@daytheone8459 He literally in this very video said all conservatives are secretly just fascists, lol. Also we can all see what he said on Twitter, lmao. Why do Destiny stans think tu quoque is a valid form of argument? Oh that's because Destiny keeps using it and they keep blindly following him.
@@chrishamilton7516 lacking sympathy for trumptard deaths is not wishing they'd die. EDIT: at 3:00 he literally says that he doesn't wish for anyone to die
This audience does not tolerate sentiments that encourage apathy towards violence because bad discourse becomes an excuse to become foul. No amount of faux sophistication excuses many of the points he has made. That being said 90% of the conversation on general topics are just fine but people are here to react to the 10%.
@nathnaellegesse4 Jesus. Destiny said SO MUCH, and you're fixated on one thing. In all fairness, for someone that agrees with almost everything he says, that take he had about the guy who died was very edgy. I probably wouldn't have said that if I had his platform. He could've just denounced it while adding a caveat. So, I understood his point, but a guy getting randomly killed is probably not the best circumstance to express that message. Nevertheless, it was an edgy take, not a mindless one. He's literally so correct on everything. One edgy take doesn't negate that.
@@MiasmaTazmaI have to presume that you agree with Destiny's position? I have to admit I'm guilty, I only got to 1 minute before I had to stop watching because of Destiny's "TikTok brain" position. Along with his first 60 seconds of nonsense, when I saw him sipping the red bull, I decided I had better things to do with my time. This is because I have watched him on another podcast I wasn't impressed with his logic, rationality, empathy or compassion. So as somebody who obviously did watch the whole of this podcast, I'd love to know what you thought.
@@liamweavers9291 I think he's right about alot of things. I know he does thorough research and even if I may disagree with his conclusion. His factual basis is mostly pretty solid. I understand that he can come off harsh and cold, although I don't think that makes someone a bad person. I've never seen him do anything morally reprehensible. If he had one of his detractors would have exposed him for it. I think he's fed up with the current political climate and I agree with him. I think the Left has been mostly push overs and it's nice to see someone pushing back. The Right has lots of people taking verbal swings and he's really the only Leftist swinging back.
@@liamweavers9291 "I watched .6% of the video and then I saw the person drink an energy drink. This is when I stopped watching" is a position you certainly can hold, but then you'll have to accept people will assume you do not have anything of value to contribute to the topic. It's like me commenting under a YT video of a political rally about how the speech was bad while saying I closed it when I saw the candidate walk on stage.
@@liamweavers9291 I think he's right about alot of things. I know he does thorough research and even if I may disagree with his conclusion, his factual basis is mostly pretty solid. I understand that he can appear cold, although I don't think that makes someone a bad person. I've never seen him do anything unforgivable. If he had one of his detractors would have exposed it. I think he's fed up with the current conversational climate and I agree with him. I think the Left has been mostly push overs and it's nice to see someone pushing back. The Right has gone mostly unchecked and it's nice to see someone that's willing to stand up to it.
@@saskiafinnan4216 Because of how intolerant he is to others. Glad this guy died? It doesn't make his own arguments look good at all. He sounds like a POS who'd be happy if anybody who disagreed with him were imprisoned. He's just another fool with a twitter account that angry people who can't listen to balanced arguments follow
Why is it so difficult to understand. That there is a big difference between saying that someone's death doesn't affect you because you don't know the person and saying that you find it funny that someone is shot dead because you don't agree with someone's political opinion. People who think like Destiny are dangerous to society. Whether you like it or not people have different opinions, they don't have to die for that. If you think so, then you don't belong in a free society.
@@Datníğğa123 I don't think we know enough yet. But it seems to me like he felt useless and wanted to make an impact and be known. He was apparently looking up the rallies of Trump and Biden. Trump just happened to be closer at the time
At first it was a bit too much for me to hear destiny saying "f**k that guy", but now knowing more about the context, I can see how unfair and even malicious Piers Morgan and others are to put the ultimatum between you are either condemning the firefighter being killed or you're glorifying it, like there're no other options. Such a bad faith narrative. It's clarified explicitly at 2:31:41 what destiny meant. Good podcast. The more I listen to him the more he makes sense.
I was super conservative when i first stumbled upon him but his thinking is logical. I don’t agree with everything he does especially now, but he can explain and argue through any of what he says. He is absolutely abrasive to those he disagrees with but that grit smoothed out the concepts in a way that helps me to settle on what is right.
I'm not sure if Destiny was compelled to comment on the killing of that guy, but couldn't he at least have stayed quiet if he had nothing decent/human to say? I mean isn't that a always the third option?
“Such a bad faith narrative” i swear to god if a leftist like hasan or a conservative was like ugh this is so hard being given two options between condemning and endorsing murder of my political opponents i guarantee this would be like considered an evil thing But when youre a neolib and arguing for the status quo you can get away with this because ure acting in “good faith”, but if vaush were to say “i feel nothing if obama, netyuhah or henry kissinger died” we’d get numerous think pieces on how we shouldnt vote for free health care because “leftists are mean”
"TDS" is unfortunately one of the most succinct and yet effective ad hom attacks we've seen recently. Three simple letters that attempt to undercut any substantive claim without actually addressing it in any way shape or form. But it is par for the course. Trump and those who defend him have made great strides with simple sloganeering. However, to anyone who spends more than 5 seconds thinking, it's obvious that crying "TDS" is the exact same thing as shouting "NU-UH" through bleary, red eyes.
@@KerplunkTM The internet is just bots and trolls for the most part. Couple years ago, you could have actual discussions in the comments. Now they are all hit and run comments, they never respond to replies.
@@Macheakoit’s so weird how you try to moralize the situation, and when that doesn’t work on a comment, you pivot to insulting people. It’s almost like you don’t care about corey…
@@Scarletpimpanel73 hahaha yeah dude Australian centrism is literal anarcho communism here lol. I should have said relative American enlightened centrist lol.
Not as hilarious as the tolerant leftists who abhor violence and censorship yet who keep demanding everyone be censored or murdered for disagreeing with them 🤣
@TomBilyeu There is a technical issue with this video. The camera feed showing both of you is out of sync with the audio, by a lot. I find this very distracting. Please fix this for future viewers.
Oh my god, this was killing me. I thought it was on my end and tried rebooting, restarting the browser, closing down my Docker containers running in the background. It seemed like it came and went a few times throughout this entire video. It seemed to be the worst in the wide-angle views where both of them are on screen.
Tom just proved destiny's point by saying he's a centrist but of course voting for RJK. You're conservative dude! You just don't wanna be lumped in with the maga hat wearers
It's so annoying when people pretend they have an biased intellectual curiosity but only platform 95% nutjobs they agree with. Lex Fridman does the same thing and Piers Morgan stacks the deck all the time.
I think a better analogy for the “stubbed toe” concept would be: If you’ve ever had a spider on you and you see it, you deal with it, know the danger has passed and move on. If someone falsely tells you there’s a spider on you, you panic and start searching for something that’s not there while begging the person whom has told you to save you from the spider. If there were substantial empirical evidence in public information of election interference- we would deal with the problem, ease minds, and increase faith in the system. When you have a party telling you there’s election interference while having no empirical evidence, it creates panic and makes them believe that the only solution is to seek help from the people whom have told you there’s a problem.
And yet every single common sense proposal to strengthen the integrity and minimize the potential for election malfeasance is met with extreme resistance by the other party... There is substantial evidence. That it has not been spoon fed to you by the corporate media nor have you been motivated to expend the minimal amount of time and energy required to research it, does not negate it's existence. But a problem is not actually a problem for people who perceive themselves as being the beneficiaries of the consequences, and nobody likes to admit when they have been played for a fool.
Great analogy! My question is at what point does an adult person say, "Hey, wait a minute... the same people keep telling me I have a spider on me but I never actually see it and it never does anything to me, even if it IS there, so it's possible they aren't telling the truth or maybe these so calleds piders just aren't that dangerous"?
The first reasonable comment I have read. I certainly had a knee-jerk reaction of distaste for his original comments, but after hearing all this context, I can actually say my opinions have shifted slightly.
Trump saying the second amendment people could “do something about Hillary taking away their 2A rights” is a hell of a lot more literal than Biden saying we need to put Trump in a bullseye. Trump’s statement implies an action should be taken, while Biden’s is a well known figure of speech and metaphor.
Also Biden said that in a private call with investors, while Trump said that at one of his rallies in front of a massive audience of his supporters. Why should Biden apologize when Trump would never do the same in a million years?
Not going to vote for trump but he's right on that. People that try to take away rights "should be taken care of", don't like our core beliefs, gtfo. The bullseye comment was stupid to say but I doubt he genuinely was hinting at literally putting him in a bullseye.
@@Roguecjb People had the right to marry kids before, will you defend that one ? People had the right to own slaves before, is that a right you would defend too? If the majority want a right to not be one then it isn't a right, that is the "core belief" of a democracy, also if the majority don't like a right then clearly it isn't a core belief by definition, a core value is something the vast majority has.
Triggered? You hijacked the term what it actually means, it means that someone is offended by someone that uses reason and logic. If you think that someone is triggered if his logic is that shooting on a president and the death of a father is bad then, i got news for you you lack logic reason and morals. You listen too mutch Destiny he is a middle iq puppet that tries to obfuscate his ill logic, and only the weak minded fall for his tricks
Tweeting "+1 for Biden in Pennsylvania" to a photo of bloodstained seats is reasonable? Care to explain how? Seems like the actions of a 12 year old to me.
@@funk0tron What is unkind =/= unreasonable. The tweets are obviously intentionally inflammatory - it's the actions of a 35 year old trying to piss people off, and it worked!
@@jessiejoy1703 Literally open the replies and you'll find plenty of ppl playing defense without engaging with any points Destiny made. Ppl aren't used to a fan base that actually wants facts.
I’d love to see Tom host a few of his viewers who disagree with Destiny on air for a 1 on 1 conversation with Destiny. I think Tom could keep things on the rails and constructive.
So we could hear the conservative destiny fans deny the 1000+ pieces of evidence that walk you to the obvious conclusion that Trump tried to coup the government?
His viewers seem to be mostly mindless trolls who write "TDS" repeatedly. None of these people would ever show their face in a real room for a real conversation.
I’ve been watching Destiny for a few months now quite regularly, even watching content from over the last few years. The only time he’s changed his opinions is when he’s received new information. He is absolutely a man of conviction, generally doesn’t form concrete conclusions before putting in the research, n is never afraid to voice those conclusions/opinions. I may not agree with him on everything but at least I know I can trust the things he espouses
@vanessa4truth297 Watched him for years now and he's become one of, if not the, most grounded commentators. Like you say, he puts the work in so that he can come to a conclusion, rather than cheerleading a side and post hoc reasoning to a position. His approach to Israel Gaza are a great example and while I may disagree on some elements, he's always totally across the facts and assigns conviction relative to the significance of those facts. On that basis, he's always worth listening to, even if I come away disagreeing sometimes, I'll have rigorously challenged my views and reached a better understanding which fulfills my most valued goal when listening to people in this space.
I loved this video. Listening to Destiny talk is always the best when he is talking with someone who is open to hearing what he is saying and has the willingness to understand it too. For the most part, people just shout their own narrative and just grab keywords from their 'opponents' speech to further their own agenda. I really think this whole sense-making apparatus is a really good approach to conversations. I only wish more people would participate in this with this thought in mind rather than having an opinion from the start and sticking to it regardless of what is said.
Yeah this is Destiny in his best form cuz he doesn’t need to be combative n the viewers are much more open to his message. I see lots of people saying that they understand his thoughts on the assassination attempt n not having sympathy for the guy who died now that they’ve heard his reasoning for the opinions he has. He really gained a good amount of new followers with this interview n also pissed off a lot of conservatives 😂 just read through some of these comments to see the whiny Trumpers hating on him but never offering anything of substance to disprove anything Destiny says
Absolutely... But Destiny's position on centrists shoots him in the foot... I want to and do use Destiny as part of my sense making apparatus... but then he proceeds to say centrists don't exist... so I must be a Conservative and conservatives are Fu***** dumb... He needs to stop this polarising narrative for no damn good reason. People can exist in the centre and advocate for the right... because we advocate for the left when the right does stupid s***... Our job is to counter stupidity when it occurs... but it almost seems that Destiny is so willing to call everyone dumb that when's called dumb for doing that repeatedly... he word rather paint those criticising him in a polarised way to avoid actually having to self-reflect on that. He's really good on the fact of the matter and giving grace where he thinks people could potentially lean his way... but his elimination tactics beyond that aren't any better than those he criticises.
“I’m an adult and I never really cared about politics but now I’m forced into it and I identify as a ‘centrist.’” Adult baby’s first ideologies: libertarian or centrist. Shocking!
Strange. Most young people I know are, as I was, a "Proggressive Leftist" and it's only later in life that they change to a more 'conservative' point. I think that usually the very strong will to change things and be special is mostly a juvenile thing. So I think being a centrist and putting a bit more value on our built knowledge instead of shouting for changes is a more mature thinking and not an Adult Baby thinking.
This guy brings up a conspiracy book about JFK several times whilst admitting he hasn’t done the relevant research to draw any conclusions from it. Then he….proceeds to draw conclusions and form arguments about the deep state based on what he’s read so far. I’m so tired of the intellectual laziness of people like this. How about you finish the book, read another one from a different perspective, do some more relevant research, think about it some more and then bring it up six times in your next interview. Then the rest of his talking points revolve around vague ideas about “values”. We need more literate thinkers in this space.
Destiny' quote about centrists is so accurate. Never met a "centrist pundit" who did not play constant defence for Trump, while holding every Dem to another standard.
We're supposed to buffer both sides... We are supposed to disagree with both sides... if you have to alienate the centre then you literally make it impossible to be on your side... If I agree with the right on XYZ and you on ABC but you're going to condemn me for agreeing with the right in ANY capacity whatsoever... then I am not right by choice. I have verified my political position on the political compass test and I don't sit in ANY quadrant...
@@spazic1493 Maybe you are a true centrists, I can't tell you that. I just had enough of these fake "centrist pundits" like Tim Pool whose whole channel is based on bashing anyone on the left and always grading Trump on a curve. And when you call him out he says I'm pro choice or for healthcare for all. But that doesnt really matter if your whole channel and all your other actions are just standard right wing shillery. Maybe normal centrists are different, but give me one true centrist pundit in the space right know. The closest may be Lex Fridman. But even he downplays things like Jan 6th, while calling out Democrats of innane stuff.
Centrists are supposed to buffer and criticise both sides... If you're on the left then of course you're going to see centrists appear to be on the right... we're supposed to stop you going too far left... just as we're going to criticise religious fundamentalism. I've done the political compass test and I'm not in any particular quadrant... smack bang in the middle... so I have sought form of verification for my Centrism... But I keep getting accused of being right wing... so I genuinely believe the left has no idea what the centre is... if they have any opposition or criticism... it must be right wing or conspiracy theory... No different from the right thinking I'm left wing and a government shill...
@@spazic1493 It seems like the overwhelming majority of 'centrists' when pushed to say who they'll vote for either abstain or say they will vote for Trump. Centrism isn't just 'everyone is bad' because that is 100% totally disingenuous. Anyone who sincerely loves America and democracy cannot, and should not, vote for Trump whatsoever. There is a mountain of evidence about an attempt to push fake federal documents in seven states directly connected to Trump and his legal team in the electors plot. If you vote for this, you don't deserve a free and open society. Full fucking stop. One of the candidates professes disdain for the constitution. I'm not sure how any centrist wouldn't find that specific point absolutely unacceptable on any level for any candidate. My fucking god what are we talking about here.
@@breadconsumer5833 I think Tom's another former liberal that's finding out how far the left has strayed from sanity land. This conversation was revealing for all of us.
"Is calling someone a threat to our values creating problems?" This is the wrong question we should be asking. "Is this person a threat to our values?" Is the only question we should be asking.
Yes a bad question leads to bad answers and confusion. Some question are just not worth answering .Why does this always happen to me? That is a question that will confuse and derail. Change the question. For your question you assume your values are good and everybody shares in your values from the start. What are these person values? And are these values better than my values?
@@lawsonharrison6927 What are "good values" and why are they good. And most importantly are values really the what important in that specific case. For exempl I value life vs the military or death penalty.
21:15 "No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed, it has been said that *democracy is the worst form of Government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time* " - from a Nov 1947 speech to the House of Commons. As it implies, he was not the first to say it.
@@somethingthisway The word for that issue is 'majoritarianism'; which can exist in both. Typically the alternative in both is 'constitutionalism', or liberal checks and balances more broadly. At least in the west, systems of both names tend to be constitutional. Formally, republics are defined by having a president rather than a monarch. They can however be oligarchies. Democracies are defined by the power residing with the populace (typically representative through Congress). They are allowed to have a figurehead monarch, or can be part of a dual system (e.g. UK). The two, as such, do not contradict. France and the US are democratic republics, at least on paper. That of course is a significant note. Russia is a republic, but it might as well be a monarchy. The Netherlands is a monarchy, but de facto a republic, while the Dutch Republic frequently was a monarchy. Nobody knows what the UK is, least of all the British. The Democratic Party acts much as an oligarchy, while the Republican Party's leader is seen by many as a pseudo-monarch. We'll not even get into "democratic peeople's republics" ;). Anwyay, enough rambling.
@@somethingthisway America is a democracy. Democracy is an extremely broad term that basically just means "through some system, the population votes for the government they want". Whether that is through representatives or directly voting on policies or whatever. That is all democracy is. I see people confuse this with the concept of "direct democracy" which is a more specific system. Yes, certainly America is not and has never been a direct democracy. But America IS a democracy.
His idea that american democracy is better than all the alternatives is laughable. Ranked choice voting is better, proportional representation is better than an EC, having a cabinet you can vote on individually is better than having a president that appoints people himself. This is the most bizarre cope, i dont like aspects of my country but Britain’s democracy is way better than America’s right wing versus far right system
@@somethingthisway This is one of the stupidest points I ever hear, and only right wing Americans say it. America is a constitutional federal republic, which is a form of democracy. Jesus.
@PhreakPhantom yes, streaming is his job. When I was a child my parents had split custody, and both had to work. You're also definitely inflating the "20 hour" thing. Hitting at his parenting has always been a super weak critique. I was just pointing out that you use of "Abandoned" is dumb.
@@hunterbowmam5339 His “open”relationships has no basis in solid family values for children. His Hedonistic lifestyle aligns with his Marxist ideology and lifestyle. He is not a stalwart example to aspire for a civilized society community and family. Listen learn and wake up to this “rules for radicals” godless Marxist .
@@maydaymemer4660 Do you have any idea what "intent" means? The OP is talking about you. You're not engaging with the idea of genocide critically; you seem to have your own definition.
1:03 “beliefs are so abstract now.” I love Destiny’s rock example, showcasing how relatively easy concrete beliefs that are false can get disproved quickly. But now that things are so abstract it’s relatively less easy. My summary lacks much of the nuance. This part is great! Reminds me of Alan Watts talking about this very point about how problems used to be based on things that were more concrete. Like war over a woman (Troy). Now it’s about Capitalism vs Communism vs Socialism. The nature of abstract and concrete reality bares the relationship of the map to the landscape.
Crazy that we are still fighting over economic systems that were designed hundreds of years ago by authors who would not even be able to conceptualize computers or AI.
@@brianitis I think you might be surprised by Tom (the host). He is extremely good at taking in new information and allowing it to reshape his opinions and beliefs. I don't think he is your average "centrist".
I only hope that he is not aware of all the crazy things rfk believes. But to express support towards your followers for a candidate you don't really know is already a bad thing to do.
@Ma1q444 Look, the Democrats suck but I'm not going to let my dislike of the Democrats incomptence take the joy away of Republicans losing who have consistently shown since the Regean administration to be way more destructive for America than the Dems in a non two party system i would never vote for the dems but here we are
Destiny stated that he does not condemn the shooter. He said this is because it is the Republican’s fault due to their divisive rhetoric, increasing the probability of an assassination. Honestly, this approach lacks human empathy (Trump is still a human being and the shooter should be condemned, regardless of how polarizing trump may be) Also, he made fun of the audience members who died from the shooting, justifying it behind the statement that it was their fault for attending a republican event such as this one. I don’t know destiny, but this seems quite harsh at the very least, and disgusting at most.
@@Smoink two wrongs don't make a right. i despise trump and his supporters but they still possess the sanctity of human life that gives all of us our inalienable rights and value in the world. assassinations & political violence are an unlawful, unamerican and immoral part of our history we have to move on from.
I used to be somewhat a fan of destiny because he seamed reasonable and well researched on most of his topics. The last few weeks he's been unhinged. Being ok with political violence and making fun of an innocent father who died. He's become exactly what he made fun of, streamers like Vaush or Hasanabi who lost their shit due to being online too much.
@@LK-ui9rx”well researched on most of his topics” This is probably his second most researched topic after Israel Palestine. If you don’t like his opinion now, it’s because you disagree with the research. Not because anything has changed in his politics
Same thing happened in the UK. Tories got away with shocking greed and incompetence wrapped up in a flag, but the scales finally fell away. The US hopefully will follow.
The same thing happened in the UK?!? I must have missed the Tories refusing to peacefully transfer power. I must have missed the UK Supreme Court effectively ruling that whatever the Prime Minister does is legal. The comparison here is completely dumb, and - if you know anything about UK politics - you should know that.
@nickelmouse451 you're talking out of your arse. Stop being a rude twat. The tories literally tried to change several rules after they were caught breaking them, they've engaged in divisive cult like politics, and have done significant damage to the country. That is similar to what happened in the USA, so don't be so pedantic and intolerant.
Speaking only for myself, I hope that content creators like Tom keep having this guy on. The margin of victory in November needs to be large enough to overcome whatever 'fortification' will be implemented.
It also makes unnational people more assured in their delusion and their ideas of how to respond. Unnational responses are not usually good or healthy.
I watched some of Tom's videos a few years ago, and am coming back now for this interview. I either missed it a couple years ago, or maybe he has changed, but man is Tom ever so conspiratorial. This reminds me so much of the Destiny + Peterson interview, minus the colorful disagreement and debate.
Why should they apologize.. the jan 6 rioters never apologized, the south never apologized causing the civil war. US never apologized to slaves or descendants, native americans, mexicans or chinese..
49:30 This is surprise for me, as long time critic of Stephen's, that he would ever course correct. I thought he was way too soft on Shapiro and Peterson and could have easily shut down some of their ridiculous and smug positions. He literally let Peterson walk away thinking he'd dunked on the libtards in one fell swoop just because Stephen sat there and let him ramble on nonsensically. I've been curious if if he was just bored by grandpa's inanity or if he was thinking it was so silly it wasn't worth the time.. So, it's interesting that a fire got lit under his ass, and I'm glad to see it.
Agree. I used to really enjoy his content not because I always agreed with him (and I still don't on some things) but because I could at least see he was following a logical thought process, arguing in good faith, and we had a common goal and disagreed on things that are reasonable to have disagreements about. But it became impossible to watch him be so passive with not just conservative but absolutely batshit commentators that they became somehow aligned or put in the same group even though they actually disagreed so heavily. Hearing him say that is on the one hand depressing because I really wish it was possible to just have good faith discussions and bring people over slowly, but also really vindicating and positive because I think it's a much better direction for him to go until the conservative thought window is back into a normal area.
I think he originally thought there was credence to the right wing positions. Partly this was due to his desire to distance himself from the left. It was cathartic for him to find comradery in a mutual dislike of the left. But he decided to be too friendly to the right. He wasn't willing to call out their hate based motivations because he thought he needed to make that concession in order to be in the same room as these conservatives. Now after he looks back at his last 2 yrs in the road with the likes of pbd, he understands that he surrendered his biggest weapon by not basing his arguments on the fundamental and in in my opinion correct principle that right wingers never argue in hood faith. You only have to peel the onion back a few layers to see the pettiness and feelings based reasons for their motives. They go low when making their points by attacking the motives of their opponents. Destiny failed to understand how critical it was to do likewise when debating these reactionaries.
@@Supercalifragilisticexpial-r2x Yes, he was definitely taken in by the idea of being platformed by the leading far right figures of social media. I think this was around the time he permanently lost his twitch stream (from saying blm protestors should be mowed down, etc) and he might have just been trying to replace lost income. I wondered if he was about to go the way of Rogan (for years claimed to be a centrist Dem and now is a full on right winger) and Pool and Rubin. His performance at the LF "debate" on Palestine was appalling. And letting people like Shapiro and Peterson, who aren't even close to his intellectual equal, burble out their nonsense unchallenged and call it a debate was inexplicable. Thankfully I didn't catch the Bet David one (sounds gross), but I did see PBD's exchange with David Pakman, and that was entertaining. Pakman is no chimp, but not equal to Stephen's bandwidth either, and he wrapped PBD up np.
If you have to look for people to revel in the misery... that's pretty sycophantic... not sure that's really a moral position... Seems a lot of people that are "morally superior" aren't doing it for the betterment of society... they just want to be right... and contradict their own damn position they claim to hold.......
I wish they would send this guy to Russia or North Korea and he would see how different it is in another world where he wouldn’t be able to speak against a former president the way that he is now. And yes, speech is free here but try it somewhere else too bad he doesn’t try to live somewhere else and see what it’s like. You will never find a better country than this.
you're telling him to shutup because he's allowed to say stuff here he's not allowed to say in other places like it's a privilege. it's not a privilege. it's a first amendment right. that's the point.
Destiny spent 2.5 hours calling Tom an idiot but because he didn't use the specific words, "Tom, you are an idiot," he has no idea and just had that lost look on his face for the duration of the interview.
50:13 If you say to yourself, I can’t understand how people think this way… These people are crazy. You don’t understand your enemy, you understand nothing…
@@westonmeyer3110 Really? Ok, let's try this out quickly. Climate change by means of Anthropogenic global warming is a fact. There's no debate to be had there. You either accept the fact for what it is, or you delude yourself into an objectively false belief. This is no different than flat earth. The earth is objectively round. It can be proven to be round in multiple different ways. It being round leads to a number of different effects, that have predictive power. Not accepting the fact that the earth is round is a delusion. So, what are your thoughts on global warming?
I love how you give people the chance to explain their thought processes, I do think the rhetoric on the right is insane and it seems like they're lashing out without giving substantial critique. SUBSCRIBED ❤
You seem to be in the minority..... many are unsubscribing. The rhetoric on both sides is insane. 🤷🏾♀️. Destiny didn't give any substantial critique or even answered many of the questions Tom asked. Destiny in the past week or so is the personification of "lashing out". He has no sympathy for a fellow American who died saying one less vote for Trump as if this is a game he's playing. Or that he would vote for Biden even if he were in a urn..... If trump is deranged, destiny is suffering from Trump derangement syndrome.
@@BouncySlim1 I thought all the responses given were quite introspective or at least were fine, is there an example that you can point out which you feel like wasn't substantive? Tom at least did his due diligence in terms of probing and criticizing Destiny's methods and rhetoric in this conversation, it does feel like people are only subscribing because they don't like the guest and aren't particularly criticizing the material of the video. From the other side I've seen no sympathy for people like Paul Pelosi, another fellow American who got attacked in their home, so all I see is hypocrisy. If I saw exemplary behavior from the other side I would absolutely criticize Destiny, but I would probably agree that is far from the case.
@@SnappishLace Destiny has a way of saying a lot, but saying absolutely nothing. I have an obsolete cellphone........ I don't watch much news, so was unaware of the attack on Pelosi until Destiny appeared on Piers Morgan. The attack on Paul sounds awful and was absolutely wrong. Violence of any nature should be condemned. That being said, (this might be just me), there's no equivalence of the attack on Paul and the attempted assassination of trump. One was private and the other public. Let me explain. There were thousands of men, women and children in attendance at the rally. If the gunman were successful and trump got his brains blown out, imagine the mental scars that would have marked the lives of all those in attendance...... especially the children. There will be some PTSD for those who watched as Corey lost his life trying to protect his family as well as those who were injured. Quote: "If I saw exemplary behavior from the other side, I would absolutely criticize Destiny...." Did you actually read what you wrote? That statement is super hypocritical. You recognize that Destiny needs to be criticized, but won't because of what the other side is doing . Destiny deserves to be criticized *NO MATTER * what those on the other side of the aisle are doing. This is partly how our country has arrived to this point. No one in my camp can do no wrong, and if he does something wrong, the other side is doing wrong, so the wrong on my side is right. Call out wrong on both sides. Stand up for righteousness.
Self-note: @6:00 - expresses disatisfaction with comments that resort to the superficial rather than responses borne from analysis of specific arguments. @28:45 construct of 'best faith' akin to good faith vs bad faith. @34:08 "hueristics" @35:40 Destiny evaluates Tom's structural thought-process @38:34 underlying understanding is crucial for reliable thoughts @1:03:50 I literally JUST binged Chernobyl. Great show.
This comment section highlights the problem Destiny is talking about. People react first but don't wait to think because going against that emotional reaction makes them uncomfortable. The stronger the reaction is, worse it is to overcome it. And people have spent time in their echo chambers for a very long time.
My respect for you, being able to keep your eye on the goal of the conversation while listening to this individual exemplify everything he says he hates, whilst he seethes beneath a thin veneer of objectivity, has jumped so much higher than the high bar I see your intellect as. To his point of not wasting his time talking to ignorant people (who I assume he gets to decide when and where that designation begins) I would not waste my time or energy engaging with him because it appears to me that he is not interested in learning something beyond his paradigm. His approach is demonstrably arrogant and narrow. He is dangerous and I don’t care what his politics might be…. He is an instrument of felling democracy and thwarting human potential toward something better than we’ve been. In my ignorant opinion, no doubt.
I think you just don't listen. These two guys agreed on a lot of things during this conversation, and I would say they are similarly intelligent and sensible. Tom reached out to him because he saw him as a sensible voice out there in a general discourse, but his take on no symphathy triggered Tom's belief that division is the only thing that guarantees us a bad outcome. Destiny clarified that he sees that currently there is lots of crap in the minds of people (conspiracies, immoral conservative beliefs, and just factually wrong stuff), and liberals are supposed to kneel while conservatives avoid responsibility with their atrocious beliefs. He believes they raised the temperature in America, and he can't respect somebody who supports Trump because of January 6, etc. Everything you said is wrong. You don't understand how Tom really views him - he doesn't need respect for having a conversation with him because they have a similar take on issues, and it seems there is even chemistry between them. He is not ignorant or close-minded. He is talking in detail about processing information, problems with closed-mindedness, etc. They are both discussing the importance of others having divisive and different views to cover one's blind spots (in other words, helping one with open-mindedness). He said that he was making conservative beliefs seem more legitimate before and now tries to be less open to obviously ridiculous things. He may be interested in learning outside of his paradigm - he just rejects obvious crap on the spot more often now. If you were more open-minded and tried to listen and understand him, you wouldn't come to any of your false conclusions.
@@pribyslavkomensky7103 interesting response. Thoughtful and time consuming. I agree with the spirit of everything you said, other than my not listening. I listened very carefully. I stated my personal opinion, which stands, even in the face of yours. I just do not respect his guest’s approach. Can I understand the frustration which lead him to it? You bet! But I think, personally, that when we sacrifice respect through general dehumanization in particular, we then are incubating a much bigger danger, as the history of human beings has demonstrated over and over again. Thank you for explaining your take. I appreciate the care you demonstrated and the relative civility of your delivery.
@@PetalynSwartHeartFueled I am actually not very sure about his radical, non-respecting approach. I only understand why he has it, but I definitely don't have my own opinion on it myself. It's up for a debate if it could be any good or if it's just bad. You may be right. In his view, conservatives who support Trump support all kinds of misinformation and harmful ideas for society. For comparison, they could be as bad as Nazis or neo-Nazis in his mind. By his words, he doesn't wish them death, but when it comes to it, he doesn't feel empathy for them. Questions arise: Isn't it natural to not feel it for people who we believe are led by the wrong moral compass or harmful beliefs? Should we pretend that we feel something for them when it's not true? I personally don't know. So you don't agree with him just on this, or is there something else too? Btw, I also like your thoughtfulness and general phrasing. It really feels like a conversation with a human being. So thank you for that. :) And I am sorry that I said you didn't listen; it just seemed to me that way.
@@pribyslavkomensky7103 you know, I just am not yet willing to give up on trying to be better than our archaic selves. While I totally grasp his frustration with people he views as ‘in the other camp’, I cannot yet give up on myself as a human being and all that I hope that comes to mean… the best of us. I think we will always repeat the worst of history when we see enemies everywhere, and further when we are willing to deny their humanity or right to stumble through- as everyone must stumble through. He is dangerously becoming what is most frightening about us humans. He only cares about his version of rightness and his assessment of what makes someone worthy of consideration. It seems exceedingly elitist and narrow focused. And entirely political. I agree with you so much that He isn’t concerned with ethics, nor higher levels of thinking through alternative paradigms. He seems to believe that he has the capacity to know what is right for everyone. And if someone, intelligent or not, is not aligned with his determination, they are not worthy of compassion or respect. In my very personal opinion, which doesn’t amount to a hill of beans since I do not know him personally, he seems either to have always pretended not to be this way, until now, or he has given up on our species as having a potential to evolve, and therefore it’s about control and power. I too give up on us many times a day, but at the end of the day, I am responsible for the world I reinforce through my point of view. How might our history ever turn out any differently than what we’ve had since human history began if, when things are at their worst, we do not choose something different. My questions are not a challenge… they are the questions I keep asking myself when I get frustrated and become saddened by those of us who, like him, give up and surrender to our darkest tendencies just to win a battle. What of the greater war fought within each of us to deserve our own hope for a better world by way of better versions of ourselves. To have better will always require being better. We will never have better by being our worst self. I have no desire to be in a world where there is no hope allowed but anyone who deems anyone else as subhuman. Anyway, it is nice to chat with you too. Thank you for your receptivity.
Still a mahalo both of you for the conversation with a goal of trying to still preserve the dignity of a conversation for further understanding perspectives in these very volatile times.
hes a wealthy person in America he literally just said this in a stream the other day. he would be fine without his stream he has no love for all you people that obsessively defend him.
@33:50 The problem with discourse these days right here. Tom is talking about reading a book and being "sure" Kennedy was assassinated by the CIA. There's a difference between knowing "I read a book my beliefs are shaped by it completely," and being open to evidence changing your mind. This is the age of a lack of humility. Dunning-Kruger. The issue is not a lack of information it's believing you have the authority on the incomplete information you possess.
Whatever your position on him is, Destiny is on the top of the list of internet persona in terms of putting the time and effort in forming opinions. It's always insightful to listen to him, even when I disagree
Just found this channel and love it! Our world would be a better place if we all approached every discussion with curiosity and an aim to understand. Cheers! 🙌
You found this capable of scratching your curiosity itch? That's surprising. I would encourage you to lose your curiosity right now about politics, because finding the truth in a world were the original lies were laid back some eight years ago, has divided this nation and it takes going back eight years to unravel the true truth. It's not an easy journey, and if you take a path to the right you will believe the right. If you take the path to the left you will believe the left. Going the middle road and only looking at the data points with your own mind, rather than being told what they mean, is a hard job. Most can't or won't do it. It's a more peaceful world where you are, just now becoming curious. But it's dangerous, where your mind will go if you don't guide it yourself. Good luck in whatever you do.
@@comfusedWorldpassanger3399 I think it's funny that people support Trump because of how he bullies people ("projects strength" ), makes up insults for his political opponents, talks about "2nd amendment people" taking care of others, but lose their mind when a liberal doesn't show sympathy for violence enacted on one of his supporters (by another conservative, to boot). Truly the dankest timeline. If this amiable dude were actively calling for violence it would be heinous and disgusting, but all he's doing is saying he doesn't have any sympathy for it, which is completely understandable in this context.
@@cahzriel_wonka Should have left it with your top comment dude. With this one you are just taking your mask off. Trump is not the bully here. He doesnt assassinate, jail or use mass media to demonize or suppress people.
@@cahzriel_wonka Well, if you think I support Trump because of the assassination attempt, you are wrong. I voted for him in -16, and will do so again this year because Trump IS the best candidate to lead the United States. And the world.
Toward the beginning, the guy said that Destiny is a really good debater. His justification? He gets lots of views. This is precisely the problem, these days. People have become so dumbed down that they genuinely believe that's a rational criteria for how it's determined if someone debated well or not. The number of views (which, btw, is easily controlled by the algorithms).
1:23:28 I 100% agree this is the best strategy to employ. I'm not sure how Destiny will respond but I would argue he is leaving this option open. On the Piers Mogan show he was asked to denounce the shooting, he said he would not do it but that was not the only thing he said, he said that he would do it if the other members of the panel denounced Jan 6 as an insurrection. That to me is leaving the door open for the opnent to act in good faith, but they refused to and hit him again to he responded in kind. As I understand it Destiny's point is that the repulicans are employing a strategy that is essential tat tat tat with no corrective positive tit while he and other people on the left has been doing tit tat tit. By giving that good faith option after every single action you are dishing out half the relations that you should be for optimal game theory. The optimal strategy they found was enough punishment to matter and then offering a hand at the end, you must retialate enough to ensure your own survival first, then offer a hand to go from survival to flourishing. It's a difficult concept for me to describe so hopefully some of this made sense, but I think its something like that.
@@RogerB-ip8dd I assume you either did not watch or did not understand their entire tit for tat conversation and it's basis as an effective game theory strategy
@@dcgamer1027he misapplied it, and so are you. Some people did some things that he’s outraged by even though it had no tangible effect on his life whatsoever… and he is using those whataboutisms to excuse his public cruelty toward a widow (a private citizen) and her now fatherless children, by sympathizing with the domestic terrorist who murdered her husband. Hopefully his minions will mind their manners, because I seem to recall Alex Jones getting into some hot water under similar circumstances. Fortunately, Alex has said he wouldn’t support what happened to him happening to anybody else, as a result of regrettable comments that allegedly incited an audience to harass private citizens who lost loved ones to an act of terror. It seems Desitiny thinks he gets to be the sole arbiter and beneficiary of selective outrage.
@@isJudgingYou There is literally no part about this that is whataboutism. He said he's not condemning it cuz the other side doesn't condemn anything. It's that simple. I think it's immoral but there is nothing inconsistent there
I dont think he and people like him are realising they are causing a massive wave of people waking the f up as a result. Constantly being confronted with opposite-to-reality- takes will easily make normal people second guess everything and check their heads.
The chat where they use the n word that makes lefties have panic attacks? Or they call mentally ill men the "T" word? That chat lobby? How about the naughty f slur?
Feel like a lot of Tom fans are missing the point of this episode - to me as a fan I’ve subscribed because I’ve agreed to go on the journey with Tom as he continues to nurture his perspective of the world - to observe how Tom builds his communication skills . I’ve never once created the expectation that information that’s comes out of a podcast should be taken as is - rather is it is grossly filtered through the topics constrained by the interviewer, in this case Tom. To me this is just one of Tom next chapters in building skills talking about controversial subject matters where splintering occurs across a vast spectrum of belief but is generally only labeled into a binary. And while others say that Tom is perhaps narrowed in his interest in covering only two sides (“both”) of the conversation - regardless of the multiple potential bins of ideologies (republic vs democrat vs “other”) this is where we are as a society. Constructing these stereotypes helps provide a jump point for us to begin figuring out the nuances of others perspectives - regardless of how flawed that initial assumption. Long story short - here for Tom’s skill building exercise/ exploration into what may seem to others as non representative of the “other side” or a form of irrationality.
Tom's responsibility is to curate the content so that the viewers time is not waisted. Our time on earth is limited, spending our time on things that have low value is squandering our time. A counterpoint from someone genuinely intelligent would have been great. This person is of very average intelligence. There are some VERY smart liberals. This guy, is not one of them. The average lifespan is less than 720,000 hours, Tom just caused thousands of people to waste a couple of them. Shame on Tom.
@@JCharlesWalstadAdd thiss one to the list of long, pointless, emotional comments attacking Steven personally and not the substance of his arguments and game plan
@@megabear8905Probably persuaded by the single fact alone, that Kamala is a candidate, who doesn't interfere in the peaceful transer of power in any way. Aka the democratic process. As everyone should.
youtube does automatic censorship so its probably them if it immediatly disappeared otherwise it can get mass reported or removed by the video creator.
youtuber is deleting everything, they use AI now, they don't even know what the AI is doing, you can be hit by random combinations of words. It's become hard to tell if it's the channel.
![[UA] NAVI vs MOUZ | BO5 | IEM Rio 2024](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/CMBYk0cbGoA/mqdefault.jpg)
Tom’s audience just confirming Destiny’s point about “centrists” being conservatives in disguise lmao
@@realityweasel8461 of course
Why? Because he sounds sofa king unhinged????? So they’re closet rightoids?????????
Bahahahahahagahaa 😂😂😂😂😂😂
YUP
Your subs are weird 😮
@@the19Zabaniyah that’s all you got??
"Conservatives" crying because someone platformed destiny? I thought you guys loved your free speech?😂
@@chrishamilton7516he never said he wanted you to die
@@daytheone8459shhhhhh the conservatives can't use their brain
@@chrishamilton7516 Offended at jokes? Lmao, easily triggered snowflake
@daytheone8459 He literally in this very video said all conservatives are secretly just fascists, lol. Also we can all see what he said on Twitter, lmao. Why do Destiny stans think tu quoque is a valid form of argument? Oh that's because Destiny keeps using it and they keep blindly following him.
@@chrishamilton7516 lacking sympathy for trumptard deaths is not wishing they'd die. EDIT: at 3:00 he literally says that he doesn't wish for anyone to die
This audience is not used to getting challenged lol.
This audience does not tolerate sentiments that encourage apathy towards violence because bad discourse becomes an excuse to become foul. No amount of faux sophistication excuses many of the points he has made. That being said 90% of the conversation on general topics are just fine but people are here to react to the 10%.
@@nathnaellegesse4 lmfao what a loser. yeah bro keep showing empathy towards people that literally want to destroy your country. what a mad world
@@nathnaellegesse4 "faux sophistication excuses many of the points he has made" name and shame them points, baby girl!
@nathnaellegesse4 Jesus. Destiny said SO MUCH, and you're fixated on one thing. In all fairness, for someone that agrees with almost everything he says, that take he had about the guy who died was very edgy. I probably wouldn't have said that if I had his platform. He could've just denounced it while adding a caveat. So, I understood his point, but a guy getting randomly killed is probably not the best circumstance to express that message. Nevertheless, it was an edgy take, not a mindless one. He's literally so correct on everything. One edgy take doesn't negate that.
most of Destiny's fans are still young so wait until they grow up a little bit and get a little wiser lol
It's insane that people say they only watched 3 minutes, then proceed to talk with authority on what he said as a whole. TikTok brains.
And complete proves his point that they don't care about the truth
@@MiasmaTazmaI have to presume that you agree with Destiny's position? I have to admit I'm guilty, I only got to 1 minute before I had to stop watching because of Destiny's "TikTok brain" position. Along with his first 60 seconds of nonsense, when I saw him sipping the red bull, I decided I had better things to do with my time. This is because I have watched him on another podcast I wasn't impressed with his logic, rationality, empathy or compassion. So as somebody who obviously did watch the whole of this podcast, I'd love to know what you thought.
@@liamweavers9291 I think he's right about alot of things. I know he does thorough research and even if I may disagree with his conclusion. His factual basis is mostly pretty solid. I understand that he can come off harsh and cold, although I don't think that makes someone a bad person. I've never seen him do anything morally reprehensible. If he had one of his detractors would have exposed him for it. I think he's fed up with the current political climate and I agree with him. I think the Left has been mostly push overs and it's nice to see someone pushing back. The Right has lots of people taking verbal swings and he's really the only Leftist swinging back.
@@liamweavers9291 "I watched .6% of the video and then I saw the person drink an energy drink. This is when I stopped watching" is a position you certainly can hold, but then you'll have to accept people will assume you do not have anything of value to contribute to the topic. It's like me commenting under a YT video of a political rally about how the speech was bad while saying I closed it when I saw the candidate walk on stage.
@@liamweavers9291 I think he's right about alot of things. I know he does thorough research and even if I may disagree with his conclusion, his factual basis is mostly pretty solid. I understand that he can appear cold, although I don't think that makes someone a bad person. I've never seen him do anything unforgivable. If he had one of his detractors would have exposed it. I think he's fed up with the current conversational climate and I agree with him. I think the Left has been mostly push overs and it's nice to see someone pushing back. The Right has gone mostly unchecked and it's nice to see someone that's willing to stand up to it.
Reading through the comments I’m starting to think that Destiny is right
and even if you disagree with him on some things, why do people need to absolutely rule off everything he says? It really does prove his point hhahahh
Definitely wrong, he’s left?😅
Then you've drank his koolaid.
@@saskiafinnan4216 Because of how intolerant he is to others. Glad this guy died? It doesn't make his own arguments look good at all.
He sounds like a POS who'd be happy if anybody who disagreed with him were imprisoned.
He's just another fool with a twitter account that angry people who can't listen to balanced arguments follow
Why is it so difficult to understand. That there is a big difference between saying that someone's death doesn't affect you because you don't know the person and saying that you find it funny that someone is shot dead because you don't agree with someone's political opinion. People who think like Destiny are dangerous to society. Whether you like it or not people have different opinions, they don't have to die for that. If you think so, then you don't belong in a free society.
A fellow republican shot him and they still found a way to skirt responsibility and blame democrats. Insane
The kid donated to democrats though do you guys just leave out important details to fit your narrative
@@Datníğğa123 he was registered as a republican, do you guys just focus on one detail, ignoring everything else to fit your narrative???
@@lazylurker2842 why did he donate to democrats then please explain
@@Datníğğa123 I don't think we know enough yet. But it seems to me like he felt useless and wanted to make an impact and be known.
He was apparently looking up the rallies of Trump and Biden. Trump just happened to be closer at the time
@@Datníğğa123Are you going to explain why he was a regisered Republican? If you have nothing relevant to say. Stop deflecting; it makes you look bad.
At first it was a bit too much for me to hear destiny saying "f**k that guy", but now knowing more about the context, I can see how unfair and even malicious Piers Morgan and others are to put the ultimatum between you are either condemning the firefighter being killed or you're glorifying it, like there're no other options. Such a bad faith narrative. It's clarified explicitly at 2:31:41 what destiny meant. Good podcast. The more I listen to him the more he makes sense.
I was super conservative when i first stumbled upon him but his thinking is logical. I don’t agree with everything he does especially now, but he can explain and argue through any of what he says. He is absolutely abrasive to those he disagrees with but that grit smoothed out the concepts in a way that helps me to settle on what is right.
I'm not sure if Destiny was compelled to comment on the killing of that guy, but couldn't he at least have stayed quiet if he had nothing decent/human to say? I mean isn't that a always the third option?
Piers and his other guests are not good. But Destiny had made that statement on his own channel by himself.
“Such a bad faith narrative” i swear to god if a leftist like hasan or a conservative was like ugh this is so hard being given two options between condemning and endorsing murder of my political opponents i guarantee this would be like considered an evil thing
But when youre a neolib and arguing for the status quo you can get away with this because ure acting in “good faith”, but if vaush were to say “i feel nothing if obama, netyuhah or henry kissinger died” we’d get numerous think pieces on how we shouldnt vote for free health care because “leftists are mean”
@@hubbabubba8083 my brother in Christ I think we have the same story lol
I have gone through the comments and have not seen one rebuke to anything Destiny said.
Obviously
It would take another 2 hour video to rebuke what he said, but almost everything he said was just hamsterizations and terminal TDS.
@@_APG_for sure bro
"TDS" is unfortunately one of the most succinct and yet effective ad hom attacks we've seen recently. Three simple letters that attempt to undercut any substantive claim without actually addressing it in any way shape or form. But it is par for the course. Trump and those who defend him have made great strides with simple sloganeering. However, to anyone who spends more than 5 seconds thinking, it's obvious that crying "TDS" is the exact same thing as shouting "NU-UH" through bleary, red eyes.
@@_APG_ Skill gap.
This audience is soo soft. Worse than the snowflake libs…
😂😂😂 you’re a psycho bro lmaooo
says the snowflake lib. dont laugh at dead people and tragedies and people will want to hear what you say jerk.
actually depressing how comments for every politics video have turned in to complete trash
@@KerplunkTM The internet is just bots and trolls for the most part. Couple years ago, you could have actual discussions in the comments. Now they are all hit and run comments, they never respond to replies.
@@Macheakoit’s so weird how you try to moralize the situation, and when that doesn’t work on a comment, you pivot to insulting people. It’s almost like you don’t care about corey…
The enlightened centrists in here are hilarious
I'm a centrist and I think Destiny is pretty solid. I am also Australian, so my centrism is probably classed as rank Marxism in the US.
@@Scarletpimpanel73 hahaha yeah dude Australian centrism is literal anarcho communism here lol. I should have said relative American enlightened centrist lol.
“Erm maybe dont shoot people in the head” is now enlightened centrism i guess
@@maydaymemer4660 ... He said political violence is bad in the first 4 minutes.
Not as hilarious as the tolerant leftists who abhor violence and censorship yet who keep demanding everyone be censored or murdered for disagreeing with them 🤣
@TomBilyeu There is a technical issue with this video. The camera feed showing both of you is out of sync with the audio, by a lot. I find this very distracting. Please fix this for future viewers.
I think its your device. I'm not seeing that problem.
I got a delay too like 2ish seconds
Oh my god, this was killing me. I thought it was on my end and tried rebooting, restarting the browser, closing down my Docker containers running in the background.
It seemed like it came and went a few times throughout this entire video. It seemed to be the worst in the wide-angle views where both of them are on screen.
The fact this comment has so little likes shows how little the deranged conservatives and fake centrists actually watched of the video LMAO
I noticed as well. I thought it was my internet.
Good feedback!
Tom just proved destiny's point by saying he's a centrist but of course voting for RJK. You're conservative dude! You just don't wanna be lumped in with the maga hat wearers
The classic either you are with me or against me. What happened to nuance?
Exactly. The left is a cult. Youre either on their team or youre a conservative. So dumb.
what makes someone conservative? Not voting for the dems?
It's so annoying when people pretend they have an biased intellectual curiosity but only platform 95% nutjobs they agree with. Lex Fridman does the same thing and Piers Morgan stacks the deck all the time.
@@raincadeify who cares
I think a better analogy for the “stubbed toe” concept would be: If you’ve ever had a spider on you and you see it, you deal with it, know the danger has passed and move on. If someone falsely tells you there’s a spider on you, you panic and start searching for something that’s not there while begging the person whom has told you to save you from the spider. If there were substantial empirical evidence in public information of election interference- we would deal with the problem, ease minds, and increase faith in the system. When you have a party telling you there’s election interference while having no empirical evidence, it creates panic and makes them believe that the only solution is to seek help from the people whom have told you there’s a problem.
Brilliant. Repeat this everywhere. (Not sarcasm, if that's in question)
I think these metaphors work perfectly together. 'Stubbed toe' explains how he got power, 'crying spider' is how he tried to keep it.
Excellent analogy!
And yet every single common sense proposal to strengthen the integrity and minimize the potential for election malfeasance is met with extreme resistance by the other party...
There is substantial evidence. That it has not been spoon fed to you by the corporate media nor have you been motivated to expend the minimal amount of time and energy required to research it, does not negate it's existence. But a problem is not actually a problem for people who perceive themselves as being the beneficiaries of the consequences, and nobody likes to admit when they have been played for a fool.
Great analogy! My question is at what point does an adult person say, "Hey, wait a minute... the same people keep telling me I have a spider on me but I never actually see it and it never does anything to me, even if it IS there, so it's possible they aren't telling the truth or maybe these so calleds piders just aren't that dangerous"?
RFK is not a centrist candidate. These folks just cannot see themselves.
It's hard denial. They don't want to admit that they don't consider policy and are totally caught up in manufactured outrage bullshit.
May as well vote for Alex Jones. They have almost all the same ideas.
Yes he is your just a lefty
@@Ma1q444 all centrists are left of Trump because he is a radical. Romney or Pence would be examples of republican centrists.
@@NugKnights he’s in no way radical
Nice to see Destiny laying out the justification for his extreme response. I really can see where he is coming from.
The first reasonable comment I have read. I certainly had a knee-jerk reaction of distaste for his original comments, but after hearing all this context, I can actually say my opinions have shifted slightly.
Yeah ngl it seemed a bit harsh at first. Not enough for me to turn against him as a person though
@@tezromaniabrainwashed 😂😂😂
You think those comments are justifiable
@Ma1q444 well I think you can joke about anything. But obviously, it is never a good look to make jokes about someone who just got shot.
Trump saying the second amendment people could “do something about Hillary taking away their 2A rights” is a hell of a lot more literal than Biden saying we need to put Trump in a bullseye. Trump’s statement implies an action should be taken, while Biden’s is a well known figure of speech and metaphor.
Also Biden said that in a private call with investors, while Trump said that at one of his rallies in front of a massive audience of his supporters.
Why should Biden apologize when Trump would never do the same in a million years?
Lmao. Go get your cafe macchiato with whipped cream and caramel and play on your Apple 🍎 computer
@@williamtuite1120 sounded great up until the Apple computer, I game on a real pc
Not going to vote for trump but he's right on that. People that try to take away rights "should be taken care of", don't like our core beliefs, gtfo.
The bullseye comment was stupid to say but I doubt he genuinely was hinting at literally putting him in a bullseye.
@@Roguecjb People had the right to marry kids before, will you defend that one ? People had the right to own slaves before, is that a right you would defend too? If the majority want a right to not be one then it isn't a right, that is the "core belief" of a democracy, also if the majority don't like a right then clearly it isn't a core belief by definition, a core value is something the vast majority has.
I'm here for the triggered comments
Same 😂
@@gnz9490 Cope MAGA sheep.
Eat a sausage then, you love it.
"Tolerant" libs are so weak. 😂😂😂
Triggered? You hijacked the term what it actually means, it means that someone is offended by someone that uses reason and logic. If you think that someone is triggered if his logic is that shooting on a president and the death of a father is bad then, i got news for you you lack logic reason and morals. You listen too mutch Destiny he is a middle iq puppet that tries to obfuscate his ill logic, and only the weak minded fall for his tricks
Destiny is way more reasonable here than people make it seem on Twitter.
Have you seen his twitter?
Whoa Twitter is not real life ??? News to me
By people you mean himself? 🤣
Tweeting "+1 for Biden in Pennsylvania" to a photo of bloodstained seats is reasonable? Care to explain how? Seems like the actions of a 12 year old to me.
@@funk0tron What is unkind =/= unreasonable. The tweets are obviously intentionally inflammatory - it's the actions of a 35 year old trying to piss people off, and it worked!
This comment section perfectly encapsulates the problem. Good luck.
I was unable to find any comments from conservatives. Literally every comment I’ve read here seems to agree with Destiny.
@@ArnoldSchwarzenegger-ny2jn I thought the same for a second but open the replies to any of those comments and you'll find what you're looking for
@@ArnoldSchwarzenegger-ny2jn??????
The comment section is all pro destiny lol. You sure about that point??
@@jessiejoy1703 Literally open the replies and you'll find plenty of ppl playing defense without engaging with any points Destiny made. Ppl aren't used to a fan base that actually wants facts.
I’d love to see Tom host a few of his viewers who disagree with Destiny on air for a 1 on 1 conversation with Destiny. I think Tom could keep things on the rails and constructive.
So we could hear the conservative destiny fans deny the 1000+ pieces of evidence that walk you to the obvious conclusion that Trump tried to coup the government?
That's not realistic. Maybe he'll do that after Candice Owens or Ben Shapiro goes first 😂😂😂❤
I would love to see that!
Destiny obviously would crush any of them on a factual and a rhetorical level.
His viewers seem to be mostly mindless trolls who write "TDS" repeatedly. None of these people would ever show their face in a real room for a real conversation.
I wish more people would take the time to reflect on this conversation. Because these problem are not going away and it will only get worst.
Wurst?
@@TeeheeTennessy Bratwurst 🌭
I love sausages
I wish this convo had been 5 plus hours. Honestly I would love to see them do several more conversations in the next 6 months.
The longer Tom talks, he sounds more conservative than centrist.... the longer Destiny talks, he reaffirms who he is.
I’ve been watching Destiny for a few months now quite regularly, even watching content from over the last few years. The only time he’s changed his opinions is when he’s received new information. He is absolutely a man of conviction, generally doesn’t form concrete conclusions before putting in the research, n is never afraid to voice those conclusions/opinions. I may not agree with him on everything but at least I know I can trust the things he espouses
@vanessa4truth297 Watched him for years now and he's become one of, if not the, most grounded commentators.
Like you say, he puts the work in so that he can come to a conclusion, rather than cheerleading a side and post hoc reasoning to a position.
His approach to Israel Gaza are a great example and while I may disagree on some elements, he's always totally across the facts and assigns conviction relative to the significance of those facts.
On that basis, he's always worth listening to, even if I come away disagreeing sometimes, I'll have rigorously challenged my views and reached a better understanding which fulfills my most valued goal when listening to people in this space.
I loved this video. Listening to Destiny talk is always the best when he is talking with someone who is open to hearing what he is saying and has the willingness to understand it too. For the most part, people just shout their own narrative and just grab keywords from their 'opponents' speech to further their own agenda.
I really think this whole sense-making apparatus is a really good approach to conversations. I only wish more people would participate in this with this thought in mind rather than having an opinion from the start and sticking to it regardless of what is said.
I agree. I also gooned to your pic (very cute)
Yeah this is Destiny in his best form cuz he doesn’t need to be combative n the viewers are much more open to his message. I see lots of people saying that they understand his thoughts on the assassination attempt n not having sympathy for the guy who died now that they’ve heard his reasoning for the opinions he has. He really gained a good amount of new followers with this interview n also pissed off a lot of conservatives 😂 just read through some of these comments to see the whiny Trumpers hating on him but never offering anything of substance to disprove anything Destiny says
Absolutely...
But Destiny's position on centrists shoots him in the foot...
I want to and do use Destiny as part of my sense making apparatus... but then he proceeds to say centrists don't exist... so I must be a Conservative and conservatives are Fu***** dumb...
He needs to stop this polarising narrative for no damn good reason.
People can exist in the centre and advocate for the right... because we advocate for the left when the right does stupid s***...
Our job is to counter stupidity when it occurs... but it almost seems that Destiny is so willing to call everyone dumb that when's called dumb for doing that repeatedly... he word rather paint those criticising him in a polarised way to avoid actually having to self-reflect on that.
He's really good on the fact of the matter and giving grace where he thinks people could potentially lean his way... but his elimination tactics beyond that aren't any better than those he criticises.
“I’m an adult and I never really cared about politics but now I’m forced into it and I identify as a ‘centrist.’”
Adult baby’s first ideologies: libertarian or centrist. Shocking!
Strange. Most young people I know are, as I was, a "Proggressive Leftist" and it's only later in life that they change to a more 'conservative' point. I think that usually the very strong will to change things and be special is mostly a juvenile thing. So I think being a centrist and putting a bit more value on our built knowledge instead of shouting for changes is a more mature thinking and not an Adult Baby thinking.
This guy brings up a conspiracy book about JFK several times whilst admitting he hasn’t done the relevant research to draw any conclusions from it. Then he….proceeds to draw conclusions and form arguments about the deep state based on what he’s read so far. I’m so tired of the intellectual laziness of people like this. How about you finish the book, read another one from a different perspective, do some more relevant research, think about it some more and then bring it up six times in your next interview. Then the rest of his talking points revolve around vague ideas about “values”. We need more literate thinkers in this space.
The deep state doesn't exist. All intelligent people know this. I don't know about Tom now.
Destiny' quote about centrists is so accurate. Never met a "centrist pundit" who did not play constant defence for Trump, while holding every Dem to another standard.
Your just a lefty
We're supposed to buffer both sides...
We are supposed to disagree with both sides... if you have to alienate the centre then you literally make it impossible to be on your side...
If I agree with the right on XYZ and you on ABC but you're going to condemn me for agreeing with the right in ANY capacity whatsoever... then I am not right by choice.
I have verified my political position on the political compass test and I don't sit in ANY quadrant...
@@spazic1493 Maybe you are a true centrists, I can't tell you that. I just had enough of these fake "centrist pundits" like Tim Pool whose whole channel is based on bashing anyone on the left and always grading Trump on a curve. And when you call him out he says I'm pro choice or for healthcare for all. But that doesnt really matter if your whole channel and all your other actions are just standard right wing shillery.
Maybe normal centrists are different, but give me one true centrist pundit in the space right know. The closest may be Lex Fridman. But even he downplays things like Jan 6th, while calling out Democrats of innane stuff.
He's so fucking right about mainstream centrists all being conservative and going to work defending Trump.
Pundits and talking head centrists, yes. But actual moderates and centrists voted for Biden overwhelmingly according to the exit polls.
Centrists are supposed to buffer and criticise both sides...
If you're on the left then of course you're going to see centrists appear to be on the right... we're supposed to stop you going too far left... just as we're going to criticise religious fundamentalism.
I've done the political compass test and I'm not in any particular quadrant... smack bang in the middle... so I have sought form of verification for my Centrism...
But I keep getting accused of being right wing... so I genuinely believe the left has no idea what the centre is... if they have any opposition or criticism... it must be right wing or conspiracy theory...
No different from the right thinking I'm left wing and a government shill...
@@spazic1493 It seems like the overwhelming majority of 'centrists' when pushed to say who they'll vote for either abstain or say they will vote for Trump. Centrism isn't just 'everyone is bad' because that is 100% totally disingenuous. Anyone who sincerely loves America and democracy cannot, and should not, vote for Trump whatsoever.
There is a mountain of evidence about an attempt to push fake federal documents in seven states directly connected to Trump and his legal team in the electors plot.
If you vote for this, you don't deserve a free and open society. Full fucking stop.
One of the candidates professes disdain for the constitution. I'm not sure how any centrist wouldn't find that specific point absolutely unacceptable on any level for any candidate. My fucking god what are we talking about here.
I used to dislike Tom's interviewing style for a few of its nuances.
For this guest those nuances are fantastic.
this is the first podcast of his that I've seen, I thought he was fair with this Destiny chick and challenged him effectively. This was a good convo
@@breadconsumer5833
I think Tom's another former liberal that's finding out how far the left has strayed from sanity land. This conversation was revealing for all of us.
@@breadconsumer5833mr donatelli is a 35 year old mans name
@@ryzikx lol, he won't get it.
"Is calling someone a threat to our values creating problems?" This is the wrong question we should be asking.
"Is this person a threat to our values?" Is the only question we should be asking.
@@lawsonharrison6927 Which person? Which values?
@@roycebryan1692 Donald Trump is a threat to the fundamental American values
Yes a bad question leads to bad answers and confusion. Some question are just not worth answering .Why does this always happen to me? That is a question that will confuse and derail. Change the question. For your question you assume your values are good and everybody shares in your values from the start. What are these person values? And are these values better than my values?
@faulker2p Fair enough. If the conclusion is that the values are "bad" then what would the next question be?
@@lawsonharrison6927 What are "good values" and why are they good. And most importantly are values really the what important in that specific case. For exempl I value life vs the military or death penalty.
21:15
"No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed, it has been said that *democracy is the worst form of Government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time* "
- from a Nov 1947 speech to the House of Commons. As it implies, he was not the first to say it.
Too bad America was never, and will never, be a democracy.
I love when two foxes and a rabbit argue over whats for dinner.
@@somethingthisway
The word for that issue is 'majoritarianism'; which can exist in both. Typically the alternative in both is 'constitutionalism', or liberal checks and balances more broadly. At least in the west, systems of both names tend to be constitutional.
Formally, republics are defined by having a president rather than a monarch. They can however be oligarchies.
Democracies are defined by the power residing with the populace (typically representative through Congress). They are allowed to have a figurehead monarch, or can be part of a dual system (e.g. UK).
The two, as such, do not contradict. France and the US are democratic republics, at least on paper.
That of course is a significant note. Russia is a republic, but it might as well be a monarchy. The Netherlands is a monarchy, but de facto a republic, while the Dutch Republic frequently was a monarchy. Nobody knows what the UK is, least of all the British. The Democratic Party acts much as an oligarchy, while the Republican Party's leader is seen by many as a pseudo-monarch. We'll not even get into "democratic peeople's republics" ;). Anwyay, enough rambling.
@@somethingthisway America is a democracy. Democracy is an extremely broad term that basically just means "through some system, the population votes for the government they want". Whether that is through representatives or directly voting on policies or whatever. That is all democracy is.
I see people confuse this with the concept of "direct democracy" which is a more specific system. Yes, certainly America is not and has never been a direct democracy. But America IS a democracy.
His idea that american democracy is better than all the alternatives is laughable. Ranked choice voting is better, proportional representation is better than an EC, having a cabinet you can vote on individually is better than having a president that appoints people himself. This is the most bizarre cope, i dont like aspects of my country but Britain’s democracy is way better than America’s right wing versus far right system
@@somethingthisway This is one of the stupidest points I ever hear, and only right wing Americans say it. America is a constitutional federal republic, which is a form of democracy.
Jesus.
Wouldn't expect a man that abandoned his own child to praise one that died defending his.
I mean his son is with him as we speak.
@@hunterbowmam5339yes he flew his son in and then proceeded to stay streaming for nearly 20 hours straight.....
@PhreakPhantom yes, streaming is his job. When I was a child my parents had split custody, and both had to work. You're also definitely inflating the "20 hour" thing. Hitting at his parenting has always been a super weak critique. I was just pointing out that you use of "Abandoned" is dumb.
@@hunterbowmam5339
His “open”relationships has no basis in solid family values for children. His Hedonistic lifestyle aligns with his Marxist ideology and lifestyle.
He is not a stalwart example to aspire for a civilized society community and family.
Listen learn and wake up to this “rules for radicals” godless Marxist .
I empathize with him. Everyone is in an echo chamber and science doesn’t seem to matter.
“Science doesnt seem to matter” destiny literally said he wouldnt consider if gaza got nuked a genocide
@@maydaymemer4660 Do you have any idea what "intent" means? The OP is talking about you. You're not engaging with the idea of genocide critically; you seem to have your own definition.
@@maydaymemer4660 He is correct. Nuking a city isn't automatically genocide. Are you dim?
@@maydaymemer4660 Just to add on; Whether something is a genocide or not has absolutely nothing to do with science.
Commenters spamming insults seem triggered.
Russian bots 🤖🤖🤖😂🤣
@@bennymountain1sometimes i believe the cons when they call libs npcs. These are 2016 era memes and these boomers still use them
Bussin Bots 😩😩
@@maydaymemer4660 Why do you care? Don't worry about it bud.
All the commenters are clearly from Destiny’s audience……so I’m not sure you are hitting your intended target here 😅
Why is the audio so desynced on the wide shot?
I thought it was just me 😂 weird
i guess from the different camera angle cuts
He had to push this interview out very fast I get it haha, but yeah I noticed it too.
poor editing
The editor literally had one job.
1:03 “beliefs are so abstract now.”
I love Destiny’s rock example, showcasing how relatively easy concrete beliefs that are false can get disproved quickly. But now that things are so abstract it’s relatively less easy. My summary lacks much of the nuance. This part is great! Reminds me of Alan Watts talking about this very point about how problems used to be based on things that were more concrete. Like war over a woman (Troy). Now it’s about Capitalism vs Communism vs Socialism. The nature of abstract and concrete reality bares the relationship of the map to the landscape.
Crazy that we are still fighting over economic systems that were designed hundreds of years ago by authors who would not even be able to conceptualize computers or AI.
The host didn't think Kennedy's vaccine opinions are crazy?
Are you new here?
@@MzCraziLady I haven't seen a lot of Tom's stuff.
@@lonecandle5786 RFK call leaked confirming he's a Trump plant lmao Destiny had the host's "centrist" schtick from the get go
@@brianitis Any one who is active in politics to any degree and calls themselves a centrist is a republican in disguise
@@brianitis I think you might be surprised by Tom (the host). He is extremely good at taking in new information and allowing it to reshape his opinions and beliefs. I don't think he is your average "centrist".
This guy would vote for RFK Jr? And people think he's intelligent?
I only hope that he is not aware of all the crazy things rfk believes.
But to express support towards your followers for a candidate you don't really know is already a bad thing to do.
You are voting for Kamala and you think you’re intelligent?
@Ma1q444 I'm not voting for Kamala I'm voting against Trump
@@JhonNye96 so your voting for Kamala lol
@Ma1q444 Look, the Democrats suck but I'm not going to let my dislike of the Democrats incomptence take the joy away of Republicans losing who have consistently shown since the Regean administration to be way more destructive for America than the Dems in a non two party system i would never vote for the dems but here we are
Destiny stated that he does not condemn the shooter. He said this is because it is the Republican’s fault due to their divisive rhetoric, increasing the probability of an assassination. Honestly, this approach lacks human empathy (Trump is still a human being and the shooter should be condemned, regardless of how polarizing trump may be)
Also, he made fun of the audience members who died from the shooting, justifying it behind the statement that it was their fault for attending a republican event such as this one.
I don’t know destiny, but this seems quite harsh at the very least, and disgusting at most.
Yeah let me just offer decorum to people who posses none and do everything in their power to foment division.
@@Smoink two wrongs don't make a right. i despise trump and his supporters but they still possess the sanctity of human life that gives all of us our inalienable rights and value in the world. assassinations & political violence are an unlawful, unamerican and immoral part of our history we have to move on from.
This comment section is malfunctioning because they’ve never had someone on this channel challenge their worldview. Cognitive dissonance 🤯
You are so fucking arrogant what
Yeah that must be it 🤡
I used to be somewhat a fan of destiny because he seamed reasonable and well researched on most of his topics. The last few weeks he's been unhinged. Being ok with political violence and making fun of an innocent father who died. He's become exactly what he made fun of, streamers like Vaush or Hasanabi who lost their shit due to being online too much.
@@LK-ui9rx”well researched on most of his topics”
This is probably his second most researched topic after Israel Palestine. If you don’t like his opinion now, it’s because you disagree with the research. Not because anything has changed in his politics
Pro Destiny Bot comment ❤
Same thing happened in the UK. Tories got away with shocking greed and incompetence wrapped up in a flag, but the scales finally fell away. The US hopefully will follow.
The same thing happened in the UK?!? I must have missed the Tories refusing to peacefully transfer power. I must have missed the UK Supreme Court effectively ruling that whatever the Prime Minister does is legal. The comparison here is completely dumb, and - if you know anything about UK politics - you should know that.
@@nickelmouse451 You dont seem to know anything about US politics, so it makes sense your comparison is dumb.
@Tiasung Can you explain please why he is wrong? I want to learn about US system i am abroad
@@Tiasung Which part was the lie though.
@nickelmouse451 you're talking out of your arse. Stop being a rude twat.
The tories literally tried to change several rules after they were caught breaking them, they've engaged in divisive cult like politics, and have done significant damage to the country.
That is similar to what happened in the USA, so don't be so pedantic and intolerant.
Was it just me or Audio/Video is out of sync? (some camera scene's more than others)
I was looking to see if it was just me, thanks for the confirmation before I went crazy trying to fix it myself
It was...I was just about to comment on that until I saw yours lol.
It's just the foundation of reality breaking down....don't worry....everything is about to end.
@@ghost9-9ghost agreed
Na Destiny just moves his mouth in a weird way
Speaking only for myself, I hope that content creators like Tom keep having this guy on. The margin of victory in November needs to be large enough to overcome whatever 'fortification' will be implemented.
😂
It also makes unnational people more assured in their delusion and their ideas of how to respond. Unnational responses are not usually good or healthy.
Unnational? Well done.
I watched some of Tom's videos a few years ago, and am coming back now for this interview. I either missed it a couple years ago, or maybe he has changed, but man is Tom ever so conspiratorial. This reminds me so much of the Destiny + Peterson interview, minus the colorful disagreement and debate.
I've never once seen anyone try to apologize for the BLM riots. What world does he live in cause it's not this one.
He spoke out against the riots, and got demonetized on twitch for it.
Why should they apologize.. the jan 6 rioters never apologized, the south never apologized causing the civil war. US never apologized to slaves or descendants, native americans, mexicans or chinese..
Tom, I love that you do this. I disagree with Destiny a lot, but good to hear his opinion.
You've never heard this exact same opinion before? Wow, that's something I've not heard in about seven years.
49:30 This is surprise for me, as long time critic of Stephen's, that he would ever course correct. I thought he was way too soft on Shapiro and Peterson and could have easily shut down some of their ridiculous and smug positions. He literally let Peterson walk away thinking he'd dunked on the libtards in one fell swoop just because Stephen sat there and let him ramble on nonsensically. I've been curious if if he was just bored by grandpa's inanity or if he was thinking it was so silly it wasn't worth the time.. So, it's interesting that a fire got lit under his ass, and I'm glad to see it.
Would love to see follow up discussion with JP, Shapiro, Owens.
Agree. I used to really enjoy his content not because I always agreed with him (and I still don't on some things) but because I could at least see he was following a logical thought process, arguing in good faith, and we had a common goal and disagreed on things that are reasonable to have disagreements about. But it became impossible to watch him be so passive with not just conservative but absolutely batshit commentators that they became somehow aligned or put in the same group even though they actually disagreed so heavily. Hearing him say that is on the one hand depressing because I really wish it was possible to just have good faith discussions and bring people over slowly, but also really vindicating and positive because I think it's a much better direction for him to go until the conservative thought window is back into a normal area.
@@fu5ha_edits An apt analysis.
I think he originally thought there was credence to the right wing positions. Partly this was due to his desire to distance himself from the left. It was cathartic for him to find comradery in a mutual dislike of the left. But he decided to be too friendly to the right. He wasn't willing to call out their hate based motivations because he thought he needed to make that concession in order to be in the same room as these conservatives. Now after he looks back at his last 2 yrs in the road with the likes of pbd, he understands that he surrendered his biggest weapon by not basing his arguments on the fundamental and in in my opinion correct principle that right wingers never argue in hood faith. You only have to peel the onion back a few layers to see the pettiness and feelings based reasons for their motives. They go low when making their points by attacking the motives of their opponents. Destiny failed to understand how critical it was to do likewise when debating these reactionaries.
@@Supercalifragilisticexpial-r2x Yes, he was definitely taken in by the idea of being platformed by the leading far right figures of social media. I think this was around the time he permanently lost his twitch stream (from saying blm protestors should be mowed down, etc) and he might have just been trying to replace lost income. I wondered if he was about to go the way of Rogan (for years claimed to be a centrist Dem and now is a full on right winger) and Pool and Rubin. His performance at the LF "debate" on Palestine was appalling. And letting people like Shapiro and Peterson, who aren't even close to his intellectual equal, burble out their nonsense unchallenged and call it a debate was inexplicable. Thankfully I didn't catch the Bet David one (sounds gross), but I did see PBD's exchange with David Pakman, and that was entertaining. Pakman is no chimp, but not equal to Stephen's bandwidth either, and he wrapped PBD up np.
POV: you're looking for these "centrist" / " conservative" cry babies in the comments
Haven't seen one
You have to actually look for them. The ones at the top are the most popular.
They're mostly in the replies not OP comments as well
If you have to look for people to revel in the misery... that's pretty sycophantic... not sure that's really a moral position...
Seems a lot of people that are "morally superior" aren't doing it for the betterment of society... they just want to be right... and contradict their own damn position they claim to hold.......
@@spazic1493 Woah.. that's a lot bold assumptions. Who are you talking to? Did someone delete a comment?
If you’re upset with Destinys position on this, feel free to let him know! He will gladly buy you front row tickets to your emperors next speech :)
Found the tolerant peaceful non violent leftist who hates hateful rhetoric... 😏
I wish they would send this guy to Russia or North Korea and he would see how different it is in another world where he wouldn’t be able to speak against a former president the way that he is now. And yes, speech is free here but try it somewhere else too bad he doesn’t try to live somewhere else and see what it’s like. You will never find a better country than this.
you're telling him to shutup because he's allowed to say stuff here he's not allowed to say in other places like it's a privilege. it's not a privilege. it's a first amendment right. that's the point.
Tom Bilyeu is hands down one of the best communicators on this planet. The best!!!
Lol the Eve online reference, what a champ.
Man look at all the "definitely politically centrist" commenters here... 😂
Being a conservative is embarrassing
It's freaking weird.
Only if you hate white people
Lol. Im voting Kamala too
@@Smoink being a lefty is embarrassing
being a leftoid is weird.
Maybe people are just offended because they’re tired of seeing common decency becoming some kind of ancient relic of the past.
Destiny spent 2.5 hours calling Tom an idiot but because he didn't use the specific words, "Tom, you are an idiot," he has no idea and just had that lost look on his face for the duration of the interview.
This is one of the best Destiny interviews in years.
Destiny is the kind of girl to say something based after a traitor is shot.
my little pony, why im i not surprised? 🤣🤣🤣
50:13 If you say to yourself, I can’t understand how people think this way… These people are crazy. You don’t understand your enemy, you understand nothing…
I think it’s the fact that so many people on the right come to the table in bad faith…it’s exhausting
The left NEVER does anything in good faith.
@@westonmeyer3110 Really? Ok, let's try this out quickly.
Climate change by means of Anthropogenic global warming is a fact. There's no debate to be had there. You either accept the fact for what it is, or you delude yourself into an objectively false belief. This is no different than flat earth. The earth is objectively round. It can be proven to be round in multiple different ways. It being round leads to a number of different effects, that have predictive power. Not accepting the fact that the earth is round is a delusion.
So, what are your thoughts on global warming?
Both sides do, but it happens more so on the right.
I love how you give people the chance to explain their thought processes, I do think the rhetoric on the right is insane and it seems like they're lashing out without giving substantial critique. SUBSCRIBED ❤
Audio needs fixing in terms of sync though
Subscribed
You seem to be in the minority..... many are unsubscribing.
The rhetoric on both sides is insane. 🤷🏾♀️.
Destiny didn't give any substantial critique or even answered many of the questions Tom asked. Destiny in the past week or so is the personification of "lashing out". He has no sympathy for a fellow American who died saying one less vote for Trump as if this is a game he's playing. Or that he would vote for Biden even if he were in a urn..... If trump is deranged, destiny is suffering from Trump derangement syndrome.
@@BouncySlim1 I thought all the responses given were quite introspective or at least were fine, is there an example that you can point out which you feel like wasn't substantive?
Tom at least did his due diligence in terms of probing and criticizing Destiny's methods and rhetoric in this conversation, it does feel like people are only subscribing because they don't like the guest and aren't particularly criticizing the material of the video.
From the other side I've seen no sympathy for people like Paul Pelosi, another fellow American who got attacked in their home, so all I see is hypocrisy. If I saw exemplary behavior from the other side I would absolutely criticize Destiny, but I would probably agree that is far from the case.
@@SnappishLace
Destiny has a way of saying a lot, but saying absolutely nothing. I have an obsolete cellphone........
I don't watch much news, so was unaware of the attack on Pelosi until Destiny appeared on Piers Morgan. The attack on Paul sounds awful and was absolutely wrong. Violence of any nature should be condemned. That being said, (this might be just me), there's no equivalence of the attack on Paul and the attempted assassination of trump. One was private and the other public. Let me explain. There were thousands of men, women and children in attendance at the rally. If the gunman were successful and trump got his brains blown out, imagine the mental scars that would have marked the lives of all those in attendance...... especially the children. There will be some PTSD for those who watched as Corey lost his life trying to protect his family as well as those who were injured.
Quote:
"If I saw exemplary behavior from the other side, I would absolutely criticize Destiny...."
Did you actually read what you wrote? That statement is super hypocritical. You recognize that Destiny needs to be criticized, but won't because of what the other side is doing . Destiny deserves to be criticized *NO MATTER * what those on the other side of the aisle are doing. This is partly how our country has arrived to this point. No one in my camp can do no wrong, and if he does something wrong, the other side is doing wrong, so the wrong on my side is right.
Call out wrong on both sides.
Stand up for righteousness.
Conservatives, focus on being correct and not what your group thinks. Bonnell is a great pipeline to reality.
Self-note: @6:00 - expresses disatisfaction with comments that resort to the superficial rather than responses borne from analysis of specific arguments.
@28:45 construct of 'best faith' akin to good faith vs bad faith.
@34:08 "hueristics"
@35:40 Destiny evaluates Tom's structural thought-process
@38:34 underlying understanding is crucial for reliable thoughts
@1:03:50 I literally JUST binged Chernobyl. Great show.
This comment section highlights the problem Destiny is talking about. People react first but don't wait to think because going against that emotional reaction makes them uncomfortable. The stronger the reaction is, worse it is to overcome it. And people have spent time in their echo chambers for a very long time.
My respect for you, being able to keep your eye on the goal of the conversation while listening to this individual exemplify everything he says he hates, whilst he seethes beneath a thin veneer of objectivity, has jumped so much higher than the high bar I see your intellect as.
To his point of not wasting his time talking to ignorant people (who I assume he gets to decide when and where that designation begins) I would not waste my time or energy engaging with him because it appears to me that he is not interested in learning something beyond his paradigm. His approach is demonstrably arrogant and narrow. He is dangerous and I don’t care what his politics might be…. He is an instrument of felling democracy and thwarting human potential toward something better than we’ve been. In my ignorant opinion, no doubt.
I think you just don't listen. These two guys agreed on a lot of things during this conversation, and I would say they are similarly intelligent and sensible. Tom reached out to him because he saw him as a sensible voice out there in a general discourse, but his take on no symphathy triggered Tom's belief that division is the only thing that guarantees us a bad outcome. Destiny clarified that he sees that currently there is lots of crap in the minds of people (conspiracies, immoral conservative beliefs, and just factually wrong stuff), and liberals are supposed to kneel while conservatives avoid responsibility with their atrocious beliefs. He believes they raised the temperature in America, and he can't respect somebody who supports Trump because of January 6, etc.
Everything you said is wrong. You don't understand how Tom really views him - he doesn't need respect for having a conversation with him because they have a similar take on issues, and it seems there is even chemistry between them.
He is not ignorant or close-minded. He is talking in detail about processing information, problems with closed-mindedness, etc. They are both discussing the importance of others having divisive and different views to cover one's blind spots (in other words, helping one with open-mindedness).
He said that he was making conservative beliefs seem more legitimate before and now tries to be less open to obviously ridiculous things. He may be interested in learning outside of his paradigm - he just rejects obvious crap on the spot more often now.
If you were more open-minded and tried to listen and understand him, you wouldn't come to any of your false conclusions.
@@pribyslavkomensky7103 interesting response. Thoughtful and time consuming. I agree with the spirit of everything you said, other than my not listening. I listened very carefully. I stated my personal opinion, which stands, even in the face of yours. I just do not respect his guest’s approach. Can I understand the frustration which lead him to it? You bet!
But I think, personally, that when we sacrifice respect through general dehumanization in particular, we then are incubating a much bigger danger, as the history of human beings has demonstrated over and over again. Thank you for explaining your take. I appreciate the care you demonstrated and the relative civility of your delivery.
@@PetalynSwartHeartFueled I am actually not very sure about his radical, non-respecting approach. I only understand why he has it, but I definitely don't have my own opinion on it myself. It's up for a debate if it could be any good or if it's just bad. You may be right. In his view, conservatives who support Trump support all kinds of misinformation and harmful ideas for society. For comparison, they could be as bad as Nazis or neo-Nazis in his mind. By his words, he doesn't wish them death, but when it comes to it, he doesn't feel empathy for them.
Questions arise: Isn't it natural to not feel it for people who we believe are led by the wrong moral compass or harmful beliefs? Should we pretend that we feel something for them when it's not true? I personally don't know. So you don't agree with him just on this, or is there something else too? Btw, I also like your thoughtfulness and general phrasing. It really feels like a conversation with a human being. So thank you for that. :) And I am sorry that I said you didn't listen; it just seemed to me that way.
@@pribyslavkomensky7103 you know, I just am not yet willing to give up on trying to be better than our archaic selves. While I totally grasp his frustration with people he views as ‘in the other camp’, I cannot yet give up on myself as a human being and all that I hope that comes to mean… the best of us. I think we will always repeat the worst of history when we see enemies everywhere, and further when we are willing to deny their humanity or right to stumble through- as everyone must stumble through. He is dangerously becoming what is most frightening about us humans. He only cares about his version of rightness and his assessment of what makes someone worthy of consideration. It seems exceedingly elitist and narrow focused. And entirely political. I agree with you so much that He isn’t concerned with ethics, nor higher levels of thinking through alternative paradigms. He seems to believe that he has the capacity to know what is right for everyone. And if someone, intelligent or not, is not aligned with his determination, they are not worthy of compassion or respect. In my very personal opinion, which doesn’t amount to a hill of beans since I do not know him personally, he seems either to have always pretended not to be this way, until now, or he has given up on our species as having a potential to evolve, and therefore it’s about control and power. I too give up on us many times a day, but at the end of the day, I am responsible for the world I reinforce through my point of view.
How might our history ever turn out any differently than what we’ve had since human history began if, when things are at their worst, we do not choose something different.
My questions are not a challenge… they are the questions I keep asking myself when I get frustrated and become saddened by those of us who, like him, give up and surrender to our darkest tendencies just to win a battle. What of the greater war fought within each of us to deserve our own hope for a better world by way of better versions of ourselves. To have better will always require being better. We will never have better by being our worst self.
I have no desire to be in a world where there is no hope allowed but anyone who deems anyone else as subhuman.
Anyway, it is nice to chat with you too. Thank you for your receptivity.
The bit near the beginning where the host tries to explain perspective like he made up the concept killed me 💀
Agree. Just another silicon valley start up wanker who thinks his vocation is to save humanity.
If you say to yourself, I can’t understand how people think this way… These people are crazy. You don’t understand your enemy, you understand nothing.
That's most people though.
The wide camera is out of sync with the audio
Still a mahalo both of you for the conversation with a goal of trying to still preserve the dignity of a conversation for further understanding perspectives in these very volatile times.
Totally agree with this brother...I feel his pain.
hes a wealthy person in America he literally just said this in a stream the other day. he would be fine without his stream he has no love for all you people that obsessively defend him.
Destiny is exhibit 1A of the failed american education system
You've got to be kidding.
@@tyruswillier7358 lmfao, you lack comprehensive skills but I dont blame you for that American education system.
@@CM-zu9vgplease enlighten us all on why he is wrong on the topics.
@33:50 The problem with discourse these days right here. Tom is talking about reading a book and being "sure" Kennedy was assassinated by the CIA. There's a difference between knowing "I read a book my beliefs are shaped by it completely," and being open to evidence changing your mind. This is the age of a lack of humility. Dunning-Kruger. The issue is not a lack of information it's believing you have the authority on the incomplete information you possess.
These comments are demonstrating his point beautifully.
Exactly. The lack of self-awareness is actually astonishing.
Destiny fans are delusional.
1:52:25 Im glad, on top of the audio desync, that we got to see your reaction to what Destiny was saying for like 90secs straight lol.
bro this had me fucking dead lmfao
Tom's explanation of game theory to Destiny is the best thing I have seen on the internet today.
Whatever your position on him is, Destiny is on the top of the list of internet persona in terms of putting the time and effort in forming opinions. It's always insightful to listen to him, even when I disagree
Just found this channel and love it! Our world would be a better place if we all approached every discussion with curiosity and an aim to understand. Cheers! 🙌
You found this capable of scratching your curiosity itch? That's surprising. I would encourage you to lose your curiosity right now about politics, because finding the truth in a world were the original lies were laid back some eight years ago, has divided this nation and it takes going back eight years to unravel the true truth. It's not an easy journey, and if you take a path to the right you will believe the right. If you take the path to the left you will believe the left. Going the middle road and only looking at the data points with your own mind, rather than being told what they mean, is a hard job. Most can't or won't do it. It's a more peaceful world where you are, just now becoming curious. But it's dangerous, where your mind will go if you don't guide it yourself. Good luck in whatever you do.
I'm just here to see people mald in the comments. Great episode!
Copium
So what's your take on this amiable dude?
@@comfusedWorldpassanger3399 I think it's funny that people support Trump because of how he bullies people ("projects strength" ), makes up insults for his political opponents, talks about "2nd amendment people" taking care of others, but lose their mind when a liberal doesn't show sympathy for violence enacted on one of his supporters (by another conservative, to boot). Truly the dankest timeline. If this amiable dude were actively calling for violence it would be heinous and disgusting, but all he's doing is saying he doesn't have any sympathy for it, which is completely understandable in this context.
@@cahzriel_wonka Should have left it with your top comment dude. With this one you are just taking your mask off. Trump is not the bully here. He doesnt assassinate, jail or use mass media to demonize or suppress people.
@@cahzriel_wonka Well, if you think I support Trump because of the assassination attempt, you are wrong. I voted for him in -16, and will do so again this year because Trump IS the best candidate to lead the United States. And the world.
The fact that the guy with the glasses believes he is a centrist show exactly how delusional American conservatives currently are.
Toward the beginning, the guy said that Destiny is a really good debater. His justification? He gets lots of views.
This is precisely the problem, these days. People have become so dumbed down that they genuinely believe that's a rational criteria for how it's determined if someone debated well or not. The number of views (which, btw, is easily controlled by the algorithms).
Good talk. Very enjoyable to see Tom engage in the arguments.
1:23:28 I 100% agree this is the best strategy to employ. I'm not sure how Destiny will respond but I would argue he is leaving this option open. On the Piers Mogan show he was asked to denounce the shooting, he said he would not do it but that was not the only thing he said, he said that he would do it if the other members of the panel denounced Jan 6 as an insurrection. That to me is leaving the door open for the opnent to act in good faith, but they refused to and hit him again to he responded in kind.
As I understand it Destiny's point is that the repulicans are employing a strategy that is essential tat tat tat with no corrective positive tit while he and other people on the left has been doing tit tat tit. By giving that good faith option after every single action you are dishing out half the relations that you should be for optimal game theory.
The optimal strategy they found was enough punishment to matter and then offering a hand at the end, you must retialate enough to ensure your own survival first, then offer a hand to go from survival to flourishing.
It's a difficult concept for me to describe so hopefully some of this made sense, but I think its something like that.
yeah he kind of said what I said, he would go back if the Republicans do, but due to their pattern of behavior they have to do it first.
One bad action doesn’t have anything to do with another. Not condemning attempted murder because you disagree politically is insane and immoral
@@RogerB-ip8dd I assume you either did not watch or did not understand their entire tit for tat conversation and it's basis as an effective game theory strategy
@@dcgamer1027he misapplied it, and so are you. Some people did some things that he’s outraged by even though it had no tangible effect on his life whatsoever… and he is using those whataboutisms to excuse his public cruelty toward a widow (a private citizen) and her now fatherless children, by sympathizing with the domestic terrorist who murdered her husband. Hopefully his minions will mind their manners, because I seem to recall Alex Jones getting into some hot water under similar circumstances. Fortunately, Alex has said he wouldn’t support what happened to him happening to anybody else, as a result of regrettable comments that allegedly incited an audience to harass private citizens who lost loved ones to an act of terror.
It seems Desitiny thinks he gets to be the sole arbiter and beneficiary of selective outrage.
@@isJudgingYou There is literally no part about this that is whataboutism. He said he's not condemning it cuz the other side doesn't condemn anything. It's that simple. I think it's immoral but there is nothing inconsistent there
Destiny must think it's perpetually opposite day.
Best comment
I dont think he and people like him are realising they are causing a massive wave of people waking the f up as a result.
Constantly being confronted with opposite-to-reality- takes will easily make normal people second guess everything and check their heads.
Why was RFK ever considered the centrist candidate? Unbelievable
cause youre far left.
@@wackpendejo3000rfk literally endorsed trump and is trying to get a position in his cabinet. He’s far right
These comments make me feel a lot of hope
These conservatives now a days wouldn’t last 2 minutes in a call of duty voice chat … “he said “we should all die”” boo hoo
The chat where they use the n word that makes lefties have panic attacks? Or they call mentally ill men the "T" word? That chat lobby? How about the naughty f slur?
Feel like a lot of Tom fans are missing the point of this episode - to me as a fan I’ve subscribed because I’ve agreed to go on the journey with Tom as he continues to nurture his perspective of the world - to observe how Tom builds his communication skills . I’ve never once created the expectation that information that’s comes out of a podcast should be taken as is - rather is it is grossly filtered through the topics constrained by the interviewer, in this case Tom.
To me this is just one of Tom next chapters in building skills talking about controversial subject matters where splintering occurs across a vast spectrum of belief but is generally only labeled into a binary.
And while others say that Tom is perhaps narrowed in his interest in covering only two sides (“both”) of the conversation - regardless of the multiple potential bins of ideologies (republic vs democrat vs “other”) this is where we are as a society. Constructing these stereotypes helps provide a jump point for us to begin figuring out the nuances of others perspectives - regardless of how flawed that initial assumption.
Long story short - here for Tom’s skill building exercise/ exploration into what may seem to others as non representative of the “other side” or a form of irrationality.
Tom's responsibility is to curate the content so that the viewers time is not waisted. Our time on earth is limited, spending our time on things that have low value is squandering our time. A counterpoint from someone genuinely intelligent would have been great. This person is of very average intelligence. There are some VERY smart liberals. This guy, is not one of them. The average lifespan is less than 720,000 hours, Tom just caused thousands of people to waste a couple of them. Shame on Tom.
@@JCharlesWalstadcouldn’t disagree more
This is a good comment, thank you 😊
most comments are so repetitive as to be bots.
@@JCharlesWalstadAdd thiss one to the list of long, pointless, emotional comments attacking Steven personally and not the substance of his arguments and game plan
Wow, so nice and refreshing to see people have a conversation. No animosity, just discussing their ideas.
Is the video not in sync witht he audio for anyone else?
Yep, its not in sync
Hubris and delusion. Not a good combination.
What's your view of Trump?
IS THIS REALLLLL???? Jesus thats my streamer!
My streamer! 😂
Jesus is disappointed 😂😂
Do better soy boy
Soy boy
im pretty sure the quote he was looking for around 21:00 is "democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the other ones"
Great interview very interesting. Did not think i would/could listen to this but glad i did
What ideas did you think were the most interesting?
I see some snowflakes in the audience who aren’t used to being challenged lmao
If you have problems with this try clearly explaining your points
All I've seen is destiny fan boys.
Good conversation, Tom. Thank you! Good luck to you, Destiny!
Tom - Great question “What is the destination you are trying to get to “ Destiny is intellectually honest. Ask that question to guests from now on.
I consider myself centrist and I’m voting Kamala!!
Name one specific policy that won you over.
@@megabear8905Probably persuaded by the single fact alone, that Kamala is a candidate, who doesn't interfere in the peaceful transer of power in any way. Aka the democratic process. As everyone should.
@@benebeck5628 then im voting trump.
either this channel or youtube deleted my comment. censorship is a sign of fear.
youtube does automatic censorship so its probably them if it immediatly disappeared otherwise it can get mass reported or removed by the video creator.
All of my comments get deleted
youtuber is deleting everything, they use AI now, they don't even know what the AI is doing, you can be hit by random combinations of words.
It's become hard to tell if it's the channel.
@@ringofkaren nope... Every single thing I write disappears
Why is there a cut when he mentioned World Economic Forum?
The WEF did that.
It’s because the government hides 5G X-ray cameras in ur walls and cybernetic chinese spiders under ur skin.
Whatever. Someone probably farted. But by all means take it and run 🤡 it was ThE dEeP sTaTe😅
@@mrsherwood2599 I was just thinking sponsor or inside joke
@@MatthewZimmerman-om5yi 5 bucks on fart.
I like that they were able to have a civil discussion
😅
Thank you Tom and Guest. Bravo we need more of these conversations