Thomas Lang: "Traditional Grip Vs Matched Grip" (Drum Lesson)
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- Опубліковано 13 чер 2021
- LEGGI LA LEZIONE COMPLETA: www.accordo.it/article/viewPu...
"Immaginiamo che una scimmia afferri una bacchetta per colpire qualcosa: come la impugnerà?" E' più o meno così che Thomas Lang, inizia una serie di approfondite considerazioni a confronto tra le due principali impugnature batteristiche: Traditional Grip e Match Grip.
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Absolutely the most thoughtful commentary on the subject, and Thomas is comes across as so friendly and humble!
Thomas is a lot frindly and humble.
I’m not a “trained” drummer, so I never developed my traditional grip. I play around with it when practicing some rudiments sometimes, but Thomas is absolutely right. There isn’t a practical reason for traditional grip anymore. HOWEVER…the traditional grip CAN add textures and ghost notes that matched doesn’t do for me. It feels correct to play jazz with a traditional grip to allow the softer touch to come through with all kinds of little goodies and textures. But ultimately, matched grip is the best for an overall drumming utility. Excellent discussion, Thomas!!
>the traditional grip CAN add textures and ghost notes that matched doesn’t do for me
I would argue that's due to a lack of development in the matched grip rather than an intrinsic fault of the grip. Not to say you aren't doing matched right, but there's no inherent reason you couldn't achieve those same textures and ghost notes with matched grip given enough time to develop it. That includes the softer touches needed for jazz imo, though of course there is subjectivity and if it feels right to play jazz with traditional grip there's nothing wrong with that
@@bighouse5804 yes, matched grip, especially open handed development >traditional. Lack of nuance is just lack of development. "Traditional" ghost notes and textures...that implies the right hand holding like the conventional matched grip can't do those things. Zero logic there.
I'm so glad someone finally put this tradition under logical scrutiny. For years those of us who played matched have been criticized for no good reason. In fact, it is healthier and more natural.
Matched is so much more Natural....
Tell this secret to Dave & Vinnie!
@@nikoshatzimichael984 Both dave and vinnie had hand injuries from playing traditional even though they do it so well. Dave also said in a clinic that if he were to start over he would learn matched every time
does anyone know why when I drum (or most drummers drum)our muscles wanna do that thing where we're biting our gums or whatever it is?
i never ever noticed drummers doing it.....until i became a drummer 3 years ago....and then I looked at all kinds of drummers on YT and most do it too!
so weird!
it's not healthier, it's not more natural. match grip seems that way because you suck at traditional.
There`s just one thing about traditional grip that made me pick it over a matched one - it looks WAY cooler)))
i do think soooo
could be bro, but the problem in my case is when you have to play latin music and needs to play the cowbell with your left hand, is almost impossible and meaningless, I started too with traditional but have to change it and in my surprise, I get way better with my left hand while practicing common cowbell pattern. I simply do not have the time to practice traditional grip so, yes it looks cooler but I have not seen any drummer playing a cowbell pattern with traditional grip 🤷♂🤷♂
When I started in 1983, I didn't know any better, so I started with match grip. After a 20 year layoff, I played match again, but I felt the tug to play traditional grip. I have found that traditional grip is useful when playing more rudimental patterns. Its certainly fun to switch between the two.
I don’t play drums at all but I watched the entire thing and enjoyed every second. Really insightful stuff from the history to the thought processes and dedication to the craft.
I remember Neil Peart going from matched to traditional grip, but he also changed back again due to the limitation it put on him especially with regard to power. Great to hear such a logical explanation... thanks 👍
For me a great benefit of traditional grip is, that the stick is not controlled behind the fulcrum but before or at the fulcrum. That´s extremely useful for playing soft. I think it's no coincidence that the traditional grip lastet very long in classical jazz styles, because swing comping requires exactely that.
So, you can’t play quiet with your right hand? To me, there’s just a lot of motivated reasoning with traditional grip. People are taught that way, and then they work their way backwards to justify why it’s better. As soon as you could put the drum at any angle you wanted, that grip became obsolete and unnecessary. About the only time it might have some benefit is if you’re playing brushes, which might require a movement in your left hand that matched grip can’t do.
@@jordanvincenzo464 Of course you can play quiet with the matched grip, I just find it easier to do so with traditional grip, because there is no leverage in the process. But you are right: it only makes sense if you are already a traditional grip player. I would never recommend learning traditional grip to a matched grip player just for playing soft. But I wouldn't do so for playing brushes either. On the contrary: there are several aspects in playing the brushes that are easier to master with matched grip.
To me traditional and matched grip are really the same grip. I found that be learning traditional grip it also helped me understand the match grip mutch better.
@@jordanvincenzo464you just mad cause you can’t play traditional, admit it.
@@grafikdrummerbrushes are definitely not easier match grip, you’re drunk.
I switched to traditional grip when I was 25 after playing matched grip for 13 years... simply because I liked the challenge. Now 27 years later I got it to a place where I am happy with it. ;)
same as me brother.. and traditional grip looks so coool LOL
When I first started learning rudiments on my Slingerland snare drum back in 1963 , my drum teacher taught me using trad grip as that is what he used . In 1964, I switched to matched grip and have been using it ever since. Although I can still play very well with trad grip I have always believed that matched grip is a far better and faster way of learning to control the bounce and rebound of the sticks which are more evenly spaced across from each other on the pad or drum compared to trad.
I'm not a drummer and probably never will play the drums but this was so interesting that I had to watch to the very end of this video. Amazing!!!
What a comprehensive overview... Very informative. Thanks Thomas!
The most thorough explanation of traditional vs matched grip. Thank you, sir 👍
I love how you explain the difference between the grips ,I also love the way you sound with the strokes, i would love to be able to play like you.
Knew the story of the marching drummers and the traditional grip,but what a great explanation from one of the best in the world.
I was involved with a Colonial reenactment group and I never heard of the drum on the side. The sling (rope in very early times), put the drum at an angle and therefore traditional grip happened.
The drumset started late 1890s. Those drummers studied with military veterans. Gene Krupa studied with Sanford Moller.
Wow! Pretty wild that I had this video pop up on my U-Tube recommends cause I am seriously thinking about changing to matched grip...AGAIN! I played traditional grip for 8 years, then went to matched grip for 20 years and then back to traditional grip for the last 22. So here I am after playing 50 years looking at Jack DeJohnette playing only matched and now Thomas saying all of the right things here to make me believe it may be time to go matched again. Very cool explanation and of course, he is a wonderful musician who can do far more than play drums.
For the most part it is true. I have played for 30+ years always matched. That being said, there are times when something seems easier or more effective with traditional. Take playing a rhythm on the hi hat and snare. Especially if there is a lot of ghosting and or syncopation, there is a benefit to not raising the left(traditional) hand into the right(matched) hand. Also, after playing almost completely matched my whole life, somehow I get a quicker double stroke from a traditional grip in my left hand.
All that being said, when Thomas Lang speaks, I (and every other drummer should) listen. Truly one of the greatest technicians to grace the drumset. Thanks for the lesson.
The only thing missing is the concept. Comprehend that the traditional grip is an art form, not related only with speed, power or control. We should listen to the old masters and the way they approached to Music, not only to technique, in order to understand the meaning of each stroke related to music. My admiration to Thomas, a great player. It’s just a new point of view 🙏🏼
Grande Kiko Freitas professor na arte da bateria
then WHY DIDN'T BUDDY RICH USE TRADITIONAL GRIP with his RIGHT hand?
@@jonbongjovi1869 : one-word answer:…….
“TRADITION”!
Very well explained Thomas, thank you . I watched this and really enjoyed your explanation of the differences and how it would ( makes perfect sense) affect your musical decisions. Bravo!
This video was very insightful and made points I didn’t even realize consciously about the traditional grip. Thanks for this!
Hi Thomas! We met 10 years ago in Finale Emilia, Italy, where you did a great clinic (video on YT). I drove you there from Modena train station. Thank you for coming and for this most accurate explanation.
Best description of the drumming grips I've seen, no nonsense.
A great lesson! ... Thank you so much Thomas
By the way, this was the best video I have ever seen on the subject. Great insight from a great drummer!
What a great explanation by a great drummer. I attended one of his clinics once, during which he played a five stroke roll on the bassdrum. I was blown away so I asked him how he did it. He didn't hear me or misunderstood and started playing paradiddles or something on the kicks, like it was nothing. " No the five stroke roll" I said, and he went oh right, prrrap prrrrap prrrap prrrrap. A supersolid 5stroke roll with his bloody feet. Absolutly insane.
Quando dice "focusing", il fuoco della telecamera cambia. Incredibilis!
Thomas is a good teacher. This is very interesting and insightful. The discussion will continue forever.
What a tutor, great deep knowledge and when he demos what he's talking about, wow. Top educator, master player.
Like you, I feel really comfortable with traditional because that's how I came up. Now that I'm getting back into it after years away, I see the logic of match grip and that's what I'll focus on. You make a comprehensive and strong case for gripping both sticks the same. Thank you!
A great education on the grip for sure. I do recall Dave Weckl mention one benefit he likes about traditional was the angle of the stick that can be achieved. The stick butt can be raised and enables a different angle to generate a different sound. I am a matched player and just use traditional for fun, it looks cool :)!
Wow. That's some great analysis of the traditional grip.
Such a great Influencer you are, and a great instructor! Thanks 👍
Buddy played matched grip once in a while, especialy in tom tom soloing. I think a lot af drummers uses traditionel grip because og tradition, and as you mention, it may make the drummer "think" different regarding the musical situation he/she is in.
I play matched grip and I love it. Thank you so much Thomas for this great explanation, everything that you said makes sense. It’s a relief.
@MortalGamerDC1 85 tell this secret to Dave & Vinnie!
Thomas, thank you for a very thoughtfully presented topic for Drummers. As a 70 YO, retiree, who returned to playing drums , solely for enjoyment as a pastime in retirement, after over a 50 Year Hiatus, I have been watching instructional YT Videos for a couple of years now. This is one of the Best I've seen. I learned the Traditional Grip in exactly the way you described: First lesson in 1966, "here's how you hold the sticks"... But in accordance to this info, when I returned to the drums in 2019, although I may have started using the Traditional grip, but quickly gravitated to the Matched Grip. Everybody's body mechanics vary, and for me, notice that I am better able to roll my forearm to play trad grip on the snare (I think that although I have Not been able to play Golf for a few years now due to spinal issues that forced my retirement, I would "roll" my left arm and wrist which caused me to Slice my drives and even Iron Shots), but with 3 Rack Toms on my set ( Thomas used the old term drum Set, not rum Kit), it is much more difficult to play around the kit using a Trad grip. Thomas' reference to Buddy Rich were very interesting, as Buddy Rich played with Superhuman speed. Never seen anything like it. Do yourself a favor, if you have not seen Buddy Rich play , watch his performances on The Tonight Show with Johnnie Carson... Holy Sh*t...
Thomas never says you can't get superspeed out of trad grip.
he says it's going to harm your body SOONER than matched grip.
Never knew the history of traditional grip! Thanks for sharing this knowledge! Cheers!
Hello Thomas Lang. I'm Allan Loayza, I wanted to thank you because your techniques are very useful to me. Greetings from Lima -Peru
I watched nearly all of this and get your point, but. Seeing as most people are right handed it seems apt that using your left hand in a different way works for coordinating the sticks. Steve Gad, Vinnie, etc both use the traditional grip as well as Buddy. I have been playing for 45 years and when I need total control I use traditional grip, when I want rock power I use matched grip, or timpani grip. I think all drummers should learn both.
Great lesson,,super thanks Thomas
The best stick technique observations by far.Stuff that no one dared to question.
I soooooooo love traditional grip. I admit one reason is it LOOKS SOOOOOOOO COOL
I Love his technique and playing
I think that some drummers can utilize the traditional grip to great success like Joe Morello, but your right, it takes a lot of technique to NOT get carpal tunnel syndrome using that grip.
Bill Stewart plays jazz matched grip.
And he’s one of the best jazz drummers out there.
Very interesting and thorough look on the subject. I have to say that I personally find two benefits of traditional grip, but that could be subjective:
One is that it gives you a different feel and this does affect the groove and a s a result as well what you end up playing in the same musical context.
And two - it is so much better at low dynamics. Probably this is why the vast majority of jazz players use it. You can be really delicate and quick at the same time.
Best is to know both and use them accordingly, but, of course, that really depends on what kind of music you play.
Excellent commentary and review of the pros and cons of traditional vs matched grip. I started playing drums when I was 14. I’m now 71 and still playing. I think the reason for that is that I switched from traditional grip to matched grip about 5 years after I first started to play and was taught using traditional grip. After years of struggling to just become proficient with traditional grip, I just decided (on my own) to switch to matched grip. It made all the difference in my drumming life. I instantly felt freed up to play freely with a grip that felt good and natural. In my early days of drumming, matched grip was frowned upon. But I didn’t care. I was done with trying to play like Buddy Rich and his distain of traditional grip did not deter me - thank goodness. By switching to matched grip, I could now ‘copy’ my right hand technique to my left hand. This made learning rudiments much easier and faster. But making the switch didn’t come without lots of practice. I really had to relearn how to use my left hand after years of using traditional grip, even though the traditional grip motion is so much more natural. Thank you Thomas for your commentary and inspiring play. Long live matched grip!
Didn't know some of the details of the reason why marchers stopped traditional grip. Thanks!
Really insightful, thank you 😊
Very thorough and accurate.
He's such a brilliant man.
Absolutely the best explanation.
I play both grips and use them according to what I’m playing and feeling You playing swing you using traditional It allows ghost notes and nuances that I feel match grip don’t give naturally You playing rock and riding concert toms you use match for power and control It’s nice to have both grips as you may need This is my take You got guys like Virgil who plays hard and can ride his toms incredible and he uses traditional grip There can be exceptions plus he is a sick man when it comes to his playing 😂Thomas Lang is an alien by the way from planet drums just an extraordinary player teacher clinician and too humble
Virgil needs work with his traditional sticking. The most powerful traditional stroke is that of Vinnie. He plays so smooth jazz and so hard rock with his traditional grip.
Periods and commas. You'd be amazed at how less ignorant you sound by using them. Give it a try.
My first 5 years playing was in Orchestra and Marching band.
I was taught traditional.
I then began playing with Rock Bands that required more volume then dynamics and switched over to match grip like some of my hero’s.
I immediately found it easier to play the higher toms with more ease and consistency. But between the low tunings and change of grip, some of the bounce was taken out of my step so to speak and as a result my new technique forced me to relearn simple rudiments again. Ghost notes which were natural for me, had to be practiced again. Some hurdles 4 sure.
Ultimately I started switching grips seamlessly and use both to this day.
If I could do it all over it would be matched grip all the way.
The history behind both grips is very interesting.
Brilliant explanation. I've been saying and teaching the same thing for years. Thomas is an absolute world class player. If anyone is qualified to settle this debate as far as I'm concerned it's him.
The idea of traditional inspiring asymmetrical thinking/playing makes a lot of sense. But as a new drummer I find it way more comfortable to play with matched. Nice lesson!
I have been playing traditional grip all my life. I started at age 8 and am now 66. I took 30 years off and came back to playing and got it back fairly quickly however I now want to switch to matched. Thomas clarified my thinking on the physical aspect of it (It never occurred to me that the grip changes the way you think about playing but I knew that technique was different from watching good matched drummers). My reason for wanting to switch is that I found that my left hand was much harder to get back into shape after so many years away from playing. My body is old and definitely needs more recuperation time after playing. I have felt that matched grip made more sense. You use the same technique and exercises to develop each hand, you have no limitations on how you move around the kit, you can more easily learn to lead with the weaker hand, you can play left handed much easier (when I am hitting my hats with my left hand with traditional grip it feels odd). I play progressive rock and dabble in jazz, latin and r&b. The challenge is to find a way to make myself used matched grip when it feels like a fish out of water compares to switching back to traditional and I can sound so good that way. But I want to get that good with matched for all the reasons I've stated but I feel like I'm back in 1st grade drumming again. Anyone have this problem? I also bought a double peddle and have been putting a lot of time into that... wow, what a different feel. It is starting to feel natural to me and it seems to work better with matched grip. All four limbs tend to work better together that way. I guess I will just have to go back to hard work on rudiments again to get that left hand to change.
bravo! finally someone! great thx! its kind of feel like release for that guy ..
excellent comparison from a master
Only time I ever play traditional grip is when I’m playing light jazzy stuff. It just feels better and there’s that shuffle/bounce thing that seems easier with the left hand for the fast swing stuff.
Check out “rotten kid” by Buddy rich for an example of the left hand bouncing ghost thing. I’m sure there’s a better term for it!
Great video 😁😎
This is a great video.
Really fantastic information and it's really about what's happening now than in the past fantastic
I'm a lifelong matched grip player but I've been fussing with traditional grip for a few years now. One thing that never gets as much mention is timing with matched vs trad in the left hand. I have found that my backbeats are different with traditional grip and I think it's that the stick hits just a little more ahead of the beat due to its angle with trad grip. I also suck at rimshots with trad grip so I don't use them, which also may have an effect. Regardless, it is a way I can take advantage of a natural difference with the grip when it makes musical sense. If I had been a long-term trad guy I might have weeded out that tendency, so perhaps it's a benefit of being a noob...
It's a different tangent, but one way I've always used trad grip is with brushes. I thought from early on that the differences with that grip would allow for different hand/finger motions, which it does. I think it may be more relaxing with brushes too, as the brush naturally rests on the drum head, where I want it to be most of the time.
I could listen to Mr. Lang all day. He is truly my biggest inspiration to “get better” and I’m a 53 year old who’s been hitting the skins since age 15. If I had 1/5th of Tom’s talent I’d be 110 percent better than I am now..
What a privilege that i can see a awesome lesson with an incredible teacher like Thomas Lang here in youtube. Thanks a lot for sharing this!
He’s amazing
Buddy Rich often criticized matched grip, but I've seen him "accidentally" play matched grip a couple of times (rare footage). His matched grip playing was just as impressive as his traditional grip, but he still argued against it. Mr. Lang makes some great points about the history and crutch of match grip. I had to switch to match grip because I was a left handed drummer raised on a right handed drum set, which, I think may have been the great Billy Cobham's challenge as well, so I consider myself in good company. :) My feet were "right footed", but my hands were "left handed". Whew, what a mess. Matched grip help me overcome many issues.
@MortalGamerDC1 85 It's not a contest.
@@Gretchluver1 yes it is. and we are all trying to find the winning answer.
BUDDY RICH did not use Matched grip by accident! Find the UA-cam video of him playing “HAWAIAN WAR CHANT” With the Tommy Dorsey Orchestra, Buddy uses traditional grip on the intro and all the choruses (with the ensemble)…..and on the out chorus and Switches to match grip for the Solo section and back to traditional grip for the “Blazing” out chorus!…. Perfect lesson in the art of combining traditional grip with match grip within a musical piece!!!! A very young buddy rich it’s on UA-cam it’s black-and-white video from a movie check out his solo with match grip and then he goes to traditional grip for the finale it’s a mind blower! Just watch the video track it down on UA-cam and watch it
@@jonbongjovi1869 There is no winning answer, apart from what works best for you and you alone. Otherwise, you're just pissing in the wind.
@@Gretchluver1 when I piss in the wind,… I use match grip 😊
Agreed these are true gems!!!
Thanks for the lesson Thomas.
I think there's one advantage of using traditional grip: it makes you think different, and as result, you will sound different
Totally agree, finally someone said it!
I love this. Trad grip to me has always been snobby. Im right-handed. I fell for the orthodoxy for a while and I really pushed myself on it when I binged on a lot of the tutorial DVDs but eventually thought, this is bs.
And having given it a real go, I one day was talking to someone (guitarist) about it with sticks in my hands at the kit and I unknowingly used switched to trad grip on my right hand and it was 20 times better than my left, even though I had literally never used in my life.
The most beneficial change I ever made was switching to open-handed; that's where its really at. I'm still useless with my left though 😆
Addendum: when Neil Peart switched to trad I thought then, that there has to be something in but nah, Neil didn't stay with trad for long.
That one album changed my life.. test for echo!
As he said, there’s a lot of great drummers out there but in my opinion there’s only one Thomas Lang! He’s the best there is!
My thanks to the three drummers I studied most growing up, Buddy Rich, Gene Krupa, and Louis Bellson. I believe all three would be in agreement that this gentleman is the best there is. Thank you Thomas for being such an amazing drummer, teacher, and performer. You are a true credit to our craft!🥁
Nice. Thank you Sir.
Thomas is such a cool dude.
This is such a nice video. Thomas is one of these people who are so advanced they know the journey is not over. How can you not love the guy's playing and personality.
Great vídeo!
Nice work
I definitely have as much power with traditional grip as I did when I only used matched grip traditional grip gives you much more freedom of movement plus extra power... I do utilize Mirrored Traditional Grip... Traditional in both hands
Thomas is from other planet. Such a beast. I started with traditional grip just for curious. As a newbie, i can say it becomes easier to develop rebound in your weak hand with traditional.
Magistral enseñanza y explicacion. Saludos desde Lima,Perú.
Dois drummers que eu admiro por suas performances, didáticas e mecânica para tocar drums, são Todd Sucherman e Thomas Lang.
I have finally after all these years made the complete transition to double traditional grip.
All hail Buddy Rich!
I was taught traditional originally, and whenever I sit in front of the practice pad, I automatically pick up my sticks like that. That said, when I was first taught, I was told to slant my snare drum to accommodate traditional. Marching snares before racks were used still felt more comfortable traditional. Now sitting behind a drum kit, I don't see the benefit. Snare is he only percussion instrument that uses this grip, every other instrument (timpani, mallet percussion, etc.) uses matched grip. In a jazz situation, traditional is handy if you are changing to cross stick. Interesting take on it, thanks Thomas!
Giant. Thank you.
I will say there is a benefit to ghost notes with the traditional grip. I play both grips preferring matched for heavier rock-type music and traditional for jazz.
Spot on!
Yes there are historical reasons for use of traditional grip but there are surely mechanical differences that enable different techniques to be done differently with the different grips.
I use both, which one I use is based on what I’m playing, but more often, what mood I’m in.
Matched is more natural and easier to adapt to when first starting. Traditional just “looks” cool at this point
good stuff here, i like it.
Just very recently I try to study and learn to play the traditional grip. I play like most drummers with my left hand but I can do a reverse traditional grip where my right hand is playing on the high hat in traditional mode in my left hand in match grip. What I found difficult was trying to do the traditional grip on my left hand when you have three upper toms. I think I’ll stay now with the traditional grip
I'm with Thomas on this. And I've done both. The planes have to change on the set between matched and trad. I was always taught not to be a "one-sided" drummer. But in the end the left NEVER sounds the same on the drum only because of the way the stick is held. And because of that, you practice what sounds better in the end by changing the patterns favoring one side in the legit world of classical performance. So all the years of asymmetrical playing (practice) is thrown in the garbage for the sound in the end; which I thought was funny! And that thought came down from one of the highest rated music conservatories in the world. Nice discussion Thomas.Wish you would comment on the tonal aspects of this.
I feel so vindicated!! Thank you for explaining this
Thanks!!!
Thanks Thomas!
Thank you, Thomas, for this interesting and thought-provoking essay... ☝️😎
I think Tony was right when he said any serious student should learn and become proficient in both.
It’s Thomas.
I love this guy! My opinion here-he’s the premiere drummer of our age. I think he’s the best in the world-not to take anything away from all of the amazing drummers there are now both male & female-this man is an amazing teacher. 🥁
I was not a big TL fan until I saw him live. It was a life changing experience
He's one of the best, but there are guys like Vinnie, Virgil, Weckl, etc who are on par, most of whom use traditional. It's personal choice really.
He is in the very top tier for sure, has an incredible power and technique.
@@tortillasarenotbiceps7622 i prefer the BENNIE Grip, ha ha
Thomas puts down traditional grip, yet his left hand in traditional grip had so much speed. Undeniably great for left hand polish.
Buddy did play Match Grip like no other!!! There are some clips of that Thomas!!!Obviously he could do things with Traditional Grip like no other!!!
No pro drummer or anyone for that matter has surpassed Buddy's finesse, technique, speed to this day August 18th 2021.....facts not a opinion.🥁🥁🥁
@@vincentquattrocchi7924 That's bullshit.
@@Lu-ql How can you say that's b******* have you ever watched any of the old tapes showing him blazing faster than anyone of today?You do realize that weckle, Steve Smith, among many others have tried and can't replicate his style to get that speed and finesse .I don't believe you know what you're talking about with that kind of statement. You must be young.🥁
Buddy Rich has one of the most amazing left hand traditional grip styles that no one has been able to replicate or go beyond find it and let me know show me a video prove me wrong.
@@vincentquattrocchi7924 And you're just old and haven't seen better. I'm not going to waste my time arguing with you. His speed has been surpassed so long ago by guys like Riccardo Merlini and Mike Mangini, it baffles me you people still insist on it this myth that Buddy is still the fastest.
And finnese? Buddy Rich isn't mentioned in conservatories, he isn't an influence to anyone born after the 90s, he was a terrible jazz drummer, was mostly a show man and a piece of shit with his big band.
He gets no respect from me.