The importance of a pre-purchase inspection - The Carmudgeon Show - Ep. 25
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- Опубліковано 24 сер 2024
- Unless you just don’t care about anything, it’s wise to have a pre-purchase inspection, or PPI, on any car you’re purchasing. And not just by a random friend who can kick the tires for you, but by a marque expert. That’s especially important because more important than noting overall condition is finding things that aren’t “correct.”
Using the incorrect hose clamp isn’t a problem. Nor is the wrong bolt here or there. But recognizing those items’ incorrectness means that a mechanic has needed to touch that area, and that he either didn’t know which proper parts to use, or didn’t care. Anytime you see something incorrect, it points to something that should be investigated further. Most of the time, it’s meaningless; occasionally it can be evidence of something disastrous.
Both Jason and Derek have experience with Alfa Romeos that had been cut in half - and only noticed the evidence of welding once the car was in the air. And both of them have bought cars unseen - from Derek’s Daimler Double-Six to Jason’s $300 Isuzu P’Up.
In this episode, they exchange war stories of buying cars with and without PPIs. And why sometimes it’s necessary to show up with a baseball bat. Hey, pretending you’re crazy is a perfectly valid negotiation tactic. If you’re from Brooklyn. And stupid.
The Carmudgeon Show is a comedic, information-filled conversation with Jason Cammisa and Derek Tam-Scott, two car enthusiasts who are curmudgeonly beyond their years. Proving you don’t have to be old to be grumpy, they spend each episode talking about what’s wrong with various parts of the automotive universe. Despite their best efforts to keep it negative, they usually wind up laughing, happy, and extolling their love for cars. Which just makes them angrier and more bitter.
Jason Cammisa is an automotive journalist, social-media figure, and TV host with over 250 million views on UA-cam alone. Jason’s deeply technical understanding, made possible by a lifelong obsession with cars, allows him to fully digest what’s going on within an automobile - and then put it into simple terms for others to understand. Also, a Master’s Degree in Law trained him to be impossible to argue with.
Derek Tam-Scott still tries. He’s a young automotive expert with old-man taste in cars, and a Master’s Degree in Civil Engineering - which means he knows how to be civil to Jason. Or at least he tries. With a decade and a half’s experience buying, selling, driving and brokering classic and exotic cars, he’s experienced the world’s most iconic cars. And hated most of them.
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I don’t recommend the whole baseball-bat scenario unless you’re as stupid as I am. Which, by the way, is a very high bar. That said, feel free to bring one along, so long as you’re willing to use it. And, more importantly, have it used on you. 😝
JasonCammisa Hey! How ya doing?
@@francoisg3500 I'm g-r-r-r-r-reaaaat!
you crazy man
absolute madlad
@@JasonCammisa Cool!!
From a german guy I know who works in automotive:
Here's a reminder that your average German manufacturer has a special SA code for press vehicles which unravels into:
-triple QC on the factory line
-individual full vehicle check prior to delivery
-full roadside test prior to delivery
-otherwise unobtainable noise canceling package
-special body adjustment including matched tolerance panels
-special engine balancing including matched internals
Depending on manufacturer, additionally:
-hand build engine
-hand build powertrain
-special powertrain balancing including matched components
-multi hour break in protocol on dyno for the entire powertrain
And that's just the stuff they do in the age of absolute legal strutiny.
Fascinating! Thanks for this.
I found my first dentist in LA because he had street parked his 300SL Gullwing outside his practice. It was there because his yellow 993 was in the shop and he didn't want to drive his original Holman Moody drag car to the office that day.
He used to vintage race it, has had the motor rebuilt multiple times, etc. If he hadn't retired I would still be going to him.
Imagine the Return on investment that Dentist god omg.
@@johnbacon4997 His dad bought it off a Mechanic's lein in the 1970s.....
@@jameswhitehead6758 Can you explain what that means? Sorry I'm only 22
@@johnbacon4997 If you have a mechanic do work on your car and don't pay your bills, the mechanic can put a lein on your car. You have a certain amount of time to pay off the bills or else the mechanic can auction your car to recoup their costs.
@@jameswhitehead6758 kinda like a pawn shop?
Best thing about Hyphen's place - the fire extinguisher BEHIND the liquor. Priorities!
Which kind of emergency would YOU rather have?
Do an episode on under engineered engines(northstar & lancia gamma) and well engineered engines
I had over 200k on my Northstar before selling it to a kid. Sadly got tapped out while parked in a neighborhood at 2 AM - some drunk mutilated the rear end.
41:42 yes! I knew jason's office chair was an 80's recaro.
All the glory is mine!!!
NO, all glory belongs to the Hypno Toad
@@JohnTallodi 😎
Relieving the boredom of this Lockdown, thanks all the way from London lads!
Years ago I bought a used Elise -sight unseen- based on the dealer’s reputation in LotusTalk. Seller described it as perfect and since he only deals in Lotus and the like I believed he knew what perfect meant. Wired the money and waited 5 days for it to arrived from Florida (Second mistake buying from Fl, now I know) I was young and the lesson was expensive but effective. NEVER AGAIN! It took a lot to get the car right, patches and wired fixes here and there. Misrepresented is too lite of a word. Your “fame is in your name” and I missed that wire was part of the dealer name.
Lol you are correct!
Within 49 seconds, I have learned about a Porsche powered VW van from 80s, I love this podcast.
I bought my ‘91 M5 in early February. It had a ppi done by a bmw indie shop in December, a few months before. They didn’t catch crap. So much stuff that I found just by doing my own inspection and by stuff that the owner told me. Leaking fuel lines? Not on the ppi. Warped rotors? Nope ppi said brakes were fine. Coolant leak at the lower rad hose? Nope. Tires from 2006? Nope, ppi said they were good and at ‘X’ tread depth. All of this stuff I found by looking over the car myself. I don’t think I could ever pay for my own ppi after this.
Coolest office chair!! mk2 gli 16v recaro. amazing!
The compression sounds you were making made me realize my first two cars had very little in the way of compression. A 2003 Mazda Protege that got demolished by a 1987 Mazda 323 when we raced going from 2000ft elevation to 4600ft and a 1997 Honda Prelude.
Oh Christ the baseball bat story had me fucking dying before work today! Thank you Jason
Great episode. Like listening to you two talk about whatever.
I've got two cars that show the two contrasting sides of this issue. The first is my 97 SL600. I used to work for the previous owner, and I worked for him for several years. I also had a key to the car in my pocket for probably 4 years before I actually bought it, just so I could take it out while he was on vacation or I wanted to use it on a weekend (with permission of course). I put thousands of miles on the car. I drove it basically every opportunity I had. I took it to car shows, I took it to college, I took it to dinner reservations. It was an absolute dream taking out this legendary sports car basically whenever I wanted and my only responsibilities were 1) don't crash it 2) don't get it impounded and lastly 3) always bring it home with a full tank of gas. The previous owner and I ended up going back and forth for weeks negotiating a purchase price. I told him to wait for me to graduate college, and I would hand him a check. On my 25th birthday, I went to the DMV and finalized the deal. I knew the car inside out and backwards, I paid to have some work done to it, and the previous owner also did work on it just before I purchased it. I knew very quickly that I wanted it, but I didn't know German vehicles then. In that regard, I probably shouldn't have bought it, but I do not regret a day of ownership in it (even when it's broken). It's crazy to think back now, I recently stumbled upon photos of the car the first time I saw it, 10 years ago. In October this year, it will be my 10th year of driving it.
To look at the flip side of this, I bought my 91 Mazda Miata with no test drive, no test start, and basically 5 minutes of looking under the car to see just how rusty it was. I'd never even driven a Miata before, but several days beforehand, I was having lunch with some friends and basically decided, I'm going to buy a Miata, and I basically bought the first Miata I found. For reference on this Miata, the Craiglist listing was 3 weeks old. Miata listings don't last 3 weeks, those things sell nearly immediately. The listing was $2000 for a car on a jackstand with an entire front corner suspension disassembled, no battery, and even with a battery, it wouldn't start. The odds were stacked against me from the beginning when I texted my friend and asked if he would help me trailer the car home and he actually said "what car is it?" Fast forward 2 weeks and the seller hands me a Massachusetts title with a name I recognize when I come to pick up the car and several parts with it. Later on I learn the Factory Five Racing banner across the windshield was put on there by FFR's R&D Director, because this is his old car. That was an interesting phone call up to Factory Five, considering I've followed them since before I was a teenager. It took me about 4 or 5 months to fix everything (after 30 minutes of google I just assumed that the car didn't start because the timing was off, and I bought it under the assumption that even I could fix that and have a working Miata), and 4 trips to 3 different DMVs before I had the correct paperwork to properly register the car. What a disaster. Yeah it's rusty, the tires were 11 years old when I started working on it, and I even found the original lug nuts and tire invoice in the glove box. I was told the car had be passed between between 4 and 10 people between Maine, New York, Pennsylvania and New Jersey, none of whom looked through all the paperwork with the car and got all of the ducks in a row enough to get license plates for it. If I knew that's what it was going to take beforehand, I probably wouldn't have purchased it, but the car has an interesting story behind it.
At the end of it, I absolutely agree, a PPI is such an important thing to do or have done. I've learned both of these cars so well that I've helped other people make decisions buying (especially the R129) because there's just too much missing from buying guides on them. Am I an expert on either R129s or MX5s? No, but the near 50k miles I've put on each one (yes, each one) have taught me more than I could have ever imagined. I wouldn't call either of these perfect, nor would I want them to be. I bought the best examples I could have found for the fact that I'm going to drive the shit out of them. I've done 30 foot rolling burnouts in the SL, and I've totally spun out in the Miata pushing the the limits of my driving. I don't ever want to sell any of my 3 cars, but the stories I would have for a buyer will blow their minds.
Stay safe and healthy everyone!!
I would definitely impulse buy an Impulse, those were distinctive looking cars in a good way.
There are certain cars that you really need to pounce on if you can. My imported Alfa Romeo 155 2.5 V6, for example. In excellent condition unmolested, they are exceedingly rare. It also happened to be a very rare Ltd. Edition for the JDM market with unicorn parts such as a full Zender bodykit. If I did not grab that car in 2012, I would guaranteed not have found another one like it.
These podcasts make my day, whenever I see they are posted it makes me smile. keep up the great work guys, glad you guys are safe and well:)
This show is solid gold
Couldn't agree more! PPI is a requirement esp when purchasing from a used car dealer. They all say "This car is cherry" but the PPI and DME and ignition range report tell you EXACTLY how the car/engine has been treated. Was recently ready to buy a 997S. DME report had a long-long list of faults and multiple zone 4 and 5 over-revs. A few hundred bucks on the pre-buy was money well spent to walk away from that hot mess
Really liked this one. Great information and great episode. I’m glad that you’re still doing these
I have a GT 350R and you guys had mentioned fit and finish on newer cars, I wouldn't trade this car for anything but the fit and finish on the exterior panels was marginal, everything else on the car was on point. Thanks for keeping it real!!
To be fair that is a fairly high-end car I have a Focus ST as my daily driver and at the end of the day it's still a Ford Focus the panel gap is pretty horrendous
To Jason's point about the difference in opinions between experts and more casual observers around 43 minutes:
I think someone who spends time heavily invested in the car industry is much more likely to understand the consistent effort needed to properly maintain a car over a long period of time. There's a respect for that consistent devotion of time and effort (or time and money) to ensure that the car isn't being neglected from a maintenance perspective.
A car that someone got resprayed after neglecting is like someone who lives off frozen pizza going out to a restaurant and eating a salad to look healthy. A car that's properly maintained being driven off-road occasionally is like someone who eats healthy normally having pizza night with their friends. Or to put it another way: the cliche "form is temporary, class is permanent" and well maintained cars show class.
Completely agree
The improvised compression check described (28:30) is a a good one to have in your quiver.
Would've loved to have that license plate on an Impulse RS
Love the details on factory prep of press cars near the end of the video. Very interesting.
They say you’re buying the owner as much as the car, so yeah, I judge the hell out of the seller. Nice garage space? Good tires? Find em on Facebook or what job they have. Do they have other cars? What are those cars like? And then test drive it, get it on a lift or check the underside, etc. I also always ask, “if you were keeping it, what things would you fix or do to it?” You can tell if they are full of it sometimes.
Nice to meet a fellow gay car enthusiast
I AM TAKING A BASEBALL BAT TO EVERY CAR PURCHASE NOW
That's why I never buy -inspect- my own cars...
It's a simple solution:
I buy -check- my friends cars...and they do the same with the one that will me mine.
If it was Derek getting a 996 and not thinking about the Miata, Jason WOULD NOT let him off the hook that easy!
Love to see an episode about big engines in normal cars. Ferrari motor in lancia etc! Loving the channel! Cosworth episode would be amazing too
A mechanic I know built a Carreragon in the late 80s....great to see going by nose in the air, rear squatting under acceleration...he didnt change the transaxle, but they were cheap enough to be sacrificial.
Hi guys, simple test I will be asking a mechanic to do on my next purchase and PPI…check for exhaust in the coolant. Takes about 10 mins. If the test solution turns from blue to yellow then the head gasket is very questionable! The thoroughness that mechanics have doing a PPI varies wildly in my view. Questionable head gasket finding would be very helpful part of negotiating the final price and so simple to do.
It's funny, the first time I actually got a PPI it left me spectacularly unprepared for the shitshow of a car I ended up buying. It was a rare stateside manual-swapped Jaguar XJR6, so in the long run it was worth it, but the list of unexpected bad things kept getting longer for years after I took it home.
18:08, now I know what it sounds like inside a spooling turbocharger!
Reminds me of someone who bought a VW Bus at auction, and then people pointed out that it's not an original 21 window and was just hacked together
Please explain the argentinian plate issue haha. Cheers from Buenos Aires.
Very simple: it looked great on a black car. 🤷♂️ Cheers back from California!
@@JasonCammisa you should get one of the new ones then, European Style but with latin flavour. You got quite a following from down here Señor Cammisa
Hahaha, I've just bought an E39. Ordered a PPI done by an independent shop twice. Checked history a couple of times. Ended up buying sight unseen, after watching a 10-second insta story by the seller xD
Great show guys!
Does it count as sight unseen if Derek went to look at it told how bad it was and i still bought it🙃
Hahahaha I was like wow that reminds me of that Volvo 745 TIC and then I looked at your username.
Loving the car it slowly getting parts for it. Thanks again
@@jsmaldokj It went to the right owner. I'm really glad it's getting saved.
I was unwise enough to buy a R32 GTR from an importer with a good reputation having never seen it in the metal. Big mistake. The car had a lot of problems none of which the importer, who had no presence in my country, was willing to help with. Would never buy a car worth more than four figures without seeing it first again.
Lemon squad sounds ideal
What about record the Carmudgeon facing each other (camera trick), like when you were together. I guess you should need about 2 cameras each though.
Isquzu.. hilarious!
For home haircuts and heavy duty manscaping, gentlemen, I suggest the Oester 76. The M1A1 Abrams tank of clippers.
Great content! I actually bought an E90 M3 from a Nissan dealer, the owner of which happened to have a BMW dealership too. The BMW dealership has been servicing my extended warranty and the overall experience has been great. But when I bought the car, I paid for an in depth PPI from an unrelated BMW dealership, owned by someone else. They were able to to tell me that the car had been launched exactly one time prior to my purchase and that the throttle body actuator was in need of replacement. The selling dealership took care of that actuator at their sister BMW dealership and my extended warranty took care of the other one a couple years later.
Since I've owned the car, I've had one accident, impact on the rear driver side wheel, that required a new rear bumper, some control arms, replacing the winter wheel and tire that took the impact and some paint. The repaint wasn't perfect.
Is it worth my while going back to the body shop that did the paint, should I go somewhere else or just leave it?
I may sell the car one day, I may not. There's a chance that the value of these goes up, being the last NA and only V8 gen M3. I love the car and the noise it makes and it only mildly bothers me that the paint isn't absolutley perfect. Is this car never going to be worth enough to justify paying for a repaint in Silverstone II? Ive had trouble tracking down a retouch kit for this colour, apparently they no longer exist... Am I worried over nothing?
Who can I talk to about this?
Also, how familiar are you guys with the Canadian market? I'm in Toronto, I might be interested in some older german cars, but I'm not sure where to start.
I specifically want a wagon.
Thanks again for making these vids, I look forward to your podcasts, every week!
Zishan Syed your M3 is not going to up in value sorry to tell you that. And it’s defiantly not going up now that it’s been in an accident. I would take the car somewhere else if you’re looking to get it fixed. I would save your wagon money fixing the m3 when it brakes. Brakes suck on the M so u should skip the wagon and buy better brakes lol
Slight itch to scratch for the Isuzu VehiCROSS, a tiny bit maybe... Certainly wouldn't see another one on the road!
So you are saying that buying my 2010 997 with 175k miles on it without ppi was probably not a good idea ;-). Drove about 2k miles with it up to now and only have needed to fix a few small things.
A compression check, or at least the fuel pump relay/starter check, would have almost certainly saved me from overpaying for my Miata when it needed an engine rebuild...ugh. Cause: was excited by car, didn't think.
Since COVID broadcasting from home I can't help staring at Derek's California map poster. Is it available online?
Never gave a feedback as it is not possible to do it on Spotify. Nevertheless I thoroughly enjoy this conversations!!!
My job is people telling me nothing happened to their car and that it's in perfect condition when I can prove it isn't. Ugh
Just an FYI ebay car sales are non-binding. It's up to the buyer and seller to complete the transaction. Either side can back out. No need for the baseball bat.
Mk3 Vr6 Gti has an electric auxillary water pump...
It does not have a rest button.
Sorry Derek but as a retired ER Dr I must correct you. The phrase is "Piss Poor Protoplasm Poorly Put Together."
This goes without saying but in the case of a Jaguar XJ6 from the 80's, you dont need a pre-purchase inspection...or a post-purchase inspection. In fact you don't need an inspection at all, because your not going to buy one.
Dont. Buy.One.
Sincerely,
Someone who bought one.
IME nobody sells a perfectly good car - there is a reason tehy're selling and you'll find out what that is in the first 2 weeks of ownership.
From dealerships you'll pay more but they do inspect and fix things and stand behind them more than 'as is' sales.
Jason, super curious how you got the build details on the press car. Where did you get access to the internal notes?
From the manufacturer, except Tesla.
Tesla doesn't tell you shit
How much should it cost? Mazda gave me quote for $150 for and inspection and $480 for a diagnostics test w compression and reports on the engine
Jason, How much did you sell the Isuzu pup for? More than $300?
Posted this before completing the episode, but still curious about the number!
You should an episode on diesels, the U.S. seems to have a different approach to them than Europe and also I don't even know what diesels the U.S. got because I pay no attention to them at all because they're everywhere in Europe today..
J and D. Done with all Isuzus? How about the Bellet GTR from late 60's. I never heard of it until I found it tonight playing old Gran Turismo.
Wasn't The Impulse is pretty much what the mkII Scirocco was going to be until VW decided to "borrow" some of Giorgetto Giugiaro's design cues and go their own way? Seems like the perfect car for the Scirocco prince himself!
I just bought a toyota suv and had to put 6 grand in it the first month. Half of it I saw coming.
@JasonCammisa is that a 2000GT diecast I see behind Derek lolll?
Derek is starting to look like a Q-Tip.
PPIs........"Pay me now or pay me later."
There's a press SRT Durango for sale in my area. Am I looney for being interested?
24:47 he said doo-doo
WHAT'D U SELL THE TRUCK FOR JASON?!?!?
Whaaaaat? Jason? Isn't that a VW Recaro seat???
Tri-cyc-lay Quattroportte?
Note to self buy Cammisa used autos in the future :)
Damn I though I was trippn...they moved the comments🤦🏾♂️...but You’ve must’ve never been to Savannah, ATL, Norfolk, Richmond, Charleston, etc...it’s NOT an “east coast thing” lol
The most important thing is to buy something you can TRULY afford, so you can handle whatever happens. Ask me how I know...
I dream about importing an early Isuzu 117 coupe, but I'm weird.
They're gorgeous cars!
Are you guys using 2 pairs of iPhone headphones?
Yes.
Hose clamps are a subjective thing.Hose clamps have improved. I,n the day if you where good mechanic you would put new clamps on a hose.Dont dis on a mechanic for changing hose clamp.
These guys are lovers. Prove me wrong.
So your friends used the vacuum to only gather your hair.
I saw the perfect I mean perfect 996.1 Aerokit it was perfect colour, perfect interior, amazing condition, lowish miles. So I had it in the air inspected everything and it had no issues.. I'm currently holding the remains of the IMS bearing in my hands whilst I weep into my lap. FML. (It's actually fixed now, I just keep the IMS bearing to remind me how much of a twat I am)
yee
Hyphen - just put a bird in your hairdo. Then the "nest look" will appear on purpose.
@jasonCammisa please answer a question from someone that can't grasp it. How do real car people such as yourselves live in Commiefornia? The list is a mile long of why I would never be caught dead living there and no the beautiful scenery doesn't come close to making up for it. Love all the work you guys do so thanks for the entertainment you guys provide, especially now.
Nothing is more expensive than cheap Mercedes.....
ma boys)
Where are are our corona virus tests!?
Really liked this one. Great information and great episode. I’m glad that you’re still doing these
Really liked this one. Great information and great episode. I’m glad that you’re still doing these