I'm super excited about this video because so many people have asked me, "Brother Allen, are you a Calvinist?" Well, I answer that in this video along with really explaining some of the specifics as it relates to Calvinism. Let me know below what direction, if any, you personally lean. I'm looking forward to reading your comments!
I've come across about Calvinism 6 years ago ., I can't agree to some of it too and with your video I am more clear about it. Also first time to get this TULIP acronym of calvinism. And I can guarantee millions of Christians don't have any idea about this too. Im sure this will give clarity. In regard with election and predestination I think we can study carefully Ephesians 1 and note all Or underline the "in Christ'". , and see what the Holy Spirit teaches us.
So if you don't 100% agree with a theologian on all their thoughts, it must mean you 100% agree with some other theologian? Even though there's been thousands of theologians? These guys are not the ultimate authorities on these topics. It seems like such a false dilemma. Just wanted to put that out there. I think Non-Calvinists are very misrepresented by Calvinists.
@@liesbethvanham5443 amen! Check out Mike Winger's expository teachings on Calvanism and why it's unbiblical ...he is not Arminian and I am also on neither side 100 percent. God bless you sister
Great video man, I'm a calvinist, but don't care much about the terminology I just like to say I'm a Bible believing Christian. Also I'm cool with where anyone lands as long as they have a biblical conviction behind it.
@@armac8158 “doctrines of grace” is just a rebranding tactic to deceive more into adopting Calvin’s system. It’s a dishonest way of communicating. We all think we are followers of Christ regardless of theological conviction. Whether you like it or not, Calvin has influenced your theology more than Christ, even if you prefer to call it doctrines of grace.
Thank you brother Allen for breaking things down... Praise God for how he's using you as you exercise your gifts for the Kingdom...Many blessings to you and your family!!!
Take a chance to listen to Leighton Flowers at his UA-cam channel Soteriology 101, as well as William Lane Craig’s Molinist perspective if you haven’t. Because of the current popularity of Calvinistic preachers, organizations, and resources you often don’t come across the best scholars and resources from a more Arminian perspective. If you really care about truth listen to and understand the best presentation of different perspectives before you solidify yourself into one. Love and grace to everyone
Loved this! Thank you for this educational video about an important topic of theology. I was curious if you would ever do a series on Church history or important people of church history? That would be an awesome series!
Hey Allen, great topic for discussion and I fully understand the tension with Limited Atonement and Irresistible Grace. Like yourself I try to avoid labels in general because I find they invariably fall short of the subject matter and in particular with regard to the gospel because I find that every statement requires an explanation to some degree. With that being said I do believe that the atonement which Christ effected on the cross is limited in its scope but not in efficacy. In this sense Christ died for all who believe, and all who believe have received the full pardon on their sins. So the limited nature of the atonement comes into play in this way, that repentance and faith are a requirement for this grace to be credited to the believers account. And since Jesus warns us about the broad gate contrasted by the narrow gate, we can see that from his perspective, the atonement is equated with the narrow gate. And it is therefore limited since we know that the broad gate leads to destruction and few there are who find it. This speaks not to Christs inability to save the whole world, but rather to the worlds rejection of him. And with regard to the issue of Irresistible grace, it is very closely linked with the perseverance of the saints in this way - all who believe in Jesus Christ do so because God drew us to him by first writing our names in the book of life in eternity past, and then by informing us in our lifetime about that marvelous reality through the bible. As Jesus said "all that the father has given me will come to me" so the Irresistible nature of grace is bound up in the sovereign plan of God and his power to execute that plan. Which is the same reality that affords the believer the assurance that he cannot loose his salvation because it is 100 percent wrapped up in the nature, power and character of God. We could not save ourselves then and we cant save ourselves now. But Christ is able and so he truly is Irresistible both his person and his work. And so anyone who comes to Jesus Christ in faith has demonstrated that his grace is Irresistible by believing him. And our confidence in his power is the basis for our perseverance because he himself keeps us safe as he says in John 10:28-30 "and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My father who has given them to me is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the fathers hand. I and the father are one" John Calvin was right about the sovereignty of God being essential. I find that all tensions in scripture can be comprehended in the framework of Gods sovereignty who works everything after the counsel of his will. God bless you brother!
If you are truly SAVED I don't think you can lose your Salvation. Now if you go up to the front just because others did or to show a friend, then you are gonna bust Hell wide open. JMHO.
I feel for people who are poorly taught and poorly LED everything that Allan is saying is true. This does not make people who are poorly LED not Christians.
I have two comments for you. One, you were very fair in your treatment of calvinism. Two, I would call your attention to Galatins 6 vs. 14. In that verse Paul says that we should glory in nothing but the cross of Christ. My question to you is how could we glory in the cross if some for whom Christ died are now in Hell.
Good video. I appreciate your honesty and humility in acknolwedging the journey we are all on in growing in the knowledge of our Lord. I would still say that there inadequate understanding of Calvinism from a historical perspective. First of all, Monergism (Calvinism) goes right back to the early church (Paul, Clement, Augustine), it runs through medievil scholasticism (Lombard, Aquinas) and through to the Reformation (Luther, Clavin, Puritans). Limited Atonement is a must for any Calvinism or Monergistic view... 4 point calvinism destroys the harmony of the Trinity in the work of salvation. Jesus came to do the will of the Father, to die for those who the Father had given Him (chose), Jesus sends the Spirit to apply that work to the Elect. To have Jesus dying for all, puts Him in direct contradiction to the Father and the Spirit, they are essentially made to be in disagreement.
We believers must be very careful to study God's word and then form our convictions from it, rather than to form our convictions first and then try to make God's word say what we want it to say. In my opinion, that is what "labeled" Christians do, whether they call themselves Calvinists, Arminians, Catholics, Lutherans, Baptists, or anything else. We must resist the temptation of trying to make God's word say what we want it to say. Cults twist Scripture for their own agendas. There is no substitute for personally reading and studying the Bible. God promises to give us wisdom when we ask for it. (James 1:5) There is no substitute for pastors teaching the Scriptures to their congregations. "The perseverance of the saints" (5th point) is something I have thought about, and I've concluded that it is false, if it means that a true Christian will stay faithful to God for his/her entire life. Here's the problem: What degree of "faithful" do we have to stay? We all sin everyday in some way--how much everyday sin is acceptable and allows us to still qualify us for perseverance? "All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" (Romans 3:23), and "Whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it" (James 210). And what if a person is proud of staying "faithful" for his/her entire life--isn't pride a sin? And then read the letter Paul wrote to the Galatians--they gained salvation by their believing in Christ (like John 3:16), but the Judaizers convinced them that they had to keep the Law in order to be saved. And besides that, who are we to say someone is saved or not, if he/she has believed in Christ? (See I Corinthians 4:5.) I could write more, but I won't. Thank you for your videos, Allen! I appreciate the time, study, prayer, and thought you put into them. Keep leaning on God! (Proverbs 3:5-6)
So, you believe that God arbitrarily creates some people for one reason; to burn for eternity in hell. They can't accept Christ dying on the cross for their sins. God somehow gets glory for making them sinners and sending them to hell. So, from the very start, God tells Adam and Eve, do not eat from the tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, and yet He makes them eat from that very tree, since as per Calvinism, EVERYTHING is God's will. God gives the Ten Commandments, thou shall have no other gods before me, and then makes people worship false gods. God says, do not take God's name in vain, and then makes countless millions do that very thing. God says, do not kill, steal, commit adultery etc and then makes countless millions do the very things He says, don't do. A serial child molesting rapist/murderer is simply doing what God has ordained for him to do? You think of all the evil that is perpetrated on innocent people by evil, wicked, satanically driven individuals, and you want me to believe that God 's will is being carried out? The Bible says, God is holy, righteous, and full of mercy. AND the Bible says, God is love. God's will is not being carried out, at least not in the way Calvinists say. My Bible says, God is not willing that any should perish." and yet, it also has Jesus saying, "Broad is the road that leads to destruction (hell) and many are on it, but straight and narrow is the road that leads to life (Heaven) and few ever find it." So, while God is not willing that any should perish, but that ALL should come to repentance and be saved, many, in fact, most are not. Calvinism has a problem with the Sovereignty of God. They just can't grasp that God, in His Sovereignty, can give man a degree of free will. Hence, Joshua can say, "Choose you this day whom you will serve." In act 17:30 God can call men everywhere to repent, that is , to change their mind about sin and turn from it and turn to God through Christ. Why are we called in the Bible to share the Gospel with the lost and lead them to Christ, if it won't matter; after all, God decides who is saved and who is lost, our preaching won't change that. If our preaching would in some way help them make a decision for Christ, that would imply some degree of free will. You mention how the Bible says, "No one can come to me unless the Spirit draws him..." It doesn't say, no one can come to me unless the Father MAKES him come. Yes, unless the Holy Spirit is working, we can't come to Christ, but when He draws us we are now able to say Yes or NO to His call. Again, that's why and how Joshua can say, "Choose you this day whom you will serve." The Calvinist God seems to be saying one thing in scripture and then going against His own words by making humans do the very things He says for us not to do. Show less
its called the lambs book of life. God already chose whom he gave the keys to heaven as a free gift. its not of ourselves. before he ever created the heavens an d the stars
Hey Bro @THE BEAT By Allen Parr Considering you hold to unconditional election as described in this video, doesn’t it logically follow then limited atonement is true? If God chose the elect and damned the unelect before the world was, LA has to be true doesn’t it according to TULIP? Let me know if I’m missing something, as I am not a Calvinist. But another thing for you to consider is like you said in the video, there are passages which clearly make LA extremely hard to believe. Don't be afraid to reject it or revaluate the whole of TULIP as I've heard Calvinists say before, you accept all or none of Tulip. God bless.
I don't know. For me, Limited Atonement is clear. And I think John 3:16 is also clear on that. The gift is for anyone/everyone WHO BELIEVES. It doesn't say it's for everyone (period). If in the end you do not believe, then atonement was not for you. But maybe I'm missing something. Now, I'm not saying Jesus' death could not extend to everyone. All I'm saying is that I think it was offered to those who believe only (i.e. God's elect).
There are no didectic verses that say that God made a divine decree before the universe started controlling every molecule and thought in the universe and no one has a choice, even God anymore, Most Calvinists don't realize that this is the heart of their worldview. There would have to be a ton of verses supporting this to overturn the mountain of clear verses that indicate that God and mankind have free wills. Total depravity isn't in the Bible, it is single depravity, the only thing that unbelievers cannot do is Believe scripture. They can do calculus, understand and teach the Bible better than anyone you know, yet somehow don't understand? They understand it AND reject it making them more blame worthy. My experience tells me this isn't true. Ephesians 1 and Romans 9 do not say what you think they say if you were taught by a Calvinist or Arminian, quite the opposite. Romans isn't about the elect vs nonelect but the hardened Jew and the Gentiles.
I’m not a Calvinist. I’m a Disciple of Jesus Christ not a disciple of Man. I believe God was manifest in the Flesh to die for my sins and whosoever believes in Him will not perish and will have everlasting Life ,He Died for my sins not just mine but the whole world’s sins and rose from the dead on the 3rd day paying a death we all rightly deserve, I believe Jesus is coming back to put the devil away for good and I believe our works don’t keep us saved or saved us in the first place,we are kept by the power of the Holy Spirit.
This verse unequivocally vaporizes the idea of limited atonement: 1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world Even if a Calvinist tries to say that words like "us" or "our" refer to the elect, this verse says NOT for US ONLY, but FOR the sins of the WHOLE WORLD.
The problem is that Calvinists don’t care what the Bible says. If their ideology says something different that’s what they adhere to. They see the world through TULIP coloured glasses.
I think that Jesus died for the WHOLE world, that Jesus had the punishment for ALL sin, but the atonement of that price was limited to those who believe. So yes, the efficacy is enough to pay for everyone's, but we are not universalists.
Dr Leighton Flowers just invited you to be on his channel soteriology 101 to have a discussion about calvinism because of the critique he just did on this video. Here is the link to the critique he did on this video - ua-cam.com/video/3jgex7-nuE0/v-deo.html
Less division... more humility and humbleness in the body of Christ! Looks like Alan and I have these few points and things we wrestle with concluding on in common right now. God bless, and thank you brother Alan!
Yes, Thank You Allen for this much needed video, for that information. I like it that it wasn't a long video. I will need to rewatch it, for it to sink in. God Bless You, Your Family, and Your Ministry.
I knew of two calvinist preachers who turned away two individuals who came forward to accept Jesus as Savior because they deemed they didn't know enough about scripture and thus couldn't be elect. They just wanted Christ's offer of mercy and were turned away. One of the preachers told a small child she might not be one of God's chosen when she came forward to accept Christ. I've never had a good interaction with a calvinist who believes God picks who will and won't go to Heaven.
I am more of a Baptist "traditional" view of soteriology. I am always examining my beliefs in view of the Word and it seems like you are, too. If you have time, check out Soteriology 101's response to your video. A lot of Calvinists don't understand our view and it might enlighten you on another perspective. Thanks.
Hello Brother, can you have a discussion with Leighton Flowers? Born again believers who are not Calvinist can still center around the sovereignty of God.
Hey brother Parr, thanks for doing this video! Leighton Flowers has produced this response video (ua-cam.com/video/3jgex7-nuE0/v-deo.html) which I hope you'll get a chance to look at. I would love to see you two have a discussion (he has said the same)! Leighton is always super respectful of people who disagree with him :)
Hello Alan I really do like some of your contact but I think you should watch this video with Doctor flower even in your videos you said that you are open for you to change your mind. The only thing I don't agree with you on is Marcus Rogers Jeremiah the prophet warns us about false prophets and I most certainly think that anybody who denies the trinity is not part of the body of Christ. I really hope Marcus Rogers repent because I don't understand how Marcus can teach from the Bible and deny the nature of God.
I will never call myself a "Calvinist" or an "Arminian." To do so is to do the same that the Corinthians did: "I follow Peter." or "I follow Apollos." (1 Corinthians 3:4). I follow Christ. I agree in some places with Calvin, just like I agree with my pastor or my God-fearing friends in certain areas but not in others. However, I won't identify myself with Calvin or as a Calvinist. I identify myself in Christ alone.
Why follow man's ideas? TULIP is man's idea. Stick to the Scriptures, not man's ideas. From God's perspective, the new heaven and new earth already exists. John and Paul both saw it. For those of us bound by time, our perspective, we can't comprehend. Faith comes by the hearing of His word. The choice is for everyone. Love requires free will or else it's not love. We learn that from Adam and Eve. It was the whole point of the tree of knowledge.
Man's ideas? It's just interpretation of scripture. Sticking to the scriptures still requires an understanding of it. There's nothing wrong with TULIP.
Brother Allen, Brother Leighton Flowers says he'd love to discuss this with you on his program. He made a very respectful response video to yours. What say you?
I would love to see you have a discussion with Dr. Leighton Flowers from soteriology 101. I think it would be eye opening for you. With brotherly love and respect your born again and saved non-Calvinist brother.
I am coming out of Calvinism. I believe it’s damaging and contradicts all the other scriptures about Christ, His love, dying for the whole world, etc. Saying He only died for some just contradicts so much. Calvinists have a few scriptures they use most taken out of context. So many people on UA-cam like Leighton flowers can explain it better than me. What a dreadful doctrine
Brother Allen check out soteriology101 with Leighton flowers he has many good videos on the subject of Calvinism and he even said in a video he would love to speak with you on the subject of Calvinism God bless you as you seek for more truth out of his word
There is no such thing as a 2, 3, or 4 point Calvinist. Anyone who claims that doesn’t understand what calvinism is. The foundation of calvinism is point 1 total depravity. All other points are built off point one and support each other. If you reject some points than you reject the entire system. Majority of calvinist have horrible inconsistencies and double standards because they lack the knowledge of what calvinism is. Calvinism is a horrible doctrine meant to cause division and confusion among believers. This video only perpetuates the problem. Run away from calvinism never look back.
Brother Allen please have a look at this video. Brother Leighton Flowers would love to have a discussion with you, if you're up for it. God bless you Allen. ❤🙏🏽
I appreciate you publicly admitting to having faith in controversial beliefs. That takes guts because you may or may not be wrong. I respect that 100%. However, I believe Calvinism is unbiblical and dangerous for two reasons. The first one is that Calvinism is unbiblical. Ephesians 1:4-5 could be talking about all men and women. God chose us all to be saved instead of animals, angels, etc. People can have free will. Or God chose us to be saved when He (The Word that was with God and the Word that was God) chose to end up dying for us on the cross so that we could be saved. The latter explanation is probably more in tune with the verse, but it explains things easily and logically. The second thing is that Calvinism is dangerous. The devil doesnt want more people to go to heaven. Obviously this is why he targets Christians so much, because it isnt like he can stop us from going to heaven. This is why Calvinism teaches God chooses who will get saved. If God chooses, so some can get saved and some cannot, we shouldnt "go and prech the gospel unto every creature," because if they get saved they get saved, so we dont witness and the devil drags millions more into hell. Im not trying to judge you, and i greatly appreciate you standing up for this if you believe in it, but it is unbiblical and dangerous, and i dont want more christians to get misled. So please, consider this alternate meaning, because souls are dying every day, and they all need the gospel.
This video was a blessing to me. I have recently FINALLY started studying my Bible on a higher lever after being saved for nearly 19 years. I've read it from beginning to end, taken classes, etc. but I've found myself at a crossroad questioning some of the Charismatic practices I learned as a student and leader and what is trully Biblical. I've started studying Calvinism and Arminism and where I stand on these principles, but not as a dogmatic classification of who I am. I just know that I love Jesus, He's my Lord and Savior, and my responsibility as a Believer is to go into the world and make disciples of men. Like you, I admit that I struggle with the same principes of Calvinism that you do. I also believe that once saved, always saved but in the context that if a person has truly become saved and yielded to God, God will "hold" us as we perservere until our final day. Those who turn away from Him and never return, were never saved to begin with. I believe the words of Christ, "And this is the will of God, that I should not lose even one of all those he has given me, but that I should raise them up at the last day." John 6:39
Dr. Leighton Flowers has a channel called Soteriology 101 which focuses mainly on this debate. He is a former Calvinist. I recently read John Lennox's "Determined to Believe" and thought that was really excellent. The main struggle I have as a non-Calvinist is that it seems like people assume that if you're not Calvinist then the only other option is Arminian. I'm also not Arminian. I think both Calvin and Arminius tried to explain their theology on determinism, free will and sovereignty, but they are not ultimate authorities on these topics and there have been many other theologians since who don't necessarily 100% agree with the entirety of their views.
Spot on. Love way you explain. The thing that gets my back up is that calvanists I have met seem to assume they are the authority. They seem unaware that they are peddling a systematic theology with holes in it and not The bible. 5 points of calvanism and armanisim have flaws becuase both are mans attempts to explain the bible and salvation in a water tight argument. It dosent work. I have major issues with nearly all 5 points of calvanism. To me the early church didnt focus on petty arguments. They preached the gospel to All, they assumed All could be saved to the uttermost. They knew all wouldn't be saved but preached as if all could. Thos overemphasis on Gods sovereignity makes Christian's inactive and as John Wesley warned " They fall into the sleep of calvanisin".
Flowers’ view is called Provisionism (God has provided the means for everyone to have the repentance and faith necessary to be saved). That’s what I believe. I also recommend this channel.
Yes, I'm almost exactly where you are, brother Allen, and I have been follower of Christ for 45 years now. I've taken undergraduate and graduate level theology classes, have a Master of Divinity degree, and I was a pastor for 10 years. Yet I still find myself in the same predicament you're voicing here. The limited atonement I keep vacillating on what the scriptures teach. Today I'm leaning more toward limited atonement, ask me next week I may not be so sure 😉. I have a hunch there are many like us on this point. But I have no doubt when we see Jesus it will all be clear! For sure, none of us have it all figured out, nor will any of us be 100% right on 100% of theology. But that doesn't stop me from continuing to learn and seek to understand and grow in knowing the Lord. We are all in process, and as long as we are heading in the right direction, well, that's what I believe matters most.
"Today I'm leaning more toward limited atonement" Well if it turns out you are not elected, your 45 years and your Pastoring etc etc have been a complete waste of time. That's what you are in effect saying.
Great video. As a soteriology 101 regular, It'd be great if you could contact Leighton Flowers. He would love to have you on his show to discuss these things. God bless
Appreciate your channel Allen. You should have Leighton Flowers on your show. Interview him on your show. That would be a great talk, you are both cordial, kind and interested in thinking!
@@jonanthony3913 I see, but do you have any specific example of #1 misrepresenting Calvinism? Do you have any examples? I also, don't see the "slander" (the action or crime of making a false spoken statement damaging to a person's reputation.) examples either but we can stick with #1 for now. Thanks brother.
I'm so shocked 😲 I've been following Allen par for some years. Never would I imagine he was a Calvinist. He's a good teacher, but I I didn't always agree with his theology for the past few years I've been watching him. I do agree with many things that he teaches, but I guess now I understand why something always felt different. I pray God keep revealing His truth to Allen so that he can find better clarity for the things he is wrestling with and doesn't understand. God bless
I spent a long time working up the courage to listen to this one, because Calvanism has been the root of my spiritual suffering for a decade now. And while I am bitter towards the fruits of Calvanism that took form in my life, I will try to be respectful as I make my counter arguments here. On the whole, Calvanism is not Biblical if you take everything "supporting" it in context, and I think it's a clever deception by Satan using Scripture to slip in this anti-Biblical doctrine as a foundation of the Evangelical church today. Total depravity - the idea that we can't even respond to God because we're spiritually dead. This is wrong, because faith is not a work. In the Bible, faith and works are considered separate things. And if you even think about it logically instead of copping out and appealing to some random mystery we're never meant to understand, if we're unable to respond to God's goodness and the Gospel, then we can't be at fault for it, and therefore God punishing us when He made us incapable of responding is character assassination of God - God looks like a vengeful, spiteful, hateful being, which is exactly what Satan wants us to believe about God. Unconditional election - This point weighs on the discrepancy of the definition of the word "sovereign." Calvanists believe "sovereign" to mean that God controls literally everything, including people sinning. I would disagree, because "sovereign" does not mean "micromanage" or "controlling literally everything." Sovereign can be better described like this: Elon Musk, CEO of Tesla is responsible for how Tesla runs and the direction it goes, it's targets and ultimate fulfillment of those targets. However, Elon Musk isn't soddering the circuit boards together himself. And if someone on the assembly line decides it'd be funny to take a dump on the conveyor belt, does that mean Musk controlled that employee into taking a dump on the conveyor belt? Of course not. God is directing the course of history ultimately to the recreation of Heaven and Earth and the judgment of mankind. But me marrying a non-believer and disobeying God isn't going to thwart God's ultimate plan, but rather my rebellion against Him and rejection of Christ's work will determine whether or not I'm part of it. To believe that God does unconditionally elect means that God created most people to be firewood for Hell, to suffer for all eternity because God not only caused them to sin, but also caused them to not repent and thus gain access to His kingdom. And that means this version of God is cruel. And if this version of God _isn't_ cruel, that means good means evil and evil means good. Limited Atonement - It's the same thing with "unconditional election." Some Calvanists will say that God is under no obligation to save anyone, and even that He saves some is grace beyond comprehension. If that's the case, then how much more so would offering it to everyone who believes? Irresistible Grace - Resisting the grace of God is exactly the thing that leads to our damnation. We're all sinners falling short of the glory of God and we NEED Christ to be saved. It is our rejection of that grace that ultimately leads us to eternal damnation. Perseverance of the Saints - This is the one point I'll agree with, because God knows, if we fall away, how to bring us back. Like Jesus's parable about the one lost sheep of the 99, He will leave the 99 to bring back the one that was lost and will not rest until He does. I've put myself, unknowingly, in Calvanist churches and organizations or about 10 years. And it has been absolutely toxic for me. In times where I struggle, what I experienced was people looking for every way possible to discount your salvation and your genuineness. "Oh, you didn't tithe. Maybe you're not a real Christian. Maybe you weren't really saved. Maybe God didn't elect you. God hates anyone who isn't His real child." And other garbage like that. John Piper, Nic Gibson, Bible Study leaders and so on preached how I'm trash, and I'm trash because God made me to be trash, and he doesn't love me because of it. And no matter how hard I tried to grow in my faith, if God rejected me, I'll still be excluded from His Kingdom. And frankly, that has made me want to quit the faith many times. It's also made me want to kill myself, seeing the pointlessness of trying to be a faithful disciple of Christ when God never wanted me, or most people He created. I came across Dr. Leighton Flowers on UA-cam, who was able to explain this stuff better, and praise God, it's helped me endure the torment brought on by Calvanism and its fruit. Again, I reiterate, I believe Calvanism to be a clever deception Satan slipped into the modern church (especially since it wasn't championed until 1500 years after Christ). It's been so toxic to me, I will never go to a church again that is lead by those pushing Calvanism as it's main driving belief.
Irresistible Grace simply explains that those who are truly saved, they have not resisted the grace of God. That's just it. Real Elect of Christ will not resist Christ's grace. They may resist Christ for a while, but they have never truly resisted that grace in their lifetime, so they are saved. Only the damned will resist it. I'm still struggling with the idea of unconditional election, but only God knows the ultimate answers to our deepest theological questions. I rest my case here.
Also, Limited Atonement posits that the atoning blood that washes our sins only applies to those who accepted Jesus. Those who are damned were never atoned by the blood of Jesus. It's also called definite atonement, if one is baffled why Christ's sacrifice is only limited.
12:34 - “I don’t like to categorize myself by a particular theologian. I like to categorize myself as a basic Christian.” I’m the same way! I agree with Calvin, Arminius, and other theologians as far as they agree with the Scriptures.
@@johntrevett2944 why? And how. If I understand conditional salvation is that God extend is grace of Salvation and we can choose to respond to it or not right?
@@citamora Conditional security is acceptable only to those who also believe that they somehow contributed to their salvation in the first place (which Arminian theology logically implies). But this flies in the face of such passages as Ephesians 2:8-9: “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith-and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-not by works, so that no one can boast,” which clearly assert that we contribute absolutely nothing to our salvation; even the faith necessary to receive the gift of grace, is itself a gift of God. On the other hand, Arminianism gives man a reason to boast in the end. If by my cooperation with the Spirit of God I remain faithful to the end, I can boast (a little) about how I was able to stay the course and finish the race. However, there will be no boasting in heaven except to boast in the Lord (1 Corinthians 1:31). The doctrine of conditional security is not biblical; the Bible is quite clear that we persevere because God preserves us.
@@biglewlc12 Romans 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. John 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Leighton Flower did a broadcast commenting on this video. It would be great to see a discussion between the two of you. Here's Leighton's broadcast: ua-cam.com/video/3jgex7-nuE0/v-deo.html
Brother Allan, I believe the problem with Calvinism is that some of the terms are correct (for example yes I agree with total depravity) , in Calvinism these things often mean something different other Christians (by the way there’s more than just Calvinism and Arminianism). False dichotomy fallacy is VERY prevalent with many Calvinist teachers. The verses you have as proof texts for Calvinism all have other non Calvinist interpretations which in my opinion flow better with the whole canon of scripture and character of God. You missed the entire divine determinism of Calvinism as well which really makes the entire system fall apart. Soteriology 101 has TONS of videos on all of the things you described including going through tulip. Calvinism…no no way. Still Christians , many good folks affirm Calvinism but there is a reason it does out all the time… I’ve listened to you long enough, no you aren’t a Calvinist, don’t get caught in the wave…
Great response, thank you. As you mentioned, there are very sound and plausible interpretations of these passages that can be used in a non-Calvinist manner. Ultimately I think these manmade systems that are devised to attempt to understand the way God's infinite nature works are just exercises in futility, and the truth is a composite of more than one angle.
Whenever someone asks me this, I say I am a Christian with a reformed baptist theology. I don’t follow John Calvin, I follow Christ and try to live by the Bible day by day
Why not just tell the truth though? You know reformed Baptist theology comes from Calvin himself. We all follow Christ, just be up front about where your beliefs come from, it’s only for the goal of winning someone to your theological stance to hide Calvinism with a different name.
Which is what Calvin did, Paul said follow me as I follow Christ. If you live by the bible you are following the writers that was inspired by God, so was Augustine, Calvin, Martin Luther, Paul etc.
@@nesto2851 Jesus said no man can to me unless my father sends them. John 6:37. "All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away." ... John 6:44,65 John 15:16. Acts 13:48 Romans 9:16,22,23. Galatians 1:15,16 Ephesians 1:4,5 II Thessalonians 2:13
Thanks Allen, didn’t knew what Calvinism was before now. From your explanation, I consider myself not a Calvinist, but a follower of Christ. You are doing great, I have learnt a lot from you about what it takes to be a good and faithful Christian. God bless
Yes, this was a very good introduction for the topic. It is definitely good to just be a Christian, but it is also good to understand the deeper issues in the Calvinism vs Arminianism debate! God bless!
If everything happens according to God's will as per Calvinism, then a lot of really evil things happen, that God has called sin. This is ridiculous. God tells Adam and Eve, don't eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil and yet He has ordained that they will. Calvinism seems to be making God a liar, because He is telling them to not do something that He knows full well (according to Calvinism) that they have no choice but to do. We can go on and on; if God causes everything that happens, He is causing murder, rape, incest, drug use, drunkenness, lying stealing, sexual immorality, false religions, Satan worship, pedophilia, etc. The God of the Bible is love and calls us NOT to do all these things. Why would He turn around and make us do the very same things He tells us not to do? The Calvinist seems to sink on their own idea of the sovereignty of God. They don't seem to be able to acknowledge that God IN HIS SOVEREIGNTY can choose to give us some degree of free will. That's why there are so many scriptures saying "Whosoever will, may..." Scripture clearly gives us a choice. Follow Christ or not. Repent or not. Obey scripture or not. I believe, based on scripture, that God has given us choices with eternal repercussions, Heaven or Hell. That's why Joshua said choose you this day whom you will serve. I can by God's grace and the help of the Holy Spirit say, "As for me and my household, we will serve the Lord." By the way, yes, it is true; we can't come to Christ unless the Father draws us, but that says "draws us" not "makes" us a believer. God opens us up to the Good news and then we either say yes or no. And as far as predestination, I have no problem with it based on God's foreknowledge.
Here are two Scriptures below, which destroy the belief of those who say we must believe Jesus is GOD, or those who believe in the false doctrine of Calvinism.: *but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, THE SON OF GOD,* and that by believing you may have life in his name. John 20:31. *Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living GOD.* Matthew 16:16. And that by believing, you may have life, in his name. John 20:31.
Yo. I, like you, also struggled with limited atonement when it was really new to Reformed theology. It made me despondent. The idea that there is no hope outside of God's Grace made me very sad. After dwelling on it for a while and praying about it, I heard an argument made by John McArthur that helped me a little. But it wasn't until I looked to the old testament that I found my answer. The destruction of the world through the flood and the pruning of Sodom & Gomorrah put into perspective for me. It isn't that God wants to just flippantly kill his people. It's just that evil must be killed for goodness to prevail. Both instances were used to bring salvation to the rest of the world by seeing the consequences of their sin. And instead of being sad about it, I should be grateful that the Lord saw fit to spare me.
@cdr 777 I like how you put this!.. some similarities to my response I posted. And if you don't mind me adding, Dr Andrew Farley. He answers these above questions so well on his life call in radio show. It's on at 7: 03 Central everyday. 👋🎶
Michael, I can sympathize with what you're saying.. rather than me going on here, check out my previous comment to Allen and let me know what you think. 👋🎶
That's a good point. However listen to what God says not John Mccarthur. The scripture says God has no pleasure in the death of the wicked but rather he should turn and live. See Gods word says God does not want the death of the wicked, God gives them the opportunity to.repent. The huge issue with calvanism is they believe God created people with the intention of sending them to Hell. Augustine believed this. See how far removed this idea is from Gods will.
@@jasonpellegrini7148 good points Jason!!! And also about Augustine.. and if you also look at where the concept of hell came from, you'll see Augustine and early church fathers took it from the teachings of Socrates and Plato.. you'll see Turtullian it's the one that spearheaded and put together the concept of a fiery hell, Hades down under the ground.. check out Edward fudges videos on this.. I think you'll find them very interesting.
Thank you for the video this is such a great topic in understanding who we are in Christ. For example, I am strongly against Calvinism, I look at it and say "how can anyone believe this?" Yet, I fear that so many people allow their passions to turn to anger toward their brothers, either who are or who are not Calvinist. When that anger against the viewpoint is in our hearts we are tempted, when we meet someone who follows one way or the other we may transfer that anger towards them then we sin. We are called to love one another, Calvinism is debatable, love for your brother and sister in Christ is not. In fact as an avid non-Calvinist I have found great value in Calvinism. Why? Because I have spent more time in the Word because of it, challenged to think critically about what Scripture says. Whether or not I agree or disagree with Calvinism, if we all agreed we would spend less time thinking critically about what the Bible says. Thinking critically about one thing teaches us to think critically about the central issues of Christianity so that we can defend what we believe with reason. Furthermore, we are tested against temptation, do we allow our pride in our viewpoint to allow us to disobey the Word of God and murder our brothers and sisters in faith? (This can go with eschatology too). Finally, when you see a debate on Calvinism, when they are of one mind in terms of respect and faith in Christ, it can be truly edifying to study the Scripture and think critically on the subject, taking into account what both sides argue (not argue in a bad way).
@@ShepherdMinistry hmm, my point wasn't to debate Calvinism, but to demonstrate how we can become angry at our brothers for not agreeing with our theology, when there is Biblical arguments supporting both sides. When we explore the topic of Calvinism we gain a deeper understanding of the Word regardless of what side you take. When we do debate the issue we are driven to study even deeper. But, when we are angry because someone disagrees we sin. Please keep in mind I know there is heresy, I do not think either side is heretical when they follow Biblical principals. But, some heretical doctrines do fall stray from both sides.
I used inflammatory words to demonstrate how people become angry about it and can easily be tempted into sin. I could easily become angry because I believe strongly, but that is my pride.
I totally disagree with calvanism and especially their view of if you don't believe in calvanism you're automatically an arminian. The term Calvinist and arminian are no where in the Bible. Therefore it's false teachings ADDING to the word of God. No TULIP verbatim anywhere in the Bible either. Calvanism came straight from the pits of hell and will drag anyone to outer darkness who become ensnared in it's lies.
Calvanism is an evil doctrine from man and preaches another Jesus and I don't wish to know the Jesus of calvanism but I know the real son of God who died for the sins of the world. Whosoever shall call upon the name of the LORD shall be saved.
Keep looking into this doctrine before holding to it, Long story short, if you dont hold to one of these points you cant hold any of them, no such thing as a 4 pointer or 3 point calvinist, Also if you are a Calvinist and you believe God desires the eternal punishment of the majority of all men before they have done anything good or bad,(this is what Calvinism teaches) then you also should desire the same thing as this is how we are taught to pray, Praying for the will of God. Any calvinist that does not desire the eternal punishment for the majority of men before they have done anything good or bad have set them self to be more compassionate or some how more loving than the way that they believe God to be. side note the entire Arminian and Calvinist dichotomy is false, read the bible dont get sucked into the false dichotomy.
And just some thought on why you can drop part of TUILP off, if you dont confirmed limited attornment then you are saying Jesus died for people that the Father has unconditionally predestined for hell. So why did the Son suffer for those He knew the Father had already condemned. Also its interesting that you say you confirm Total depravity but not sure about irresistible grace, If man is totally deprived as calvinist define it then by nature man will always resist the grace of God, basically this goes for all points can drop one of them. Also i agree with the P but not for the same reason as a Calvinist.
Nice breakdown of the subject. I remember my first pastorate had a few Calvinists who held strongly to their positions. As a pastor in a new church I had to carefully navigate the TULIP land mine. Ultimately it was about agreeing on the essentials.
Yo Mr. Parr! You were called out by the originator of the Provisionist movement! Leighton Flowers did a whole show on you. Like you, he is a loving brother in Christ who I would pay to see you discuss and explore Calvinism with. He is an expert Soteriologist and very VERY kind, especially to brothers who are filled with the Spirit 😃
As someone who went down that rabbit hole to its conclusion, I’d answer anyone who claims to be a Calvinist who doesn’t accept all 5 points is not actually a Calvinist but a person wrestling with the brainwashing they have received from Calvinist teachings that utilize circular logic and redefining terms, words and examples in the scriptures to fit within the Calvinistic doctrine. The scripture viewed without going through the lens of Calvinism tells a different story that doesn’t have to wrestle with some how through Devine mystery God is deterministically and arbitrarily the author of human evils and not responsible himself for doing so. I could go on but, let’s just say there’s often a false dichotomy trotted out as a straw man to point to and claim victory. The choice isn’t Calvinism or Arminianism as I see it. Though if you must entertain such a false dichotomy, standing in the middle of them is the best place to stand. P.S. I in no way deny God’s sovereignty, I just believe he’s big enough to accomplish his desires as he desires them in spite of granting humanity the free will (not as Calvinist teach it but as commonly understood) to choose.
@@suavesoto7393 Poop then because I shortened some as trying not to stir up unnecessary conflict, which part? Is it still there I can put it back if it’s helpful to people I have a bit of soreness still from past experiences within a OPC so I’m trying to be careful to not let that influence what I say.
This is a really great video, delivered with courage, care and clarity. Thank you for putting this all so very well, without tangling up the theology and maintaining a strong focus throughout. I consider myself, perhaps like yourself in some ways, a humble follower of Jesus, that is, a simple Christian. I am not a huge fan of simplistic labels so much - theology isn't about picking a football team, you know!! So I do agree with some of the Calvinist five points - but firmly reject the others. I am no TULIP - more of a TP kind of guy!. Some may even say that I embrace aspects of Arminianism - but that's also not so straightforward either. I find WLC's position of Molinism quite interesting, but there are plenty of bones to pick there. I suggest that every theologian is wrong about some aspect of theology - no one is perfect, apart from God, of course. I love your honesty, but we probably don't entirely share an identical theology in every respect, sir!
GREAT SEGMENT! I am Reformed in my theology, which means I agree with the five points. But my Christian life didn’t start out this way. I began as a free-will Arminian. After years of careful study and then accepting/believing what the Word says, I am now firmly convinced (in heart and mind) that the Reformed view is the “most” biblical. Like you Allen, I do not use or embrace the label of being a Calvinists. Simply because I have reached the same conclusions as John Calvin does not make me one of his disciples. I frequently challenge those who want to wear the title of Calvinist instead of “Christian.” John Calvin never saved anyone, nor could he ever be the propitiation for anyone’s sin, so I believe it dishonors the Father and the Son for the redeemed to call themselves by any other name. I believe a Christian referring to him/herself by their denomination or by their hero is a precisely what Paul condemned in 1 Corinthians 3:4-9. “Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved” (Acts 4:12). Love your ministry! Keep up the good work.
Amen amen brother..!! Totally agree with you.. it’s so sad how so so many brothers and sisters don’t see it that way.. I truly believe that the Father just shakes his head with displeasure… seriously… we break his heart enough those who are in rebellion and living wicked lifestyles … to then see the church fight and argue.. 🤦🏽♂️.. God be with you brother..!!!
Predeterminism entered the church in the 5th century from Augustine, a former Stoic and Manachian Gnostic. The early church fathers taught against this doctrine for 4 centuries before Augustine.
Appreciate the video. Honestly this was one of the things I struggled with in seminary and was pretty discouraging at times as my classmates tried to put labels on me. I really didn't appreciate it nor did I like it. I'm like you and just consider myself a Christian who is growing in his faith and trying to discern what God says in his word. I shy away from proclaiming I'm a calvinist in any way because that seems to indicate you're a follower of John Calvin. Haha. There are things I agree with in Calvinism and there are things I agree with in armenianism so I guess I'm a hybrid. Haha. I just love the Lord and I want to try to look like him every day as he teaches me more about who he is. Thanks for your consistency
I think the issue even from a non seminary student is if God knows the future then from the human POV it looks like predestination. I think in reality both points exist as clearly God knows the future but He is definitely holding you to your actions and beliefs. I think being classic liberals in democracies we have issues with free will violations in the Bible but the story of Pharaoh having his heart hardened against Moses and the Devil going into Judas seems to heavily imply there are at least two examples of people having their free will over rode by God or Satan. Now in both cases you can argue their souls were primed for such an event but still it occurred. That would imply Pharaoh would have backed down sooner and that Judas wouldn't have betrayed Jesus to the point He'd have been killed. As for predestination, Jesus knows Judas will betray Him and calls Judas out and also tells Peter that he will betray Jesus 3 times. Now it is heavily implied Judas is in Hell and Peter is in Heaven, so Jesus knew what both men would do and what would happen in the long run to both men for their actions. I think it comes down to what kind of Christian you are, if you came in for the 2 hour long sessions of music and Ned Flanders version of Christianity you feel Calvinism is wrong but yet you can't explain how God knows the future much less why Satan would continue his pointless battle against a God who's own angel Michael is still stronger than you. On the other side the Calvinists do sound a little too harsh and it's a bit esoteric of a point that will go over most people's heads because they don't think about how God knows the future. I would go as far to say that while I agree with a lot of Calvinism it was probably an idea that didn't need to be brought up because it scares off Ned Flanders Christians if they think about it. Also I would argue that one of my issues as a protestant in general is overly committing to ideas to the point we split off from each other pointlessly. If that contention wasn't there America would have at least specified to be a Christian nation.
Thank you for your honesty because it has encouraged me to just take a breather! It’s so easy for younger Christians like myself to try and create this neatly packaged theology feeling as if we need all of our theology sorted out in order to be a mature Christian.
Great point. It reminds me of Paul writing to the church in Corinth. Paul said they still needed milk and were not ready for meat. They were immature not because of theology but because of their disobedience. I learned a lot about Scripture and really thought I was special until I realized all I had learned was not being practiced. Knowledge of God is pointless if it doesn't change us. In other words, mature Christians are doers of the Word. Theology is very important. The word litterally means The Study of God Theos=God Ology=Study. But the mature Christian practices the truths learned from the study of God. Sounds like you're more mature than you thought sister. 😉 God Bless
@@DanielMotesSEO what a great comment!! And this is so true!! I see so many weighted down and unsettled trying to figure the "correct" theology...And it's like if we would just take a step back, and take a long good look at God's word (I'm visualizing a man looking at and pondering a beautiful painting ) we would see it's right in front of our faces!!! God does not want our sacrifice, He wants our hearts, our devotion. It's all about Him and how we respond to Him! Being a doer of God's word shows our love and heart and devotion to God, and that's what we want to be more concerned with. Not trying to figure out the ways of God, like these 2 smart men did!! That's all I see is men trying to figure out the ways of God!! Not saying it's bad to study theology, like you said the study of God, but to not get so wrapped up in something we can't fully understand that we make a whole "theology" on it, that totally trips people up. It causes people to look to it, rather then to look to God and His word!! It is simple, Go to God, love and honor with all your heart. Kiss the king and devote your attention and your life to Him. God bless
@@jenn5773 Yeah I agree. Theology is important because we are told to worship in Spirit and truth. But getting stuck on one topic isn't wise. Even the prince of preachers (as they called him) Charles Spurgeon was a Calvinist but he wrote a sermon telling people to avoid preachers that ONLY talk about election and predestination. Spurgeon was very balanced. Although he wanted others to see the blessing of election for the believer, he knew the heart of the Gospel was Christ crucified for sinners.
Really good response! Be encouraged that this walk with the LORD is about growth and He knows where you are at every stage of your development and the earnestness you have in getting to know Him. It took me decades to learn - and I hope I have learned - that we must be patient with Him, patient with others, and patient with ourselves. I will not try to throttle a youthful believer like yourself to, "take it slow." No, I encourage you to run as hard and as fast and as far as you can for Christ now before the Enemy discovers ways to hinder you. Learn all you can and shine all you can for Jesus. And don't get discouraged: He told us, "In the World ye shall have tribulation" - He didn't sugar-coat the journey we have ahead of us. He also gave us something to hold on to when He finished His declaration, "Be of good cheer: I have overcome the World." (John 16:33)
🔥🔥🔥 I think that most people that are not fanatics when it comes to Calvinism will land where you are Allen. I myself have the same frame of thought as you do!!! I struggle with the same points of Calvinism you do. I think that overall we should all aim to understand scripture and look at God's writings through the holy spirit and not so much from a man made theological lense. I think when we do this God allows us to struggle with the things HE wants us to struggle with and affirms the things HE wants us to affirm.
And when you do see the scripture through The Holy Spirit lens. You will see the error. I struggle with Calvinism for like a 3 months straight. I thought I was loosing my faith.
It is based on false premises and should be thrown out completely. It is much easier to just read Scripture and form views based on that rather than try to conform to premade false dichotomies and views that are formed by philosophy.
RC Sproul had a great explanation of what “free will” actually is. It is not the ability to choose or not, as if you really can’t use your own will. It _is,_ however, when your will *becomes* freed from your innate, sinful will. He also said, there is really no such thing as being anything other than a 5 point Calvinist. You’re either all 5, or you’re not a Calvinist.
Hi Allen, would you consider checking out Leighton Flowers' latest video addressing this video of yours? He would love to have you on his broadcast to respectfully discuss these issues. Thanks. Here's the link to Leighton's video: ua-cam.com/video/3jgex7-nuE0/v-deo.html
So you are a Pelagian heretic. you deny predestination Ephesians 1:4-6, the book of Roman’s. You are a universalist and believe everything will be saved. You believe if God predestines someone, that person can overpower God and not accept that grace, and you deny once saved, always saved. You sure are one Biblical saint 😒
WOW! You have given me something to look in to. Prior to this video, I had heard the term, “Calvin, Calvinism, Calvinist” but just thought he was a “pre-Billy Graham”. Going off the definitions you lay out, I can’t put myself into a 3,4 or5 point category. I’m a Christian. Jesus Christ & Him crucified, that’s my ism.
I spent a long time working up the courage to listen to this one, because Calvanism has been the root of my spiritual suffering for a decade now. And while I am bitter towards the fruits of Calvanism that took form in my life, I will try to be respectful as I make my counter arguments here. On the whole, Calvanism is not Biblical if you take everything "supporting" it in context, and I think it's a clever deception by Satan using Scripture to slip in this anti-Biblical doctrine as a foundation of the Evangelical church today. Total depravity - the idea that we can't even respond to God because we're spiritually dead. This is wrong, because faith is not a work. In the Bible, faith and works are considered separate things. And if you even think about it logically instead of copping out and appealing to some random mystery we're never meant to understand, if we're unable to respond to God's goodness and the Gospel, then we can't be at fault for it, and therefore God punishing us when He made us incapable of responding is character assassination of God - God looks like a vengeful, spiteful, hateful being, which is exactly what Satan wants us to believe about God. Unconditional election - This point weighs on the discrepancy of the definition of the word "sovereign." Calvanists believe "sovereign" to mean that God controls literally everything, including people sinning. I would disagree, because "sovereign" does not mean "micromanage" or "controlling literally everything." Sovereign can be better described like this: Elon Musk, CEO of Tesla is responsible for how Tesla runs and the direction it goes, it's targets and ultimate fulfillment of those targets. However, Elon Musk isn't soddering the circuit boards together himself. And if someone on the assembly line decides it'd be funny to take a dump on the conveyor belt, does that mean Musk controlled that employee into taking a dump on the conveyor belt? Of course not. God is directing the course of history ultimately to the recreation of Heaven and Earth and the judgment of mankind. But me marrying a non-believer and disobeying God isn't going to thwart God's ultimate plan, but rather my rebellion against Him and rejection of Christ's work will determine whether or not I'm part of it. To believe that God does unconditionally elect means that God created most people to be firewood for Hell, to suffer for all eternity because God not only caused them to sin, but also caused them to not repent and thus gain access to His kingdom. And that means this version of God is cruel. And if this version of God _isn't_ cruel, that means good means evil and evil means good. Limited Atonement - It's the same thing with "unconditional election." Some Calvanists will say that God is under no obligation to save anyone, and even that He saves some is grace beyond comprehension. If that's the case, then how much more so would offering it to everyone who believes? Irresistible Grace - Resisting the grace of God is exactly the thing that leads to our damnation. We're all sinners falling short of the glory of God and we NEED Christ to be saved. It is our rejection of that grace that ultimately leads us to eternal damnation. Perseverance of the Saints - This is the one point I'll agree with, because God knows, if we fall away, how to bring us back. Like Jesus's parable about the one lost sheep of the 99, He will leave the 99 to bring back the one that was lost and will not rest until He does. I've put myself, unknowingly, in Calvanist churches and organizations or about 10 years. And it has been absolutely toxic for me. In times where I struggle, what I experienced was people looking for every way possible to discount your salvation and your genuineness. "Oh, you didn't tithe. Maybe you're not a real Christian. Maybe you weren't really saved. Maybe God didn't elect you. God hates anyone who isn't His real child." And other garbage like that. John Piper, Nic Gibson, Bible Study leaders and so on preached how I'm trash, and I'm trash because God made me to be trash, and he doesn't love me because of it. And no matter how hard I tried to grow in my faith, if God rejected me, I'll still be excluded from His Kingdom. And frankly, that has made me want to quit the faith many times. It's also made me want to kill myself, seeing the pointlessness of trying to be a faithful disciple of Christ when God never wanted me, or most people He created. I came across Dr. Leighton Flowers on UA-cam, who was able to explain this stuff better, and praise God, it's helped me endure the torment brought on by Calvanism and its fruit. Again, I reiterate, I believe Calvanism to be a clever deception Satan slipped into the modern church (especially since it wasn't championed until 1500 years after Christ).
I'm super excited about this video because so many people have asked me, "Brother Allen, are you a Calvinist?" Well, I answer that in this video along with really explaining some of the specifics as it relates to Calvinism. Let me know below what direction, if any, you personally lean. I'm looking forward to reading your comments!
Thanks for making this video brother!
Amen, glory hallelujah to the King.
Hebrews 12:2 👑
I really appreciate these types of videos! Thank you Pastor Allen🙏
Great job, I'm just about in the same mind regarding these points. Are you going to do an arminianism video?
I've come across about Calvinism 6 years ago ., I can't agree to some of it too and with your video I am more clear about it. Also first time to get this TULIP acronym of calvinism. And I can guarantee millions of Christians don't have any idea about this too. Im sure this will give clarity. In regard with election and predestination I think we can study carefully Ephesians 1 and note all Or underline the "in Christ'". , and see what the Holy Spirit teaches us.
“4-point Calvinists? We call those arminians!” -R.C. Sproul 😜
Yesssss!!! I loved that line.
🤪😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣
😂
So if you don't 100% agree with a theologian on all their thoughts, it must mean you 100% agree with some other theologian? Even though there's been thousands of theologians? These guys are not the ultimate authorities on these topics. It seems like such a false dilemma. Just wanted to put that out there. I think Non-Calvinists are very misrepresented by Calvinists.
@@liesbethvanham5443 amen! Check out Mike Winger's expository teachings on Calvanism and why it's unbiblical
...he is not Arminian and I am also on neither side 100 percent. God bless you sister
Talk to Flowers please
Great video man, I'm a calvinist, but don't care much about the terminology I just like to say I'm a Bible believing Christian. Also I'm cool with where anyone lands as long as they have a biblical conviction behind it.
I like to say I believe in The Doctrines of Grace as I don’t follow Calvin, but Christ.
@@armac8158 yeah that’s a solid answer, might steal that!
Nicely stated Jon.
Amen 🙏🏻
@@armac8158 “doctrines of grace” is just a rebranding tactic to deceive more into adopting Calvin’s system. It’s a dishonest way of communicating. We all think we are followers of Christ regardless of theological conviction. Whether you like it or not, Calvin has influenced your theology more than Christ, even if you prefer to call it doctrines of grace.
Thank you brother Allen for breaking things down... Praise God for how he's using you as you exercise your gifts for the Kingdom...Many blessings to you and your family!!!
Take a chance to listen to Leighton Flowers at his UA-cam channel Soteriology 101, as well as William Lane Craig’s Molinist perspective if you haven’t. Because of the current popularity of Calvinistic preachers, organizations, and resources you often don’t come across the best scholars and resources from a more Arminian perspective. If you really care about truth listen to and understand the best presentation of different perspectives before you solidify yourself into one. Love and grace to everyone
Hey there Allen Parr, would you be open to having a conversation with Professor Leighton Flowers of Soteriology101, concerning this topic?
Loved this! Thank you for this educational video about an important topic of theology. I was curious if you would ever do a series on Church history or important people of church history? That would be an awesome series!
Hi Allen, have you heard Leighton Flower's comments. Perhaps you can discuss Calvinism with Jim.
Limited Atonement…I have said it this way…it is not limited in its provision but limited in its application.
Limited atonement
John 6:44
[44]No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.
Hey Allen, great topic for discussion and I fully understand the tension with Limited Atonement and Irresistible Grace. Like yourself I try to avoid labels in general because I find they invariably fall short of the subject matter and in particular with regard to the gospel because I find that every statement requires an explanation to some degree. With that being said I do believe that the atonement which Christ effected on the cross is limited in its scope but not in efficacy. In this sense Christ died for all who believe, and all who believe have received the full pardon on their sins. So the limited nature of the atonement comes into play in this way, that repentance and faith are a requirement for this grace to be credited to the believers account. And since Jesus warns us about the broad gate contrasted by the narrow gate, we can see that from his perspective, the atonement is equated with the narrow gate. And it is therefore limited since we know that the broad gate leads to destruction and few there are who find it. This speaks not to Christs inability to save the whole world, but rather to the worlds rejection of him.
And with regard to the issue of Irresistible grace, it is very closely linked with the perseverance of the saints in this way - all who believe in Jesus Christ do so because God drew us to him by first writing our names in the book of life in eternity past, and then by informing us in our lifetime about that marvelous reality through the bible. As Jesus said "all that the father has given me will come to me" so the Irresistible nature of grace is bound up in the sovereign plan of God and his power to execute that plan. Which is the same reality that affords the believer the assurance that he cannot loose his salvation because it is 100 percent wrapped up in the nature, power and character of God. We could not save ourselves then and we cant save ourselves now. But Christ is able and so he truly is Irresistible both his person and his work. And so anyone who comes to Jesus Christ in faith has demonstrated that his grace is Irresistible by believing him. And our confidence in his power is the basis for our perseverance because he himself keeps us safe as he says in John 10:28-30 "and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My father who has given them to me is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the fathers hand. I and the father are one"
John Calvin was right about the sovereignty of God being essential. I find that all tensions in scripture can be comprehended in the framework of Gods sovereignty who works everything after the counsel of his will. God bless you brother!
Once again EXCELLENT!!! thanks mate.. that cleared allot up for me.
So how do you know you are saved? Do we go through life not knowing whether or not God elected us?
I'm just trying to be a good God fearing woman of God
Thank you for this video
If you are truly SAVED I don't think you can lose your Salvation. Now if you go up to the front just because others did or to show a friend, then you are gonna bust Hell wide open. JMHO.
Tbh I'm with Mike Winger in this one.
I think calvinism is unbiblical, with proper exegesis
Hey Jen, why do you think that?
God bless,
SM
@@ShepherdMinistry i would recommend soteriology101 channel for it. God bless you
I feel for people who are poorly taught and poorly LED everything that Allan is saying is true. This does not make people who are poorly LED not Christians.
I have two comments for you. One, you were very fair in your treatment of calvinism. Two, I would call your attention to Galatins 6 vs. 14. In that verse Paul says that we should glory in nothing but the cross of Christ. My question to you is how could we glory in the cross if some for whom Christ died are now in Hell.
I'd like to see you do a study on how faith is/is not a work. (Romans 4)
Good video. I appreciate your honesty and humility in acknolwedging the journey we are all on in growing in the knowledge of our Lord. I would still say that there inadequate understanding of Calvinism from a historical perspective. First of all, Monergism (Calvinism) goes right back to the early church (Paul, Clement, Augustine), it runs through medievil scholasticism (Lombard, Aquinas) and through to the Reformation (Luther, Clavin, Puritans). Limited Atonement is a must for any Calvinism or Monergistic view... 4 point calvinism destroys the harmony of the Trinity in the work of salvation. Jesus came to do the will of the Father, to die for those who the Father had given Him (chose), Jesus sends the Spirit to apply that work to the Elect. To have Jesus dying for all, puts Him in direct contradiction to the Father and the Spirit, they are essentially made to be in disagreement.
We believers must be very careful to study God's word and then form our convictions from it, rather than to form our convictions first and then try to make God's word say what we want it to say. In my opinion, that is what "labeled" Christians do, whether they call themselves Calvinists, Arminians, Catholics, Lutherans, Baptists, or anything else. We must resist the temptation of trying to make God's word say what we want it to say. Cults twist Scripture for their own agendas. There is no substitute for personally reading and studying the Bible. God promises to give us wisdom when we ask for it. (James 1:5) There is no substitute for pastors teaching the Scriptures to their congregations.
"The perseverance of the saints" (5th point) is something I have thought about, and I've concluded that it is false, if it means that a true Christian will stay faithful to God for his/her entire life. Here's the problem: What degree of "faithful" do we have to stay? We all sin everyday in some way--how much everyday sin is acceptable and allows us to still qualify us for perseverance? "All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" (Romans 3:23), and "Whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it" (James 210). And what if a person is proud of staying "faithful" for his/her entire life--isn't pride a sin? And then read the letter Paul wrote to the Galatians--they gained salvation by their believing in Christ (like John 3:16), but the Judaizers convinced them that they had to keep the Law in order to be saved. And besides that, who are we to say someone is saved or not, if he/she has believed in Christ? (See I Corinthians 4:5.) I could write more, but I won't.
Thank you for your videos, Allen! I appreciate the time, study, prayer, and thought you put into them. Keep leaning on God! (Proverbs 3:5-6)
I lean more calvinist but am wrestling with some points as well.
So, you believe that God arbitrarily creates some people for one reason; to burn for eternity in hell. They can't accept Christ dying on the cross for their sins. God somehow gets glory for making them sinners and sending them to hell. So, from the very start, God tells Adam and Eve, do not eat from the tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, and yet He makes them eat from that very tree, since as per Calvinism, EVERYTHING is God's will. God gives the Ten Commandments, thou shall have no other gods before me, and then makes people worship false gods. God says, do not take God's name in vain, and then makes countless millions do that very thing. God says, do not kill, steal, commit adultery etc and then makes countless millions do the very things He says, don't do. A serial child molesting rapist/murderer is simply doing what God has ordained for him to do? You think of all the evil that is perpetrated on innocent people by evil, wicked, satanically driven individuals, and you want me to believe that God 's will is being carried out? The Bible says, God is holy, righteous, and full of mercy. AND the Bible says, God is love. God's will is not being carried out, at least not in the way Calvinists say. My Bible says, God is not willing that any should perish." and yet, it also has Jesus saying, "Broad is the road that leads to destruction (hell) and many are on it, but straight and narrow is the road that leads to life (Heaven) and few ever find it." So, while God is not willing that any should perish, but that ALL should come to repentance and be saved, many, in fact, most are not. Calvinism has a problem with the Sovereignty of God. They just can't grasp that God, in His Sovereignty, can give man a degree of free will. Hence, Joshua can say, "Choose you this day whom you will serve." In act 17:30 God can call men everywhere to repent, that is , to change their mind about sin and turn from it and turn to God through Christ. Why are we called in the Bible to share the Gospel with the lost and lead them to Christ, if it won't matter; after all, God decides who is saved and who is lost, our preaching won't change that. If our preaching would in some way help them make a decision for Christ, that would imply some degree of free will. You mention how the Bible says, "No one can come to me unless the Spirit draws him..." It doesn't say, no one can come to me unless the Father MAKES him come. Yes, unless the Holy Spirit is working, we can't come to Christ, but when He draws us we are now able to say Yes or NO to His call. Again, that's why and how Joshua can say, "Choose you this day whom you will serve." The Calvinist God seems to be saying one thing in scripture and then going against His own words by making humans do the very things He says for us not to do.
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its called the lambs book of life. God already chose whom he gave the keys to heaven as a free gift. its not of ourselves. before he ever created the heavens an d the stars
I believe two things can be true. I also consider myself a basic Christian.
Hey Bro @THE BEAT By Allen Parr Considering you hold to unconditional election as described in this video, doesn’t it logically follow then limited atonement is true?
If God chose the elect and damned the unelect before the world was, LA has to be true doesn’t it according to TULIP?
Let me know if I’m missing something, as I am not a Calvinist.
But another thing for you to consider is like you said in the video, there are passages which clearly make LA extremely hard to believe. Don't be afraid to reject it or revaluate the whole of TULIP as I've heard Calvinists say before, you accept all or none of Tulip.
God bless.
I don't know. For me, Limited Atonement is clear. And I think John 3:16 is also clear on that. The gift is for anyone/everyone WHO BELIEVES. It doesn't say it's for everyone (period). If in the end you do not believe, then atonement was not for you. But maybe I'm missing something. Now, I'm not saying Jesus' death could not extend to everyone. All I'm saying is that I think it was offered to those who believe only (i.e. God's elect).
There are no didectic verses that say that God made a divine decree before the universe started controlling every molecule and thought in the universe and no one has a choice, even God anymore, Most Calvinists don't realize that this is the heart of their worldview. There would have to be a ton of verses supporting this to overturn the mountain of clear verses that indicate that God and mankind have free wills. Total depravity isn't in the Bible, it is single depravity, the only thing that unbelievers cannot do is Believe scripture. They can do calculus, understand and teach the Bible better than anyone you know, yet somehow don't understand? They understand it AND reject it making them more blame worthy. My experience tells me this isn't true. Ephesians 1 and Romans 9 do not say what you think they say if you were taught by a Calvinist or Arminian, quite the opposite. Romans isn't about the elect vs nonelect but the hardened Jew and the Gentiles.
I’m not a Calvinist. I’m a Disciple of Jesus Christ not a disciple of Man. I believe God was manifest in the Flesh to die for my sins and whosoever believes in Him will not perish and will have everlasting Life ,He Died for my sins not just mine but the whole world’s sins and rose from the dead on the 3rd day paying a death we all rightly deserve, I believe Jesus is coming back to put the devil away for good and I believe our works don’t keep us saved or saved us in the first place,we are kept by the power of the Holy Spirit.
This verse unequivocally vaporizes the idea of limited atonement:
1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world
Even if a Calvinist tries to say that words like "us" or "our" refer to the elect, this verse says NOT for US ONLY, but FOR the sins of the WHOLE WORLD.
Amen, settled.
The problem is that Calvinists don’t care what the Bible says. If their ideology says something different that’s what they adhere to. They see the world through TULIP coloured glasses.
I think that Jesus died for the WHOLE world, that Jesus had the punishment for ALL sin, but the atonement of that price was limited to those who believe. So yes, the efficacy is enough to pay for everyone's, but we are not universalists.
Limited atonement is absolutely wild.
Leighton flowers invited you onto his show and just did a video on your vid. Check it out!
As a Christian that working on my faith and relationship with God, so I have to say I'll just stick with being a Christian stick to the Bible.
Have you imagined that John Calvin, or Calvinists in general, do not stick with the Bible?
The Bible is what made me a five point calvinist.
Dr Leighton Flowers just invited you to be on his channel soteriology 101 to have a discussion about calvinism because of the critique he just did on this video. Here is the link to the critique he did on this video - ua-cam.com/video/3jgex7-nuE0/v-deo.html
Less division... more humility and humbleness in the body of Christ! Looks like Alan and I have these few points and things we wrestle with concluding on in common right now. God bless, and thank you brother Alan!
Yes, Thank You Allen for this much needed video, for that information. I like it that it wasn't a long video. I will need to rewatch it, for it to sink in. God Bless You, Your Family, and Your Ministry.
ua-cam.com/video/DB1YTwkGJKQ/v-deo.html
Absolutely! We need way more kind, respectful discussions around controversial subjects like this!
I knew of two calvinist preachers who turned away two individuals who came forward to accept Jesus as Savior because they deemed they didn't know enough about scripture and thus couldn't be elect. They just wanted Christ's offer of mercy and were turned away. One of the preachers told a small child she might not be one of God's chosen when she came forward to accept Christ. I've never had a good interaction with a calvinist who believes God picks who will and won't go to Heaven.
I am more of a Baptist "traditional" view of soteriology. I am always examining my beliefs in view of the Word and it seems like you are, too. If you have time, check out Soteriology 101's response to your video. A lot of Calvinists don't understand our view and it might enlighten you on another perspective. Thanks.
Good job explaining this. No question, I am NOT a Calvinist.
don‘t let it be an emotional, but rather a theological choice.
@@SavedRickAstley I am emotional about the Gospel.
@@jerryschneider145 So you you believe Calvinists have a false gospel?
@@innovationhq8230 Yes
@@lindsaygraham9115 are people not born in sin or born sinners ?
Hello Brother, can you have a discussion with Leighton Flowers? Born again believers who are not Calvinist can still center around the sovereignty of God.
Hey allen how about a part 2 of this on leighton flowers channel he reviewed this video and invited ya on
Hey brother Parr, thanks for doing this video! Leighton Flowers has produced this response video (ua-cam.com/video/3jgex7-nuE0/v-deo.html) which I hope you'll get a chance to look at. I would love to see you two have a discussion (he has said the same)! Leighton is always super respectful of people who disagree with him :)
Allan, throw out the TULIP, and go talk to the FLOWERS
Calvinism is heresy!
Happy ex-Calvinist here 😅
Hello Alan I really do like some of your contact but I think you should watch this video with Doctor flower even in your videos you said that you are open for you to change your mind.
The only thing I don't agree with you on is Marcus Rogers Jeremiah the prophet warns us about false prophets and I most certainly think that anybody who denies the trinity is not part of the body of Christ.
I really hope Marcus Rogers repent because I don't understand how Marcus can teach from the Bible and deny the nature of God.
Allen, I’d love to have you on my broadcast to have a cordial brotherly discussion about these doctrines if you’d be open to that?
I will never call myself a "Calvinist" or an "Arminian." To do so is to do the same that the Corinthians did: "I follow Peter." or "I follow Apollos." (1 Corinthians 3:4). I follow Christ. I agree in some places with Calvin, just like I agree with my pastor or my God-fearing friends in certain areas but not in others. However, I won't identify myself with Calvin or as a Calvinist. I identify myself in Christ alone.
Why follow man's ideas? TULIP is man's idea. Stick to the Scriptures, not man's ideas. From God's perspective, the new heaven and new earth already exists. John and Paul both saw it. For those of us bound by time, our perspective, we can't comprehend. Faith comes by the hearing of His word. The choice is for everyone. Love requires free will or else it's not love. We learn that from Adam and Eve. It was the whole point of the tree of knowledge.
Man's ideas? It's just interpretation of scripture. Sticking to the scriptures still requires an understanding of it. There's nothing wrong with TULIP.
@@sikid4000 it's still man's ideas. Scripture interprets itself.
@@SherloqX Do you say the same thing about the Trinity? Just because doctrines are given a name for fluidity purpose it doesn't make it man idea.
@@LaCréé.e the word trinity is a description. TULIP is a system. Huge difference.
@@SherloqX Every word in TULIP are also descriptions tho.
Brother Allen, Brother Leighton Flowers says he'd love to discuss this with you on his program.
He made a very respectful response video to yours.
What say you?
I would love to see you have a discussion with Dr. Leighton Flowers from soteriology 101. I think it would be eye opening for you. With brotherly love and respect your born again and saved non-Calvinist brother.
I am coming out of Calvinism. I believe it’s damaging and contradicts all the other scriptures about Christ, His love, dying for the whole world, etc. Saying He only died for some just contradicts so much. Calvinists have a few scriptures they use most taken out of context. So many people on UA-cam like Leighton flowers can explain it better than me. What a dreadful doctrine
Here before the theological war breaks out in the comment section!
Hey brother@Robin
Brother Allen check out soteriology101 with Leighton flowers he has many good videos on the subject of Calvinism and he even said in a video he would love to speak with you on the subject of Calvinism God bless you as you seek for more truth out of his word
I've never heard of a 3-point, 4-point and 5-point Calvinist. I'm watching to the end. Thanks brother.
Same here, so i give God Thanks and Praise, that we have Allen to explain.
ua-cam.com/video/bwMAQfj2iok/v-deo.html
There is no such thing as a 2, 3, or 4 point Calvinist.
Anyone who claims that doesn’t understand what calvinism is.
The foundation of calvinism is point 1 total depravity. All other points are built off point one and support each other. If you reject some points than you reject the entire system. Majority of calvinist have horrible inconsistencies and double standards because they lack the knowledge of what calvinism is.
Calvinism is a horrible doctrine meant to cause division and confusion among believers. This video only perpetuates the problem.
Run away from calvinism never look back.
Brother Allen please have a look at this video. Brother Leighton Flowers would love to have a discussion with you, if you're up for it. God bless you Allen. ❤🙏🏽
ua-cam.com/video/3jgex7-nuE0/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/3jgex7-nuE0/v-deo.html
I appreciate you publicly admitting to having faith in controversial beliefs. That takes guts because you may or may not be wrong. I respect that 100%. However, I believe Calvinism is unbiblical and dangerous for two reasons. The first one is that Calvinism is unbiblical. Ephesians 1:4-5 could be talking about all men and women. God chose us all to be saved instead of animals, angels, etc. People can have free will. Or God chose us to be saved when He (The Word that was with God and the Word that was God) chose to end up dying for us on the cross so that we could be saved. The latter explanation is probably more in tune with the verse, but it explains things easily and logically. The second thing is that Calvinism is dangerous. The devil doesnt want more people to go to heaven. Obviously this is why he targets Christians so much, because it isnt like he can stop us from going to heaven. This is why Calvinism teaches God chooses who will get saved. If God chooses, so some can get saved and some cannot, we shouldnt "go and prech the gospel unto every creature," because if they get saved they get saved, so we dont witness and the devil drags millions more into hell. Im not trying to judge you, and i greatly appreciate you standing up for this if you believe in it, but it is unbiblical and dangerous, and i dont want more christians to get misled. So please, consider this alternate meaning, because souls are dying every day, and they all need the gospel.
13:07
I would agree with this explanation. God choosing only certain people means he doesnt "wish that all would come to repentance."
@@thaissadossantos2126 God foreknew who would come to repentance and would believe in Christ, hence, He predestined, called, justified and glorified.
You should do a video with Leighton Flowers from Soteriology 101. It would be awesome to hear you both discuss T.U.L.I.P.
Would love to hear you discuss this with Dr Leighton Flowers…
This video was a blessing to me. I have recently FINALLY started studying my Bible on a higher lever after being saved for nearly 19 years. I've read it from beginning to end, taken classes, etc. but I've found myself at a crossroad questioning some of the Charismatic practices I learned as a student and leader and what is trully Biblical. I've started studying Calvinism and Arminism and where I stand on these principles, but not as a dogmatic classification of who I am. I just know that I love Jesus, He's my Lord and Savior, and my responsibility as a Believer is to go into the world and make disciples of men. Like you, I admit that I struggle with the same principes of Calvinism that you do. I also believe that once saved, always saved but in the context that if a person has truly become saved and yielded to God, God will "hold" us as we perservere until our final day. Those who turn away from Him and never return, were never saved to begin with. I believe the words of Christ, "And this is the will of God, that I should not lose even one of all those he has given me, but that I should raise them up at the last day." John 6:39
Maybe you will enjoy this
ua-cam.com/video/PM6AGl26Qfo/v-deo.html
“He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.”
1 John 2:2
Dr. Leighton Flowers has a channel called Soteriology 101 which focuses mainly on this debate. He is a former Calvinist. I recently read John Lennox's "Determined to Believe" and thought that was really excellent. The main struggle I have as a non-Calvinist is that it seems like people assume that if you're not Calvinist then the only other option is Arminian. I'm also not Arminian. I think both Calvin and Arminius tried to explain their theology on determinism, free will and sovereignty, but they are not ultimate authorities on these topics and there have been many other theologians since who don't necessarily 100% agree with the entirety of their views.
Would you consider yourself to be a Provisionist?
Spot on. Love way you explain. The thing that gets my back up is that calvanists I have met seem to assume they are the authority. They seem unaware that they are peddling a systematic theology with holes in it and not The bible. 5 points of calvanism and armanisim have flaws becuase both are mans attempts to explain the bible and salvation in a water tight argument. It dosent work. I have major issues with nearly all 5 points of calvanism.
To me the early church didnt focus on petty arguments.
They preached the gospel to All, they assumed All could be saved to the uttermost. They knew all wouldn't be saved but preached as if all could. Thos overemphasis on Gods sovereignity makes Christian's inactive and as John Wesley warned " They fall into the sleep of calvanisin".
Flowers’ view is called Provisionism (God has provided the means for everyone to have the repentance and faith necessary to be saved). That’s what I believe. I also recommend this channel.
Flowers is an absolute mess.
@@innovationhq8230 let's not just go around making claims without providing reasons.
Yes, I'm almost exactly where you are, brother Allen, and I have been follower of Christ for 45 years now. I've taken undergraduate and graduate level theology classes, have a Master of Divinity degree, and I was a pastor for 10 years. Yet I still find myself in the same predicament you're voicing here. The limited atonement I keep vacillating on what the scriptures teach. Today I'm leaning more toward limited atonement, ask me next week I may not be so sure 😉. I have a hunch there are many like us on this point. But I have no doubt when we see Jesus it will all be clear! For sure, none of us have it all figured out, nor will any of us be 100% right on 100% of theology. But that doesn't stop me from continuing to learn and seek to understand and grow in knowing the Lord. We are all in process, and as long as we are heading in the right direction, well, that's what I believe matters most.
W. M., I can empathize with you. Rather than going on here, I'd be curious to see what you think of my response to Allen's video and questions. 👋🎶
"Today I'm leaning more toward limited atonement" Well if it turns out you are not elected, your 45 years and your Pastoring etc etc have been a complete waste of time. That's what you are in effect saying.
@@davewatson2124 ......Watch what you say
@@davewatson2124 no, I know I'm elected, I'm just not sure how from God's perspective.
@@jayheinz4624 I would, except there's to date 764 comments and I don't have the time to look for yours 😅
I consider myself a plain old Christian. LOL. This was so helpful to me. You broke down Calvinism, making it understandable. Thank you
Great video. As a soteriology 101 regular, It'd be great if you could contact Leighton Flowers. He would love to have you on his show to discuss these things. God bless
@@jonanthony3913 Yes...it's a good thing
Appreciate your channel Allen. You should have Leighton Flowers on your show. Interview him on your show. That would be a great talk, you are both cordial, kind and interested in thinking!
@@jonanthony3913 he's a kinder gentler version of James White with a different take on what God's plan for salvation actually is.
@@jonanthony3913 Example of misrepresenting Calvinism? Examples of the slander?
@@jonanthony3913 I see, but do you have any specific example of #1 misrepresenting Calvinism? Do you have any examples?
I also, don't see the "slander" (the action or crime of making a false spoken statement damaging to a person's reputation.) examples either but we can stick with #1 for now. Thanks brother.
I'm so shocked 😲 I've been following Allen par for some years. Never would I imagine he was a Calvinist. He's a good teacher, but I I didn't always agree with his theology for the past few years I've been watching him. I do agree with many things that he teaches, but I guess now I understand why something always felt different. I pray God keep revealing His truth to Allen so that he can find better clarity for the things he is wrestling with and doesn't understand. God bless
Your spot on! Sadly he is leading many into a false doctrine
I spent a long time working up the courage to listen to this one, because Calvanism has been the root of my spiritual suffering for a decade now. And while I am bitter towards the fruits of Calvanism that took form in my life, I will try to be respectful as I make my counter arguments here. On the whole, Calvanism is not Biblical if you take everything "supporting" it in context, and I think it's a clever deception by Satan using Scripture to slip in this anti-Biblical doctrine as a foundation of the Evangelical church today.
Total depravity - the idea that we can't even respond to God because we're spiritually dead. This is wrong, because faith is not a work. In the Bible, faith and works are considered separate things. And if you even think about it logically instead of copping out and appealing to some random mystery we're never meant to understand, if we're unable to respond to God's goodness and the Gospel, then we can't be at fault for it, and therefore God punishing us when He made us incapable of responding is character assassination of God - God looks like a vengeful, spiteful, hateful being, which is exactly what Satan wants us to believe about God.
Unconditional election - This point weighs on the discrepancy of the definition of the word "sovereign." Calvanists believe "sovereign" to mean that God controls literally everything, including people sinning. I would disagree, because "sovereign" does not mean "micromanage" or "controlling literally everything." Sovereign can be better described like this: Elon Musk, CEO of Tesla is responsible for how Tesla runs and the direction it goes, it's targets and ultimate fulfillment of those targets. However, Elon Musk isn't soddering the circuit boards together himself. And if someone on the assembly line decides it'd be funny to take a dump on the conveyor belt, does that mean Musk controlled that employee into taking a dump on the conveyor belt? Of course not. God is directing the course of history ultimately to the recreation of Heaven and Earth and the judgment of mankind. But me marrying a non-believer and disobeying God isn't going to thwart God's ultimate plan, but rather my rebellion against Him and rejection of Christ's work will determine whether or not I'm part of it. To believe that God does unconditionally elect means that God created most people to be firewood for Hell, to suffer for all eternity because God not only caused them to sin, but also caused them to not repent and thus gain access to His kingdom. And that means this version of God is cruel. And if this version of God _isn't_ cruel, that means good means evil and evil means good.
Limited Atonement - It's the same thing with "unconditional election." Some Calvanists will say that God is under no obligation to save anyone, and even that He saves some is grace beyond comprehension. If that's the case, then how much more so would offering it to everyone who believes?
Irresistible Grace - Resisting the grace of God is exactly the thing that leads to our damnation. We're all sinners falling short of the glory of God and we NEED Christ to be saved. It is our rejection of that grace that ultimately leads us to eternal damnation.
Perseverance of the Saints - This is the one point I'll agree with, because God knows, if we fall away, how to bring us back. Like Jesus's parable about the one lost sheep of the 99, He will leave the 99 to bring back the one that was lost and will not rest until He does.
I've put myself, unknowingly, in Calvanist churches and organizations or about 10 years. And it has been absolutely toxic for me. In times where I struggle, what I experienced was people looking for every way possible to discount your salvation and your genuineness. "Oh, you didn't tithe. Maybe you're not a real Christian. Maybe you weren't really saved. Maybe God didn't elect you. God hates anyone who isn't His real child." And other garbage like that. John Piper, Nic Gibson, Bible Study leaders and so on preached how I'm trash, and I'm trash because God made me to be trash, and he doesn't love me because of it. And no matter how hard I tried to grow in my faith, if God rejected me, I'll still be excluded from His Kingdom. And frankly, that has made me want to quit the faith many times. It's also made me want to kill myself, seeing the pointlessness of trying to be a faithful disciple of Christ when God never wanted me, or most people He created.
I came across Dr. Leighton Flowers on UA-cam, who was able to explain this stuff better, and praise God, it's helped me endure the torment brought on by Calvanism and its fruit. Again, I reiterate, I believe Calvanism to be a clever deception Satan slipped into the modern church (especially since it wasn't championed until 1500 years after Christ). It's been so toxic to me, I will never go to a church again that is lead by those pushing Calvanism as it's main driving belief.
You pretty much nailed it
Irresistible Grace simply explains that those who are truly saved, they have not resisted the grace of God. That's just it. Real Elect of Christ will not resist Christ's grace. They may resist Christ for a while, but they have never truly resisted that grace in their lifetime, so they are saved. Only the damned will resist it. I'm still struggling with the idea of unconditional election, but only God knows the ultimate answers to our deepest theological questions. I rest my case here.
Also, Limited Atonement posits that the atoning blood that washes our sins only applies to those who accepted Jesus. Those who are damned were never atoned by the blood of Jesus. It's also called definite atonement, if one is baffled why Christ's sacrifice is only limited.
Christ's sacrifice is yes, enough for the whole world but the way it worked out is that few have accepted it, so yes, it's limited atonement.
12:34 - “I don’t like to categorize myself by a particular theologian. I like to categorize myself as a basic Christian.”
I’m the same way! I agree with Calvin, Arminius, and other theologians as far as they agree with the Scriptures.
The problem is conditional salvation Arminians are heretics.
@@johntrevett2944 why? And how. If I understand conditional salvation is that God extend is grace of Salvation and we can choose to respond to it or not right?
@@citamora Conditional security is acceptable only to those who also believe that they somehow contributed to their salvation in the first place (which Arminian theology logically implies). But this flies in the face of such passages as Ephesians 2:8-9: “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith-and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-not by works, so that no one can boast,” which clearly assert that we contribute absolutely nothing to our salvation; even the faith necessary to receive the gift of grace, is itself a gift of God.
On the other hand, Arminianism gives man a reason to boast in the end. If by my cooperation with the Spirit of God I remain faithful to the end, I can boast (a little) about how I was able to stay the course and finish the race. However, there will be no boasting in heaven except to boast in the Lord (1 Corinthians 1:31). The doctrine of conditional security is not biblical; the Bible is quite clear that we persevere because God preserves us.
The ability to chose, could be a result of grace. I don't like the idea of some being incapable of coming to salvation.
@@biglewlc12 Romans 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
John 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Hey Allen, this video has been critiqued by Leighton Flowers over at Soteriology101.
Leighton Flower did a broadcast commenting on this video. It would be great to see a discussion between the two of you. Here's Leighton's broadcast: ua-cam.com/video/3jgex7-nuE0/v-deo.html
Brother Allan, I believe the problem with Calvinism is that some of the terms are correct (for example yes I agree with total depravity) , in Calvinism these things often mean something different other Christians (by the way there’s more than just Calvinism and Arminianism). False dichotomy fallacy is VERY prevalent with many Calvinist teachers. The verses you have as proof texts for Calvinism all have other non Calvinist interpretations which in my opinion flow better with the whole canon of scripture and character of God. You missed the entire divine determinism of Calvinism as well which really makes the entire system fall apart. Soteriology 101 has TONS of videos on all of the things you described including going through tulip. Calvinism…no no way. Still Christians , many good folks affirm Calvinism but there is a reason it does out all the time…
I’ve listened to you long enough, no you aren’t a Calvinist, don’t get caught in the wave…
Great response, thank you. As you mentioned, there are very sound and plausible interpretations of these passages that can be used in a non-Calvinist manner. Ultimately I think these manmade systems that are devised to attempt to understand the way God's infinite nature works are just exercises in futility, and the truth is a composite of more than one angle.
Provisionism is a joke
@@innovationhq8230 then dismantle it for us please. We’re waiting
Whenever someone asks me this, I say I am a Christian with a reformed baptist theology. I don’t follow John Calvin, I follow Christ and try to live by the Bible day by day
Amen 🙏🏽
Why not just tell the truth though? You know reformed Baptist theology comes from Calvin himself. We all follow Christ, just be up front about where your beliefs come from, it’s only for the goal of winning someone to your theological stance to hide Calvinism with a different name.
Do you believe in free will to choose to believe in Jesus?
Which is what Calvin did, Paul said follow me as I follow Christ. If you live by the bible you are following the writers that was inspired by God, so was Augustine, Calvin, Martin Luther, Paul etc.
@@nesto2851 Jesus said no man can to me unless my father sends them. John 6:37. "All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away." ...
John 6:44,65
John 15:16.
Acts 13:48
Romans 9:16,22,23.
Galatians 1:15,16
Ephesians 1:4,5
II Thessalonians 2:13
Would love to see you have a conversation with Leighton Flowers. If your interested in seeing how the scripture may not actually teach Calvinism.
Hey bro, you should check out Dr. Leighton Flowers response to your video. God bless . You could contact him
Thank you Allen, I appreciate your content. Soteriology 101 / Leighton Flowers does a good job with this subject in my opinion. Love you.
Dr Leighton Flowers response to this video is here, hope Allen replies, ua-cam.com/video/3jgex7-nuE0/v-deo.html
Thanks Allen, didn’t knew what Calvinism was before now. From your explanation, I consider myself not a Calvinist, but a follower of Christ. You are doing great, I have learnt a lot from you about what it takes to be a good and faithful Christian. God bless
ua-cam.com/video/DB1YTwkGJKQ/v-deo.html
Yes, this was a very good introduction for the topic. It is definitely good to just be a Christian, but it is also good to understand the deeper issues in the Calvinism vs Arminianism debate! God bless!
Alan I’d love to see you and Leighton Flowers have a dialog on this issue. I know he’d like that too and he’d be very respectful. Soteriology 101.
If everything happens according to God's will as per Calvinism, then a lot of really evil things happen, that God has called sin. This is ridiculous. God tells Adam and Eve, don't eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil and yet He has ordained that they will. Calvinism seems to be making God a liar, because He is telling them to not do something that He knows full well (according to Calvinism) that they have no choice but to do. We can go on and on; if God causes everything that happens, He is causing murder, rape, incest, drug use, drunkenness, lying stealing, sexual immorality, false religions, Satan worship, pedophilia, etc. The God of the Bible is love and calls us NOT to do all these things. Why would He turn around and make us do the very same things He tells us not to do? The Calvinist seems to sink on their own idea of the sovereignty of God. They don't seem to be able to acknowledge that God IN HIS SOVEREIGNTY can choose to give us some degree of free will. That's why there are so many scriptures saying "Whosoever will, may..." Scripture clearly gives us a choice. Follow Christ or not. Repent or not. Obey scripture or not. I believe, based on scripture, that God has given us choices with eternal repercussions, Heaven or Hell. That's why Joshua said choose you this day whom you will serve. I can by God's grace and the help of the Holy Spirit say, "As for me and my household, we will serve the Lord." By the way, yes, it is true; we can't come to Christ unless the Father draws us, but that says "draws us" not "makes" us a believer. God opens us up to the Good news and then we either say yes or no. And as far as predestination, I have no problem with it based on God's foreknowledge.
Here are two Scriptures below, which destroy the belief of those who say we must believe Jesus is GOD, or those who believe in the false doctrine of Calvinism.:
*but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, THE SON OF GOD,* and that by believing you may have life in his name. John 20:31.
*Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living GOD.* Matthew 16:16. And that by believing, you may have life, in his name. John 20:31.
Yo. I, like you, also struggled with limited atonement when it was really new to Reformed theology. It made me despondent. The idea that there is no hope outside of God's Grace made me very sad. After dwelling on it for a while and praying about it, I heard an argument made by John McArthur that helped me a little. But it wasn't until I looked to the old testament that I found my answer. The destruction of the world through the flood and the pruning of Sodom & Gomorrah put into perspective for me. It isn't that God wants to just flippantly kill his people. It's just that evil must be killed for goodness to prevail. Both instances were used to bring salvation to the rest of the world by seeing the consequences of their sin. And instead of being sad about it, I should be grateful that the Lord saw fit to spare me.
@cdr 777 I like how you put this!.. some similarities to my response I posted. And if you don't mind me adding, Dr Andrew Farley. He answers these above questions so well on his life call in radio show. It's on at 7: 03 Central everyday. 👋🎶
Michael, I can sympathize with what you're saying.. rather than me going on here, check out my previous comment to Allen and let me know what you think. 👋🎶
That's a good point. However listen to what God says not John Mccarthur. The scripture says God has no pleasure in the death of the wicked but rather he should turn and live. See Gods word says God does not want the death of the wicked, God gives them the opportunity to.repent.
The huge issue with calvanism is they believe God created people with the intention of sending them to Hell. Augustine believed this. See how far removed this idea is from Gods will.
@@jasonpellegrini7148 good points Jason!!! And also about Augustine.. and if you also look at where the concept of hell came from, you'll see Augustine and early church fathers took it from the teachings of Socrates and Plato.. you'll see Turtullian it's the one that spearheaded and put together the concept of a fiery hell, Hades down under the ground.. check out Edward fudges videos on this.. I think you'll find them very interesting.
@cdr 777 Absolutely great point!🙏🏾
Thank you for the video this is such a great topic in understanding who we are in Christ. For example, I am strongly against Calvinism, I look at it and say "how can anyone believe this?" Yet, I fear that so many people allow their passions to turn to anger toward their brothers, either who are or who are not Calvinist. When that anger against the viewpoint is in our hearts we are tempted, when we meet someone who follows one way or the other we may transfer that anger towards them then we sin. We are called to love one another, Calvinism is debatable, love for your brother and sister in Christ is not. In fact as an avid non-Calvinist I have found great value in Calvinism. Why? Because I have spent more time in the Word because of it, challenged to think critically about what Scripture says. Whether or not I agree or disagree with Calvinism, if we all agreed we would spend less time thinking critically about what the Bible says. Thinking critically about one thing teaches us to think critically about the central issues of Christianity so that we can defend what we believe with reason. Furthermore, we are tested against temptation, do we allow our pride in our viewpoint to allow us to disobey the Word of God and murder our brothers and sisters in faith? (This can go with eschatology too). Finally, when you see a debate on Calvinism, when they are of one mind in terms of respect and faith in Christ, it can be truly edifying to study the Scripture and think critically on the subject, taking into account what both sides argue (not argue in a bad way).
So would you say faith is not a gift from God?
@@ShepherdMinistry hmm, my point wasn't to debate Calvinism, but to demonstrate how we can become angry at our brothers for not agreeing with our theology, when there is Biblical arguments supporting both sides. When we explore the topic of Calvinism we gain a deeper understanding of the Word regardless of what side you take. When we do debate the issue we are driven to study even deeper. But, when we are angry because someone disagrees we sin. Please keep in mind I know there is heresy, I do not think either side is heretical when they follow Biblical principals. But, some heretical doctrines do fall stray from both sides.
I used inflammatory words to demonstrate how people become angry about it and can easily be tempted into sin. I could easily become angry because I believe strongly, but that is my pride.
I totally disagree with calvanism and especially their view of if you don't believe in calvanism you're automatically an arminian.
The term Calvinist and arminian are no where in the Bible.
Therefore it's false teachings ADDING to the word of God.
No TULIP verbatim anywhere in the Bible either. Calvanism came straight from the pits of hell and will drag anyone to outer darkness who become ensnared in it's lies.
@@TheLegacy87 So Calvinism is a salvation issue to you?
Never heard of this Calverism? I Know and believe in God, The Son and the holy Spirit! Keeping it simple!
Calvanism is an evil doctrine from man and preaches another Jesus and I don't wish to know the Jesus of calvanism but I know the real son of God who died for the sins of the world. Whosoever shall call upon the name of the LORD shall be saved.
Keep looking into this doctrine before holding to it, Long story short, if you dont hold to one of these points you cant hold any of them, no such thing as a 4 pointer or 3 point calvinist, Also if you are a Calvinist and you believe God desires the eternal punishment of the majority of all men before they have done anything good or bad,(this is what Calvinism teaches) then you also should desire the same thing as this is how we are taught to pray, Praying for the will of God. Any calvinist that does not desire the eternal punishment for the majority of men before they have done anything good or bad have set them self to be more compassionate or some how more loving than the way that they believe God to be. side note the entire Arminian and Calvinist dichotomy is false, read the bible dont get sucked into the false dichotomy.
And just some thought on why you can drop part of TUILP off, if you dont confirmed limited attornment then you are saying Jesus died for people that the Father has unconditionally predestined for hell. So why did the Son suffer for those He knew the Father had already condemned. Also its interesting that you say you confirm Total depravity but not sure about irresistible grace, If man is totally deprived as calvinist define it then by nature man will always resist the grace of God, basically this goes for all points can drop one of them. Also i agree with the P but not for the same reason as a Calvinist.
Nice breakdown of the subject. I remember my first pastorate had a few Calvinists who held strongly to their positions. As a pastor in a new church I had to carefully navigate the TULIP land mine. Ultimately it was about agreeing on the essentials.
Yo Mr. Parr! You were called out by the originator of the Provisionist movement! Leighton Flowers did a whole show on you. Like you, he is a loving brother in Christ who I would pay to see you discuss and explore Calvinism with. He is an expert Soteriologist and very VERY kind, especially to brothers who are filled with the Spirit 😃
Thumbs if you'd like to see a cross-over video!
As someone who went down that rabbit hole to its conclusion, I’d answer anyone who claims to be a Calvinist who doesn’t accept all 5 points is not actually a Calvinist but a person wrestling with the brainwashing they have received from Calvinist teachings that utilize circular logic and redefining terms, words and examples in the scriptures to fit within the Calvinistic doctrine.
The scripture viewed without going through the lens of Calvinism tells a different story that doesn’t have to wrestle with some how through Devine mystery God is deterministically and arbitrarily the author of human evils and not responsible himself for doing so. I could go on but, let’s just say there’s often a false dichotomy trotted out as a straw man to point to and claim victory. The choice isn’t Calvinism or Arminianism as I see it. Though if you must entertain such a false dichotomy, standing in the middle of them is the best place to stand.
P.S. I in no way deny God’s sovereignty, I just believe he’s big enough to accomplish his desires as he desires them in spite of granting humanity the free will (not as Calvinist teach it but as commonly understood) to choose.
This is accurate, in my view and is also my take on it. God bless ya.
Amen, I have friends who are Calvinist and I can see the falsity in it but they don’t see it, seems like they have been borderline brainwashed.
Thank you brother for this.. The last part really helped me understand it much more!
Yeup! I feel the same bro 🙏🏼
@@suavesoto7393
Poop then because I shortened some as trying not to stir up unnecessary conflict, which part? Is it still there I can put it back if it’s helpful to people I have a bit of soreness still from past experiences within a OPC so I’m trying to be careful to not let that influence what I say.
Great video, but I'm one of the few here that rejects Calvinism. I'm a Fundamentalist till I die.
This is a really great video, delivered with courage, care and clarity. Thank you for putting this all so very well, without tangling up the theology and maintaining a strong focus throughout. I consider myself, perhaps like yourself in some ways, a humble follower of Jesus, that is, a simple Christian. I am not a huge fan of simplistic labels so much - theology isn't about picking a football team, you know!! So I do agree with some of the Calvinist five points - but firmly reject the others. I am no TULIP - more of a TP kind of guy!. Some may even say that I embrace aspects of Arminianism - but that's also not so straightforward either. I find WLC's position of Molinism quite interesting, but there are plenty of bones to pick there. I suggest that every theologian is wrong about some aspect of theology - no one is perfect, apart from God, of course. I love your honesty, but we probably don't entirely share an identical theology in every respect, sir!
GREAT SEGMENT! I am Reformed in my theology, which means I agree with the five points. But my Christian life didn’t start out this way. I began as a free-will Arminian. After years of careful study and then accepting/believing what the Word says, I am now firmly convinced (in heart and mind) that the Reformed view is the “most” biblical.
Like you Allen, I do not use or embrace the label of being a Calvinists. Simply because I have reached the same conclusions as John Calvin does not make me one of his disciples. I frequently challenge those who want to wear the title of Calvinist instead of “Christian.” John Calvin never saved anyone, nor could he ever be the propitiation for anyone’s sin, so I believe it dishonors the Father and the Son for the redeemed to call themselves by any other name. I believe a Christian referring to him/herself by their denomination or by their hero is a precisely what Paul condemned in 1 Corinthians 3:4-9.
“Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved” (Acts 4:12).
Love your ministry! Keep up the good work.
Amen amen brother..!! Totally agree with you.. it’s so sad how so so many brothers and sisters don’t see it that way.. I truly believe that the Father just shakes his head with displeasure… seriously… we break his heart enough those who are in rebellion and living wicked lifestyles … to then see the church fight and argue.. 🤦🏽♂️.. God be with you brother..!!!
Amen!!
I'm also reformed and don't believe in labels or doctrine or theology as much as I care about Jesus Christ
Do you accept the many other aspects of Reformed theology since it's much more then just TULIP?
Predeterminism entered the church in the 5th century from Augustine, a former Stoic and Manachian Gnostic. The early church fathers taught against this doctrine for 4 centuries before Augustine.
Appreciate the video. Honestly this was one of the things I struggled with in seminary and was pretty discouraging at times as my classmates tried to put labels on me. I really didn't appreciate it nor did I like it. I'm like you and just consider myself a Christian who is growing in his faith and trying to discern what God says in his word. I shy away from proclaiming I'm a calvinist in any way because that seems to indicate you're a follower of John Calvin. Haha. There are things I agree with in Calvinism and there are things I agree with in armenianism so I guess I'm a hybrid. Haha. I just love the Lord and I want to try to look like him every day as he teaches me more about who he is. Thanks for your consistency
I think the issue even from a non seminary student is if God knows the future then from the human POV it looks like predestination. I think in reality both points exist as clearly God knows the future but He is definitely holding you to your actions and beliefs.
I think being classic liberals in democracies we have issues with free will violations in the Bible but the story of Pharaoh having his heart hardened against Moses and the Devil going into Judas seems to heavily imply there are at least two examples of people having their free will over rode by God or Satan. Now in both cases you can argue their souls were primed for such an event but still it occurred. That would imply Pharaoh would have backed down sooner and that Judas wouldn't have betrayed Jesus to the point He'd have been killed.
As for predestination, Jesus knows Judas will betray Him and calls Judas out and also tells Peter that he will betray Jesus 3 times. Now it is heavily implied Judas is in Hell and Peter is in Heaven, so Jesus knew what both men would do and what would happen in the long run to both men for their actions.
I think it comes down to what kind of Christian you are, if you came in for the 2 hour long sessions of music and Ned Flanders version of Christianity you feel Calvinism is wrong but yet you can't explain how God knows the future much less why Satan would continue his pointless battle against a God who's own angel Michael is still stronger than you. On the other side the Calvinists do sound a little too harsh and it's a bit esoteric of a point that will go over most people's heads because they don't think about how God knows the future. I would go as far to say that while I agree with a lot of Calvinism it was probably an idea that didn't need to be brought up because it scares off Ned Flanders Christians if they think about it.
Also I would argue that one of my issues as a protestant in general is overly committing to ideas to the point we split off from each other pointlessly. If that contention wasn't there America would have at least specified to be a Christian nation.
Thank you for your honesty because it has encouraged me to just take a breather! It’s so easy for younger Christians like myself to try and create this neatly packaged theology feeling as if we need all of our theology sorted out in order to be a mature Christian.
Great point. It reminds me of Paul writing to the church in Corinth. Paul said they still needed milk and were not ready for meat. They were immature not because of theology but because of their disobedience. I learned a lot about Scripture and really thought I was special until I realized all I had learned was not being practiced. Knowledge of God is pointless if it doesn't change us. In other words, mature Christians are doers of the Word. Theology is very important. The word litterally means The Study of God Theos=God Ology=Study. But the mature Christian practices the truths learned from the study of God. Sounds like you're more mature than you thought sister. 😉 God Bless
ua-cam.com/video/DB1YTwkGJKQ/v-deo.html
@@DanielMotesSEO what a great comment!! And this is so true!! I see so many weighted down and unsettled trying to figure the "correct" theology...And it's like if we would just take a step back, and take a long good look at God's word (I'm visualizing a man looking at and pondering a beautiful painting ) we would see it's right in front of our faces!!! God does not want our sacrifice, He wants our hearts, our devotion. It's all about Him and how we respond to Him! Being a doer of God's word shows our love and heart and devotion to God, and that's what we want to be more concerned with. Not trying to figure out the ways of God, like these 2 smart men did!! That's all I see is men trying to figure out the ways of God!! Not saying it's bad to study theology, like you said the study of God, but to not get so wrapped up in something we can't fully understand that we make a whole "theology" on it, that totally trips people up. It causes people to look to it, rather then to look to God and His word!! It is simple, Go to God, love and honor with all your heart. Kiss the king and devote your attention and your life to Him.
God bless
@@jenn5773 Yeah I agree. Theology is important because we are told to worship in Spirit and truth. But getting stuck on one topic isn't wise. Even the prince of preachers (as they called him) Charles Spurgeon was a Calvinist but he wrote a sermon telling people to avoid preachers that ONLY talk about election and predestination. Spurgeon was very balanced. Although he wanted others to see the blessing of election for the believer, he knew the heart of the Gospel was Christ crucified for sinners.
Really good response! Be encouraged that this walk with the LORD is about growth and He knows where you are at every stage of your development and the earnestness you have in getting to know Him. It took me decades to learn - and I hope I have learned - that we must be patient with Him, patient with others, and patient with ourselves.
I will not try to throttle a youthful believer like yourself to, "take it slow." No, I encourage you to run as hard and as fast and as far as you can for Christ now before the Enemy discovers ways to hinder you. Learn all you can and shine all you can for Jesus. And don't get discouraged: He told us, "In the World ye shall have tribulation" - He didn't sugar-coat the journey we have ahead of us. He also gave us something to hold on to when He finished His declaration, "Be of good cheer: I have overcome the World." (John 16:33)
🔥🔥🔥 I think that most people that are not fanatics when it comes to Calvinism will land where you are Allen. I myself have the same frame of thought as you do!!! I struggle with the same points of Calvinism you do.
I think that overall we should all aim to understand scripture and look at God's writings through the holy spirit and not so much from a man made theological lense. I think when we do this God allows us to struggle with the things HE wants us to struggle with and affirms the things HE wants us to affirm.
And when you do see the scripture through The Holy Spirit lens. You will see the error. I struggle with Calvinism for like a 3 months straight. I thought I was loosing my faith.
It is based on false premises and should be thrown out completely. It is much easier to just read Scripture and form views based on that rather than try to conform to premade false dichotomies and views that are formed by philosophy.
RC Sproul had a great explanation of what “free will” actually is. It is not the ability to choose or not, as if you really can’t use your own will. It _is,_ however, when your will *becomes* freed from your innate, sinful will. He also said, there is really no such thing as being anything other than a 5 point Calvinist. You’re either all 5, or you’re not a Calvinist.
Dr. Flowers did a great response to this… you should go on his channel and talk this through
VERSE OF THE DAY: God blesses those who are merciful, for they will be shown mercy. ~Matthew 5:7
Hi Allen, would you consider checking out Leighton Flowers' latest video addressing this video of yours? He would love to have you on his broadcast to respectfully discuss these issues. Thanks. Here's the link to Leighton's video: ua-cam.com/video/3jgex7-nuE0/v-deo.html
This video confirmed to me that Calvinism twists the gospel to what its not, heretics
Watch Soteriology101 on UA-cam. He destroys Calvinism and proves why it destroys the holiness of God and its unbiblical.
T.U.L.I.P...all of these points are unbiblical.
So you are a Pelagian heretic. you deny predestination Ephesians 1:4-6, the book of Roman’s. You are a universalist and believe everything will be saved. You believe if God predestines someone, that person can overpower God and not accept that grace, and you deny once saved, always saved. You sure are one Biblical saint 😒
Even so, I can see why someone would believe in T since some Christians already teach original sin.
Ok thanks for your insightful and thoughtful response
WOW! You have given me something to look in to. Prior to this video, I had heard the term, “Calvin, Calvinism, Calvinist” but just thought he was a “pre-Billy Graham”. Going off the definitions you lay out, I can’t put myself into a 3,4 or5 point category. I’m a Christian. Jesus Christ & Him crucified, that’s my ism.
Amen! ✝️
I spent a long time working up the courage to listen to this one, because Calvanism has been the root of my spiritual suffering for a decade now. And while I am bitter towards the fruits of Calvanism that took form in my life, I will try to be respectful as I make my counter arguments here. On the whole, Calvanism is not Biblical if you take everything "supporting" it in context, and I think it's a clever deception by Satan using Scripture to slip in this anti-Biblical doctrine as a foundation of the Evangelical church today.
Total depravity - the idea that we can't even respond to God because we're spiritually dead. This is wrong, because faith is not a work. In the Bible, faith and works are considered separate things. And if you even think about it logically instead of copping out and appealing to some random mystery we're never meant to understand, if we're unable to respond to God's goodness and the Gospel, then we can't be at fault for it, and therefore God punishing us when He made us incapable of responding is character assassination of God - God looks like a vengeful, spiteful, hateful being, which is exactly what Satan wants us to believe about God.
Unconditional election - This point weighs on the discrepancy of the definition of the word "sovereign." Calvanists believe "sovereign" to mean that God controls literally everything, including people sinning. I would disagree, because "sovereign" does not mean "micromanage" or "controlling literally everything." Sovereign can be better described like this: Elon Musk, CEO of Tesla is responsible for how Tesla runs and the direction it goes, it's targets and ultimate fulfillment of those targets. However, Elon Musk isn't soddering the circuit boards together himself. And if someone on the assembly line decides it'd be funny to take a dump on the conveyor belt, does that mean Musk controlled that employee into taking a dump on the conveyor belt? Of course not. God is directing the course of history ultimately to the recreation of Heaven and Earth and the judgment of mankind. But me marrying a non-believer and disobeying God isn't going to thwart God's ultimate plan, but rather my rebellion against Him and rejection of Christ's work will determine whether or not I'm part of it. To believe that God does unconditionally elect means that God created most people to be firewood for Hell, to suffer for all eternity because God not only caused them to sin, but also caused them to not repent and thus gain access to His kingdom. And that means this version of God is cruel. And if this version of God _isn't_ cruel, that means good means evil and evil means good.
Limited Atonement - It's the same thing with "unconditional election." Some Calvanists will say that God is under no obligation to save anyone, and even that He saves some is grace beyond comprehension. If that's the case, then how much more so would offering it to everyone who believes?
Irresistible Grace - Resisting the grace of God is exactly the thing that leads to our damnation. We're all sinners falling short of the glory of God and we NEED Christ to be saved. It is our rejection of that grace that ultimately leads us to eternal damnation.
Perseverance of the Saints - This is the one point I'll agree with, because God knows, if we fall away, how to bring us back. Like Jesus's parable about the one lost sheep of the 99, He will leave the 99 to bring back the one that was lost and will not rest until He does.
I've put myself, unknowingly, in Calvanist churches and organizations or about 10 years. And it has been absolutely toxic for me. In times where I struggle, what I experienced was people looking for every way possible to discount your salvation and your genuineness. "Oh, you didn't tithe. Maybe you're not a real Christian. Maybe you weren't really saved. Maybe God didn't elect you. God hates anyone who isn't His real child." And other garbage like that. John Piper, Nic Gibson, Bible Study leaders and so on preached how I'm trash, and I'm trash because God made me to be trash, and he doesn't love me because of it. And no matter how hard I tried to grow in my faith, if God rejected me, I'll still be excluded from His Kingdom. And frankly, that has made me want to quit the faith many times. It's also made me want to kill myself, seeing the pointlessness of trying to be a faithful disciple of Christ when God never wanted me, or most people He created.
I came across Dr. Leighton Flowers on UA-cam, who was able to explain this stuff better, and praise God, it's helped me endure the torment brought on by Calvanism and its fruit. Again, I reiterate, I believe Calvanism to be a clever deception Satan slipped into the modern church (especially since it wasn't championed until 1500 years after Christ).
Great points! I also don't agree with Calvinism, and will study more to disprove it🙏🏾thank you for these points too❤