Harvest Right Freeze Dryer- When a Vacuum Leak Isn't a Vacuum leak
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- Опубліковано 8 лют 2023
- Insufficient Vacuum Message? Can't find a leak? Are you frustrated? Perhaps you have a dirty vacuum sensor.
Harvest Right Part Numbers:
Vac Tube Kit (Kit-VTB)
Vac Tube ELC-B0005
Vac Board ELC-B0004 - Наука та технологія
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2 months of trouble shooting and finally I found this video. I cleaned the rhermocouple with rubbing alcohol gently swishing and lt it sit a few minutes. Thanks to this information, my Freeze dryer is now functioning better than ever. I am so very greatful to you for sharing this with us.
Great to hear.
I have been researching freeze driers for a few weeks and no-one seems to discuss the mechanics but you. Thank you sir! This is the type of stuff I’ve been looking for.
Glad to help
Very interesting. Thank you for sharing this video Phil. Happy trails!
Thank you so much Phil. Very clear and informative.
Yet another excellent informational video from Phil 👏👏👏. Many many thanks!!! 👍👍
Best info I’ve found so far! Thank you.
You are such a blessing to me. I love that you have such good info and helps!!!
Great video, will give it a shot tomorrow. Developed widely fluctuating pressures despite constant vacuum pull from a Premier and oil free pumps. I suspect it’s my problem and I might be able to avoid submitting a ticket to HR. Saving $! Thanks!
The next day: it worked! Yay!
November 2022, per your recommendation, I changed these parts and it fixed my inaccurate vacuum reading problem.
Good to know. Vacuum leaks can be frustrating.
@@Philat4800feet TY!
Good Stuff Phil, thank You.
Wow that's why. Thank you
Excellent video, Phil, thank you for demystifying the sensor and how to maintain it!
Quick question please... When testing for leaks, how long should the FD maintain a vacuum after I turn off the vacuum pump?
Not long for a deep vacuum (anything under 2500 mtorr). The vacuum check valve in the pump isn't designed for that amount of force.
What exactly is the solvent used I’d like to try and clean my sensor before purchasing a replacement kit!
Super informative video finally someone explaining the mechanics. Thank you!
M.A.P. Sensor Spray. Found at auto parts stores.
Phil, in my training, I was told not to replace Thermocouple wires with anything other than the original wires (or special extension wires). The reason for this is that the thermocouple wires are made from two different materials, such that if you add 2 wires such as "copper" wires to them, they will then create a voltage (due to two different metals at a junction) which will throw off the readings. I am curious -- do the cable connectors use special wires for the thermocouple ?
Good questions. I can't speak for HR, but I don't think they are that close to "attention to detail". The makers of the vacuum sensors recommend to mount the sensors as close to vertical as possible to keep junk and moisture from building up inside. HR sensors are mounted horizontal. I don't think wire selection was a debated topic.
We just got our freeze dryer a few weeks ago and since the bread run, we haven't been able to get adequate vacuum. Completely empty we get around 380 MTor, when loaded we get around 1450. So far it's just a $3000 boat anchor. Have checked all of the external fixes but haven't cracked it open yet.
Sounds like your food is sublimating and isn't rock hard frozen. There's a fix coming soon that may help.
Mine also only pulls a deep vac about 1 out of every 6 times I run it. I’ve done more freezing and defrosting of the unit
Tried the ohms test using alligator clip ends and recorded 2.1 on one & 2.2 on the other so i am guessing that's good then. cleaned it out with alcohol will see if this helps. cheers Phil.
Good luck
Hello. I enjoy watching your videos. They are informative and helpful. I learn things I know nothing about but now I at least have a clue. :) I have only had my HR for about 3 months and immediately had an issue but they sent my updated software to the most recent version as of January 2023 that seemed to fix the issue. However, when the machine is vacuum freezing it doesn't stay under the 500 mT stays around 770 to 780. I have only run about 10 or 11 batches. I don't sit and watch it so I don't know if it ever gets to below 500mT at any point in the process but it seems to process the food correctly. Any input or thoughts.
Have you checked for any leaks? You should be able to get below 500 mtorrs. Got tools?
@Phil at 4800 feet Yes sir. Nothing fancy but I have a few and can get more if needed.
Phil, I want to thank you so much for making this video. We’ve been plagued with the dreaded “inadequate vacuum” message for several months. Not only that but occasionally we’ll get a message that says it can’t cool to an adequate temperature. I can’t remember that message. I spoke to HR customer service numerous times and it was getting to the point where they wanted me to send the machine in. I tried to tell them that I suspect a sensor error but what do I know? I suspected a sensor error because my temperature would change 10° in 10 seconds and I knew that wasn’t accurate or really even possible inside the FD. Prior to cleaning the vacuum sensor my machine would only get to approx 1500 mT when doing the vacuum test and then would rapidly rise to something very high then would wildly swing between mT. But after watching this video I went and got a can of MAS cleaner, removed my vacuum sensor and cleaned it like you suggested. Reinstalled it, did a vacuum test and it pulled down to 244mT. I don’t think I have a vacuum leak. Ran a batch of food and it worked perfectly. Does the vacuum sensor also detect the temperature in the chamber?
The temp sensor in the chamber is from a thermistor under the heater element, I believe on the second tray. Looks like a worm under the skin. I'm glad the video helped.
@@Philat4800feet Back to square one. Still getting the Inadequate Vacuum message. I think my FD is not getting cold enough or our garage in this heat is not helping. I put 4 frozen trays in an X-Large FD and it took almost 16 hours for it to get to -10F for the vacuum pump to kick on. Then it seems to work great but during the cycles when it’s on its way back down to 500mT it stalls around 520 but will eventually make it to 500 where the message disappears and everything is back on track. Right now we’re at about 35 hours total time. We live in Oklahoma and it has been hot here. Does the temperature of the environment the FD is in make that much of a difference?
Outside FD temperature should remain below 85 degrees.
What software version are you running?
I guess you have check for vacuum leaks?
@@Philat4800feet it pulled down to 244 mT on the test run so I would assume I don’t have any leaks. Is that a false assumption? Running 5.0.23
@@Philat4800feet a new problem. Freeze dryer won’t come on at all. No screen power and no refrigeration compressor. The little green light on the back of the screen is on, I have 125 volts where the power enter the circuit board and I have good continuity on the black and white power wires that go to the circuit board. The other day I turned it on and nothing happened. Turned it off and on and it came on. I turned in a ticket in with HR but have heard nothing. Really frustrated with their customer support. I figure in about a week they’ll send me an email to set up an appointment a week out. HR didn’t used to be this way. When I called with a problem I talked to someone right then. This is our third FD from HR and all three have had problems. We bought our first one in 2014. Any suggestions as to what it may be or a work around?
I have wondered about this sensor many times. Just how accurate it is. I am wondering about the voltages across the pins on an accurate sensor. The resistance will change on amount of contaminates in it as well as the voltage.
I love this video.
The sensor works for the Harvest Right program and that about it. My micron gauge is more accurate, and the readings are never the same. HR could make it more accurate at a cost but is it really worth it?
cdn.digivac.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/SEN-VGT500-Data-Sheet-7-21-2022.pdf.pdf
Is the thing you’re using to look inside an otoscope? Do you have suggestions for how to buy the right one of those tools? Thank you!
Yes. I just purchased a cheap one from Amazon
Thanks for the info. A few points to consider; HR uses commercially available vacuum sensors, not really proprietary. You may consider using gas rated (thicker) PTFE. Notice the yellow color of what came out. New units require two screws to be removed from the GUI bezel prior to removing the top cover. You didn't show the comparison as mentioned. Instead it appears an old video was edited in.
I was surprised not to find any markings on the sensor, so it was hard to run a proper ID on it. I also understand that HR has made a lot of changes to the inner chassis.
That looks like a Yellow Jacket thermalcouple. They tell you to use alcohol and shake it around and then drain it to clean it.
I was wondering about the yellow tape too. That did not look like HR factory taping on the thermo-couple. Was that tape original Phil?
Great video as always!
@@kevinrowbotham545 That was OEM tape.
@Philat4800feet Not sure how to properly contact you Via UA-cam.
Here is the problem,
we are experiencing:
Vacuum pump was pulling +2500 mtorr, not pulling the required 500 mtorr vacuum.
I have disassembled and reassembled our Harvest Right 7 CFM HRC-7-115, SN #19010091, several times.
It will start pulling a vacuum, often getting down to 200 mtorr sometimes while running quiet and smooth.
After anywhere from ½ hour to several hours, the volume and pitch of the vacuum pump changes and it vibrates more, gradually loosing vacuum to +2,500mtorr. It seems to run hotter at this time but perhaps the heat is from extended operation?
I have not checked the thermocouple, but plan to I cannot find any vacuum leaks?
To measure vacuum with a gage, I suspect I would need an accurate Differential pressure gage?
Any ideas?
Thanks for any assistance!
Great job Phil! My new freeze dryer started the same thing a week ago. I dry a bunch of goat milk which is very fine powder. Cleaned out the pump with a back flush. That removed a bunch of junk. Gunna try this next. How much was that sensor, board from HR?
I had one from warranty. You would need to call HR
how long does the goat milk keep once you have reduced it to powder?
@@gmwwc I would think done and packaged right 24yrs. I’ve opened up milk from 5 years ago and mixed and it tasted great!
We also do a bunch of eggs as well. Also a very fine powder when done. We dry them raw so they can be used in cooking all kinds of stuff.
Hi Phil,
I have a strange one.
Recently my freeze dryer started taking several hours (6 to 8) from batch start to get below 450mT to start the drying phase. After the drying starts the unit dries normally, heaters turn on, when the pressure raises above 600mT the heaters turn off.
What I have done on a recent batch is wait until pressure is below 500mT in vaccum freezing (about four hours from batch start) I hit the leaf for manual advance drying starts and the pressure raises and falls as normal with heater on/off and the strange thing is on the first heater cycle the pressure raises above 600. Heaters turn off and the pressure drops well below where I manual advanced and the cycle continues.
Seems like the vaccum pressure sensor heater filament is dirty, the pressure sensor doesn't work normally under cold vaccum with cold water vapor but when the heaters turn on there is warm water vapor under vaccum in the chamber which aids the dirty vaccum sensor heaters, possible?
Just a thought, looking forward to your thoughts, I think I need a new vaccum sensor what do you think
Ps, my last batch with excessive vaccum freeze time ended the cycle with a final mT of 188.
Have you tried cleaning the sensor? Another problem could be the small sensor board. If either one goes bad, the result could be the same.
@@Philat4800feet thanks! I will get the massairflow cleaner and give it a try.
I have a pic of my wires after I cleaned it, can I show it to you? There’s something on the point where the wires cross but I can’t tell if that’s dirt or if it’s supposed to be there.
It's common to have what looks like a "solder joint" where the wires cross.
I had mid cycle batch errors and my mTorr and temperatures were all over the place, causing water to mix into my oil. (eg from 500 to 1200 mTorr and -12 to 120F). The V5.1.24q solved the batch errors, but my mTorr and temperatures are still all over the place and are still causing water to mix into my oil. I'm probably needing to wait for the next software fix.
Software can't fix physical leaks or design flaws.
Felix fix harvest right. Look it up in the tube.
Thermocouple Gauge, 531/521 that visually is similar is $115 neighborhood.
Probably the minimum to expect and sky is the limit.
My problem is not knowing the input and output values.
Was the new part ordered from harvest right directly?
Yes, part came from HR
What is the stuff you are supposed to spray in there to clean it? How do I purchase that? Thanks?
Mass air flow sensor cleaner. Auto Zone or other auto parts stores.
I just talked to customer service to order the part. It consists of the Vacuum Tube Senor ($150), Vacuum Tube Control Board ($35), and Vacuum Tube Cable (no price given). They sell a kit with all 3 parts and it is called the Vacuum Tube Board Kit [Kit-VTB] for $203 plus tax but has free shipping. These prices are on 10/26/23.
When all else fails, this my be your solution.
I forgot to say Thank You for the valuable video in the above post! I just reported the above information so if anyone else asks and have to order they at least have an idea of cost. I did clean it as you suggested and went ahead and resealed every vacuum connection since I had the cabinet apart. When I first ran it after cleaning it still fluctuated wildly, so I ordered the parts. I decided to go ahead and run a batch and it performed as it should, other than about midway through the 1st batch it reported the temperature dropping down to 35 and then going up, and then going down. I had never noticed it doing that before and it could be normal, just hadn't caught it. At least I haven't gotten the Inadequate Vacuum Error message and the mTorr goes down and stays down now. I didn't have a vacuum leak, so cleaning the vacuum tube sensor was the fix I needed. I just took out my 3rd batch since cleaning and resealing. BTW I have over 300 cycles on my medium and only had 1 control board to go bad and had to replace the drain valve twice. I do enjoy your videos and I'm grateful for the time and effort you put into them. Thank you again! @@Philat4800feet
Glad it worked
Hello i forgot to close the drain valve before starting , it was only open for 20 minutes. is my fd ruined 😢?!
Nope, Close the valve and continue..
Did cleaning the sensor work? You never told us if it restored it of normal operation or if it was simply broken and had to be replaced.
It worked. I was having problems with the pressure jumping all over the place.
You've been a great help so far. Thank you
What would you suggest if the level is constant at 850-950? I retefloned (gas spec) everything with a thread, liquid tape, and wrapped with silicone tape. I also checked front seal. Same constant level remaining. I'm asking if the sensor is a possible issue because I would have to take off all the barrier layers I created. I was thinking it may be a possible pump issue (new model oil pump). Considered buying the Hilmon micron gauge. FD only 10 months old for personal use. Not run hard 24/7. HR wants me to send the unit from Toronto (international shipping $$). This is after telling me the unit is fine at that level with the new 5.X firmware...sure. Starting to feel the frustration.Thanks Phil @@Philat4800feet
Maybe a dumb question, but isn't it the change in readings as the FD process progresses vs the absolute readings from the sensors that matters? Meaning, does it really matter if they get dirty and the transmission between sensors is lowered? As long as the delta over time is accurate. But if it fixed your issue, I guess it is the dirty wires.
And thank you for making these! I learn a lot from them.
No such thing as a dump question- just an enquiring mind.
The upper and lower threshold of the vacuum 500-600 mtorr, measured by the vacuum sensor, is what triggers the heaters to turn on and off. A dirty sensor would alter the mtorr, but should still work but not as accurate. If accuracy matters?
@@Philat4800feet got it. Thanks for the reply!
How would I order that magnifier thing to look inside? Is that what a doctor uses to look inside peoples ears?
Yes
I have pharmaceutical unit being used to make med for cancer patients
Do you have a link to purchase this sensor? ideally from manufacturer?
Sorry, no. I had to get one from HR. The old sensor didn't have any markings.
Try pouring it out into a clean white coffee mug so you can see the dirt that was in it.
Good idea
Do you happen to have the part numbers from Harvest Right. They always want you to pay to talk to a technician.
Vac Tube Kit (Kit-VTB)
Vac Tube ELC-B0005
Vac Board ELC-B0004
😎
We did this process, and it seemed to make my mtorr worse. The name of my freeze dryer is Frosty, but now it only says Fros...does this mean my motherboard is bad?
Sounds like you could have multiple problems that could be traced back to the motherboard.
how do you check for vacuum leak?
I have several videos on the subject
Take the sides off the FD and toss them out. HR wants us to work on our machine all the time. Not only pay a ton for the FD but buy a box of tools to keep it working. It might help to install a 90 or 45 degree fitting holding the vacuum sensor in a drain down position and making it harder for crap to get to the heater wire. If the system has no vacuum leaks, why is the pump running the whole time? My new 3-2024, HR Large pro, pump has a vacuum leak inside, less than one minute to loose all vacuum after pump is turned off. I want to cut the vacuum hose and install a check valve with a tee and a vacuum gauge on the food side. then the pump can be turned off for the rest of the many hours of dry time. I recommend you add a vacuum gauge to your system and not rely on the digital gauge. I think the FD process would work better and faster if the vacuum was at 25 torr or 28 in/hg. please feel free to respond and lets fix this mess.
The vacuum pump needs to run all the time because the sublimated water (moisture) is constantly making atmosphere and needs to be pumped out. Not all of it is frozen on the chamber wall.
You are right, the vacuum sensor needs to be mounted vertically.
I have a 304SS tee just off my pump with a micron gauge.
I have made little modifications here and there to get my batches down to around 24 hours.
@@Philat4800feet To move water vapor you would need air flow, with a sealed system it should all freeze in the chamber. How would the water know where the suction is coming from ?If you can find the time to try experiment, Close up the machine and pull 5 minutes of vacuum, turn off the pump and remove the muffler, can you feel suction in the pump muffler hole? how long will your machine hold vacuum with the pump turned off? Thanks for your time.
How do I order a new vacuum senser
I wasn't able to spec out the sensor. You'll need to contact HR. Try cleaning before replacing.
What type/brand of micron gauge do you use.
Hilmor CVG1200 around $110.00
@@Philat4800feet --- For that Model---> Does this connector come with the fitting to connect to the JIC fitting on the HR Pumps? or is there something else I need to purchase? I need to validate that my Low Profile Oil-Less VAC PUMP is not working before I start the GREAT CHASE on a possible vacuum leak with the HR UNIT.... I have already completed the FULL BLOWN famous "FELIX FIX"...
@@syexplorarconmigo8853 Most gauges come with a 3/8 compression fitting. A hydraulic shop would have all the fittings and adapters you would need.
Has anyone found another source for the Sensor only? Seems a bit steep.....
HR keeps the specs a secret. You can buy them but without knowing the sensor's parameters, you're in the dark.
@Phil---- if you are prototyping a Moisture Collection system to go on the HR FD--- I will PAY for my own way to be apart of this experiment-- as the less moisture that enters the Vacuum PUMP-- the longer mine will last between service intervals.... The Low Profile Oil Less pump is a child of a lesser god for sure....
I have played around with in-line vacuum filters and desiccant , but the only way to remove any additional moisture would be a freeze trap. I'll keep tinkering.
It's a maraca...but thanks for the informative video!
Try, Try again
@@Philat4800feet oddly enough, I didn't have a problem with the FD until after I watched your video! (I'm sure no cause/effect but the timing was perfect.) I woke up this morning to an "unable to acheive vacuum" error, but the door seal clearly proves a good vacuum! Thanks again for posting this info, as cleaning the vacuum sensor is one of the likely culprits.
What was the cost of the parts?
@@majorhavoc9693 Most part there are expensive... but then again it is complex machine
if this fails can you get a high heat warning?
This sensor measure pressure. The worm looking thing, under the heating pad, on the third tray, is a thermistor. That measures heat by resistance.
@@Philat4800feet thanks Phil
Good video... but focus on the camera isn't your strong suit.
In the good old days cameras had an adjustable f-stop.
Why not use 99% alcohol to clean the sensor?
Good question. The MAP sensor and the heated wire are closely alike. I suppose any good cleaner that will leave "free and clear" could work.
Awsome please help me do u have email or facebook
Phil, I could use some advice/help as well. Any chance we could get in touch?