 a solo PVPer HAS to pick the right ship for the job - that's all, or bring othere ppl, there's no other way - and it doesn't have to be!
Easy solution for a single seater PvPer's loot: make AI Blades chips cost millions of credits
They showed fast travel during Squadron 42 playthrough. When they flew the retailiators into battle
48:00 If you could just put a pin so you can "sell" this position or go back later and pick it up, that would help.
it's nice not all planes have cargo..
Today you can't find your way back to the ship, not even your own if you get out of it and are more than 15-20 km from it..
325a has a 4 scu cargo hold you can use for looting up to size 2 components I think. Not long or wide enough for size 3 weapons at least. Certainly not meta since it's large and kind of fragile but it's fast and armed well. Same with Titan which actually has a larger hold but just handles worse in atmo.
On balance they have been struggling to get a cohesive system in over 5 years with 20 ships really (the most popular one flown) and a handful of components.
Now they are saying they will be able to achieve balance with 10,000 more moving parts from unique hull crafting, component and weapon crafting.
I have zero faith in them to be able to achieve this, they have shown time and again they are toddlers learning to walk and they want to do a 5km run...there is no bloody chance they get it right
Solo PVP rewards (death of a space man) could be that you steal the dead players "life source" that holds that players skills they have learned. You would be able to sell it or be able to use it to learn there skills. Maybe you would have to take it to a science facility where they would inplant the memories to learn the skills. If you leave it the player that died could retrieve it.
Just a thought. Probably a stupid one.
On the crafting Tier V gear and whats OP and balancing- the issue is if CIG makes it harder to craft Tier V gear it means you're snowballing power to the biggest most powerful orgs. Its common to see this in videogames and its often an oversight. Its an exponential power issue- if they've all got Tier V gear that wins the most, it gives them more power to control resources to make more Tier V gear.
Typically you'd want to invert this power balance. The more power an org gets the harder it needs to be to maintain. In FPS games they balance power like that because you get pushed closer and closer to the enemy spawn the better you're doing making the enemy come back at you faster and faster. In MMO terms this balance would be some sort of Org tax % that gets more difficult the more stratified they get into the game.
But this is just theory crafting in SC yet again which means nothing.
For solo PvP: Idea. What if you can steal money from the killed player by hacking his mobyglass? It could be a certain percentage amount or even better: you can take everything from the dead player. How do you prevent being completely robbed by a death? By being able to decide how much money you have with you and how much you leave in the bank. How do you prevent players from leaving all their money in the bank? By, for example, having merchants who only take "cash" that the player has on his mobi jar and not in the bank AND by, for example, paying a fee to the bank as a percentage of what you have stored in the bank.
Hellhawk at the 1hour 30 mins mark, this guy knows whats up. Asking the real questions.
Agreed. CIG are pathologically adverse to just using the damn power triangle. They are tying themselves in knots trying to avoid saying the previous model needed tweets instead of a rewrite.
Now they are throwing anything out there to try salvage the dev time spent already.
24:21 what would stop soneone, or a bunch of people, kamikaze-ing using quantum boost into a capital ship or space station with their Razors, Furies, etc., doing massive damage in the process? Assuming physics accounts for velocity in damage calculation.
Quantum Boost still warps space so you should not collide with things. At least small things.
death of a spaceman implications, shields may absorb the damage but also those ships should be made of brittle materials that might not actually do any damage to an armoured ship
I've been saying that NPC transport gameplay isn't going to be in 1.0, because NPC crew won't be in 1.0. Both require nav mesh generation on player ships, and one would assume bespoke behavior implemented for both crew and passengers
Good point but NPC crew would need a lot more code to make them both fair and not lobotomised, for instance running through rooms on fire, running past enemies etc while also not being incredibly smart like discovering a fuse is out on the other side of the ship just by 6th sense, that said both need actual stable servers to work
@the_steamtrain1642 yuppers. All true. But that navigation meshing generation is definitely the first blocker for any of it
Also as far as the pricing is concerned with the paladin maybe its cheaper than the redeemer right now because its a concept sale and its flyable raised price would be equal or just above redeemer price so maybe there is a 10$ ccu to paladin when its flight ready
PVPers gonna have to do some grinding to support their habit.
Instantanced fleet battles for solo PvP with a commission or loot delivered to your cargo/hanger could be a possibility for them to make money... Coming soon ™️ 51:27
I think with the crafting of ships, it might be like a skill tree when tiering up. You can't max every stat. You could max one stat and the others would be poor. For example, you put all your research into engines for T5, but your shield and weapons will not get any better than max T4.
i think you have crafting completely confused on how they started it works. you dont craft blue prints you unlock blueprints and its unlocked permanently on your account, the bonuses comes from the materials you use and the quality of the material
I melted my Redeemer to get 330 credits and pledged for Paladin which net me a bunch of "free" store credits for now. I imagine many others have done the same, there is no reason not to unless you believe they will rework the redeemer in the near future increasing it's cost at the same time. I really hope the 600i rework comes soon, it has been in the works for over a year now and it honestly couldn't come any sooner.
First thing for large scale battle would be Earth Vs Terra war with the Civilian Military which will divide Organisations up into two groups to run a econmony and to wage war. With Blue prints have a Maximum amount for the blue Print. So example You Bangel Carrier Blue Print is only 1 Bangel Carrier you can build. Where your armor blue print you may be able to build 150 Armours before needing or earning another blueprint I think that way it limits your stock to take over the Market. Now I have question for Salty will you sell your Tier 5 Items to everybody or keep them for your Organisation to use for their advantage?
Not sure I agree its damage was the sole, or even the main, reason for the Corsair's popularity (though it helped, of course). Just looking at the state of the other ships in its size category (Connies, 400i, errr...?) it's not really hard to see why the Corsair was so popular...
Zeus probably stole some of its thunder, despite being smaller (but also needing less crew).
It’s true they need to start slotting ships into proper groups. Match the stats and then balance for manufacturers etc. it’s bit a crapshoot of random numbers for each new ship which is why there’s no consistent balance and post sale nerfs.
The problem will be power creep due to need to sell mote ships. (Paladin vs redeemer).
The caller. Talking about the org lvl system events. I feal again that eve is something to look at. The incursions specifically, They where group events. Where randoms worked together to compleate a massive fight But. 1 person was the fleet manager. And they dictated what ships they want in there fleet and you listened to them or you where not alowed back in ect, Sc looks like they are building that kinda thing into the ships to command a group and there will be players that will be good at it, and other will group up with them routeently, They just need the social tools to facilitate grouping up.
Every shop should have boot space for parts gear and loot.
When it comes to balancing and blueprints. Like if you made a gladius with 500 super rare perfect gold what ever that gave you a 50% speed increase but if you used a different material or combination of materials it might have only been 20% they can reduce the effectiviness of that gold on that specific bluprint and it could retroactively reduce the stats of any gladius made with that bluprint using that specific resource. So it wouldnt inpact other gladius made with that bluprint but only ones made with that specific resource or tier of resource based on how much of that resource was used in the crafting. And it wont impact other bluprints either.
Also i think Saltemike is looking at fighter vs turrets in a bit too linear. Turrets can be anti fighter, but fighters can also be anti turret. The fighters wont be sitting still, they wont be sitting there trying to 1v1 the turret. They will try to hit and run, the fighters with fly in shoot and try to evade if they get hit too much boost away, with multiple fighters hitting multiple points or focusing on specific turrets together.
It might come down to the size of the fighters guns vs the size of the turret and the turrets armor. Like you might not take a fighter to try and knock out size6 and up turrets if their armor is too thick for size3-4 gun, you might use an Ares inferno instead of a hornet, but multiple hornets can deal with smaller turrets using proper hit and run and combinations of wingmen and such.
Assuming something took down the shields for you.
The bounties can be for players tho which is pvp.
If you mean for a war style system a faction can put a bounty on players allied with other factions. So a pirate org does a pay out for every player you kill allied with bountyhunter guild
And there could be tiered daily or weekly items rewards from those npc guilds that reward those pvp players for the number of kills of the opposing guild.
But just because someone says do a bounty doesn't mean an npc pve bounty it can be fully pvp oriented
Redeemer wasn't nerfed either. It was rebalanced and not a marketing nerf. It just made it more distinct for its role of being a fast agile gunship/drop ship for rapid troop deployment.
It will be better against smaller fighters and able to insert troops easier being more nimble.
And the paladin is just a brute full damage and defense no troop deployment.
Very different roles with slight overlap being "gunships"
With crafting and tiers, there is no balancing each tier is supposed to be better than the previous. Effort/reward/end-game bonuses.
I don't see how people would spend money on any ship that cares about balance after what they did to the Redeemer. They moved it out of the way of the new shiny gunship without any sort of explanation of a reason for you to want to keep the Redeemer, and that destroys all trust that they won't fuck over the current new ship for the next new ship after it.
Resume @1:54:00
I could NOT find this while it was LIVE
Boarding action on the idris sounds way more fun
Spot on. No argument here. All ships should be out within a year.
I laughed when they mentioned the Ion/Inferno as the fighters to use against capital turrets
In relation to the solo pvp, why not give them a sub guild on the pirate side that pays per kill or per group of kills, payment not restricted to only uec. To spice it up there could be challenges like get 100 kills with this weapon or in this system etc etc you could even dress it up in lore as work for some anti political or anti human death cult that glories in wanton destruction and they need you to meet certain targets for rewards. You could even give it rankings and maybe the top 100 death dealers get to be the council of death or something less gaudy, maybe even have that council generate contracts for big time orgleaders that would be really difficult to get at so you have to infiltrate or whatever but there's a shitload of options if a dill like me can cook this up in 3 minutes on the toilet.
if your ship tier 5, gets destroyed , will insurance warranty be returned to you, as you had it, or will it be tier 1, and have to rebuild it back to how you had it? it makes sense that it will be default again if its completely destroyed,
I believe that's still not 100% clear, but it's been implied that it will be just the base tier 1 that gets replaced.
It depends on the warranty you have purchased in game. 3 tiers, 3rd tier being the best where you’ll get everything back inside the ship, including your stored gear. 1st tier being just the default items. 2nd tier you get your custom components back with the claim but not what you had stored in the ship.
@mcaddc the higher tiers of insurance has only stated covering components and decorations, but nothing about upgraded hulls as of yet though.
They have stated a bunch of times recently they are moving away from TTK and moving into TTD ( time to disable ) which is going to be the new norm they want people to go back fix their busted wrecks and help the repair / fueling ships have roles. Hope this helps
IMO if they're gonna give you back a hull it's gotta be T1 otherwise we don't have a game.
For the PVP thing: My thought has always been that each ship should drop a "black box" that box contains all the games needed information to create a replica of that destroyed / disabled ship and its pilots reputation. The PVP'er should be able to collect that black box and turn it in to an NPC for a bounty. Certain black boxes will be worth more to certain NPCs based on the killed players reputation. That black box can then be sold from the NPCs to salvagers and non PVP'ers to create a mission and beacon for them to go and salvage. or the PVP'er can exchange that black box with another player.
To demand from a solo pvper that in order to earn money you might have to do some pve or none killing player periods is absolutely to be expected. That would the norm in almost any mmo, eve being a exception.
Mike is honestly the smartest dumb person hahaha if its in the game it can be retroactively nerfed, whatever you have done to something and however you did it, they can change. They already nerf ships that are in the game that you have paid for. Say you used metals to get a certain stat, well you change the stats on the metal, say it was a component, you change the stats for the component, if its a combination of things then you can nerf the comination, when x is applied to y then z and so on, the fact that its in the verse already means nothing at all. Whatever you did, can be undone.
It doesn't matter how they deliver the information - there is always a problem with it according to Mike. I mean come on man. Do you want it raw or not?
Did a full disruptor load out on my super hornet, save the s4 Gat.
Brought the shields on the Idris down, no problem.
Super safe - max distance.
Took far less time than when I gunned on a Polaris.
Cpl ships with disruptor loadout, knock shields down. Chin gun on Polaris THEN kills PDCs, torpedoes away, dead Idris.
Provided the brain-dead AI doesnt kill the Polaris with the Idris.
Why arent all the NPCs on ground flying ships? Giving targets of opportunity? Why dont crusader and local police respond, any more?
I managed to complete phase 4 on my Alt (c8x & Syulen) by renting ships that would help from IAE. Without that I would have struggled
If you're a PVP murder hobo, pay a salvage ship to come collect the loot.
Pvp that doesn't follow missions and just picks up fights with anybody is just a style of piracy, and CIG has been saying for years pirate ships are fighting ships with cargo space like the Cutlass and Corsair.
If you want to make money looting people, you need cargo space or an ally with cargo space.
This also makes it so that type of pvpers against which you can't really prepare, will use ships that are not the optimal fighters, meaning random people trying to live their day will have opportunities to escape.
People will want to crash a Bangel Carrier into Microtech see if it goes super nova.
ua-cam.com/video/9d2kUj9yf0g/v-deo.html My view of this point is that they don't need to neft a crafted item 'after' it is made. They could let wear and tear natrually attrition that item and only nerf the ability to make 'more' of it at that value.
We keep our uber crafted item for its lifespan and they get their mid-long term balance and just accept they didn't balance it perfectly for 'existing' crafted items.
That way everyone wins and nobody is punished after the fact.
26:13 I wanna be a gun dealer
Piracy is just PVP with extra steps
Racing ships can be crafted without any weapon hardpoints, automatically giving them a base buff to speed.
Racing ships shouldn't have guns by default, it makes it impossible for them to balance them correctly
Can't Solo PvPers just mark the location of the "salvage" and sell that information to other looters or salvagers, while they stick to just doing the killing? Maybe it has to be sold on the black market? Obviously the 'info-broker' gameplay doesn't exist yet, but neither does a LOT of systems.
Croncy started as a blue screen xD
I don't really like complex tiers for ship hulls. Components are deeply embedded in the game and should increase in grades and varieties. I think the components can and should be how the ships are customized.
They don't know how to go on after Master Modes. That's why you didn't understand it.
I agree that PVP needs to be lucrative, but I don't think the game needs to cater to them. There are checks and balances across the board. If you want to be a miner then you are mostly sacrificing your ability to PVP. If you want to be a salvager that is pretty much the same. If you want to fly fighters while bounty hunting you might get a bounty, but you still don't get the cargo. There are trade-offs to what you want to fly and what you want to do. If you're a PVP player and you can't compete in PvP with anything other than a fighter then maybe that is part of the sacrifice. Either get good with a ship that's capable of hauling cargo, or maybe we need PVP battles going on that you can join or something along those lines. I don't think that if you are engaging in PvP in small ships it automatically means they need to change the way the game plays to suit you. You can be a PVP player and actively pirate. That will earn you a lot of money and then you can go PvP in small ship combat. Yes everyone should be able to earn money but not everyone should be able to do everything just because they want to do it. How balanced is it if the PVP player gets to be in the smallest fastest ship in the game and kill anyone they want while still being able to take anything they want? I flying fighters, but if I take on a bounty in one and I come across a really great cargo load... Too bad for me. Setting a marker and getting a cargo ship would be my option too. Just saying.
People mooving valuables trough pyro and people wanting to get it, what you're describing is just piracy.
And it's been said for years that pirate ships are ships with firepower AND cargo space.
Unlike EVE you won't do piracy in a fighter.
You'll do it in an Avenger, a Cutlass, a Corsair...
I really don't see what's wrong with that and what we're missing that EVE has...
Most fighters in SC are carrier based / short ranged anyway, they're not ment for roaming around looking for trouble, they are ment to be used when you know where trouble is.
What about the solo capital ship player lol
Pure cope the Corsair was a fan favorite and enjoyed by a huge amount of people it wasn't the best at anything but it was cool and had enough dakka dakka that it was a solid pick vs connie or other similar ships. You're lying to yourself if you think the nerf was for any other reason than to drive IAE sales and get people that were happy with the Corsair back into the store looking for a new ship to fill that role.
Mike lost the plot when it came to the rebalancing of already existing stuff. How can he not understand how videogame balance works? Its all just numbers, those can be changed whenever cig wants to.
Edit
Solo pvp in an MMO! should not be our concern, they chose to play this game solo, they will have to deal with the reality that it wont pay well or wonz pay off at all other than a longer e-peen. Frick them.
"solo pvpers just wanna kill people" SCREAMS I don't want to get a job I just wanna murder. Maybe they SHOULDN'T MAKE MONEY MIKE! if you're a murder hobo, You need to embrace the hobo part. this is such a non fucking issue.
Could just put small 1x1 or 1x2 cargi grid under the wings or fuselage of smaller fighters with no cargo bay. They can carry a couple thigs but it gets affected. Y weight im alance and the items are exposed to being shot off the grid.
A small fighter sacrifices cargo space and performance and weapons. They should not have space to loot.
Solo PvP with an alt, problem solved 😜
The whole looting thing is what makes salvage a thing. If they allow people to solo larger ships it will work.
Croncy states that this is his favorite IAE. This in my view was the most boring IAE they have ever had unfortunately. Erad is at least making cool Jax videos :).
guys getting upset over transportation of passengers in the game. just fly to and from another station and imagine the NPCs.. thats exactly what that gameplay is going to be anyway. what are you going to do, stand there and watch all those passengers board your ship everytime you take a mission? go and server drinks to them in quantum? go and spend some time trading or transportation gameplay it gets boring FAST.
when others complain about everything in this game being combat oriented. congratulations combat is exciting and will keep people playing. zigzagging between the same two places gets mind numbing in no time. it becomes a grind which will lead to nobody wanting to play.
The rapport between Croncy and you in this episode is quite good 😊
I enjoy when Mike and Croncy have differing opinions, but man, Mike interrupting and jumping down Croncy's throat this episode got on my nerves.
Please stop talking about Eve sooo much. I don't want the game to be "Eve blended with Ultima-Online".
Any reactions to the layoffs? I don't think it's a huge deal honestly.
Mike unfortunately doesn't talk about those sorts of things.
It does not bode well though
@@fffx2 I mean it's 12 people who were laid off. It most likely was a pretty standard internal restructure of personnel. It's funny the games media presents it as if CIG just shuttered their doors, which would make the refund trolls sooo happy. Honestly, without knowing their normal attrition rate, we really can't speculate how bad things are yet.
They were Q&A people, not really that bad since we have an entire community that pays to be q&a and brags about it.
Also q&a seems pointless anyway, we know the bugs, it’s just the devs that are incapable og solving them.
Mike totally discounted or ignored the idea of data selling meaning after you've made a wreck through pvp you then have valuable info to sell to others.
I dont understand the absolute need to have inherent value in killing anyone. Thats rewarding griefing. Pvp should be a means to an end, its not like there will ever not be a bounty/hit contract if you really have nothing else to do. Bounties, pirating, org warfare, why would you need more than that?
Pvpers sell information to slavagers
As for the Save Stanton Phase 4... Apparently you have to do 6, but that six has to include BOTH versions of your chosen faction. At least that is what I can confirm got the completion for me. One of the missions was tougher to do because of the broken cargo elevators, so I had ignored it. Once I did the 2nd one, I instantly got the completion rewards.
For Phase 4 I did 6 of the same exact mission (2-4 SCU of Hydrogen, Helium, Bexalite) for Frontier Fighters, one right after another and got the reward for completing Save Stanton. I loaded up 25 SCU of each commodity, flew to Pyro Jumpgate station, deposited cargo into station warehouse, opened mobiglass and accepted the mission, deposited the required commodities, mission complete, wait for the next same mission to pop up a couple minutes later, accept and repeat.
Others have done the same. I think you must have run into a bug or server delay.
@@realnerdethan did the exact same thing with another set of commodities
All small ships should have at the very least, 1/4 to 1/2 scu storage for the small lockers.
Corsair definitely needed a nerf, but they should have moved the wing guns to the fuselage and made them turrets for the copilot, leaving the 4 S5's for the pilot. That way it also gains the benefit of keeping guns if the wings come off
Every ship has at least a storage locker. EVERY SHIP. Big and small. You check fighters and they have storage within the interaction wheel of the ship when you try to enter it. That update came like two years ago. If you don't have enough space, fly something else.
I agree with the balancing nightmare. This is not LoL or WoW where combat is constrained to "2D" with a few skills. You can balance that by tunning things up and down.
How do you tune that interceptor tier 5 with the highest speed? Once you have the highest speed, noooone can hit you, no matter the skill. I don't think that's gonna work well.
Mike is consistently the worst part of this podcast. Watching Croncy on other podcasts where he can actually express his opinions without some dweeb constantly interrupting him and trying to constantly correct him is so much better..
I am confused, Mike says CIG needs to provide more info but complains all the time abouit everything CIG says. Lot do this and I do not know why CIG says anything!
@@ianwilson4286 I agree, these roadmap watchers and their continued noise are damaging the game.
I don't like the time limits. Feels very forced. Just cut it short when the topic is over.
I don't care if there is anything to gain from PvP, It is not my game style.
Not agree, dont trust it a kill =loot in figther is not necessary and to gamey. Dont want this game to become a mobile game. Want loot bring cargo.
I agree that PVP needs to be lucrative, but I don't think the game needs to cater to them. There are checks and balances across the board. If you want to be a miner then you are mostly sacrificing your ability to PVP. If you want to be a salvager that is pretty much the same. If you want to fly fighters while bounty hunting you might get a bounty, but you still don't get the cargo. There are trade-offs to what you want to fly and what you want to do. If you're a PVP player and you can't compete in PvP with anything other than a fighter then maybe that is part of the sacrifice. Either get good with a ship that's capable of hauling cargo, or maybe we need PVP battles going on that you can join or something along those lines. I don't think that if you are engaging in PvP in small ships it automatically means they need to change the way the game plays to suit you. You can be a PVP player and actively pirate. That will earn you a lot of money and then you can go PvP in small ship combat. Yes everyone should be able to earn money but not everyone should be able to do everything just because they want to do it. How balanced is it if the PVP player gets to be in the smallest fastest ship in the game and kill anyone they want while still being able to take anything they want? I flying fighters, but if I take on a bounty in one and I come across a really great cargo load... Too bad for me. Setting a marker and getting a cargo ship would be my option too if i was running solo.