To my ears: 1) The Schilke definitely projects the best by far. 2) The Bach sounds like a typical classic "Concert" trumpet. 3) The Besson sounds like the classic Jazz horn out of the three. Thank you for posting this, quite informative.
Good ear; very good. Having played them all - I'd say your observations are quite keen. Of the three, the sleeper (in my opinion) is the F Besson Meha. It's a great horn and can often be had for $750 or less in good shape.
Jonathan Milam Yeah, Ive seen those Bessons go for quite a bit more here in NY. Great horn but you'd have to pry my '47 Martin Committee from my dead hands first LOL!
Thank you; I'm glad you enjoyed it. I wish I had those same horns and could do this over again, but... Not gonna happen. :) Thanks for watching - and I really appreciate the comment! :)
Jonathan Milam They're amazing. I play a Bach Strad currently, and have loved it. But I am ashamed to admit that after trying Kantsuls at NAMM and getting to know Jack personally, I slightly regret my Strad compared to a 1525
Nice! I've always wanted one of those flugels; nearly got one a few years back used but just missed it (guy sold right before I contacted him). And the 1600 is the one I'd like to try, too. I've come close to getting a couple used ones but didn't have enough money at the moment. I've had a few other Kanstul's though. The French Besson here was a fantastic horn; Phil Driscoll played this model a lot in the 80's when he was sounding so awesome (he never sounds bad, of course). And I've had 3 of the newer French Besson (made by Kanstul for Boosey and Hawkes with considerable input by Marvin Stamm) and they were all great... Ah, so many horns, so little money! :)
Jonathan Milam my problem exactly. Especially being a highschooler. I have a Strad Bb, 1525, 1600, Strad c, strad D/Eb, and a bach pic. I also have a beach soloist with a dizzy style bell, and lastly a Conn French Horn. I need more horns, and love horns so I am currently doing an apprenticeship with Jack Kanstul. I have also been playing for 7+ years.... Still not enough time or money for this Freshman in highschool.
I thought the Besson sounded the warmest to me. The Schilke would be my choice after hearing the Bach's extra bright sound, for all-around play. Thanks for posting.
Thanks for the comment! They're all very nice horns. The Schilke I purchased locally at a pawn shop; almost perfect condition; the owner is a very nice guy and sold it to me at a great price.
Jonathan Milam It's a design that Shilke himself first implemented on the old Holton Revelations, then the Martin's and now Shilke horns. Many other trumpets through the years have taken his reversed leadpipe design.
What I’m noticing with the first piece, is the first horn, the _ is that it has a nice tone, which is also a little do with the player himself haha but also it is slightly wider and darker overall compared to the strad, but then the besson goes ahead and almost is identical to the first horn, except sounds more responsive than the first and second horn, but has a slightly brightest horn.
Just picking the trumpet back up after over 25 years, so I've been watching a ton of UA-cam videos. :-) I liked this one, and while a lot of the time I can't tell a lot of difference, I REALLY liked the warm and softness of the Kanstul above the others. The tone had more personality to me.
Willbros; Greetings! Without doubt those were all three excellent horns. I've never had a bad Strad, the Schilke was outstanding and the F Besson Meha, made by Kanstul, was indeed an incredible horn. Large bore but one of the easiest playing horns I've ever had the priviledge of owning. I think I picked it up for about $500 used, then sold it, as all my horns, after I'd had it a few months. That's the model that Phil Driscoll was using, I believe, when he was on his grammy run in the 80's. For truly great quality, just check out some UA-cam vids of Phil playing then (he's one of my faves, of course). It's said that he never sounded better than on a Meha; I believe it. My advice, for what it's worth, there are a ton of fantastic used horns just waiting for a good player. Save 60-75% and buy used. I've bought many horns at TrumpetHerald.com, a forum where I have also learend a great amount about horns. Good luck - keep in touch! And have a great year - you and your comeback. :)
Thanks Jonathan! I've got the model 25 Bach Strad...it's the large bore. I got it new when I was in 10th grade...a mere 34 years ago! It's still in really good shape, and I took good care of it. I want to have the local shop send it off to have it cleaned and overhauled, but I don't want to go without a horn. I'm probably going to look into buying something used so I have two horns, for that reason, and to also have something different to play. Any suggestions for something that would be signficantly different than the Strad model 25 I have now? I wouldn't want to spend over $750.00 at this point. If I continue to progress, and because life is too short anyway, I will look into a Monette or another really high end horn at some point in the future. For now...it would be wasted money, as I was a much better player in the 9th grade! The comeback started when I took my old King 2 valve bugle from my stint with the Sky Ryders drum and bugle corps, to play charge at some mountain bike races. For some reason...I really enjoyed it, even though it was difficult and I kinda stunk. That led to me picking up the trumpet again. I've played guitar and sang for all these years, so I've always had a musical outlet. The crazy thing about it is...years ago there was a small jazz/big band song playing group around my old home town called "The Retreads." Two older guys played trumpet. I knew them and sat in a few times in HS. Later on, after college...I ran into them again, and told them I had stopped playing, was burned out, and was really into guitar and singing. They both told me..."DON'T SELL YOUR TRUMPET. Hold onto it, because we both did the same thing, and then picked it back up at around age 50." Lo and behold...here I am at 49, and through some pretty bizarre circumstances, I have the horn back out, playing it every evening. I'm really digging playing trumpet again, but the comeback is humbling. I could hit high G's solidly, and after a month back, I'm only just now able to get decent sounding A's just above the staff! I'm hoping to pick up a note every few months and make up that octave in a few years. It's obvious that muscle memory can only get me so far after 30+ years. Tone and technique are coming back pretty quickly, but range and endurance are really lacking. I've focused on long tones, slurs, and mixing in some technical exercises. I'm looking for the best method to increasing range without damaging anything and over-doing it, which is a challenge, because I always have a tendency to go head strong into anything I do. I still have all my old books...Irons, Arban, Gordon, etc. I'm just going through them and doing nothing but exercises to hoepfully speed the process. I'm looking forward to seeing where I end up in about a year of working on it. :-)
With long tones, slurs, etc. - you're doing well. Range, and endurance, should be a natural product of your playing. The great thing about coming back is we're smarter now and more patient....Well, hopefully. :) As far as a good used horn, I've had a ton of great horn and only paid more than $650 for a very, very few. Ebay, but the horn must have GREAT pics, TrumpetHerald.com, Trent Austin at Austin Custom Brass (he's got a nice shop now but used to just sell horns that he picked up.) Trent is a great guy, a very good trumpeter and has a TON of conncections. He always has a lot of used horns in his shop (which is in Mass. I've bought and sold with him several times.). A line that I"d really suggest is CarolBrass. They're made in the Orient and new(ish) but they put out a superb horn. Your Strad 25 was probably large bore and, honestly, has less feedback than any of the Strads that I've experienced, although that may be hard to imagine; I think it's the toughest of the Strad family to play. Any Yamaha or Carol Brass horn you can find in great shape within your price range would be different than the Strad, probably. I have a vid on a Carol 628 (ua-cam.com/video/R7JtBr_sF44/v-deo.html) now the 6280, and also the Carol 6580 (ua-cam.com/video/LO0EwMwBC7k/v-deo.html) both great horns. Check the vids out and let me know what you think soundwise. You make a valid point on the vid of the 3 horns; we generally have a tonal concept that we produce - but the right horn can help us achieve the sound that we want. I prefer a heavier horn and like a mellower tone, but we all differ in our preferences. Lastly, I would only send a horn of mine to be reworked by someone I personally knew. I know of many horns hurt more than helped by repairman. I always cleaned my horns personally and felt they were as clean as anything a shop could do - but I learned more about the horn and cared for it more than any shop, too. My Dad had a great Strad trombone ruined by a shop that tried to clean and buff out his horn; completely ruined. The exception was dents; I found a great dent man in Houston; incredible guy. But I always cleaned them up myself. I loved the cleaning; every valve, cap, slide, etc.
Yes, the Model 25 is the large bore model. When I would pick up one of my fellow players' M/L bore model 37 Strads, I could immediately play a full note higher. But...I couldn't produce as much volume, and the tone was brighter. So...I always just played that Strad and didn't give it much thought. I always liked the darker silver finish and valves on the Getzen, but never played one more than a minute or two. Thanks for the tip on the cleaning. I was thinking about that myself, and I will likely just buy a new snake, get some slide grease, and clean and polish it myself. The cork on my spit valve looks like it's seen better days, but I can probably find a video online regarding how to replace it. I've always cleaned and polished it myself in the past. I'm spoiled becuase there was an outstanding repair service in my old home town that I trusted explicitly, and until you mentioned that...I hadn't even thought about the fact that "all repair shops are not created equal." True in everything else...makes sense it would be true for trumpets as well. I'll have to check out the videos you have linked. I'd like to find a way to get something different...maybe gold, buffed finish, or something like that. My long range goal is to find a fun band or two and play guitar, and trumpet.
I'm happy that you're getting back into playing - it can be great fun. Especially if you can find a venue to play or get your own group together; that can be a blast. Four or five is all you need, depending on if any double as vocalits, etc. For cleaning, if you'll mix 1/3 vinegar with 2/3 Dawn dishwasing detergent and use snakes and valve-cleaning bristle brushes - you're all good to go. I pour about half and half (vinegar and dishwashing detergent) into a large coffee cup and place the valves (with stems and pads removed of course), all the top and bottom caps, and small slides (first, second and third) into this and just let it soak while I clean the body of the horn and large slides with the snake. Vinegar is a very strong cleaner and disinfectant; it is powerful, non-toxic and works great. You won't believe how good your valves will look - it's amazing; almost new in color. To polish, I use a product that I've purchased at Ace Hardware locally called "Flitz"; it's unbelievable. Very non-toxic and I've used it on silver plate, bare brass and gold plated horns. I prefer using it with just my hands so I can feel if I have a smooth, clean feel - but it will blacken your hands as the dirt and/or tarnish comes off; Go-Jo can remove this. Or you can buy the thin, light surgical type gloves (probably a better idea, really) and still have a good feel. Flitz works well with anything but lacquer based horns; they just need reasonably warm water, light soap and a polish rag afterward. Careful if the sink is small; we just got a large, 1 hole kitchen sink and I thought at first I'd died and gone to heaven. :) A small sink and a rush... And you can thump up a good horn. If you're horn is lacquer covered, which is really my choice, don't use too warm a water. If it's silver plate I've never had a problem. The above ideas are from some great pro's at TrumpetHerald.com; all tried and true methods and cleaners. Oh, when putting the horn back together I use strong slide grease on each screw-thread; just a touch and you can feel the material spreading out to provide a good fit. I'm not satisfied until every top and bottom cap works well - better, believe it or not, than most new horns. It's your horn and no one will care for it better. I think you'll be amazed how clean you can get it and how nice it is to take it slowly apart. You can also order corks or pads (neoprene pads for the spit valves may last longer) on Ebay or buy a few at a local music store. Have fun and enjoy!
+James Blackwell James; Greetings and thanks for your comment. I've had a couple of Schilke's and really enjoyed playing them. The valves and slides on both I had were top quality and the horns were both a complete joy to work with. I prefer a lighter bell and medium bore and since Schilke offers both - I'd like to try a few more out, too. Take care and again - thanks for the comment.
Nice tone on the Schilke and preferential, especially for a silver trumpet, it also seems to flow better, we are looking to get a Yamaha though, 4335 GS II.
I’ve been playing trumpet for 50 years. I never owned a Bach. Although classically trained, I mainly play lead in jazz ensembles, so usually always looking for a bright tone. I always considered Bach’s as having a dark tone. Therefore, I am quite surprised, at least in this video, that the Bach appeared to be the brightest of the three. Another issue I have had with Bach, is that they are not responsive enough for my lead jazz playing. It’s like comparing a fighter jet to a commercial airliner. Fast and nimble compared to slow and cumbersome. I’d be curious for your comments on the responsiveness of these three horns. My assumption would be that the Schilke was the most responsive. A lot to do with my two issues, that is, fast and bright versus slow and sluggish, I think has to do, in part, with the weight of the horns. Bach’s are heavy. A trumpet like the Schilke you were playing, is very light weight. Yet another reason why I am baffled that the Bach sounded the brightest.
Bill: Greetings! I'm in agreement; Bach Strad's are not my favorite horns. I've had maybe 10 of them and I've never felt any were bad horns, but a few were quite tight. For me, they just aren't nimble; lip trills are harder, etc. The Schilke, of these three, may well have been the better horn. It was certainly the 'newest' as far as care and mileage went. The shocker of the three, though, was Kanstul's French Besson. What a horn! Large bore, .470, but such an easy horn to fill (and I'm not a big wind guy, either), and it really delivered an exceptional tone, too. This was the horn that Phil Driscoll was using in the '80's during his multi-grammy run. All three were nice horns, but the Schilke and the Besson were both exceptional horns. As far as brightness, I visited a shop in Tulsa where they were making Calichio (sp?) trumpets a few years back. When I watched them put the horns together, especially as they hand-hammered the bells, it made me realize how unlikely it is for any two horns to sound alike. Similar, yes, but not truly alike. So a nice, bright tone from a Strad... Anything in possible, right? :) Thanks for listening - and especially for commenting.
“No two trumpet sound alike.” Yes, that makes me think. It’s a paradox, but I suspect it may be true, that perhaps less expensive mass produced machine made trumpets sound much closer to each other than the more expensive professional level handmade ones. Of course, I would venture to say that the most poorly sounding professional level model is going to sound better than the best machine made one. This is on my mind because I am currently thinking about a new trumpet. The problem is all the local family run music stores that used to be in existence years ago no longer exist. Unless you’re willing to take the time, trouble and money to go across the country somewhere to try out instruments, you’re often left to buying a pig in a poke, sight unseen, not to mention, playing unheard!
Well, you could do what I've done for the last 12 years or so - buy any reasonably priced used pro horn you can get your hands on. After a thorough clean and polish and good pics, it's easy to resell. I don't make much profit, but I've had a blast and played many wonderful horns. When I lived in Houston, it was very easy to find and abundance of nice horns. Craigslist was popular at the time. Now I'm in Charleston, SC., and Facebook's Marketplace is more popular. I often check Pawn Shops and have found a few horns at them. Much smaller population here, further drives are essential (sometimes I'll drive a few hundred miles, but it's a wonderful hobby. :)
Aren't those valves fantastic? I played a Getzen Eterna Severinsen model back in the '80's. Simply magnificent. For some reason, Getzen today seems to fly a bit under the radar. They have a recent model out now that is really attracting attention though; can't for the life of me recall it's name. (how embarassing). I pick up most any model pro-horn I can find if it's used and at a good price... I just don't see many Getzen's in my searches. The smart guys must all be keeping theirs. :) Thanks for commenting! :)
i have been playing a jupiter jtr-1000 horn for a while now and i have a darker tone which i would like to keep with my next horn . and im stuck between the strad and schilke for my next horn which would you recommend
Congrats; either horn should be a great leap forward. As to which horn, that's hard for me to say. If you can play some Strads and Schilke's often one will 'feel' like it fits you better. I buy most of my horns online, so it's much harder to tell - no chance to try it until it arrives. If you're buying online, you can determine which model Strad you like; the 72 is darker, the 43 brighter, the 37 more standard but each has a * option with a lighter bell. With Schilke, you can choose a bore size and bell size that match your play easily... Hope this helps. You can search at Trumpet herald.com for lots of great info on horns, too. Keep in touch - and again - congrats!
I really like making this vid and having these 3 horns at the same time. If I could do the vid over, I'd choose just the right mouthpiece that fit each horn (it'd take 3 different mouthpieces) and then the difference in horns would be muchore noticeable. All great horns; the Schilke was a magnificent player. I really didn't do any of these horns justice... But I had a blast playing them. :)
That could well be. I couldn't remember when I had all of these horns together - this is one of the first vids I made, 2013... 10 Years ago. :) Still, Kanstul's Besson Meha is a fine horn, I've had a few others since then. The Schilke and Bach are fine horns too - but I imagine the Meha was the easier horn to play. Thanks for commenting! :)
Yes; it's hard to beat a Strad. I've had several and never disliked any of them. The F Besson Meha here is a really nice horn though; a great solo horn, in my opinion; big sound (should be, it's large bore). The Schilke, to me, was a nimble horn to get around on. Frankly, I could be happy with any of them as my only horn. Thanks for the comment!
+darylynn621 Yes, the play along stuff is great for those of us who don't have a lot of live back-up. I have a ton of sound tracks I really enjoy playing along with - live music, too; whatever gets the juices flowing. :)
Rj Thompson Rj; I've never played one but have heard rave reviews. I did play a Vizzuti model once and felt it was one of the finer horns I'd had my hands on. If you ever see me do a demo on a ytr-9335NYS you'll know I hit the jackpot. :)
Hey, I have a 1969 conn director copper bell Bb trumpet, I am looking for something with a brighter and more....orchestral sound, can you help with a suggestion?
+Texplays I'll try. Most any horn with a brass bell will probably project a little clearer; that may help. Do you have a budget or amount you're willing to spend?
well, I have close to a 3 grand spending budget, I here brass is bright, mostly since I am a high school students who recently dropped from a band program, my thing is that my current horn is mostly a Jazz trumpet, I love that sound but really I need more power from the tone alone
+Texplays Well with the money you've got you should be able to find a good horn. If you're able to visit a music store that has some trumpets - play all you can. If you find one you like - you can buy it or find a used trumpet of the same model. I've had a few copper bells and really liked them. My personal preference is a thin brass bell; I think these can be 'colored' more. I've got a fantastic Blessing 1580 now that sounds hauntingly dark and mellow with a deep V cupped mouthpiece (Trent Austin's TF mouthpiece) and it can really carry with a Bob Reeves mouthpiece - I like a versatile horn, one that can 'do it all'. I'll have a review up of the Blessing 1580 before long. wwbw.com has the satin version of this horn on clearance right now. MSRP usually $2950 (although no one should ever pay that price) reduced now to around $775. A GREAT horn at that price; I'm really enjoying the one I have. Here's the website... www.wwbw.com/Blessing-BTR-1580B-Classic-Series-Bb-Trumpet-H96633-i3068888.wwbw
Actually to me, it sounds like you may really need to try more mouthpieces and concentrate more on the tones you are projecting. I've found over too many years of playing that this is the case almost more than anything else. Having said that, good symphonic horns in my arsenal are the Bach Strads, and the open bore Schilke's B3 and X3. My King Super 20 Symphony II, has a big projected sound too, when you put the jets to it a bit. Best advice...get to a music store and play as many horns as possible. Also...no need to spend 3 grand to get a damned good horn. Just remember that physically heavier, open larger bores, in both the mouthpiece and lead-pipes through the valve casings, will generally produce your big sound. Remember to think "project", when you play. So many players play "within" the trumpet, you need to think about projecting "out" of the horn. Good hunting my friend!
The last one was the F Besson Meha remake by Kanstul. What a great model; large bore but easy to play. That's the horn that Phil Driscoll was using when he was on his grammy run in the 80's. Phenomenal horn; just a blast to play. Always nice to hear from you, Paul. :)
I've only had two Schilke's, but neither played tight. Still, I didn't think they were too open. My recollection is that they are really well made, very comfortable in the hand - and I love the tone. This Schilke was a medium bore but such a nice, easy playing horn. I miss it!! :)
What about a classic old Martin Committee? I blow a Flip Oakes Wild Thing which is also very nice.. it's made by Kanstul to Mr. Oakes specifications. Any horn is only as great as the person playing it. All in all a nice video :)
David; Greetings! Martin's are quite rare and usually vastly overpriced. Like many vintage horns, finding a good playing one in good shape is difficult. Chris Botti obviously succeeded but he's also commented on intonation problems with his (kind of a love/hate relationship if I recall him correctly). The only Martin horn I had was not worthy of a video but who knows about the next one... :) I haven't played a Wild Thing but have a friend here in Houston that purchased one recently. My preference is to smaller belled horns, personally. I did have a great Callet Jazz - said by some to share some characteristics with the WT. Make a vid of yours and send a link - I'd love to hear it. Take care and thanks for the comment.
+darylynn621 Daryl; Greetings. I've watched a lot of UA-cam vids about basic horn repair and manufacturing but I can't recall a channel dedicated specifically to repair. What city/area are you in? At TrumpetHerald.com (a favorite spot of mine on the web) occasionally someone with inquire (usually begin a thread) asking about repairmen in certain areas/cities. When I moved to Houston several years back I asked about quality repairmen and received some great leads.
Thank you for your reply, I am North of Houston.,Magnolia area, but seldom travel now,due to polio and age, I enjoy conserving things ,I had a very tech oriented life,in multiple industries.
Thanks for listening! If I could do this vid over again I'd use the best mouthpiece for each horn; the one that drew out each instruments best qualities... I think that would make for a better vid. Still, the head to head comparison is interesting. I agree with you; the Schilke is a bit brighter. It was a great horn! So was the Kanstul; I wish I'd have kept both of them. The Kanstul, for a large bore, was such an easy horn to play. Really liked that one; not to expensive but an excellent player. I think I paid around $600 for it and got a super case included. The Schilke, for me, was about as high as I pay for a trumpet; I think I paid $1,200 (which was a steal for a Schilke in like-new condition). Anyway - thanks for listening and commenting. Continued best wishes, Jonathan
Yes; I agree. We are only as good as our practice. Speaking of which....Well, it's time for me to practice (lots!!!!!). :) Thanks for the comment, Nicholas. It reminds me of something my Dad told me (he was an accomplished violinist). He said that a great violinist was once asked why he practiced so much. He was said to have responded, "If I miss one day of practice - I know it. If I miss two days of practice - my fellow players know it. If I miss three days of practice - my audience knows it". Very true. My problem is finding enough time to practice each day. I can almost always carve out a few minutes a day - but I probably need at least 45 - 90 to maintain my peak and find improvement; and I haven't had many weeks where I could give 90 minutes a day with my schedule the last few years... It shows.
Thanks for your comment. The Schilke was just about like new condition, a really nice horn. The Bach had wear but was a fine player; but a Bach is a Bach to my way of thinking - very fine but not often notable. The French Besson by Kanstul was a really nice horn. Older, well used but an easy blow and a nice horn. TheHighTower - thanks for your comment; I appreciate you tuning in.
To my ears: 1) The Schilke definitely projects the best by far. 2) The Bach sounds like a typical classic "Concert" trumpet. 3) The Besson sounds like the classic Jazz horn out of the three. Thank you for posting this, quite informative.
Good ear; very good. Having played them all - I'd say your observations are quite keen. Of the three, the sleeper (in my opinion) is the F Besson Meha. It's a great horn and can often be had for $750 or less in good shape.
Jonathan Milam
Yeah, Ive seen those Bessons go for quite a bit more here in NY. Great horn but you'd have to pry my '47 Martin Committee from my dead hands first LOL!
I agree. The Schilke had a nice forward lead tone, the Bach sounded more muffled, and the Besson almost sounded like Maynard Ferguson was playing it.
They all sound like trumpets.
But they all sound different. To you, they may sound like trumpets, but more experienced players can hear the differences.
Great observation 😂
GREAT VIDEO! LOVED IT! LEARNED SOMETHING NEW! LOVE ALL OF THE TRUMPETS, THEY ALL SOUND GREAT!
Thank you; I'm glad you enjoyed it. I wish I had those same horns and could do this over again, but... Not gonna happen. :) Thanks for watching - and I really appreciate the comment! :)
The handmade, unique feel of Kanstul, mixed with their slight imperfections eminate their one of a kind sound. By far my favorite horn company.
Good to hear from you, Cage. I've had a few Kanstul horns - but not enough. :)
Jonathan Milam They're amazing. I play a Bach Strad currently, and have loved it. But I am ashamed to admit that after trying Kantsuls at NAMM and getting to know Jack personally, I slightly regret my Strad compared to a 1525
*1600, my flugel is a 1525.
Nice! I've always wanted one of those flugels; nearly got one a few years back used but just missed it (guy sold right before I contacted him). And the 1600 is the one I'd like to try, too. I've come close to getting a couple used ones but didn't have enough money at the moment. I've had a few other Kanstul's though. The French Besson here was a fantastic horn; Phil Driscoll played this model a lot in the 80's when he was sounding so awesome (he never sounds bad, of course). And I've had 3 of the newer French Besson (made by Kanstul for Boosey and Hawkes with considerable input by Marvin Stamm) and they were all great... Ah, so many horns, so little money! :)
Jonathan Milam my problem exactly. Especially being a highschooler. I have a Strad Bb, 1525, 1600, Strad c, strad D/Eb, and a bach pic. I also have a beach soloist with a dizzy style bell, and lastly a Conn French Horn. I need more horns, and love horns so I am currently doing an apprenticeship with Jack Kanstul. I have also been playing for 7+ years.... Still not enough time or money for this Freshman in highschool.
I thought the Besson sounded the warmest to me. The Schilke would be my choice after hearing the Bach's extra bright sound, for all-around play. Thanks for posting.
Thanks for the comment! They're all very nice horns. The Schilke I purchased locally at a pawn shop; almost perfect condition; the owner is a very nice guy and sold it to me at a great price.
The Schilke has a reverse leadpipe, that's the reason or the placement o the bell brace.
That's a very good point with the reversed leadpipe, Doug; the brace placement has to be higher on the bell.
Jonathan Milam
It's a design that Shilke himself first implemented on the old Holton Revelations, then the Martin's and now Shilke horns. Many other trumpets through the years have taken his reversed leadpipe design.
What I’m noticing with the first piece, is the first horn, the _ is that it has a nice tone, which is also a little do with the player himself haha but also it is slightly wider and darker overall compared to the strad, but then the besson goes ahead and almost is identical to the first horn, except sounds more responsive than the first and second horn, but has a slightly brightest horn.
Just picking the trumpet back up after over 25 years, so I've been watching a ton of UA-cam videos. :-) I liked this one, and while a lot of the time I can't tell a lot of difference, I REALLY liked the warm and softness of the Kanstul above the others. The tone had more personality to me.
Willbros; Greetings! Without doubt those were all three excellent horns. I've never had a bad Strad, the Schilke was outstanding and the F Besson Meha, made by Kanstul, was indeed an incredible horn. Large bore but one of the easiest playing horns I've ever had the priviledge of owning. I think I picked it up for about $500 used, then sold it, as all my horns, after I'd had it a few months. That's the model that Phil Driscoll was using, I believe, when he was on his grammy run in the 80's. For truly great quality, just check out some UA-cam vids of Phil playing then (he's one of my faves, of course). It's said that he never sounded better than on a Meha; I believe it. My advice, for what it's worth, there are a ton of fantastic used horns just waiting for a good player. Save 60-75% and buy used. I've bought many horns at TrumpetHerald.com, a forum where I have also learend a great amount about horns. Good luck - keep in touch! And have a great year - you and your comeback. :)
Thanks Jonathan! I've got the model 25 Bach Strad...it's the large bore. I got it new when I was in 10th grade...a mere 34 years ago! It's still in really good shape, and I took good care of it. I want to have the local shop send it off to have it cleaned and overhauled, but I don't want to go without a horn. I'm probably going to look into buying something used so I have two horns, for that reason, and to also have something different to play. Any suggestions for something that would be signficantly different than the Strad model 25 I have now? I wouldn't want to spend over $750.00 at this point. If I continue to progress, and because life is too short anyway, I will look into a Monette or another really high end horn at some point in the future. For now...it would be wasted money, as I was a much better player in the 9th grade!
The comeback started when I took my old King 2 valve bugle from my stint with the Sky Ryders drum and bugle corps, to play charge at some mountain bike races. For some reason...I really enjoyed it, even though it was difficult and I kinda stunk. That led to me picking up the trumpet again. I've played guitar and sang for all these years, so I've always had a musical outlet. The crazy thing about it is...years ago there was a small jazz/big band song playing group around my old home town called "The Retreads." Two older guys played trumpet. I knew them and sat in a few times in HS. Later on, after college...I ran into them again, and told them I had stopped playing, was burned out, and was really into guitar and singing. They both told me..."DON'T SELL YOUR TRUMPET. Hold onto it, because we both did the same thing, and then picked it back up at around age 50." Lo and behold...here I am at 49, and through some pretty bizarre circumstances, I have the horn back out, playing it every evening.
I'm really digging playing trumpet again, but the comeback is humbling. I could hit high G's solidly, and after a month back, I'm only just now able to get decent sounding A's just above the staff! I'm hoping to pick up a note every few months and make up that octave in a few years. It's obvious that muscle memory can only get me so far after 30+ years.
Tone and technique are coming back pretty quickly, but range and endurance are really lacking. I've focused on long tones, slurs, and mixing in some technical exercises. I'm looking for the best method to increasing range without damaging anything and over-doing it, which is a challenge, because I always have a tendency to go head strong into anything I do.
I still have all my old books...Irons, Arban, Gordon, etc. I'm just going through them and doing nothing but exercises to hoepfully speed the process. I'm looking forward to seeing where I end up in about a year of working on it. :-)
With long tones, slurs, etc. - you're doing well. Range, and endurance, should be a natural product of your playing. The great thing about coming back is we're smarter now and more patient....Well, hopefully. :) As far as a good used horn, I've had a ton of great horn and only paid more than $650 for a very, very few. Ebay, but the horn must have GREAT pics, TrumpetHerald.com, Trent Austin at Austin Custom Brass (he's got a nice shop now but used to just sell horns that he picked up.) Trent is a great guy, a very good trumpeter and has a TON of conncections. He always has a lot of used horns in his shop (which is in Mass. I've bought and sold with him several times.). A line that I"d really suggest is CarolBrass. They're made in the Orient and new(ish) but they put out a superb horn. Your Strad 25 was probably large bore and, honestly, has less feedback than any of the Strads that I've experienced, although that may be hard to imagine; I think it's the toughest of the Strad family to play. Any Yamaha or Carol Brass horn you can find in great shape within your price range would be different than the Strad, probably. I have a vid on a Carol 628 (ua-cam.com/video/R7JtBr_sF44/v-deo.html) now the 6280, and also the Carol 6580 (ua-cam.com/video/LO0EwMwBC7k/v-deo.html) both great horns. Check the vids out and let me know what you think soundwise. You make a valid point on the vid of the 3 horns; we generally have a tonal concept that we produce - but the right horn can help us achieve the sound that we want. I prefer a heavier horn and like a mellower tone, but we all differ in our preferences. Lastly, I would only send a horn of mine to be reworked by someone I personally knew. I know of many horns hurt more than helped by repairman. I always cleaned my horns personally and felt they were as clean as anything a shop could do - but I learned more about the horn and cared for it more than any shop, too. My Dad had a great Strad trombone ruined by a shop that tried to clean and buff out his horn; completely ruined. The exception was dents; I found a great dent man in Houston; incredible guy. But I always cleaned them up myself. I loved the cleaning; every valve, cap, slide, etc.
Yes, the Model 25 is the large bore model. When I would pick up one of my fellow players' M/L bore model 37 Strads, I could immediately play a full note higher. But...I couldn't produce as much volume, and the tone was brighter. So...I always just played that Strad and didn't give it much thought. I always liked the darker silver finish and valves on the Getzen, but never played one more than a minute or two.
Thanks for the tip on the cleaning. I was thinking about that myself, and I will likely just buy a new snake, get some slide grease, and clean and polish it myself. The cork on my spit valve looks like it's seen better days, but I can probably find a video online regarding how to replace it. I've always cleaned and polished it myself in the past. I'm spoiled becuase there was an outstanding repair service in my old home town that I trusted explicitly, and until you mentioned that...I hadn't even thought about the fact that "all repair shops are not created equal." True in everything else...makes sense it would be true for trumpets as well.
I'll have to check out the videos you have linked. I'd like to find a way to get something different...maybe gold, buffed finish, or something like that. My long range goal is to find a fun band or two and play guitar, and trumpet.
I'm happy that you're getting back into playing - it can be great fun. Especially if you can find a venue to play or get your own group together; that can be a blast. Four or five is all you need, depending on if any double as vocalits, etc.
For cleaning, if you'll mix 1/3 vinegar with 2/3 Dawn dishwasing detergent and use snakes and valve-cleaning bristle brushes - you're all good to go. I pour about half and half (vinegar and dishwashing detergent) into a large coffee cup and place the valves (with stems and pads removed of course), all the top and bottom caps, and small slides (first, second and third) into this and just let it soak while I clean the body of the horn and large slides with the snake. Vinegar is a very strong cleaner and disinfectant; it is powerful, non-toxic and works great. You won't believe how good your valves will look - it's amazing; almost new in color.
To polish, I use a product that I've purchased at Ace Hardware locally called "Flitz"; it's unbelievable. Very non-toxic and I've used it on silver plate, bare brass and gold plated horns. I prefer using it with just my hands so I can feel if I have a smooth, clean feel - but it will blacken your hands as the dirt and/or tarnish comes off; Go-Jo can remove this. Or you can buy the thin, light surgical type gloves (probably a better idea, really) and still have a good feel. Flitz works well with anything but lacquer based horns; they just need reasonably warm water, light soap and a polish rag afterward.
Careful if the sink is small; we just got a large, 1 hole kitchen sink and I thought at first I'd died and gone to heaven. :) A small sink and a rush... And you can thump up a good horn. If you're horn is lacquer covered, which is really my choice, don't use too warm a water. If it's silver plate I've never had a problem.
The above ideas are from some great pro's at TrumpetHerald.com; all tried and true methods and cleaners. Oh, when putting the horn back together I use strong slide grease on each screw-thread; just a touch and you can feel the material spreading out to provide a good fit. I'm not satisfied until every top and bottom cap works well - better, believe it or not, than most new horns.
It's your horn and no one will care for it better. I think you'll be amazed how clean you can get it and how nice it is to take it slowly apart. You can also order corks or pads (neoprene pads for the spit valves may last longer) on Ebay or buy a few at a local music store. Have fun and enjoy!
Nice comparison vid - always been interested in trying a Schilke
+James Blackwell James; Greetings and thanks for your comment. I've had a couple of Schilke's and really enjoyed playing them. The valves and slides on both I had were top quality and the horns were both a complete joy to work with. I prefer a lighter bell and medium bore and since Schilke offers both - I'd like to try a few more out, too. Take care and again - thanks for the comment.
Nice tone on the Schilke and preferential, especially for a silver trumpet, it also seems to flow better, we are looking to get a Yamaha though, 4335 GS II.
I’ve been playing trumpet for 50 years. I never owned a Bach. Although classically trained, I mainly play lead in jazz ensembles, so usually always looking for a bright tone. I always considered Bach’s as having a dark tone. Therefore, I am quite surprised, at least in this video, that the Bach appeared to be the brightest of the three.
Another issue I have had with Bach, is that they are not responsive enough for my lead jazz playing. It’s like comparing a fighter jet to a commercial airliner. Fast and nimble compared to slow and cumbersome. I’d be curious for your comments on the responsiveness of these three horns. My assumption would be that the Schilke was the most responsive.
A lot to do with my two issues, that is, fast and bright versus slow and sluggish, I think has to do, in part, with the weight of the horns. Bach’s are heavy. A trumpet like the Schilke you were playing, is very light weight. Yet another reason why I am baffled that the Bach sounded the brightest.
Bill: Greetings! I'm in agreement; Bach Strad's are not my favorite horns. I've had maybe 10 of them and I've never felt any were bad horns, but a few were quite tight. For me, they just aren't nimble; lip trills are harder, etc. The Schilke, of these three, may well have been the better horn. It was certainly the 'newest' as far as care and mileage went. The shocker of the three, though, was Kanstul's French Besson. What a horn! Large bore, .470, but such an easy horn to fill (and I'm not a big wind guy, either), and it really delivered an exceptional tone, too. This was the horn that Phil Driscoll was using in the '80's during his multi-grammy run. All three were nice horns, but the Schilke and the Besson were both exceptional horns. As far as brightness, I visited a shop in Tulsa where they were making Calichio (sp?) trumpets a few years back. When I watched them put the horns together, especially as they hand-hammered the bells, it made me realize how unlikely it is for any two horns to sound alike. Similar, yes, but not truly alike. So a nice, bright tone from a Strad... Anything in possible, right? :) Thanks for listening - and especially for commenting.
“No two trumpet sound alike.” Yes, that makes me think. It’s a paradox, but I suspect it may be true, that perhaps less expensive mass produced machine made trumpets sound much closer to each other than the more expensive professional level handmade ones. Of course, I would venture to say that the most poorly sounding professional level model is going to sound better than the best machine made one.
This is on my mind because I am currently thinking about a new trumpet. The problem is all the local family run music stores that used to be in existence years ago no longer exist. Unless you’re willing to take the time, trouble and money to go across the country somewhere to try out instruments, you’re often left to buying a pig in a poke, sight unseen, not to mention, playing unheard!
Well, you could do what I've done for the last 12 years or so - buy any reasonably priced used pro horn you can get your hands on. After a thorough clean and polish and good pics, it's easy to resell. I don't make much profit, but I've had a blast and played many wonderful horns. When I lived in Houston, it was very easy to find and abundance of nice horns. Craigslist was popular at the time. Now I'm in Charleston, SC., and Facebook's Marketplace is more popular. I often check Pawn Shops and have found a few horns at them. Much smaller population here, further drives are essential (sometimes I'll drive a few hundred miles, but it's a wonderful hobby. :)
How about a Getzen ? They are treated like a step child of Trumpets . I bought a 700S .The value action is 👍
Aren't those valves fantastic? I played a Getzen Eterna Severinsen model back in the '80's. Simply magnificent. For some reason, Getzen today seems to fly a bit under the radar. They have a recent model out now that is really attracting attention though; can't for the life of me recall it's name. (how embarassing). I pick up most any model pro-horn I can find if it's used and at a good price... I just don't see many Getzen's in my searches. The smart guys must all be keeping theirs. :) Thanks for commenting! :)
@@JonathanMilam1 I bought my new Getzen 700s at Chuck Levins in DC. Great store $960
i have been playing a jupiter jtr-1000 horn for a while now and i have a darker tone which i would like to keep with my next horn . and im stuck between the strad and schilke for my next horn which would you recommend
Congrats; either horn should be a great leap forward. As to which horn, that's hard for me to say. If you can play some Strads and Schilke's often one will 'feel' like it fits you better. I buy most of my horns online, so it's much harder to tell - no chance to try it until it arrives. If you're buying online, you can determine which model Strad you like; the 72 is darker, the 43 brighter, the 37 more standard but each has a * option with a lighter bell. With Schilke, you can choose a bore size and bell size that match your play easily... Hope this helps. You can search at Trumpet herald.com for lots of great info on horns, too. Keep in touch - and again - congrats!
The Schilke has a distinctive, drier sound and I'm not sure whether I like it or not.
I really like making this vid and having these 3 horns at the same time. If I could do the vid over, I'd choose just the right mouthpiece that fit each horn (it'd take 3 different mouthpieces) and then the difference in horns would be muchore noticeable. All great horns; the Schilke was a magnificent player. I really didn't do any of these horns justice... But I had a blast playing them. :)
You definitely sound best on the Besson. Bit of a struggle with the others.
That could well be. I couldn't remember when I had all of these horns together - this is one of the first vids I made, 2013... 10 Years ago. :) Still, Kanstul's Besson Meha is a fine horn, I've had a few others since then. The Schilke and Bach are fine horns too - but I imagine the Meha was the easier horn to play. Thanks for commenting! :)
I can't say why, but I prefer the sound of the Bach. Maybe because it's what I'm most used to hearing. All three are very nice, though.
Yes; it's hard to beat a Strad. I've had several and never disliked any of them. The F Besson Meha here is a really nice horn though; a great solo horn, in my opinion; big sound (should be, it's large bore). The Schilke, to me, was a nimble horn to get around on. Frankly, I could be happy with any of them as my only horn. Thanks for the comment!
I just heard/saw some thing nice, on UA-cam, Morricone Moment by Bora Martinez Alegre , has sheet music for play along.
+darylynn621 Yes, the play along stuff is great for those of us who don't have a lot of live back-up. I have a ton of sound tracks I really enjoy playing along with - live music, too; whatever gets the juices flowing. :)
Yamaha ytr-9335NYS is a pretty nice horn to
Rj Thompson Rj; I've never played one but have heard rave reviews. I did play a Vizzuti model once and felt it was one of the finer horns I'd had my hands on. If you ever see me do a demo on a ytr-9335NYS you'll know I hit the jackpot. :)
Hey, I have a 1969 conn director copper bell Bb trumpet, I am looking for something with a brighter and more....orchestral sound, can you help with a suggestion?
+Texplays I'll try. Most any horn with a brass bell will probably project a little clearer; that may help. Do you have a budget or amount you're willing to spend?
well, I have close to a 3 grand spending budget, I here brass is bright, mostly since I am a high school students who recently dropped from a band program, my thing is that my current horn is mostly a Jazz trumpet, I love that sound but really I need more power from the tone alone
+Texplays Well with the money you've got you should be able to find a good horn. If you're able to visit a music store that has some trumpets - play all you can. If you find one you like - you can buy it or find a used trumpet of the same model. I've had a few copper bells and really liked them. My personal preference is a thin brass bell; I think these can be 'colored' more. I've got a fantastic Blessing 1580 now that sounds hauntingly dark and mellow with a deep V cupped mouthpiece (Trent Austin's TF mouthpiece) and it can really carry with a Bob Reeves mouthpiece - I like a versatile horn, one that can 'do it all'. I'll have a review up of the Blessing 1580 before long. wwbw.com has the satin version of this horn on clearance right now. MSRP usually $2950 (although no one should ever pay that price) reduced now to around $775. A GREAT horn at that price; I'm really enjoying the one I have. Here's the website... www.wwbw.com/Blessing-BTR-1580B-Classic-Series-Bb-Trumpet-H96633-i3068888.wwbw
thank you sir
Actually to me, it sounds like you may really need to try more mouthpieces and concentrate more on the tones you are projecting. I've found over too many years of playing that this is the case almost more than anything else. Having said that, good symphonic horns in my arsenal are the Bach Strads, and the open bore Schilke's B3 and X3. My King Super 20 Symphony II, has a big projected sound too, when you put the jets to it a bit. Best advice...get to a music store and play as many horns as possible. Also...no need to spend 3 grand to get a damned good horn. Just remember that physically heavier, open larger bores, in both the mouthpiece and lead-pipes through the valve casings, will generally produce your big sound. Remember to think "project", when you play. So many players play "within" the trumpet, you need to think about projecting "out" of the horn. Good hunting my friend!
The last trumpet was my favorite
The last one was the F Besson Meha remake by Kanstul. What a great model; large bore but easy to play. That's the horn that Phil Driscoll was using when he was on his grammy run in the 80's. Phenomenal horn; just a blast to play. Always nice to hear from you, Paul. :)
I’ve seen the claim in the past that Schilke trumpets are exceptionally free-blowing.
I've only had two Schilke's, but neither played tight. Still, I didn't think they were too open. My recollection is that they are really well made, very comfortable in the hand - and I love the tone. This Schilke was a medium bore but such a nice, easy playing horn. I miss it!! :)
What about a classic old Martin Committee? I blow a Flip Oakes Wild Thing which is also very nice.. it's made by Kanstul to Mr. Oakes specifications. Any horn is only as great as the person playing it. All in all a nice video :)
David; Greetings! Martin's are quite rare and usually vastly overpriced. Like many vintage horns, finding a good playing one in good shape is difficult. Chris Botti obviously succeeded but he's also commented on intonation problems with his (kind of a love/hate relationship if I recall him correctly). The only Martin horn I had was not worthy of a video but who knows about the next one... :)
I haven't played a Wild Thing but have a friend here in Houston that purchased one recently. My preference is to smaller belled horns, personally. I did have a great Callet Jazz - said by some to share some characteristics with the WT. Make a vid of yours and send a link - I'd love to hear it. Take care and thanks for the comment.
what was that sound at the very beginning of the video?
+Aaron Hastie Good catch, Aaron. That would be me clearing my throat. :)
+Jonathan Milam Ah, I was wondering
I think we need that nine old trumpet player to show us the way.
I liked the bach the best i play one too
Thank you! Bach does make an excellent horn. :)
Is there a UA-cam channel about Horn Repair? I am retired most of my horns are rescued from the world.
+darylynn621 Daryl; Greetings. I've watched a lot of UA-cam vids about basic horn repair and manufacturing but I can't recall a channel dedicated specifically to repair. What city/area are you in? At TrumpetHerald.com (a favorite spot of mine on the web) occasionally someone with inquire (usually begin a thread) asking about repairmen in certain areas/cities. When I moved to Houston several years back I asked about quality repairmen and received some great leads.
Thank you for your reply, I am North of Houston.,Magnolia area, but seldom travel now,due to polio and age, I enjoy conserving things ,I had a very tech oriented life,in multiple industries.
Absolutely Bach
Gotta say; I've never had a bad Strad. :)
as cinta si eu la asa trompeta!!!!!
Kanstul just a tad less bright than the Shilke 42.
Thanks for listening! If I could do this vid over again I'd use the best mouthpiece for each horn; the one that drew out each instruments best qualities... I think that would make for a better vid. Still, the head to head comparison is interesting. I agree with you; the Schilke is a bit brighter. It was a great horn! So was the Kanstul; I wish I'd have kept both of them. The Kanstul, for a large bore, was such an easy horn to play. Really liked that one; not to expensive but an excellent player. I think I paid around $600 for it and got a super case included. The Schilke, for me, was about as high as I pay for a trumpet; I think I paid $1,200 (which was a steal for a Schilke in like-new condition). Anyway - thanks for listening and commenting. Continued best wishes, Jonathan
For as long as I have played trumpet,I have learned that you will always need practice, always.
Yes; I agree. We are only as good as our practice. Speaking of which....Well, it's time for me to practice (lots!!!!!). :) Thanks for the comment, Nicholas.
It reminds me of something my Dad told me (he was an accomplished violinist). He said that a great violinist was once asked why he practiced so much. He was said to have responded, "If I miss one day of practice - I know it. If I miss two days of practice - my fellow players know it. If I miss three days of practice - my audience knows it". Very true. My problem is finding enough time to practice each day. I can almost always carve out a few minutes a day - but I probably need at least 45 - 90 to maintain my peak and find improvement; and I haven't had many weeks where I could give 90 minutes a day with my schedule the last few years... It shows.
The Bach Stradivarius is the WORST trumpet to play lead, it’s true.
Chissà che me credevo che sonava...
Pensavo Haydn.... Hummel....
The Bach certainly is at the bottom of the Comparison.
Shilke on top, Besson second and then Bach. The Bach just sound so bland and boring.
Thanks for your comment. The Schilke was just about like new condition, a really nice horn. The Bach had wear but was a fine player; but a Bach is a Bach to my way of thinking - very fine but not often notable. The French Besson by Kanstul was a really nice horn. Older, well used but an easy blow and a nice horn. TheHighTower - thanks for your comment; I appreciate you tuning in.
True