Only attacking moves is actually generally the better strategy when trying to beat the game. Look at pokemon challenges or hard nuzlockes. Support moves are rarely used because you are usually better off attacking. Very different from competitive
5:21 As if that wasn’t bad enough, no message is printed when Taunt’s effect wears off in Gen 3, so unless you’re watching the battle over like a hawk, you might make the mistake of Taunting on the wrong turn.
Back in the day I used to think the move was near useless "Why would I FORCE the pokemon to keep attacking me? What good is that?" But now, I understand its power...and yet I have not been able to use it effectively as of this day. But one of these days, when I manage to get taunt to work how I want, oh boy, my opponent better watch out.
My favorite use of Taunt is in Anything Goes. People always run cheese strats like Sash Spam, Baton Pass, Moody Spore, Trapping Abilities, Evasion etc. Taunt shuts down so much bs in AG that it's the best tier to run Taunt in imo. I always run fast Taunt Stealth Rocker there and shut down so many teams completely.
Hackmons too, the amount of times people have quit Turn 2 or 3 just because I led or followed up with a Taunt is comical. Mental Herb and Magic Bounce apparently doesn't exist
@@-libertyprimev1-902magic bounce is one of the most underrated abilities in Hackmons, bounced strength sap is one of the most devastating things in the game
@@bignutta8 and bounce back opposing Taunts, that's the funniest situation possible because then it likely forces a switch from the support lead while you get to set up for free.
Prankster Encore was really fun and useful to use in Battle Maison doubles, more often than not the AI would just leave their encored Pokemon as a sitting duck and turn the battle into a 2v1
I am surprised that Annihilape wasn't mentioned, since with the single set of Bulk Up, Taunt, Drain Punch and Rage fist, along with it's defiant Ability to shut down Stall's preference to Intimidate and defog, it seems tailor made to reduce stall to atomic dust.
@@MrMacdaddymcfly Oh yeah, absolutely. If VGC was singles instead of 4-pokemon doubles, it would turn into chess, and the market demographics pokemon aims at aren't gonna watch a 1-hour chess match world finals
Taunt stifling was a major reason why mega Diancie fits so well on stall teams (if mega sab isn't available ). Mega Dian is one of the best Megas for stall in gen 6 OU and caused massively broken diancie stall during its short tenure in gen 7 uu
@@TheBonVivant_Stall players don't need any help lol, 99% of the time the people who use stall are top players because it is a very risky and skill reliant playstyle that needs a lot of care and metagame knowledge. I've fought like 300 games on gen 9 RU and I've only fought stall like 3 times and all of them were against top players, even won a match vs the top person on the ladder who was using a stall team and had a 90% winrate lol
@@Stormfin Mega Slowbro is more for bulky offensive teams, it's best moveset is calm mind because with the mega giving it a massive defense increase on top of shell armor preventing critical hits with calm mind and slack off Slowbro can become immortal short of toxic. Also regular Slowbro with regenerator is way better for stall, mega aggron is the mega of choice for non-mega diancie or sableye stall teams.
Taunt works exactly as you’d expect it to. Annoying bulky pokemon that just heal off everything you throw at them are a lot more impotent when you force them to try and punch you. It’s a great move, and a very good move for the game to have.
I wish Taunt had a drawback like, increasing the opponent's attacking move by 30% in the same turn. That means if you were to use Taunt on an opponent that will use an attacking move after you, you will take more damage. The idea of this is for the person to be careful with Taunt even if the drawback must happen within the same turn
@@LimeLivesMatter hmm… I think I’d disagree with that change. The downside of taunt is already there, basically, if you use taunt and the opposing pokemon attacks you, then you’ve wasted your turn and taken damage. That’s devastating, especially if you have a fast, frail pokemon taunting, which is pretty common since taunt is one of the utility moves that most appreciates going first. Taunt is a pretty tough move to pull off consistently, and it’s essentially a commitment of a turn that a good opponent can exploit if they predict it. It’s definitely not a free click, and I’d argue that it’s already much more of a high risk, high reward move than most moves in pokemon.
The best part about all of this is that you’re describing why wall and stall isn’t viable for VGC. Honestly, I love how singles is totally different than doubles. It’s like competitive Pokémon has two built in games.
@@MaxiemumKarnage True. I guess I always packed a perfect accuracy move like Swift for Minimize users like Koga. And then if it’s a regular playthrough with no item restrictions just using healing items for status.
mfs be like "smogon loves stall" and then only pack setup sweepers. my brother in arc, you put taunt on your roaring moon and all your problems are solved
Taunt is something that can be invaluable anywhere, not just in taking on stall. Taking out a single status move can change the outcome of a match. Just having a Pokémon with the option can make people worry about the idea of getting shut down, even if they never use it. There's a reason why the moves so popular in every format
@@videakias3000I can confirm it does feel good to beat stall, getting that read and watching it all fall is glorious, it only gets frustrating and not rewarding if you face multiple stall players in a row imo since it's just having to do all those turns again (Purely guessing here based on my experience with other games since i haven't had to face multiple stall players in a row in pokemon yet)
@@videakias3000 if you are having your time wasted then you most likely have a bad team against stall or making bad plays. sure a stall team can take a bit longer but with the right predictions you can definitely beat a stall team in under 40 turns (sometimes in under 10 if they rage).
As a yugioh player I can attest to this. Especially final count down and Exodia stall. I feel in yugioh stall is hated because of how uninteractive it is
I'd wager because the inherent psychology of a stall team: A stall team's strategy is essentially saying that the opponent is locked out of something that is a core mechanic: Oh you want to attack in a game that's about attacking? Let me invalidate the damage and use something that is annoying by nature like RNG fishing via Articuno freeze blizzards or Ting-Lu Fissure, Passive damage spamming (toxic, will-o, leech seed, para-fusion,) and while doing non-moves (substitute, recover, softboiled, pollen puff.) It also doesn't help whenever there's now a timer involved: how would someone feel winning via time against a stall player but they need to go to the bathroom feel? They'd be completely unfocused on the next game because the stall player refused to admit defeat and ran the clock when they knew they lost. Or say the stall player wins and now instead of that same player being able to focus on the next game, it takes away brainspace on the next opponent? From a tournament setting where a good amount of outliers are supposed to be excluded, that's fucked. Stall is inherently unfun where the only benefit from it comes from the denial of someone elses fun or shitting in the drinking water before they filled their cup: They don't care that everyone else has to risk infection or that they are eventually going to have to drink that same water, it's just they got the last drink.
I'm gonna say it. stall isn't a legitimate strategy. it's just made to mock and bully new players. whenever I see stall nowadays I see free wins. when things don't go well in their favor they simply quit less than halfway through the match
As a side note, do you have any idea how helpful Taunt is in battle facilities? There are a lot of stally, evasion boosting annoyances in the Battle Maison, Tree, etc. and having moves like Taunt and Substitute are a godsend against them.
"How GREAT was Taunt actually?" Fantastic move, breaks stall and fatmons, stops a fair number of setup sweepers, and a major player in the hazard war. Pretty much every tier since gen 5 has had some variant of a mon that can lead, click Spikes/Rocks/Taunt, and then die. Many tiers have an incredibly fat mon with Taunt that will simply never die and cant be worn down by Toxic etc. because they taunt opposijg Toxic users. Individually Taunt has to qualify as a top 5 move of all time.
This video basically shows why I don't hate stall: you have multiple tools to stop it, some as small checks and some as big counters. Being annoyed at stall is just projecting your anger away from your own poor team planning to not include stallbreaking Pokemon and moves
A video about my all time favorite move! I'm a doubles player, but one of my all time favorite experiences was using a life orb physical greninja set with waterfall, rockslide, u-turn, and taunt in XY singles.
Taunt, protect, and Encore are among the most important moves in the game. When the ability prankster was introduced, it added another layer of nuance to balance, allowing certain mons to bypass the stall play-style without being reliant on speed.
Oh hey a move story video, It's been a while since we've gotten this kind of vid Maybe next vid with the story of pivot moves? (U turn, volt switch, flip turn, parting shot, etc...)
insult a trainer for using stall and watch as you insults just slides off of them unaffected by anything you throw at them Insult a pokemon for using stall and watch as their stalling plans fall apart
My favorite metagame to use Taunt in was Gen 6/7 Ubers, going with physically defensive Yveltal running Foul Play, Sucker Punch, Taunt, and Roost. Run it with Leftovers, and it puts in so much work while being nearly unkillable vs physical attackers since Foul Play does so much when boosted by Dark Aura.
Surprised there wasn't any mention of Sableye in either gen 5 or 6. It can be a bit tough to fit in, but its super nice to shut things down with Prankster Taunt, especially as a secondary reason to delay Mega Evolution
Oh, stall in yugioh was no slouch either. There were 3 types too. Deck out (trying to make the opponent lose by making them draw their entire deck), Exodia (stalling while trying to gather Exodia), Burner (stalling while using cards to directly attack your opponent's lp little y little) The good thing is that you could have 15 cards as side deck and even switch them between games. Having a few antistall card in the side meant that even if you ran into a staller I that you didn't know in a tourney you could adapt your deck to win the first to 2 even if you lost the 1st round.
the trifecta of stallbreaking imo, is blocking, item removal (thief in earlier gens, knock off later on), and stacking damage sources. Blocking refers to things like trapping and prevention. Trapping is stuff like arena trap, shadow tag, magnet pull, mean look, etc. Moves or abilities that force an opponent to stay in with you so you can get rid of it. By forcing unfavourable or downright counter matchups, you can break key parts of stall. Prevention is mostly just taunt, encore, and anti-heal. Taunt is explained in this video so I won't go over it. Encore forces repeated moves so an opponent can't do anything else other than switch or repeat themselves. Anti-heal has to do with moves like heal block and psychic noise. These moves block healing so the opposing pokemon can't just heal off damage. Item removal is for getting rid of pesky items like leftovers or black sludge that give residual healing or for removing eviolite that makes walls tankier. Alternatively, you can use moves like trick or switcheroo to remove their beneficial item and give them an impeding one, which sort of overlaps with prevention. Tricking scarves or specs onto defensive walls has been a thing since gen 4 since they lock in and can't do anything else for the foreseeable future. Stacking damage sources is stuff like sand, hazards, and statuses (preferably toxic). In various gens, sand is super useful because it negates leftovers healing, which can heal tens to hundreds of % health over the course of a stall team. Hazards obviously make ranges much easier to hit - 2HKO after hazards is much better than 60% 2HKO. And statuses, especially toxic, stack residual damage that makes a wall much more frail than it normally should be. Toxic even forces the switch after a couple turns due to the ramping damage. Frankly, usually only one of these options is enough to make stall much frailer than it normally is. But if you have all three options, unless you're playing a format where stall is extremely broken, stallbreaking is not really an issue.
The video goes over the history of Taunt, and how it has been used to break stall teams throughout the generations. It also discusses some of the best Pokémon to use Taunt with, such as Gengar, Tyranitar, and Mew.
Kingambit is not a stall breaker lmao, dealing big pp DMG doesn't mean you can beat stall. Gambit gets permawalled by dondozo lol, stall breakers are pokemon like taunt roaring moon or encore iron valiant or maybe substitute psychic noise primarina. Kingambit isn't very good vs stall and is way stronger vs offense.
While I haven't engaged in any official and/or tournament play, I have always loved sprinkling in stall on my teams. I have an infestation/willowisp/clear smog/protect kantonian weezing from gen 6 that saw so much action alongside my fake-out/knock off pivot raichu & the vile trap-setting klefki. I prefer stalling with trapping moves like whirlpool/infestation etc.. bc for one, my whole team doesn't have to support the staller, and for two, its like a slow-paced explosion in effect: I choose to sacrifice weezing to lock down and suffocate a physical threat that I otherwise can't deal with, usually a ground type since I tend to build nasty equake weaknesses into my squads. I'm not defending stall, but I'll use it til I die. But, take everything I say with a grain of salt, I don't tend to pay attetnon to bannings and again, mostly just play with friends or random folks I get matched to in the games, and haven't dusted off my gen 6 battle teams since USUM.
As stall/control enjoyer in many different games, it's playing through and navigating around things like Taunt that make the game fun. It's honestly not fun if you get control over the game immediately and keep it the whole game. Part of making control fun to play with or against is having strong counter play available. When you're playing against an opponent who has answers to your slow, attrition based strategy, now you have a game on your hands. Taunt, ladies and gentlemen, never leave home without it.
Me when I get a stall team in randbats: oh hell yeah this takes careful planning and good prediction. Me when my opponent gets a stall team in randbats: this man is scum of the earth for knowing how to play stall so effectively
All I know is that I've never had any more trouble with stall than I have any other strategy, and I really don't mind longer games at all. If anything, I feel inclined to root for stall just because of how grown adults babyrage over it.
I still hate stall because I can rarely fit taunt onto any of my mons. I always have to give up an important move to make room for it which makes me worse against everything but stall, and since stall is so rare I'm just never prepared for it. I find it's best to just not bother and forfeit at preview when I see a stall team.
Perhaps the next theorem video could be why move sets (like mix attacking, fast physical, bulky special, etc) are close to everything or the Dragonite theorem
Stall is actually healthy as long as its niche and not too dominant. Otherwise it would just be Offense vs Offense and the fastest team would win every time. Its good to force offensive teams to use wallbreakers as well as having other ways to deal with defensive strategies. Stall makes the Speed stat less centralizing
@@skeetermania3202 then it just becomes that the fastest and strongest pokemon wins, thats it. Thats boring. Stall incentivises slower, but powerful pokemon like craudant, craudant is too slow but against stall pokemon its fast and its much stronger than pokemon who invest everything into speed. aswell as of course enabling a whole new style of Pokémon in defensive.
@@SecureBirch410sorry at this point it feels like I’m just stalking your comments because I already responded to 1 but you are talking like slow bulky offensive threats don’t work in matchups outside of stall. Yes speed is important but if it was the fastest mom wins all the time Pult would be considered super overbearing and probably be banned by now but it’s not it’s a healthy part of the meta game(in my opinion)
Sometimes inlike to include a mon thats sole purpose is to just sit in front of stall. Excadrill is pretty decent at it since its immune to 2 status in tox and para. So long as you can get a sub up in front of a pure status move mon, you can set up all the free SD in the world. One spin and youre guaranteed faster than like 99% of stall mons as well
While my Bronzong could get hit by a truck and walk away without so much as a scratch, I don’t really stall with it. He’s more of a utility setup mon that, eventually, will go down. His main purpose is to invalidate speed builds by using Trick Room allowing my slow tanky heavy hitters to become fearsome. Taunt, naturally, stops my bell from actually setting up, but I’ve not had someone taunt him turn 1. My Corviknight is more of a staller given his stats + Roost, though he’s mainly for setting up a bulk up, body press, and brave bird sweep.
Lmao I slowed my playback speed down to 0.75 because I was watching a guitar video trying to practice something, and I forgot and got 2 minutes into this video and thought, is Kellen drunk or something?
Me when stall is literally one of the hardest team archetypes to use as well as their players generally being top ladder players as well, and yet ppl complain about it being skillless Like, just run a stallbreaker and make good reads. It literally aint that hard. Hyper offense aint the only viable playstyle
I think it's very likely that stall does have some skill to play effectively. it's just I guess it's a more irritating playstyle to play against than others, so people complain about it more.
The thing is on top of that, honestly stall isn’t (usually) that effective in terms of winning high ladder games when compared to other styles of play., meaning you do require a lot of skill to pilot to high wins at higher ladder….yet as you said that doesn’t really change the fact that is just not that fun of a play style to go against as most players like releatively fast pace games where the game can be decided in around ~20 turns. While stall sometimes can require up to 20 turns just to make slight progress for either side
I rarelly used full stall, but what I often did was doing a 5 member stall with a sixth pokemon to clean up. In gen V, I used to go Dragonite with DD/Sub/Roost/DClaw.
I never understood why people say "Stall is braindead" Like, no??? It takes way more brainpower to predict sets and properly take on your answers than it does to click Dragon Dance and Earthquake for the 892019238475th battle in a row.
@@zacmayes2802 Generally Smogon players last as long in the bedroom as their average match. Now, with that rule established, what were your views on 100 turn matches again?
No matter what type of game, stall is always a problem that it depends on game mechanics to be op or doable, usually turn related is the most strong stall type, since in action it would take more action than reaction to keep in line with combos, but again in some games it might be op depending on what are the stall mechanics
Funny - I loathe stall, but I still can't ever seem to bother to use moves like Taunt, Encore or Trick. Maybe I'm just a simple Hyper Offense player, but I always prefer set-up and coverage moves over moves that I will most likely not need against many opponents.
The best part of this video is watching Blissey getting wooped for 24 minutes straight
Gen 4 Blissey's HP slowly scraping down the bar in Gen 4 is true stall
Me as a kid who's team consists of six Pokemon each with exclusively 4 attacking moves whenever the AI used taunt : "Was there another option ?"
Sigma mindset. The only non attacking moves are Sword dance, dragon dance or nasty plot
hyper offense ftw
@@oscara1573 Or Shell Smash, Quiver Dance, Calm Mind, Bulk Up etc.
*Clone Wars Anakin voice* "I don't have such weaknesses!"
Only attacking moves is actually generally the better strategy when trying to beat the game.
Look at pokemon challenges or hard nuzlockes. Support moves are rarely used because you are usually better off attacking. Very different from competitive
5:21 As if that wasn’t bad enough, no message is printed when Taunt’s effect wears off in Gen 3, so unless you’re watching the battle over like a hawk, you might make the mistake of Taunting on the wrong turn.
hawk tuahnt
i'm sorry
@@spritemaster8980Hawk Truant
@@spritemaster8980I can’t believe youve done this
@@spritemaster8980😕…
You just gotta hawk tuah and taunt on that Blissey
Back in the day I used to think the move was near useless "Why would I FORCE the pokemon to keep attacking me? What good is that?" But now, I understand its power...and yet I have not been able to use it effectively as of this day. But one of these days, when I manage to get taunt to work how I want, oh boy, my opponent better watch out.
Reading a good taunt happens once in a blue moon but man do you feel like doctor strange reading the possible futures when you do
My favorite use of taunt I've ever pulled off was taunting Evice's slowking in colosseum
My landorous and Annihilape use it pretty well
It's not too hard, stall and super aggro set up teams it can be ez
Best way to utilize taunt in vgc is when you use it after someone protects. Almost guarantees the next 3 turns in your favor
My favorite use of Taunt is in Anything Goes. People always run cheese strats like Sash Spam, Baton Pass, Moody Spore, Trapping Abilities, Evasion etc.
Taunt shuts down so much bs in AG that it's the best tier to run Taunt in imo. I always run fast Taunt Stealth Rocker there and shut down so many teams completely.
Haze, Taunt, Encore, and the ability Unaware go so hard in AG
Hackmons too, the amount of times people have quit Turn 2 or 3 just because I led or followed up with a Taunt is comical. Mental Herb and Magic Bounce apparently doesn't exist
@@-libertyprimev1-902 Too many players tunnel into one strat and can't think of what to do when that strat is disturbed 🤔
@@-libertyprimev1-902magic bounce is one of the most underrated abilities in Hackmons, bounced strength sap is one of the most devastating things in the game
@@bignutta8 and bounce back opposing Taunts, that's the funniest situation possible because then it likely forces a switch from the support lead while you get to set up for free.
I think Encore is another nice tool in limiting stall, while also having the additional effect of being useful into more offensive team structures
I used to run Encore on a Prankster Whimsicott, had fun punishing attempted set ups, and if you run an attacking move you can counter opposing taunts.
Prankster Encore was really fun and useful to use in Battle Maison doubles, more often than not the AI would just leave their encored Pokemon as a sitting duck and turn the battle into a 2v1
Especially if you taunt-encore them. 😂
@@crawdaddy2004 Bonus points if you have Pressure.
@@wcjerky Better if you have Pranster, because it’s a lock.
I am surprised that Annihilape wasn't mentioned, since with the single set of Bulk Up, Taunt, Drain Punch and Rage fist, along with it's defiant Ability to shut down Stall's preference to Intimidate and defog, it seems tailor made to reduce stall to atomic dust.
Typical of Smogon to ban such a mon
@@everyonesidol9731Lol nobody wants to add hisuisn zoroark to every single team just to not lose to a single pokemon?
Too bad it was also premium grade bullshit
Have you ever used Rage Fist before?@@everyonesidol9731
@@axlr8deathpls294i fw hisuian zoroark 💯
stall players when their battle doesnt last 400+ turns in a vgc match
Stall players when they see a huge line and have to wait 5 hours to buy the new Pokémon game from the nearest store: 😃
The game would probably end before that turn cap is reached due to match timer.
Stall probably caused VGC to become the official format 😅
@@MrMacdaddymcfly Oh yeah, absolutely. If VGC was singles instead of 4-pokemon doubles, it would turn into chess, and the market demographics pokemon aims at aren't gonna watch a 1-hour chess match world finals
Choso scene:
Taunt stifling was a major reason why mega Diancie fits so well on stall teams (if mega sab isn't available ). Mega Dian is one of the best Megas for stall in gen 6 OU and caused massively broken diancie stall during its short tenure in gen 7 uu
Shhh don’t give the stall players help
@@TheBonVivant_Stall players don't need any help lol, 99% of the time the people who use stall are top players because it is a very risky and skill reliant playstyle that needs a lot of care and metagame knowledge.
I've fought like 300 games on gen 9 RU and I've only fought stall like 3 times and all of them were against top players, even won a match vs the top person on the ladder who was using a stall team and had a 90% winrate lol
Why not Mega Slowbro?
@@Stormfin Mega Slowbro is more for bulky offensive teams, it's best moveset is calm mind because with the mega giving it a massive defense increase on top of shell armor preventing critical hits with calm mind and slack off Slowbro can become immortal short of toxic.
Also regular Slowbro with regenerator is way better for stall, mega aggron is the mega of choice for non-mega diancie or sableye stall teams.
Really? I usually see players run Mega Lopunny on stall instead.
Taunt works exactly as you’d expect it to. Annoying bulky pokemon that just heal off everything you throw at them are a lot more impotent when you force them to try and punch you. It’s a great move, and a very good move for the game to have.
The interesting thing about taunt is it's usefulness increases with the skill of the player.
I wish Taunt had a drawback like, increasing the opponent's attacking move by 30% in the same turn. That means if you were to use Taunt on an opponent that will use an attacking move after you, you will take more damage. The idea of this is for the person to be careful with Taunt even if the drawback must happen within the same turn
@@LimeLivesMatter yeah makes sense tbh
@@LimeLivesMatter hmm… I think I’d disagree with that change. The downside of taunt is already there, basically, if you use taunt and the opposing pokemon attacks you, then you’ve wasted your turn and taken damage. That’s devastating, especially if you have a fast, frail pokemon taunting, which is pretty common since taunt is one of the utility moves that most appreciates going first.
Taunt is a pretty tough move to pull off consistently, and it’s essentially a commitment of a turn that a good opponent can exploit if they predict it. It’s definitely not a free click, and I’d argue that it’s already much more of a high risk, high reward move than most moves in pokemon.
@@deadeyez0132very dark type move
Getting a taunt read on the Blissey switch fills me with an indescribable amount of joy.
Did you know I lost my 208 win streak to a Wobbuffet in the Battle Tower?
@@marioipod lost a nuzzlocke to a wobb in a randomizer it's a cruel world
Bristish Blissey: I will take this match with the power of stall.
French Gengar: Enough!! Now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
The best part about all of this is that you’re describing why wall and stall isn’t viable for VGC. Honestly, I love how singles is totally different than doubles. It’s like competitive Pokémon has two built in games.
the thumbnails may be the best artistic decision in fsg history. whoevers idea that was, good stuff
This video had to have been written by CTC and then revised to be monetizeable by BKC
What
Taunt is the ultimate move that is less useful in a regular playthrough but critical in competitive
Taunt can be pretty useful for annoying gym leaders and E4 members like Koga in hgss
@@vaporterra Nuzlockers will probably disagree with that.
@@skeetermania3202 Nuzlockes are the exception.
@@MaxiemumKarnage True. I guess I always packed a perfect accuracy move like Swift for Minimize users like Koga. And then if it’s a regular playthrough with no item restrictions just using healing items for status.
Double team isn't banned in playthroughs
0:05 hey thats me lol
The OP or the one he’s describing? 😅
Too Kool
For real?
Cool😊
You got a downvote so it must've ruffled someone's feathers lol.
5:50 why is that dusclops so cute☹️☹️
“The few Pokémon capable of withstanding its special onslaught would all get exploded on”
Kinky
mfs be like "smogon loves stall" and then only pack setup sweepers. my brother in arc, you put taunt on your roaring moon and all your problems are solved
Or even Encore on your Valiant. Switch in your Valiant on like a Dozo using Rest. Or you could try Trick-erooing a Choice item
"Speed is broken, let's ban Pokemon with More than 2 points on Speed" Sfagon council, probably.
@@RandalfElVikingo Deoxys-Speed, one of the fastest pokemon ever, was literally *un*banned this generation what are you even saying dawg
@@RandalfElVikingoSaying this in the generation where Booster Energy is everywhere is funny
@RandalfElVikingo really just had to add the CTC special on there
Taunt is something that can be invaluable anywhere, not just in taking on stall. Taking out a single status move can change the outcome of a match. Just having a Pokémon with the option can make people worry about the idea of getting shut down, even if they never use it. There's a reason why the moves so popular in every format
Stall is annoying yes. HOWEVER beating stall is the most satisfying thing ever. Seeing their team crumble feels like the pinnacle of power
That’s it
I’m making a stall team and lose on purpose to make people happy
no it is not.
where did you get that crap?
the frustration from the rest of the battle and the time wasted isn't going away just because you won.
@@videakias3000 but it feels good to win because the stall player lost
@@videakias3000I can confirm it does feel good to beat stall, getting that read and watching it all fall is glorious, it only gets frustrating and not rewarding if you face multiple stall players in a row imo since it's just having to do all those turns again (Purely guessing here based on my experience with other games since i haven't had to face multiple stall players in a row in pokemon yet)
@@videakias3000 if you are having your time wasted then you most likely have a bad team against stall or making bad plays. sure a stall team can take a bit longer but with the right predictions you can definitely beat a stall team in under 40 turns (sometimes in under 10 if they rage).
Blissey: I'll heal off damage from your special attacks and paralyze you. Gengar: hehe ur mom lol.
No matter which game or Trading Card Game: Stall Tactics are always hated
Stall decks in Magic the Gathering are fun at least.
As a yugioh player I can attest to this. Especially final count down and Exodia stall. I feel in yugioh stall is hated because of how uninteractive it is
@@theyugiohcardforger Those are not even the worse. Mystic Mine!
I'd wager because the inherent psychology of a stall team: A stall team's strategy is essentially saying that the opponent is locked out of something that is a core mechanic: Oh you want to attack in a game that's about attacking? Let me invalidate the damage and use something that is annoying by nature like RNG fishing via Articuno freeze blizzards or Ting-Lu Fissure, Passive damage spamming (toxic, will-o, leech seed, para-fusion,) and while doing non-moves (substitute, recover, softboiled, pollen puff.)
It also doesn't help whenever there's now a timer involved: how would someone feel winning via time against a stall player but they need to go to the bathroom feel? They'd be completely unfocused on the next game because the stall player refused to admit defeat and ran the clock when they knew they lost. Or say the stall player wins and now instead of that same player being able to focus on the next game, it takes away brainspace on the next opponent? From a tournament setting where a good amount of outliers are supposed to be excluded, that's fucked.
Stall is inherently unfun where the only benefit from it comes from the denial of someone elses fun or shitting in the drinking water before they filled their cup: They don't care that everyone else has to risk infection or that they are eventually going to have to drink that same water, it's just they got the last drink.
@@theyugiohcardforger at least Exodia is kinda iconic
my favorite competitive moves are the ones that no one outside of competitive would use, like who’s using taunt, knock off, roar in a playthrough 😂
Playing against stall is like getting taunted irl tbh
Fr though it makes me feel like I wanna use thrash on my freaking computer lol
I'm gonna say it. stall isn't a legitimate strategy. it's just made to mock and bully new players. whenever I see stall nowadays I see free wins. when things don't go well in their favor they simply quit less than halfway through the match
@@windego64 I mean as a hyper offensive player myself I could argue the same. I've seen people leave after taunting a swords dance or dragon dance
@@thebestman5382 Not a good hyper offense team. trust me I'm a hyper offense enjoyer too. rejoice my brother.
@@windego64 We shall rejoice as one turn of set up and spikes proceed to win a game lol
As a side note, do you have any idea how helpful Taunt is in battle facilities? There are a lot of stally, evasion boosting annoyances in the Battle Maison, Tree, etc. and having moves like Taunt and Substitute are a godsend against them.
Mega Sableye:Cool story,bro
Gen 8+ Mega Ban: You’re a story, bro.
*(Sableye: +BOOK’D)*
"How GREAT was Taunt actually?" Fantastic move, breaks stall and fatmons, stops a fair number of setup sweepers, and a major player in the hazard war. Pretty much every tier since gen 5 has had some variant of a mon that can lead, click Spikes/Rocks/Taunt, and then die. Many tiers have an incredibly fat mon with Taunt that will simply never die and cant be worn down by Toxic etc. because they taunt opposijg Toxic users. Individually Taunt has to qualify as a top 5 move of all time.
This video basically shows why I don't hate stall: you have multiple tools to stop it, some as small checks and some as big counters. Being annoyed at stall is just projecting your anger away from your own poor team planning to not include stallbreaking Pokemon and moves
Eh, you can know how to beat Stall and still not like it. Then the match is just boring and by the numbers. So still an unfun waste of time.
Sounds like a skill issue @@17Master
19:54 - Blissey looked happy when taunted
Ah yes taunt me behated and beloved
A video about my all time favorite move! I'm a doubles player, but one of my all time favorite experiences was using a life orb physical greninja set with waterfall, rockslide, u-turn, and taunt in XY singles.
Taunt, protect, and Encore are among the most important moves in the game. When the ability prankster was introduced, it added another layer of nuance to balance, allowing certain mons to bypass the stall play-style without being reliant on speed.
16:13 my mind was trained to never click U-turn against Zapdos 😢
"Stall is the worst!"
...Because its been so good for the past generations... Right? Right?
Oh hey a move story video, It's been a while since we've gotten this kind of vid
Maybe next vid with the story of pivot moves? (U turn, volt switch, flip turn, parting shot, etc...)
I think there is one call "how u-turn and volt switch redifined singles".
Its not a story of moves, but its something
Big Stall sends its regards
insult a trainer for using stall and watch as you insults just slides off of them unaffected by anything you throw at them
Insult a pokemon for using stall and watch as their stalling plans fall apart
As someone who detests stall, I approve of Taunt.
Imagine how broken a taunt like move that prevents attacks would be
Would love to see a video talking about how big type chart changes like steel no longer resisting dark and ghost were for the meta.
My favorite metagame to use Taunt in was Gen 6/7 Ubers, going with physically defensive Yveltal running Foul Play, Sucker Punch, Taunt, and Roost. Run it with Leftovers, and it puts in so much work while being nearly unkillable vs physical attackers since Foul Play does so much when boosted by Dark Aura.
UA-cam comments once again proving that they've never actually played a game of competitive pokemon.
Surprised there wasn't any mention of Sableye in either gen 5 or 6. It can be a bit tough to fit in, but its super nice to shut things down with Prankster Taunt, especially as a secondary reason to delay Mega Evolution
Oh, stall in yugioh was no slouch either. There were 3 types too. Deck out (trying to make the opponent lose by making them draw their entire deck), Exodia (stalling while trying to gather Exodia), Burner (stalling while using cards to directly attack your opponent's lp little y little)
The good thing is that you could have 15 cards as side deck and even switch them between games. Having a few antistall card in the side meant that even if you ran into a staller I that you didn't know in a tourney you could adapt your deck to win the first to 2 even if you lost the 1st round.
the trifecta of stallbreaking imo, is blocking, item removal (thief in earlier gens, knock off later on), and stacking damage sources.
Blocking refers to things like trapping and prevention. Trapping is stuff like arena trap, shadow tag, magnet pull, mean look, etc. Moves or abilities that force an opponent to stay in with you so you can get rid of it. By forcing unfavourable or downright counter matchups, you can break key parts of stall. Prevention is mostly just taunt, encore, and anti-heal. Taunt is explained in this video so I won't go over it. Encore forces repeated moves so an opponent can't do anything else other than switch or repeat themselves. Anti-heal has to do with moves like heal block and psychic noise. These moves block healing so the opposing pokemon can't just heal off damage.
Item removal is for getting rid of pesky items like leftovers or black sludge that give residual healing or for removing eviolite that makes walls tankier. Alternatively, you can use moves like trick or switcheroo to remove their beneficial item and give them an impeding one, which sort of overlaps with prevention. Tricking scarves or specs onto defensive walls has been a thing since gen 4 since they lock in and can't do anything else for the foreseeable future.
Stacking damage sources is stuff like sand, hazards, and statuses (preferably toxic). In various gens, sand is super useful because it negates leftovers healing, which can heal tens to hundreds of % health over the course of a stall team. Hazards obviously make ranges much easier to hit - 2HKO after hazards is much better than 60% 2HKO. And statuses, especially toxic, stack residual damage that makes a wall much more frail than it normally should be. Toxic even forces the switch after a couple turns due to the ramping damage.
Frankly, usually only one of these options is enough to make stall much frailer than it normally is. But if you have all three options, unless you're playing a format where stall is extremely broken, stallbreaking is not really an issue.
The gengar animation though 😂
The video goes over the history of Taunt, and how it has been used to break stall teams throughout the generations. It also discusses some of the best Pokémon to use Taunt with, such as Gengar, Tyranitar, and Mew.
"It was referred to as StallBreaker Gliscor"
This truly is a case of you either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain.
Now we have Kingambit for another way to break stall
And roaring moon GOLLY its knock off’s can crush stall. And rock slides for pesky moltres
@@yonkodudeRock slide? This is worse than tera bug roaring moon lol
Kingambit is not a stall breaker lmao, dealing big pp DMG doesn't mean you can beat stall.
Gambit gets permawalled by dondozo lol, stall breakers are pokemon like taunt roaring moon or encore iron valiant or maybe substitute psychic noise primarina.
Kingambit isn't very good vs stall and is way stronger vs offense.
@@axlr8deathpls294 why would u run tera bug tho rock slide is a good counter for moltres tryna proc flame body tera bug has no uses
@@axlr8deathpls294 You forgot most stall teams are evasion and kowtow cleave cannot miss
I imagine whenever a pokemon taunts it just heckles the opponent like Statler and Waldorf to Fozzie bear
I'm loving the Pokémon Stadium 2 OST in the background 😍
What?! NO! I NEED MY MATCHES TO LAST 1000 TURNS GET RID OF THE VIDEO 😭
While I haven't engaged in any official and/or tournament play, I have always loved sprinkling in stall on my teams. I have an infestation/willowisp/clear smog/protect kantonian weezing from gen 6 that saw so much action alongside my fake-out/knock off pivot raichu & the vile trap-setting klefki. I prefer stalling with trapping moves like whirlpool/infestation etc.. bc for one, my whole team doesn't have to support the staller, and for two, its like a slow-paced explosion in effect: I choose to sacrifice weezing to lock down and suffocate a physical threat that I otherwise can't deal with, usually a ground type since I tend to build nasty equake weaknesses into my squads. I'm not defending stall, but I'll use it til I die. But, take everything I say with a grain of salt, I don't tend to pay attetnon to bannings and again, mostly just play with friends or random folks I get matched to in the games, and haven't dusted off my gen 6 battle teams since USUM.
As stall/control enjoyer in many different games, it's playing through and navigating around things like Taunt that make the game fun. It's honestly not fun if you get control over the game immediately and keep it the whole game. Part of making control fun to play with or against is having strong counter play available. When you're playing against an opponent who has answers to your slow, attrition based strategy, now you have a game on your hands.
Taunt, ladies and gentlemen, never leave home without it.
Me when I get a stall team in randbats: oh hell yeah this takes careful planning and good prediction.
Me when my opponent gets a stall team in randbats: this man is scum of the earth for knowing how to play stall so effectively
Dragon Ball Z taught me that Taunt is the most powerful move.
I still remember destroying a stall team using Attract, it was a great time for me
Lele Kokofini. Lol. Don't know why my brain did that but it's funny 😂
All I know is that I've never had any more trouble with stall than I have any other strategy, and I really don't mind longer games at all. If anything, I feel inclined to root for stall just because of how grown adults babyrage over it.
I still hate stall because I can rarely fit taunt onto any of my mons. I always have to give up an important move to make room for it which makes me worse against everything but stall, and since stall is so rare I'm just never prepared for it. I find it's best to just not bother and forfeit at preview when I see a stall team.
Thumbnail is literally so cute
AKA "How Great was Taunt ACTUALLY?"
Perhaps the next theorem video could be why move sets (like mix attacking, fast physical, bulky special, etc) are close to everything or the Dragonite theorem
One good thing about urshifu is that it completely shits on stall. Good luck trying toxic protect in front of my choice band 252 atk Urshifu
You should also do a remake of Gligar/Gliscor since the latter has been so consistent that it deserves recognition.
Stall is actually healthy as long as its niche and not too dominant. Otherwise it would just be Offense vs Offense and the fastest team would win every time. Its good to force offensive teams to use wallbreakers as well as having other ways to deal with defensive strategies. Stall makes the Speed stat less centralizing
Personally I kinda like more offensive play styles being the dominant ones. Healthy is a pretty subjective term, though.
@@skeetermania3202like little cup
@@skeetermania3202 I mean healthy in terms of diversity/variety or the amount of viable strategies you can win with.
@@skeetermania3202 then it just becomes that the fastest and strongest pokemon wins, thats it. Thats boring. Stall incentivises slower, but powerful pokemon like craudant, craudant is too slow but against stall pokemon its fast and its much stronger than pokemon who invest everything into speed. aswell as of course enabling a whole new style of Pokémon in defensive.
@@SecureBirch410sorry at this point it feels like I’m just stalking your comments because I already responded to 1 but you are talking like slow bulky offensive threats don’t work in matchups outside of stall. Yes speed is important but if it was the fastest mom wins all the time Pult would be considered super overbearing and probably be banned by now but it’s not it’s a healthy part of the meta game(in my opinion)
Sometimes inlike to include a mon thats sole purpose is to just sit in front of stall. Excadrill is pretty decent at it since its immune to 2 status in tox and para. So long as you can get a sub up in front of a pure status move mon, you can set up all the free SD in the world. One spin and youre guaranteed faster than like 99% of stall mons as well
I had my T-Tar in gen 4 run taunt and dragon dance😂 clapped every skarm and "want to setup " cleffs😂
While my Bronzong could get hit by a truck and walk away without so much as a scratch, I don’t really stall with it. He’s more of a utility setup mon that, eventually, will go down. His main purpose is to invalidate speed builds by using Trick Room allowing my slow tanky heavy hitters to become fearsome. Taunt, naturally, stops my bell from actually setting up, but I’ve not had someone taunt him turn 1.
My Corviknight is more of a staller given his stats + Roost, though he’s mainly for setting up a bulk up, body press, and brave bird sweep.
Lmao I slowed my playback speed down to 0.75 because I was watching a guitar video trying to practice something, and I forgot and got 2 minutes into this video and thought, is Kellen drunk or something?
BIG STALL
Taunt and Torment was something I used to think was really good.
taunt electrode has been a staple on my personal teams since he could learn it kek...
The Chad only running attacking moves so taunt doesn't matter
Liepard using Taunt to a Salamence. Salamence now can't use Dragon Dance after the taunt. LOL
that thumbnail is so cute tho
I know the channel specialize in Singles... but would've been nice to have a VGC section
For some reason my dumb ass thought "oh its torment 🥴" and then I realized we were just talking about taunt
Ahh excited to watch!
Me when stall is literally one of the hardest team archetypes to use as well as their players generally being top ladder players as well, and yet ppl complain about it being skillless
Like, just run a stallbreaker and make good reads. It literally aint that hard. Hyper offense aint the only viable playstyle
F for you, for having your entire team beaten by toxic salazzle in randbat
It happened to the best of us
I think it's very likely that stall does have some skill to play effectively. it's just I guess it's a more irritating playstyle to play against than others, so people complain about it more.
The thing is on top of that, honestly stall isn’t (usually) that effective in terms of winning high ladder games when compared to other styles of play., meaning you do require a lot of skill to pilot to high wins at higher ladder….yet as you said that doesn’t really change the fact that is just not that fun of a play style to go against as most players like releatively fast pace games where the game can be decided in around ~20 turns. While stall sometimes can require up to 20 turns just to make slight progress for either side
I've never been great at competitive, but I have had A LOT of fun taunting other trainers in online battles.
My favourite part is the part with Gliscor
It isn't really about stall but about the power of taunt I once taunted a geo herb xerneas with an electrode on cart and got a turn one disconnect
I rarelly used full stall, but what I often did was doing a 5 member stall with a sixth pokemon to clean up. In gen V, I used to go Dragonite with DD/Sub/Roost/DClaw.
I never understood why people say "Stall is braindead" Like, no??? It takes way more brainpower to predict sets and properly take on your answers than it does to click Dragon Dance and Earthquake for the 892019238475th battle in a row.
Because sitting down for 100 turns to win causes brain damage for both parties 😭
@@zacmayes2802 Generally Smogon players last as long in the bedroom as their average match.
Now, with that rule established, what were your views on 100 turn matches again?
now we need a move that combines Taunt with Encore, just unleash Anti-stall hell
Can do a "What if" video. Like what if Pokémon were allowed to have five moves instead?
Straight up I thought the thumbnail was Kirby with his hands up
I use my Contrary Serperior with Taunt when I really feel like fucking with my opponent 😂
No matter what type of game, stall is always a problem that it depends on game mechanics to be op or doable, usually turn related is the most strong stall type, since in action it would take more action than reaction to keep in line with combos, but again in some games it might be op depending on what are the stall mechanics
Soon there be a stall team where everyone's got magic bounce or oblivious.
Ah yes, the most effective taunt. Poopy poopy.
Smogon: I do not like something. I will just ban it!
I mean... yeah. That's how communities work.
Post your elo
Stall players eat corn on the cob the long way.
Funny - I loathe stall, but I still can't ever seem to bother to use moves like Taunt, Encore or Trick. Maybe I'm just a simple Hyper Offense player, but I always prefer set-up and coverage moves over moves that I will most likely not need against many opponents.
What's more important to the game? Taunt or encore?