It was funny though 😂😂😂 i think that section of track was rough. Because the aventras are actually not bad. They make jittery noises though. But im not bothered. I think aventras are made in a way where they are bolted and "clipped" together as opposed to welded in every area. So they juggle around as a result. But they are pretty stable.
@@gapthemind--mindthegap8524 Aventras are not stable. 720s will cause you to nearly bang your head on a window whenever you go round any significant curve. 360s offer a much smoother ride. 710s like to buck you forward like a horse whenever dodgy track presents itself (you are sitting longitudinally remember) and it gets annoying quickly. 345s are the only smooth Aventras, but even then they fall short when compared to 365s... trust me. As much as you might want Aventra ride quality to be good... it isn't.
@@SolomonClarkeTrains-nw1sf the 701s and 730s are relitively stable from my experience. ESSPECIALLY 730s Look at my footage one more time. ua-cam.com/video/PGAFRjsgW_w/v-deo.htmlsi=gE4-FkZqq8alEYoB But i agree other aventras are shaky
As someone else said in the comments, the acceleration out of Feltham at the start is insane. I did my own estimations and I got 0.964m/s^2, which we can round to 0.96m/s^2, as the other person said. Amazing. Wish drivers were trained to use full power all the time when possible though, it's annoying how sometimes you'll get much slower acceleration than the train is capable of.
Is that how the acceleration calculations work? Why would they classify it as 0.7 ? Because look at electrostars for example 20 seconds to 30mph rated 0.62m/s² but feel like 0.7 when drivers actually try to go fast. Aventras take near 19 seconds (701) to 30mph Class 707s tale 19 seconds too and are rated 0.85m/s². I wonder why they are all rated that Might it be continuous acceleration? Or peak power acceleration? If thats the case class 701s may possibly be peaking around 17mph. You can tell the power sort of stops rising in influx and stays constant there. ( this is probably down to gear ratio too+reduced third rail power specs) Thr driver definitely uses full power when it wasn't raining you feel slight jerk back, The acceleration just feels more dainty compared to 450s initially. But still flies out the station. Also consider that my camera has a wider field of view.
@@gapthemind--mindthegap8524 I don't know how they work the values but you work it out like this: 17.2 mph ≈ 17.2 × 0.44704 m/s ≈ 7.684288 m/s 7.684288 m/s / 8 s ≈ 0.960536 m/s^2 Therefore an acceleration of 0.96 up to 17mph Class 450 have very very reduced power due to their weight and power output which can't be catered for by the substations. I don't know about the other trains you mentioned, however I doubt any of them would be able to do 0.96m/s^2 except maybe the Desiro City in some situations..? 20 seconds to 30mph would be 0.671m/s. When under the initial 0.96m/s^2 ride quality it does 30 in about 18 or so seconds, which is 0.745m/s^2. When it's not going under full power, like in the other clips, it does it in 20. I've crosschecked this with another acceleration vid and the fastest it can reach 30 is about 17 seconds, 0.789m/s^2.
@@OneTrackMinded with desiros they hit 17mph in quick succession. Then taper off. That could be why they they are rated at 0.9. Also i doubt desiros actually need to be limited the way they are. They weigh the same as some electrostars and yet still the electrostars have a better abundancr of power at the wheels. Perhaps desiros are so bulky with technology that the power is distributed differently by the auxilliary converter? Or maybe its strictly limited by what the timetable requires them for? Ill link you some of my electrostar videos (some of the dudes in rail forum have a denial problem with GPS footage i find it so odd honestly) Class 379 acceleration (fastest acceleration of class 379 on internet most likely) (18 seconds to 30mph) ua-cam.com/video/K6Am59o5Q08/v-deo.htmlsi=6xp096sYIufBMiXN Class 357 acceleration ua-cam.com/video/GOCtTntWweA/v-deo.htmlsi=nNmZolK-VkFy8-ln ua-cam.com/video/kewYkCHsn0Y/v-deo.htmlsi=0g2FatriA4uW39fp 377/6 DC
@@gapthemind--mindthegap8524An 8 car 450 weighs 351.42 t, while a 10 car 701 weights 347.0 t, and a 8 car 377 weights 340t. This means that a 450 requires more power, and as that power isn't there with 3rd rail, it has to be power restricted. I've compared the 701 acceleration with the 379 and the 701 is able to beat it to up to about 24, with the 701 reaching 17mph in 8 seconds and the 379 doing it in 11. From there, the acceleration basically matches up to 45-50mph where the 379 begins to overtake. Same thing applies for the 357, with it reaching 17mph in 11 seconds, and the 701 beating it to 30 with the 357 reaching it in about 19 seconds while the 701 reaches it in about 17. Afterwards it matches until about 45, like the 379. And of course the 701 significantly beats the 377. This is very, very impressive considering the 701 is a 3rd Rail DC train, and the 379 and 357 are both 25kv OHLE AC. What this says to me is the 701 has much superior initial acceleration to most other trains out there, and is then also able to match even AC trains up to around 45mph. However after that is where it drops off, and the AC electrostars are able to beat it. Still is much faster consistently than a DC 377, as well as the Desiro City, where it's able to beat it even at higher speeds. For fun I also decided to compare it with the 720. It's a very similar story to the AC electrostars, where the 701 achieves 17mph in 8 seconds, and the 720 achieves 17mph in about 12. Then it catches up at around 30mph. Also did a quick comparison with a DC 710. 701 still beats it to 17 but it's very similar as you'd expect. And finally, and this is a bit pointless, the 345. Funnily enough it's the only train so far to have the same initial acceleration to 17mph in 8 seconds, and then it matches to 20mph where then as you'd expect the 345 is miles ahead.
@OneTrackMinded Message board for you tube @OneTrackMinded this is interesting becuase 450s weight relitively the same as 377/5s 375/6s and 387s in 4 car formation. These are vastly superior in most formations to the 450s. 4 and 8 cqr formations noticably. Another thing to mention is the class 377/6s . In ten car formation they are 412 to 424 tons depending on /6 or /7s in a ten car formation. They blow the 450s out of the park. Its crazy. Class 377/6 acceleration in 10 car formation ua-cam.com/video/df8NfU3P2U0/v-deo.htmlsi=uHvWXP83WZREAU0P Now with regards to class 701s. The fact that they beat most DC trains to 30mph is very impressive makes me wonder what the initial power to weight ratio is on these trains. Id wager that they probably use a bit more power than the class 707s . But at the same time , class 701s have a higher motor rating likely meaning it has a greater starting torque advantage. I.e 1600kw with 8 200kw motors vs 2000kw by 4 ,250kw motors (this doesent mean the 701s or 707s use that full output) this means the motors likely made to utilise a higher starting torque on the class 701s. Interestingly though. Class 710s are supposed to have a 90mph gear ratio so one would assume the motors would have a slightly lower gear ratio and an easier time producing greater motor torque initially. But who knows. With class 720s (i guess you seen botg my videos. There are three now actually) i assume you did multiple takes on them to clarify that the 701s beat them at lower speeds? With regards to electrostars, my guess is that the electrostars are limited with how much torque they can release at lower speeds due to firstly being much heavier and potential overloading the motor so likely let out full power as the motor spins faster and has more monentum. I.e release power slower. Secondly apparently it costs more to allow heavier trains to be super fast initially as it can have wear and tear on the tracks faster. And lastly the electrostars are from what it seems like, geared to 115 to 120mph. But are limited to the specs and software. This plus all the other factors regarding relitive weight, and motor torque limits at low speed likely create the low speed acceleration drawbacks. By the way this is by far the fastest DC electrostar behind class 378.(they are basically the same Class 376 acceleration (look at how fast it picks up speed after 35mph amd compare that to class 701s, these may actually be faster if given a motor to car ratio of 1 to 1. So 10 motors oer 5 car, as they are only 200kw rating on the 376s. .ua-cam.com/video/Hm5p4Jwnh9A/v-deo.htmlsi=8AuSGS7FuBwCulg2
The first clip is very impressive. 8 seconds to 17.2 mph is 0.96m/s^2, crazy really. The other clips, not as much. For example, clip 2, 6 seconds to 8.4 is only about 0.6m/s^2. Clip 3 gets to 7.2 in 4 seconds, which is 0.8m/s^2. And then the rest are under wet weather so further reduced. Unless of course there was some sort of issue with the gps catching up, it is a bit odd how the other video seems to have much better acceleration.
Adding onto the last part of your comment, it's probably just the driver deciding to reduce power for whatever reason. Also it looks like some of the footage might have been taken on different days, so possibly the driver of one unit decided to drive faster while the other much slower
Sorry to the people who saw the video dissappear, I had to reupload it as i made an error. Here it is, enjoy. 😊😊
The fucking ride quality in the first clip 🤣🤣🤣🤣Jesus Christ
Its fine, i held the phone flimsy as always. Trust me this trains the sturdiest thing ive been on compared to 730s.
It was funny though 😂😂😂 i think that section of track was rough. Because the aventras are actually not bad. They make jittery noises though. But im not bothered. I think aventras are made in a way where they are bolted and "clipped" together as opposed to welded in every area. So they juggle around as a result. But they are pretty stable.
@@gapthemind--mindthegap8524 Nope, I got thrown about in a 701 way more than I did in a 458. Even the 450 was arguably better
@@gapthemind--mindthegap8524 Aventras are not stable. 720s will cause you to nearly bang your head on a window whenever you go round any significant curve. 360s offer a much smoother ride.
710s like to buck you forward like a horse whenever dodgy track presents itself (you are sitting longitudinally remember) and it gets annoying quickly.
345s are the only smooth Aventras, but even then they fall short when compared to 365s... trust me. As much as you might want Aventra ride quality to be good... it isn't.
@@SolomonClarkeTrains-nw1sf the 701s and 730s are relitively stable from my experience. ESSPECIALLY 730s
Look at my footage one more time.
ua-cam.com/video/PGAFRjsgW_w/v-deo.htmlsi=gE4-FkZqq8alEYoB
But i agree other aventras are shaky
As someone else said in the comments, the acceleration out of Feltham at the start is insane. I did my own estimations and I got 0.964m/s^2, which we can round to 0.96m/s^2, as the other person said. Amazing. Wish drivers were trained to use full power all the time when possible though, it's annoying how sometimes you'll get much slower acceleration than the train is capable of.
Is that how the acceleration calculations work? Why would they classify it as 0.7 ? Because look at electrostars for example
20 seconds to 30mph rated 0.62m/s² but feel like 0.7 when drivers actually try to go fast.
Aventras take near 19 seconds (701) to 30mph
Class 707s tale 19 seconds too and are rated 0.85m/s².
I wonder why they are all rated that
Might it be continuous acceleration? Or peak power acceleration? If thats the case class 701s may possibly be peaking around 17mph. You can tell the power sort of stops rising in influx and stays constant there. ( this is probably down to gear ratio too+reduced third rail power specs)
Thr driver definitely uses full power when it wasn't raining you feel slight jerk back, The acceleration just feels more dainty compared to 450s initially. But still flies out the station.
Also consider that my camera has a wider field of view.
@@gapthemind--mindthegap8524 I don't know how they work the values but you work it out like this:
17.2 mph ≈ 17.2 × 0.44704 m/s ≈ 7.684288 m/s
7.684288 m/s / 8 s ≈ 0.960536 m/s^2
Therefore an acceleration of 0.96 up to 17mph
Class 450 have very very reduced power due to their weight and power output which can't be catered for by the substations. I don't know about the other trains you mentioned, however I doubt any of them would be able to do
0.96m/s^2 except maybe the Desiro City in some situations..?
20 seconds to 30mph would be 0.671m/s. When under the initial 0.96m/s^2 ride quality it does 30 in about 18 or so seconds, which is 0.745m/s^2. When it's not going under full power, like in the other clips, it does it in 20.
I've crosschecked this with another acceleration vid and the fastest it can reach 30 is about 17 seconds, 0.789m/s^2.
@@OneTrackMinded with desiros they hit 17mph in quick succession. Then taper off. That could be why they they are rated at 0.9. Also i doubt desiros actually need to be limited the way they are. They weigh the same as some electrostars and yet still the electrostars have a better abundancr of power at the wheels. Perhaps desiros are so bulky with technology that the power is distributed differently by the auxilliary converter? Or maybe its strictly limited by what the timetable requires them for?
Ill link you some of my electrostar videos (some of the dudes in rail forum have a denial problem with GPS footage i find it so odd honestly)
Class 379 acceleration (fastest acceleration of class 379 on internet most likely) (18 seconds to 30mph)
ua-cam.com/video/K6Am59o5Q08/v-deo.htmlsi=6xp096sYIufBMiXN
Class 357 acceleration
ua-cam.com/video/GOCtTntWweA/v-deo.htmlsi=nNmZolK-VkFy8-ln
ua-cam.com/video/kewYkCHsn0Y/v-deo.htmlsi=0g2FatriA4uW39fp
377/6 DC
@@gapthemind--mindthegap8524An 8 car 450 weighs 351.42 t, while a 10 car 701 weights 347.0 t, and a 8 car 377 weights 340t. This means that a 450 requires more power, and as that power isn't there with 3rd rail, it has to be power restricted.
I've compared the 701 acceleration with the 379 and the 701 is able to beat it to up to about 24, with the 701 reaching 17mph in 8 seconds and the 379 doing it in 11. From there, the acceleration basically matches up to 45-50mph where the 379 begins to overtake. Same thing applies for the 357, with it reaching 17mph in 11 seconds, and the 701 beating it to 30 with the 357 reaching it in about 19 seconds while the 701 reaches it in about 17. Afterwards it matches until about 45, like the 379. And of course the 701 significantly beats the 377.
This is very, very impressive considering the 701 is a 3rd Rail DC train, and the 379 and 357 are both 25kv OHLE AC.
What this says to me is the 701 has much superior initial acceleration to most other trains out there, and is then also able to match even AC trains up to around 45mph. However after that is where it drops off, and the AC electrostars are able to beat it. Still is much faster consistently than a DC 377, as well as the Desiro City, where it's able to beat it even at higher speeds.
For fun I also decided to compare it with the 720. It's a very similar story to the AC electrostars, where the 701 achieves 17mph in 8 seconds, and the 720 achieves 17mph in about 12. Then it catches up at around 30mph. Also did a quick comparison with a DC 710. 701 still beats it to 17 but it's very similar as you'd expect.
And finally, and this is a bit pointless, the 345. Funnily enough it's the only train so far to have the same initial acceleration to 17mph in 8 seconds, and then it matches to 20mph where then as you'd expect the 345 is miles ahead.
@OneTrackMinded
Message board for you tube
@OneTrackMinded this is interesting becuase 450s weight relitively the same as 377/5s 375/6s and 387s in 4 car formation. These are vastly superior in most formations to the 450s. 4 and 8 cqr formations noticably.
Another thing to mention is the class 377/6s . In ten car formation they are 412 to 424 tons depending on /6 or /7s in a ten car formation. They blow the 450s out of the park. Its crazy.
Class 377/6 acceleration in 10 car formation
ua-cam.com/video/df8NfU3P2U0/v-deo.htmlsi=uHvWXP83WZREAU0P
Now with regards to class 701s. The fact that they beat most DC trains to 30mph is very impressive makes me wonder what the initial power to weight ratio is on these trains. Id wager that they probably use a bit more power than the class 707s . But at the same time , class 701s have a higher motor rating likely meaning it has a greater starting torque advantage. I.e 1600kw with 8 200kw motors vs 2000kw by 4 ,250kw motors (this doesent mean the 701s or 707s use that full output) this means the motors likely made to utilise a higher starting torque on the class 701s. Interestingly though. Class 710s are supposed to have a 90mph gear ratio so one would assume the motors would have a slightly lower gear ratio and an easier time producing greater motor torque initially. But who knows.
With class 720s (i guess you seen botg my videos. There are three now actually) i assume you did multiple takes on them to clarify that the 701s beat them at lower speeds?
With regards to electrostars, my guess is that the electrostars are limited with how much torque they can release at lower speeds due to firstly being much heavier and potential overloading the motor so likely let out full power as the motor spins faster and has more monentum. I.e release power slower. Secondly apparently it costs more to allow heavier trains to be super fast initially as it can have wear and tear on the tracks faster. And lastly the electrostars are from what it seems like, geared to 115 to 120mph. But are limited to the specs and software. This plus all the other factors regarding relitive weight, and motor torque limits at low speed likely create the low speed acceleration drawbacks.
By the way this is by far the fastest DC electrostar behind class 378.(they are basically the same
Class 376 acceleration (look at how fast it picks up speed after 35mph amd compare that to class 701s, these may actually be faster if given a motor to car ratio of 1 to 1. So 10 motors oer 5 car, as they are only 200kw rating on the 376s.
.ua-cam.com/video/Hm5p4Jwnh9A/v-deo.htmlsi=8AuSGS7FuBwCulg2
The first clip is very impressive. 8 seconds to 17.2 mph is 0.96m/s^2, crazy really.
The other clips, not as much. For example, clip 2, 6 seconds to 8.4 is only about 0.6m/s^2. Clip 3 gets to 7.2 in 4 seconds, which is 0.8m/s^2. And then the rest are under wet weather so further reduced. Unless of course there was some sort of issue with the gps catching up, it is a bit odd how the other video seems to have much better acceleration.
Adding onto the last part of your comment, it's probably just the driver deciding to reduce power for whatever reason. Also it looks like some of the footage might have been taken on different days, so possibly the driver of one unit decided to drive faster while the other much slower
@@OneTrackMinded Yeah that's true