Demi Lovato: "calling aliens aliens is offensive." Also Demi Lovato: "Let me buy these fake or stolen artifacts from a culture I have no connection to"
kenny williams no they were referring to extra terrestrials not immigrants because in regards to immigrants I agree completely but that’s not what they were talking about
@@kennywilliams8580 I agree that using this word with humans is derogatory, but she was speaking about extraterrestrial beings, not humans. The reason why the word is bad to use for immigrants is because the word is dehumanising because it is the word for "extraterrestrial creatures" and using it for human beings kind of means they are not seen as human by the person or institution using that word, but beings from other planets literally *are not humans* and therefore "alien" is the correct word for them.
The only person I'm ok with haveing a massive private collection is Phil Collins bc his private collection is on loan (might be a permanent loan situation) to a real museum
A lot of it is common enough it's not sought out by museums. Stuff like ancient roman and greek coins are pretty cheap, depending on the specific coin and quality. A lot of it is common enough museums aren't interested, or museums already have similar items collecting dust in storage. It's a bit different for super rare pieces of course
Yeah I went to Glypoteket in Copenhagen and was really inspired and wanted to get some antique/renaissance statues for my apartment but like... you can just buy reproductions? Or commission statues/sculptures? Sure you won't have the knowledge that it's super duper old but if it's meaningful to you then it's meaningful to you.
It's using art as a financial investment that grosses me out the most. Like did they buy that painting/sculpture because they like looking at it or because they think it's going to increase in value?
Yeah, it feels kinda icky. Old coins and stuff is less gross because they are so common, but, as someone else pointed out here, just buy a reproduction if you like how it looks so much! If you're fascinated by the culture, visit the country (if you can), go to their museums, LEARN about them, don't just buy stuff
I am currently completing my PhD at the University of Pennsylvania in Near Eastern Archaeology, and this LITERALLY BOILS MY BLOOD. People outside of the discipline have no idea how much real damage this causes. I have excavated in Israel and Iraq, and have worked with collections from Egypt and Turkey as well. Here are the main points I wish people would understand about this topic: 1. Buying any artifacts, AT ALL, promotes looting of sites and the LITERAL DESTRUCTION OF HISTORY. Every site I have worked at in the Middle East has had to have LITERAL ARMED GUARDS to protect both the site and the archaeologists from looters. If we found great artifacts, we would have to stay on site until they were all excavated and safely taken out so they could be brought to locked storage, sometimes having to work 4-5 extra hours in a day just to make sure things would not be looted. Looters are dangerous, and are willing to hurt other people to get artifacts and sell them illegally. 2. Once an artifact is taken out of the site, MORE THAN HALF ITS HISTORIC VALUE IS GONE! Artifacts are only as meaningful as the context in which they were found. Archaeologists often care far more about excavation notes and documentation than we do about the object themselves. Without knowing the exact location, depth, soil type, depositional layer, surrounding artifacts, evidence of disturbance, etc etc, most of the value that object had for illuminating history IS COMPLETELY LOST. 3. The promotion of collecting artifacts actively harms the practice of scientific archaeology, work that is done to promote the truth of our human past. Even if not illegally looted, by collecting artifacts at all (as a private person or unaccredited institution) you are promoting illegal artifact looting and dealing, and the value of objects over actual historical information. I literally have so much more I could say on this, but will leave it at this. Please like this comment so people will see it. @Swell Entertainment , Please pin this comment. I would also be happy to answer any questions you have about this topic from someone who works in the field of Near Eastern Archaeology and had seen first hand the repercussions of actions like these.
As an archaeologist I totally agree! I hate the buying and selling of artifacts, it makes me physically ill sometimes when I see whats for sale and all the information that has been lost. Everyone that watches this video, please note that archaeology has nothing to do with Indiana Jones/Looting and the sale of artifacts.
Yes! I am by no means an archaeology expert but was an anthropology major and one of the first things we learned was that the value of artifacts is in what they can tell us about the humans of the past. The concept of archaeology has become grossly misconstrued by people outside the field, it’s about learning about human history, not being antique collectors. Everything about looting and buying and selling artifacts is dangerous and damaging.
We have such amazing museums here in Africa showing OUR history. There are issues such as the Timbuktu Records in Mali being threatened of being destroyed by terrorists - but many want them to be held temporarily in another African country because we do not trust the Europeans to give them back if they hold them.
They wouldn't. So many artifacts in European museums are there because obviously the people from the countries those articles come from couldn't be able to take care of them, we need white people to protect them from ourselves 🙏
I feel like there’s so much more value in collecting goods from around the world made by people who are still alive. I have a beautifully crafted camel wallet from Tunisia and the money from my purchase benefitted Tunisian craftsman who were severely impacted by covid. You can have beautiful, unusual things without destroying history.
I think so, too! unfortunately I also think too many people are "interested in culture" only when it comes to obsessing over the static, romanticized past. they'd rather focus on stolen/fake artifacts than support living, breathing, dynamic aspects of culture 😒
@@kkuudandere yeah people love ancient Egypt but couldn’t care less about anything they’ve done in the past thousand years. People also like rare/difficult to obtain things as status symbols which is gross
Buying directly from craftspeople is definitely a better thing to do! And it's good to support people directly, but just speaking as someone who's indigenous and has seen it first hand the tourist market can also "destroy history" sometimes. When it's peoples livlihoods on the line, indigenous people can and will change what their making to appeal to what tourists want to buy, even if it means completely changing our practices to a different cultures that's ironically perceived as more "authentic". One example from my culture is cowichan sweaters. They weren't actually a part of coast salish culture pre-colonially and are inspired by shetland/other european knits but with our own unique style. The demand for these items played into the demise of our blanket weaving practices because the sweaters were more profitable in a time where we were prohibited from other sources of work for income. BUT also in the 60s/70's a tourist interest helped sustain a salish weaving revival with the salish weavers guild. So it can definitely go both ways!
Sorry for the long-winded response!!! Also I really don't mean to shame anyone for supporting tourist markets as it's not a black and white issue! I really do think in general it's a positive thing, I just felt like there needed to be some nuance explored in the idea that craft tourist markets(even when they're goods made from the community of origin) can't be capable of degrading historical practices.
@@ectoplastiic totally agree and was going to mention this, but your perspective was definitely appreciated as someone who watched it happen to your own culture. But yes tourism can def have both a negative and positive impactive on especially indigenous but also poc population. Little bit of a tangent, but def adjacent, I live in metrodetroit so I’ve watched how detroit and surrounding cities have gained and lost funding, and especially right now, are being pushed to be heavily gentrified. And what ends up happening is the local, small, bipoc owned business are relying on the same white middle class to keep them afloat that is currently pushing them out of their long-time homes, and it’s really fucking sad. Oh the joys of the intricacies of systematic racism.
This seems 100% on-brand for Demi Lovato. I took an art history class in college and am a HUGE fan of the show “Antiques Roadshow” and if you watch it just a few times, you understand how important provenance is for almost anything - let alone ancient artifacts and incredibly immoral items. Demi deserves all backlash coming, regardless of if these antiquities are real or not. How dumb.
Can we talk about the fact the reason we don’t have many mummies (considering how many were excavated) because the Victorians would crush them up into powder and eat them because they thought they had healing properties. They had mummy parties and everything where they’d buy a mummy to do this and it’s absolutely horrific. We can thank my art history professor for bringing that to my class’s attention
@@mr.pinkbread ty for this knowledge and I started looking into it and found a quote from time magazine from the managing director of the last company who discontinued it and he said “we might have a few odd limbs lying around somewhere, but not enough to make any paint” (1964 Time)…….. I am now even more disgusted with humanity than I already was, and I was already pissed about the people eating them and I’m just astonished that crushing dead peoples bodies for paint was seen as legal as of 1964, that’s less than 50 years ago
As someone who is getting a masters in museum studies, you've done a great job of discussing the provenance issue. Your understanding of the laws are actually very accurate (there's some particulars but not necessary for understanding the situation). Thank you for talking about this!
Also studying museum studies (called historical methods but it's for history majors who wanna work in museums or with historical items) and yeah it's pretty good for some who won't have learned it
@@basementdwellercosplay shout out to the museum studies gang! I completed my MLitt in Museum studies last year before moving on to my art history PhD. This entire situation with Demi is all insane to me
So glad I found more museum people in the comments. Finished up my bachelors and currently going for my masters in museum studies rn and I can’t count the number of times we had debates over the ethics of museums existing period (much less “encyclopedic museums” like the British Museum and the Louvre). I really really really hope Demi doesn’t intentionally (or unintentionally) start a trend of people buying artifacts. It’s not illegal, but it sure as hell isn’t ethical (in my opinion), even if the provenance is spotless. If you’re feelings on museums are that they serve to protect and interpret history for the community, then please leave it to the professionals. If your feelings are that they should be abolished and all artifacts repatriated, I think there’s room for a constructive discussion. And if you feel like you fall in the middle and feel it’s a case-by-case basis, let’s grab a coffee and have a chat. In any case, your video is super approachable to someone who may not have much knowledge on the subject and I can tell you really did your research, well done. I’m only wishing this happened last year so I could have brought it up in class, I would’ve loved everyone’s opinions. I’m sending this to them
This is the same reason I do not shop at Hobby Lobby. The owners of Hobby Lobby bought and hid ancient artifacts for a Bible museum. This is true and you can search it. It makes me so angry. I am a historian and history professor and it makes me angry when people but and bring artifacts that belong to other countries into the United States.
If someone really wants something inspired by an ancient society, you could buy normal products that aren’t trying to be archeological finds. You like the little statues found in egyptian tombs? Someone probably has made a vase or something inspired by it. You don’t need “the real thing” or what you think is the real thing
or a 3d scanned replica. those are quite lovely, can be sold with brochure explaining their context and promote the culture instead of harming it. because sometimes you might want something inspired and sometimes you might want a representation of actual history. one doesn't have to own the original to appreciate a replica. much like I don't have to own original paintings to appreciate prints of them hanging on my walls. you know?
There are also replicas and recreations of artifacts, a person can have literally a brand new artifact that looks exactly like an original without the risks involved in owning an original artifact.
Or you can just buy from Egyptian artists- there are people in most cultures that still make the exact same items with nearly the same techniques as these "artifacts" and IMO, it would be SO much cooler to buy from someone who has been studying and preserving the art of their ancestors. win-win of NOT potentially destroying culture, AND you are supporting a creator who cares deeply about their craft.
Ethical high ground aside, another advantage to buying a replica made by craftsman today could be that you don't have to worry your fancy replica will have age-related damage (chipped areas, paint or enamel loss, missing stones, etc.) that might compromise it's overall structural integrity. By buying a beautiful replica rather than trying to buy a potentially limited, fragile artifact, you can be happy that you 1) supported a living, breathing artist's livelihood rather than potentially buying something that should rather be safely in a museum, and 2) now have an item that isn't likely to potentially crumble into expensive dust if you so much as breathe in it's general direction. It's a win-win all around!
Why does Demi KEEP doing crazier and crazier stuff?! And then putting it out there to show people in this masochistic cycle? Just- why. It's just not healthy. I went from being one of their biggest fans to absolutely done within the span of 2 years.
Because poor person fried their brain with fame and poor mental health i feel bad for her but its like a bad car crash its awful but you keep watching anyway
Their brush with death probably messed them up so much that focusing on themselves probably triggers mental breakdowns. Which is sad. They need professional help. So much for saying they weren’t going to change in the La La Land machine. They need more help than they realize. I truly don’t believe figuring out their pronouns, verbally assaulting a fro-yo shop on the internet, having a show about aliens, and buying fake artifacts helps them in any way whatsoever. Whoever their friends are aren’t real friends. Real friends know when to tell them the truth.
@@InHerLittleWay I mean, they literally have brain damage from the OD - officially physical as blindness/ blind spots in vision but it's not certain if they can't also have mental damage that wasn't diagnosed yet. I've seen what heavy use can do to people, let alone ODing to the point one needs to be hospitalized. Paired with nearly death and everything else traumatic that happened during their life since childhood and you have this effect. Ofc it's just speculating, but if it's certain the brain was damaged, question only is how much
i'm an archaeology student, and i honestly gotta admit that private collections sounds egoistic to me, it's like, look how much money i have!! so many artefacts would rather benefit from being in a museum, where people could see them. not that all museums have obtained artifacts the right way *cough british musum cough*, but i would still say that it's the lesser of two evils if we first are to remove things!
I said pretty much the same thing in another comment thread on this video, it pisses me enough when rich people have private collections of any prolific/famous art and paintings from THIS century, let alone artefacts that are ancient cultures' . It blows my mind how dumb Demi can be
Ditto for Paleontology, vaguely knew a guy who had a collection of fossils from Mongolia and his own country, some which might have been one of a kind. (Hard to tell when you cant get legitimate professionals to look at them.) Here's hoping they were expensive forgeries, but I fear that they might instead be lost data because someone had some money and wanted to show off.
@@indigophoenix12 THIS. I follow a few fossil hunting accounts on ig that find some amazing stuff, but are mistrustful of academics and all I can think about is the data lost of private collections.
As someone from SEA I just need the British museum to return OUR artifacts that they stole. We want them in our museums they are our culture. its unfair that they stole everything from us and display in their museums or are owned by their royal family. This is just odd. Why can't these people just buy copies knowing they are copies.
I'm not saying it's 100% right, but one of the reasons these artifacts stay in british museums is because a lot of the countries they stole from are war torn and just not safe places for these extremely important pieces of history. You could definitley make the argument that the reason these countries are war torn in the first place is because of colonialism, and you'd usually be correct, however it doesn't negate the fact that these artificats need to be kept in a secure location and a lot of these countries just aren't secure.
@@alexbush714 Yeah but you can also ask yourself who is profiting from them right now? Who is charging entry fees for people to see these stolen pieces of history? Where is that money going?
@@alexbush714 if we REALLY cared about that then we wouldn’t be bombing the countries with that heritage and architecture. Unless we plan on transporting entire buildings to the British museum.
Anytime I see this it reminds me of back in the Victorian Era when wealthy people would buy and sometimes eat mummies. Also as an indigenous woman I personally find it very gross to take other people's historical and cultural items. Not a fan of people having more money than sense in cases like this. The certificate reminds me of the papers that come when you buy a build a bear 🤭
I think they genuinely think it’s like getting a build a bear… I’m African and every time I see things like this I just can’t seem to understand why white people feel the need to own cultural pieces that don’t concern them. It’s weird. Watching Demi do a haul of these artifacts genuinely triggered my fight or flight. 😪
@@sakiva I agree with you. It's nothing to do with their history but they want to colonize the items. It's not a good look. It's sad that they view such important things like expensive party favors
another indigenous lady here, people always use our culture as halloween costumes and or take our history and culture. it makes me so upset and i wish we could do something about it
i literally just don’t understand the desire to own antiquities from a culture you have no connection to? like i was super interested in ancient egypt when i was younger & i would’ve found it so cool to be able to see/interact with egyptian antiquities irl, but even then i knew that i had no claim over them just bc i liked them. it’s a very imperialist mindset & it’s wild to me, like that’s a piece of human history & it’s incredibly likely that there are descendants of the people who originally made/owned those items who would be thrilled to be connected to them so why would u want to rob them of that?
And the culture they originate from would also be able to contextualize them and create extremely interesting exhibits using lots of their own artifacts. The passion, respect, and love that the culture could show through the exhibition of their history is unbeatable, the meaning would be more real and true to form.
Yeah, and if you are really interested in a culture you can buy decor or books or general stuff that isn't a literal artefact of great importance to said culture?
@@emilyfletcher7124 exactly, like buying a replica isn't a bad thing and especially if museums sold replicas online to raise funds from a global audience, it could help museums operate in areas with smaller tourism industries
I work at a small public museum in the US and there's a few nearby sites that we don't name on our public-facing object labels because we're concerned about people going to dig there and looting objects.
Pretty common, in a certain section of florida, there are a couple of sites off hiking trails that are simply not mentioned by anyone who knows and cares.
Hi Amanda, as an Egyptian living here in Cairo I'd like to add that this is a big topic of conversation we have over here. From my perspective the desire to own ancient Egyptian artifacts is just a form of modern day colonialism. You have no right to steal/buy items not from your culture. That's only a small version of of what many countries have stolen from Egypt over the years. Are every major European city has its own obelisk. And the US has several giant parts of temples, and no one bats an eye
You're wrong. It doesn't matter if you're not from that culture. You shouldn't own artifacts period. They don't belong to someone's private collection because they are cultural heritage and should be appreciated by anyone. That's why I think they should be reserved to a museum. Because most people anyway don't care about their history; they simply aren't interested. But maybe, someone from another country actually studying that stuff might be more interested and actually know more about it than said people. But it's just not fair that anyone could be able to buy historical artifacts.
i mean it definitely seems to me like the ones demi bought were fake but yeah they should absolutely NOT be promoting any of this nonsense. i get being really into ancient history like i read percy jackson i was obsessed with ancient greece for like 2 years but i think it's really easy to stick to the just doing a lot of research and watching a lot of documentaries and going to museums. like museums definitely have their own set of issues but this is just adding a bunch of new issues and solving 0 of the ones that already exist
If I had the money to do stuff like this I'd buy so much ceramic art from small artists... you could commission different artists to do murals on every wall of every room of your house...
I always wanted a room with floor tiles of a scene from the cretaceuous, and a series of four chinese seasonal paintings where each season also represented a different era of the mesozoic (the last would be winter and there would be birds and a few of the surviving reptiles near the bottom)
This! I already try to support “small” artists as much as I can, it’d be so cool to commission some to make all the things and do all the designs like I was a wealthy patron of the arts from days gone by😅😁☺️ I had a prof who was slowly replacing all her dish ware with ceramics she made herself and it was so cool!
You're right that I'm not in a place to buy antiquities, but even if I could, what would I do with it? I like antiques but we're really tapping out at 1890 here there isn't a problem owning Victorian stuff there is a problem in buying cultures. Also buying something that was supposed to be in a tomb sounds like a good way to get cursed and have you deserve it.
There's a podcast Art Fraud (correction: Art Bust - I got confused by the 2 podcasts' names 😅) that did an episode on the "death objects". The long and the short is that for many cultures having their death practices paraded by the Western museums as "weird" & "just another cultural artifact" is basically insensitive to their beliefs and cultures. The "curse" thing is a racist 20th/19th century yellow press invention & the overt exoticization of Egyptian beliefs & culture.
@@notapplicable6985 it was a very rare occurrence (almost never found @ archeologists) take for instance the most famous discovery (King Tut), the myth was created after people died from unrelated diseases/reasons afterwards. People in the West only view Egypt as a land of curses & booby traps (therefore reducing them to an exotic Other). Grave robbing happend as soon as the pharaoh were laid to rest. If people knew that there were tombs full of jewels, they took it. Mummies were eaten by Europeans as medicine. So the idea of booby traps & curses is a Hollywood invention that people think is a real thing. Curses would've probably been a warning that you won't enjoy an afterlife. "Booby traps" were also not a thing, in the pyramids (older kingdom) they built extensive passage ways to confuse robbers, but it never worked.
as someone from the west asia/north african region i think it's very unethical for anyone except us to own our artifacts tbh. it's playing into colonization, taking our history from us and forcing us to pay money to even see it. even white people coming to dig up our history is questionable territory for me because they rarely treat us with any respect. i love your compassion on these topics
I just wanna really emphasize your point that you CAN'T just drop something off at a museum that you think should be there. Legitimate institutions can not legally go through the process to make an acquisition of an item when there isn't a formal, documented transfer of ownership to the institution. I've been interning at an anthropology museum and we always get people trying to drop things off at the front desks or receiving dock, and people also just literally leave stuff at the front doors at night when the museum is closed. When this happens the museum can't legally accept the donation and put it in collections. We are a teaching institution so most of the teaching collection is made up of these types of objects since the museum can't legally add them to the collections, which means potentially it's just going to be destroyed for conservation students to repair. If collections staff think it might be of significant cultural value they just kind of stay in collections purgatory though because the museum can't actually legally do anything with it.
During my internship a curator gave me a basket that was left at the museum in this way, and while I appreciate it because it's from my culture, and can tell it's a more recent basket done for the tourist market in the 20th century and therefore probably sold legally from the artist themselves.....it still just feels ODD.
this has been my experience, too! while I worked at the (very large) museum in my city, we'd have people calling in at least once a week to offer us stuff they simply had in their home. 99% of time we refused just taking random items from strangers. provenance is a big deal. considering my museum only displays probably a fifth of the items they actually have (overwhelming majority is kept in storage for protection), the idea that a legitimate "museum" would have "surplus" that they can just..... GIVE out to people is hilarious to me
@@kkuudandere FR 😭 I checked their website too and they advertise that they're like a market that museums regularly buy from and trust me almost no museums are looking to buy authentic antiquities just cuz, let alone dubious fakes. My museum did a big overhaul/renewal in 2010 and despite being a small-ish museum(I think were around 7k sq with a large portion being taken up by oversize objects like totem poles) and have I think at least 20k objects in visible storage for the public and its STILL mostly in the back and despite getting a shit ton of new storage in 2010 were already running out of space bc of the overwhelming amount of donations. One of their recent acquisitions had like, 3000 goat horn spoons in a single lot 😭. The movement to push for repatriation is the right one but also overwhelming at times lol.
This is the first I've heard about Demi Lovato buying antiquities but I had heard about a different example of some biblical literalists (I think they had some connection to Hobby Lobby or something) building a bible museum and buying looted artifacts.
As others have pointed out, that would be the owner of Hobby Lobby himself. He built a museum, filled with ‘biblical artifacts’ & particularly focused on Dead Sea scrolls, only for most of them to be fakes or looted. Wild stuff tbh
@@amelia3146 yeah it's crazy lol, i read a few articles when I heard about it and turns out the owners of hobby lobby may have accidentally funded ISIS by buying smuggled and looted artifacts from 'sellers' that were tied to them 😬 luckily the stuff was returned to the nation, but big yikes
*Few months back:* Demi Lovato makes a big deal out of sugar free froyo "because it's fatphobic" + "aliens is offensive so now I say ET" *Now:* pulls sh!t like colonialist comportment 101 on their IG story. Feels like a Buzzfeed skit: "what if Indiana Jones had Instagram" 🤷🏻♀️🤷🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️ FYI: UNESCO is an acronym pronounced as a single word, like _U • ness (=Loch Ness) • co_
There was this mummy sarcophagus (with a real mummy in it) supposedly belonging to a Persian Princess that was eventually proved to be false, and the body it contained has been too far mangled to positively identify her or the cause of death. Theres also some question about whether she was murdered by the criminal forgers. Illegal artifacts have undoubtedly killed people, and mutilated remains of the underprivileged or forgotten. (Edit: she was apparently hit by a car.)
There was a mummy put on Dispaly in Mammoth Cave Kentucky which was said to be a young girl who crawled into the cave and died after a carriage accident. Turned out it was a 5,000 year old indigenous boy. People have a hard time keeping their mummy stories straight.
Its a bit hypocritical that they're the one collecting this stuff seeing how they're always running their mouth about civil rights and stuff like that.
I'm doing an art history masters in Provenance rn and it's so interesting to hear someone outside of the sector discussing this!! You handled it really well and discussed all the major ethics discussion as well. Maybe there's an Art Crime professorship in you yet ;)
I am an Egyptologist, so I a subject matter expert in this field. Private ownership of Egyptian antiquities is a thing. As long those antiquities were legally exported from Egypt prior to the UN World Heritage Convention of 1972, it can be legal to own said antiquities. But private ownership is controversial in some circles. And some have argued that private ownership has encouraged looting and the production of forgeries. There are lot of legitimate antiquities that are on the market and can be purchased from auction houses. But there is nothing wrong with buying a copy knowing it is copy, and the Egyptian Ministry of Tourism and Antiquities is preparing to offer high quality copies for private purchase. I would encourage Demi to talk to real Egyptologists and learn about what she's interest in. Most of us are quite approachable. 😄
I never felt the need to acquire ancient antiquities, but I have heard about cuneiform practice on clay. Making cuneiform gingerbread would probably be really fun!
I got my degree in History, and spent at least a day or two in every ancient history class I took talking about the ethics of artifact collecting. There are some horrendous examples, like the Athenian Marbles being kept in the British Museum for "safety reasons" despite Athens building an entire museum specifically to safely house them. But then theres good examples, like bordering nations in war-torn countries taking artifacts away to be safe from bombs and other hazards of war. However, one person having artifacts has always struck me as immoral. That being said, these are probably fake. And if they're not, they were likely deemed so historically insignificant that they were sold to highest bidder.
I don't study ancient societies(I study the rococo era) but the idea that Demi would just casually buy what they believed was a real ancient items is absolutely wild like how is that allowed
As an Anthropology student (Archaeology is a sect hello my artifact loving brethren how are you) this whole situation is ✨vomit inducing.✨ It's like the whole thing with people keeping Clovis Points or owning valuable sites. Can't wait to show this to my Arch prof though to hear him shriek in terror at least lmao.
Sometimes the vomit is induced from within the house. My dad helped excavate an early archeology site with his proffessor, a burial with a woman who had a ceramonial point in her sternum. However that archeologist had a fued with the university, and when they fired him, she, and all of the paperwork about her dissapeared. (this might have been because the university museum was looking to return most of their collection- dad doesnt know, it was thirty years past his graduation when someone called him to ask if he had any information about what happened her. The best he had was a copy of the old paper, which the student calling him already had.
re: the Peter Campbell tweet, I’ve heard it pronounced as “dash” or “die-esh.” It’s just another term for ISIS, one that is much more popular in the UK than the States. I don’t know shit about archaeology , but I’ve heard that ISIS does a lot of illegal artifact trafficking. One of their big clients was the Bible museum run by the Hobby Lobby people
"Daesh" (the spelling I've seen most often) is the Arabic term for ISIS. The way it was explained to me, it's like how in Futurama the Democratic Order Of Planets has the less-than-regal sounding acronym "doop." It was a way for Arabic-speakers to disparage the movement that had the nerve to call itself "THE Islamic State," and got adopted by a number of English speakers as well.
11:31 My brain created a whole narrative of “dinosaur schools” being the correct term for a complete skeleton of a dinosaur until I realized it was supposed to say skulls
I was in an oddities shop the other day and they had a German helmet on sale. It was advertised of still having the dead nazi's blood in it after a fatal blow from a soviet. Didn't sit well with me. Who would want to own that? Who could feel right with that in their homes?
I'm an archaeologist who was litterally talking about the illegal traffiking of artifacts by rich people in America today I have never felt so called out by notification in my life girl I clicked SO FAST
My villain origin story is thinking Killmonger was right but went the wrong way about it. Definitely shouldn't have killed those people in the museum, but made some valid fucking points.
At least Demi probably did this out of stupidity. It's the Hobby Lobby level of intentional theft that is really concerning. But what can we expect from Hobby Lobby?
Something you should look into I just found out about is Faithful Minis and Peabody the horse. This clip went viral on tiktok and instagram of a miniature horse that was so small that it was about the same size as the family's french bulldog. But people noticed that he didn't look healthy and his cage looked extremely dirty, with piles of soiled pee pads. It turns out that Peabody was not only a miniature horse, but also had dwarfism. It's unclear whether he was specifically bred for dwarfism (to get yet smaller horses), or if it was the result of inbreeding. Either way, it left him with a lot of health problems. He was born deaf, with two bad legs, and a messed up jaw that prevented him from eating. He died after only four months (allegedly) from liver failure. The owners (Faithful Minis) claim they bought him at 3 days old. From where is not specified. Why they bought him, when they themselves are miniature horse breeders, is also not clear. It's possible, since he's the smallest recorded miniature horse, that they were intending to use him to breed minis with dwarfism. This is all I know. But it's really sad because the owners were being invited to do all this press, like be on the Kelly Clarkson show, when it seems like they're really shady backyard breeders, that don't care at all about the health of the animals they breed, as long as they look cute for four months so they can make a sale.
Oh my god it should be illegal. I don’t even think teacup dogs or cats with dwarfism should be bred. The dogs always have health problems and their bones break very easily. I can’t imagine how many pups were killed that didn’t turn out right. Cats with legs so short some tummies hit the ground can’t jump like a regular cat and that’s one of their joys! To be on top of things looking down watching everything! Of course they look cute but genetically messing with animals should be illegal when it is strictly for our enjoyment and makes like tougher for them.
I totally agree that artifacts should stay where they are but even if Demi didn't want to visit Egypt (where they have incredible museums and tours) it is very well known that the British museum, the Museum of Fine Arts in Boston, the Met, and many others already have extensive collections of Egyptian art and artifacts. I'm sure someone as rich as them could afford a high quality, ethically made replica or print of an artifact if seeing thousands of them in museums isn't enough. "Egyptology" was very popular throughout history and until the 1920s there was little to no standard for recording the archeological process or for the security of dig sites. It's basic knowledge that European and American archeologists just took whatever during the day and locals looted the sites at night. Nowadays those artifacts are mostly in museums and any documented or newly uncovered artifacts are *very* strictly regulated. Looting definitely still happens but it's much easier for someone to create new fake artifacts than risk the repercussions of looting a dig site or museum. The name "museum surplus" alone tells you how little Demi understands the topic because museums literally collect more than is possible to display due to ongoing preservation, changing exhibits, etc lol
you can also buy cool enough replicas from Egypt. even if you arent fooled by such proffessional websites as Museum Surplus, modern and ethical replicas still can be pretty cool.
I am by no means a historian, art crime professor, or even a person with expertise in my own job field, but as someone who makes Props and is working on a show that requires a ton of distressing, Lovato's stuff looks distressed in a similar way to how I did it (also if you are distressing something lowkey a belt sander doesn't seem like the way to go in my experience)
I have a weirdly close perspective on this. I sell high end designer mid century and Danish modern furniture from the 50s-70s (based in NYC) and because of this I have a close relationship with a lot of affluent auction houses, antique dealers, resellers etc. You run into these ill-gotten antiquities waaayyy more often than you’d think. I steer clear of any of that as I am a huge proponent of making sure historical objects stay in their country of origin (if possible) and are not sold for profit. You wouldn’t believe some of the stuff that comes up in auction houses (who are suppose to vet items and make sure they weren’t trafficked/fakes/come from war torn areas were looting is common). It’s often considered that items sold at trusted auction houses get a bolstered reputation and validate some of the authenticity of the object seemly by being sold there. These places are willing to stake their highly coveted reputations on these questionable antiquities because there absolutely is a market of private individuals ready and willing to purchase. Everything from Egyptian artifacts to human remains to slave trade items to dinosaurs bones. It’s absolutely sickening but it’s the worst kept secret of the affluent that these pieces are not that hard to obtain. If Demi had a money manager, knowledge assistant, art procurer or simply knew the actual market better/asked around, this is where they would have gone. It’s the same with high end antique stores that seem to think just because a piece is old that it somehow erases any human suffering (old or new) attached to that item. I’ve seen some truly bizarre objects in antique stores in the US but European antique stores take the cake on ethical issues. At the end of the day, the practice of selling and coveting these antiquities, by western audiences, from a culture and place you were not a part of is simply another form of colonialism and imperialism.
"I'm just a chick on the internet with a camera" is definitely an understatement girl! Love your videos ❤ found you cause of the Jon's bones situation and somehow found the video very entertaining and funny, given the subject matter. I honestly had different views on ownership of these types of things, and even the Jon's bones situation, until listening to you explain how this is maybe not the respectful nor ethical. Keep up the hard work, it shows in your videos. ❤
Just putting it out there that I would love to see a video along the lines of you baking gingerbread (or dog friendly) cuneiform tablets while interviewing a professor of art crimes.
How to make cuneiform gingerbread cookies: 1. Learn Ugaritic cuneiform, since it is mostly alphabetic and is easier than Akkadian or Hittite cuneiform. 2. Carve a triangular stylus out of a chopstick. You might want to practice your cuneiform technique on a piece of modelling clay. 3. Whip up a batch of gingerbread. Make sure it's the eating kind of gingerbread, not the gingerbread house kind of gingerbread, otherwise you will break people's teeth. 4. Form your cookies into small loaf-like squares. 5. Write your cuneiform message on each cookie and bake in an oven until done.
😭😭😭 they could have just commissioned an artist (like a sculptor) for a good replica without worrying about the possibility of stolen goods and proudly admit the fact. They could get museum souvenirs, plenty of them sell items like prints or goods with the image on it without it being tacky. Or better yet you want authentic goods then support the community its from, like visiting indigenous museums & shops or the equivalent of it. Support the culture, not steal it.
I find a good way to not switch up "provenance" with "providence" is to really lean into the Frenchness of the word. "Prah-vaughn-AHNCE". It's easy to mix them up but I've found that's a good trick to get past it, at least for me.
I definitely do not have Demi Lovato money but once again that has saved me from being this dumb with money. I literally just can't afford to be this dumb with money. I'm not good at Photoshop but even I could forge better paperwork than that. Not even getting into the issue with buying the artefacts of another culture and keeping it to yourself. At the very least loan it to someone who will put it on public display or keeps it safe and can do research with it. That happened in my city with a bunch of very expensive old books a private person bought them and then gave them for free as a permanent loan to the university library so people can look at them and learn how to conserve them too because my local university offers that course as well. Pretty sure they've been at the library for two decades or longer now and apparently the private owner has put it in writing that once they pass it permanently goes to the library.
Oh my god they’re also on Mercari and depop! I was introduced to the rabbit hole from the MBMBAM podcast, and it’s so funny to see how people try to authenticate haunted dolls
Those, at least dont rob a culture of part of their history so some rich douche can swing around their 'importance.' Its up to you to decide if buying a haunted doll is believable ethical :)
I have family in the Chinese antiques market, and oh boy let me say that it’s something all right. Interesting to see how pieces of history are treated around the world by different types of people.
@@indigophoenix12 for professionals? Very, though it takes a long time even with so much high tech machinery to detect between reals and fakes. The whole tomb raiding business and the fact that China keeps losing antiques to contractors makes antiques highly sought, so everyone in the business of legally trading them have verification step after verification step.
I haven't started the video but from first min I can tell I'll hate Demi even more. Egypt & it's history was and are still threatened today by looting & "archeologists" (Western grave robbers) picking and choosing the cultural & religious artifacts that they'll take to America, UK, EU etc. It actually makes me sick. There's museums in America that's willing to show dubious artifacts (possibly stolen before UN convention came in place) & they're UNWILLING to work with the respective African countries to possibly give their history back. (Obvs England & EU etc also) I'm a big history nerd & always had a soft spot for Egyptian history (being from Africa myself, it felt more "real" than Ancient Rome or Ancient Greece), & I would love to view their historical artifacts IN EGYPT. Hoarding it in another continent really leave a bitter taste in my mouth, because who's suppose to be the audience? White Europeans/Americans? To other and objectify another culture & their history? So "keeping it in museums" is not the answer. If the museums is in Egypt or Africa, yes, because it's THEIR history. And having this artifacts be owned by rich people - definitely no. They're the reason you see artifacts in museums -they loan it to them (and are unwilling to give it back to the countries of origin). So private individuals making choices about historical artifacts and who has access to it or not, also screams white saviourism & Western dominance to me. Those who own history can change it. The Hobby Lobby people bought illegal documents from IS*S, but one of the documents were a long lost fragment of Sappho, that are lost to academia and further research. A lot of "lost pieces" are also documents that were hoarded by rich families & therefore academics can't access it.
But when another museum buys and showcases them, that isn't theft? I'm confused about when it's theft, and when it's ok. Probably depends on whether the "right people" are profiting.
@@chance2413 still theft and looting. The key aspect would be to revise provenance and date of arrival to the collection to figure out how and where they were taken from. Additionally, museum exhibitions are compelled to work on the future preservation of the artifact or object, which is not a guarantee either. The problem with Hobby Lobby is that not only did they engage in contemporary massive illegal purchasing, their illegal activities support groups that are terrorizing and destroying cultural heritage in the Middle East without enough sanctions from the US government who is supposed to oversee their activities. However, let me really emphasize that no museum collection has a clean, legally acquired record of ownership, unless it’s a site museum with confirmed collaborative practices and community involvement (which are extremely rare)
@@ameliatorres6162 Thank you, thank you, thank you for your last comment about how no museum is squeaky clean. The amount of shit I’ve gotten from people about working in places with stolen artifacts like I did it myself when nobody was looking is insane. Museums originated out of “cabinets of curiosities” in the homes of wealthy nobles and were filled with random objects they gathered on travels. There was no paperwork, no trail of information, and nobody really keeping track of where things came from over the generations. We can’t change the past of how objects ended up where they did. The only thing we can do now is put protocols in place to protect museums from taking in objects of ill background. Does that still happen? Yes, of course, hobby lobby was correctly brought up. It’s the fact that this happened in modern day (and to the degree that it did) that was heinous of them
I feel like its kind of different bc Hobby Lobby bought them from ISIS which violates US sanctions. Not saying that what Demi Lovato did is good or anything, but people seem to gloss over details and apply a one sized fits all mindset about any story thats remotely similar. Like, the knowing cooperation with terrorists was the big thing. Not necessarily a botched providence
Im an undergrad in anthropology, specifically with a concentration in archeology and this topic gives me oh so may thoughts. The process of rich people buying cultural artifacts for personal collections is by no means a new idea and is generally how the practice of archeology started, as rich white men gatherered cabinets of curiosities full of stolen or fake artifacts and created a market for them and created public interest by showing them to the public.
There is always someone who is dumb with spending money, therefore there is always someone else who wants to separate that fool from their money by any means.
hey, you may never read this but i’ve been having a really hard time recently, and your content has been a good comfort during this rough patch. just got out of a friendship that in hindsight was very emotionally abusive but for a long while it was extremely difficult to let go of because they were my only friend…. looking back it was because they kept arguing with all of my other friends even starting fights just to call them names. but now that i’m away from them and on my own, i find a huge comfort and company in your videos that i didn’t feel in calls with them. just thank you for creating the content that you do. the casual nature and lighthearted tone is contagious and has really lifted my mood. thanks :)
I have my masters in museum studies and am currently getting my PhD in art history and I can say this: if buying something like this seems too good to be true, it. A lot of ancient artifacts were looted/stolen/lost during the Arab spring and if what Demi us purchased isn’t a part of that, it it is almost certainly a fake. When it comes to the issues regarding provenance and the theft and resale of these items, think about this: the Metropolitan Museum of Art, the literally MET, one of the most prestigious and well respected art museums in the world bought a golden sarcophagus. They made it a center piece of a new display room and spent millions. Then they found out that it was stolen during the Arab spring and sold on the black market and eventually sold to the met with fake provenance. They wound up having to return it to Egypt and were just out millions of dollars. If someone could trick the met, they could definitely trick Demi Lovato, a hobbyist who apparently can’t even differentiate ancient Assyrian artifacts from ancient Egyptian ones (even though it’s LITERALLY a cuneiform tablet and not one in any form of hieroglyphic text or even heiratic or Greek….) Here’s the thing, I collect antiques and artifacts myself, particularly ones related to my field of study. I research medieval depictions of Saint Catherine of Alexandria and own prints of works of her but also things like 18th century embroideries of her and even a 17th century rock crystal reliquary pendant. So I very much understand the impulse and the desire to purchase these kinds of items. There is a powerful feeling of connection that comes with owning artifacts like this yourself and being able to touch, hold, or even wear them. To me at least, something about that feels very precious. The difference is that I always do my homework on these objects so that I am not getting screwed or screwing someone else AND so that I give these pieces the proper respect, care, and thoughtfulness that they deserve.
There's a museum in Greece where the displays have spaces for the pieces in the British museum. Hobby Lobby was involved with illegal artifact trade that almost definitely funded a terrorist group but definitely destroyed a cultural site that would have been important for archaeology
Art history student here. We're talking about the fake/stolen artifacts issue a lot and I actually just had a Due-Diligence course. It's such a huge discussion, but you explained everything really well.
All the creators are talking about how nfts are fungible because online scarity isn't real while Amanda is explaining why forgeries mean collectible scarity and manufactured scarity aren't real either. Amanda said how many layers deep are you? lol
There are some fantastic museum replicas you can buy - just as beautiful as the originals, but much more affordable and you don't have to worry about the ethical concerns. I bought some great ones from the Roemisch Germanisches museum when I visited Cologne in Germany years ago. I have a beautiful necklace based on one found in a riverbank, and I love it so much. I'm not sure that I'd feel ok with buying genuine artifacts, particularly from the likes of Egypt considering most of them are funerary decorations.
Loved the video! I just graduated with a masters in Library and Information Science which is essentially archival work. Everything you said was accurate. You'd be surprised how many fakes are floating around! If you want an absolutely wild rabbit hole you should look up the family who owns hobby lobby. They're notorious for smuggling artifacts into the US and purchasing dubious items for their museum of the bible. I did a research paper on them and it was WILD.
While opening UA-cam, I thought “oh I’ll continue watching the videos I was watching yesterday” and then saw your and had to watch this first, hearing your intro, I was like “omg same” so now I gotta stick around for the end!! I was a longtime fan of Demi and the last big thing I remember was the confidence uprising. No clue what’s been going on the past couple years so anything Demi, I have to watch to be up-to-date.
As a student of archaeology and hopefully a future archaeologist with a PhD, this is SO INFURIATING! The literal FIRST thing we we're taught is: This is not Indiana Jones type deal, if you came here inspired by him, rethink your choice of studying in this field. Archaeology IS NOT grave robbing. It was in the past, yes (think Wooley and the Royal Tomb of Ur excavation, an utter disgrace), but times have changed. Archaeologists do not just come, dig up stuff, put it in bags and leave the site. They do it methodologically, carefully, and with no intention of destroying / making profit of the site or its artifacts. We look for historic value in things, not monetary value! To think that there are people who sell artifacts online with the caption "gotten ethically from sites" or "gotten legally"..... No. There is NOTHING legal about selling artifacts that were STOLEN from sites. NONE of these were gotten via archaeological excavations or investigations, trust me on that. No archaeologist in his right mind would do this, unlike these bastards whose actions throw dirt on the field of science that archaeology is. The artifacts were dug up illegally and gathered for sale. And especially from sites in Egypt or Middle East, since there is SO much yet to uncover and it is all well preserved in the dry climate. I am personally against anyone owning artifacts from sites, no matter how "legal" it might be. Copies, sure, but the real ones are reserved for museums in their countries of origin. To end off, thank you @Swell Entertainment for addressing this issue, as it is a big one.
a few weeks back there were reports of a few tv shows having their replicas stolen. like, the crown, which has replicas of the royal family's jewels and such, had a bunch of those things stolen. and the first thing that came to mind seeing those news was that people were gonna try and sell those and pretend they're the real deal
I mean, if you're talking the british crown, I root for the theives, turn about is fair play after all... unless the british museum wants to start returning things and the royal family is willing to invest in artifact repatriation and helping pay to preserve those objects in their rightful homes.
As a pastry chef who helped make an ancient Egyptian themed gingerbread scene for a local museum’s King Tut exhibit, I say yes to cuneiform tablet cookies! Let’s do it!!
@swell entertainment: as much as i'm not a fan of logan paul, the pokimon that he bought was 'sealed boxes' and he did have someone verify that they were authentic....as best as you can authenticate 'sealed' packages. as you may or may not know, 'sealed' collectables are worth much more than 'unsealed'. he didn't just spend all that money willy nilly.
@@gsesquire3441 and then on top of that, didn’t inform his fans he got his money back, UNTIL AFTER he got that Ad money; and of course his fans buying his merch to “reimburse” his “losses”. Even though he already got the refund. 🤦🏽♀️😂
It’s just funny how little research people do. If you have any kind of a platform, you have an obligation to use it for good. When I first saw this pop up on Twitter, I immediately thought about the ethical dilemma. The idea that the name “Museum Surplus” implies, that there are just extra artifacts we don’t need and are selling for a few hundred bucks, is absolutely absurd.
I haven’t been receiving notifications for your upload so I have a ton of videos to watch! Turns out I subscribed but didn’t turn on notifications! Thank you so much as always for bringing us quality contents, I love your channel so much!
The saddest thing to me is that these people could probably sell the fakes for the same amount if they just said they were artistic replicas or something like that. Like obviously some skill has to go in to creating fake artefacts and its like they are choosing to use that skill for evil
It kills me! They have enough money to buy ethically and they knew it was important because they made a big deal out of that Microsoft paint certificate.
As a Geology and Archaeology student this is very worrying especially if they are stolen. It’s also a very interesting time for her to post that as Project Pandora V is still gaining arrests for the illegal selling of artifacts worldwide. Once artifacts are taken from the site incorrectly it’s pretty much impossible to gain anything from them as they are stripped of all context. I do think they these ones are fake but I’m not an expert in this field of archaeology.
The idea of buying cultural objects stolen from a country just to prove my wealth (not even my passion or knowledge.. which doesn't make it right) purely disgusts me. I used to love Demi but nowadays I don't know who she is anymore
Demi Lovato: "calling aliens aliens is offensive."
Also Demi Lovato: "Let me buy these fake or stolen artifacts from a culture I have no connection to"
They said the word alien (like if you’re calling a human one which the govt does) is derogatory so they don’t use it & they’re not wrong.
Oh for sure, and I agree, they just also say that calling actual like, space aliens aliens is derogatory to the space aliens.
kenny williams no they were referring to extra terrestrials not immigrants because in regards to immigrants I agree completely but that’s not what they were talking about
@@kennywilliams8580 I agree that using this word with humans is derogatory, but she was speaking about extraterrestrial beings, not humans. The reason why the word is bad to use for immigrants is because the word is dehumanising because it is the word for "extraterrestrial creatures" and using it for human beings kind of means they are not seen as human by the person or institution using that word, but beings from other planets literally *are not humans* and therefore "alien" is the correct word for them.
Even if that's the case, you would maybe think "are these true artifacts? Should I have these?"
I find it kinda extremely terribly gross that rich people buy cultural artifacts to have as like dust collecting paper weights.
The only person I'm ok with haveing a massive private collection is Phil Collins bc his private collection is on loan (might be a permanent loan situation) to a real museum
A lot of it is common enough it's not sought out by museums. Stuff like ancient roman and greek coins are pretty cheap, depending on the specific coin and quality. A lot of it is common enough museums aren't interested, or museums already have similar items collecting dust in storage. It's a bit different for super rare pieces of course
Yeah I went to Glypoteket in Copenhagen and was really inspired and wanted to get some antique/renaissance statues for my apartment but like... you can just buy reproductions? Or commission statues/sculptures? Sure you won't have the knowledge that it's super duper old but if it's meaningful to you then it's meaningful to you.
It's using art as a financial investment that grosses me out the most. Like did they buy that painting/sculpture because they like looking at it or because they think it's going to increase in value?
Yeah, it feels kinda icky. Old coins and stuff is less gross because they are so common, but, as someone else pointed out here, just buy a reproduction if you like how it looks so much! If you're fascinated by the culture, visit the country (if you can), go to their museums, LEARN about them, don't just buy stuff
I am currently completing my PhD at the University of Pennsylvania in Near Eastern Archaeology, and this LITERALLY BOILS MY BLOOD. People outside of the discipline have no idea how much real damage this causes. I have excavated in Israel and Iraq, and have worked with collections from Egypt and Turkey as well. Here are the main points I wish people would understand about this topic:
1. Buying any artifacts, AT ALL, promotes looting of sites and the LITERAL DESTRUCTION OF HISTORY. Every site I have worked at in the Middle East has had to have LITERAL ARMED GUARDS to protect both the site and the archaeologists from looters. If we found great artifacts, we would have to stay on site until they were all excavated and safely taken out so they could be brought to locked storage, sometimes having to work 4-5 extra hours in a day just to make sure things would not be looted. Looters are dangerous, and are willing to hurt other people to get artifacts and sell them illegally.
2. Once an artifact is taken out of the site, MORE THAN HALF ITS HISTORIC VALUE IS GONE! Artifacts are only as meaningful as the context in which they were found. Archaeologists often care far more about excavation notes and documentation than we do about the object themselves. Without knowing the exact location, depth, soil type, depositional layer, surrounding artifacts, evidence of disturbance, etc etc, most of the value that object had for illuminating history IS COMPLETELY LOST.
3. The promotion of collecting artifacts actively harms the practice of scientific archaeology, work that is done to promote the truth of our human past. Even if not illegally looted, by collecting artifacts at all (as a private person or unaccredited institution) you are promoting illegal artifact looting and dealing, and the value of objects over actual historical information.
I literally have so much more I could say on this, but will leave it at this. Please like this comment so people will see it. @Swell Entertainment , Please pin this comment. I would also be happy to answer any questions you have about this topic from someone who works in the field of Near Eastern Archaeology and had seen first hand the repercussions of actions like these.
Aaaaaaamen.
As an archaeologist I totally agree! I hate the buying and selling of artifacts, it makes me physically ill sometimes when I see whats for sale and all the information that has been lost.
Everyone that watches this video, please note that archaeology has nothing to do with Indiana Jones/Looting and the sale of artifacts.
I hope they see this comment and reaches out to you if they have any questions!
Yes! I am by no means an archaeology expert but was an anthropology major and one of the first things we learned was that the value of artifacts is in what they can tell us about the humans of the past. The concept of archaeology has become grossly misconstrued by people outside the field, it’s about learning about human history, not being antique collectors. Everything about looting and buying and selling artifacts is dangerous and damaging.
Giving this a bump
Since you wanna make it a series, why not call it Low Expert-tations, like"the show where I'm not an expert, and you should lower your expectations"
Clever. I like.
Love it
I like it. I always thought it was cool that Anna Faris called her advice podcast 'Unqualified'. But you made up a word so yours is cooler
I approve ❤️❤️
Yes please
I do research before I buy Redd's artwork in Animal Crossing so it's weird that these people aren't doing research before they spend actual money
I do that too lol
LITERALLY hahaha ❤
💯
👏👏👏
OMG yes this 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻🙌🏻
We have such amazing museums here in Africa showing OUR history. There are issues such as the Timbuktu Records in Mali being threatened of being destroyed by terrorists - but many want them to be held temporarily in another African country because we do not trust the Europeans to give them back if they hold them.
That's a perfectly legitimate fear because Europeans countries would absolutely keep them.
@@ArcAngle1117 Or burn them, like it happened to a lot a mummies, apparently
@@icp7201 even worse a lot of them were eaten or used as medicine
Yeah trusting a western country to return the artefacts etc is … not advised
They wouldn't. So many artifacts in European museums are there because obviously the people from the countries those articles come from couldn't be able to take care of them, we need white people to protect them from ourselves 🙏
I feel like there’s so much more value in collecting goods from around the world made by people who are still alive. I have a beautifully crafted camel wallet from Tunisia and the money from my purchase benefitted Tunisian craftsman who were severely impacted by covid. You can have beautiful, unusual things without destroying history.
I think so, too! unfortunately I also think too many people are "interested in culture" only when it comes to obsessing over the static, romanticized past. they'd rather focus on stolen/fake artifacts than support living, breathing, dynamic aspects of culture 😒
@@kkuudandere yeah people love ancient Egypt but couldn’t care less about anything they’ve done in the past thousand years. People also like rare/difficult to obtain things as status symbols which is gross
Buying directly from craftspeople is definitely a better thing to do!
And it's good to support people directly, but just speaking as someone who's indigenous and has seen it first hand the tourist market can also "destroy history" sometimes.
When it's peoples livlihoods on the line, indigenous people can and will change what their making to appeal to what tourists want to buy, even if it means completely changing our practices to a different cultures that's ironically perceived as more "authentic".
One example from my culture is cowichan sweaters. They weren't actually a part of coast salish culture pre-colonially and are inspired by shetland/other european knits but with our own unique style. The demand for these items played into the demise of our blanket weaving practices because the sweaters were more profitable in a time where we were prohibited from other sources of work for income.
BUT also in the 60s/70's a tourist interest helped sustain a salish weaving revival with the salish weavers guild.
So it can definitely go both ways!
Sorry for the long-winded response!!! Also I really don't mean to shame anyone for supporting tourist markets as it's not a black and white issue! I really do think in general it's a positive thing, I just felt like there needed to be some nuance explored in the idea that craft tourist markets(even when they're goods made from the community of origin) can't be capable of degrading historical practices.
@@ectoplastiic totally agree and was going to mention this, but your perspective was definitely appreciated as someone who watched it happen to your own culture. But yes tourism can def have both a negative and positive impactive on especially indigenous but also poc population.
Little bit of a tangent, but def adjacent, I live in metrodetroit so I’ve watched how detroit and surrounding cities have gained and lost funding, and especially right now, are being pushed to be heavily gentrified. And what ends up happening is the local, small, bipoc owned business are relying on the same white middle class to keep them afloat that is currently pushing them out of their long-time homes, and it’s really fucking sad. Oh the joys of the intricacies of systematic racism.
This seems 100% on-brand for Demi Lovato. I took an art history class in college and am a HUGE fan of the show “Antiques Roadshow” and if you watch it just a few times, you understand how important provenance is for almost anything - let alone ancient artifacts and incredibly immoral items. Demi deserves all backlash coming, regardless of if these antiquities are real or not. How dumb.
antiques roadshow slaps
If these are real Egyptian artifacts, she’s gonna get some backlash alright…and I’m not talking about from the internet…
Can we talk about the fact the reason we don’t have many mummies (considering how many were excavated) because the Victorians would crush them up into powder and eat them because they thought they had healing properties. They had mummy parties and everything where they’d buy a mummy to do this and it’s absolutely horrific. We can thank my art history professor for bringing that to my class’s attention
They also made paint from mummies called mummy brown or egyptian brown. It was discontinued in 1964 because they ran out of mummies to grind up
@@mr.pinkbread ty for this knowledge and I started looking into it and found a quote from time magazine from the managing director of the last company who discontinued it and he said “we might have a few odd limbs lying around somewhere, but not enough to make any paint” (1964 Time)……..
I am now even more disgusted with humanity than I already was, and I was already pissed about the people eating them and I’m just astonished that crushing dead peoples bodies for paint was seen as legal as of 1964, that’s less than 50 years ago
This is definitely some ignorant shit Demi partake in if they were alive back then 👀👀
🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮
I’m so disgusted
As someone who is getting a masters in museum studies, you've done a great job of discussing the provenance issue. Your understanding of the laws are actually very accurate (there's some particulars but not necessary for understanding the situation). Thank you for talking about this!
Also studying museum studies (called historical methods but it's for history majors who wanna work in museums or with historical items) and yeah it's pretty good for some who won't have learned it
@@basementdwellercosplay shout out to the museum studies gang! I completed my MLitt in Museum studies last year before moving on to my art history PhD. This entire situation with Demi is all insane to me
So glad I found more museum people in the comments. Finished up my bachelors and currently going for my masters in museum studies rn and I can’t count the number of times we had debates over the ethics of museums existing period (much less “encyclopedic museums” like the British Museum and the Louvre).
I really really really hope Demi doesn’t intentionally (or unintentionally) start a trend of people buying artifacts. It’s not illegal, but it sure as hell isn’t ethical (in my opinion), even if the provenance is spotless. If you’re feelings on museums are that they serve to protect and interpret history for the community, then please leave it to the professionals. If your feelings are that they should be abolished and all artifacts repatriated, I think there’s room for a constructive discussion. And if you feel like you fall in the middle and feel it’s a case-by-case basis, let’s grab a coffee and have a chat.
In any case, your video is super approachable to someone who may not have much knowledge on the subject and I can tell you really did your research, well done. I’m only wishing this happened last year so I could have brought it up in class, I would’ve loved everyone’s opinions. I’m sending this to them
It looks like I need to study for a whole new career.
@@kaleshabastion2332 many schools offer it as a minor as well!
This is the same reason I do not shop at Hobby Lobby. The owners of Hobby Lobby bought and hid ancient artifacts for a Bible museum. This is true and you can search it. It makes me so angry. I am a historian and history professor and it makes me angry when people but and bring artifacts that belong to other countries into the United States.
!!!!!!!!!
If someone really wants something inspired by an ancient society, you could buy normal products that aren’t trying to be archeological finds. You like the little statues found in egyptian tombs? Someone probably has made a vase or something inspired by it. You don’t need “the real thing” or what you think is the real thing
or a 3d scanned replica. those are quite lovely, can be sold with brochure explaining their context and promote the culture instead of harming it. because sometimes you might want something inspired and sometimes you might want a representation of actual history. one doesn't have to own the original to appreciate a replica. much like I don't have to own original paintings to appreciate prints of them hanging on my walls. you know?
@@Forgefaerie or clay recreations. There's so many artists who specialize in replica artifacts O.O
There are also replicas and recreations of artifacts, a person can have literally a brand new artifact that looks exactly like an original without the risks involved in owning an original artifact.
Or you can just buy from Egyptian artists- there are people in most cultures that still make the exact same items with nearly the same techniques as these "artifacts" and IMO, it would be SO much cooler to buy from someone who has been studying and preserving the art of their ancestors. win-win of NOT potentially destroying culture, AND you are supporting a creator who cares deeply about their craft.
Ethical high ground aside, another advantage to buying a replica made by craftsman today could be that you don't have to worry your fancy replica will have age-related damage (chipped areas, paint or enamel loss, missing stones, etc.) that might compromise it's overall structural integrity. By buying a beautiful replica rather than trying to buy a potentially limited, fragile artifact, you can be happy that you 1) supported a living, breathing artist's livelihood rather than potentially buying something that should rather be safely in a museum, and 2) now have an item that isn't likely to potentially crumble into expensive dust if you so much as breathe in it's general direction. It's a win-win all around!
Why does Demi KEEP doing crazier and crazier stuff?! And then putting it out there to show people in this masochistic cycle? Just- why. It's just not healthy. I went from being one of their biggest fans to absolutely done within the span of 2 years.
Because poor person fried their brain with fame and poor mental health i feel bad for her but its like a bad car crash its awful but you keep watching anyway
Their brush with death probably messed them up so much that focusing on themselves probably triggers mental breakdowns. Which is sad. They need professional help. So much for saying they weren’t going to change in the La La Land machine. They need more help than they realize. I truly don’t believe figuring out their pronouns, verbally assaulting a fro-yo shop on the internet, having a show about aliens, and buying fake artifacts helps them in any way whatsoever. Whoever their friends are aren’t real friends. Real friends know when to tell them the truth.
I think she’s bipolar or something, she have severe mental issues
@@InHerLittleWay I mean, they literally have brain damage from the OD - officially physical as blindness/ blind spots in vision but it's not certain if they can't also have mental damage that wasn't diagnosed yet. I've seen what heavy use can do to people, let alone ODing to the point one needs to be hospitalized. Paired with nearly death and everything else traumatic that happened during their life since childhood and you have this effect.
Ofc it's just speculating, but if it's certain the brain was damaged, question only is how much
Mental illness and self medication.
i'm an archaeology student, and i honestly gotta admit that private collections sounds egoistic to me, it's like, look how much money i have!! so many artefacts would rather benefit from being in a museum, where people could see them. not that all museums have obtained artifacts the right way *cough british musum cough*, but i would still say that it's the lesser of two evils if we first are to remove things!
I said pretty much the same thing in another comment thread on this video, it pisses me enough when rich people have private collections of any prolific/famous art and paintings from THIS century, let alone artefacts that are ancient cultures' . It blows my mind how dumb Demi can be
Ditto for Paleontology, vaguely knew a guy who had a collection of fossils from Mongolia and his own country, some which might have been one of a kind. (Hard to tell when you cant get legitimate professionals to look at them.)
Here's hoping they were expensive forgeries, but I fear that they might instead be lost data because someone had some money and wanted to show off.
@@indigophoenix12 THIS. I follow a few fossil hunting accounts on ig that find some amazing stuff, but are mistrustful of academics and all I can think about is the data lost of private collections.
As someone from SEA I just need the British museum to return OUR artifacts that they stole. We want them in our museums they are our culture. its unfair that they stole everything from us and display in their museums or are owned by their royal family.
This is just odd. Why can't these people just buy copies knowing they are copies.
Yes, you are right 💖 museums of countries in the global north are full of stolen things from the cultures of the global south.
I'm not saying it's 100% right, but one of the reasons these artifacts stay in british museums is because a lot of the countries they stole from are war torn and just not safe places for these extremely important pieces of history. You could definitley make the argument that the reason these countries are war torn in the first place is because of colonialism, and you'd usually be correct, however it doesn't negate the fact that these artificats need to be kept in a secure location and a lot of these countries just aren't secure.
@@alexbush714 Yeah but you can also ask yourself who is profiting from them right now? Who is charging entry fees for people to see these stolen pieces of history? Where is that money going?
@@alexbush714 if we REALLY cared about that then we wouldn’t be bombing the countries with that heritage and architecture. Unless we plan on transporting entire buildings to the British museum.
@@fierceANM True!
Anytime I see this it reminds me of back in the Victorian Era when wealthy people would buy and sometimes eat mummies. Also as an indigenous woman I personally find it very gross to take other people's historical and cultural items. Not a fan of people having more money than sense in cases like this. The certificate reminds me of the papers that come when you buy a build a bear 🤭
I think they genuinely think it’s like getting a build a bear… I’m African and every time I see things like this I just can’t seem to understand why white people feel the need to own cultural pieces that don’t concern them. It’s weird. Watching Demi do a haul of these artifacts genuinely triggered my fight or flight. 😪
@@sakiva I agree with you. It's nothing to do with their history but they want to colonize the items. It's not a good look. It's sad that they view such important things like expensive party favors
I'm sorry, WHAT.
EAT?
@@francinesmith7884 They wrongly believed it was medicinal...they also created paint with mummy remains
another indigenous lady here, people always use our culture as halloween costumes and or take our history and culture. it makes me so upset and i wish we could do something about it
i literally just don’t understand the desire to own antiquities from a culture you have no connection to? like i was super interested in ancient egypt when i was younger & i would’ve found it so cool to be able to see/interact with egyptian antiquities irl, but even then i knew that i had no claim over them just bc i liked them. it’s a very imperialist mindset & it’s wild to me, like that’s a piece of human history & it’s incredibly likely that there are descendants of the people who originally made/owned those items who would be thrilled to be connected to them so why would u want to rob them of that?
exactly💔
And the culture they originate from would also be able to contextualize them and create extremely interesting exhibits using lots of their own artifacts. The passion, respect, and love that the culture could show through the exhibition of their history is unbeatable, the meaning would be more real and true to form.
Yeah, and if you are really interested in a culture you can buy decor or books or general stuff that isn't a literal artefact of great importance to said culture?
@@emilyfletcher7124 exactly, like buying a replica isn't a bad thing and especially if museums sold replicas online to raise funds from a global audience, it could help museums operate in areas with smaller tourism industries
In this case though, no one is closely tied to the ancient Egyptian culture. It’s more about preserving and learning about the extinct culture.
I work at a small public museum in the US and there's a few nearby sites that we don't name on our public-facing object labels because we're concerned about people going to dig there and looting objects.
Pretty common, in a certain section of florida, there are a couple of sites off hiking trails that are simply not mentioned by anyone who knows and cares.
Hi Amanda, as an Egyptian living here in Cairo I'd like to add that this is a big topic of conversation we have over here.
From my perspective the desire to own ancient Egyptian artifacts is just a form of modern day colonialism. You have no right to steal/buy items not from your culture. That's only a small version of of what many countries have stolen from Egypt over the years. Are every major European city has its own obelisk. And the US has several giant parts of temples, and no one bats an eye
You're wrong. It doesn't matter if you're not from that culture. You shouldn't own artifacts period. They don't belong to someone's private collection because they are cultural heritage and should be appreciated by anyone. That's why I think they should be reserved to a museum. Because most people anyway don't care about their history; they simply aren't interested. But maybe, someone from another country actually studying that stuff might be more interested and actually know more about it than said people. But it's just not fair that anyone could be able to buy historical artifacts.
Celebs getting scammed sometimes feels like it could be some kind of tax dodge.
Well, the show didn't do so well even after the singing to a ghost to let them pass into the other side saga blew up so uh...could be?
@@lemonnomel9416 the WHAT
i mean it definitely seems to me like the ones demi bought were fake but yeah they should absolutely NOT be promoting any of this nonsense. i get being really into ancient history like i read percy jackson i was obsessed with ancient greece for like 2 years but i think it's really easy to stick to the just doing a lot of research and watching a lot of documentaries and going to museums. like museums definitely have their own set of issues but this is just adding a bunch of new issues and solving 0 of the ones that already exist
And if you really want an artifact, just buy a replica, if it's made properly chances are it is almost indistinguishable by looking at ot.
Reminds me of that TikToker with a room full of human spines.
Edit: Oh. There's a Swell Entertainment video on it. I'm gonna watch it later.
If I had the money to do stuff like this I'd buy so much ceramic art from small artists... you could commission different artists to do murals on every wall of every room of your house...
If I ever have enough money to own a house, I’d love to have my ceiling painted based on Roman/Greek inspiration
I always wanted a room with floor tiles of a scene from the cretaceuous, and a series of four chinese seasonal paintings where each season also represented a different era of the mesozoic (the last would be winter and there would be birds and a few of the surviving reptiles near the bottom)
This! I already try to support “small” artists as much as I can, it’d be so cool to commission some to make all the things and do all the designs like I was a wealthy patron of the arts from days gone by😅😁☺️
I had a prof who was slowly replacing all her dish ware with ceramics she made herself and it was so cool!
You're right that I'm not in a place to buy antiquities, but even if I could, what would I do with it? I like antiques but we're really tapping out at 1890 here there isn't a problem owning Victorian stuff there is a problem in buying cultures. Also buying something that was supposed to be in a tomb sounds like a good way to get cursed and have you deserve it.
There's a podcast Art Fraud (correction: Art Bust - I got confused by the 2 podcasts' names 😅) that did an episode on the "death objects". The long and the short is that for many cultures having their death practices paraded by the Western museums as "weird" & "just another cultural artifact" is basically insensitive to their beliefs and cultures. The "curse" thing is a racist 20th/19th century yellow press invention & the overt exoticization of Egyptian beliefs & culture.
@@neliaaa interesting I'll have to look into that! And the curse thing is definitely a good point
@@Kayla_P99 I would definitely recommend it!!
@@neliaaa I thought the curse thing was just because of the traps they put in to prevent grave robbers/archeologists.
@@notapplicable6985 it was a very rare occurrence (almost never found @ archeologists) take for instance the most famous discovery (King Tut), the myth was created after people died from unrelated diseases/reasons afterwards. People in the West only view Egypt as a land of curses & booby traps (therefore reducing them to an exotic Other). Grave robbing happend as soon as the pharaoh were laid to rest. If people knew that there were tombs full of jewels, they took it. Mummies were eaten by Europeans as medicine. So the idea of booby traps & curses is a Hollywood invention that people think is a real thing. Curses would've probably been a warning that you won't enjoy an afterlife. "Booby traps" were also not a thing, in the pyramids (older kingdom) they built extensive passage ways to confuse robbers, but it never worked.
as someone from the west asia/north african region i think it's very unethical for anyone except us to own our artifacts tbh. it's playing into colonization, taking our history from us and forcing us to pay money to even see it. even white people coming to dig up our history is questionable territory for me because they rarely treat us with any respect. i love your compassion on these topics
This does raise the question though of…..what if someone wants to sell their artifacts?
I just wanna really emphasize your point that you CAN'T just drop something off at a museum that you think should be there.
Legitimate institutions can not legally go through the process to make an acquisition of an item when there isn't a formal, documented transfer of ownership to the institution.
I've been interning at an anthropology museum and we always get people trying to drop things off at the front desks or receiving dock, and people also just literally leave stuff at the front doors at night when the museum is closed.
When this happens the museum can't legally accept the donation and put it in collections.
We are a teaching institution so most of the teaching collection is made up of these types of objects since the museum can't legally add them to the collections, which means potentially it's just going to be destroyed for conservation students to repair.
If collections staff think it might be of significant cultural value they just kind of stay in collections purgatory though because the museum can't actually legally do anything with it.
During my internship a curator gave me a basket that was left at the museum in this way, and while I appreciate it because it's from my culture, and can tell it's a more recent basket done for the tourist market in the 20th century and therefore probably sold legally from the artist themselves.....it still just feels ODD.
this has been my experience, too! while I worked at the (very large) museum in my city, we'd have people calling in at least once a week to offer us stuff they simply had in their home. 99% of time we refused just taking random items from strangers. provenance is a big deal.
considering my museum only displays probably a fifth of the items they actually have (overwhelming majority is kept in storage for protection), the idea that a legitimate "museum" would have "surplus" that they can just..... GIVE out to people is hilarious to me
@@kkuudandere FR 😭 I checked their website too and they advertise that they're like a market that museums regularly buy from and trust me almost no museums are looking to buy authentic antiquities just cuz, let alone dubious fakes.
My museum did a big overhaul/renewal in 2010 and despite being a small-ish museum(I think were around 7k sq with a large portion being taken up by oversize objects like totem poles) and have I think at least 20k objects in visible storage for the public and its STILL mostly in the back and despite getting a shit ton of new storage in 2010 were already running out of space bc of the overwhelming amount of donations.
One of their recent acquisitions had like, 3000 goat horn spoons in a single lot 😭.
The movement to push for repatriation is the right one but also overwhelming at times lol.
This is the first I've heard about Demi Lovato buying antiquities but I had heard about a different example of some biblical literalists (I think they had some connection to Hobby Lobby or something) building a bible museum and buying looted artifacts.
I think I saw that hobby lobby thing on a list of controversies about the store
It's the family that owns Hobby Lobby.
As others have pointed out, that would be the owner of Hobby Lobby himself. He built a museum, filled with ‘biblical artifacts’ & particularly focused on Dead Sea scrolls, only for most of them to be fakes or looted. Wild stuff tbh
@@amelia3146 yeah it's crazy lol, i read a few articles when I heard about it and turns out the owners of hobby lobby may have accidentally funded ISIS by buying smuggled and looted artifacts from 'sellers' that were tied to them 😬 luckily the stuff was returned to the nation, but big yikes
Check out Fundie Fridays video on Hobby Lobby it's really informative on how bad they actually are
The MOMENT my poor ass heard 'Museum Surplus' I thought 'Suuuuuuuuuure, THAT sounds SUPER legit....'
That's why I always shop at Museum factory outlet!
@@indigophoenix12 Mention my name and Tony will give you 10% off! ;)
@@indigophoenix12 They’ve got great BOGOs right now for Black Friday!
*Few months back:* Demi Lovato makes a big deal out of sugar free froyo "because it's fatphobic" + "aliens is offensive so now I say ET"
*Now:* pulls sh!t like colonialist comportment 101 on their IG story. Feels like a Buzzfeed skit: "what if Indiana Jones had Instagram" 🤷🏻♀️🤷🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️
FYI: UNESCO is an acronym pronounced as a single word, like _U • ness (=Loch Ness) • co_
Now I’m just imagining Demi complaining about sugar free froyo while hosting a mummy unwrapping party
There was this mummy sarcophagus (with a real mummy in it) supposedly belonging to a Persian Princess that was eventually proved to be false, and the body it contained has been too far mangled to positively identify her or the cause of death. Theres also some question about whether she was murdered by the criminal forgers. Illegal artifacts have undoubtedly killed people, and mutilated remains of the underprivileged or forgotten.
(Edit: she was apparently hit by a car.)
There was a mummy put on Dispaly in Mammoth Cave Kentucky which was said to be a young girl who crawled into the cave and died after a carriage accident. Turned out it was a 5,000 year old indigenous boy. People have a hard time keeping their mummy stories straight.
Its a bit hypocritical that they're the one collecting this stuff seeing how they're always running their mouth about civil rights and stuff like that.
I'm doing an art history masters in Provenance rn and it's so interesting to hear someone outside of the sector discussing this!! You handled it really well and discussed all the major ethics discussion as well. Maybe there's an Art Crime professorship in you yet ;)
I am an Egyptologist, so I a subject matter expert in this field. Private ownership of Egyptian antiquities is a thing. As long those antiquities were legally exported from Egypt prior to the UN World Heritage Convention of 1972, it can be legal to own said antiquities. But private ownership is controversial in some circles. And some have argued that private ownership has encouraged looting and the production of forgeries. There are lot of legitimate antiquities that are on the market and can be purchased from auction houses. But there is nothing wrong with buying a copy knowing it is copy, and the Egyptian Ministry of Tourism and Antiquities is preparing to offer high quality copies for private purchase. I would encourage Demi to talk to real Egyptologists and learn about what she's interest in. Most of us are quite approachable. 😄
My professor in college was an Egyptologist, Robert Schoch - he was amazing and fascinating to talk to
@@allisontamayo9048 Schoch is a geophysicist, not an Egyptologist. However, I have no doubt that he was fascinating to talk to. 😁
@@ancientegyptandthebible He referred to himself as an Egyptologist in class - that's where I learned the word haha
I never felt the need to acquire ancient antiquities, but I have heard about cuneiform practice on clay. Making cuneiform gingerbread would probably be really fun!
Omg I love that idea!! How cool!!
Edit: i didn’t realize this was part of the video 🤦♀️
We had an extra credit assignment in 6th grade to make our own cuneiform tablets and we all had so much fun with it!
I got my degree in History, and spent at least a day or two in every ancient history class I took talking about the ethics of artifact collecting. There are some horrendous examples, like the Athenian Marbles being kept in the British Museum for "safety reasons" despite Athens building an entire museum specifically to safely house them. But then theres good examples, like bordering nations in war-torn countries taking artifacts away to be safe from bombs and other hazards of war.
However, one person having artifacts has always struck me as immoral. That being said, these are probably fake. And if they're not, they were likely deemed so historically insignificant that they were sold to highest bidder.
I don't study ancient societies(I study the rococo era) but the idea that Demi would just casually buy what they believed was a real ancient items is absolutely wild like how is that allowed
As an Anthropology student (Archaeology is a sect hello my artifact loving brethren how are you) this whole situation is ✨vomit inducing.✨ It's like the whole thing with people keeping Clovis Points or owning valuable sites. Can't wait to show this to my Arch prof though to hear him shriek in terror at least lmao.
Also hello fellow Linguistic and Cultural Anthropology people.
Sometimes the vomit is induced from within the house. My dad helped excavate an early archeology site with his proffessor, a burial with a woman who had a ceramonial point in her sternum. However that archeologist had a fued with the university, and when they fired him, she, and all of the paperwork about her dissapeared. (this might have been because the university museum was looking to return most of their collection- dad doesnt know, it was thirty years past his graduation when someone called him to ask if he had any information about what happened her. The best he had was a copy of the old paper, which the student calling him already had.
The brain fog and memory loss from COVID is no joke. I had very mild COVID back in December 2020 and I still have memory issues.
re: the Peter Campbell tweet, I’ve heard it pronounced as “dash” or “die-esh.” It’s just another term for ISIS, one that is much more popular in the UK than the States. I don’t know shit about archaeology , but I’ve heard that ISIS does a lot of illegal artifact trafficking. One of their big clients was the Bible museum run by the Hobby Lobby people
"Daesh" (the spelling I've seen most often) is the Arabic term for ISIS. The way it was explained to me, it's like how in Futurama the Democratic Order Of Planets has the less-than-regal sounding acronym "doop." It was a way for Arabic-speakers to disparage the movement that had the nerve to call itself "THE Islamic State," and got adopted by a number of English speakers as well.
11:31 My brain created a whole narrative of “dinosaur schools” being the correct term for a complete skeleton of a dinosaur until I realized it was supposed to say skulls
I was in an oddities shop the other day and they had a German helmet on sale. It was advertised of still having the dead nazi's blood in it after a fatal blow from a soviet.
Didn't sit well with me. Who would want to own that? Who could feel right with that in their homes?
I would
I'm an archaeologist who was litterally talking about the illegal traffiking of artifacts by rich people in America today I have never felt so called out by notification in my life girl I clicked SO FAST
girl no you are not😭
@@josieerin505 💀
@@josieerin505 And 49 others that clicked so I guess at least 50 archeologists! I’m sure they’re all real too.
My villain origin story is thinking Killmonger was right but went the wrong way about it. Definitely shouldn't have killed those people in the museum, but made some valid fucking points.
At least Demi probably did this out of stupidity. It's the Hobby Lobby level of intentional theft that is really concerning. But what can we expect from Hobby Lobby?
Something you should look into I just found out about is Faithful Minis and Peabody the horse.
This clip went viral on tiktok and instagram of a miniature horse that was so small that it was about the same size as the family's french bulldog. But people noticed that he didn't look healthy and his cage looked extremely dirty, with piles of soiled pee pads.
It turns out that Peabody was not only a miniature horse, but also had dwarfism. It's unclear whether he was specifically bred for dwarfism (to get yet smaller horses), or if it was the result of inbreeding. Either way, it left him with a lot of health problems. He was born deaf, with two bad legs, and a messed up jaw that prevented him from eating. He died after only four months (allegedly) from liver failure.
The owners (Faithful Minis) claim they bought him at 3 days old. From where is not specified. Why they bought him, when they themselves are miniature horse breeders, is also not clear. It's possible, since he's the smallest recorded miniature horse, that they were intending to use him to breed minis with dwarfism.
This is all I know. But it's really sad because the owners were being invited to do all this press, like be on the Kelly Clarkson show, when it seems like they're really shady backyard breeders, that don't care at all about the health of the animals they breed, as long as they look cute for four months so they can make a sale.
Oh my god it should be illegal. I don’t even think teacup dogs or cats with dwarfism should be bred. The dogs always have health problems and their bones break very easily. I can’t imagine how many pups were killed that didn’t turn out right. Cats with legs so short some tummies hit the ground can’t jump like a regular cat and that’s one of their joys! To be on top of things looking down watching everything! Of course they look cute but genetically messing with animals should be illegal when it is strictly for our enjoyment and makes like tougher for them.
I totally agree that artifacts should stay where they are but even if Demi didn't want to visit Egypt (where they have incredible museums and tours) it is very well known that the British museum, the Museum of Fine Arts in Boston, the Met, and many others already have extensive collections of Egyptian art and artifacts. I'm sure someone as rich as them could afford a high quality, ethically made replica or print of an artifact if seeing thousands of them in museums isn't enough.
"Egyptology" was very popular throughout history and until the 1920s there was little to no standard for recording the archeological process or for the security of dig sites. It's basic knowledge that European and American archeologists just took whatever during the day and locals looted the sites at night. Nowadays those artifacts are mostly in museums and any documented or newly uncovered artifacts are *very* strictly regulated. Looting definitely still happens but it's much easier for someone to create new fake artifacts than risk the repercussions of looting a dig site or museum. The name "museum surplus" alone tells you how little Demi understands the topic because museums literally collect more than is possible to display due to ongoing preservation, changing exhibits, etc lol
you can also buy cool enough replicas from Egypt. even if you arent fooled by such proffessional websites as Museum Surplus, modern and ethical replicas still can be pretty cool.
Are those new glasses? They're so round you look like an academic! 🙆♀️
That eyeshadow is also soo on point! 👀
Yeah!! It makes her look very professional! Professor Swell
I am by no means a historian, art crime professor, or even a person with expertise in my own job field, but as someone who makes Props and is working on a show that requires a ton of distressing, Lovato's stuff looks distressed in a similar way to how I did it (also if you are distressing something lowkey a belt sander doesn't seem like the way to go in my experience)
I have a weirdly close perspective on this. I sell high end designer mid century and Danish modern furniture from the 50s-70s (based in NYC) and because of this I have a close relationship with a lot of affluent auction houses, antique dealers, resellers etc. You run into these ill-gotten antiquities waaayyy more often than you’d think. I steer clear of any of that as I am a huge proponent of making sure historical objects stay in their country of origin (if possible) and are not sold for profit.
You wouldn’t believe some of the stuff that comes up in auction houses (who are suppose to vet items and make sure they weren’t trafficked/fakes/come from war torn areas were looting is common). It’s often considered that items sold at trusted auction houses get a bolstered reputation and validate some of the authenticity of the object seemly by being sold there. These places are willing to stake their highly coveted reputations on these questionable antiquities because there absolutely is a market of private individuals ready and willing to purchase. Everything from Egyptian artifacts to human remains to slave trade items to dinosaurs bones. It’s absolutely sickening but it’s the worst kept secret of the affluent that these pieces are not that hard to obtain. If Demi had a money manager, knowledge assistant, art procurer or simply knew the actual market better/asked around, this is where they would have gone.
It’s the same with high end antique stores that seem to think just because a piece is old that it somehow erases any human suffering (old or new) attached to that item. I’ve seen some truly bizarre objects in antique stores in the US but European antique stores take the cake on ethical issues.
At the end of the day, the practice of selling and coveting these antiquities, by western audiences, from a culture and place you were not a part of is simply another form of colonialism and imperialism.
"I'm just a chick on the internet with a camera" is definitely an understatement girl! Love your videos ❤ found you cause of the Jon's bones situation and somehow found the video very entertaining and funny, given the subject matter. I honestly had different views on ownership of these types of things, and even the Jon's bones situation, until listening to you explain how this is maybe not the respectful nor ethical. Keep up the hard work, it shows in your videos. ❤
Oh, demi...I can't believe anyone would keep going online just to look like a total idiot. It's really hard to watch.
Just putting it out there that I would love to see a video along the lines of you baking gingerbread (or dog friendly) cuneiform tablets while interviewing a professor of art crimes.
How to make cuneiform gingerbread cookies:
1. Learn Ugaritic cuneiform, since it is mostly alphabetic and is easier than Akkadian or Hittite cuneiform.
2. Carve a triangular stylus out of a chopstick. You might want to practice your cuneiform technique on a piece of modelling clay.
3. Whip up a batch of gingerbread. Make sure it's the eating kind of gingerbread, not the gingerbread house kind of gingerbread, otherwise you will break people's teeth.
4. Form your cookies into small loaf-like squares.
5. Write your cuneiform message on each cookie and bake in an oven until done.
😭😭😭 they could have just commissioned an artist (like a sculptor) for a good replica without worrying about the possibility of stolen goods and proudly admit the fact. They could get museum souvenirs, plenty of them sell items like prints or goods with the image on it without it being tacky. Or better yet you want authentic goods then support the community its from, like visiting indigenous museums & shops or the equivalent of it. Support the culture, not steal it.
Demi has so many issues they’re buying stolen/fake artifacts to ignore the fact they need help.
Get a life Karen you can't copy DEMI I THINK YOU NEED HELP TO MAKE YOUR SKIN CLEAR AND FRESH AF AND IN ABSOLUTE HUMOR COMFORT AND RICH LIKE DEMI
I find a good way to not switch up "provenance" with "providence" is to really lean into the Frenchness of the word. "Prah-vaughn-AHNCE". It's easy to mix them up but I've found that's a good trick to get past it, at least for me.
Honestly Demi is the worst. When they freaked out at an ice cream shop about sugar free ice cream? You know, for diabetics? Cringe.
Yeah that, the Alien show on Peacock, I love their music but a lot of cringe and dumb actions
What did they have against sugar free ice cream??
@@AM-kr4pv they thought it was fat phobic 🙄
I definitely do not have Demi Lovato money but once again that has saved me from being this dumb with money. I literally just can't afford to be this dumb with money.
I'm not good at Photoshop but even I could forge better paperwork than that. Not even getting into the issue with buying the artefacts of another culture and keeping it to yourself. At the very least loan it to someone who will put it on public display or keeps it safe and can do research with it.
That happened in my city with a bunch of very expensive old books a private person bought them and then gave them for free as a permanent loan to the university library so people can look at them and learn how to conserve them too because my local university offers that course as well.
Pretty sure they've been at the library for two decades or longer now and apparently the private owner has put it in writing that once they pass it permanently goes to the library.
This weirdly reminded me of "haunted dolls" and other artifacts on eBay... Check it out, it's a weird "harmless" rabbit hole
Oh my god they’re also on Mercari and depop! I was introduced to the rabbit hole from the MBMBAM podcast, and it’s so funny to see how people try to authenticate haunted dolls
@@cl5uo beepadeepdeeepdeepbeepbeepbeep
I love them, it's how we got the *"haunted x doll that drinks all your pepsi and calls you a bitch"* meme
@@IHate4Kids wait I don’t think I’ve seen that I need it in my life
Those, at least dont rob a culture of part of their history so some rich douche can swing around their 'importance.'
Its up to you to decide if buying a haunted doll is believable ethical :)
When you said Nicholas Cage, I was immediately ready to hear that he stole the Declaration of Independence.
Rich people: I wanna own an actual piece of history, no matter how immoral.
Me: Those little resin dinosaur skull replicas are super neat.
I have family in the Chinese antiques market, and oh boy let me say that it’s something all right. Interesting to see how pieces of history are treated around the world by different types of people.
I knew people in China who worked to create antiques. How adept is their verification process?
@@indigophoenix12 for professionals? Very, though it takes a long time even with so much high tech machinery to detect between reals and fakes. The whole tomb raiding business and the fact that China keeps losing antiques to contractors makes antiques highly sought, so everyone in the business of legally trading them have verification step after verification step.
Artifacts look like they earned a spot on the middle school honor roll, based on those certs.
I'm proud of that clay tablet for graduating middle school, top of its class. It's amazing because it's probably less than a year old!
@@antiarmadillosociety lmaoo what a prodigy
I haven't started the video but from first min I can tell I'll hate Demi even more. Egypt & it's history was and are still threatened today by looting & "archeologists" (Western grave robbers) picking and choosing the cultural & religious artifacts that they'll take to America, UK, EU etc. It actually makes me sick. There's museums in America that's willing to show dubious artifacts (possibly stolen before UN convention came in place) & they're UNWILLING to work with the respective African countries to possibly give their history back. (Obvs England & EU etc also)
I'm a big history nerd & always had a soft spot for Egyptian history (being from Africa myself, it felt more "real" than Ancient Rome or Ancient Greece), & I would love to view their historical artifacts IN EGYPT. Hoarding it in another continent really leave a bitter taste in my mouth, because who's suppose to be the audience? White Europeans/Americans? To other and objectify another culture & their history?
So "keeping it in museums" is not the answer. If the museums is in Egypt or Africa, yes, because it's THEIR history. And having this artifacts be owned by rich people - definitely no. They're the reason you see artifacts in museums -they loan it to them (and are unwilling to give it back to the countries of origin). So private individuals making choices about historical artifacts and who has access to it or not, also screams white saviourism & Western dominance to me.
Those who own history can change it. The Hobby Lobby people bought illegal documents from IS*S, but one of the documents were a long lost fragment of Sappho, that are lost to academia and further research. A lot of "lost pieces" are also documents that were hoarded by rich families & therefore academics can't access it.
This really reminds of the time when Hobby Lobby bought looted And stolen artifacts for their bible museum. It's all I can think of
But when another museum buys and showcases them, that isn't theft? I'm confused about when it's theft, and when it's ok. Probably depends on whether the "right people" are profiting.
@@chance2413 still theft and looting. The key aspect would be to revise provenance and date of arrival to the collection to figure out how and where they were taken from. Additionally, museum exhibitions are compelled to work on the future preservation of the artifact or object, which is not a guarantee either. The problem with Hobby Lobby is that not only did they engage in contemporary massive illegal purchasing, their illegal activities support groups that are terrorizing and destroying cultural heritage in the Middle East without enough sanctions from the US government who is supposed to oversee their activities. However, let me really emphasize that no museum collection has a clean, legally acquired record of ownership, unless it’s a site museum with confirmed collaborative practices and community involvement (which are extremely rare)
@@ameliatorres6162 Thank you, thank you, thank you for your last comment about how no museum is squeaky clean. The amount of shit I’ve gotten from people about working in places with stolen artifacts like I did it myself when nobody was looking is insane. Museums originated out of “cabinets of curiosities” in the homes of wealthy nobles and were filled with random objects they gathered on travels. There was no paperwork, no trail of information, and nobody really keeping track of where things came from over the generations. We can’t change the past of how objects ended up where they did. The only thing we can do now is put protocols in place to protect museums from taking in objects of ill background. Does that still happen? Yes, of course, hobby lobby was correctly brought up. It’s the fact that this happened in modern day (and to the degree that it did) that was heinous of them
I feel like its kind of different bc Hobby Lobby bought them from ISIS which violates US sanctions. Not saying that what Demi Lovato did is good or anything, but people seem to gloss over details and apply a one sized fits all mindset about any story thats remotely similar.
Like, the knowing cooperation with terrorists was the big thing. Not necessarily a botched providence
Im an undergrad in anthropology, specifically with a concentration in archeology and this topic gives me oh so may thoughts. The process of rich people buying cultural artifacts for personal collections is by no means a new idea and is generally how the practice of archeology started, as rich white men gatherered cabinets of curiosities full of stolen or fake artifacts and created a market for them and created public interest by showing them to the public.
"The baby didn't like the skeleton, so they were trying to get rid of it."
I don't blame them. Babies are a dime a dozen.
There is always someone who is dumb with spending money, therefore there is always someone else who wants to separate that fool from their money by any means.
hey, you may never read this but i’ve been having a really hard time recently, and your content has been a good comfort during this rough patch. just got out of a friendship that in hindsight was very emotionally abusive but for a long while it was extremely difficult to let go of because they were my only friend…. looking back it was because they kept arguing with all of my other friends even starting fights just to call them names. but now that i’m away from them and on my own, i find a huge comfort and company in your videos that i didn’t feel in calls with them. just thank you for creating the content that you do. the casual nature and lighthearted tone is contagious and has really lifted my mood. thanks :)
I have my masters in museum studies and am currently getting my PhD in art history and I can say this: if buying something like this seems too good to be true, it.
A lot of ancient artifacts were looted/stolen/lost during the Arab spring and if what Demi us purchased isn’t a part of that, it it is almost certainly a fake.
When it comes to the issues regarding provenance and the theft and resale of these items, think about this: the Metropolitan Museum of Art, the literally MET, one of the most prestigious and well respected art museums in the world bought a golden sarcophagus. They made it a center piece of a new display room and spent millions. Then they found out that it was stolen during the Arab spring and sold on the black market and eventually sold to the met with fake provenance. They wound up having to return it to Egypt and were just out millions of dollars. If someone could trick the met, they could definitely trick Demi Lovato, a hobbyist who apparently can’t even differentiate ancient Assyrian artifacts from ancient Egyptian ones (even though it’s LITERALLY a cuneiform tablet and not one in any form of hieroglyphic text or even heiratic or Greek….)
Here’s the thing, I collect antiques and artifacts myself, particularly ones related to my field of study. I research medieval depictions of Saint Catherine of Alexandria and own prints of works of her but also things like 18th century embroideries of her and even a 17th century rock crystal reliquary pendant. So I very much understand the impulse and the desire to purchase these kinds of items. There is a powerful feeling of connection that comes with owning artifacts like this yourself and being able to touch, hold, or even wear them.
To me at least, something about that feels very precious. The difference is that I always do my homework on these objects so that I am not getting screwed or screwing someone else AND so that I give these pieces the proper respect, care, and thoughtfulness that they deserve.
There's a museum in Greece where the displays have spaces for the pieces in the British museum. Hobby Lobby was involved with illegal artifact trade that almost definitely funded a terrorist group but definitely destroyed a cultural site that would have been important for archaeology
I will never ever get tired of your intro.
Art history student here. We're talking about the fake/stolen artifacts issue a lot and I actually just had a Due-Diligence course. It's such a huge discussion, but you explained everything really well.
I'm so glad I found this channel!!
All the creators are talking about how nfts are fungible because online scarity isn't real while Amanda is explaining why forgeries mean collectible scarity and manufactured scarity aren't real either. Amanda said how many layers deep are you? lol
There are some fantastic museum replicas you can buy - just as beautiful as the originals, but much more affordable and you don't have to worry about the ethical concerns.
I bought some great ones from the Roemisch Germanisches museum when I visited Cologne in Germany years ago. I have a beautiful necklace based on one found in a riverbank, and I love it so much. I'm not sure that I'd feel ok with buying genuine artifacts, particularly from the likes of Egypt considering most of them are funerary decorations.
Loved the video! I just graduated with a masters in Library and Information Science which is essentially archival work. Everything you said was accurate. You'd be surprised how many fakes are floating around! If you want an absolutely wild rabbit hole you should look up the family who owns hobby lobby. They're notorious for smuggling artifacts into the US and purchasing dubious items for their museum of the bible. I did a research paper on them and it was WILD.
This topic was super interesting 👍🏽 Thanks Amanda
While opening UA-cam, I thought “oh I’ll continue watching the videos I was watching yesterday” and then saw your and had to watch this first, hearing your intro, I was like “omg same” so now I gotta stick around for the end!! I was a longtime fan of Demi and the last big thing I remember was the confidence uprising. No clue what’s been going on the past couple years so anything Demi, I have to watch to be up-to-date.
Society: "what do you do with an associates in english?"
Swell: "hold my beer"
As a student of archaeology and hopefully a future archaeologist with a PhD, this is SO INFURIATING!
The literal FIRST thing we we're taught is: This is not Indiana Jones type deal, if you came here inspired by him, rethink your choice of studying in this field.
Archaeology IS NOT grave robbing. It was in the past, yes (think Wooley and the Royal Tomb of Ur excavation, an utter disgrace), but times have changed. Archaeologists do not just come, dig up stuff, put it in bags and leave the site. They do it methodologically, carefully, and with no intention of destroying / making profit of the site or its artifacts. We look for historic value in things, not monetary value!
To think that there are people who sell artifacts online with the caption "gotten ethically from sites" or "gotten legally"..... No. There is NOTHING legal about selling artifacts that were STOLEN from sites. NONE of these were gotten via archaeological excavations or investigations, trust me on that. No archaeologist in his right mind would do this, unlike these bastards whose actions throw dirt on the field of science that archaeology is. The artifacts were dug up illegally and gathered for sale.
And especially from sites in Egypt or Middle East, since there is SO much yet to uncover and it is all well preserved in the dry climate.
I am personally against anyone owning artifacts from sites, no matter how "legal" it might be. Copies, sure, but the real ones are reserved for museums in their countries of origin. To end off, thank you @Swell Entertainment for addressing this issue, as it is a big one.
a few weeks back there were reports of a few tv shows having their replicas stolen. like, the crown, which has replicas of the royal family's jewels and such, had a bunch of those things stolen. and the first thing that came to mind seeing those news was that people were gonna try and sell those and pretend they're the real deal
I mean, if you're talking the british crown, I root for the theives, turn about is fair play after all... unless the british museum wants to start returning things and the royal family is willing to invest in artifact repatriation and helping pay to preserve those objects in their rightful homes.
Praise to the algorithm for your channel recommendation. Lovely work. Quite the psychic as well, I don’t have Demi Lovato money.
I wanna make cuneiform gingerbread cookies with you🥺 also I’m convinced Demi must’ve both those high. That website looks so sketch
As a pastry chef who helped make an ancient Egyptian themed gingerbread scene for a local museum’s King Tut exhibit, I say yes to cuneiform tablet cookies! Let’s do it!!
10:07 Amanda not knowing how to say UNESCO was so funny dor some reason lmao
I didn't know that Demi Lovato was the British museum
Wow! This is my first time watching you and I absolutely love your energy. You are so clever.
@swell entertainment: as much as i'm not a fan of logan paul, the pokimon that he bought was 'sealed boxes' and he did have someone verify that they were authentic....as best as you can authenticate 'sealed' packages. as you may or may not know, 'sealed' collectables are worth much more than 'unsealed'. he didn't just spend all that money willy nilly.
@@gsesquire3441 and then on top of that, didn’t inform his fans he got his money back, UNTIL AFTER he got that Ad money; and of course his fans buying his merch to “reimburse” his “losses”. Even though he already got the refund. 🤦🏽♀️😂
me, buying an ancient artifact: why is there still eyeliner on my hand?
It’s just funny how little research people do. If you have any kind of a platform, you have an obligation to use it for good. When I first saw this pop up on Twitter, I immediately thought about the ethical dilemma. The idea that the name “Museum Surplus” implies, that there are just extra artifacts we don’t need and are selling for a few hundred bucks, is absolutely absurd.
I haven’t been receiving notifications for your upload so I have a ton of videos to watch! Turns out I subscribed but didn’t turn on notifications! Thank you so much as always for bringing us quality contents, I love your channel so much!
The saddest thing to me is that these people could probably sell the fakes for the same amount if they just said they were artistic replicas or something like that. Like obviously some skill has to go in to creating fake artefacts and its like they are choosing to use that skill for evil
Another fine example of how money can't buy taste or cultural respect.
Idk why I didn’t get a notification for this? Thankfully I don’t trust UA-cam and I check my fave channels regularly lol
It kills me! They have enough money to buy ethically and they knew it was important because they made a big deal out of that Microsoft paint certificate.
As a Geology and Archaeology student this is very worrying especially if they are stolen. It’s also a very interesting time for her to post that as Project Pandora V is still gaining arrests for the illegal selling of artifacts worldwide.
Once artifacts are taken from the site incorrectly it’s pretty much impossible to gain anything from them as they are stripped of all context.
I do think they these ones are fake but I’m not an expert in this field of archaeology.
"You don't have demi lavato money"
My bank account: 👁👄👁 $9.34
Now go look into the family that runs Hobby Lobby -- they have enough illegal artifacts that they literally made a museum for them
Wild. Absolutely wild. Why on earth would they just pop online to buy ancient Egyptian artefacts🤦🏻♀️
The idea of buying cultural objects stolen from a country just to prove my wealth (not even my passion or knowledge.. which doesn't make it right) purely disgusts me. I used to love Demi but nowadays I don't know who she is anymore